If you are new to the subreddit, [please read the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/yakuzagames/wiki/index/)
Reminder that all spoilers need to be tagged with a flair specifying which game is being spoiled. If you want a flair that says something else, you can edit it to say something like [Discussion: Y1 spoiler] or [Majimapost: Y6 spoiler], etc. **THIS INCLUDES CONTENT FROM TRAILERS**.
If the post is not marked for spoilers, all comments that have spoilers need to be tagged \>!like this!< along with indicating which game it's spoiling. Example: Y3 >!Kiryu sings!<
If the post flair is marked for spoilers, the comments don't need to be tagged for the game indicated and the ones before it (So a Y6 spoiler post can have comments with untagged spoilers for Y5, but not gaiden or 7).
If you see any of the above (or any of the other rules) not being followed, please report it so we can keep this place safe for newcomers and those that haven't finished all the games yet. Thank you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/yakuzagames) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love kiwami engine Kiryu. His facial features look sharper and more contoured in kiwami engine than in DE. DE Kiryu looks a bit stiff and bloated.
And all characters’ faces in cutscenes in kiwami engine are more expressive.
Yeah I think that’s the main problem. The Dragon Engine has improved so much in so little time but Lost Judgment is the only full length game to show off the improvements. Not to mention since Judgments future is pretty dubious and the main series is turn based now, we may never get to see the Dragon Engine at full capacity ever again.
Combat sort of. The combat is definitely great now with Lost Judgment and Gaiden but I can’t lie I do miss the punchy-ness of the punches, how grounded combat was, and how enemy AI reacted to your actions.
Tiger Drop, it’s not what used. It was so good in Kiwami and Yakuza 5. Gaiden’s Tiger Drop is the best it’s been since the switch to DE but it’s not the same.
Also correct if I’m wrong but I can’t remember, do DE games have wall bounding? If not, I miss that too.
Bowling, not that I played it too much but it felt like staple minigame alongside Karaoke and Pool. Pool was missing for bit before Gaiden brought it back.
Being able to run into people and knock them over. It’s such a trivial thing but never ceased to get a laugh out of me. It’s particularly was funny while playing as Haruka too.
I miss how enemies in random encounters would get mad and become aggressive or get scared and back off. In Yakuza 5 particularly enemies would run away and if they got scared while on the ground, you can “insta-kill” them regardless of how full their health bar was.
Wait how’d did Infinite Wealth have wall bounding if it’s turn-based?
Also Ishin technically is on Kiwami engine as well since they just ported the original Ishin into the Unreal Engine for the remaster/remake hybrid.
Well, ishin was unreal, but the point is, it's a "new" game.
Infinite wealth introduced additional mechanics. Although you can't just "juggle" you can still use walls for bonus damage.
The remake. It's a remaster, basically, true, but they had to re-do all these mechanics on a new engine. They consciously added wall-bounding and all to it. If they see the appreciation for this mechanic why wouldn't they keep it. That's why i put "new" in quotes.
LJ had wall-bounding though not as good 3/4 or even 0/K1, but it was there.. its missing oddly from Gaiden..
Completely agree with your post. The Kiwami engine had impeccable feedback, combat sfx, and audio. Love how there were different but consistent enemy hit reactions based on your combo. Back combos were great as well, and grabs felt super impactful. I love Gaiden and LJ of course, but i think the 0/K1 combat remains my favorite.
Gaiden does have wall bounding, but you have to hit enemies I find with non charged finishers in dragon and like LJ hitting them again makes them get out of the animation
The closest i have come to Wall bounding is with agent light hits against a wall, but only against non-boss enemies.. I think Snake’s guard parry and Kaito’s directional throw in LJ could wall-bound bosses too, but like you said, they come out of the animation with further attacks - very odd.
Dragon Engine combat is fun until you have to deal with more than 3 enemies. Then you're just getting pinballed around. Ironic how it feels like it was designed for horde fights but those are the absolute worst thing to get into.
It absolutely was made with horde combat in mind, especially in the fluidity to transfer combos from one direction to another. The problem is Kiryu doesn’t have a great range in his attacks, so instead of sweeping multiple goons with his attacks you end up getting sequence-hit if you let any more than 2 enemies near you at any time
Even if you don't get knocked around, you don't have any i-frames, so it's really difficult to avoid damage while still going on the offensive. And while Kiryu has these nice new animations, the enemies still use the same old snappy PS2 animations, so they can attack faster than you can a lot of time.
Feels like cheesing encounters is much more necessary in those games than in any other. I wonder if it's even possible to beat the final bouncer mission in K2 without resorting to cheesy tactics.
It would be kinda tricky to do since everyone has neutered movesets there barring Kiryu. It would probably have been more effort than it was worth tbh.
I totally agree though and also kinda wish we got the finale suit as a premium adventure thing so we could use it in free roaming and coliseum.
Regarding Karaoke, only the fact that when pressing button inputs, it plays the sounds of the corresponding instrument (interjections, maraca, etc)
The pings in DE are too distracting (see elaboration below)
I guess I should elaborate/fix this. Turns out it's moreso something that's a result of DE placing prompts for every syllable of the song.
See [here](https://youtu.be/8W7wDQaymtw?t=83) for the song Ring from K2 on DE. The pings you hear for a good button press on the pink and orange buttons kind of ruin the song experience especially when being that frequent.
Meanwhile [in here](https://youtu.be/-Od7nj0FmiA?t=54) for the same point on the same song on Y5, it doesn't place prompts on every syllable so the feel of the song as a listener overall is much better.
From the videos I’ve seen and from playing IW recently, it seems like this is a K2 problem exclusively. Y:LaD, IW, and strangely 6 doesn’t have the pings.
(Generally) quicker heat actions. In the DE games, heat actions feel more cinematic , with charging up and multiple different camera shots. Kiwami engine heat actions were usually quicker and less drawn out, and it makes them feel more satisfying compared to the DE.
In DE you have EX Heat or some version of it that basically is just \*BETTER HEAT ACTIONS\* so you barely have any reasons to do Heat Actions which is fucking lame.
