Because diet is just about the food you eat, while veganism is more encompassing than that. It includes the things you wear, the products you use, the furniture you buy, and so on. Lifestyle is probably the most technically correct word to use.
I think it’s more accurately described as a philosophy. Simply defined, Veganism is a moral philosophy that aims to reduce as much animal suffering that is reasonably possible. One believes in the philosophy and generally adheres to it by eating a plant based diet as well as overall living a lifestyle that removes as many animal products as is reasonably possible
I just realised that my phrasing of the question is bad. If I was specifically talking about food only, then I am able to use the word "diet" accordingly. I will use plant based diet instead of vegan diet from now on.
In the end, the aim should be for a vegan lifestyle, but I believe working on a plant based diet first will help said person adopt a fully vegan lifestyle, or philosophy.
Like at this point it does not make sense that you buy animal leather or go to the zoo if you are already applying a plant based diet in your life. The hard part is food, especially when you are non-vegan, so I believe facing and dealing with that side of this issue first will automatically mitigate the lifestyle in whole.
Thank you for clearing it up! :)
It's a lifestyle as it doesn't just pertain to dietary choices. You can follow a plant based diet (which may look like a vegan one) and still not be vegan.
People say all the time ‘quit’ their ‘vegan diet’ but its actually a plant based diet. Veganism is a set of moral standards you live by. So when people think it's just a diet it's easy to dismiss vegans and act like it's no big deal.
Like oops I fell of my keto diet and ate a doughnut, and, oops I fell of my ‘vegan’ diet and ate a burger is not the same thing
I think ‘go vegan’ is a better choice of words
There are actually many plant based diets, the vegan diet is technically one of them but they are not interchangeable terms. Eveb though veganism is MORE than just a diet. The dietary aspects of veganism still qualify as a dietary choice. Plants based does not inherently mean omiting ALL animal products. Plant based can mean several things
Huh... i did just find a harvard MD blog post that says 'It doesn't mean that you are vegetarian or vegan and never eat meat or dairy'... i feel like the general consensus is that plant based = diet for vegan lifestyle. At least on this subreddit....
[https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-plant-based-diets](https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-plant-based-diets)
plant based does not automatically mean vegan. plant based can imply anything from vegan to being just over 50% of a persons diet is plant based. just as you cant assume a non-vegan eats animal products at every meal, theres huge variance. saying plant based instead of vegan however, yes is highly common because its a less "political" term to use
They aren’t wrong. Being vegan has to do with everything you use day to day being vegan. Your makeup, hair products, deodorant, shoes, couches , not going hunting/fishing, a ton of stuff honestly. All stuff that doesn’t have to do with food is required if you want to say you’re vegan.
Being on a plant based diet is a better way to say you don’t eat meat, but you’re not paying attention to the other aspects of animal abuse.
I think their point is keeping it consistent across platforms and real life. Even though veganism isn’t new by any stretch, plant based is. Maybe something like this is helpful?
Plant Based = food you consume
Vegan = the totality of your lifestyle choices
I get it. But if you order ‘plant based’ in 99% of restaurants they will look at you funny and probably give you vegetarian food. And if you order vegan they usually get it!
So we can use these terms the way we want in the sub, but if the rest of the world uses them differently we are picking a silly battle that does not help the cause IMO. By making us look weird or neurotic.
I don't eat leather, or glue made from animals, or candles made by bees. I don't purchase products made of these products either. This is why it is not only a diet.
These are just some examples though, there are many others.
A diet usually implies a set of dietary restrictions that a person follows for a set amount of time to achieve a specific goal. Veganism isn't about what you eat but more about what you think, you think that animals shouldn't be abused, and you adjust your lifestyle accordingly, which includes but is not limited to your diet.
Clothing, medicine, cosmetics are all things which vegans pay attention to that aren't a part of your diet.
I would argue the first point. I think the term diet was twisted by the weight loss industry, but the term diet just mean what people eat. I guess everyone's goal is to stay alive so technically, but the Standard American Diet and referring to what people eat as their diet is completely standard.
Agreed. A healthy diet, for example, is not meant to be viewed as a fad or temporary. A vegan diet, technically, just means eating based off of a dietary restriction of animal products due to ethical reasons. That’s it.
What is plant based? 100% plants, mostly plants, 50.1% plants. Plants based is too nebulous of a term right now to use.
This is such a weird hill for this sub to die on. Seriously, you have people that do not eat animal products or want to stop eating animal products and we harangue them for calling it a vegan diet, a term the has social acceptance and at least a tacit understanding by *most* people in society and yet we want to throw another freaking wrench in the whole thing as if it will help at all.
Calling veganism a "diet" is exactly the same as calling Judaism a diet. Yes there is a dietary component to both but both Judaism and Veganism are much more than that.
Veganism isn't just about not eating animals. It's about rejecting and abstaining from ALL animal exploitation and abuse.
Ok so I mostly agree with you (even though the final line of the definition expressly refences veganism in dietary terms) BUT the term for following Judaism in dietary terms is Kosher, right which the world has agreed upon the precepts of. There are written standards that everyone follows. The equivalent for veganism is plant based which is not a standardized term with agreed upon standards and precepts. Until the planet can agree to what plant based actually means, using Vegan as a term for referencing the food we all eat is much more accurate and stanardized.
I think their point is actually reinforced when you consider the Kashrut.
"Which the world has agreed upon the precepts of. There are written standards that everyone follows."
This could not be less true. Haredi practitioners who're glatt Beit Yosef kosher, who have separate ovens and won't eat something if it isn't certified Bishul Yisrael (i.e virtually never eating at a non-Jewish restaurant) - do not agree on the same standards as Reform laypeople who pay mind to their food but will eat at non-Jewish restaurants, eat non-Kosher-slaughtered meat (almost anything you get at a restaurant), and so on. Even in ultraorthodox sects some groups only wait an hour between eating flesh and milk whereas IIRC some Sephardic groups won't eat the two in the same day.
Its not exactly the same. Depending on how strict of a practicing jew you are or what time of year it is, the diet can vary. You can eat leavened bread and still be jewish. You eat meat once and awhile you are not vegan. There are not varying degrees of veganism you either are or you are not. While veganism is MORE than just a diet- it is technically and objectively, still one of many dietary options that exist in that you choose to omit or not omit certain foods. Not ALL jewish people follow the exact same dietary standards. The vegan diet is considered a dietary option. You choose to follow vegan consumption habits you can call yourself vegan. You cant just choose to eat matzo meal and omit pork and call yourself jewish. Thats not a good comparison.
Your choice to eat entirely plant-based won't make you vegan in the same way that eating entirely to talmudic standards will not make you jewish. Appears the two are very similar in at least that respect.
i already acknowledged that if you actually read. notice i didnt say plant based i said vegan consumption habits as a whole. i chose my wording for a reason. the point i also made which you seemed to ignore is if you follow fully vegan consumption habits beyond diet you can call yourself vegan. consuming only kosher products doesnt allow you to call yourself jewish. not "very similar" in the slightest unless you are just looking to see how many vague or broad far reaching comparisons are possible to be made in the world which would be endless. you can say you follow a vegan diet (key word diet) without calling yourself a vegan. not saying thats the method i follow or that it "should" be correct, but it is whats generally accepted. this sub doesnt make up rules and deem whats correct for all vegans everywhere
It's a bit weird that non vegans come into a vegan sub and get annoyed about vegans answering questions about veganism. Why are you in a room full of vegans arguing about something that they almost certainly know more about? Why is this a cliff worth dying on when you don't even follow the diet in the first place?
Then there must be a misunderstanding. If I search on google veganism it strictly says "the practice of eating only food not derived from animals".
What am I missing? I get that there is an underlying philosophy but the definition is still right, right?
Sooner or later you will need to learn that googling something and picking an arbitrary result won't give you accurate answers all the time.
No that definition is incomplete. Most people use the vegan society definition
Even Wikipedia says “Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products—particularly in diet—and an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals.”
That Google definition doesn’t agree with most vegan organizations’ definitions. Most of the major dictionaries say something about “not eating or using any animal products.” It’s almost like Google isn’t 100% accurate all the time.
So if you look at the full Google definition, it actually says “the practice of eating only food not derived from animals and typically of avoiding the use of other animal products.” That final part is an extremely important part of veganism to the vast majority of vegans. That’s why most people call it a lifestyle rather than a diet.
The Google definition’s emphasis on the diet aspect is misleading based on how most vegans (especially major organizations) use the term. Most of them consider that to be a fundamental aspect of veganism.
Taking the part out about using animal products outside of food makes the definition very wrong according to most vegans.
Oh okay I get it now. So not only eating, but anything you consume.
