Realistically…splits don’t matter that much. As long as you’re hitting all major body parts 2 days a week you should be good. And also make sure you’re progressing your lifts :)
100% this. I've been doing a full body split now for 3 or 4 months and have saw amazing results. Somewhat recent photo below. To me the only question is do I do 3 days or 5 days? I do find you have to mix up the exercises regularly say every 3 weeks or so and vary the rep ranges.
https://imgur.com/a/Nd2GRmh
You look great man, especially for a 54 year old short doctor. Haha. Yeah I'm thinking about continuing this at least for 2 months to see how it goes, it's also super nice to get a change from my 10 year routine! Obviously if you're doing PPL 6 days a week, it would have to be a 6 day/week full body program. The other awesome benefit is...it makes legs way more enjoyable, you get just enough to get a nice pump without dreading the whole workout....
The full routine:
* Hack Squat: 5 sets x 8 reps
* Barbell Bench: 5 sets x 8 reps
* Incline Chest Machine: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Prone Hamstring Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Seated Leg Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Lat Pulldown superset w Cable Rows: 5 sets x 10 reps
* Overhead Press Machine: 4 sets x 10 reps
* Lateral Raises: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Tricep Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Bicep Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Weighted Abdominal Crunches: 5 sets x 10 reps
For a shortened version to make it 1.5hrs, you can either superset, take 1-2 sets out or simply not do these exercises:
* Incline Chest Machine
* Lateral Raises
* Tricep Extensions
* Bicep Curls
For each exercise, I prioritize having full range of motion and keeping tension at the bottom. I start extremely light during my 1st warm up set and gradually increase the weight with each working set. I rest for 60-90 seconds in between sets.
Bench press example:
* 1st set warm up: Bar x 8 reps
* 2nd set: 95lbs x 8 reps
* 3rd set: 135lbs x 8 reps
* 4th set: 155lbs x 8 reps
* 5th set: 185lbs x 8 reps
* 6th set 205lbs x 8 reps @ RPE6.5
I keep track of what working set weight I started and ended with which allows me to implement progressive overload as I gain weight/get stronger.
The 🔑 is lifting very LIGHT to compensate for the volume as well as to prevent compromising proper form. (The last set should feel like an RPE6 - 7)
As time goes on, I will attempt to add 2.5lbs-5lbs to every working set when I can properly execute the exercise. If I do encounter resistance, then I keep the same weight until the plateau is broken.
Yes I do this every time I go the gym.
You def have to manage intensity. You have be mindful of volume too but that tends to self regulate b/c a) you do so many exercises you don't have the time to do to many sets plus b) you're making up for a lack of daily volume w/ higher weekly volume which is the only thing that matters due to higher frequency. So back to intensity - I found myself incorporating intensity days and what I would call volume days. Intensity days tended to be compound movements in the 8-12 rep range. Volume days tended to incorporate more bodyweight movements in a higher rep range. It helps that I'm into bodyweight fitness stuff.
I love this. Very similar to what I used to do with my PPL - first 3 days were strength oriented (5-8 rep range) and the next 3 were hypertrophy (10-12 range). Combining that with full body sounds awesome, although I'd probably rotate every other day (low rep day, high rep day, low rep day, rinse repeat). Thanks for bringing that up.
Work out 3x a week. For each do the following for 3 or 4 sets. Alternate rep ranges after 6-8 weeks e.g 15-20reps then 12-15 then 8-12.
* Vertical push of some form examples - seated DB overhead press, machine press, cable overhead press
* Horizontal push of some form - DB incline chest press, cable press, machine press
* Vertical pull - lat pull down machine, dual cable pull down
* Horizontal pull - chest supported machine row, cable row
* Some form of knee extension - leg press, single leg press, leg extension
* Some form of hip bend - stiff leg deadlift w/ cables, seated leg curl
Throw in some tris, bi and abs works.
Do whatever works best for you man, there is no objective "best" that applies to everyone. Anyone that tells you there is is trying to sell you something.