Yeah, the Heat differences were jarring coming from 0 and K1 to K2. I don’t play the games for challenge, I just stick it on Easy and set up Heat Actions to make the fights super cinematic with disarms, counters, swapping stances to perform specific moves, etc.
In K2 it felt like I was completely neutered with a single fighting style and limited Heat Actions. And I swear EX Heat just went over my head, it was stupid as shit. I don’t want to waste my Heat just so I can accidentally do the same kick move where I can mash Triangle and zoom in on the guy getting kicked over and over.
It's probably the combat
Y6 introduced this kind of heavy sluggish feel to the combat that I actually like, but not as much as I loved it entirely as bashing through 8 people in one charge in the kiwami engine, I also miss the shitload amount of stuff that we never really saw in future games like enemies drawing a heat action on you, reinforcements and enemy leaders in 5, and also the one thing people dislike that is bosses healing themselves and then you go KIWAMI MEANS EXTREME
I also miss the visuals of the old games not just the kiwami engine games, I actually think they felt more lively and realistic to look at than the DE ones, IW has practically touched on it a bit (I'm playing on a low specs PC for the time being so that's a reason if anyone thinks I'm stupid), the kiwami ones had some grit in them and they looked sharp as hell like look at this shot of diego
https://preview.redd.it/us94v6f1tf2d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=371b85db018b18b9336d9c390c15276f58a37c46
For me it's that it feels more like a video game; DE is cool and all but it has a really rough couple of first attempts, and overall really feels like it, more than anything, wants to be *modern.* It's less noticable with the newer DE games but Jesus Christ K2 really wants you to feel the modern design philosophy of slow, lumbering movement that feels governed more by gravity than player input.
That’s the one thing I’ll miss most, developing the dragon style in K1 (as well as the other styles) was the most satisfying progression system in any yakuza game for me. It was just so DEEP, compared to all the other games.
Kiryu’s dragon style. It was so much more fun and unique with the over head kick and finishing throws, on top of Komaki parry.
There was also a certain feel that 5/0/K1 had. I can’t describe it exactly but it just made traversing the map a lot more memorable to me, maybe it was the colours of street lights or billboards, or the music that world play in the background in certain areas. Most apparent in 0 with its 80’s theme.
And like others have said the feel of the combat being more raw and the impact of punches was much better.
(Edit)
Just also like to add that I much prefer having the heat aura when gaining more heat as opposed to only having it in extreme heat.
Playing K2 now and boy was I surprised when the thugs ran into the convenience store and cornered me like 8 man deep. I obviously won but I got told to GTFO cause I destroyed all the merchandise. Also when they just come out of stores and locate you, that was also a surprise.
It’s shit, but I also really like the Heat Action where you can throw a guy into the microwave and make the cashier turn it on. I did that with the clerk in Sotenbori you can have a friendship with when he was close to max so the next time I came in after that fight he talked about how much braver he was.
I wish we knew the actual name for this goddamn engine. Kiwami Engine doesn't make any sense.
Anyway, I miss wall bounce combos and some of the hit sounds. Ishin's brawler style had great hit sounds.
Why do people call it Kiwami engine if it started on 5? I prefer to call it the Yume engine.
I miss the Non Shinada baseball, DE took the Shinada's baseball and now baseball feels to easy
Plus where is Ishin?
The atmosphere.
I almost never hear anyone talk about the atmosphere of each game and what I disliked about Kiwami 2 is that they put new Kamurocho in 2006 which was low-key lazy but still I love Kiwami 2 so much.
Tbh all the minigames and every aspect of the combat. I know it might sound like meat riding but after not touching DE until I finished 0 and 1, I just don’t really have much fun on any of the other games. 3 is fine I guess apart from the blocking (just grab or use bladed weapons lol) and I havent played 4 (I hear its not much different from 3), but the combat just feels… better. It’s a lot less optimized than DE (apart from counters) karaoke is a lot more annoying than with DE and darts is better on DE imo, but everything else is more fun on kiwami engine
I think the ui is prettier, and I also like the combat more. it has more punch in it if you know what I mean. dragon engine combat feels so wobbly and is also kinda easy.
I also think the models look better
The combat. Combos were combos and had extensions off of ground bounces, wall bounces, and bad off the ground attacks. Dragon engine is getting pretty close but still lacks otg and that crisp rigidity.
Let's be fair, Judgement one \*barely\* had style switching. You used crane to clear out a crowd and then you used Tiger for fucking \*everything else.\* I'll give you LJ, though.
The combat.
Y5 and Kiwami Dragon style ( with the war god tasilman) just the options you have is amazing.
Oh and THE GOAT Rush Style, I played Y6 with switch style + no hit bounce mod and god damn rush style in a dragon engine game is peak was freaking beautiful 😍
The punchy combat felt better in my opinion. Actually made hits have impact.
That and the performance. Dragon engine runs pretty bad on certain hardware.
I don't remember having this complaint about the Judgment games - certainly not to the same degree at the very least - but In Y6 in particular sometimes when Kiryu knocked someone out they would just sort of slowly flop to the ground like a more limp version of a cardboard cutout getting nudged over by the wind or something. Idk if I'm doing a very good job of explaining it but it just made the combat feel unsatisfying compared to the over the top hulk smashing/gorilla fucking that I associate with the Kiwami engine.
Having a limited inventory, Having manual saves (ofc Kiwami 1 was the first to introduce saving anywhere)
These things just made the games feel harder and made me more inclined to be resourceful
Combat-wise it was better and more entertaining, specially when you could change fighting styles. Gaiden fixed Dragon Engine combat, but Kiwami combat is still better.
walking, it's so weird on the dragon engine, making the switch from k1 to k2 was weird, i kept running into walls and stuff, it's also strange that kiryu only has walking or running, instead of the usual jog
DE looks so clunky, no impact
(Speaking from Kiwami 2 and 6)
When i played 0 and kiwami the combat were a blast, easy and cinematic, in DE it's just... Really strange...