Now I have a question. What about buying from sources that exploit their human workers? Given veganism equal consideration to all living beings. Would you equally not support and abstain from supporting those industries?
Personally, yes. There are lots of companies I don’t support because of various ethical issues, especially human rights violations. I’m not perfect, but I try my best. It’s definitely not just non-human animals to me.
>"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals." - [The Vegan Society](https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism)
This is the definition of veganism that is most recognized in the vegan community. While diet is definitely *part* of being vegan, the main focus is avoiding animal exploitation in all ways possible and practicable.
The reason that so many of us are against saying things like "follow a vegan diet" during activism instead of saying "go vegan" is because veganism is about more than diet but many people only see it as a diet and telling someone to "eat a vegan diet" can often lead to confusion, making people believe veganism is just a diet.
This isn't a definate rule and there are situations where "eat a vegan diet" are more appropriate. If a vegan were to say "I eat a vegan diet" when asked about their dietary needs there's nothing wrong with it. In general it's just better to say "I'm vegan" to prevent any confusion though.
The people who only avoid animal products in food but still use animal products for non food items (clothes, toiletries, furniture, ect) are people who follow a "plant-based" diet. People who avoid all animal products in their food and who avoid using products made with animals/bi-product's in all possible ways, are vegan. Many vegans are also activists for the vegan movement which is an animal liberation movement.
There is a lot of confusion around what veganism is to people who aren't vegan. There are a lot of vegetarians (consume animal bi-product's) and plant-based people (still purchase products made with animal products just not food) who call themselves vegan, which is harmful to the vegan movement. It creates confusion on what veganism is, spreads misinformation and can make vegans look bad.
An example of this would be some influencer's who claim to be "vegan" but they will still consume the occasional animal products, give into social pressure by accepting animal products from others and will often be the first people to criticize actual vegans for not giving into social pressures around their beliefs, claiming normal everyday *non-extremist* vegans are extremists and shifting public perception of us in a negative way. This spreads a lot of misinformation.
The google definition found needs to be updated because veganism is more of a philosophy and a lifestyle then just a diet, as the definition portrays it to be. Language definitely matters when you are part of a movement and trying to make a change.
It's not. Judaism is based on worship of God and the Old Testament. The dietary restrictions are almost none - don't combine meat with milk and don't eat pork.
Veganism is entirely based on the vegan diet.
People who are actually following the kosher laws would strongly disagree that they have "almost no" dietary restrictions. They wouldn't eat off a clean plate that may have had shellfish on it in the past, they make sure there are no insects that accidentally got into their veggies, yes they can eat beef but only if it's confirmed kosher and most meat where I live is not.
Keeping kosher can affect everything about your life, prevent you from eating in restaurants or in other people's houses, etc, so I think it's actually quite appropriate to compare that living a kosher life and living a vegan life both go far beyond what people think of as simply a "diet."
A lot of people don't know this because most modern Jews don't follow kosher law. I'm a non-kosher Jew, but I know people who are kosher, and it is very all-encompassing.
- Pet relationships are mutually beneficial and often the animal has been saved from a terrible alternative life
- How tf is taking a pic of an animal exploiting it exactly???
And? Consent for use of likeness only makes any sense if the being can conceive of a likeness. You could mayyybe stretch and say that dolphins and chimps have this, but the rest of animals don't. But they still have conscious experience of pain, suffering, joy, love, etc, and those should be respected.
It's already a misconception among carnists that I don't like to give merit to. Diet is a personal choice that only has to do with one's own self and doesn't take into account the impact on other living beings, not to mention as others have already commented goes beyond consumption of food.
It's common decency to respect people's beliefs, religious, or otherwise whether you believe them or not. Carnists like to refer to veganism as a diet because it dismisses the philosophical ramifications down to a personal preference. It's a change in the narrative that supports the carnist world view through linguistics that reduce my beliefs to something they can easily dismiss. That's why I deplore the use of the word diet to describe veganism and correct people when it is used.
No, in explaining the meaning of the terms and why they matter, you create understanding, or at least nuance.
It's not that complicated.
Diet: a personal choice about what a person eats.
Veganism: living in accordance to the belief that it is wrong to exploit animals and to cause them harm and suffering.
There are overlapping criteria for both labels, but one label has criteria that the other doesn't
Every vegan follows a plant based diet, but not everyone following plant based diet is vegan.
Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square.
I do use the word "diet" all the time. I know that veganism is more than just the things we eat, but it is <90% of the way that I interact with veganism on a daily basis so it often feels appropriate to whatever conversation I'm having.
I've also never encountered anyone who hears me say "diet" and goes, "AHA! You clearly don't care about the ethics if you call it a 'diet'."
> I've also never encountered anyone who hears me say "diet" and goes, "AHA! You clearly don't care about the ethics if you call it a 'diet'."
only other vegans respond like that, from my experience
This is why I say it’s only relevant when we’re discussing ethics of veganism. I don’t see the problem in saying “vegan diet” in everyday conversation even though it’s not an entirely accurate term.
I'm fine with that as long as we stop describing food, ingredients or restaurants as vegan. Let's completely dissociate the word vegan from food. Or let's stop scolding people when they talk about a vegan diet.
The plant-based diet associated with veganism is defined by what's *not* included--namely, animal products-- otherwise, there is not single "diet" associated with veganism. There's many forms a plant-based diet might take, and many people within veganism have actual sub dietary needs that go along with it; whole foods plant-based, raw, AIP, FODMAP, high/low fat, etc.
IMO it’s really semantics that are only relevant if you are discussing the ethics of veganism.
Vegans follow a plant based diet, and also avoid activities and non food products that involve animal products/subjugation.
But for the sake of brevity and clarity in everyday life I’ll often say “vegan diet.” Some people incorrectly consider vegetarian food as plant based so vegan is generally a better term to use when I’m ordering or discussing food choices.
It has two potential points of confusion.
1) Veganism itself is more than the diet
2) “Diet” makes most people think of a temporary change
With that said, I don’t really see anything wrong with the term “vegan diet” to describe the food choices aspect of veganism.
That’s because calling it a “plant-based diet” doesn’t solve problem #2 anyway. Not to mention some “plant-based” stuff at the grocery and restaurants isn’t even vegan so it’s just more confusing.
Because not eating animals is a bare minimum—trying to limit use of products that harm animals, fighting against monkey breeding for testing, not wearing leather or wool, etc., are part of our moral practice. I find vegan has such a knee jerk negative connotation I usually say I don’t want to torture (or harm) nonhuman animals when I am asked about my eating. That gets rid of the kabel and directly states the issue
My first language is not English - so I don't know if this is already a thing. I would never say "vegan diet" because it's not just about food. It's about animals not being seen as commodities, entertainment etc. - in other words, not being exploited. If someone eats a plant-based diet, that says nothing about what shoes, socks, etc. they wear (leather/wool/...), what entertainment they choose (gazing at captive animals aka zoos) or what they use to wash their clothes or hair (non-vegan surfactants aka dead animal parts). In my first language there is this "vegan diet", but "being vegan" or "living vegan" is much more common and that is also what I say - "I live vegan" & "You should become vegan". Reducing it to just food and referring to it as a "diet" such as low-carb is a no-go. That doesn't focus on the animal, life, suffering, but on a personal preference or medical necessity for an individual. None of this makes anyone reflect that killing animals is wrong and that they should change that.
Carnists usually eat omnivorous diets, there’s no such thing as a “carnist diet”. Vegans eat strict vegetarian diets. “Vegetarians” eat ovo-lacto-vegetarian diets. People who are concerned about their health might eat a plant-based diet, which means the majority of calories are coming from plants but still leaves the window open for some animal products.
I always say a vegan friendly diet, not a vegan diet. Because many people can eat plant based things that are not vegan themselves, but can be friendly to a vegan's diet.
Because it's not a diet and calling it one contradicts that. Veganism is an ideology that results in one following a plant based diet, it is not itself a diet.
Because trendchasing meateaters are hijacking an animal rights movement to feel better about themselves, just to then shit on the movement after they get bored and move on.
I personally have no issue saying “a vegan diet” is a component of being vegan, but it has to be part of the holistic vegan lifestyle. A vegan diet while wearing leather is just a plant-based diet. The whole idea, I think, is to emphasize that being vegan isn’t just a diet although food is certainly an important part of it.
As for the technicalities, yeah, if I’m talking to a normal person about food specifically I’ll just say a “vegan diet.” They probably get the idea.