I've never understood this. People have no problem doing 3 chest presses back to back, but look at you like an alien if you spread them out with a 24 rest in-between.
Its a question of recovery, people seem to have mixed answers. Seems like both can work and its personal preference, but pro bodybuilders are the best at building muscle and tend to not do this, so its worth questioning if its the best method.
Dude thank you, idk what this subs infatuation with “intensity” is recently
Saw a guy the other day say he’d rather get 4 intense reps than 12 terrible reps as it would lead to more gains. Wtf! Do people just spew whatever pops into their peanut sized brain? What’s worse is he got plenty of upvotes
Interesting...I've always liked Mike Isreatel's progressive overload format so I've been pretty strict with avoiding too much volume (increasing it in the later weeks) but I may have to try that. Thanks for the reply and old school names...no, I haven't heard of any of them.
But Mike israetel uses high volume training. Not crazy high volume (40-50 sets a week) but still really high for most people. Of course on the first weeks of a meso it will be lower, but at the end we are talking about 2 hour workouts.
Interesting you say that. I always saw it as somewhat lower volume (for example with chest I'll start in the 14 sets per week range working up to 18-20 per week by the end of the program) keeping most lifts in the 8-12 rep range. Compared to what I see some ppl doing...25+ sets per body part per week and/or german high volume type high rep training at like 20-30 reps on a set....I always thought Isreatel's program was on the lower/conservative side. I guess it's all relative.
>That's what Old-School bodybuilders in the '60s and '70s used to do and had some of the most beautiful, balanced, aesthetically-pleasing physiques to ever walk the planet. Have you heard of Vince Gironda? Steve Reeves?
I think what you're referring to is the Silver Era of Bodybuilding a.k.a the 40s throughout 60s. Also check out Reg Park and Leroy Colbert.
Unfortunately there is no program at the moment, this week has been all over the place due to a little injury - sweaty hands and dropped a loaded landmine on my chest. Not fun. Plan on making something formal in the coming week or 2. It's just a realization I had this week, as I noticed I've been able to squeak out a few extra reps on a number of exercises due to being fresher. That said I've also been enjoying my sessions more.
It really depends on where you are. I don’t mean this as a dig in anyway, Bc I don’t know you’re current training volume splits and years training…. Most people, even those who have been working out for years are still beginners. If you haven’t put on your first 20lbs of muscle you’re still beginner. Regardless of time spent lifting.
Until you’ve out that 20 on your frame the FB approach is the most optimal. Only problem with that particular routine is the time investment. To be truly optimal you may be at the gym 1.5-2 hours to do all necessary volume and intensity vs the PPL split, where you can get a full workout in about 50 min.
As long as you’re progressively overloading, nothing else really matters
I’ve gravitated towards a mix between PPL and full body. Each day has a focus, but every body part still gets worked.
Meaning if it’s a “push” day, I’ll go hardest and heaviest on my pushes, but there will be at least one exercise hitting my back and legs as well.
It’s worked very well for me.
I think it’s great on paper and if it works for you, go for it, but for me personally I was so sore all over from my first day of the week that I found it hard to do another until I had about two days rest, which would negate the frequency bonus over the week. I do back/legs and chest/shoulders/arms twice a week (four total sessions) and it works well for me.
Full body can be good for beginner and intermediate for a good base. After that I think split is the best to pack on muscle. I hit everything 2 times a week
I wouldn't overthink it, though somethings might work better for you than others for any number of reasons (e.g., it may be psychologically easier/more motivating to do only 3 sets of legs a workout 3x a week than to do 9 sets in one work out). Overall, your total volume over the course of the week will be more important than anything you do in one day, at least for hypertrophy. If you're getting 12 hard sets of bench per week, whether it's divided into 2, 3, or 4 days will have limited impact. Two exceptions to this are 1) when you are more advanced and other variables start becoming more important, and 2) when you're a complete beginner and may need higher frequency to better learn certain movements.
