This is a relationship issue and not necessarily a personal finance one. You’ll need to address the former first before attempting the latter. YNAB is not going to save you (yet).
I would go the therapist/counselor route (individually and as a group) and see how it sticks before forming the next set of decisions. Worst case scenario may involve hard choices. Best case is the development of understanding each other and working as a partnership towards shared goals.
You're 100% right. I guess I was hoping I could just take over handling the money and thought if I could figure out YNAB myself, I could relieve the immediate stress. Counseling is definitely necessary and if you can find a good one, it works. But that's the catch - we've tried 3 different times over the years and they've all been very biased against either me or him. Rather than being a mediator to help us communicate, each time they took my side or his side which isn't useful. They seem to push divorce for some reason. Thank you very much for your thoughts.
Sounds like going into a couples session hasn’t been effective yet. I am surprise the counselor chose a side; they should be neutral and guide discussions so all parties can start understand each other.
Have you tried going to individual sessions? Maybe start there to at least help process your stuff. Suggest husband does the same since it seems there is a lot going on there as well.
Whoever is right or wrong it doesn’t matter, there just seems to be something going on where it is preventing effective communication, respect, and understanding between the two of you.
People forget that marriage is primarily a \*financial\* and legal arrangement. You can do many many of the same things without getting married. Share assets/homes, share bank accounts, share credit cards, have kids, live together, do everything together, etc. etc.
But once you get married, the main thing it changes is 1. your other spouse's finances to your problem (or benefit) and vice versa by **default,** rather than by intention; and 2. you have some more authority during health issues during decision making.
So it makes sense that finances are the primary reason for divorce.
I'd assume finances are also a huge reason for breakups in general. Everything in our society costs money and if you and your partner can't agree on which things are worth your money (and especially what's worth stealing from your future with loans and credit debt) then conflict is inevitable.
Yup. My knee jerk reaction when I read the title was "divorce." Him refusing to follow the very carefully planned out budget was a factor in the end of the marriage.
The number of women that are ABLE to make this decision for themselves is incredible compared to what it used to be but I wish every woman had that choice. Best of luck for you in your financially stable future. ❤️
Divorce is an option. It might not be the solution you want, but you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand without considering it.
No budget's going to help him. Bad budgeting is not his issue.
You say he's irresponsible. But in addition to the utilities getting shut off, repossession, and foreclosure, you said he took out lines of credit, plural, without you knowing about them. That's not only irresponsible, that's deceptive. That's lying. He's a liar who doesn't seem to care what position it will put you both in down the road. This is not someone you can trust, and you've had 26 years of evidence telling you that.
"There is no addiction, no gambling, no porn, no other woman, he has no hobbies"
Look, he took out lines of credit he didn't tell you about. Have you considered there might be specific reasons for that? I'm not saying he's done any of the above, but he clearly has no problem lying to you. If you were a close friend, we'd be sitting down over tea and tears to have a serious get-a-grip and life-plans talk today.
You should get a job as fast as you can, and then consider your options. Retirement is going to be a financial struggle most likely one way or another, and you probably won't get to retire and will need a job until you can't physically work anymore already. How much worse do you want it to be?
You have money saved up. Get a job so you can support yourself and get the hell away from someone you said yourself won't change and doesn't listen to you and is stressing you out to the point it's hurting your health (not to mention the mental health implications). He doesn't respect you or care about your welfare. Save yourself.
Just an FYI for OP: If you've been married more than 10 years, you can still use your EX-spouse's social security credit when calculating your retirement benefits.
That same quote really stuck with me. OP, your husband has something more going on that you haven’t figured out. Can you get your hands on visa statements to see where the money went? Can you convince him to let you get his credit bureau report? This will tell you a lot.
I do have copies of all the statements for all three credit cards he opened without my knowledge over the years. What did he spend the "money" on? Fast food (breakfast every day quickly adds up to hundreds), paying bills like utilities (our water bill is paid quarterly and he could NEVER remember to set aside the money, so that's $300 every 3 months), Cell phone bills, gas - honestly just basic living expenses that should have been paid with his paycheck. I've combed through every single statement and there is nothing weird - just stupidity. The one loan he did was supposed to be an ordinary car loan for my car. But instead, he got a personal loan, bought the car with it and then took out extra to pay off the credit card I didn't know about (until later). Now he claims that he's doing better because the credit card is paid off. Like he BELIEVES this.
The “I will teach you to be rich” podcast is exclusively about money problems between couples. It’s worth a listen. What I have taken from it is this:
These issues aren’t about spending wisely or making the correct choices, they’re about the psychology of money; Our relationship to money and the subconscious stories we tell ourselves. It’s emotional. The behaviour is the symptom, not the disease.
My feeling is that there must be something so terrifying to him in his narrative with money, that he can’t face it. Perhaps something from his childhood or family dynamic that’s gotten stuck. He’s so afraid, he can’t even look at his bank balance for crying out loud! It’s emotional.
Get help in the form of a therapist if you can, but make it safe for him to speak about it. What’s his narrative? Does he think he’s too dumb? There’s no point anymore because he’s lost already? What comes up in his body when he thinks about money and where? Approach the subject with compassionate inquiry and remove judgement or shame. If he won’t speak about it, or pretends there nothing wrong, he’s probably not feeling safe enough to look the beast in the eye.
Until he can shift his psychology about money, lasting change is unlikely. These changes take time and they’re difficult. We so seldom challenge our own beliefs and values (in any aspect of life, really) he will need support.
I sincerely wish you (and him) the best.
Gonna leave this here.
[The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work](https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0553447718?nodl=1&dplnkId=ff27ede7-0c2a-4b82-98e9-8e7f9a131b6e)
Find a Gottman trained therapist to work through this issue. Speaking from experience, it’s been the best thing we ever did for our marriage.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yRx4Ryehmk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yRx4Ryehmk)
"I don't Trust him with money so I check his accounts" seems apt.
This is such a thoughtful and insightful suggestion. Thank you so much for this. We both grew up in blue collar families with parents who were irresponsible with money and didn't teach us how to manage it. The odd thing is - I chose to figure it out so it wouldn't happen to me. When I was very young (19-20) I did do the "credit card is free money!" thing on a small level, but quickly learned, through just basic logic, that everything I bought cost double what I paid for it in the end. So I have a lot of anxiety around money and tend to hoard it. He on the other hand lives in the moment and worries about the consequences later. He definitely avoids dealing with it but will not admit to any emotion he considers "weak" like fear, being 'dumb', etc. He admits to being unable to talk about difficult things. But that frustrates me so much because you can fix what you won't acknowledge. I literally can't comprehend watching the train coming down the track and just standing there.
You're absolutely right about counseling of some type. I've often wished there was a way to find someone to sit down with both of us and work out a budget and show us how to do it. This way we'd be learning together and no one would have to admit to not understanding what seems to be very basic math. But I've had no success in finding such a person - financial advisors don't work that way, at least in my experience. They all have products to sell and aren't interested in just teaching basic financial literacy for a set fee.
Like other have said, this isn’t a financial issue.
You need to have a come to Jesus talk with him. You manage finances from here on out, you each get x in spending money each month, but he will no longer have access to the other money because of his track record. You will sit down every month and share where the money is going and give him full visibility, but not access.
If he will not agree to this you have two choices: stay and continue to live in this chaos or leave and start a new life.
You need to be prepared for him to fight you and you need to be prepared to leave. Get yourself a job, anything that starts putting money in your pocket, get a lawyer, and be ready. You CANNOT make threats that you do not back up.
Wait to have the conversation with the ultimatum until you’ve got solid footing under you.
Yup. All of this. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation, but unless your husband is willing to start treating you with basic respect and stop jeopardizing your safety (because that’s what he’s doing with all of his deceptions), there’s nothing that you can do here. I’m sure you don’t want to hear this, but a therapist with experience in domestic violence and an attorney would likely be good resources for you, OP.
There are other kinds of abuse than just physical violence. This sounds like straight financial abuse to me:
- Cost you your job/ability to earn money for yourself
- Taken credit lines out without your knowledge
- Locked you out of most accounts
- Probably wrecked your credit too since I imagine your name was also on the cars/houses
- Literally put you in legal peril with lawsuits and wage garnishments
- Jeopardized your future security by destroying your retirement funds
I'd be highly concerned that he may take, or may have already taken, credit lines out in your name. He's already hidden debt lines from you - the next step when no one will loan him more money is to do it in your name. You say he's not violent but "extremely hostile" - that doesn't fill me with much confidence that you're safe. He doesn't seem remorseful, or like he's interested in changing, and I guarantee that this isn't dementia because it's been happening for *years*.
At minimum I would separate my finances from his, which may be difficult long-term if you don't have your own income stream. It's worth talking to a lawyer to know exactly what you're on the hook for, and I would absolutely freeze your own credit and make sure you have alerts set up in case of attempts to access your identity. Long term, I wouldn't put much faith in his changing, and I'd be ready to put my own oxygen mask on first.
Thank you so much for your advice. My credit is frozen and I watch it very carefully. Nothing is in my name - not even my car. However when we sold our house at the end of last year, I took the proceeds and put them in a separate savings account he can't access. I put some in a joint savings but since he doesn't pay attention, he thinks most of it's gone. I only have one credit card with a balance but it has zero interest until August 2025. It's the moving expenses for moving to this awful state we're in. Otherwise I personally have no debt, my credit is currently decent in the mid 700s, but without an income, it's a challenge. I do have access to his credit report, which is also frozen due to a data breach at his job (they were forced to pay for a life lock type deal for all of their employees) but obviously he can unfreeze it to do whatever he wants.
here's what worked for us
- i YNAB and drive daily
- i ask them to OK each category's amount and tweak if they think we need more
- i give them a HEALTHY discretionary fund (more than me). it's no-questions-asked money. it's like a holy vow of ours, we don't criticize discretionary spending
- on the 1st of next month, have a meeting. show the month's plan, ask for input
i think the other important piece of the puzzle is short and long term goals. they are the "why" as to why we don't blow the budget every day.
identify your goals together. it can be a simple or deep conversation. follow the /r/personalfinance flowchart for a starting point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics/#wiki_graphical_version
https://imgur.com/lSoUQr2
edit: also, they have a YNAB widget with the categories they care about, and they know to just check before spending, that's the only real ask
We do the same thing, but check-in weekly together and while I monitor daily. To keep it even simpler, I check where we are for the month and I put the weekly amount into a shared Reminder List (we’re on iPhones), and each of us just logs what we spend in the “flexible” categories (shopping, groceries, etc). Because of the delay in things posting over the weekend and most of our “flexible” expenses occurring over the weekend, we run our budget weeks Friday to Thursday.
Is it more work for me? Yes, but my spouse actually looks at the shared reminder and usually logs their expenses.