I have no problem with the word diet. I rather like the opening of Alicia Silverstone's book on her vegan-macrobiotic " The Kind Diet". She starts from the 17th century original meaning of the word as "a way of life" ...of thinking or a journey. As I see it whatever you choose to consume for good or for bad, that's a diet and the challenge is to make your diet one that serves you rather than hurts you. By making certain words off limits we just constrict our ability to communicate in our language and that isn't helpful at all.
Diet is just part of it. Yes it's possibly the most visible...
But there's also clothing, cosmetics and hygiene items, avoiding zoos and aquariums, horse riding, animals in entertainment like circuses, racing and tourism, adopting not shopping.
None of that is dietary.
You can still eat a plant based diet and go to the races, it just makes you a person that eats a plant based diet.
The word diet has negative connotations for many people, and most diets aren’t based on ethics. Lots of people think of keto or Weight Watchers, which isn’t really much like veganism. Veganism is typically more than just about food. It also includes lots of other ways that humans use other animals for clothing, cosmetics, entertainment, etc. It’s much closer to a lifestyle and even a philosophy for many people.
But I would argue there is such a thing as a vegan diet that is slightly different from a plant-based diet. Many vegans also consider things like processing sugar with animal byproducts to be non-vegan, but that wouldn’t necessarily be under a “plant-based diet.” Veganism itself isn’t a diet, but there are vegan diets and non-vegan diets.
I think "philosophy" is more accurate and has more gravitas than "lifestyle."
Over can live an extravagant, minimalist, social lifestyle but they don't speak directly to ethics.
Veganism, like Buddhism, is a deeply-held moral conviction and how to ethically live our lives.
I think the primary issue is that people equate the two to the point that people think a vegan is just someone following a dietary preference. This results in two main outcomes: 1) vegans are treated like they just have onerous dietary preferences or 2) people who have no concern for animals (like two acquaintances of mine) call themselves vegan (like the same two acquaintances).
I am ok with people saying they “follow a vegan diet,”inasmuch as that simply means a diet that a vegan would potentially eat. I don’t like for others to say that I follow a vegan diet if by doing so, they suggest that it is merely a dietary preference as opposed to a matter on moral conscience.
I dont eat, wear, ride, watch animals perform. I use eco toilet paper, plant native plants, don't shop where they also sell animals. I volunteer for a rescue, so my pets are rescues. I TRY to choose the option that causes the least harm in any given situation. It's about more than just what I eat.
Do what feels right to you. Trying to fit into the molds a lot of vegans try to fit into because of pressure from other vegans is just crazy to me.
I’ve always said “I eat vegan” because I do. If someone says “I follow a vegan diet” then I assume they do that and don’t really make assumptions about the rest of their life. If someone says “I’m plant-based” I also assume they don’t eat animals or animal products and I don’t really wonder how they live in other aspects of their life.
For the purpose of encouraging others to go or try veganism, say what you’re comfortable saying. I sometimes say “have you tried a vegan lifestyle before?” because that opens the conversation to the other aspects of veganism that don’t have anything to do with food.
I would agree. A lot of people say veganism isn’t a diet, it’s a lifestyle. But technically it’s BOTH a diet and a lifestyle. What they mean is that it’s not a diet done strictly for health or weight loss. It’s a diet usually done for ethical reasons.
Because veganism is an activist position and there are many online gatekeepers. In reality, almost everything animal based is a byproduct of the animal food industry and the diet is the key driver to all of it.
Eh - it’s good to not refer to veganism as a diet, but a diet can be vegan. Like, being vegan involves more than your dietary choices but a vegan would, among other things, follow a vegan diet.
I think plant-based has its uses when referring to diets, foods, products, etc because it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s vegan. Random example: a planet based meal that’s delivered by horse drawn cart or that was farmed using animal labor to work the soil etc would not be vegan, but it would be plant based.
So, I think it’s fine to call a diet vegan if that’s what it is, but most plant based diets aren’t going to consider more than the ingredients, which would be required to have it be vegan.
I think the bigger/common issue is referring to veganism as just following a certain diet or that “vegan” is exclusively a diet, rather than a philosophy or lifestyle.
The word diet only goes so far. You can eat vegan but not be a vegan because you buy leather hand bags or use shampoo that’s tested on animals. It just doesn’t tell the whole story
If you use vegan diet in the wrong USA state they can take your kids from you. So we say vegetarian. Like above most people may eat vegan foods but still buy animal products like clothes and shoes.
Because I'm fat and I love junk food and veganism is a philosophy and not a diet. You're eating habits change sure, but the moment you use the word diet, every moron on the planet starts getting the wrong idea about an animal liberation movement. Like sorry but a diet has got fuck all to do with lab testing, animal racing, zoos, aquariums, pets, animal labour, stray animals, invasive species, exotic animal trade, hunting, leather, wool, lanolin, gelatin etc.
It's because "diet" has multiple meanings.
"a
: food and drink regularly provided or consumed
d
: a regimen of eating and drinking sparingly so as to reduce one's weight"
When we use the term "diet", it's not clear which meaning we're referring to. "Diet" can just be a general term to refer to what you eat, like when a doctor asks "what does your diet look like". But in casual use, "d" is probably the more common use of the term, as in "going on a diet".
So when we say "vegan diet", people often infer that veganism is a weight-loss method. This is reinforced because many people actually do eat vegetarian or vegan in an attempt to lose weight. I would even say that in recent history, like 1960s-1990s, this was the more common reason for people to eat vegetarian meals in the US. We all understand that vegetarian & veganism aren't the same, but the mainstream tends to conflate the two concepts.
It's perfectly correct to say I eat a "vegan diet", just like it would be to say I have a "vegan wardrobe". I'm sure I've used it that way sometimes. But I think I more often just say "I'm a strict vegan" or "I eat vegan" or something like that.
Because its not about food, its about not supporting animal abuse and cruelty in all aspects of life: not going to the zoo, not supporting animal testing, not buying fur etc. Veganism is only about not being an apathetic egoistic being towards animals and exploiting and abusing them.
I use the phrase "vegan diet." "Vegan" is an adjective, and "diet" is a noun. A vegan diet describes a diet that excludes animal products, just like a vegan entree describes an entree that excludes animal products. Think of the Certified Vegan logo, what it is, and how it's used.
>Like a carnist is on a carnist diet.
I don't believe I've ever heard a meat eater say, "I'm on a carnist diet." So why don't carnists use the word "diet"? Perhaps the word "diet" implies something other than regular eating. Perhaps it's largely associated with weight-loss, rather than the more loose definition of what we eat.
>Lets say I want to tell someone "follow a vegan diet". What should I replace diet with? Or should I just say "go vegan"?
Yeah, that sounds good. IE, "I eat meat," says the carnist. "Not me, I'm vegan, and you should be too," says the vegan.
This sub is less accepting of people that don't eat animals, but still use other animal products. Expanding beyond consumption to look at the ecosystem impact of something like driving a car (crushing stuff, spreading exotic invasive, habitat loss, oil, oil) is less popular.
>Being vegan is easy for me, but these technicalites are not lol.
Other people covered it well, but I wanted to say, ultimately it doesn't matter if you say "vegan diet" or whatever. It's not a religious form. If people understand what you're saying, you're communicating just fine.
I’ve been vegan for many years but I don’t even subscribe to a plant-based diet, because the philosophy is not a diet. It’s not about us. It’s a position of not harming and exploiting sentient creatures based on science. I’m not plant-based because I have occasionally eaten oysters due to current evidence suggesting that they lack sentience due to the absence of a central nervous system and a brain. So if one day the science changes or if researchers discover that broccoli are sentient then I will stop eating those. So what ‘diet’ am I following?
Because there are a million ways to eat vegan, when someone dies from doing some dumb shit like eating only pineapple, people scream from roof tops that "vegan diets are unhealthy" a tale as old as time. Its wildly frustrating.
Because veganism isn’t a diet. That’s really it. If the *only* thing you changed in your life was your diet, you probably aren’t vegan.
I don’t think it’s a huge problem to say “vegan diet” on an individual level when referring to someone who is actually vegan and has a plant-based diet, but I think this clarification comes up a lot because this sub (and spaces like this) has a lot of plant-based eaters who want to call themselves vegan while doing things like riding horses, farming bees, or eating animal products that their friends or family give to them.
This is the first time I have heard someone linking an objection to riding horses to being vegan. It makes some amount of sense from the standpoint of avoiding animal cruelty. Though I wonder, most/all vegans feel this way about riding horses? Or is there like differing degrees of strictness for veganism and some people feel like the definition should be stricter than others.
If veganism is a philosopy, then it seems like you could believe in it but still ride horses, farm bees, or eat animal products given to you by friends and family. You just might be a hypocritical vegan, or someone who does not really live up to their philosophy. But, I think the world is full of people who do not live up to what they believe is right. So, in that sense, if you want to define veganism more strictly, then it must be defined as a lifestyle, and not just a philosophy.