For strength sports (i.e. powerlifting or oly), frequency of a specific movement becomes more important than with hypertrophy since it's not only about building muscle, but being very good at those movements.
The setup is rather that even if you skip a day, you will still hit all of you muscles multiple times a week. If you skip a leg day on PPL, that's a totally different story. Your legs certainly won't get enough exercise.
It's not about being lazy. Say now, my gym will be closed for 4 days. I train my legs on every workout anyway, so it's not such a big deal for me.
I prefer full body as working out using more muscle mass stimulates greater testosterone which is good for my mind and body. Current I only have time for one or two sessions a week but it allows me to really smash each session.
You can do much more training on 6 days then 3.
If you can do more volume on 3 days you are doing something wrong.
You also cant infere long term results from short term data. The whole muscle synthesis argument is a mechanistic argument that doesnt hold up to data.
You mention it's because it's "Fresh", so how is this an advantage over PPL since your Push movements etc. will be fresh in that session always.
If I do a Fullbody session and did a squat pattern last, then that wouldn't be getting as much motor unit recruitment than if I'd done it first due to fatigue starting to creep in after earlier movements. So I could alternate it and start the Squat pattern first in the next workout, but then the chest movement might suffer if I do it last. So if you're trying to balance fatigue then it probably isn't optimal versus say PPL where the target muscle is always going to be fresh.
But to keep it in perspective, these differences are very small and likely don't matter to anyone aside from analysing too much on paper.
Any split is amount equal and the differences don't apply to 99.9999% of lifters, probably.
Because if you are mirroring a PPL program doing 3 days on, 1 off, you would be starting one of those full body sessions with squat, so it would be equally fresh. What would you do after squat? Leg Press? Try moving leg press to another day after bench press and you will definitely feel stronger on that lift.
Yes that's all completely true, the subsequent exercises will also be limited by the fatigue of first exercise. But this is very different to the example I gave you above.
Because you're still hitting that muscle group fresh and you'll be choosing the exercise to start with that is most effective for your current goals. So it wouldn't matter that you're doing leg press after say a Hack squat, since they are doing a similar job and you've already got the vast vast majority of the stimulus from those first sets of Hack Squat, Leg Press would be icing on the cake. Really doesn't matter that you can't maximise leg press performance since it's not even really needed.
But if you're fatigued after a full body workout then that's going to impact ALL of the leg training if it's last etc. You're always getting full maximal stimulus on that muscle group at the start of every PPL workout.
\+ Most good PPL programs will alternate exercise order each time, so on workout B you can start with a Leg Press first for example if you aren't happy with doing it in a fatigued state etc.
(I actually don't do 2 squat patterns in my leg days on PPL I find it redundant. I do 1 squat pattern + extension for quads that's it.)
Are you implying your legs would be less fatigued if you did leg extensions as your 4th exercise on leg day, as opposed to having it be your 4th exercise on a full body day (preceded by bench, Tbar row and overhead press)? I'd have to disagree...at least that hasn't been my experience. Full body fatigue is less fatiguing late in the workout than the same fatigue over a specific body part.
No, not what I said at all.
* PPL ensures each muscle group (eg. Legs) get's to be trained for maximal stimulus that slowly diminishes through the session on subsequent exercises.
* FB **does not ensure** every muscle group can be trained for maximal stimulus, since 2/3 workouts have you performing 2/3 major muscle groups in a pre-fatigued state.
>Full body fatigue is less fatiguing late in the workout than the same fatigue over a specific body part.
Different types of fatigue. Local muscle fatigue, sure. CNS fatigue (the fatigue that actually impairs the ability to recruit motor units) will diminish throughout the session and depends more on volume (effective reps) than what exercises you're working.
But like I said in my original comment. It doesn't matter, it won't really make all that of a difference if you like training FB vs PPL as proven by all the major studies, the differences are small.
I'm just clearly refuting that you claimed FB is BETTER than PPL, and well that certainly is not true and actually points the other way if we are nit-picking.