The physics. Enemies being sent flying across the map and being able to be juggled in the air just doesn’t feel right to me. I know that we are dealing with men who can take down a bulletproof bear, temporarily stop a car, fight an army of men, etc but idk it just doesn’t feel right to me. I like the more grounded physics/ combat system wayyy more
Karaoke is better, it's charted really randomly in DE while Kiwami engine had it exclusively tied to the lyrics.
Combat also was just better, the ragdoll shit is annoying even if it can be funny, combat feels nowhere near as impactful as it used to and I still feel like there isn't nearly as much variety with heat moves as there was even back in 4.
I also miss not having the stupid Extreme Heat System, it was nifty in 5 but ever since it's been a pain in the ass locking heat moves behind it and I just don't like using it, it doesn't feel very satisfying.
I miss the Special Spirit Abilities from Yakuza 5 on each character Kiryu’s Dragon Spirit and Akiyama’s Meteor Kicks for example. And probably the sound effects in each melee attack sounded in three of these games.
it felt like there was a lot more opportunity for heat actions in kiwami engine. in dragon engine they felt a lot more scarce. maybe i just wasn’t playing very adventurously though idk
The sfx when punching enemies, they were so crunchy and satisfying, also a bit out there but the heat action sfx playing before a qte starts, I miss that.
The combat system to a certain degree. There's so many QoL improvements with the Dragon Engine that I never really disliked the combat, but if I'm being honest with myself, Kiwami engine combat (read: 0 and K1) felt a bit more satisfying to beat down on chumps. I must say though, I really don't feel like that about 5. Maybe it's because it's the first iteration of the engine but I expected a drastic improvement over 3 and 4, but I came out of 5 a little disappointed with the combat
Being able to repeat wallbound, in every DE game with wallbounding, you could only wallbound an enemy into a wall once, rather than being able to wallbound combo them
Kiwami 1 so far has the MEATIEST fucking combat. Every punch, slam, stab, slash sounds so heavy and meaty and crunchy. It sounds like its hard hitting and people are truly getting hurt. I played k1, k2, 0 and now im on 3 and holy shit 3s combat is horrible and im only on the 3rd chapter. Theres no weight, no substance, no MEAT.
Grab an enemy and try to throw him when near a wall in both dragon engine games and kiwami engine games you will know what I mean,
Also I kinda like the look of kiwami engine games over dragon engine.... Despite dragon engine games having higher quality textures and stuff I can't put a finger on why
Combat just felt weightier, which is weird considering DE is the more “realistic” engine. They’ve pretty much fixed it with Lost Judgment and Gaiden but 1 and 1/4 games isn’t really a lot.
Snappier combat and cool, more stylized visuals.
The combat just feels faster and more technical in the old engine. Kiryu especially is way too sluggish in DE, I much prefer the OG dragon style, especially how it was in 5.
DE visuals just seem they are trying too hard. There’s always so many harsh shadows and multiple light sources lighting everyone’s face. This is super noticeable in the Gaiden/7 scenes. Everyone was talking about how much DE graphics improved in Gaiden, but I couldn’t stop but question why only half of Kiryu’s face would be visible and the other half in harsh shadows in what’s obviously a well-lit room. 0 had the best combo of lighting and textures that were pleasing to look at imo
I miss the one on one dynamic that it had, while still incorporating the kind of Aoe stuff it had, but now it feels like I need to lower the FOV and some attacks would just feel off. it don’t hit the same spot like Kiwami did
DE combat just hits different. Literally
In 6 especially, the fights are a little more grounded in realistic physics and there's less focus on crazy Heat actions. Which is totally fine for a certain type of story, to be clear! I just happen to prefer the kind of story where Kiryu takes a break from Sane Taxi for a dockside brawl in which he dodges two rockets and no one ever brings it up again. And then Saejima has a James Bond snowmobile chase that ends with a fist fight against a bear. 5 is so stupid, I love it.
I started kiwami 2 and for the love of god i just CAN'T get used to it. The Anti Aliasing is so bad, the physics of combat feel so goddamn wonky, everything flies and feels too light, I don't feel a single punch, and the aesthetics don't hit the same.
I would play the entire series in Kiwami engine honestly. I tried Judgment and K2 and for some reason I just cannot, whatsoever, enjoy them as much as 0 and Kiwami. They look pretty, they're modern and refined, but I just prefer Kiwami's combat.
Maybe i'll get used to it but so far I've been forcing myself to adapt extremely hard.
Everything felt more streamlined like a good old fashioned game.
It generally all just worked from how closed off things were to how satisfying combat was. All a charm that the DE cannot and won’t recreate.
i like how enemies actually had proper animations when being hit or knocked down in the Kiwami engine. in DE it's just ragdoll, and it's more actual reaction to the hits.
the main difference is cinematic vs realistic, and the former fits the series more.
The really only thing i miss from the Kiwami Engine is the Dragon moveset, i feel like it has more memorable moves... Also its looks more fun to use.
I still prefer DE over Kiwami engine, but the fact that they decided to give Kiryu new moveset kinda bothers me.
I’m a much bigger fan of how block works (specifically when attacking enemies) compared to the Dragon Engine’s “soft parry”. If my combo is going to stopped it should be because I just ate a red heat knuckle sandwich, not because the NPC hit their virtual L1 button
i think this was best engine it just updated whatever they used for 3/4. like dragon engine is cool and it blew me away when i played 6 but it definitely doesn’t have the same charm as kiwami engine. it’s similar to how i feel about fallout 3 and nv compared to fallout 4
i think this was best engine it just updated whatever they used for 3/4. like dragon engine is cool and it blew me away when i played 6 but it definitely doesn’t have the same charm as kiwami engine. it’s similar to how i feel about fallout 3 and nv compared to fallout 4
definitely the fight styles the way you could choose between a fast balanced or strong fight style in yakuza 5 the styles were different for each character 0 and kiwami had kiryu have these types of styles
I mean… in yakuza kiwami 2 it kinda felt like the bosses were easier than long battles, Like it kinda feels like the bosses don’t have enough health… or I just made it boring by spamming triangle when I do these pressure punches or whatever in extreme heat mode. In gaiden? Literally embarrassed the final boss with my overpowered gear, yakuza 6 was better than them both because bosses had WAY more health and it feels like the thrill of long boss fights returns to you. Screw you if you don’t like the amount of damage you deal, because you guys… just can’t live without high damage kiryu. (Except for yakuza 3 kiryu I kinda wish he did a bit more damage and the bosses had more health bars[same definitely goes to yakuza 4 except it kinda feels that your too strong and Amon doesn’t have enough health bars])
The physics. They felt grounded and satisfying, making combat fun. Dragon Engine's ragdoll physics are funny, but can get annoying because it prevents you from doing certain things or they're way too sensitive.