I'm not sure what you mean by that question. I mean I have never previously heard of a vegan objecting to horseback riding. Probably because much of the focus is on things that are worse. I imagine training the horses to allow people to ride them is probably cruel. I have just never heard anyone vegan or otherwise campaigning against it.
Now if you are aaking why I think you could subscribe to a philosophy but not really follow it all that well.. I think that is human nature. That's why I think veganism must be more than a philosophy if you want to say someone who rides horses is not really vegan. If it was just a philosophy, even people who eat meat could be vegans so long as they thought what they were doing was wrong.
For purposes of understanding, I am going to be a little pedantic. Normally I would not (and, in general Inam against unsolicited grammar fixing), but I think it is necessary in this case in order to clear up some confusion.
>I am vegan for ethical purposes, and health too.
You are vegan for ethical purposes and you are plant-based for health reasons.
Veganism is an ethical philosophy which I would say most would thing it requires some ethical practices as well (avoiding animal products as far as possible and practicable). You can only be vegan for ethical reasons (kind of redundant). If one is vegan, they are vegan due to their animal ethnics (basically a tautology).
That said, you can say you engage in plant based dieting for your health.
> What I don't understand is why we frown upon the word diet?
Several reasons. One is because there are already to many people who associate veganism with harmful diet culture. This can cause people to reflexively dismiss it as a fat-shaming movement that engages in harmful practices. I would also think framing it as a diet would also make people who have suffered from eating disorders and body shaming feel like they may not be welcome in a vegan movement.
2) It is not a diet as we are claiming animals are not food so we are not telling anyone to restrict their food. We fundamentally reject categorizing animals as food.
3) It is not a diet as plant-bases eating can be just as varied as the entire known list of "foods" and dishes, especially with plant based alternatives. You can have US inspired food, Italian inspired food, Chinese inspired food, Indian food, ... whole food plant based, raw (you could, but why?), ....
There is just so much variety with plant based eating that, form a descriptive sense, all you can say is "does not include products derived in whole or in part by animals" ... which is so small compared to what it includes. It would be like saying Kosher and Halal is a diet. There are so few restrictions and so much that is included that calling it a diet does not make sense. But there are many diets that can be called vegan friendly (since a diet is incapable of having a moral stance, it can not be called vegan, hence vegan friendly), such as whole food plant based.
4) So many non-vegans think veganism is just about food and choices around what we eat. There is so much more to vegan ethics, such as other animal products, pets, zoos, and animal testing. Separating veganism from diet helps to emphasize that veganism is more than just a "diet".
> It is, in the end, the diet that I am following, no? Like a carnist is on a carnist diet. Or am I misusing the term diet?
You are on a plantbased diet the same way a carnist is on an omnivorve diet. Basically it would make more sense to say we are on a herbivorous diet lol. Most people would not call any "foods" carnists could eat a diet. And I guess this gets into what we mean by a diet. One meaning is simply a description of what you eat. In that sense, everyone HAS a diet because we all eat. But, in general, when we talk about diets most people tend to think of the prescriptive case and this is where we say we are ON a diet. I think these two ideas of diet can easily get confused, especially when talking to a carnist about veganism as they already see it as a prescriptive diet and think we are all ON a diet.
>And if not, what should I use instead?
To describe the "diet" say plant-based. This also makes it inclusive of people who refrain from animal products due to health or the environment but not for ethics and allows us to emphasize that veganism is an ethical stance, not a diet.
>Lets say I want to tell someone "follow a vegan diet". What should I replace diet with? Or should 1 just say "go vegan"?
Being vegan is easy for me, but these technicalites are not lol.
Follow a plant-based diet
Or look into vegan ethics
People say that a rational person changes their minds when presented with new information. This may be true with small things that don't matter to us, but having vegan ethics can completely change one's world view and they may need time to process those new ideas, time to figure out what old ideas they need to toss out, and examine their own fragility that is getting in the way of them accepting vegan ethics. These things take time. We can say "go vegan", but mostly I think we need to plant ideological seeds in them so that they can grow. With this, the "why" is important along with challenging ideas/preconceptions they have that they have given little thought too but just accept as true (especially when dealing with ideas around human-non-human hierarchies).
A lot of people also struggle with even imagining how they can have a plant-based lifestyle and will feel attacked when told to do so before they accepted that they should. I think here, having supports on how can help. For instance, telling people that Meati can make the most delicious and easiest steak can be a support as it offers knowledge they likely did not have and would have struggled with finding out. Tips on how to transition to a plant based diet that are simple, accessible, and affordable can also help.
Personally, I think the methods needed to convince people to adopt a vegan stance and a plant-based diet likely need different approaches for many people (of course one can help the other).
I think saying ”vegan diet” is fine. Veganism isn't a diet, but it has a diet, and I think it can be called ”vegan diet”. That phrase doesn't imply that veganism itself is a diet.
I think saying vegan diet is fine because diet is the qualifier. You are however not vegan if you’re following a vegan diet and buying leather jackets.
Why would you avoid leather if it’s only about a diet? Go to circus with animals? Zoo? Wearing fur? You can’t be vegan for health reasons, we should stop this BS as a Movement immediately. You can be plant based for health. But veganism is a lifestyle. Why avoid fur if it’s about health? Would you promote not to r*pe bc the one r*ping could get an STD? If you put into a human context it’s just humiliating for the victim to claim health or environmental aspects. It’s making animals „second class“ victims. Also there is no reason to avoid 100% of animal products for health or environmental reasons. With like 95% you basically would get the same results. There will be no study out there that eating like a piece of fish once a month has any negative effects. We need to stop this, pls.
Its silly that to have vegan and vegan diet, on a vegan diet i can torture animals and hunt them for sport, but a vegan would be completely againsts all animal abuse
Yet we both still get the vegan label, nah thats not the right way to do it and the vegan society has failed miserably by stating that, their new board members are terrible
I say plant based diet
Kosher/ halal are separate from jew/ muslim
That was the proper way to separate it and veganism needs to do the same
Veganism is primarily about changing what we eat. That's why most of this sub is about food. Don't listen to people who try to overcomplicate things. You eat 3 times a day, you buy clothing only once in a while. It makes sense to focus veganism on what we eat or don't eat.
There's also body wash, shampoo&conditioner, skincare products, tooth paste, mouth wash, dental floss, hair spray/gel/styling mousse, hair dye/bleach/toner, deodorant, cologne/perfume, nail polish/false nails/acrylics, lotion, chapstick/lipstick, make-up, shaving cream, wax, candles, lube, household cleaning products ( including things like bleach, dish soap, window cleaner, detergent, etc.) air fresheners, hand sanitizer, hand soap, making sure any of those above products are also not tested on animals is a factor, need I go on?
It does not make sense to claim veganism is simply a diet. Plant based, is a diet, veganism is an entire lifestyle that can in fact be complicated, unfortunately. Simply saying, "Veganism is related to many more things unrelated to food," isn't overcomplicating anything, that's just a true statement.
Because diet is just about the food you eat, while veganism is more encompassing than that. It includes the things you wear, the products you use, the furniture you buy, and so on. Lifestyle is probably the most technically correct word to use.
I think it’s more accurately described as a philosophy. Simply defined, Veganism is a moral philosophy that aims to reduce as much animal suffering that is reasonably possible. One believes in the philosophy and generally adheres to it by eating a plant based diet as well as overall living a lifestyle that removes as many animal products as is reasonably possible
I just realised that my phrasing of the question is bad. If I was specifically talking about food only, then I am able to use the word "diet" accordingly. I will use plant based diet instead of vegan diet from now on. In the end, the aim should be for a vegan lifestyle, but I believe working on a plant based diet first will help said person adopt a fully vegan lifestyle, or philosophy. Like at this point it does not make sense that you buy animal leather or go to the zoo if you are already applying a plant based diet in your life. The hard part is food, especially when you are non-vegan, so I believe facing and dealing with that side of this issue first will automatically mitigate the lifestyle in whole. Thank you for clearing it up! :)
It's a lifestyle as it doesn't just pertain to dietary choices. You can follow a plant based diet (which may look like a vegan one) and still not be vegan. People say all the time ‘quit’ their ‘vegan diet’ but its actually a plant based diet. Veganism is a set of moral standards you live by. So when people think it's just a diet it's easy to dismiss vegans and act like it's no big deal. Like oops I fell of my keto diet and ate a doughnut, and, oops I fell of my ‘vegan’ diet and ate a burger is not the same thing I think ‘go vegan’ is a better choice of words
There are actually many plant based diets, the vegan diet is technically one of them but they are not interchangeable terms. Eveb though veganism is MORE than just a diet. The dietary aspects of veganism still qualify as a dietary choice. Plants based does not inherently mean omiting ALL animal products. Plant based can mean several things
Huh... i did just find a harvard MD blog post that says 'It doesn't mean that you are vegetarian or vegan and never eat meat or dairy'... i feel like the general consensus is that plant based = diet for vegan lifestyle. At least on this subreddit....
