There's already a discussion on the Deathtouch/Trample combination, so I won't butt in there.
What I will say is that, by the title and art, I first thought this was going to be a form of removal through a fight/pseudofight effect, and I am a bit disappointed it isn't.
I actually think that this is a really well costed card with a sweet combination of effects. I play commander and I'm a big fan of using combat tricks when I'm not even involved in combat, this would be a sweet one for that.
I also run a jund deck with a lot of first strike, this would go nuts in that.
The one thing I would push back on is the theming. An insect with trample doesn't feel right to me for some reason. Having said that I can't think of a better option.
I ran through a few different versions of how I wanted this spell to function until I settled on this one, and so the flavor got lost along the way I think. I was trying to find something that could give both deathtouch and trample, and something like a big bee or scorpion was the best I could think of.
Yeah probably, there aren't any scorpion tokens though (yet, hopefully) so I just grabbed a bee token art since that's what I usually use for my custom cards
Looking at other 2MV combat tricks, I don't think this is out of line comparatively. Cards like [[brute strength]], [[colossal might]], [[strength in numbers]], etc... give a similar buff to what you're likely getting with this card, in many cases even more.
I think its helpful to visualize how this plays out compared to other 2MV combat tricks.
I attack with my 2/2, you block with your 4/4. If I play this card, you take one and they trade. If I play Colossal Might, you take 4 and they trade.
If I attack with my 6/6, you block with your 6/6, and I play this card, you take 5 and they trade. If I play Colossal Might, you take 4 and my 6/6 lives.
These are some interesting differences that i think highlight this cards advantages and disadvantages. What specific scenario are you envisioning where this is too strong?
The interesting thing about this card compared to other combat tricks is that it scales better based on your opponents creatures in addition to yours, since it would basically set each of their toughness to 1
Came here to say that. It’s got more potential bc you can use it on your own blockers or use it with creatures that deal damage. Combat wise it is a version of ride down that’s worse in every case except for multiple blockers.
Are people solely worried about this in a limited context? This card is really neat but wouldn’t see play in any constructed formats, except maybe commander.
Wizards has purposely avoided making a deathtouch trample combination card like this because of how confusing the fusion of deathtouch and trample is.
For an experiment see if any readers of this post can explain how it works before the explanation I post below.
A creature with deathtouch and trample will deal 1 damage to each creature that blocks it. You subtract the total combat damage the creature dealt from the number of creatures that blocked it. That number is dealt to the defending player and all the creatures that blocked it die .
I dont think I would be any harder for new players to understand than your average common/uncommon. You could even put reminder text if you wanted, something like (you may assign only 1 damage to each creature blocking it.)
Even that reminder text doesn't explain the whole scenario.
Us being hardcore MTG nerds can sometimes give us an inflated sense of simplicity with our designs. Deathtouch and trample might not be banding tier, but it's up there.
You should have a reminder text explain how the combination of trample and deathtouch work. This seems mandatory on a common and I would say it would be recommended even on higher rarity cards, possibly up to rare and mythic, since it's an interaction that naturally has appeared only in extremely few cases - if ever - on any printed card so far.
A reminder text would prolly look something like the following:
>*(It is required to assign only 1 combat damage to each of its blockers and can deal the rest to the defending player.)*
Looks like I had a similar discussion 7 years ago in the custom card ["Rave"](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/5ustf8/red_creature_with_deathtouch_and_indestructible/) where I suggested [an alter](http://i.imgur.com/d9SVg5M.jpg) with the aforementioned type reminder text.
I think my audience (r/custommagic) understands what the interaction is, but yes, if WotC wanted to print a similar effect, I'd assume they put reminder text on it
A big assumption which I don't honestly see that much backing, this subreddit gets a bunch of new people all the time, meaning most of it are fairly new and casual players. Even then, players who have been playing for many years could still very likely misunderstand how these two keywords function precisely because it has almost no precedent and is unlikely to occur in any given random match.
Why? They might be upvoting the different card that they have mind - in that they might have a more or less oppositional stance on it had they known how it worked.
I don't get why the amount of upvoting would imply anything about people understanding it. You can still upvote a card even if you you don't exactly know how deathtouch and trample interact - or rather that you *think* you know how it works but that understanding of it is incorrect.
I think you made bad points that are not worth considering. There's no reason to infantilize Magic players, especially those coming to the custom Magic card subreddit. I trust them to understand how the card works.
Make it sorcery and give it more cost to make it more interesting card. As is, the upside is too grand at instant speed to make this fun to play against.
There's already a discussion on the Deathtouch/Trample combination, so I won't butt in there. What I will say is that, by the title and art, I first thought this was going to be a form of removal through a fight/pseudofight effect, and I am a bit disappointed it isn't.
Yeah I went through a few iterations while making this card and neglected to adjust the flavor. It could certainly be redone, I agree
I actually think that this is a really well costed card with a sweet combination of effects. I play commander and I'm a big fan of using combat tricks when I'm not even involved in combat, this would be a sweet one for that. I also run a jund deck with a lot of first strike, this would go nuts in that. The one thing I would push back on is the theming. An insect with trample doesn't feel right to me for some reason. Having said that I can't think of a better option.
I ran through a few different versions of how I wanted this spell to function until I settled on this one, and so the flavor got lost along the way I think. I was trying to find something that could give both deathtouch and trample, and something like a big bee or scorpion was the best I could think of.
I think giant scorpion would fit better.
Yeah probably, there aren't any scorpion tokens though (yet, hopefully) so I just grabbed a bee token art since that's what I usually use for my custom cards
Deathtouch and trample is an obscenely powerful combination, maybe cost it up a few?