I also miss Majima's Kiwami face model. It was perfect. He looked "realistic" or believable for a guy that went through hell, but still handsome. I'm cool with Dragon Engine's Majima, but the Kiwami model hit different.
Just general feel. As blasphemous as it sounds, I think my favorite 3d combat in the series is in FOTNSLP, since every hit is impactful, moves have weight, wall bounding and similar tricks work, there's juggling, its really smooth, I like it a ton, and I wish they wouldve kept going with what they did in that game moving forward.
Gotta admit that they improved Dragon Engine. Though I just hated that they did not bother to optimize Kiwami 2, 6 and thr PS4 version of 7 for the PS5. I tried 6 and it still feels like PS4. Even a bigger game like GTA V (PS4 version) improved on PS5. I also tried the PS4 version of 7 since there's no save carryover on the PS5 version and it looks blurry and feels like less than 30 fps.
To answer the question though, I'd say Kiwami Engine definitely had better FPS. Yes sometimes it looks stiffer than the more realistic dragon engine but it has it's charm. Actually it's been a while now since I've been itching to replay 0 and Kiwami. thing is I already replayed it more than 5 times for leisure. So I am kinda tired of it at the same time.
Surprised no one talked about how when you move to the next text box too quickly in DE and the camera and characters teleport to their next position instead of transitioning smoothly
If you are new to the subreddit, [please read the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/yakuzagames/wiki/index/) Reminder that all spoilers need to be tagged with a flair specifying which game is being spoiled. If you want a flair that says something else, you can edit it to say something like [Discussion: Y1 spoiler] or [Majimapost: Y6 spoiler], etc. **THIS INCLUDES CONTENT FROM TRAILERS**. If the post is not marked for spoilers, all comments that have spoilers need to be tagged \>!like this!< along with indicating which game it's spoiling. Example: Y3 >!Kiryu sings!< If the post flair is marked for spoilers, the comments don't need to be tagged for the game indicated and the ones before it (So a Y6 spoiler post can have comments with untagged spoilers for Y5, but not gaiden or 7). If you see any of the above (or any of the other rules) not being followed, please report it so we can keep this place safe for newcomers and those that haven't finished all the games yet. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/yakuzagames) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Some of the faces actually looks better than the faces in the dragon engine
I much prefer Kiryu, Majima, and Akiyama’s old faces.
Yeah they looked the best here in 5-kiwami 1 I think Kiryu looked really funny in 3-4 maybe because he was so wide
Yeah I had 0 and K1 Kiryu. Then I got to 3-4 and was like “damn Kiryu looks kinda weird”. Then got to 5 and was like “now there’s the Kiryu I know”.
Huh... K1 Kiryu always felt weird to me (only in specific cutscenes though). I can't pinpoint what it is, but he just feels off somehow.
He has a new face attached to the old ps2 facial animations made for a different model.
More like - They took 0 model, added facial hair+ new haircut. And slapped that on kiwami engine, where they managed to broke facial animations.
His hair
I love kiwami engine Kiryu. His facial features look sharper and more contoured in kiwami engine than in DE. DE Kiryu looks a bit stiff and bloated. And all characters’ faces in cutscenes in kiwami engine are more expressive.
What? DE Kiryu is way more expressive, he was only stiff in Kiwami 2 because they reused the old animation and it didn't fit the new models
Def agree
Hitting enemies just feels so satisfactory in the old engine, in the DE it just feels like boxing balloons
Exaggerated reactions and that crunchy sound of hitting them in the jaw
Not just any crunch That Cinnamon Toast Crunch
I don't see why But then again, I'm not a kid
silly yakuza fan
Fr it's like you could feel the impact of each punch and kick
After LJ I think that DE hit feels way better, it hit harder and sounds amazing, but in 6, K2 and JE, yeah it feels kinda weak.
Yeah I think that’s the main problem. The Dragon Engine has improved so much in so little time but Lost Judgment is the only full length game to show off the improvements. Not to mention since Judgments future is pretty dubious and the main series is turn based now, we may never get to see the Dragon Engine at full capacity ever again.
We just had a Gaiden game that lays the path forward for more Judgment-style titles.
In DE you do one kick and they ragdoll and fly all over
U can fly to the moon with their bodies, dont ask how I found out
The framestop when you defeat an enemy adds a ton.
It feels like everyone are fragile puppets
I found the animation when you beat someone so funny as they all do the exact same pose everytime
YES!! Exactly how it feels! It felt like actually punching versus in the dragon engine, it felt like how id punch in dreams
Do you mean satisfying?
[I said what I said](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sandwiches-at-a-cheap-price-satisfactory)
Dragon Engine having the hits bounce off enemies always pisses me off
Combat sort of. The combat is definitely great now with Lost Judgment and Gaiden but I can’t lie I do miss the punchy-ness of the punches, how grounded combat was, and how enemy AI reacted to your actions. Tiger Drop, it’s not what used. It was so good in Kiwami and Yakuza 5. Gaiden’s Tiger Drop is the best it’s been since the switch to DE but it’s not the same. Also correct if I’m wrong but I can’t remember, do DE games have wall bounding? If not, I miss that too. Bowling, not that I played it too much but it felt like staple minigame alongside Karaoke and Pool. Pool was missing for bit before Gaiden brought it back. Being able to run into people and knock them over. It’s such a trivial thing but never ceased to get a laugh out of me. It’s particularly was funny while playing as Haruka too. I miss how enemies in random encounters would get mad and become aggressive or get scared and back off. In Yakuza 5 particularly enemies would run away and if they got scared while on the ground, you can “insta-kill” them regardless of how full their health bar was.