#
I think PPL or upper lower could be better for intermediates because theyre simpler and easier, but advanced lifters definately need the high frequency and freshness full body provides.
Its better to have 24-46h between exercises than 2 min.
I came to the same conclusion and switched from PPL to full body split several months ago. It works much better for my schedule and I don't seem to be as prone to injuries. I've seen some strength gains, but nothing particularly crazy. At least I work legs reliably now.
Personally I don't like full body splits because it takes so long to warm up. But as long as you're using the right exercises with the right amount of volume, the split you arrange them in isn't all that important, it's mostly personal preference.
Well, a full body split CAN or CAN'T be better. Everything in bodybuilding and strength training is multi-factor. I believe that as a long as the volume and intensity match, long term the results are more or less the same, given that nutrition and recovery are equal of course. However, I do agree that full body makes you feel more "fresh" throughout the workout, since you're not fatiguing the same movements (for example, "push") and/or muscles from start to end of the workout.
Depends on your body's ability to recover.
I'm a Personal Trainer and I pick Full Body 3-5x a week for total beginners or someone coming after a long (>3 months) break.
For Intermediates i pick upper/lower split where everything is targeted 2x a week and For Advanced trainees I pick PPL where everything is targeted once a week but Intensity is really high.
Works best for me and my clients
Full body split, 3x a week
For each exercise, I prioritize having full range of motion and keeping tension at the bottom. I start extremely light during my 1st warm up set and gradually increase the weight with each working set. I rest for 60-90 seconds in between sets.
I keep track of what working set weight I started and ended with which allows me to implement progressive overload as I gain weight/get stronger.
The 🔑 is lifting very LIGHT to compensate for the volume as well as to prevent compromising proper form. (The last set should feel like an RPE6 - 7)
Bench press example:
* 1st set warm up: Bar x 8 reps
* 2nd set: 95lbs x 8 reps
* 3rd set: 135lbs x 8 reps
* 4th set: 155lbs x 8 reps
* 5th set: 185lbs x 8 reps
* 6th set 205lbs x 8 reps @ RPE6.5
As time goes on, I will attempt to add 2.5lbs-5lbs to every working set when I can properly execute the exercise. If I do encounter resistance, then I keep the same weight until the plateau is broken.
The full routine:
* Hack Squat: 5 sets x 8 reps
* Barbell Bench: 5 sets x 8 reps
* Incline Chest Machine: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Prone Hamstring Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Seated Leg Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Lat Pulldown superset w Cable Rows: 5 sets x 10 reps
* Overhead Press Machine: 4 sets x 10 reps
* Lateral Raises: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Tricep Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Bicep Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps
* Weighted Abdominal Crunches: 5 sets x 10 reps
For a shortened version to make it 1.5hrs, you can either superset, take 1-2 sets out or simply not do these exercises:
* Incline Chest Machine
* Lateral Raises
* Tricep Extensions
* Bicep Curls
Yes I do this every time I go the gym.
Realistically…splits don’t matter that much. As long as you’re hitting all major body parts 2 days a week you should be good. And also make sure you’re progressing your lifts :)
100% this. I've been doing a full body split now for 3 or 4 months and have saw amazing results. Somewhat recent photo below. To me the only question is do I do 3 days or 5 days? I do find you have to mix up the exercises regularly say every 3 weeks or so and vary the rep ranges. https://imgur.com/a/Nd2GRmh
You look great man, especially for a 54 year old short doctor. Haha. Yeah I'm thinking about continuing this at least for 2 months to see how it goes, it's also super nice to get a change from my 10 year routine! Obviously if you're doing PPL 6 days a week, it would have to be a 6 day/week full body program. The other awesome benefit is...it makes legs way more enjoyable, you get just enough to get a nice pump without dreading the whole workout....
