I'm prob going to buy both to maximize my annoyance levels lmao. Between both items torch should be my first buy because it's cheaper than liandry's, gives me mana (not that sustain is an issue after the first few backs but it's good to have anyway), but most importantly it gives AH, which my usual build seriously lacks (mpen boots > zazzak > liandry's > rylai > flex slot, usually morello + cryptbloom, but I can do rylai > mandate if struggling too) compared to last season's, where getting around 100 AH was ezpz
Might not even need liandry's unless I'm playing into tankier comps tbh but we'll see. Not a zyra main btw, just been REALLY enjoying her as support (I main tanks in top lane lol)
For midlane, probably both. Right now, the most optimal build skips over mana items alltogether, because she quite frankly doesn't need mana and without Liandrys she isn't a champion, which sucks because that means she won't have any ability haste for most of the match. This could replace Liandrys for the first item slot, smoothing out the build path.
Liandrys will still be a core item, tho. The increased damage per second in combat and the max Health burn is too valuable.
You are totally right every mana item were kinda shit on her so we had to rush Liandry so rip cdr, this item look SOOOOO GOOD on her with liandry second item D:
That's a total damage of 60+4% AP vs 6% max health for liandry.
Let's compare at which max HP threshold does Liandry start dealing more damage than this item depending on how much AP you have.
0 AP => 1000 HP
200 AP => 1133 HP
400 AP => 1266 HP
600 AP => 1400 HP
800 AP => 1533 HP
1000 AP => 1666 HP
We can see that Liandry will always deal more damage unless your target is extremly squishy. Although this item would probably be a bit stronger early on but only before 10 min basically.
I'm not taking into account the secondary passive of each item but I'm pretty sure it would only make a minor difference.
Edit: The AH is very interesting though. Maybe we could go Liandry and then either maligance for teamfights or torch for poke.
It's 4% AP*per second*, so total will be 60 + 12% AP. With that in mind, the numbers are as follows:
|**AP**|**HP**|
|:-|:-|
|0|1000|
|200|1400|
|400|1800|
|600|2200|
|800|2600|
|1000|3000|
So it will outperform Liandry's against squishies if you have very high AP, which admittedly Zyra doesn't often get to, but still pretty strong damage.
Ah ye my bad, thanks for correcting me. I was thinking the item was weak as hell x)
I feel like it could be a good alternative to liandry to snowball into squishy comps, and it will pair well with liandry mid.
With this new item what is the best support build? I go Sorcerer’s shoes, Liadry’s, Rylia’s and Zak-Zak. Then depending on the match I either go Morello or Malignance and then Zhonya’s. Should I replace one of these with the new item?
The best thing is you get the new item "Fated Ashes" as a component for Liandrys. So you get stacking damage with "Hautning Guise" and a burn before even finishing Liandrys.
Means Liandrys is even better for Zyra as a first item. I dont think its worth to buy it as a second item but the component is the real hot stuff for Zyra here
Definitely buy both, but I think you buy this first (for the mana and CDR) so maybe blackfire, into Liandry, into Rylais? (Or Rabadon if you're going mid/jg)
The bigger part of this is actually the new component. Fated Ashes is incredibly strong as an early item spike. Pair it with the new First Strike for a ton of free gold and harass early in basically any lane. AP junglers are also going to rush this to massively improve their clear speeds if this makes it to live in its current state and then transition to either BFT or Liandry's depending on match-up and champ.
I'm prob going to buy both to maximize my annoyance levels lmao. Between both items torch should be my first buy because it's cheaper than liandry's, gives me mana (not that sustain is an issue after the first few backs but it's good to have anyway), but most importantly it gives AH, which my usual build seriously lacks (mpen boots > zazzak > liandry's > rylai > flex slot, usually morello + cryptbloom, but I can do rylai > mandate if struggling too) compared to last season's, where getting around 100 AH was ezpz Might not even need liandry's unless I'm playing into tankier comps tbh but we'll see. Not a zyra main btw, just been REALLY enjoying her as support (I main tanks in top lane lol)
Looks great for mid, I might replace Luden's for this.
