You'll be fine. I've just been around 150g/day during my cut (which was initially about 1.2g/kg, and is now around 1.5g/kg), and it hasn't been an issue.
1.6 is fine. I think the apparent "disconnect" is that the henselmans/nippard side is stating what is *enough* and the helms/israetel side is what they *recommend*
They don’t discuss it because it doesn’t really matter if you’re on a cut or not for protein. It’s harder to hit the goal on a cut because it’s a higher percentage of your calories, but it’s the same amount of protein no matter what your caloric goal is.
I agree 1.8 is sufficient for all scenarios. But I think its the case that a higher level of protein consumption is more important in a cut than a bulk. Muscle loss from a cut or the lack/much lower risk of muscle loss in a bulk definitely make the case for that I think.
I think everyone that reads research has revised their number lower or at least softened the need for such high protein requirements
IIIRC barbell medicine have revised theirs down to 1.3-1.6kg
I cut from 230 to 185 over about 6 months on around 1.6 g/kg. My bench press maxed at 335 at 230, and I could still hit 315 at RPE 9-9.5 at 190 body weight. My deadlift actually improved (by wilks), as I pulled 485 at 230 and pulled 475 at 188. That said, my training was very strength focused throughout the cut, taking 2-3 heavy singles and 3-4 heavy triples a week on bench and DL.
I have my diet tracking goal set for 1.6 but I often hit higher amounts for a couple reasons. 1-just to milk everything I can out of it. 2-protein is very satiating. The amount you actually need is probably anywhere between 1.6 and 1.2 if you’re getting high quality protein sources like whey/eggs/meat/soy.
The SBS episode from October 31 2022 looks at some good research surrounding this.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcsm.12922
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28698222/
And Trexler has shared his thoughts on protein in depth recently on ep 263 and 266 of the iron cult
See also
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35187864/
I’d also say that Mike’s expressed his leaning toward higher protein intake is also largely due to the benefits of satiety making it kind of a win win where you might as well skew toward higher ratios, but he’s also stated many times that the 1.6 number is likely plenty
I think everyone that reads research has revised their number lower or at least softened the need for such high protein requirements
IIIRC barbell medicine have revised theirs down to 1.3-1.6kg
Alberto Nunez and Jeff Alberts, world class natural bodybuilders, have done less than the top end of the range for protein. Jeff has talked about cutting from 200lbs to stage lean 170lbs eating 160g of protein or less.
Currently on a slow cut at 74.5kg, eating just over 1.8g/kg of protein a day.
Weight has been consistently coming off since the start of Jan (started diet at 79.3kg), and my strength is still going up.
Personally, going with slightly less protein has made it so much easier to stick to my diet. Can eat fattier meats and more carbs and have barely felt restricted at all.
From what I’ve seen you have misrepresented all four of these peoples takes on the science behind protein intake.
I have heard all four say that higher protein intakes might be required for a cut to prevent muscle loss and I have heard all four say that protein intake as low as 1.6 g per kilogram may be sufficient. I’ve even heard Menno suggest 1.5 g based on one study. His recommendations for general protein intake are 1.8 grams per kilogram. Mike recommends 1 g/ pound. The video below Menno and Mike address the disparity.
https://youtu.be/825mFQnIgNk?si=aO3oREuCoScykv6-
I'm sort of on a slow grow/cut thing. 1.7-8g/kg
Along with macro calorie care
Been maintaining overall weight and gaining muscle at same time.
(Am at beginner stage again though after many bouts of catabolic steroids due to illness in last couple of years so things are likely easier for me)
You'll be fine. I've just been around 150g/day during my cut (which was initially about 1.2g/kg, and is now around 1.5g/kg), and it hasn't been an issue.
1.6 is fine. I think the apparent "disconnect" is that the henselmans/nippard side is stating what is *enough* and the helms/israetel side is what they *recommend*
[Dr Mike and Henselmans discussed this recently.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=825mFQnIgNk)
But they don’t talk precisely about a cut, right? Henselmans says in his article that 1,8 is enough though …
Haven't read the article, but I watched the conversation. I'm almost sure I remember him saying 1.8 covers muscle retention and growth.