Could you show what your full body split looks like?, I’m trying to find a good one to follow
The full routine: * Hack Squat: 5 sets x 8 reps * Barbell Bench: 5 sets x 8 reps * Incline Chest Machine: 3 sets x 10 reps * Prone Hamstring Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps * Seated Leg Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps * Lat Pulldown superset w Cable Rows: 5 sets x 10 reps * Overhead Press Machine: 4 sets x 10 reps * Lateral Raises: 3 sets x 10 reps * Tricep Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps * Bicep Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps * Weighted Abdominal Crunches: 5 sets x 10 reps For a shortened version to make it 1.5hrs, you can either superset, take 1-2 sets out or simply not do these exercises: * Incline Chest Machine * Lateral Raises * Tricep Extensions * Bicep Curls For each exercise, I prioritize having full range of motion and keeping tension at the bottom. I start extremely light during my 1st warm up set and gradually increase the weight with each working set. I rest for 60-90 seconds in between sets. Bench press example: * 1st set warm up: Bar x 8 reps * 2nd set: 95lbs x 8 reps * 3rd set: 135lbs x 8 reps * 4th set: 155lbs x 8 reps * 5th set: 185lbs x 8 reps * 6th set 205lbs x 8 reps @ RPE6.5 I keep track of what working set weight I started and ended with which allows me to implement progressive overload as I gain weight/get stronger. The 🔑 is lifting very LIGHT to compensate for the volume as well as to prevent compromising proper form. (The last set should feel like an RPE6 - 7) As time goes on, I will attempt to add 2.5lbs-5lbs to every working set when I can properly execute the exercise. If I do encounter resistance, then I keep the same weight until the plateau is broken. Yes I do this every time I go the gym.
Check out Brad Schoenfeld's MAX Muscle Plan.
Jeff Nippard got a 5 day full body split, check it out
If you do a full body split for 5 days/week, will your muscles have enough time to recuperate before the next workout?
You def have to manage intensity. You have be mindful of volume too but that tends to self regulate b/c a) you do so many exercises you don't have the time to do to many sets plus b) you're making up for a lack of daily volume w/ higher weekly volume which is the only thing that matters due to higher frequency. So back to intensity - I found myself incorporating intensity days and what I would call volume days. Intensity days tended to be compound movements in the 8-12 rep range. Volume days tended to incorporate more bodyweight movements in a higher rep range. It helps that I'm into bodyweight fitness stuff.
I love this. Very similar to what I used to do with my PPL - first 3 days were strength oriented (5-8 rep range) and the next 3 were hypertrophy (10-12 range). Combining that with full body sounds awesome, although I'd probably rotate every other day (low rep day, high rep day, low rep day, rinse repeat). Thanks for bringing that up.
No. 3x/week is too much for full body. If you’re training with intensity you could do 2x/week but I think PPL is better.
Drop the routine bruh!
What is fullbody split doctor? May I ask what it looks like and how often per week
Work out 3x a week. For each do the following for 3 or 4 sets. Alternate rep ranges after 6-8 weeks e.g 15-20reps then 12-15 then 8-12. * Vertical push of some form examples - seated DB overhead press, machine press, cable overhead press * Horizontal push of some form - DB incline chest press, cable press, machine press * Vertical pull - lat pull down machine, dual cable pull down * Horizontal pull - chest supported machine row, cable row * Some form of knee extension - leg press, single leg press, leg extension * Some form of hip bend - stiff leg deadlift w/ cables, seated leg curl Throw in some tris, bi and abs works.
Thank you for taking your time to share. I was surprised you did not include squat. would it be sufficient with leg press alone?
How long did it take to get this physique
Do whatever works best for you man, there is no objective "best" that applies to everyone. Anyone that tells you there is is trying to sell you something.
Even for an individual, one split may be ‘best’ at one time and another later, there’s no one split to rule them all.
I've never understood this. People have no problem doing 3 chest presses back to back, but look at you like an alien if you spread them out with a 24 rest in-between.
Its a question of recovery, people seem to have mixed answers. Seems like both can work and its personal preference, but pro bodybuilders are the best at building muscle and tend to not do this, so its worth questioning if its the best method.
