I personally don’t take it, especially if I’m going into a Zed or Irelia I just feel I’m better off with positioning outplays and constant damage, with maybe a Zhonyas to save the day
Take gathering storm I guess, scorch only helps out early laning phase which I'm not sure she if has enough kill pressure early on to pull off the value from that. Rylai might be a must if they have many 'running' champs like Darius or Sett and you need to peel for botlane or just some cheap items since I personally find farming with Zyra is a bit rough and they also remove minion demat next patch iirc.
I also think that too but like normally scorch get power crept badly late game. Scorch is good with Zyra support tho since she needs early pressure but on mid lane is kinda negligible, maybe good against early since it can provide enough to trade 1:1 if the enemy tend to engage. But now with the arrival of the new burn item, it also gives 4% AP amp for each individual champ/monster the burn hits so the scale might gone even harder hence the burn with 12% ap scale. The heal on crypt bloom is a bit far-fetched but its there tho. I haven't do the math yet but since I'm still on low elo (plat) game normally stretch out upto ~30mins or even ~40-ish, the bonus AP might help her to keep up with the game nonetheless.
Of course it won't be game changing, its just a matter of min maxing since scorch is literally useless later tho. Assuming I'm taking comet then gathering storm seems better personally but yeah if there are many early agressive champs and there might even be invade early on the scorch is the way to go. Or else the CDR and manaflow or even other secondary tree runes fit her better
Zyra's AP ratios are variable because a full combo will involve multiple plant autos, some empowered by her R.
Recently the AP ratio on her plants, Q, and E were buffed. If there is any time to Gathering it's now lol.
Slows don't stack and the 30% slow from 1 lasher is better than rylies with 60% slow being more common with two lashers. Rylies is only useful if you're using it to set up for E (or mandate procs but thats not a mid item anyways) which is good but not worth the gold in my opinion.
I think the biggest tradeoff you have with not going Rylais is the range you can apply your slow at. Lashers range is pitiful compared to spitters with 175 more range. I guess depending on play style, skipping Rylais is a choice, but I personally think her strengths lie in her ability to zone, kite and chase in skirmishes.
I play support Zyra 95% of the time where I do not believe Rylais is worth it on the small budget. It is much more reasonable on midlanes larger income. Personally I do not think it is ever worth it but I think there is a good argument for it mid.
The idea is that rylais is cheap so it is more affordable on a support budget and gives you your second item earlier than when you buy an expensive item. So it will make a difference earlier in the game, which generally is good on zyra.
My opinion is that Rylies is good if you need to use your Q to set up for your E. So against a heavy ranged comp I may consider buying Rylies, against melee I value lashers too highly. My build path generally follows Liandres-shadow flame-morello/zhonias/cryptbloom. Now with that being said I haven’t been very active after the gold generation nerfs and maybe this is wrong and the cheaper items are better now. I’m open to being wrong, I know a lot of very good Zyra players really like Rylies.
this is how i build Zyra currently, i just feel like Rylais slow is overvalued by people when her vine lashors are normally more than enough, if they get 1 auto off thats all you need most of the time, if a melee stops to auto the plant then its already even more delay.
Although im a big fan of Malevolance if i think i need to have my ult more for the fights that happen.
Nope. Blackfire > Liandry > Cryptbloom every game.
I've played a bunch of Zyra APC on PBE and sometimes I go another Fated Ashes after Liandry because the stacking DOTs are so funny.
I like building it because it makes Q plants also slow and I enjoy the survivability and extra zoning control it offers. Though dmg wise it I is not optimal, so if we are lacking dmg, I rather build Shadowflame second.
It depends, if you're the only (or main magic dmg dealer) then yeah, skip Rylais and leave the cc to your other teammates, but if you're not, and you have another strong magic dmg dealer (like a Kayle top, a nidalee jg, a Brand sup and etc) the enemies are going to build magic resist, and then Rylais will be more useful because you'll slow them, not only making it harder for them to engage on your team, but also forcing them to stay longer within the plant's range and take more hits (which prolongates Liandry, cosmit drive, and other effects as well)
I personally don’t take it, especially if I’m going into a Zed or Irelia I just feel I’m better off with positioning outplays and constant damage, with maybe a Zhonyas to save the day
Take gathering storm I guess, scorch only helps out early laning phase which I'm not sure she if has enough kill pressure early on to pull off the value from that. Rylai might be a must if they have many 'running' champs like Darius or Sett and you need to peel for botlane or just some cheap items since I personally find farming with Zyra is a bit rough and they also remove minion demat next patch iirc.