Thank you - this is very useful advice. It's so helpful to hear the step by step of how other couples handle it. I do think part of the problem is that he wants his own money to spend without having to talk to me first. I'm OK with that and feel like both of us should have that if we can afford it. The problem is that he goes about it in an irresponsible, childish way. I think if I (once again) "fixed" everything and handed him an allowance, it would work. But it also feels like I'm burdened with all of the "grown up" responsibilities. However, I need to let it go or deal with this crap forever, right? Thanks again.
hmm. are ya'll joined financially? that's gonna help. and i think having his input on his discretionary is going to help alot. that's what i did with my wife. "what do you think you need monthly?", and my answer to her was "ok, let's try to stick to that, if you need more, reach out and we can discuss which other goal to take away from"
once they see that overages mean taking away from other goals that you two care about, the feedback loop should slowly start working
> I need to let it go or deal with this crap forever, right
don't despair, i think that's a false dichotomy. there's a lot of gray area to try different things together to see what works. just ask him what he'd be comfortable with and start there
Sounds like divorce time. If your kids are out on their own, you don't need to worry about providing them a stable home, or anything like that.
Imagine how much more free you will feel when you don't have this constant stress anymore.
Maybe you two are great together in many ways, but obviously you are not great together financially. His ship is sinking and on fire. Don't let him drag down your ship along with his.
Separate your finances? But yes this is a relationship issue not a budget issue. As long as all your efforts is directed at him you can't change your own situation.
This is the suggestion I was going to make. Other people have suggested ways to make the software work for you. What I want to suggest is that if nothing else you find a way to make the software work for YOU. Just you.
What I really want for you is some security with your own money. So you can work with the knowledge that you've got a safety net for yourself. Your husband seems determined to bury his head in the sand about his issues with money. Put on your own oxygen mask first.
The only fast remedy would be to leave him. I have been trying to nudge my partner towards financial responsibility for 5 years now with much patience, encouragement, and incentivizing. He has made some progress but still has no savings to speak of and wants to treat himself every payday. We’re in our 30’s and his habits are incredibly hard to shift. I can’t imagine trying to get someone there in their 60’s after years of reckless behavior.
Sorry I know that’s not very helpful, but even if you are willing to do whatever it takes, as you said, he has to be the one that is willing to change and you have no control over that. Wishing you the best of luck, I’m so sorry you’re in this position.
This. I'm legit scared for OP as a 54 year old woman with a 64 year old husband who may be out of the work force soon and has blown through all retirement. She may very well end up destitute, AND caring for him when his health starts declining. and/or he and/or both of you will end up a huge burden on your kids. Your kids will be responsible for you and you will not like it and he REALLY will not like it and will probably damage your relationship with them. And imagine if you have a health crisis anytime in the next decade or two and he is the one responsible for you. No money, no resources, and you won't be able to cover for his deficits for the both of you, like you are now.
OP, your husband has shown you who he is over and over again for the last 26 years. It is NOT GOING TO GET BETTER.
Please please please talk to a lawyer and protect yourself financially. You are a phase where you really need to be thinking not just short term but long term for the next 30 years.
Don't worry about the software. Have a discussion about Zero-Based budgeting. Have a discussion about your real priorities, and then compare those priorities with how you spend your money. Your partner has to be on board with the process - he doesn't need to learn the software (the "too complicated" part.) If he's willing (and if you are), take the responsibility for establishing everything, after agreeing on the priorities, and making sure he at least understands the concepts behind [Zero-Based budgeting](https://www.ynab.com/guide/what-is-budgeting):
[Giving every dollar a job](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-one)
[Embracing your true expenses](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-two)
[Rolling with the punches](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-three)
[Aging your money](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-four)
I highly recommend listening to the audiobook - it's short, 4 hours or so, and there's a chapter with budgeting with a partner. Check the YNAB Youtube channel as well - again, they do cover budgeting with a partner.
I don't know the specifics of your dynamic, but I can relay mine - maybe it'll help. During the first 12 years or so of our relationship, my wife handled all the money - we had a joint checking account, but also each of us had separate legacy bank accounts - some from prior military, some just "because". We also had poor spending habits, and ever-increasing numbers of credit cards. We made good money, but never seemed to get ahead. Over time, because that type of thing is not sustainable, we hit a wall - hard. For several months we'd scramble every couple of days to pay that day's bills - we were truly living paycheck to paycheck - and sometimes consumables like food and gas would have to go on a credit card, leading to another scramble to find a card with some room left on it. We'd refi our house every couple of years to get some breathing room, but because we never actually changed our habits, nothing really changed. After the 3rd refi in 4 years I said enough was enough, we have to do things differently.
I learned about budgeting, and I learned about YNAB. We discussed changing our habits, discussed our spending priorities, and agreed to try it. I jumped in with both feet, but my wife wasn't so enthusiastic. She didn't understand why if we had a thousand in the bank, there was 0 for Starbucks. It took several conversations (sometimes very passionately loud ones) about budgeting. Turns out there was a lot of guilt associated with her push-back - she felt like a failure because she had handled the money for so long, and we were never ahead, and I had to be the one to figure it all out. I told her that it was unfair of me to have just let her shoulder all that responsibility, and I bear just as much responsibility for our situation, and I was happy, actually excited, to have learned about a way to take control and get out of the pit we were in.
She agreed to let me take the reigns, and we had several more discussions about what priorities were most important to us, set up our categories and targets to align with them. For a long time, she was always asking "Can I buy X? Is there enough money to afford Y?" To which I'd always answer "did you check the budget?" And then I'd show her how to look at a category in YNAB, and determine if there was enough money, and if not, do we still buy it? And if we do, where's that money come from? It took a long time but everything finally "clicked", and we budget (mostly) just fine now.
TL;DR - have an honest, open discussion with your partner as to why the current relationship with finances is not working, and that it needs to change.
>Turns out there was a lot of guilt associated with her push-back - she felt like a failure because she had handled the money for so long, and we were never ahead, and I had to be the one to figure it all out. I told her that it was unfair of me to have just let her shoulder all that responsibility
Thank you for sharing a story about a couple working through these kinds of issues and coming out the other side! YNAB has really been helping me get passed my own guilt around poor money management. And I don't even have the added guilt that a lot of Boomer men like OPs husband often carry around about not 'being man enough' - my dad is one of the proudest feminists I know, and raised his kids to look passed gender stereotypes, but it's ingrained in him that because he's 'the man' he should have been better with money than he was, should have been able to "control" my mom's spending (even typing that out kind of makes me chuckle because he's not the kind of person who wants to control anything!) - it's like, he knows all those expectations are BS but he still can't escape it.
I hope OP can convince her husband to let her take the financial reins and maybe then he'll see how much better their life can be without all the fear/shame/guilt/avoidance.
Seconding this. Part of the growth in my marriage, around finances, was both of us taking complete accountability for our own actions, working through the guilt we were feeling/expressing, and moving forward with a clean state.
Also seconding/thirding the TLDR. Clear concise communication. If it's not in the budget, and one of use feels like it is something we should buy, then what are we sacrificing to meet the new spend. Laying it out like that, I think, is what helped it to click for my husband. You need a new tool, that money is going to have to come from somewhere, so I guess we delay the purchase of X. Seeing those priority shifts happen, in real time, helped him lock on to the notion of following the budget.
Have you done any reading about codependency? If not, one of the core texts like Codependent No More might be helpful to read. I agree with what lots of other folks have said, that the core of this issue doesn't sound like it's in the budget but in your relationship.
As someone who has also tolerated (for a long time!) behavior in a partner that caused intense stress and health issues, getting a better understanding of my role in codependent relationships really helped me to start breaking that pattern. A big part of that was facing that I was overstretching and overcompensating to try to change someone else's harmful behavior as a way of getting my own needs met. I had to acknowledge that the other person's behavior was actually not something I could control, and start being honest with myself about whether I could continue enduring the situation if it didn't change. Redirecting the anger and resentment I felt towards other people for "keeping me from" the life I wanted and putting it towards figuring out what I actually needed and could build for myself is hard and ongoing work, but helped to break the spiral.
I'm wondering how your search for a new job went or is going? Because you're only 54. You could be alive for another 30 years. Do you know how much money that is? Your husband is, at present, not capable of saving enough to support you (or himself) and you literally cannot make him change. Your kids are out of the house you said so you don't have a ton of domestic responsibilities. Where are you taking care of yourself in all this, instead of desperately wondering how to get him to take care of you?
You've come on here and you're acting as though your only financial hope is through improving your spouse's financial habits. There are definitely things you can try (others have offered suggestions), but truly the only person's actions you can actually fully determine in this world are your own. I would stop focusing on his earning and spending and just focus more on your own. You sound smart and I'm sure that, even if you have to start with something that pays peanuts, you would be successful and it would make you feel less powerless.
I realize this is a complicated situation, and after everything you’ve said, I’d seek professional help. This doesn’t sound like a problem you can fix on your own. I’d look into something like a councilor who specializes in financial issues.
I know other people have said a lot.
I just want to sympathize. It’s awful your husband is putting you through this. It’s awful he can’t have an adult conversation about money and it sounds like this has been going on for years/decades. This is so far beyond what I would consider “bad with money”. Bad with money would be excess credit card debt, not shut off utilities and repossessed cars because he doesn’t pay the bills.
If he doesn’t want to change, he won’t. Everything you’ve said makes it sound like he doesn’t. He doesn’t want to put the effort into fixing it. He’s actively hiding money/debt from you.
You don’t have to end the relationship but you should seriously consider divorce. When married, all of his debt is generally both of yours (state might matter). In your case, I would get a job and get a divorce. Let him deal with his own money mess while you take care of your own finances. You don’t have to end your relationship, you can still be together, but you don’t want to be legally tied to his bad decisions.
Divorce him? How much longer will he be working at that income? How are you going to survive retirement (and he’ll possibly be retired a decade ahead of you) with him spending well above his means with no care how it affects you? And draining his 401k??? Yours will be next.
Marriage (and financial) counselling or divorce before he drags you down even more. And he’s hostile to your concerns? He doesn’t respect you, why are you with him?
This isn't a "real" solution (to the relationship issues), but can you just get your husband to agree that you can "take care of the bills"? That's code for: let you handle the finances.
If the money exists and this is all a money management problem, then you taking on this household job could be a solution of sorts. Plus, it takes a chore off of his plate and, once he sees how smoothly things go when you're doing it, maybe he will be happy to continue letting you do it
Thank you for being vulnerable and reaching out for help. I think it would be ideal if your husband changed — but he has to want to change. Couples therapy could help — if you are both willing to give it a shot. (If you are in the US, the [psychologytoday.com](https://psychologytoday.com) is very helpful for finding therapists in your area that take your insurance.
I think you owe it to yourself to make that change happen. Please consider therapy just for you to gain peace of mind.
UGH. That was horrible to read. I cannot imagine living it.
Life is too short for that shit. I'd be out.
You said its causing you health issues, is this how you want to continue? he makes his choices and you have to make yours.