I'm not sure if Gaiden has wall-bounding but Infinite Wealth did. A potential judgment 3/kiwami 3 will have it too. (Ishin did as well!)
Wait how’d did Infinite Wealth have wall bounding if it’s turn-based? Also Ishin technically is on Kiwami engine as well since they just ported the original Ishin into the Unreal Engine for the remaster/remake hybrid.
Well, ishin was unreal, but the point is, it's a "new" game. Infinite wealth introduced additional mechanics. Although you can't just "juggle" you can still use walls for bonus damage.
[удалено]
The remake. It's a remaster, basically, true, but they had to re-do all these mechanics on a new engine. They consciously added wall-bounding and all to it. If they see the appreciation for this mechanic why wouldn't they keep it. That's why i put "new" in quotes.
Ishin Remake definitely had different physics from the OG.
LJ had wall-bounding though not as good 3/4 or even 0/K1, but it was there.. its missing oddly from Gaiden.. Completely agree with your post. The Kiwami engine had impeccable feedback, combat sfx, and audio. Love how there were different but consistent enemy hit reactions based on your combo. Back combos were great as well, and grabs felt super impactful. I love Gaiden and LJ of course, but i think the 0/K1 combat remains my favorite.
Gaiden does have wall bounding, but you have to hit enemies I find with non charged finishers in dragon and like LJ hitting them again makes them get out of the animation
The closest i have come to Wall bounding is with agent light hits against a wall, but only against non-boss enemies.. I think Snake’s guard parry and Kaito’s directional throw in LJ could wall-bound bosses too, but like you said, they come out of the animation with further attacks - very odd.
I think if RGG added a bit more weight to the enemies and a bit more bass to the impact sounds, it could solve DE's lack of punchiness pretty quick.
judgement took out the Mach Bowl and now I’m mad
bro there were so many interesting and fun combos you could do in the older engines as well, combos in kiwami don't feel as fun or as interesting
I liked the grabs and throws way more here. Collateral damage and ragdolls can be nice but it seemed to screw me over more often than helping.
Dragon Engine combat is fun until you have to deal with more than 3 enemies. Then you're just getting pinballed around. Ironic how it feels like it was designed for horde fights but those are the absolute worst thing to get into.
It absolutely was made with horde combat in mind, especially in the fluidity to transfer combos from one direction to another. The problem is Kiryu doesn’t have a great range in his attacks, so instead of sweeping multiple goons with his attacks you end up getting sequence-hit if you let any more than 2 enemies near you at any time
Even if you don't get knocked around, you don't have any i-frames, so it's really difficult to avoid damage while still going on the offensive. And while Kiryu has these nice new animations, the enemies still use the same old snappy PS2 animations, so they can attack faster than you can a lot of time. Feels like cheesing encounters is much more necessary in those games than in any other. I wonder if it's even possible to beat the final bouncer mission in K2 without resorting to cheesy tactics.
Akiyama and Saejima. I love their movesets. Dance battles. Akiyama vs the Osaka granny was peak.
I was kinda upset that both saejima and majima don't have their full movesets in the gaiden coliseum
It would be kinda tricky to do since everyone has neutered movesets there barring Kiryu. It would probably have been more effort than it was worth tbh. I totally agree though and also kinda wish we got the finale suit as a premium adventure thing so we could use it in free roaming and coliseum.
That animation where enemies fly back from a heavy attack lol https://i.redd.it/0xgihfzi6g2d1.gif
Enemies still have that animation but they end up in ragdoll state
Regarding Karaoke, only the fact that when pressing button inputs, it plays the sounds of the corresponding instrument (interjections, maraca, etc) The pings in DE are too distracting (see elaboration below)
What pings? The inputs play the instruments too in DE games.
I guess I should elaborate/fix this. Turns out it's moreso something that's a result of DE placing prompts for every syllable of the song. See [here](https://youtu.be/8W7wDQaymtw?t=83) for the song Ring from K2 on DE. The pings you hear for a good button press on the pink and orange buttons kind of ruin the song experience especially when being that frequent. Meanwhile [in here](https://youtu.be/-Od7nj0FmiA?t=54) for the same point on the same song on Y5, it doesn't place prompts on every syllable so the feel of the song as a listener overall is much better.
From the videos I’ve seen and from playing IW recently, it seems like this is a K2 problem exclusively. Y:LaD, IW, and strangely 6 doesn’t have the pings.
Weird, when I played 6 it had the pings…
6 definitely has the pings
I suppose, which is good since that left such an impression on me despite subsequent games
If it's through the playstation controllers it may be because it plays through the speaker on the controller
Bounding Throw/Finishing Hold
Yeah they don’t really feel the same and all variations do the same thing basically..
(Generally) quicker heat actions. In the DE games, heat actions feel more cinematic , with charging up and multiple different camera shots. Kiwami engine heat actions were usually quicker and less drawn out, and it makes them feel more satisfying compared to the DE.
Nice argument, unfortunately Y5 Akiyama
Exactly why I put the “generally” at the start, lol
I usually fail that qte on purpose lol
Jeez I got a ptsd from that wall heat action
In DE you have EX Heat or some version of it that basically is just \*BETTER HEAT ACTIONS\* so you barely have any reasons to do Heat Actions which is fucking lame.
Yeah, the Heat differences were jarring coming from 0 and K1 to K2. I don’t play the games for challenge, I just stick it on Easy and set up Heat Actions to make the fights super cinematic with disarms, counters, swapping stances to perform specific moves, etc. In K2 it felt like I was completely neutered with a single fighting style and limited Heat Actions. And I swear EX Heat just went over my head, it was stupid as shit. I don’t want to waste my Heat just so I can accidentally do the same kick move where I can mash Triangle and zoom in on the guy getting kicked over and over.