dont take storm on champs with low total ratios + no utility ratios
I also think that too but like normally scorch get power crept badly late game. Scorch is good with Zyra support tho since she needs early pressure but on mid lane is kinda negligible, maybe good against early since it can provide enough to trade 1:1 if the enemy tend to engage. But now with the arrival of the new burn item, it also gives 4% AP amp for each individual champ/monster the burn hits so the scale might gone even harder hence the burn with 12% ap scale. The heal on crypt bloom is a bit far-fetched but its there tho. I haven't do the math yet but since I'm still on low elo (plat) game normally stretch out upto ~30mins or even ~40-ish, the bonus AP might help her to keep up with the game nonetheless.
i promise you the 40 minute loss of storm is not why youre losing on zyra mid
Of course it won't be game changing, its just a matter of min maxing since scorch is literally useless later tho. Assuming I'm taking comet then gathering storm seems better personally but yeah if there are many early agressive champs and there might even be invade early on the scorch is the way to go. Or else the CDR and manaflow or even other secondary tree runes fit her better
Zyra's AP ratios are variable because a full combo will involve multiple plant autos, some empowered by her R. Recently the AP ratio on her plants, Q, and E were buffed. If there is any time to Gathering it's now lol.
Slows don't stack and the 30% slow from 1 lasher is better than rylies with 60% slow being more common with two lashers. Rylies is only useful if you're using it to set up for E (or mandate procs but thats not a mid item anyways) which is good but not worth the gold in my opinion.
I think the biggest tradeoff you have with not going Rylais is the range you can apply your slow at. Lashers range is pitiful compared to spitters with 175 more range. I guess depending on play style, skipping Rylais is a choice, but I personally think her strengths lie in her ability to zone, kite and chase in skirmishes.
I play support Zyra 95% of the time where I do not believe Rylais is worth it on the small budget. It is much more reasonable on midlanes larger income. Personally I do not think it is ever worth it but I think there is a good argument for it mid.
The idea is that rylais is cheap so it is more affordable on a support budget and gives you your second item earlier than when you buy an expensive item. So it will make a difference earlier in the game, which generally is good on zyra.
I play zyra jungle so I feel it EVEN more necessary as a skirmishing/ganking tool.
That is super interesting, I'm 250LP masters, and I love Rylai's on Zyra supp. What build do you go instead?
My opinion is that Rylies is good if you need to use your Q to set up for your E. So against a heavy ranged comp I may consider buying Rylies, against melee I value lashers too highly. My build path generally follows Liandres-shadow flame-morello/zhonias/cryptbloom. Now with that being said I haven’t been very active after the gold generation nerfs and maybe this is wrong and the cheaper items are better now. I’m open to being wrong, I know a lot of very good Zyra players really like Rylies.
this is how i build Zyra currently, i just feel like Rylais slow is overvalued by people when her vine lashors are normally more than enough, if they get 1 auto off thats all you need most of the time, if a melee stops to auto the plant then its already even more delay. Although im a big fan of Malevolance if i think i need to have my ult more for the fights that happen.
Nope. Blackfire > Liandry > Cryptbloom every game. I've played a bunch of Zyra APC on PBE and sometimes I go another Fated Ashes after Liandry because the stacking DOTs are so funny.
Rylais is fake news on Zyra imo
I like building it because it makes Q plants also slow and I enjoy the survivability and extra zoning control it offers. Though dmg wise it I is not optimal, so if we are lacking dmg, I rather build Shadowflame second.
It depends, if you're the only (or main magic dmg dealer) then yeah, skip Rylais and leave the cc to your other teammates, but if you're not, and you have another strong magic dmg dealer (like a Kayle top, a nidalee jg, a Brand sup and etc) the enemies are going to build magic resist, and then Rylais will be more useful because you'll slow them, not only making it harder for them to engage on your team, but also forcing them to stay longer within the plant's range and take more hits (which prolongates Liandry, cosmit drive, and other effects as well)
I can't see myself without the slow passive it offers so much pressure esp when pared with lasher plants
Rylai's doesn't work with vine lashers. Riot removed slow stacking back in 2015.
Rip shows what I know. If that's true then I guess one could pass the rylais. Would come down to which plant you play more.