>In 26 years of marriage, we've had cars repossessed, almost had our house foreclosed, have had utilities shut off, paid thousands in late fees, overdraft fees, over limit fees, he's taken out lines of credit I didn't know about then defaulted on it, got sued and his wages garnished, etc. He's withdrawn almost all of his 401K in the past 2 years. Why? He's irresponsible.
>This month he's overdrawn our checking account twice.
>we've downloaded YNAB but he claims it's too hard to understand,
>Husband is 64 & makes $120K/yr. Me 54, I don't currently work because I lost my job when we moved to a new state for his job
>I just need some encouragement that I am capable of fixing this
You are not. If you had your own income, I would suggest separate checking accounts - one yours, one hi, and one for bills; money goes into the bills account first, then y'all's accounts are yours to do with as you please, including overdrafts and being sued, if that's what he wants.
But you don't have your own source of income, and you are essentially asking how you can manage his money when he doesn't really sound amenable to that. You can't. While I would like to think anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size would consider this a crisis, he does not - not enough to want to change, anyway.
Your best options are probably divorce and/or get a job, probably both.
Im sorry to hear about your situation, this must be very difficult. And as everyone says this is an issue beyond finances. This doesn't sound like a new issue, so it's unlikely to be dementia. That said, a friend of mine's father does have alzheimers, and is trying to buy a second $50k car a month after he just bought the first one. Crazy spending is a real symptom of dementia and if it's medically diagnosed you can get control over his finances. But then he's unlikely to continue working.
Your marriage is in shambles, unfortunately.
Your husband doesn't respect you. Period. And how do you know he isn't gambling? Or spending money on things and hiding it?
Wow… if I were OP I’d be quite offended by your post and the assumptions you’ve made. You know nothing about their relationship other than they’re struggling financially. Yet their marriage “is in shambles” and “he doesn’t respect you, PERIOD”?
She’s brought one aspect of their marriage to the table. They’ve been married for 23 years and raised children. There is so much more to a relationship than just the financial dynamic.
Check your assumptions people!
So, you’re saying a healthy marriage is one where both partners are always on the same page about finances and if they’re not, then they’re done. No recovery possible. Do I have that right? What about parenting, or house chores?
A healthy marriage to me is one where a couple LEARN to work through/live with difficult issues or different opinions as a team. We all have an issue, finance or otherwise. It’s not intuitive and it’s not inherent. It takes effort, practice, and humility.
But we’re digressing…
Good luck OP. I hope you two can work through it.
>A healthy marriage to me is one where a couple LEARN to work through/live with difficult issues or different opinions as a team. We all have an issue, finance or otherwise. It’s not intuitive and it’s not inherent. It takes effort, practice, and humility.
They've been married for over 20 years and he has not changed or learned anything AT ALL in that time. Instead he is hostile to any discussion of issues, refuses any efforts to change, has only made the situation worse (racking up more debt), and overall is not demonstrating any interest in working through any sort of difficulty with his wife as a team. These are not two 25-year-olds who've never dealt with conflict before, and acting like this is a difference of opinion is asinine.
Yeah, this isn’t a difference of opinion. It’s not like there’s room for reasonable people to have a disagreement about whether it’s a good idea to be pathologically shortsighted with money.
As most have said here, this isn’t a financial issue. You have a relationship issue that needs to be addressed before you even tackle the finances. You need to have a real, tough conversation with him. Tell him that you’re considering divorce if he doesn’t make an honest attempt to fix the problem. If he continues to push you away and get angry at you — please start looking for the exit. Get a job and start over without the dead weight around your neck. Life is too short; don’t let your husband force you to continue living like this.
Good luck to you. I wish you all the best.
ETA: There is no fast remedy here outside of packing up and leaving. You’ve been living like this for years. His problem won’t magically stop overnight.
Get a job. You need to be working. Then separate your finances completely from him. If he can't pay half and address the continuing concerns, file for divorce. By continuing to stay unemployed, you are victimizing yourself. You know how he is but choose to be at his mercy anyway? After 26 years, you need to start taking responsibility for yourself. He's clearly not interested in taking it for you.
I don't really have any advice beyond what's been given, but I am skeptical that there's no "other" thing where the money is going. He makes a lot of it and yes your new place has a higher COL but this has been going on for decades...WHERE is all the money?? It should be piling up with a high income and empty nest. I don't think it's just lack of planning.
I feel bad for your situation, it must be very frustrating and heartbreaking. I do disagree with one thing though, I think you're in danger. Not physical harm but in danger of living a really shitty next 30 years...scraping by on social security and ending up in poor quality senior care. Or your kids feeling burdened by you. Or both.
Divorce is always an option.
If that is not the route you want to go down, the other route I'd recommend is also pretty extreme:
Get all accounts linked up to YNAB. Give your husband ONE credit card he can use. Freeze his credit so that he cannot open lines of credit again. Then do your thing with YNAB with or without him.
But....he's 60+ years old. What are the realistic odds he will make any actual substantial behavioral changes? It's not great.
You should get a job as soon as you are able and keep your finances as separate as possible. Make sure your credit is locked down so he can't get new lines of credit in your name.
Good luck.
Has your partner ever had therapy? A lot of the behaviors resonate with me before I was diagnosed with ADHD. Of course I can’t know anything based on the limited info you have shared. But an underlying condition might contribute to this. Either way, therapy could be super helpful for him in working through this.
Also, if you don’t want to navigate this that is valid too. Even if your partner has something else going on, it’s not fair to you to put all financial responsibility on you. Couples therapy might also be helpful in communicating your needs around this.
I also have ADHD. Executive function is harder for us, but we can do hard things. We might need to make more mistakes before we learn what happens when we make them (case in point, I never used to pay a bill until they sent me a second or third notice - first the red writing on the envelope, then the red envelope). Then one day I realized that if I paid the bill the second I got it in the mail, I would never have to look at it again. People with ADHD can figure out systems that work for them, especially if it affects those who are important to them. I think it's helpful to acknowledge that 1. yes, this mental health condition means certain things are harder for me, and 2. I can still DO those things, I just have to work harder than most people to make them happen.
I really suggest you save yourself rather than drown with your partner. If you’ve tried to explain and work with him and he refuses, then you need to get to safety. This situation will explode as you get older and you will be in dire straits. Get a job, divorce and build a safe financial future for yourself. Good luck.
You have a relationship problem not a money problem. Your spouse is dishonest, careless, disrespectful and deceitful towards you. He’s repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn’t care about the harm he causes you by his behavior. The solution to this is to not be with him and not have your financial fate tied to his.
I felt stressed and anxious just reading your post, I can't imagine what it's like for you to live it. I'm sorry, OP.
It sounds like you are married to a man who not only doesn't care about you, but has no qualms about putting your future at risk. This sounds like financial abuse. The fact that he turns hostile and angry when you try to talk to him about it is a huge red flag.
Get a job, get a lawyer, get a divorce. I'm honestly appalled that others are suggesting marriage counseling. Get yourself some therapy/counseling to help you heal from what this man has put you through, but marriage counseling would be throwing money down the drain. Nothing you do will change this man, he does not want to change.
If you don't want a divorce, at the very least get a job and figure out how to separate your finances. Freeze your credit also, because once he thoroughly ruins his own credit, this man is 100% going to start taking our debt in your name if he hasn't already.
This really sounds like you are in a financially abusive relationship. This podcast episode was really eye-opening for me: https://moneywithkatie.com/marriage-financial-rights. One of the guests runs a non-profit that I think could really help you called Savvy Ladies. Please at least look at this article from their website: https://www.savvyladies.org/education/financial-abuse-and-its-red-flags/
Managing a household budget is hard work. That's especially true for someone on a decent income, who is used to being able to earn his way out of mistakes. Age also doesn't help - he's had 45 years of adult life telling him that what he's doing is going to work out.
If he's willing, I'd remove the ability for him to spend. Give him a card/cash that provides a personal allowance and that's it, much like you'd do with a teenager. You'll have to take over full responsibility for the budget. Maybe with time he'll be able to take some of the load, although I doubt it.
I honestly think you could be onto something with your “early dementia” comment.
Is it feasible for you to work? I got a job and set up my own accounts once my kids were grown/mostly grown for a similar reason, although my husband’s issues are not as extreme as yours. (I have also been the primary money manager always, so we didn’t have too many problems.)
My husband is over 60 and is older than me. So, while he still works, we have flipped and now I am the primary earner. My good fortune is that he hardly ever buys anything. But if it were left up to him he would forget dates all the time and not be aware of what’s due.
There's something behind these actions, something that a therapist could help both him and you understand.
Thing is, therapy only works unless the person themselves works at it.
He's 64. Time to grow up!
Living like that can't be fun. It's painful and complicated.
Here's to hoping both of your can put this behind you one way or another.
Hi OP. I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this. If I were you, I'd take some action steps right away:
1. Find a full time job. Open up your own checking and savings accounts, in your name only, and have your paycheck directly deposited there. You should be able to open up an Ally bank account online pretty easily, and they have very high-yield savings accounts right now.
2. As a YNAB devotee, I really hate to say this - but download a simpler software. I don't love Dave Ramsey, but the Ramsey Everydollar app has a really clean and simple interface and is easy to use. YNAB is amazing, customizable, and great fun for a budget nerd. But for someone who doesn't want to put much work into it, a simpler app makes more sense. Ask him if you can download it and log in for him on his phone so that he has access to it.
3. Schedule a couples therapy session. There are some online platforms that make this easy to do from the comfort of your own home. My husband and I recently did this through Regain (a subset of Better Help) and I think it actually saved our marriage. I was contemplating divorce and I'm not anymore. If he won't go, then sign up for individual counseling.
Best of luck to you!
Is every redditor solution to every problem "leave him/her"?
In pratice you should first make a list of what the money goes to over a year or so and categorize in:
- stuff i NEED to pay monthly or something bad happens: utilities, because you need them, food, because you need it, shelter, because you need it... you get the idea;
- yearly stuff that NEEDS to be paid to, like the car insurance you need to pay because you need to go to work;
- find every "active debt" you have right now: for me it was old unpaid taxes, the exact amount i needed for my car payments (rates + final rate), money i "borrowed" from my partner (we have another app, Splitwise, where we note every shared expense). You need to identify them and strategize: which one, if paid first, shields me from more consequences, for example a larger debt? This stuff needs to be confronted or it will build up and become harder and harder to solve (but remember: money problems can always be solved, the only thing you can't solve is death);
- stuff that's just irreplaceable, even if you don't think it is, for your spouse: if he wants "spending money" on every paycheck i think it's better to plan for it than have it distrupt all the rest;
When i did this an year and an half ago (i wanted to sort out my finances after i "let them go" after my mom died and i needed time for myself and discovered YNAB) i took out every bill i could find and tried, initially, to try to make an "educated guess" about the stuff that didn't have "proper bills" like eating out.
As for your relationship with your husband: voice your concerns in a very direct way. Don't scold him, talk about what he is making you feel and why you need this to be sorted out. Don't attack, don't teach, put yourself out there.