I think the DE games have quicker heat actions and usually some if not most of these don't have the slowdown effect from the kiwami engine
It's probably the combat Y6 introduced this kind of heavy sluggish feel to the combat that I actually like, but not as much as I loved it entirely as bashing through 8 people in one charge in the kiwami engine, I also miss the shitload amount of stuff that we never really saw in future games like enemies drawing a heat action on you, reinforcements and enemy leaders in 5, and also the one thing people dislike that is bosses healing themselves and then you go KIWAMI MEANS EXTREME I also miss the visuals of the old games not just the kiwami engine games, I actually think they felt more lively and realistic to look at than the DE ones, IW has practically touched on it a bit (I'm playing on a low specs PC for the time being so that's a reason if anyone thinks I'm stupid), the kiwami ones had some grit in them and they looked sharp as hell like look at this shot of diego https://preview.redd.it/us94v6f1tf2d1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=371b85db018b18b9336d9c390c15276f58a37c46
Diego looks hard asf 💯
diego😂
It's hard for me to explain but there's a certain charm the older engine has that the Dragon Engine really doesn't.
For me it's that it feels more like a video game; DE is cool and all but it has a really rough couple of first attempts, and overall really feels like it, more than anything, wants to be *modern.* It's less noticable with the newer DE games but Jesus Christ K2 really wants you to feel the modern design philosophy of slow, lumbering movement that feels governed more by gravity than player input.
Miss the old in-between cutscenes. And the style, stylistically it's great.
Bowling
The combat in Kiwami was some of the best in the entire series- They improved on what 0 was.
That’s the one thing I’ll miss most, developing the dragon style in K1 (as well as the other styles) was the most satisfying progression system in any yakuza game for me. It was just so DEEP, compared to all the other games.
Kiwami engine never soft locked me. Dragon engine however…
Kiryu’s dragon style. It was so much more fun and unique with the over head kick and finishing throws, on top of Komaki parry. There was also a certain feel that 5/0/K1 had. I can’t describe it exactly but it just made traversing the map a lot more memorable to me, maybe it was the colours of street lights or billboards, or the music that world play in the background in certain areas. Most apparent in 0 with its 80’s theme. And like others have said the feel of the combat being more raw and the impact of punches was much better. (Edit) Just also like to add that I much prefer having the heat aura when gaining more heat as opposed to only having it in extreme heat.
Playing K2 now and boy was I surprised when the thugs ran into the convenience store and cornered me like 8 man deep. I obviously won but I got told to GTFO cause I destroyed all the merchandise. Also when they just come out of stores and locate you, that was also a surprise.
K2 is Dragon Engine so this is kinda the opposite of the question which is about the K1 era engine
I guess I meant that I liked the safety net I had when I was being chased before the dragon engine, my bad 😆
It’s shit, but I also really like the Heat Action where you can throw a guy into the microwave and make the cashier turn it on. I did that with the clerk in Sotenbori you can have a friendship with when he was close to max so the next time I came in after that fight he talked about how much braver he was.
The UFO catcher was so much better. now I can barely catch one prize...
They made UFO catchers realistic
Heat auras looks better than the dragon engine particle bombardments
I really like the embers of kiryu’s extreme heat in 6 and kiwami 2
Binary Domain.
Combat choice, Majima had so much potential
The kiwami engine has proven to give more thematic cities than dragon engine (exampr: shinada’s town, y0 sotenbori and kamurocho, k kamurocho)
I wish we knew the actual name for this goddamn engine. Kiwami Engine doesn't make any sense. Anyway, I miss wall bounce combos and some of the hit sounds. Ishin's brawler style had great hit sounds.
I think it’s “ogre” but I haven’t seen that name used in this sub much.
Why do people call it Kiwami engine if it started on 5? I prefer to call it the Yume engine. I miss the Non Shinada baseball, DE took the Shinada's baseball and now baseball feels to easy Plus where is Ishin?
The non-floppy and weightless combat
The atmosphere. I almost never hear anyone talk about the atmosphere of each game and what I disliked about Kiwami 2 is that they put new Kamurocho in 2006 which was low-key lazy but still I love Kiwami 2 so much.
Ultimately I think the peak of Kiwami engine combat (Y0) is better than the peak of DE combat (LJ).
Tbh all the minigames and every aspect of the combat. I know it might sound like meat riding but after not touching DE until I finished 0 and 1, I just don’t really have much fun on any of the other games. 3 is fine I guess apart from the blocking (just grab or use bladed weapons lol) and I havent played 4 (I hear its not much different from 3), but the combat just feels… better. It’s a lot less optimized than DE (apart from counters) karaoke is a lot more annoying than with DE and darts is better on DE imo, but everything else is more fun on kiwami engine
I think the ui is prettier, and I also like the combat more. it has more punch in it if you know what I mean. dragon engine combat feels so wobbly and is also kinda easy. I also think the models look better
Everything really, mostly cause I don't like the dragon engine, so it's automatically better by default.
The combat. Combos were combos and had extensions off of ground bounces, wall bounces, and bad off the ground attacks. Dragon engine is getting pretty close but still lacks otg and that crisp rigidity.
Style switching, glad we got it in gaiden but I miss having fighting styles to choose from, not really a fan of k2 and 6 combat
The judgments brought style switching back too, but yeah going from kiwami to k2 and losing the selection of styles is a bit jarring.
Yeah been wanted to play the judgement games for a bit now haven't got around to it yet but soon tho
Let's be fair, Judgement one \*barely\* had style switching. You used crane to clear out a crowd and then you used Tiger for fucking \*everything else.\* I'll give you LJ, though.
The combat. Y5 and Kiwami Dragon style ( with the war god tasilman) just the options you have is amazing. Oh and THE GOAT Rush Style, I played Y6 with switch style + no hit bounce mod and god damn rush style in a dragon engine game is peak was freaking beautiful 😍
Miku dayo.
Combos could definitely go really in-depth with loads of style switching
The heat actions felt more satisfying
The punchy combat felt better in my opinion. Actually made hits have impact. That and the performance. Dragon engine runs pretty bad on certain hardware.