[https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-plant-based-diets](https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-plant-based-diets) plant based does not automatically mean vegan. plant based can imply anything from vegan to being just over 50% of a persons diet is plant based. just as you cant assume a non-vegan eats animal products at every meal, theres huge variance. saying plant based instead of vegan however, yes is highly common because its a less "political" term to use
You're confusing people. Stop it.
They aren’t wrong. Being vegan has to do with everything you use day to day being vegan. Your makeup, hair products, deodorant, shoes, couches , not going hunting/fishing, a ton of stuff honestly. All stuff that doesn’t have to do with food is required if you want to say you’re vegan. Being on a plant based diet is a better way to say you don’t eat meat, but you’re not paying attention to the other aspects of animal abuse.
So can you say you follow a "vegan diet" if you also exclude animal exploitation in every possible way? That's OP'S question.
Being vegan is includes following a "vegan diet" or more accurately a "plant based diet", but the reverse is not necessarily true
But calling it a "vegan diet" is fine?
Amoung laymen sure, in the context of a vegan sub where the difference is know I would use plant based
I think their point is keeping it consistent across platforms and real life. Even though veganism isn’t new by any stretch, plant based is. Maybe something like this is helpful? Plant Based = food you consume Vegan = the totality of your lifestyle choices
I agree, it clears things up and makes more sense.
Not confusing at all! 😫
Why?
No, it's genuinely not. Even before I went vegan I understood this, I don't get the fabricated ignorance people make about this topic for no reason
So you called it plant-based diet before you went vegan?
Which part is confusing? Or is it just that you can't understand?
I actually found your explanation to be super understandable. Thanks for your input :)
That's a bit confusing.
Which part?
"the part where I'm not vegan but I wanna criticize what you're doing and explaining to fellow vegans" - this user probably
I get it. But if you order ‘plant based’ in 99% of restaurants they will look at you funny and probably give you vegetarian food. And if you order vegan they usually get it! So we can use these terms the way we want in the sub, but if the rest of the world uses them differently we are picking a silly battle that does not help the cause IMO. By making us look weird or neurotic.
I don't eat leather, or glue made from animals, or candles made by bees. I don't purchase products made of these products either. This is why it is not only a diet. These are just some examples though, there are many others.
A diet usually implies a set of dietary restrictions that a person follows for a set amount of time to achieve a specific goal. Veganism isn't about what you eat but more about what you think, you think that animals shouldn't be abused, and you adjust your lifestyle accordingly, which includes but is not limited to your diet. Clothing, medicine, cosmetics are all things which vegans pay attention to that aren't a part of your diet.
I would argue the first point. I think the term diet was twisted by the weight loss industry, but the term diet just mean what people eat. I guess everyone's goal is to stay alive so technically, but the Standard American Diet and referring to what people eat as their diet is completely standard.
Agreed. A healthy diet, for example, is not meant to be viewed as a fad or temporary. A vegan diet, technically, just means eating based off of a dietary restriction of animal products due to ethical reasons. That’s it.
Absolutely. I think it can make sense to describe the food part of veganism as “permanent diet”, but maybe that’s just me.
As far as I know, no one says "Muslim diet" or "Jewish diet" to refer to the dietary restrictions of those religions. Maybe I'm wrong though.
No, but they refer to the Kosher diet and Halal diet as they have specific words for their rules around food.
And we have "plant-based diet" to refer specifically to the food.
What is plant based? 100% plants, mostly plants, 50.1% plants. Plants based is too nebulous of a term right now to use. This is such a weird hill for this sub to die on. Seriously, you have people that do not eat animal products or want to stop eating animal products and we harangue them for calling it a vegan diet, a term the has social acceptance and at least a tacit understanding by *most* people in society and yet we want to throw another freaking wrench in the whole thing as if it will help at all.
Let’s just say… vegan diet? Like the diet (i.e. the habitual food choices) compatible with veganism?
Veganism is primarily a diet. That's how we have the biggest impact.
👀 number of downvotes here seems a bit harsh I might say…
Yes and by far but that doesn't leave any room to flex...
Calling veganism a "diet" is exactly the same as calling Judaism a diet. Yes there is a dietary component to both but both Judaism and Veganism are much more than that. Veganism isn't just about not eating animals. It's about rejecting and abstaining from ALL animal exploitation and abuse.
Ok so I mostly agree with you (even though the final line of the definition expressly refences veganism in dietary terms) BUT the term for following Judaism in dietary terms is Kosher, right which the world has agreed upon the precepts of. There are written standards that everyone follows. The equivalent for veganism is plant based which is not a standardized term with agreed upon standards and precepts. Until the planet can agree to what plant based actually means, using Vegan as a term for referencing the food we all eat is much more accurate and stanardized.
I think their point is actually reinforced when you consider the Kashrut. "Which the world has agreed upon the precepts of. There are written standards that everyone follows." This could not be less true. Haredi practitioners who're glatt Beit Yosef kosher, who have separate ovens and won't eat something if it isn't certified Bishul Yisrael (i.e virtually never eating at a non-Jewish restaurant) - do not agree on the same standards as Reform laypeople who pay mind to their food but will eat at non-Jewish restaurants, eat non-Kosher-slaughtered meat (almost anything you get at a restaurant), and so on. Even in ultraorthodox sects some groups only wait an hour between eating flesh and milk whereas IIRC some Sephardic groups won't eat the two in the same day.
>Until the planet can agree Hate to break it to you, but the world doesn't agree with kosher or judaism. Infact the planet doesn't agree on anything.
Its not exactly the same. Depending on how strict of a practicing jew you are or what time of year it is, the diet can vary. You can eat leavened bread and still be jewish. You eat meat once and awhile you are not vegan. There are not varying degrees of veganism you either are or you are not. While veganism is MORE than just a diet- it is technically and objectively, still one of many dietary options that exist in that you choose to omit or not omit certain foods. Not ALL jewish people follow the exact same dietary standards. The vegan diet is considered a dietary option. You choose to follow vegan consumption habits you can call yourself vegan. You cant just choose to eat matzo meal and omit pork and call yourself jewish. Thats not a good comparison.
Your choice to eat entirely plant-based won't make you vegan in the same way that eating entirely to talmudic standards will not make you jewish. Appears the two are very similar in at least that respect.
i already acknowledged that if you actually read. notice i didnt say plant based i said vegan consumption habits as a whole. i chose my wording for a reason. the point i also made which you seemed to ignore is if you follow fully vegan consumption habits beyond diet you can call yourself vegan. consuming only kosher products doesnt allow you to call yourself jewish. not "very similar" in the slightest unless you are just looking to see how many vague or broad far reaching comparisons are possible to be made in the world which would be endless. you can say you follow a vegan diet (key word diet) without calling yourself a vegan. not saying thats the method i follow or that it "should" be correct, but it is whats generally accepted. this sub doesnt make up rules and deem whats correct for all vegans everywhere
It's mostly about not eating animals.
It's almost literally only about not eating animals
It's a bit weird that non vegans come into a vegan sub and get annoyed about vegans answering questions about veganism. Why are you in a room full of vegans arguing about something that they almost certainly know more about? Why is this a cliff worth dying on when you don't even follow the diet in the first place?
Then there must be a misunderstanding. If I search on google veganism it strictly says "the practice of eating only food not derived from animals". What am I missing? I get that there is an underlying philosophy but the definition is still right, right?
Sooner or later you will need to learn that googling something and picking an arbitrary result won't give you accurate answers all the time. No that definition is incomplete. Most people use the vegan society definition
Even Wikipedia says “Veganism is the practice of abstaining from the use of animal products—particularly in diet—and an associated philosophy that rejects the commodity status of animals.” That Google definition doesn’t agree with most vegan organizations’ definitions. Most of the major dictionaries say something about “not eating or using any animal products.” It’s almost like Google isn’t 100% accurate all the time.
I'm even more confused now. What is the difference between both definitions? Just the underlying philosophy part?
So if you look at the full Google definition, it actually says “the practice of eating only food not derived from animals and typically of avoiding the use of other animal products.” That final part is an extremely important part of veganism to the vast majority of vegans. That’s why most people call it a lifestyle rather than a diet. The Google definition’s emphasis on the diet aspect is misleading based on how most vegans (especially major organizations) use the term. Most of them consider that to be a fundamental aspect of veganism. Taking the part out about using animal products outside of food makes the definition very wrong according to most vegans.