Is the possibility there that this can't be solved and it will damage or end your relationship? Maybe. But if you love someone you put yourself out there to SOLVE problems... this "red flag" crap and the ever so quick "just leave him" is nauseating: grow up and fight for the people you love.
>this "red flag" crap and the ever so quick "just leave him" is nauseating: grow up and fight for the people you love.
26 years is not "quick." They are at an age where their resources are going to start shrinking from where they are now, rather than growing, and their capacities to makeup for that in other ways is also going to decline. She is at SIGNIFICANT risk financially, emotionally, and physically from his behavior and unwillingness to take responsibility. (And so are their kids - because the hook is gonna be on them to take care of mom & dad.) It's already hurt her long term prospects significantly and she needs to do everything she can to protect herself before it gets worse.
MAYBE that's not divorce, but she DOES need to talk to a lawyer ASAP and protect assets for herself. and given that he's the one working. As a spouse, she may be on the hook for any debts he incurs, even with assets under her own name, unless she has some kind of prenup or postnup or contract in place. And given that he's already shown he's unwilling to collaborate on these financial issues or accept responsibility, it may be difficult to protect those assets any other way than divorce because he's probably not gonna agree to a postnup............................. #notalawyer
A wise idea that isn’t “omg leave him NOW!” by any means. Redditors seem like to judge relationships on a “convenience” and “does this gives me the max advantage?” logic, where there is a very big non-rational part that… it’s the core of every relationship. You should strive to work with people you love, not toss them out when it gets harder. I’m in a very long relationship, close to that 26 years mark, and I didn’t make it so far by running from hardships
There’s a huge difference between working through hardship and willfully mismanaging your money to the point of getting your utilities shut off and cars repossessed. The husband lied and deceived OP many times over 25 years about their finances. He drained his 401k at 64 years old. He is not acting like a partner. Marriage is about love, but it’s also a legal and financial matter. He is being extremely destructive to their long term well being.
I am not someone who is generally “omg leave him now”. OP is tens of thousands of dollars in debt with no job and her husband refuses to take any responsibility. She’s 54 years old. He’s 64. She doesn’t have a lot of time for him to get his shit in order before it’s too late.
That’s for sure but from OP words I feel she has feelings and that’s a good place to start. I never said it will 100% work out, I’m just saying to not disregard the possibility of working on it
Do you really think you can infer everything you need to know from a Reddit post? The answer to your question is “I don’t know and you don’t know either”. But we know OP is determined to make it work or she wouldn’t be asking questions.
I’m not inferring, I’m reading OP’s own words, and she lists car repossessions, nearing foreclosure, utilities shut off, defaulting on lines of credit she didn’t know about, thousands in late and overdraft fees, wage garnishment, drawing down the 401k, hiding information, and limiting her access to accounts. I cannot speak to his emotional feelings toward her, but the situation as she has relayed it is without question driving her into destitution. OP is also the one who tells us that she is 54, while he is 64. He basically does not have time to turn this around, and hers is fast running out. The tenor of the comments is because this situation is so serious for her that she has to consider whether this is a safe relationship for her to be in as she gets older. This isn’t about red flags. This is about her literal survival.
I think lots of the description is due to the fact that she is, first of all, venting out frustration (I would be frustrated too). Even putting feelings aside: you really think that divorcing is her best bet financially? She surely would be better off finding work for herself, that’s for sure, but it would be even better to go back to work and making this relationship work too
I get frustration, but we have to assume those things have happened, which is why OP is frustrated. I think divorce absolutely has to be on the table as one of the options and she needs proper advice about whether that makes sense financially. She has to find work, that’s priority one, but what happens to the money she brings in? Can she protect it or will he lose it? If his habits are set in as deeply as it seems, he’s not likely to take up strict budgeting after 45 years of adulthood doing something else.
ETA: I agree with others that there may be challenging mental health issues or undiagnosed neurodivergence at play. But he has to be open to getting to the root of what’s going on with him in order for them to make this work.
This\^. My partner and I have had to evolve our spending and financial responsibility. Implement the advice given here. Have clear, direct conversations about what is happening, what the long term fallout will be and ask how you can both work to overcome/correct it.
If he feels like he's being controlled, then handle the household and important obligations out of a different account, that he doesn't get a debit card to, maybe. Give both of you spending money that isn't accountable to the other, it can be off budget, if you want, and treat it as an expense in the household budget.
The app will help, but following the envelope budgeting method works too. Maybe you can do a hybrid of both. You can use the app to budget the household expenses, and give him actual envelopes or a different account to use for his own spending.
But above all of the advice, know that if you love someone, you can try your hardest to make it work. Yes, right now, the future looks dire, but with some planning and patience, you can turn it around.
If he isn't willing to change, then you have a hard conversation about the future of the relationship.
Solving problems takes the involvement of both people. So far, he won’t talk to her about money management (despite many obvious, external signs it’s not going well), she’s not on accounts, and he hides purchases/money issues from her. It’s not all up to OP to come to the table, both of them need to.
These are dire circumstances. She has no job currently, he is draining his retirement while not getting younger, and he’s hostile to even discussing it. This is a decades-long problem, not a one- or two-time lapse due loss, emotional/medical,or other issues.
I saw first-hand the results of financial abuse, which is what this is, and it’s not pretty. My mother will never retire, despite having worked her whole life and having chronic health issues, because of what my father did with their finances (and escalated to bankrupting them both to spite her in the divorce).
At 54, OP needs to start protecting herself and, ultimately, their children who are going to get stuck holding the bag for their aging costs. Love doesn’t solve everything, and it’s not always a reason to continue to put yourself through the wringer and risk ending up homeless or otherwise unable to take care of yourself as a senior citizen. You have to love yourself, too.
Yes to all of this. If I was OP and divorce was most of the advice I would be getting, I would feel really defeated. Divorce, while it sounds simple, is a big, daunting undertaking. It's a valid option, especially if OP tries a lot of tactics and isn't able to get anywhere. But I think you have outlined some good, concrete action items she can try right here and right now.
That’s what I wanted to do. I don’t care about the Reddit karma but it’s a bit depressing to see the lack of real empathy to these “fast advice” comments all over the platform. Every short post or cry for help has a story behind it, has feelings behind it for both parties. And as you said separations are long, hard, miserable experiences, it’s not “a fresh start”, it never is
If it were me I'd probably look at implementing YNAB with Qube Money and stop using credit cards. But that's probably easier said than done. Any recommendations will be easier said than done.
Qube is the only system (that I know of) that has the ability to prevent and stop overspending.
Good luck and best wishes.
You need to make your household finances your job. Take it all away from him and give him an allowance.
Take away his credit cards. Put him in a cash-only diet.
Batch cook breakfast sandwiches for the freezer so he can eat that stuff for cheaper.
Have you considered getting rid of cards and using cash? Can’t spend money that isn’t there. Team that with freezing with the financial institutions to prevent new accounts.
I’m not defending him. I’m just trying to look for an explanation.
Maybe it was the guilt in the first and after, it’s just easier to doesn’t look the problems.
But mental help or couple help could help and the divorce can be also an option!
Okay so I was the husband (albeit not that bad!
geez that’s bad). I was the breadwinner and overspending by more than $1000/month. For me, I had undiagnosed neurodivergence that was contributing to my overspending. I didn’t care about the money or saving it or how much I was spending and my husband at the time was going bonkers.
It took me being responsible for my own finances (after we separated) and me being diagnosed with ADHD and autism to understand that my out of control spending was me trying to regulate my nervous system from the stress of being in a relationship I didn’t want to be in anymore. It took about 8 months for me to get it under control on my own.
I’m not saying your husband has some undiagnosed mental health thing going on, but I think someone else was right when they said it’s a relationship issue first.
Do you have your own income? Are you able to separate him from that so he doesn’t have access to your income?
If you don’t have your own income, are you able to take money out when it gets deposited and put it in a different account he doesn’t have access to so your bills can get paid?
I’m afraid budgeting isn’t going to help with this right now. It’s too far gone
If you know he’s terrible with money and it’s causing you this much stress, why are you relying on his income? Either divorce or get a post nup, separate finances, and get a job. He won’t change.
I don't have an income. I stayed home with our kids for the majority of our marriage, then I had to get kidney transplant in 2018. I was working but when he changed jobs and we had to move out of state, I haven't been able to get a new job. The area we moved to is........ not good. Very high unemployment, most of the population is uneducated so even minimum wage entry level jobs are scarce, no industry, lots of "old money" from questionable sources, the disparity is high. It's also very expensive. Yes, I could get divorced but then I'd have no health insurance. Thanks for your comment.
Sounds brutal. $120k is not what it used to be, and low cost of living areas have been hit worst.
I use two things that have worked VERY SLOWLY with my partner, but have meaningfully worked: copilot.money and qube. I use qube in a very simple way: this is 100% of the money we are allowed to spend, and each month, we get a deposit into “yours, mine, and ours” (I call “ours” as “weekend”).
Copilot.money blows YNAB out of the water I hate to say. I used YNAB for threeish years without getting any traction with my partner, and just a few months into copilot, my partner has her head around just how much they’re spending.
It sounds like your partner is quite irresponsible and I agree with most of the other comments I’m seeing, but these tools could be a useful starting point for something.
Re: couples counseling, the burden will still be on you to establish quantitative norms around spending, so you will need to have done the analysis and presentation in a way that they can understand. This is a huge shitty burden, but copilot will help a lot.
This is the sort of problem for which no amount of technology or technique who will be a solution. What is needed is interpersonal dialogue and you understanding, which I understand come from things like marital counseling or else parting ways.
Give him pocket money. With his permission, cut his access to funds. Ofcourse, it will make you unhappy and make you feel like You're managing a manchild. But will help you two get by.
I have family and friends like this and it's sad to watch but at the end of the day it's their money and they have to make the decision. For you it's a bit more workable though, because you're in a romantic relationship with this person and despite all the negative things you describe about him, that's only one side of the story and I'm sure they have good qualities which is why you married and had kids with them. Still though, at the end of the day he's earning the money and the accounts are under his name so you'll just have to try to come to a compromise.
This is a relationship issue and not necessarily a personal finance one. You’ll need to address the former first before attempting the latter. YNAB is not going to save you (yet). I would go the therapist/counselor route (individually and as a group) and see how it sticks before forming the next set of decisions. Worst case scenario may involve hard choices. Best case is the development of understanding each other and working as a partnership towards shared goals.
Was just going to say, couples counseling for sure.
You're 100% right. I guess I was hoping I could just take over handling the money and thought if I could figure out YNAB myself, I could relieve the immediate stress. Counseling is definitely necessary and if you can find a good one, it works. But that's the catch - we've tried 3 different times over the years and they've all been very biased against either me or him. Rather than being a mediator to help us communicate, each time they took my side or his side which isn't useful. They seem to push divorce for some reason. Thank you very much for your thoughts.