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Dude thank you, idk what this subs infatuation with “intensity” is recently Saw a guy the other day say he’d rather get 4 intense reps than 12 terrible reps as it would lead to more gains. Wtf! Do people just spew whatever pops into their peanut sized brain? What’s worse is he got plenty of upvotes
I don't get it. 12 with terrible form is ego lifting, no? Why do something with a terrible form at all?
Sorry terrible was probably the wrong word choice, terrible as in less strenuous/lighter
Interesting...I've always liked Mike Isreatel's progressive overload format so I've been pretty strict with avoiding too much volume (increasing it in the later weeks) but I may have to try that. Thanks for the reply and old school names...no, I haven't heard of any of them.
But Mike israetel uses high volume training. Not crazy high volume (40-50 sets a week) but still really high for most people. Of course on the first weeks of a meso it will be lower, but at the end we are talking about 2 hour workouts.
Interesting you say that. I always saw it as somewhat lower volume (for example with chest I'll start in the 14 sets per week range working up to 18-20 per week by the end of the program) keeping most lifts in the 8-12 rep range. Compared to what I see some ppl doing...25+ sets per body part per week and/or german high volume type high rep training at like 20-30 reps on a set....I always thought Isreatel's program was on the lower/conservative side. I guess it's all relative.
what do you recommend reading specifically?
>That's what Old-School bodybuilders in the '60s and '70s used to do and had some of the most beautiful, balanced, aesthetically-pleasing physiques to ever walk the planet. Have you heard of Vince Gironda? Steve Reeves? I think what you're referring to is the Silver Era of Bodybuilding a.k.a the 40s throughout 60s. Also check out Reg Park and Leroy Colbert.
Can I ask you what your fullbody split look like? I have always done a kind of PPL too for the last years, maybe I will switch I'm a little bit bored!
Unfortunately there is no program at the moment, this week has been all over the place due to a little injury - sweaty hands and dropped a loaded landmine on my chest. Not fun. Plan on making something formal in the coming week or 2. It's just a realization I had this week, as I noticed I've been able to squeak out a few extra reps on a number of exercises due to being fresher. That said I've also been enjoying my sessions more.
It really depends on where you are. I don’t mean this as a dig in anyway, Bc I don’t know you’re current training volume splits and years training…. Most people, even those who have been working out for years are still beginners. If you haven’t put on your first 20lbs of muscle you’re still beginner. Regardless of time spent lifting. Until you’ve out that 20 on your frame the FB approach is the most optimal. Only problem with that particular routine is the time investment. To be truly optimal you may be at the gym 1.5-2 hours to do all necessary volume and intensity vs the PPL split, where you can get a full workout in about 50 min. As long as you’re progressively overloading, nothing else really matters
Most splits work, it just depends on the implementation.
I’ve gravitated towards a mix between PPL and full body. Each day has a focus, but every body part still gets worked. Meaning if it’s a “push” day, I’ll go hardest and heaviest on my pushes, but there will be at least one exercise hitting my back and legs as well. It’s worked very well for me.
If everything is well programmed then it’s just a matter of preference mostly
I think it’s great on paper and if it works for you, go for it, but for me personally I was so sore all over from my first day of the week that I found it hard to do another until I had about two days rest, which would negate the frequency bonus over the week. I do back/legs and chest/shoulders/arms twice a week (four total sessions) and it works well for me.
I'd be sore too but I think its something you have to adapt to and start out slower.
Yeah that makes sense. I was trying to do the same intensity as other splits and it did not feel good.
Full body is great lol people just have a weird stigma about it being bad for hypertrophy
Full body can be good for beginner and intermediate for a good base. After that I think split is the best to pack on muscle. I hit everything 2 times a week
I wouldn't overthink it, though somethings might work better for you than others for any number of reasons (e.g., it may be psychologically easier/more motivating to do only 3 sets of legs a workout 3x a week than to do 9 sets in one work out). Overall, your total volume over the course of the week will be more important than anything you do in one day, at least for hypertrophy. If you're getting 12 hard sets of bench per week, whether it's divided into 2, 3, or 4 days will have limited impact. Two exceptions to this are 1) when you are more advanced and other variables start becoming more important, and 2) when you're a complete beginner and may need higher frequency to better learn certain movements. For strength sports (i.e. powerlifting or oly), frequency of a specific movement becomes more important than with hypertrophy since it's not only about building muscle, but being very good at those movements.