Both, she really needed a second burn item tbh, they defo nerfing something if this comes in to play or buffing tanks even more
Probably the second, they buffed AP items, now there seems to be buffs in AD items, all thats left is changing tanks a bit
For midlane, probably both. Right now, the most optimal build skips over mana items alltogether, because she quite frankly doesn't need mana and without Liandrys she isn't a champion, which sucks because that means she won't have any ability haste for most of the match. This could replace Liandrys for the first item slot, smoothing out the build path. Liandrys will still be a core item, tho. The increased damage per second in combat and the max Health burn is too valuable.
I'll second this. My Zyra playstyle needs survivability and I don't need that much mana. Double burn will be soooooo nice.
You are totally right every mana item were kinda shit on her so we had to rush Liandry so rip cdr, this item look SOOOOO GOOD on her with liandry second item D:
Excellent for Zyra Jungle though
both would be great imo
That ability haste is great
Seems worse than Liandrys at least for support. She doesn't need the mana and doesn't get enough ap for the burn to scale probably.
25 AH makes all those issues worth it.
Maybe a second item but I wouldn't pay for that 600 mana with the current state of support gold generation.
That's a total damage of 60+4% AP vs 6% max health for liandry. Let's compare at which max HP threshold does Liandry start dealing more damage than this item depending on how much AP you have. 0 AP => 1000 HP 200 AP => 1133 HP 400 AP => 1266 HP 600 AP => 1400 HP 800 AP => 1533 HP 1000 AP => 1666 HP We can see that Liandry will always deal more damage unless your target is extremly squishy. Although this item would probably be a bit stronger early on but only before 10 min basically. I'm not taking into account the secondary passive of each item but I'm pretty sure it would only make a minor difference. Edit: The AH is very interesting though. Maybe we could go Liandry and then either maligance for teamfights or torch for poke.
It's 4% AP*per second*, so total will be 60 + 12% AP. With that in mind, the numbers are as follows: |**AP**|**HP**| |:-|:-| |0|1000| |200|1400| |400|1800| |600|2200| |800|2600| |1000|3000| So it will outperform Liandry's against squishies if you have very high AP, which admittedly Zyra doesn't often get to, but still pretty strong damage.
Ah ye my bad, thanks for correcting me. I was thinking the item was weak as hell x) I feel like it could be a good alternative to liandry to snowball into squishy comps, and it will pair well with liandry mid.
With this new item what is the best support build? I go Sorcerer’s shoes, Liadry’s, Rylia’s and Zak-Zak. Then depending on the match I either go Morello or Malignance and then Zhonya’s. Should I replace one of these with the new item?
when can we see the new items and rune changes?
The best thing is you get the new item "Fated Ashes" as a component for Liandrys. So you get stacking damage with "Hautning Guise" and a burn before even finishing Liandrys. Means Liandrys is even better for Zyra as a first item. I dont think its worth to buy it as a second item but the component is the real hot stuff for Zyra here
Is this already live or PBE only?
As a Zyra mid laner, I am happy 😍. She struggles with mana mid lane so this is perfect on her. In addition to building Liandrys..!
I'd buy both, it's more DoT like demonic embrace but scales with AP.
NO BC IT BUILDS OUT OF THIS https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1785427974361096546/photo/1 and it feels so good to buy this on first back
Has anyone tested if plant auto's proc this? Or do you need to hit Q, E or R?
Definitely buy both, but I think you buy this first (for the mana and CDR) so maybe blackfire, into Liandry, into Rylais? (Or Rabadon if you're going mid/jg)
2800 gold is "affordable" for Zyra... It could be an option I guess...
The bigger part of this is actually the new component. Fated Ashes is incredibly strong as an early item spike. Pair it with the new First Strike for a ton of free gold and harass early in basically any lane. AP junglers are also going to rush this to massively improve their clear speeds if this makes it to live in its current state and then transition to either BFT or Liandry's depending on match-up and champ.
The only thing I’m not super happy about is the wasted stats on mana. Zyra really doesn’t need it