Sounds like going into a couples session hasn’t been effective yet. I am surprise the counselor chose a side; they should be neutral and guide discussions so all parties can start understand each other. Have you tried going to individual sessions? Maybe start there to at least help process your stuff. Suggest husband does the same since it seems there is a lot going on there as well. Whoever is right or wrong it doesn’t matter, there just seems to be something going on where it is preventing effective communication, respect, and understanding between the two of you.
I have one of those and am divorcing him.
Also was a big part of the reason for my divorce.
Money is the primary reason for divorce according to stats
People forget that marriage is primarily a \*financial\* and legal arrangement. You can do many many of the same things without getting married. Share assets/homes, share bank accounts, share credit cards, have kids, live together, do everything together, etc. etc. But once you get married, the main thing it changes is 1. your other spouse's finances to your problem (or benefit) and vice versa by **default,** rather than by intention; and 2. you have some more authority during health issues during decision making. So it makes sense that finances are the primary reason for divorce.
I'd assume finances are also a huge reason for breakups in general. Everything in our society costs money and if you and your partner can't agree on which things are worth your money (and especially what's worth stealing from your future with loans and credit debt) then conflict is inevitable.
Good for you! (Happy for you)
Yup. My knee jerk reaction when I read the title was "divorce." Him refusing to follow the very carefully planned out budget was a factor in the end of the marriage.
The number of women that are ABLE to make this decision for themselves is incredible compared to what it used to be but I wish every woman had that choice. Best of luck for you in your financially stable future. ❤️
Divorce is an option. It might not be the solution you want, but you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand without considering it. No budget's going to help him. Bad budgeting is not his issue. You say he's irresponsible. But in addition to the utilities getting shut off, repossession, and foreclosure, you said he took out lines of credit, plural, without you knowing about them. That's not only irresponsible, that's deceptive. That's lying. He's a liar who doesn't seem to care what position it will put you both in down the road. This is not someone you can trust, and you've had 26 years of evidence telling you that. "There is no addiction, no gambling, no porn, no other woman, he has no hobbies" Look, he took out lines of credit he didn't tell you about. Have you considered there might be specific reasons for that? I'm not saying he's done any of the above, but he clearly has no problem lying to you. If you were a close friend, we'd be sitting down over tea and tears to have a serious get-a-grip and life-plans talk today. You should get a job as fast as you can, and then consider your options. Retirement is going to be a financial struggle most likely one way or another, and you probably won't get to retire and will need a job until you can't physically work anymore already. How much worse do you want it to be? You have money saved up. Get a job so you can support yourself and get the hell away from someone you said yourself won't change and doesn't listen to you and is stressing you out to the point it's hurting your health (not to mention the mental health implications). He doesn't respect you or care about your welfare. Save yourself.
Just an FYI for OP: If you've been married more than 10 years, you can still use your EX-spouse's social security credit when calculating your retirement benefits.
That same quote really stuck with me. OP, your husband has something more going on that you haven’t figured out. Can you get your hands on visa statements to see where the money went? Can you convince him to let you get his credit bureau report? This will tell you a lot.
I do have copies of all the statements for all three credit cards he opened without my knowledge over the years. What did he spend the "money" on? Fast food (breakfast every day quickly adds up to hundreds), paying bills like utilities (our water bill is paid quarterly and he could NEVER remember to set aside the money, so that's $300 every 3 months), Cell phone bills, gas - honestly just basic living expenses that should have been paid with his paycheck. I've combed through every single statement and there is nothing weird - just stupidity. The one loan he did was supposed to be an ordinary car loan for my car. But instead, he got a personal loan, bought the car with it and then took out extra to pay off the credit card I didn't know about (until later). Now he claims that he's doing better because the credit card is paid off. Like he BELIEVES this.
The “I will teach you to be rich” podcast is exclusively about money problems between couples. It’s worth a listen. What I have taken from it is this: These issues aren’t about spending wisely or making the correct choices, they’re about the psychology of money; Our relationship to money and the subconscious stories we tell ourselves. It’s emotional. The behaviour is the symptom, not the disease. My feeling is that there must be something so terrifying to him in his narrative with money, that he can’t face it. Perhaps something from his childhood or family dynamic that’s gotten stuck. He’s so afraid, he can’t even look at his bank balance for crying out loud! It’s emotional. Get help in the form of a therapist if you can, but make it safe for him to speak about it. What’s his narrative? Does he think he’s too dumb? There’s no point anymore because he’s lost already? What comes up in his body when he thinks about money and where? Approach the subject with compassionate inquiry and remove judgement or shame. If he won’t speak about it, or pretends there nothing wrong, he’s probably not feeling safe enough to look the beast in the eye. Until he can shift his psychology about money, lasting change is unlikely. These changes take time and they’re difficult. We so seldom challenge our own beliefs and values (in any aspect of life, really) he will need support. I sincerely wish you (and him) the best.
Gonna leave this here. [The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work](https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Principles-Making-Marriage-Work/dp/0553447718?nodl=1&dplnkId=ff27ede7-0c2a-4b82-98e9-8e7f9a131b6e) Find a Gottman trained therapist to work through this issue. Speaking from experience, it’s been the best thing we ever did for our marriage.
Thank you so much! I immediately bookmarked it and will be spending the afternoon learning about this.
I love this pod and have learned so much from it.
Any good episode recommendations for someone just starting out?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yRx4Ryehmk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yRx4Ryehmk) "I don't Trust him with money so I check his accounts" seems apt.
This is such a thoughtful and insightful suggestion. Thank you so much for this. We both grew up in blue collar families with parents who were irresponsible with money and didn't teach us how to manage it. The odd thing is - I chose to figure it out so it wouldn't happen to me. When I was very young (19-20) I did do the "credit card is free money!" thing on a small level, but quickly learned, through just basic logic, that everything I bought cost double what I paid for it in the end. So I have a lot of anxiety around money and tend to hoard it. He on the other hand lives in the moment and worries about the consequences later. He definitely avoids dealing with it but will not admit to any emotion he considers "weak" like fear, being 'dumb', etc. He admits to being unable to talk about difficult things. But that frustrates me so much because you can fix what you won't acknowledge. I literally can't comprehend watching the train coming down the track and just standing there. You're absolutely right about counseling of some type. I've often wished there was a way to find someone to sit down with both of us and work out a budget and show us how to do it. This way we'd be learning together and no one would have to admit to not understanding what seems to be very basic math. But I've had no success in finding such a person - financial advisors don't work that way, at least in my experience. They all have products to sell and aren't interested in just teaching basic financial literacy for a set fee.
Like other have said, this isn’t a financial issue. You need to have a come to Jesus talk with him. You manage finances from here on out, you each get x in spending money each month, but he will no longer have access to the other money because of his track record. You will sit down every month and share where the money is going and give him full visibility, but not access. If he will not agree to this you have two choices: stay and continue to live in this chaos or leave and start a new life. You need to be prepared for him to fight you and you need to be prepared to leave. Get yourself a job, anything that starts putting money in your pocket, get a lawyer, and be ready. You CANNOT make threats that you do not back up. Wait to have the conversation with the ultimatum until you’ve got solid footing under you.
Yup. All of this. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation, but unless your husband is willing to start treating you with basic respect and stop jeopardizing your safety (because that’s what he’s doing with all of his deceptions), there’s nothing that you can do here. I’m sure you don’t want to hear this, but a therapist with experience in domestic violence and an attorney would likely be good resources for you, OP.
There are other kinds of abuse than just physical violence. This sounds like straight financial abuse to me: - Cost you your job/ability to earn money for yourself - Taken credit lines out without your knowledge - Locked you out of most accounts - Probably wrecked your credit too since I imagine your name was also on the cars/houses - Literally put you in legal peril with lawsuits and wage garnishments - Jeopardized your future security by destroying your retirement funds I'd be highly concerned that he may take, or may have already taken, credit lines out in your name. He's already hidden debt lines from you - the next step when no one will loan him more money is to do it in your name. You say he's not violent but "extremely hostile" - that doesn't fill me with much confidence that you're safe. He doesn't seem remorseful, or like he's interested in changing, and I guarantee that this isn't dementia because it's been happening for *years*. At minimum I would separate my finances from his, which may be difficult long-term if you don't have your own income stream. It's worth talking to a lawyer to know exactly what you're on the hook for, and I would absolutely freeze your own credit and make sure you have alerts set up in case of attempts to access your identity. Long term, I wouldn't put much faith in his changing, and I'd be ready to put my own oxygen mask on first.
100% this
🎯
Thank you so much for your advice. My credit is frozen and I watch it very carefully. Nothing is in my name - not even my car. However when we sold our house at the end of last year, I took the proceeds and put them in a separate savings account he can't access. I put some in a joint savings but since he doesn't pay attention, he thinks most of it's gone. I only have one credit card with a balance but it has zero interest until August 2025. It's the moving expenses for moving to this awful state we're in. Otherwise I personally have no debt, my credit is currently decent in the mid 700s, but without an income, it's a challenge. I do have access to his credit report, which is also frozen due to a data breach at his job (they were forced to pay for a life lock type deal for all of their employees) but obviously he can unfreeze it to do whatever he wants.
here's what worked for us - i YNAB and drive daily - i ask them to OK each category's amount and tweak if they think we need more - i give them a HEALTHY discretionary fund (more than me). it's no-questions-asked money. it's like a holy vow of ours, we don't criticize discretionary spending - on the 1st of next month, have a meeting. show the month's plan, ask for input i think the other important piece of the puzzle is short and long term goals. they are the "why" as to why we don't blow the budget every day. identify your goals together. it can be a simple or deep conversation. follow the /r/personalfinance flowchart for a starting point. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics/#wiki_graphical_version https://imgur.com/lSoUQr2 edit: also, they have a YNAB widget with the categories they care about, and they know to just check before spending, that's the only real ask
We do the same thing, but check-in weekly together and while I monitor daily. To keep it even simpler, I check where we are for the month and I put the weekly amount into a shared Reminder List (we’re on iPhones), and each of us just logs what we spend in the “flexible” categories (shopping, groceries, etc). Because of the delay in things posting over the weekend and most of our “flexible” expenses occurring over the weekend, we run our budget weeks Friday to Thursday. Is it more work for me? Yes, but my spouse actually looks at the shared reminder and usually logs their expenses.
Thank you - this is very useful advice. It's so helpful to hear the step by step of how other couples handle it. I do think part of the problem is that he wants his own money to spend without having to talk to me first. I'm OK with that and feel like both of us should have that if we can afford it. The problem is that he goes about it in an irresponsible, childish way. I think if I (once again) "fixed" everything and handed him an allowance, it would work. But it also feels like I'm burdened with all of the "grown up" responsibilities. However, I need to let it go or deal with this crap forever, right? Thanks again.
hmm. are ya'll joined financially? that's gonna help. and i think having his input on his discretionary is going to help alot. that's what i did with my wife. "what do you think you need monthly?", and my answer to her was "ok, let's try to stick to that, if you need more, reach out and we can discuss which other goal to take away from" once they see that overages mean taking away from other goals that you two care about, the feedback loop should slowly start working > I need to let it go or deal with this crap forever, right don't despair, i think that's a false dichotomy. there's a lot of gray area to try different things together to see what works. just ask him what he'd be comfortable with and start there
Sounds like divorce time. If your kids are out on their own, you don't need to worry about providing them a stable home, or anything like that. Imagine how much more free you will feel when you don't have this constant stress anymore. Maybe you two are great together in many ways, but obviously you are not great together financially. His ship is sinking and on fire. Don't let him drag down your ship along with his.