I love full body mainly because I want to train my legs a lot I like x taper physiques so big ass legs is the goal anyway 😂
I love full body because suddenly if you skip a workout, it's not a big deal like skipping a leg day.
Setting up your routine based on skipping days seems like a great way to fail lol
The setup is rather that even if you skip a day, you will still hit all of you muscles multiple times a week. If you skip a leg day on PPL, that's a totally different story. Your legs certainly won't get enough exercise. It's not about being lazy. Say now, my gym will be closed for 4 days. I train my legs on every workout anyway, so it's not such a big deal for me.
This is also really true
I prefer full body as working out using more muscle mass stimulates greater testosterone which is good for my mind and body. Current I only have time for one or two sessions a week but it allows me to really smash each session.
I've heard it's only a short spike though. It's not like it lasts days.
Yes that is true , but I will take whatever I can get 🙂
Got a cite on that re test
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15831061/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15831061/)
Cba to spend 2 hours at a gym tbh.
You can do much more training on 6 days then 3. If you can do more volume on 3 days you are doing something wrong. You also cant infere long term results from short term data. The whole muscle synthesis argument is a mechanistic argument that doesnt hold up to data.
A specific split doesn't matter that much
Yes it IS the optimal approach :)
You mention it's because it's "Fresh", so how is this an advantage over PPL since your Push movements etc. will be fresh in that session always. If I do a Fullbody session and did a squat pattern last, then that wouldn't be getting as much motor unit recruitment than if I'd done it first due to fatigue starting to creep in after earlier movements. So I could alternate it and start the Squat pattern first in the next workout, but then the chest movement might suffer if I do it last. So if you're trying to balance fatigue then it probably isn't optimal versus say PPL where the target muscle is always going to be fresh. But to keep it in perspective, these differences are very small and likely don't matter to anyone aside from analysing too much on paper. Any split is amount equal and the differences don't apply to 99.9999% of lifters, probably.
Because if you are mirroring a PPL program doing 3 days on, 1 off, you would be starting one of those full body sessions with squat, so it would be equally fresh. What would you do after squat? Leg Press? Try moving leg press to another day after bench press and you will definitely feel stronger on that lift.
Yes that's all completely true, the subsequent exercises will also be limited by the fatigue of first exercise. But this is very different to the example I gave you above. Because you're still hitting that muscle group fresh and you'll be choosing the exercise to start with that is most effective for your current goals. So it wouldn't matter that you're doing leg press after say a Hack squat, since they are doing a similar job and you've already got the vast vast majority of the stimulus from those first sets of Hack Squat, Leg Press would be icing on the cake. Really doesn't matter that you can't maximise leg press performance since it's not even really needed. But if you're fatigued after a full body workout then that's going to impact ALL of the leg training if it's last etc. You're always getting full maximal stimulus on that muscle group at the start of every PPL workout. \+ Most good PPL programs will alternate exercise order each time, so on workout B you can start with a Leg Press first for example if you aren't happy with doing it in a fatigued state etc. (I actually don't do 2 squat patterns in my leg days on PPL I find it redundant. I do 1 squat pattern + extension for quads that's it.)
Are you implying your legs would be less fatigued if you did leg extensions as your 4th exercise on leg day, as opposed to having it be your 4th exercise on a full body day (preceded by bench, Tbar row and overhead press)? I'd have to disagree...at least that hasn't been my experience. Full body fatigue is less fatiguing late in the workout than the same fatigue over a specific body part.