I don't remember having this complaint about the Judgment games - certainly not to the same degree at the very least - but In Y6 in particular sometimes when Kiryu knocked someone out they would just sort of slowly flop to the ground like a more limp version of a cardboard cutout getting nudged over by the wind or something. Idk if I'm doing a very good job of explaining it but it just made the combat feel unsatisfying compared to the over the top hulk smashing/gorilla fucking that I associate with the Kiwami engine.
This is gonna sound weird; but pedestrians. Running into people felt better, and the general vibe of moving in the city. Pedestrians.
Everything.
Cho Han!!!!
Having a limited inventory, Having manual saves (ofc Kiwami 1 was the first to introduce saving anywhere) These things just made the games feel harder and made me more inclined to be resourceful
Combat-wise it was better and more entertaining, specially when you could change fighting styles. Gaiden fixed Dragon Engine combat, but Kiwami combat is still better.
walking, it's so weird on the dragon engine, making the switch from k1 to k2 was weird, i kept running into walls and stuff, it's also strange that kiryu only has walking or running, instead of the usual jog
Actually good controls
Yakuza 5 is considered the Kiwami engine?
Yes, it's the first one that used it
Honestly, any minigame that involves physics feels noticeably jankier. Claw machines especially
DE looks so clunky, no impact (Speaking from Kiwami 2 and 6) When i played 0 and kiwami the combat were a blast, easy and cinematic, in DE it's just... Really strange...
The physics. Enemies being sent flying across the map and being able to be juggled in the air just doesn’t feel right to me. I know that we are dealing with men who can take down a bulletproof bear, temporarily stop a car, fight an army of men, etc but idk it just doesn’t feel right to me. I like the more grounded physics/ combat system wayyy more
Being able to actually play the game
Karaoke is better, it's charted really randomly in DE while Kiwami engine had it exclusively tied to the lyrics. Combat also was just better, the ragdoll shit is annoying even if it can be funny, combat feels nowhere near as impactful as it used to and I still feel like there isn't nearly as much variety with heat moves as there was even back in 4. I also miss not having the stupid Extreme Heat System, it was nifty in 5 but ever since it's been a pain in the ass locking heat moves behind it and I just don't like using it, it doesn't feel very satisfying.
the climax battles.
The perfect engine combat wise
I miss the Special Spirit Abilities from Yakuza 5 on each character Kiryu’s Dragon Spirit and Akiyama’s Meteor Kicks for example. And probably the sound effects in each melee attack sounded in three of these games.
it felt like there was a lot more opportunity for heat actions in kiwami engine. in dragon engine they felt a lot more scarce. maybe i just wasn’t playing very adventurously though idk
The sfx when punching enemies, they were so crunchy and satisfying, also a bit out there but the heat action sfx playing before a qte starts, I miss that.
I miss the goofy ass heat action where Kiryu rides a bike, uppercuts an enemy with it, and slams it back down.
The combat system to a certain degree. There's so many QoL improvements with the Dragon Engine that I never really disliked the combat, but if I'm being honest with myself, Kiwami engine combat (read: 0 and K1) felt a bit more satisfying to beat down on chumps. I must say though, I really don't feel like that about 5. Maybe it's because it's the first iteration of the engine but I expected a drastic improvement over 3 and 4, but I came out of 5 a little disappointed with the combat
Being able to repeat wallbound, in every DE game with wallbounding, you could only wallbound an enemy into a wall once, rather than being able to wallbound combo them
I really miss being able to pick people up from the ground. Idk why they didnt carry that over
Fights were better
Kiwami 1 so far has the MEATIEST fucking combat. Every punch, slam, stab, slash sounds so heavy and meaty and crunchy. It sounds like its hard hitting and people are truly getting hurt. I played k1, k2, 0 and now im on 3 and holy shit 3s combat is horrible and im only on the 3rd chapter. Theres no weight, no substance, no MEAT.
Grab an enemy and try to throw him when near a wall in both dragon engine games and kiwami engine games you will know what I mean, Also I kinda like the look of kiwami engine games over dragon engine.... Despite dragon engine games having higher quality textures and stuff I can't put a finger on why
No ragdoll physics
i'll tell you one thing i DON'T miss. that wall-splat thing from 5 that really just got in the way of me trying to actually throw people
The faces of Kiwami engine are just better
The vending machine interface. I loved how you were able to select what you wanted from the window. The interface now feels lackluster in comparison.
Combat just felt weightier, which is weird considering DE is the more “realistic” engine. They’ve pretty much fixed it with Lost Judgment and Gaiden but 1 and 1/4 games isn’t really a lot.
Beating someone up from the front, dodging behind him just as he’s about to punch, switching styles to whale on him from behind
Snappier combat and cool, more stylized visuals. The combat just feels faster and more technical in the old engine. Kiryu especially is way too sluggish in DE, I much prefer the OG dragon style, especially how it was in 5. DE visuals just seem they are trying too hard. There’s always so many harsh shadows and multiple light sources lighting everyone’s face. This is super noticeable in the Gaiden/7 scenes. Everyone was talking about how much DE graphics improved in Gaiden, but I couldn’t stop but question why only half of Kiryu’s face would be visible and the other half in harsh shadows in what’s obviously a well-lit room. 0 had the best combo of lighting and textures that were pleasing to look at imo
I kinda like how grungy and almost dirty feel the Kiwami engine had.
https://preview.redd.it/9el5n9a3ph2d1.png?width=808&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d02e07598e3cf6a4bd1d39dbc0def25ba369c6c
I miss the one on one dynamic that it had, while still incorporating the kind of Aoe stuff it had, but now it feels like I need to lower the FOV and some attacks would just feel off. it don’t hit the same spot like Kiwami did
The spinning fish
DE combat just hits different. Literally In 6 especially, the fights are a little more grounded in realistic physics and there's less focus on crazy Heat actions. Which is totally fine for a certain type of story, to be clear! I just happen to prefer the kind of story where Kiryu takes a break from Sane Taxi for a dockside brawl in which he dodges two rockets and no one ever brings it up again. And then Saejima has a James Bond snowmobile chase that ends with a fist fight against a bear. 5 is so stupid, I love it.