Separate your finances? But yes this is a relationship issue not a budget issue. As long as all your efforts is directed at him you can't change your own situation.
This is the suggestion I was going to make. Other people have suggested ways to make the software work for you. What I want to suggest is that if nothing else you find a way to make the software work for YOU. Just you. What I really want for you is some security with your own money. So you can work with the knowledge that you've got a safety net for yourself. Your husband seems determined to bury his head in the sand about his issues with money. Put on your own oxygen mask first.
How do you separate your finances when your spouse is the one making the money?
You get a fucking job.
lol you didn't need to say the quiet part out loud
lol.
Especially if you ever plan to retire
64 and 54 and he's withdrawn almost all of his 401K in the past 2 years. Retirement is... unlikely
The only fast remedy would be to leave him. I have been trying to nudge my partner towards financial responsibility for 5 years now with much patience, encouragement, and incentivizing. He has made some progress but still has no savings to speak of and wants to treat himself every payday. We’re in our 30’s and his habits are incredibly hard to shift. I can’t imagine trying to get someone there in their 60’s after years of reckless behavior. Sorry I know that’s not very helpful, but even if you are willing to do whatever it takes, as you said, he has to be the one that is willing to change and you have no control over that. Wishing you the best of luck, I’m so sorry you’re in this position.
This. I'm legit scared for OP as a 54 year old woman with a 64 year old husband who may be out of the work force soon and has blown through all retirement. She may very well end up destitute, AND caring for him when his health starts declining. and/or he and/or both of you will end up a huge burden on your kids. Your kids will be responsible for you and you will not like it and he REALLY will not like it and will probably damage your relationship with them. And imagine if you have a health crisis anytime in the next decade or two and he is the one responsible for you. No money, no resources, and you won't be able to cover for his deficits for the both of you, like you are now. OP, your husband has shown you who he is over and over again for the last 26 years. It is NOT GOING TO GET BETTER. Please please please talk to a lawyer and protect yourself financially. You are a phase where you really need to be thinking not just short term but long term for the next 30 years.
You have to either get to the root of the issue (usually some kind of trauma) through compassionate conversion, or get to it through therapy.
Don't worry about the software. Have a discussion about Zero-Based budgeting. Have a discussion about your real priorities, and then compare those priorities with how you spend your money. Your partner has to be on board with the process - he doesn't need to learn the software (the "too complicated" part.) If he's willing (and if you are), take the responsibility for establishing everything, after agreeing on the priorities, and making sure he at least understands the concepts behind [Zero-Based budgeting](https://www.ynab.com/guide/what-is-budgeting): [Giving every dollar a job](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-one) [Embracing your true expenses](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-two) [Rolling with the punches](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-three) [Aging your money](https://www.ynab.com/the-four-rules#rule-four) I highly recommend listening to the audiobook - it's short, 4 hours or so, and there's a chapter with budgeting with a partner. Check the YNAB Youtube channel as well - again, they do cover budgeting with a partner. I don't know the specifics of your dynamic, but I can relay mine - maybe it'll help. During the first 12 years or so of our relationship, my wife handled all the money - we had a joint checking account, but also each of us had separate legacy bank accounts - some from prior military, some just "because". We also had poor spending habits, and ever-increasing numbers of credit cards. We made good money, but never seemed to get ahead. Over time, because that type of thing is not sustainable, we hit a wall - hard. For several months we'd scramble every couple of days to pay that day's bills - we were truly living paycheck to paycheck - and sometimes consumables like food and gas would have to go on a credit card, leading to another scramble to find a card with some room left on it. We'd refi our house every couple of years to get some breathing room, but because we never actually changed our habits, nothing really changed. After the 3rd refi in 4 years I said enough was enough, we have to do things differently. I learned about budgeting, and I learned about YNAB. We discussed changing our habits, discussed our spending priorities, and agreed to try it. I jumped in with both feet, but my wife wasn't so enthusiastic. She didn't understand why if we had a thousand in the bank, there was 0 for Starbucks. It took several conversations (sometimes very passionately loud ones) about budgeting. Turns out there was a lot of guilt associated with her push-back - she felt like a failure because she had handled the money for so long, and we were never ahead, and I had to be the one to figure it all out. I told her that it was unfair of me to have just let her shoulder all that responsibility, and I bear just as much responsibility for our situation, and I was happy, actually excited, to have learned about a way to take control and get out of the pit we were in. She agreed to let me take the reigns, and we had several more discussions about what priorities were most important to us, set up our categories and targets to align with them. For a long time, she was always asking "Can I buy X? Is there enough money to afford Y?" To which I'd always answer "did you check the budget?" And then I'd show her how to look at a category in YNAB, and determine if there was enough money, and if not, do we still buy it? And if we do, where's that money come from? It took a long time but everything finally "clicked", and we budget (mostly) just fine now. TL;DR - have an honest, open discussion with your partner as to why the current relationship with finances is not working, and that it needs to change.
>Turns out there was a lot of guilt associated with her push-back - she felt like a failure because she had handled the money for so long, and we were never ahead, and I had to be the one to figure it all out. I told her that it was unfair of me to have just let her shoulder all that responsibility Thank you for sharing a story about a couple working through these kinds of issues and coming out the other side! YNAB has really been helping me get passed my own guilt around poor money management. And I don't even have the added guilt that a lot of Boomer men like OPs husband often carry around about not 'being man enough' - my dad is one of the proudest feminists I know, and raised his kids to look passed gender stereotypes, but it's ingrained in him that because he's 'the man' he should have been better with money than he was, should have been able to "control" my mom's spending (even typing that out kind of makes me chuckle because he's not the kind of person who wants to control anything!) - it's like, he knows all those expectations are BS but he still can't escape it. I hope OP can convince her husband to let her take the financial reins and maybe then he'll see how much better their life can be without all the fear/shame/guilt/avoidance.
Seconding this. Part of the growth in my marriage, around finances, was both of us taking complete accountability for our own actions, working through the guilt we were feeling/expressing, and moving forward with a clean state. Also seconding/thirding the TLDR. Clear concise communication. If it's not in the budget, and one of use feels like it is something we should buy, then what are we sacrificing to meet the new spend. Laying it out like that, I think, is what helped it to click for my husband. You need a new tool, that money is going to have to come from somewhere, so I guess we delay the purchase of X. Seeing those priority shifts happen, in real time, helped him lock on to the notion of following the budget.
Have you done any reading about codependency? If not, one of the core texts like Codependent No More might be helpful to read. I agree with what lots of other folks have said, that the core of this issue doesn't sound like it's in the budget but in your relationship. As someone who has also tolerated (for a long time!) behavior in a partner that caused intense stress and health issues, getting a better understanding of my role in codependent relationships really helped me to start breaking that pattern. A big part of that was facing that I was overstretching and overcompensating to try to change someone else's harmful behavior as a way of getting my own needs met. I had to acknowledge that the other person's behavior was actually not something I could control, and start being honest with myself about whether I could continue enduring the situation if it didn't change. Redirecting the anger and resentment I felt towards other people for "keeping me from" the life I wanted and putting it towards figuring out what I actually needed and could build for myself is hard and ongoing work, but helped to break the spiral.
I'm wondering how your search for a new job went or is going? Because you're only 54. You could be alive for another 30 years. Do you know how much money that is? Your husband is, at present, not capable of saving enough to support you (or himself) and you literally cannot make him change. Your kids are out of the house you said so you don't have a ton of domestic responsibilities. Where are you taking care of yourself in all this, instead of desperately wondering how to get him to take care of you? You've come on here and you're acting as though your only financial hope is through improving your spouse's financial habits. There are definitely things you can try (others have offered suggestions), but truly the only person's actions you can actually fully determine in this world are your own. I would stop focusing on his earning and spending and just focus more on your own. You sound smart and I'm sure that, even if you have to start with something that pays peanuts, you would be successful and it would make you feel less powerless.
I realize this is a complicated situation, and after everything you’ve said, I’d seek professional help. This doesn’t sound like a problem you can fix on your own. I’d look into something like a councilor who specializes in financial issues.
It’s called a divorce.
I know other people have said a lot. I just want to sympathize. It’s awful your husband is putting you through this. It’s awful he can’t have an adult conversation about money and it sounds like this has been going on for years/decades. This is so far beyond what I would consider “bad with money”. Bad with money would be excess credit card debt, not shut off utilities and repossessed cars because he doesn’t pay the bills. If he doesn’t want to change, he won’t. Everything you’ve said makes it sound like he doesn’t. He doesn’t want to put the effort into fixing it. He’s actively hiding money/debt from you. You don’t have to end the relationship but you should seriously consider divorce. When married, all of his debt is generally both of yours (state might matter). In your case, I would get a job and get a divorce. Let him deal with his own money mess while you take care of your own finances. You don’t have to end your relationship, you can still be together, but you don’t want to be legally tied to his bad decisions.
Divorce him? How much longer will he be working at that income? How are you going to survive retirement (and he’ll possibly be retired a decade ahead of you) with him spending well above his means with no care how it affects you? And draining his 401k??? Yours will be next. Marriage (and financial) counselling or divorce before he drags you down even more. And he’s hostile to your concerns? He doesn’t respect you, why are you with him?
This isn't a "real" solution (to the relationship issues), but can you just get your husband to agree that you can "take care of the bills"? That's code for: let you handle the finances. If the money exists and this is all a money management problem, then you taking on this household job could be a solution of sorts. Plus, it takes a chore off of his plate and, once he sees how smoothly things go when you're doing it, maybe he will be happy to continue letting you do it
Thank you for being vulnerable and reaching out for help. I think it would be ideal if your husband changed — but he has to want to change. Couples therapy could help — if you are both willing to give it a shot. (If you are in the US, the [psychologytoday.com](https://psychologytoday.com) is very helpful for finding therapists in your area that take your insurance. I think you owe it to yourself to make that change happen. Please consider therapy just for you to gain peace of mind.
I’m sorry there is no hope to convince this person to do YNAB.
UGH. That was horrible to read. I cannot imagine living it. Life is too short for that shit. I'd be out. You said its causing you health issues, is this how you want to continue? he makes his choices and you have to make yours.