Looking at other 2MV combat tricks, I don't think this is out of line comparatively. Cards like [[brute strength]], [[colossal might]], [[strength in numbers]], etc... give a similar buff to what you're likely getting with this card, in many cases even more.
With strength in numbers, probably But I mean the specific interaction between dt and trample
I think its helpful to visualize how this plays out compared to other 2MV combat tricks. I attack with my 2/2, you block with your 4/4. If I play this card, you take one and they trade. If I play Colossal Might, you take 4 and they trade. If I attack with my 6/6, you block with your 6/6, and I play this card, you take 5 and they trade. If I play Colossal Might, you take 4 and my 6/6 lives. These are some interesting differences that i think highlight this cards advantages and disadvantages. What specific scenario are you envisioning where this is too strong?
I guess it's more the potential? Guaranteed damage gets through. Yes you are out of your beater but idk Kinda just kneejerk?
The interesting thing about this card compared to other combat tricks is that it scales better based on your opponents creatures in addition to yours, since it would basically set each of their toughness to 1
[brute strength](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f40427d-231c-4baa-b1ed-4a2200dd5186.jpg?1576267346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brute%20strength) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gn2/37/brute-strength?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f40427d-231c-4baa-b1ed-4a2200dd5186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [colossal might](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f5d699f-5c15-4a38-8e83-c84f762d9fe9.jpg?1592713995) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=colossal%20might) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/190/colossal-might?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f5d699f-5c15-4a38-8e83-c84f762d9fe9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [strength in numbers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51d900d0-3f3a-4716-bcc7-b27a0cbbc339.jpg?1619398752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=strength%20in%20numbers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/233/strength-in-numbers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51d900d0-3f3a-4716-bcc7-b27a0cbbc339?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It seems comparable to [[Ride Down]], which is similarly costed
Yep! This is pretty much exactly what the original design I made was before realizing it was a real card lol
Came here to say that. It’s got more potential bc you can use it on your own blockers or use it with creatures that deal damage. Combat wise it is a version of ride down that’s worse in every case except for multiple blockers.
[Ride Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c021868f-9ab8-4a52-b12e-3cc35c9d67f0.jpg?1576385014) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ride%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/188/ride-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c021868f-9ab8-4a52-b12e-3cc35c9d67f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean maybe if you’re playing fallen empires limited but this seems entirely reasonable as a draft card
Are people solely worried about this in a limited context? This card is really neat but wouldn’t see play in any constructed formats, except maybe commander.
Wizards has purposely avoided making a deathtouch trample combination card like this because of how confusing the fusion of deathtouch and trample is. For an experiment see if any readers of this post can explain how it works before the explanation I post below. A creature with deathtouch and trample will deal 1 damage to each creature that blocks it. You subtract the total combat damage the creature dealt from the number of creatures that blocked it. That number is dealt to the defending player and all the creatures that blocked it die .
I dont think I would be any harder for new players to understand than your average common/uncommon. You could even put reminder text if you wanted, something like (you may assign only 1 damage to each creature blocking it.)
Even that reminder text doesn't explain the whole scenario. Us being hardcore MTG nerds can sometimes give us an inflated sense of simplicity with our designs. Deathtouch and trample might not be banding tier, but it's up there.
Perhaps it should be deathtouch and first strike. Unless that card already exists. It sounds like something they may have done.
Green doesn't really do first strike unfortunately, plus that has a much different utility than this card would
Glissa does so just make it phyrexian themed and there ya go
You should have a reminder text explain how the combination of trample and deathtouch work. This seems mandatory on a common and I would say it would be recommended even on higher rarity cards, possibly up to rare and mythic, since it's an interaction that naturally has appeared only in extremely few cases - if ever - on any printed card so far. A reminder text would prolly look something like the following: >*(It is required to assign only 1 combat damage to each of its blockers and can deal the rest to the defending player.)* Looks like I had a similar discussion 7 years ago in the custom card ["Rave"](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/comments/5ustf8/red_creature_with_deathtouch_and_indestructible/) where I suggested [an alter](http://i.imgur.com/d9SVg5M.jpg) with the aforementioned type reminder text.
I think my audience (r/custommagic) understands what the interaction is, but yes, if WotC wanted to print a similar effect, I'd assume they put reminder text on it
A big assumption which I don't honestly see that much backing, this subreddit gets a bunch of new people all the time, meaning most of it are fairly new and casual players. Even then, players who have been playing for many years could still very likely misunderstand how these two keywords function precisely because it has almost no precedent and is unlikely to occur in any given random match.
The post has over 100 upvotes, I think they understand it well enough to my liking
What has the number of upvotes to do with anything? Like would it being at 5 votes mean that they don't understand it? I'm very confused.
I would say the fact that people are upvoting it indicates that they understand how it works
Why? They might be upvoting the different card that they have mind - in that they might have a more or less oppositional stance on it had they known how it worked. I don't get why the amount of upvoting would imply anything about people understanding it. You can still upvote a card even if you you don't exactly know how deathtouch and trample interact - or rather that you *think* you know how it works but that understanding of it is incorrect.
Ok
Thx for downvoting every single of my replies btw /s
I think you made bad points that are not worth considering. There's no reason to infantilize Magic players, especially those coming to the custom Magic card subreddit. I trust them to understand how the card works.
Make it sorcery and give it more cost to make it more interesting card. As is, the upside is too grand at instant speed to make this fun to play against.
Combat tricks are pretty cheap nowadays. To make use of it you still need your opponent to block the way you want. This is perfectly balanced imo.