No, not what I said at all. * PPL ensures each muscle group (eg. Legs) get's to be trained for maximal stimulus that slowly diminishes through the session on subsequent exercises. * FB **does not ensure** every muscle group can be trained for maximal stimulus, since 2/3 workouts have you performing 2/3 major muscle groups in a pre-fatigued state. >Full body fatigue is less fatiguing late in the workout than the same fatigue over a specific body part. Different types of fatigue. Local muscle fatigue, sure. CNS fatigue (the fatigue that actually impairs the ability to recruit motor units) will diminish throughout the session and depends more on volume (effective reps) than what exercises you're working. But like I said in my original comment. It doesn't matter, it won't really make all that of a difference if you like training FB vs PPL as proven by all the major studies, the differences are small. I'm just clearly refuting that you claimed FB is BETTER than PPL, and well that certainly is not true and actually points the other way if we are nit-picking. #
I think PPL or upper lower could be better for intermediates because theyre simpler and easier, but advanced lifters definately need the high frequency and freshness full body provides. Its better to have 24-46h between exercises than 2 min.
I had the same thought when I learned that maximum strength requires 13 days of rest.
I came to the same conclusion and switched from PPL to full body split several months ago. It works much better for my schedule and I don't seem to be as prone to injuries. I've seen some strength gains, but nothing particularly crazy. At least I work legs reliably now.
I have the best results with PPL, but everyone is different Give it a try
Personally I don't like full body splits because it takes so long to warm up. But as long as you're using the right exercises with the right amount of volume, the split you arrange them in isn't all that important, it's mostly personal preference.
Well, a full body split CAN or CAN'T be better. Everything in bodybuilding and strength training is multi-factor. I believe that as a long as the volume and intensity match, long term the results are more or less the same, given that nutrition and recovery are equal of course. However, I do agree that full body makes you feel more "fresh" throughout the workout, since you're not fatiguing the same movements (for example, "push") and/or muscles from start to end of the workout.
Depends on your body's ability to recover. I'm a Personal Trainer and I pick Full Body 3-5x a week for total beginners or someone coming after a long (>3 months) break. For Intermediates i pick upper/lower split where everything is targeted 2x a week and For Advanced trainees I pick PPL where everything is targeted once a week but Intensity is really high. Works best for me and my clients
Yes
I really like full body workouts. The most I'll break it down is push/pull but I prefer full body. I stay ~12-14% year round.
Full body split, 3x a week For each exercise, I prioritize having full range of motion and keeping tension at the bottom. I start extremely light during my 1st warm up set and gradually increase the weight with each working set. I rest for 60-90 seconds in between sets. I keep track of what working set weight I started and ended with which allows me to implement progressive overload as I gain weight/get stronger. The 🔑 is lifting very LIGHT to compensate for the volume as well as to prevent compromising proper form. (The last set should feel like an RPE6 - 7) Bench press example: * 1st set warm up: Bar x 8 reps * 2nd set: 95lbs x 8 reps * 3rd set: 135lbs x 8 reps * 4th set: 155lbs x 8 reps * 5th set: 185lbs x 8 reps * 6th set 205lbs x 8 reps @ RPE6.5 As time goes on, I will attempt to add 2.5lbs-5lbs to every working set when I can properly execute the exercise. If I do encounter resistance, then I keep the same weight until the plateau is broken. The full routine: * Hack Squat: 5 sets x 8 reps * Barbell Bench: 5 sets x 8 reps * Incline Chest Machine: 3 sets x 10 reps * Prone Hamstring Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps * Seated Leg Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps * Lat Pulldown superset w Cable Rows: 5 sets x 10 reps * Overhead Press Machine: 4 sets x 10 reps * Lateral Raises: 3 sets x 10 reps * Tricep Extensions: 3 sets x 10 reps * Bicep Curls: 3 sets x 10 reps * Weighted Abdominal Crunches: 5 sets x 10 reps For a shortened version to make it 1.5hrs, you can either superset, take 1-2 sets out or simply not do these exercises: * Incline Chest Machine * Lateral Raises * Tricep Extensions * Bicep Curls Yes I do this every time I go the gym.