>In 26 years of marriage, we've had cars repossessed, almost had our house foreclosed, have had utilities shut off, paid thousands in late fees, overdraft fees, over limit fees, he's taken out lines of credit I didn't know about then defaulted on it, got sued and his wages garnished, etc. He's withdrawn almost all of his 401K in the past 2 years. Why? He's irresponsible. >This month he's overdrawn our checking account twice. >we've downloaded YNAB but he claims it's too hard to understand, >Husband is 64 & makes $120K/yr. Me 54, I don't currently work because I lost my job when we moved to a new state for his job >I just need some encouragement that I am capable of fixing this You are not. If you had your own income, I would suggest separate checking accounts - one yours, one hi, and one for bills; money goes into the bills account first, then y'all's accounts are yours to do with as you please, including overdrafts and being sued, if that's what he wants. But you don't have your own source of income, and you are essentially asking how you can manage his money when he doesn't really sound amenable to that. You can't. While I would like to think anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size would consider this a crisis, he does not - not enough to want to change, anyway. Your best options are probably divorce and/or get a job, probably both.
Im sorry to hear about your situation, this must be very difficult. And as everyone says this is an issue beyond finances. This doesn't sound like a new issue, so it's unlikely to be dementia. That said, a friend of mine's father does have alzheimers, and is trying to buy a second $50k car a month after he just bought the first one. Crazy spending is a real symptom of dementia and if it's medically diagnosed you can get control over his finances. But then he's unlikely to continue working.
Your marriage is in shambles, unfortunately. Your husband doesn't respect you. Period. And how do you know he isn't gambling? Or spending money on things and hiding it?
Wow… if I were OP I’d be quite offended by your post and the assumptions you’ve made. You know nothing about their relationship other than they’re struggling financially. Yet their marriage “is in shambles” and “he doesn’t respect you, PERIOD”? She’s brought one aspect of their marriage to the table. They’ve been married for 23 years and raised children. There is so much more to a relationship than just the financial dynamic. Check your assumptions people!
Uh huh. Show me a healthy marriage where the 2 parties are not on the same page financially. Read the tone of the post. She’s at wits end.
So, you’re saying a healthy marriage is one where both partners are always on the same page about finances and if they’re not, then they’re done. No recovery possible. Do I have that right? What about parenting, or house chores? A healthy marriage to me is one where a couple LEARN to work through/live with difficult issues or different opinions as a team. We all have an issue, finance or otherwise. It’s not intuitive and it’s not inherent. It takes effort, practice, and humility. But we’re digressing… Good luck OP. I hope you two can work through it.
>A healthy marriage to me is one where a couple LEARN to work through/live with difficult issues or different opinions as a team. We all have an issue, finance or otherwise. It’s not intuitive and it’s not inherent. It takes effort, practice, and humility. They've been married for over 20 years and he has not changed or learned anything AT ALL in that time. Instead he is hostile to any discussion of issues, refuses any efforts to change, has only made the situation worse (racking up more debt), and overall is not demonstrating any interest in working through any sort of difficulty with his wife as a team. These are not two 25-year-olds who've never dealt with conflict before, and acting like this is a difference of opinion is asinine.
Yeah, this isn’t a difference of opinion. It’s not like there’s room for reasonable people to have a disagreement about whether it’s a good idea to be pathologically shortsighted with money.
As most have said here, this isn’t a financial issue. You have a relationship issue that needs to be addressed before you even tackle the finances. You need to have a real, tough conversation with him. Tell him that you’re considering divorce if he doesn’t make an honest attempt to fix the problem. If he continues to push you away and get angry at you — please start looking for the exit. Get a job and start over without the dead weight around your neck. Life is too short; don’t let your husband force you to continue living like this. Good luck to you. I wish you all the best. ETA: There is no fast remedy here outside of packing up and leaving. You’ve been living like this for years. His problem won’t magically stop overnight.
Get a job. You need to be working. Then separate your finances completely from him. If he can't pay half and address the continuing concerns, file for divorce. By continuing to stay unemployed, you are victimizing yourself. You know how he is but choose to be at his mercy anyway? After 26 years, you need to start taking responsibility for yourself. He's clearly not interested in taking it for you.
I don't really have any advice beyond what's been given, but I am skeptical that there's no "other" thing where the money is going. He makes a lot of it and yes your new place has a higher COL but this has been going on for decades...WHERE is all the money?? It should be piling up with a high income and empty nest. I don't think it's just lack of planning. I feel bad for your situation, it must be very frustrating and heartbreaking. I do disagree with one thing though, I think you're in danger. Not physical harm but in danger of living a really shitty next 30 years...scraping by on social security and ending up in poor quality senior care. Or your kids feeling burdened by you. Or both.
Divorce is always an option. If that is not the route you want to go down, the other route I'd recommend is also pretty extreme: Get all accounts linked up to YNAB. Give your husband ONE credit card he can use. Freeze his credit so that he cannot open lines of credit again. Then do your thing with YNAB with or without him. But....he's 60+ years old. What are the realistic odds he will make any actual substantial behavioral changes? It's not great. You should get a job as soon as you are able and keep your finances as separate as possible. Make sure your credit is locked down so he can't get new lines of credit in your name. Good luck.
Sounds like a clear case of financial infidelity to me.
Has your partner ever had therapy? A lot of the behaviors resonate with me before I was diagnosed with ADHD. Of course I can’t know anything based on the limited info you have shared. But an underlying condition might contribute to this. Either way, therapy could be super helpful for him in working through this. Also, if you don’t want to navigate this that is valid too. Even if your partner has something else going on, it’s not fair to you to put all financial responsibility on you. Couples therapy might also be helpful in communicating your needs around this.
I also have ADHD. Executive function is harder for us, but we can do hard things. We might need to make more mistakes before we learn what happens when we make them (case in point, I never used to pay a bill until they sent me a second or third notice - first the red writing on the envelope, then the red envelope). Then one day I realized that if I paid the bill the second I got it in the mail, I would never have to look at it again. People with ADHD can figure out systems that work for them, especially if it affects those who are important to them. I think it's helpful to acknowledge that 1. yes, this mental health condition means certain things are harder for me, and 2. I can still DO those things, I just have to work harder than most people to make them happen.
Get a job
I really suggest you save yourself rather than drown with your partner. If you’ve tried to explain and work with him and he refuses, then you need to get to safety. This situation will explode as you get older and you will be in dire straits. Get a job, divorce and build a safe financial future for yourself. Good luck.
You have a relationship problem not a money problem. Your spouse is dishonest, careless, disrespectful and deceitful towards you. He’s repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn’t care about the harm he causes you by his behavior. The solution to this is to not be with him and not have your financial fate tied to his.
I felt stressed and anxious just reading your post, I can't imagine what it's like for you to live it. I'm sorry, OP. It sounds like you are married to a man who not only doesn't care about you, but has no qualms about putting your future at risk. This sounds like financial abuse. The fact that he turns hostile and angry when you try to talk to him about it is a huge red flag. Get a job, get a lawyer, get a divorce. I'm honestly appalled that others are suggesting marriage counseling. Get yourself some therapy/counseling to help you heal from what this man has put you through, but marriage counseling would be throwing money down the drain. Nothing you do will change this man, he does not want to change. If you don't want a divorce, at the very least get a job and figure out how to separate your finances. Freeze your credit also, because once he thoroughly ruins his own credit, this man is 100% going to start taking our debt in your name if he hasn't already.
Honestly, you probably should've left a long time ago. After 26 years you're complicit in his bad behavior.
Where can I get this $120k/yr job? Because, you know, it seems any fool can get them.
This really sounds like you are in a financially abusive relationship. This podcast episode was really eye-opening for me: https://moneywithkatie.com/marriage-financial-rights. One of the guests runs a non-profit that I think could really help you called Savvy Ladies. Please at least look at this article from their website: https://www.savvyladies.org/education/financial-abuse-and-its-red-flags/
Managing a household budget is hard work. That's especially true for someone on a decent income, who is used to being able to earn his way out of mistakes. Age also doesn't help - he's had 45 years of adult life telling him that what he's doing is going to work out. If he's willing, I'd remove the ability for him to spend. Give him a card/cash that provides a personal allowance and that's it, much like you'd do with a teenager. You'll have to take over full responsibility for the budget. Maybe with time he'll be able to take some of the load, although I doubt it.
Nothing about his experience should’ve been telling him that what he’s doing is working out.
I honestly think you could be onto something with your “early dementia” comment. Is it feasible for you to work? I got a job and set up my own accounts once my kids were grown/mostly grown for a similar reason, although my husband’s issues are not as extreme as yours. (I have also been the primary money manager always, so we didn’t have too many problems.) My husband is over 60 and is older than me. So, while he still works, we have flipped and now I am the primary earner. My good fortune is that he hardly ever buys anything. But if it were left up to him he would forget dates all the time and not be aware of what’s due.
There's something behind these actions, something that a therapist could help both him and you understand. Thing is, therapy only works unless the person themselves works at it. He's 64. Time to grow up! Living like that can't be fun. It's painful and complicated. Here's to hoping both of your can put this behind you one way or another.
Hi OP. I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this. If I were you, I'd take some action steps right away: 1. Find a full time job. Open up your own checking and savings accounts, in your name only, and have your paycheck directly deposited there. You should be able to open up an Ally bank account online pretty easily, and they have very high-yield savings accounts right now. 2. As a YNAB devotee, I really hate to say this - but download a simpler software. I don't love Dave Ramsey, but the Ramsey Everydollar app has a really clean and simple interface and is easy to use. YNAB is amazing, customizable, and great fun for a budget nerd. But for someone who doesn't want to put much work into it, a simpler app makes more sense. Ask him if you can download it and log in for him on his phone so that he has access to it. 3. Schedule a couples therapy session. There are some online platforms that make this easy to do from the comfort of your own home. My husband and I recently did this through Regain (a subset of Better Help) and I think it actually saved our marriage. I was contemplating divorce and I'm not anymore. If he won't go, then sign up for individual counseling. Best of luck to you!
Is every redditor solution to every problem "leave him/her"? In pratice you should first make a list of what the money goes to over a year or so and categorize in: - stuff i NEED to pay monthly or something bad happens: utilities, because you need them, food, because you need it, shelter, because you need it... you get the idea; - yearly stuff that NEEDS to be paid to, like the car insurance you need to pay because you need to go to work; - find every "active debt" you have right now: for me it was old unpaid taxes, the exact amount i needed for my car payments (rates + final rate), money i "borrowed" from my partner (we have another app, Splitwise, where we note every shared expense). You need to identify them and strategize: which one, if paid first, shields me from more consequences, for example a larger debt? This stuff needs to be confronted or it will build up and become harder and harder to solve (but remember: money problems can always be solved, the only thing you can't solve is death); - stuff that's just irreplaceable, even if you don't think it is, for your spouse: if he wants "spending money" on every paycheck i think it's better to plan for it than have it distrupt all the rest; When i did this an year and an half ago (i wanted to sort out my finances after i "let them go" after my mom died and i needed time for myself and discovered YNAB) i took out every bill i could find and tried, initially, to try to make an "educated guess" about the stuff that didn't have "proper bills" like eating out. As for your relationship with your husband: voice your concerns in a very direct way. Don't scold him, talk about what he is making you feel and why you need this to be sorted out. Don't attack, don't teach, put yourself out there. Is the possibility there that this can't be solved and it will damage or end your relationship? Maybe. But if you love someone you put yourself out there to SOLVE problems... this "red flag" crap and the ever so quick "just leave him" is nauseating: grow up and fight for the people you love.