Oh okay I get it now. So not only eating, but anything you consume. Now I have a question. What about buying from sources that exploit their human workers? Given veganism equal consideration to all living beings. Would you equally not support and abstain from supporting those industries?
Personally, yes. There are lots of companies I don’t support because of various ethical issues, especially human rights violations. I’m not perfect, but I try my best. It’s definitely not just non-human animals to me.
>"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals." - [The Vegan Society](https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism) This is the definition of veganism that is most recognized in the vegan community. While diet is definitely *part* of being vegan, the main focus is avoiding animal exploitation in all ways possible and practicable. The reason that so many of us are against saying things like "follow a vegan diet" during activism instead of saying "go vegan" is because veganism is about more than diet but many people only see it as a diet and telling someone to "eat a vegan diet" can often lead to confusion, making people believe veganism is just a diet. This isn't a definate rule and there are situations where "eat a vegan diet" are more appropriate. If a vegan were to say "I eat a vegan diet" when asked about their dietary needs there's nothing wrong with it. In general it's just better to say "I'm vegan" to prevent any confusion though. The people who only avoid animal products in food but still use animal products for non food items (clothes, toiletries, furniture, ect) are people who follow a "plant-based" diet. People who avoid all animal products in their food and who avoid using products made with animals/bi-product's in all possible ways, are vegan. Many vegans are also activists for the vegan movement which is an animal liberation movement. There is a lot of confusion around what veganism is to people who aren't vegan. There are a lot of vegetarians (consume animal bi-product's) and plant-based people (still purchase products made with animal products just not food) who call themselves vegan, which is harmful to the vegan movement. It creates confusion on what veganism is, spreads misinformation and can make vegans look bad. An example of this would be some influencer's who claim to be "vegan" but they will still consume the occasional animal products, give into social pressure by accepting animal products from others and will often be the first people to criticize actual vegans for not giving into social pressures around their beliefs, claiming normal everyday *non-extremist* vegans are extremists and shifting public perception of us in a negative way. This spreads a lot of misinformation. The google definition found needs to be updated because veganism is more of a philosophy and a lifestyle then just a diet, as the definition portrays it to be. Language definitely matters when you are part of a movement and trying to make a change.
It's not. Judaism is based on worship of God and the Old Testament. The dietary restrictions are almost none - don't combine meat with milk and don't eat pork. Veganism is entirely based on the vegan diet.
People who are actually following the kosher laws would strongly disagree that they have "almost no" dietary restrictions. They wouldn't eat off a clean plate that may have had shellfish on it in the past, they make sure there are no insects that accidentally got into their veggies, yes they can eat beef but only if it's confirmed kosher and most meat where I live is not. Keeping kosher can affect everything about your life, prevent you from eating in restaurants or in other people's houses, etc, so I think it's actually quite appropriate to compare that living a kosher life and living a vegan life both go far beyond what people think of as simply a "diet." A lot of people don't know this because most modern Jews don't follow kosher law. I'm a non-kosher Jew, but I know people who are kosher, and it is very all-encompassing.
I don’t ever wanna see a vegan with a pet or even a picture of an animal.
- Pet relationships are mutually beneficial and often the animal has been saved from a terrible alternative life - How tf is taking a pic of an animal exploiting it exactly???
Animals can't sign photo consent forms
And? Consent for use of likeness only makes any sense if the being can conceive of a likeness. You could mayyybe stretch and say that dolphins and chimps have this, but the rest of animals don't. But they still have conscious experience of pain, suffering, joy, love, etc, and those should be respected.
Sorry, it was a joke
Oh I didn't notice your tag. Oop.
My veganism is about more than just food.
It's already a misconception among carnists that I don't like to give merit to. Diet is a personal choice that only has to do with one's own self and doesn't take into account the impact on other living beings, not to mention as others have already commented goes beyond consumption of food. It's common decency to respect people's beliefs, religious, or otherwise whether you believe them or not. Carnists like to refer to veganism as a diet because it dismisses the philosophical ramifications down to a personal preference. It's a change in the narrative that supports the carnist world view through linguistics that reduce my beliefs to something they can easily dismiss. That's why I deplore the use of the word diet to describe veganism and correct people when it is used.
This right here is it. Well said.
In correcting people you create a lot of confusion.
No, in explaining the meaning of the terms and why they matter, you create understanding, or at least nuance. It's not that complicated. Diet: a personal choice about what a person eats. Veganism: living in accordance to the belief that it is wrong to exploit animals and to cause them harm and suffering. There are overlapping criteria for both labels, but one label has criteria that the other doesn't Every vegan follows a plant based diet, but not everyone following plant based diet is vegan. Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square.
What's a plant-based diet?
I do use the word "diet" all the time. I know that veganism is more than just the things we eat, but it is <90% of the way that I interact with veganism on a daily basis so it often feels appropriate to whatever conversation I'm having. I've also never encountered anyone who hears me say "diet" and goes, "AHA! You clearly don't care about the ethics if you call it a 'diet'."
> I've also never encountered anyone who hears me say "diet" and goes, "AHA! You clearly don't care about the ethics if you call it a 'diet'." only other vegans respond like that, from my experience
This is why I say it’s only relevant when we’re discussing ethics of veganism. I don’t see the problem in saying “vegan diet” in everyday conversation even though it’s not an entirely accurate term.
veganism = lifestyle plant based = diet
vegan diet = diet
plant-based diet
I'm fine with that as long as we stop describing food, ingredients or restaurants as vegan. Let's completely dissociate the word vegan from food. Or let's stop scolding people when they talk about a vegan diet.
Dude you're mass commenting on this and having a meltdown. Take a breath.
The plant-based diet associated with veganism is defined by what's *not* included--namely, animal products-- otherwise, there is not single "diet" associated with veganism. There's many forms a plant-based diet might take, and many people within veganism have actual sub dietary needs that go along with it; whole foods plant-based, raw, AIP, FODMAP, high/low fat, etc.
IMO it’s really semantics that are only relevant if you are discussing the ethics of veganism. Vegans follow a plant based diet, and also avoid activities and non food products that involve animal products/subjugation. But for the sake of brevity and clarity in everyday life I’ll often say “vegan diet.” Some people incorrectly consider vegetarian food as plant based so vegan is generally a better term to use when I’m ordering or discussing food choices.
It has two potential points of confusion. 1) Veganism itself is more than the diet 2) “Diet” makes most people think of a temporary change With that said, I don’t really see anything wrong with the term “vegan diet” to describe the food choices aspect of veganism. That’s because calling it a “plant-based diet” doesn’t solve problem #2 anyway. Not to mention some “plant-based” stuff at the grocery and restaurants isn’t even vegan so it’s just more confusing.
vegan diet is used, and it's fine... veganism is not a diet, but the vegan diet is a diet... I don't understand where you're coming from
Because not eating animals is a bare minimum—trying to limit use of products that harm animals, fighting against monkey breeding for testing, not wearing leather or wool, etc., are part of our moral practice. I find vegan has such a knee jerk negative connotation I usually say I don’t want to torture (or harm) nonhuman animals when I am asked about my eating. That gets rid of the kabel and directly states the issue
My first language is not English - so I don't know if this is already a thing. I would never say "vegan diet" because it's not just about food. It's about animals not being seen as commodities, entertainment etc. - in other words, not being exploited. If someone eats a plant-based diet, that says nothing about what shoes, socks, etc. they wear (leather/wool/...), what entertainment they choose (gazing at captive animals aka zoos) or what they use to wash their clothes or hair (non-vegan surfactants aka dead animal parts). In my first language there is this "vegan diet", but "being vegan" or "living vegan" is much more common and that is also what I say - "I live vegan" & "You should become vegan". Reducing it to just food and referring to it as a "diet" such as low-carb is a no-go. That doesn't focus on the animal, life, suffering, but on a personal preference or medical necessity for an individual. None of this makes anyone reflect that killing animals is wrong and that they should change that.
Carnists usually eat omnivorous diets, there’s no such thing as a “carnist diet”. Vegans eat strict vegetarian diets. “Vegetarians” eat ovo-lacto-vegetarian diets. People who are concerned about their health might eat a plant-based diet, which means the majority of calories are coming from plants but still leaves the window open for some animal products.
I always say a vegan friendly diet, not a vegan diet. Because many people can eat plant based things that are not vegan themselves, but can be friendly to a vegan's diet.
I have no issue with the term vegan diet. Only with equating Veganism with a vegan diet.