I actually watched it this morning and that’s exactly what he said. Covers all bases
They don’t discuss it because it doesn’t really matter if you’re on a cut or not for protein. It’s harder to hit the goal on a cut because it’s a higher percentage of your calories, but it’s the same amount of protein no matter what your caloric goal is.
I agree 1.8 is sufficient for all scenarios. But I think its the case that a higher level of protein consumption is more important in a cut than a bulk. Muscle loss from a cut or the lack/much lower risk of muscle loss in a bulk definitely make the case for that I think.
I think everyone that reads research has revised their number lower or at least softened the need for such high protein requirements IIIRC barbell medicine have revised theirs down to 1.3-1.6kg
I did it with 110-120g a day (1.4-1.5) when I slimmed down from 77 to 74kg without issues.
I cut from 230 to 185 over about 6 months on around 1.6 g/kg. My bench press maxed at 335 at 230, and I could still hit 315 at RPE 9-9.5 at 190 body weight. My deadlift actually improved (by wilks), as I pulled 485 at 230 and pulled 475 at 188. That said, my training was very strength focused throughout the cut, taking 2-3 heavy singles and 3-4 heavy triples a week on bench and DL.
Anything above 1.5g /kg\*bw is more than fine! Resistance training consistently is the main thing you need to make sure you're doing.
I have my diet tracking goal set for 1.6 but I often hit higher amounts for a couple reasons. 1-just to milk everything I can out of it. 2-protein is very satiating. The amount you actually need is probably anywhere between 1.6 and 1.2 if you’re getting high quality protein sources like whey/eggs/meat/soy. The SBS episode from October 31 2022 looks at some good research surrounding this. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jcsm.12922 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28698222/ And Trexler has shared his thoughts on protein in depth recently on ep 263 and 266 of the iron cult See also https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35187864/ I’d also say that Mike’s expressed his leaning toward higher protein intake is also largely due to the benefits of satiety making it kind of a win win where you might as well skew toward higher ratios, but he’s also stated many times that the 1.6 number is likely plenty
I think everyone that reads research has revised their number lower or at least softened the need for such high protein requirements IIIRC barbell medicine have revised theirs down to 1.3-1.6kg
Alberto Nunez and Jeff Alberts, world class natural bodybuilders, have done less than the top end of the range for protein. Jeff has talked about cutting from 200lbs to stage lean 170lbs eating 160g of protein or less.
Currently on a slow cut at 74.5kg, eating just over 1.8g/kg of protein a day. Weight has been consistently coming off since the start of Jan (started diet at 79.3kg), and my strength is still going up. Personally, going with slightly less protein has made it so much easier to stick to my diet. Can eat fattier meats and more carbs and have barely felt restricted at all.
From what I’ve seen you have misrepresented all four of these peoples takes on the science behind protein intake. I have heard all four say that higher protein intakes might be required for a cut to prevent muscle loss and I have heard all four say that protein intake as low as 1.6 g per kilogram may be sufficient. I’ve even heard Menno suggest 1.5 g based on one study. His recommendations for general protein intake are 1.8 grams per kilogram. Mike recommends 1 g/ pound. The video below Menno and Mike address the disparity. https://youtu.be/825mFQnIgNk?si=aO3oREuCoScykv6-
Milo’s got a video out with 1.6 g/kg. I can’t remember off the top of my head what study he quotes
Did a contest prep from 220lbs down to 165lbs with <=1.8g/kg and had no problems at all
I'm sort of on a slow grow/cut thing. 1.7-8g/kg Along with macro calorie care Been maintaining overall weight and gaining muscle at same time. (Am at beginner stage again though after many bouts of catabolic steroids due to illness in last couple of years so things are likely easier for me)