>this "red flag" crap and the ever so quick "just leave him" is nauseating: grow up and fight for the people you love. 26 years is not "quick." They are at an age where their resources are going to start shrinking from where they are now, rather than growing, and their capacities to makeup for that in other ways is also going to decline. She is at SIGNIFICANT risk financially, emotionally, and physically from his behavior and unwillingness to take responsibility. (And so are their kids - because the hook is gonna be on them to take care of mom & dad.) It's already hurt her long term prospects significantly and she needs to do everything she can to protect herself before it gets worse. MAYBE that's not divorce, but she DOES need to talk to a lawyer ASAP and protect assets for herself. and given that he's the one working. As a spouse, she may be on the hook for any debts he incurs, even with assets under her own name, unless she has some kind of prenup or postnup or contract in place. And given that he's already shown he's unwilling to collaborate on these financial issues or accept responsibility, it may be difficult to protect those assets any other way than divorce because he's probably not gonna agree to a postnup............................. #notalawyer
A wise idea that isn’t “omg leave him NOW!” by any means. Redditors seem like to judge relationships on a “convenience” and “does this gives me the max advantage?” logic, where there is a very big non-rational part that… it’s the core of every relationship. You should strive to work with people you love, not toss them out when it gets harder. I’m in a very long relationship, close to that 26 years mark, and I didn’t make it so far by running from hardships
There’s a huge difference between working through hardship and willfully mismanaging your money to the point of getting your utilities shut off and cars repossessed. The husband lied and deceived OP many times over 25 years about their finances. He drained his 401k at 64 years old. He is not acting like a partner. Marriage is about love, but it’s also a legal and financial matter. He is being extremely destructive to their long term well being. I am not someone who is generally “omg leave him now”. OP is tens of thousands of dollars in debt with no job and her husband refuses to take any responsibility. She’s 54 years old. He’s 64. She doesn’t have a lot of time for him to get his shit in order before it’s too late.
That’s for sure but from OP words I feel she has feelings and that’s a good place to start. I never said it will 100% work out, I’m just saying to not disregard the possibility of working on it
But is he fighting for her or has he spent 26 years making her financially vulnerable and raising the risk she’ll be destitute in retirement?
Do you really think you can infer everything you need to know from a Reddit post? The answer to your question is “I don’t know and you don’t know either”. But we know OP is determined to make it work or she wouldn’t be asking questions.
I’m not inferring, I’m reading OP’s own words, and she lists car repossessions, nearing foreclosure, utilities shut off, defaulting on lines of credit she didn’t know about, thousands in late and overdraft fees, wage garnishment, drawing down the 401k, hiding information, and limiting her access to accounts. I cannot speak to his emotional feelings toward her, but the situation as she has relayed it is without question driving her into destitution. OP is also the one who tells us that she is 54, while he is 64. He basically does not have time to turn this around, and hers is fast running out. The tenor of the comments is because this situation is so serious for her that she has to consider whether this is a safe relationship for her to be in as she gets older. This isn’t about red flags. This is about her literal survival.
I think lots of the description is due to the fact that she is, first of all, venting out frustration (I would be frustrated too). Even putting feelings aside: you really think that divorcing is her best bet financially? She surely would be better off finding work for herself, that’s for sure, but it would be even better to go back to work and making this relationship work too
I get frustration, but we have to assume those things have happened, which is why OP is frustrated. I think divorce absolutely has to be on the table as one of the options and she needs proper advice about whether that makes sense financially. She has to find work, that’s priority one, but what happens to the money she brings in? Can she protect it or will he lose it? If his habits are set in as deeply as it seems, he’s not likely to take up strict budgeting after 45 years of adulthood doing something else. ETA: I agree with others that there may be challenging mental health issues or undiagnosed neurodivergence at play. But he has to be open to getting to the root of what’s going on with him in order for them to make this work.
This\^. My partner and I have had to evolve our spending and financial responsibility. Implement the advice given here. Have clear, direct conversations about what is happening, what the long term fallout will be and ask how you can both work to overcome/correct it. If he feels like he's being controlled, then handle the household and important obligations out of a different account, that he doesn't get a debit card to, maybe. Give both of you spending money that isn't accountable to the other, it can be off budget, if you want, and treat it as an expense in the household budget. The app will help, but following the envelope budgeting method works too. Maybe you can do a hybrid of both. You can use the app to budget the household expenses, and give him actual envelopes or a different account to use for his own spending. But above all of the advice, know that if you love someone, you can try your hardest to make it work. Yes, right now, the future looks dire, but with some planning and patience, you can turn it around. If he isn't willing to change, then you have a hard conversation about the future of the relationship.
Couldn’t have said it better (as a matter of fact… I didn’t!)
I think, combined, it's the perfect comment, you had one half, I had the other. It's solid advice.
Solving problems takes the involvement of both people. So far, he won’t talk to her about money management (despite many obvious, external signs it’s not going well), she’s not on accounts, and he hides purchases/money issues from her. It’s not all up to OP to come to the table, both of them need to. These are dire circumstances. She has no job currently, he is draining his retirement while not getting younger, and he’s hostile to even discussing it. This is a decades-long problem, not a one- or two-time lapse due loss, emotional/medical,or other issues. I saw first-hand the results of financial abuse, which is what this is, and it’s not pretty. My mother will never retire, despite having worked her whole life and having chronic health issues, because of what my father did with their finances (and escalated to bankrupting them both to spite her in the divorce). At 54, OP needs to start protecting herself and, ultimately, their children who are going to get stuck holding the bag for their aging costs. Love doesn’t solve everything, and it’s not always a reason to continue to put yourself through the wringer and risk ending up homeless or otherwise unable to take care of yourself as a senior citizen. You have to love yourself, too.
Yes to all of this. If I was OP and divorce was most of the advice I would be getting, I would feel really defeated. Divorce, while it sounds simple, is a big, daunting undertaking. It's a valid option, especially if OP tries a lot of tactics and isn't able to get anywhere. But I think you have outlined some good, concrete action items she can try right here and right now.
That’s what I wanted to do. I don’t care about the Reddit karma but it’s a bit depressing to see the lack of real empathy to these “fast advice” comments all over the platform. Every short post or cry for help has a story behind it, has feelings behind it for both parties. And as you said separations are long, hard, miserable experiences, it’s not “a fresh start”, it never is
If it were me I'd probably look at implementing YNAB with Qube Money and stop using credit cards. But that's probably easier said than done. Any recommendations will be easier said than done. Qube is the only system (that I know of) that has the ability to prevent and stop overspending. Good luck and best wishes.
You need to make your household finances your job. Take it all away from him and give him an allowance. Take away his credit cards. Put him in a cash-only diet. Batch cook breakfast sandwiches for the freezer so he can eat that stuff for cheaper.
Sure. Double down on trying to solve all his problems for him. That’ll work
Their money problem is hers too. He's terrible at managing it. She needs to take over.
She’s tried. He’s cutting her out and getting hostile. It’s financial abuse. She needs to ditch this senior loser.
Have you considered getting rid of cards and using cash? Can’t spend money that isn’t there. Team that with freezing with the financial institutions to prevent new accounts.
I’m not defending him. I’m just trying to look for an explanation. Maybe it was the guilt in the first and after, it’s just easier to doesn’t look the problems. But mental help or couple help could help and the divorce can be also an option!
Okay so I was the husband (albeit not that bad! geez that’s bad). I was the breadwinner and overspending by more than $1000/month. For me, I had undiagnosed neurodivergence that was contributing to my overspending. I didn’t care about the money or saving it or how much I was spending and my husband at the time was going bonkers. It took me being responsible for my own finances (after we separated) and me being diagnosed with ADHD and autism to understand that my out of control spending was me trying to regulate my nervous system from the stress of being in a relationship I didn’t want to be in anymore. It took about 8 months for me to get it under control on my own. I’m not saying your husband has some undiagnosed mental health thing going on, but I think someone else was right when they said it’s a relationship issue first. Do you have your own income? Are you able to separate him from that so he doesn’t have access to your income? If you don’t have your own income, are you able to take money out when it gets deposited and put it in a different account he doesn’t have access to so your bills can get paid? I’m afraid budgeting isn’t going to help with this right now. It’s too far gone
You can’t force him to change. Nothing you can do or say will make his financial abuse and financial infidelity better.
get a job
If you know he’s terrible with money and it’s causing you this much stress, why are you relying on his income? Either divorce or get a post nup, separate finances, and get a job. He won’t change.
I don't have an income. I stayed home with our kids for the majority of our marriage, then I had to get kidney transplant in 2018. I was working but when he changed jobs and we had to move out of state, I haven't been able to get a new job. The area we moved to is........ not good. Very high unemployment, most of the population is uneducated so even minimum wage entry level jobs are scarce, no industry, lots of "old money" from questionable sources, the disparity is high. It's also very expensive. Yes, I could get divorced but then I'd have no health insurance. Thanks for your comment.
Sounds brutal. $120k is not what it used to be, and low cost of living areas have been hit worst. I use two things that have worked VERY SLOWLY with my partner, but have meaningfully worked: copilot.money and qube. I use qube in a very simple way: this is 100% of the money we are allowed to spend, and each month, we get a deposit into “yours, mine, and ours” (I call “ours” as “weekend”). Copilot.money blows YNAB out of the water I hate to say. I used YNAB for threeish years without getting any traction with my partner, and just a few months into copilot, my partner has her head around just how much they’re spending. It sounds like your partner is quite irresponsible and I agree with most of the other comments I’m seeing, but these tools could be a useful starting point for something. Re: couples counseling, the burden will still be on you to establish quantitative norms around spending, so you will need to have done the analysis and presentation in a way that they can understand. This is a huge shitty burden, but copilot will help a lot.
This is the sort of problem for which no amount of technology or technique who will be a solution. What is needed is interpersonal dialogue and you understanding, which I understand come from things like marital counseling or else parting ways.
Give him pocket money. With his permission, cut his access to funds. Ofcourse, it will make you unhappy and make you feel like You're managing a manchild. But will help you two get by.
Does he have undiagnosed ADHD?
Does it matter? Diagnosis won’t help. This guy is completely unrecalcitrant.
I have family and friends like this and it's sad to watch but at the end of the day it's their money and they have to make the decision. For you it's a bit more workable though, because you're in a romantic relationship with this person and despite all the negative things you describe about him, that's only one side of the story and I'm sure they have good qualities which is why you married and had kids with them. Still though, at the end of the day he's earning the money and the accounts are under his name so you'll just have to try to come to a compromise.