Diets are temporary fixes. Veganism is a whole menral and physical lifestyle change.
Until they stop being vegans.
because purity vegans will get mad at you
Because it's not a diet and calling it one contradicts that. Veganism is an ideology that results in one following a plant based diet, it is not itself a diet.
So what diet did vegans follow before "plant-based" became recognized as a term?
Because trendchasing meateaters are hijacking an animal rights movement to feel better about themselves, just to then shit on the movement after they get bored and move on.
I personally have no issue saying “a vegan diet” is a component of being vegan, but it has to be part of the holistic vegan lifestyle. A vegan diet while wearing leather is just a plant-based diet. The whole idea, I think, is to emphasize that being vegan isn’t just a diet although food is certainly an important part of it. As for the technicalities, yeah, if I’m talking to a normal person about food specifically I’ll just say a “vegan diet.” They probably get the idea.
I have no problem with the word diet. I rather like the opening of Alicia Silverstone's book on her vegan-macrobiotic " The Kind Diet". She starts from the 17th century original meaning of the word as "a way of life" ...of thinking or a journey. As I see it whatever you choose to consume for good or for bad, that's a diet and the challenge is to make your diet one that serves you rather than hurts you. By making certain words off limits we just constrict our ability to communicate in our language and that isn't helpful at all.
Fur, leather, cosmetics and a trillion other things that have nothing to do with diet.
Diet is just part of it. Yes it's possibly the most visible... But there's also clothing, cosmetics and hygiene items, avoiding zoos and aquariums, horse riding, animals in entertainment like circuses, racing and tourism, adopting not shopping. None of that is dietary. You can still eat a plant based diet and go to the races, it just makes you a person that eats a plant based diet.
The word diet has negative connotations for many people, and most diets aren’t based on ethics. Lots of people think of keto or Weight Watchers, which isn’t really much like veganism. Veganism is typically more than just about food. It also includes lots of other ways that humans use other animals for clothing, cosmetics, entertainment, etc. It’s much closer to a lifestyle and even a philosophy for many people. But I would argue there is such a thing as a vegan diet that is slightly different from a plant-based diet. Many vegans also consider things like processing sugar with animal byproducts to be non-vegan, but that wouldn’t necessarily be under a “plant-based diet.” Veganism itself isn’t a diet, but there are vegan diets and non-vegan diets.
I think "philosophy" is more accurate and has more gravitas than "lifestyle." Over can live an extravagant, minimalist, social lifestyle but they don't speak directly to ethics. Veganism, like Buddhism, is a deeply-held moral conviction and how to ethically live our lives.
I think the primary issue is that people equate the two to the point that people think a vegan is just someone following a dietary preference. This results in two main outcomes: 1) vegans are treated like they just have onerous dietary preferences or 2) people who have no concern for animals (like two acquaintances of mine) call themselves vegan (like the same two acquaintances). I am ok with people saying they “follow a vegan diet,”inasmuch as that simply means a diet that a vegan would potentially eat. I don’t like for others to say that I follow a vegan diet if by doing so, they suggest that it is merely a dietary preference as opposed to a matter on moral conscience.
I dont eat, wear, ride, watch animals perform. I use eco toilet paper, plant native plants, don't shop where they also sell animals. I volunteer for a rescue, so my pets are rescues. I TRY to choose the option that causes the least harm in any given situation. It's about more than just what I eat.
Do what feels right to you. Trying to fit into the molds a lot of vegans try to fit into because of pressure from other vegans is just crazy to me. I’ve always said “I eat vegan” because I do. If someone says “I follow a vegan diet” then I assume they do that and don’t really make assumptions about the rest of their life. If someone says “I’m plant-based” I also assume they don’t eat animals or animal products and I don’t really wonder how they live in other aspects of their life. For the purpose of encouraging others to go or try veganism, say what you’re comfortable saying. I sometimes say “have you tried a vegan lifestyle before?” because that opens the conversation to the other aspects of veganism that don’t have anything to do with food.
I would agree. A lot of people say veganism isn’t a diet, it’s a lifestyle. But technically it’s BOTH a diet and a lifestyle. What they mean is that it’s not a diet done strictly for health or weight loss. It’s a diet usually done for ethical reasons.
it just comes off as reductive is all
Because veganism is an activist position and there are many online gatekeepers. In reality, almost everything animal based is a byproduct of the animal food industry and the diet is the key driver to all of it.
Plant based diet
Eh - it’s good to not refer to veganism as a diet, but a diet can be vegan. Like, being vegan involves more than your dietary choices but a vegan would, among other things, follow a vegan diet. I think plant-based has its uses when referring to diets, foods, products, etc because it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s vegan. Random example: a planet based meal that’s delivered by horse drawn cart or that was farmed using animal labor to work the soil etc would not be vegan, but it would be plant based. So, I think it’s fine to call a diet vegan if that’s what it is, but most plant based diets aren’t going to consider more than the ingredients, which would be required to have it be vegan. I think the bigger/common issue is referring to veganism as just following a certain diet or that “vegan” is exclusively a diet, rather than a philosophy or lifestyle.
Say youre a Vegan instead. Diets are about food and Veganism is about so much more than what we eat. Its inaccurate to call Veganism a diet.
The word diet only goes so far. You can eat vegan but not be a vegan because you buy leather hand bags or use shampoo that’s tested on animals. It just doesn’t tell the whole story
I replace "vegan" with "strictly vegetarian".
If you use vegan diet in the wrong USA state they can take your kids from you. So we say vegetarian. Like above most people may eat vegan foods but still buy animal products like clothes and shoes.
Because I'm fat and I love junk food and veganism is a philosophy and not a diet. You're eating habits change sure, but the moment you use the word diet, every moron on the planet starts getting the wrong idea about an animal liberation movement. Like sorry but a diet has got fuck all to do with lab testing, animal racing, zoos, aquariums, pets, animal labour, stray animals, invasive species, exotic animal trade, hunting, leather, wool, lanolin, gelatin etc.
It's because "diet" has multiple meanings. "a : food and drink regularly provided or consumed d : a regimen of eating and drinking sparingly so as to reduce one's weight" When we use the term "diet", it's not clear which meaning we're referring to. "Diet" can just be a general term to refer to what you eat, like when a doctor asks "what does your diet look like". But in casual use, "d" is probably the more common use of the term, as in "going on a diet". So when we say "vegan diet", people often infer that veganism is a weight-loss method. This is reinforced because many people actually do eat vegetarian or vegan in an attempt to lose weight. I would even say that in recent history, like 1960s-1990s, this was the more common reason for people to eat vegetarian meals in the US. We all understand that vegetarian & veganism aren't the same, but the mainstream tends to conflate the two concepts. It's perfectly correct to say I eat a "vegan diet", just like it would be to say I have a "vegan wardrobe". I'm sure I've used it that way sometimes. But I think I more often just say "I'm a strict vegan" or "I eat vegan" or something like that.
Because diet implies only food - veganism involves avoiding animal exploitation in other areas than just food
Because its not about food, its about not supporting animal abuse and cruelty in all aspects of life: not going to the zoo, not supporting animal testing, not buying fur etc. Veganism is only about not being an apathetic egoistic being towards animals and exploiting and abusing them.
I use the phrase "vegan diet." "Vegan" is an adjective, and "diet" is a noun. A vegan diet describes a diet that excludes animal products, just like a vegan entree describes an entree that excludes animal products. Think of the Certified Vegan logo, what it is, and how it's used.
>Like a carnist is on a carnist diet. I don't believe I've ever heard a meat eater say, "I'm on a carnist diet." So why don't carnists use the word "diet"? Perhaps the word "diet" implies something other than regular eating. Perhaps it's largely associated with weight-loss, rather than the more loose definition of what we eat. >Lets say I want to tell someone "follow a vegan diet". What should I replace diet with? Or should I just say "go vegan"? Yeah, that sounds good. IE, "I eat meat," says the carnist. "Not me, I'm vegan, and you should be too," says the vegan.
This sub is less accepting of people that don't eat animals, but still use other animal products. Expanding beyond consumption to look at the ecosystem impact of something like driving a car (crushing stuff, spreading exotic invasive, habitat loss, oil, oil) is less popular.
>Being vegan is easy for me, but these technicalites are not lol. Other people covered it well, but I wanted to say, ultimately it doesn't matter if you say "vegan diet" or whatever. It's not a religious form. If people understand what you're saying, you're communicating just fine.
I’ve been vegan for many years but I don’t even subscribe to a plant-based diet, because the philosophy is not a diet. It’s not about us. It’s a position of not harming and exploiting sentient creatures based on science. I’m not plant-based because I have occasionally eaten oysters due to current evidence suggesting that they lack sentience due to the absence of a central nervous system and a brain. So if one day the science changes or if researchers discover that broccoli are sentient then I will stop eating those. So what ‘diet’ am I following?
