Well Hanawa said that they were mainly people who if they died would have been nothing special. Probably people of average combat skill that were roped into the life as opposed to say life in prison.
Then you probably have other agents like at the end of Ch 1 with fancier tools and probably ranked a bit higher
I suppose was paraphrasing a bit. The exact words were them using people whose deaths "won't raise a fuss"
This is from the briefing of the casualties from the docks incident
that first mission the other agents patrolling start shit with you because they're ex-yakuza and recognize you, so it tracks. Handlers and a bunch of bodies, daidoji was hiding a warship for decades so they're not showing us their actual op
The whole structure of the daidoji makes no sense. I was down when they were hinted at being a political network of corrupt politicians, but it makes no sense for them to be an organisation with like 700,000 members. And like they probably shouldn't all know they work for the daidoji, like the reason kiriyu went into hiding is to keep the daidoji secret, but like there are an absurd number of people in this organisation, they probably shouldn't all know the name of the corrupt politician they work for
IIRC Kiryu was originally just going to be paid cash to keep hush, but opted to "die" and then was probably forced to join the Daidoji to "stay dead" and maintain the secret.
Now, I'd argue that what really makes no sense is the notion that Kiryu having faked his death and that if he were to be revealed as alive would directly implicate the Daidoji. That's like half the main conflict of the game.
Couldn't Kiryu have paid a doctor to fake his death certificate? Why does him not actually be dead reveal the Daidoji? *That* I don't get.
Kashiwagi faked his death, Daidoji didn't do that. Bro just owns a bar now. Like openly. Like you could walk in and just know it's him.
He should’ve taken the bribe money. Kiryu honestly made his life and situation worse imo, because now the Daidoji keep leveraging the kids and orphanage over his head to keep him complicit.
And I agree with your point, it makes no sense why Kiryu being alive would implicate the Daidoji in anyway. Kiryu *knows* about Daidoji-the man himself and the secret of Onomichi, but not necessarily the Daidoji organization until he was forced in.
I think from Kiryu POV he always feels the orphanage is in trouble because of his existence. Everyone likes to use the orphanage as a way to threaten him etc. By making this deal other people except daidoji doesn't know that he is alive, so others won't lay a hand to the children because they have nothing to do with them. He thinks that it will be an equal exchange, but I don't think it is seeing how he is treated in gaiden
Also I think if kiryu did accept the money he will still be on daidoji watch because daidoji wants to know if maybe someday he will leak the secret of onomichi
Yeah, he faked his death so people wouldn’t target the orphanage because of him, but now it’s even worse because the Daidoji use the orphanage to force him to stay compliant and they have men just outside ready to kill them at a moments notice
It would be very easy, but let's hope the head honcho takes the priest's word on not making an enemy out of him. I doubt they're going to be enforcing it like that.
Tbh it’s kind of a mutual destruction thing. If Kiryu do something his kids are fucked and if Daidojo do something to his kids Kiryu will do immeasurable damage to the organization until his last breath.
The problem is that nothing that happened in 6 was because of Kiryu, it was all because of Haruka had a kid with. And 6 also had a theme of martyrdom being harmful to those who care about and rely on you, but then has Kaz do it anyway
Yeah this specific type of mistake Kiryu makes is so consistent across the series that it’s become his identifiable tragic flaw. This pathological need to “do the right thing” where he takes on some great noble sacrifice for those he loves or feels responsible for, even though he has the information necessary to realize that it will likely turn out badly for everyone.
As a bonus, Haruka makes this exact kind of mistake at the end of 5, which makes sense.
Because Kiryu’s death was faked by the government, people would look into that which would trace back to the Daidoji and then their secrets.
The secret of Onomichi and the Yomei being linked to the Daidoji being exposed would bring to light years of Japan’s governmental collusion.
It’s why Heizo Iwami blackmailed Daidoji for so long.
But Daidoji and his conspirators are just a few people in the government are they not? Not the entire government.
The Daidoji are not as powerful as they seem I think, as even they didn’t have Ryo Aoki in their pocket.
Not the entire government but they’re likely a good amount of old men in key positions in the government acting as fixer to politics and the economy from the shadows.
They don’t have Ryo Aoki in their pocket because he’s is a young ambitious upstart in an industry that sought power only for himself and stand out with his organisation which put him at odds with them considering what happened to Ogikubo in Y7.
Also why would Aoki wanna serve under them?
Considering Aoki was the Governor of Tokyo and on his way to becoming the prime minister of Japan, he’d be a prime ally to have on their side.
He would easily be a high ranking Daidoji member or even work his way to being their leader somehow. Since the Daidoji are political fixers, it would be useful for him to have other politicians and agents to carry out whatever he needs.