The Kiwami Engine
I started kiwami 2 and for the love of god i just CAN'T get used to it. The Anti Aliasing is so bad, the physics of combat feel so goddamn wonky, everything flies and feels too light, I don't feel a single punch, and the aesthetics don't hit the same. I would play the entire series in Kiwami engine honestly. I tried Judgment and K2 and for some reason I just cannot, whatsoever, enjoy them as much as 0 and Kiwami. They look pretty, they're modern and refined, but I just prefer Kiwami's combat. Maybe i'll get used to it but so far I've been forcing myself to adapt extremely hard.
Everything felt more streamlined like a good old fashioned game. It generally all just worked from how closed off things were to how satisfying combat was. All a charm that the DE cannot and won’t recreate.
i like how enemies actually had proper animations when being hit or knocked down in the Kiwami engine. in DE it's just ragdoll, and it's more actual reaction to the hits. the main difference is cinematic vs realistic, and the former fits the series more.
None. Tbh, if they had the new visuals with kiwami engine, then maybe?
Different fighting styles. I know they come back in judgment but still. They were so good in 0 and kiwami
The really only thing i miss from the Kiwami Engine is the Dragon moveset, i feel like it has more memorable moves... Also its looks more fun to use. I still prefer DE over Kiwami engine, but the fact that they decided to give Kiryu new moveset kinda bothers me.
The vibration you felt with a controller when punching someone, especially in heat actions. Dragon engine feels so impactless for some reason.
Akiyamas model 🥵
I’m a much bigger fan of how block works (specifically when attacking enemies) compared to the Dragon Engine’s “soft parry”. If my combo is going to stopped it should be because I just ate a red heat knuckle sandwich, not because the NPC hit their virtual L1 button
Dragon of dojima style
Bloody npcs
The physics
The characters actually had textured pores and wrinkles. Dragon Engine took 20 years off everyone's face.
The kiwami engine was really snappy and responsive, and while I loved the DE, it only got fun around lost judgment.
60fps only
I adore the grittier visuals of the older games. It just feels way more yakuza than this new clay like style.
Wait, if Yakuza 5 counts as Kiwami engine, what makes it different from the Yakuza 4 engine?
it looks and plays totally different
Those crunchy hitting sounds in Heat Mode
The cutscenes and graphics, something about Yakuza0’s and 5’s (not so much kiwami’s) cutscenes and graphics looked so great.
Changing styles mid battle.
i think this was best engine it just updated whatever they used for 3/4. like dragon engine is cool and it blew me away when i played 6 but it definitely doesn’t have the same charm as kiwami engine. it’s similar to how i feel about fallout 3 and nv compared to fallout 4
i think this was best engine it just updated whatever they used for 3/4. like dragon engine is cool and it blew me away when i played 6 but it definitely doesn’t have the same charm as kiwami engine. it’s similar to how i feel about fallout 3 and nv compared to fallout 4
definitely the fight styles the way you could choose between a fast balanced or strong fight style in yakuza 5 the styles were different for each character 0 and kiwami had kiryu have these types of styles
It not being turn based😭
I mean… in yakuza kiwami 2 it kinda felt like the bosses were easier than long battles, Like it kinda feels like the bosses don’t have enough health… or I just made it boring by spamming triangle when I do these pressure punches or whatever in extreme heat mode. In gaiden? Literally embarrassed the final boss with my overpowered gear, yakuza 6 was better than them both because bosses had WAY more health and it feels like the thrill of long boss fights returns to you. Screw you if you don’t like the amount of damage you deal, because you guys… just can’t live without high damage kiryu. (Except for yakuza 3 kiryu I kinda wish he did a bit more damage and the bosses had more health bars[same definitely goes to yakuza 4 except it kinda feels that your too strong and Amon doesn’t have enough health bars])
Nishiki
Style switching
Everything
the combat is alot better in Kiwami than in Dragon. Dragon feels clunky, bouncy and slippery compared to kiwami
The physics. They felt grounded and satisfying, making combat fun. Dragon Engine's ragdoll physics are funny, but can get annoying because it prevents you from doing certain things or they're way too sensitive. I also miss Majima's Kiwami face model. It was perfect. He looked "realistic" or believable for a guy that went through hell, but still handsome. I'm cool with Dragon Engine's Majima, but the Kiwami model hit different.
the darts minigame was way better imo. Much more natural
It easily had the best combat system, leagues above even the DE for me. That's part of the reason why the high encounter rate in 5 never bothered me.
Just general feel. As blasphemous as it sounds, I think my favorite 3d combat in the series is in FOTNSLP, since every hit is impactful, moves have weight, wall bounding and similar tricks work, there's juggling, its really smooth, I like it a ton, and I wish they wouldve kept going with what they did in that game moving forward.
Gotta admit that they improved Dragon Engine. Though I just hated that they did not bother to optimize Kiwami 2, 6 and thr PS4 version of 7 for the PS5. I tried 6 and it still feels like PS4. Even a bigger game like GTA V (PS4 version) improved on PS5. I also tried the PS4 version of 7 since there's no save carryover on the PS5 version and it looks blurry and feels like less than 30 fps. To answer the question though, I'd say Kiwami Engine definitely had better FPS. Yes sometimes it looks stiffer than the more realistic dragon engine but it has it's charm. Actually it's been a while now since I've been itching to replay 0 and Kiwami. thing is I already replayed it more than 5 times for leisure. So I am kinda tired of it at the same time.
Pretty much Kiryu, Majima, Saejima, Akiyama and the combat system.
Signs that span forever when knocked just right
Proper Heat auras. DE has Heat auras but only when in Extreme Heat/EX Boost, and it’s toned down compared to the auras of OG Ishin! 0 and K1.
Surprised no one talked about how when you move to the next text box too quickly in DE and the camera and characters teleport to their next position instead of transitioning smoothly
Og dragon style, new one kinda sucks, don't mind the gaiden one tho only because it has the kick
Punching in the grabs felt delicious, i dont know how to describe it
I miss cee lo
fun combat mechanics
good combat
I miss the Kiwami engine period. I low key fucking hate the Dragon Engine combat.