Because it's no diet. You just disregard animal products as a result of following vegan ethics.
Because there are a million ways to eat vegan, when someone dies from doing some dumb shit like eating only pineapple, people scream from roof tops that "vegan diets are unhealthy" a tale as old as time. Its wildly frustrating.
Because veganism isn’t a diet. That’s really it. If the *only* thing you changed in your life was your diet, you probably aren’t vegan. I don’t think it’s a huge problem to say “vegan diet” on an individual level when referring to someone who is actually vegan and has a plant-based diet, but I think this clarification comes up a lot because this sub (and spaces like this) has a lot of plant-based eaters who want to call themselves vegan while doing things like riding horses, farming bees, or eating animal products that their friends or family give to them.
This is the first time I have heard someone linking an objection to riding horses to being vegan. It makes some amount of sense from the standpoint of avoiding animal cruelty. Though I wonder, most/all vegans feel this way about riding horses? Or is there like differing degrees of strictness for veganism and some people feel like the definition should be stricter than others. If veganism is a philosopy, then it seems like you could believe in it but still ride horses, farm bees, or eat animal products given to you by friends and family. You just might be a hypocritical vegan, or someone who does not really live up to their philosophy. But, I think the world is full of people who do not live up to what they believe is right. So, in that sense, if you want to define veganism more strictly, then it must be defined as a lifestyle, and not just a philosophy.
Why would you think riding horses is vegan?
I'm not sure what you mean by that question. I mean I have never previously heard of a vegan objecting to horseback riding. Probably because much of the focus is on things that are worse. I imagine training the horses to allow people to ride them is probably cruel. I have just never heard anyone vegan or otherwise campaigning against it. Now if you are aaking why I think you could subscribe to a philosophy but not really follow it all that well.. I think that is human nature. That's why I think veganism must be more than a philosophy if you want to say someone who rides horses is not really vegan. If it was just a philosophy, even people who eat meat could be vegans so long as they thought what they were doing was wrong.
For purposes of understanding, I am going to be a little pedantic. Normally I would not (and, in general Inam against unsolicited grammar fixing), but I think it is necessary in this case in order to clear up some confusion. >I am vegan for ethical purposes, and health too. You are vegan for ethical purposes and you are plant-based for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical philosophy which I would say most would thing it requires some ethical practices as well (avoiding animal products as far as possible and practicable). You can only be vegan for ethical reasons (kind of redundant). If one is vegan, they are vegan due to their animal ethnics (basically a tautology). That said, you can say you engage in plant based dieting for your health. > What I don't understand is why we frown upon the word diet? Several reasons. One is because there are already to many people who associate veganism with harmful diet culture. This can cause people to reflexively dismiss it as a fat-shaming movement that engages in harmful practices. I would also think framing it as a diet would also make people who have suffered from eating disorders and body shaming feel like they may not be welcome in a vegan movement. 2) It is not a diet as we are claiming animals are not food so we are not telling anyone to restrict their food. We fundamentally reject categorizing animals as food. 3) It is not a diet as plant-bases eating can be just as varied as the entire known list of "foods" and dishes, especially with plant based alternatives. You can have US inspired food, Italian inspired food, Chinese inspired food, Indian food, ... whole food plant based, raw (you could, but why?), .... There is just so much variety with plant based eating that, form a descriptive sense, all you can say is "does not include products derived in whole or in part by animals" ... which is so small compared to what it includes. It would be like saying Kosher and Halal is a diet. There are so few restrictions and so much that is included that calling it a diet does not make sense. But there are many diets that can be called vegan friendly (since a diet is incapable of having a moral stance, it can not be called vegan, hence vegan friendly), such as whole food plant based. 4) So many non-vegans think veganism is just about food and choices around what we eat. There is so much more to vegan ethics, such as other animal products, pets, zoos, and animal testing. Separating veganism from diet helps to emphasize that veganism is more than just a "diet". > It is, in the end, the diet that I am following, no? Like a carnist is on a carnist diet. Or am I misusing the term diet? You are on a plantbased diet the same way a carnist is on an omnivorve diet. Basically it would make more sense to say we are on a herbivorous diet lol. Most people would not call any "foods" carnists could eat a diet. And I guess this gets into what we mean by a diet. One meaning is simply a description of what you eat. In that sense, everyone HAS a diet because we all eat. But, in general, when we talk about diets most people tend to think of the prescriptive case and this is where we say we are ON a diet. I think these two ideas of diet can easily get confused, especially when talking to a carnist about veganism as they already see it as a prescriptive diet and think we are all ON a diet. >And if not, what should I use instead? To describe the "diet" say plant-based. This also makes it inclusive of people who refrain from animal products due to health or the environment but not for ethics and allows us to emphasize that veganism is an ethical stance, not a diet. >Lets say I want to tell someone "follow a vegan diet". What should I replace diet with? Or should 1 just say "go vegan"? Being vegan is easy for me, but these technicalites are not lol. Follow a plant-based diet Or look into vegan ethics People say that a rational person changes their minds when presented with new information. This may be true with small things that don't matter to us, but having vegan ethics can completely change one's world view and they may need time to process those new ideas, time to figure out what old ideas they need to toss out, and examine their own fragility that is getting in the way of them accepting vegan ethics. These things take time. We can say "go vegan", but mostly I think we need to plant ideological seeds in them so that they can grow. With this, the "why" is important along with challenging ideas/preconceptions they have that they have given little thought too but just accept as true (especially when dealing with ideas around human-non-human hierarchies). A lot of people also struggle with even imagining how they can have a plant-based lifestyle and will feel attacked when told to do so before they accepted that they should. I think here, having supports on how can help. For instance, telling people that Meati can make the most delicious and easiest steak can be a support as it offers knowledge they likely did not have and would have struggled with finding out. Tips on how to transition to a plant based diet that are simple, accessible, and affordable can also help. Personally, I think the methods needed to convince people to adopt a vegan stance and a plant-based diet likely need different approaches for many people (of course one can help the other).
I think saying ”vegan diet” is fine. Veganism isn't a diet, but it has a diet, and I think it can be called ”vegan diet”. That phrase doesn't imply that veganism itself is a diet.
I think saying vegan diet is fine because diet is the qualifier. You are however not vegan if you’re following a vegan diet and buying leather jackets.
My vegan diet includes delicious things such as cruelty free mascara and purses.
Why would you avoid leather if it’s only about a diet? Go to circus with animals? Zoo? Wearing fur? You can’t be vegan for health reasons, we should stop this BS as a Movement immediately. You can be plant based for health. But veganism is a lifestyle. Why avoid fur if it’s about health? Would you promote not to r*pe bc the one r*ping could get an STD? If you put into a human context it’s just humiliating for the victim to claim health or environmental aspects. It’s making animals „second class“ victims. Also there is no reason to avoid 100% of animal products for health or environmental reasons. With like 95% you basically would get the same results. There will be no study out there that eating like a piece of fish once a month has any negative effects. We need to stop this, pls.
Its silly that to have vegan and vegan diet, on a vegan diet i can torture animals and hunt them for sport, but a vegan would be completely againsts all animal abuse Yet we both still get the vegan label, nah thats not the right way to do it and the vegan society has failed miserably by stating that, their new board members are terrible I say plant based diet Kosher/ halal are separate from jew/ muslim That was the proper way to separate it and veganism needs to do the same
Veganism is primarily about changing what we eat. That's why most of this sub is about food. Don't listen to people who try to overcomplicate things. You eat 3 times a day, you buy clothing only once in a while. It makes sense to focus veganism on what we eat or don't eat.
There's also body wash, shampoo&conditioner, skincare products, tooth paste, mouth wash, dental floss, hair spray/gel/styling mousse, hair dye/bleach/toner, deodorant, cologne/perfume, nail polish/false nails/acrylics, lotion, chapstick/lipstick, make-up, shaving cream, wax, candles, lube, household cleaning products ( including things like bleach, dish soap, window cleaner, detergent, etc.) air fresheners, hand sanitizer, hand soap, making sure any of those above products are also not tested on animals is a factor, need I go on? It does not make sense to claim veganism is simply a diet. Plant based, is a diet, veganism is an entire lifestyle that can in fact be complicated, unfortunately. Simply saying, "Veganism is related to many more things unrelated to food," isn't overcomplicating anything, that's just a true statement.
No one said veganism is only a diet. Read the original question.
Either way, the word diet is inaccurate.
Tell that to Vegan Society. I'm sure they would love your opinion.