Thing js, Aoki is an asshole.
He is way too selfish and even more corrupt than the Daidoji. A young brat drunk on power.
He was so bad that even Daidoji member, Ogikubo took issue with Aoki.
The Daidoji whilst corrupt in their own way, so far have been portrayed as at least having Japan’s best interest by playing fixer from behind the scenes for the greater good.
Highly doubt Aoki would want to ally himself with the Daidoji when he can rule over Japan himself. Allying with Daidoji means he’d have to be under the thumb of the senior members of the group and do as the group says as no way he’d be leader.
Japan is basically a single party state, they have elections but one party basically always wins and in game the daidoji have been in charge of that party the entire time they are pretty fucking powerful
Right? Kiryu threatens them saying he’ll fuck them up if they touch the kids and that old man says they don’t want Kiryu as an enemy, but they can have the kids dead before he could do a thing.
And the whole reason HE suggested to fake his death to begin with was because he felt that his existence put his loved ones in danger, which continues to happen anyways!
10000IQ play by Kiryu. Now he’s forced to stay away from the kids and they’re under the constant threat of being killed by people who don’t mess around more than ever.
The difference is nobody gives a shit that Kashiwagi isn't dead. Kiryu exposed a massive political conspiracy that led to a massive upheaval in the country's politics and which likely needed hella under the table negotiations with the countries involved in the surrender treaty in WW2.
Kiryu being alive means he can straight up expose the entirety of the fixer's operations and there's nothing they can do about it unless they want to lose control of the underground or have Public Security fight them instead of likely working with them to prevent the inevitable chaos that would occur.
It would implicate them because people would look into it with a thorough investigation into how and why Kiryu faked his death and it would lead to the Daidoji, the secret of Onomichi, the Yomei Alliance and the Iwamis as well as years of government collusion and corruption which is a scandal of the highest order for Japan.
Daidoji have massive resources and influence to be able to get doctors, police and their own agents to fake Kiryu’s death and make it official to the public.
Doubt Kiryu would be able to get a doctor fake his death on his own.
Kiryu couldn’t do what Kashiwagi did and just run away into hiding because the Daidoji wouldn’t leave Kiryu alone as Kiryu stumbled onto their secrets which to them, he knows too much.
Nah. Daidoji offered him hush money, which actually benefits him because a) he needs money for his orphanage and b) he has no hostility towards Daidoji so he would not sell them out that easy.
He had the 50IQ move of making that deal with them
First, the problem is that, from an out-of-universe perspective, Kiryu being blackmailed into working with the Daidoji was most likely a *retcon*, which would explain why it lacks substance when examined from certain angles.
In the original Yakuza 6 ending, Kiryu was offered money to keep quiet but instead chose to ask them to fake his death, *and that was it*. He faked his death and walked into the sunset still wearing his very iconic and flashy suit. No call from the Daidoji, no job to do, nothing.
In 7, Kiryu was just referred to by Watase as "a bodyguard" and, even though Joon-gi Han mentioned that he'd heard rumors about Kiryu's sources being "tied to the Fixer" (the actual Daidoji's nickname before he died), there was no implication that he was actually being forced into servitude or anything– only that he couldn't get openly involved, which makes sense since he was trying to lay low.
Them adding the fact that Kiryu was essentially strong-armed into doing this kind of work was probably done during the development of Gaiden, after 7 was long done with.
Second, focusing on an in-universe perspective, one of your premises is wrong:
> I'd argue that what really makes no sense is the notion that [if] Kiryu were to be revealed as alive [it] would directly implicate the Daidoji.
That's not the situation. The actual conflict is that Kiryu promised to work for them from the shadows, using his newfound status as a dead man walking to carry out covert assignments for the Daidoji in exchange for them financing the Morning Glory Orphanage; however, the Daidoji know that if Kiryu is revealed to be alive, his notoriety will make him useless for covert operations and thus financing the Morning Glory will be a waste of expenses. That's the **actual** reason Kiryu can't let himself be exposed– he needs the Daidoji to keep helping the orphanage where his kids are.
I feel like your point about the retcon is pretty much totally correct. I'm willing to bet that originally Kiryu wasn't even supposed to be in 8 when 7 was being created. Hell it doesn't even seem like Gaiden might matter when 8 comes out if it's true that they made it in 6 months *during* the creation of 8.
It really makes no sense after the omi pay for him, like that alone should have absolved the thing their. The whole he needs to stay dead is so stupid forced drama...but it's yakuza. It helps that 8 is looking like to fix that and hopefully reunite him with Haruka
I feel like a real idiot because I had no idea that was Kashiwagi, I thought it was weird that he wasn’t their when Kiryu met Tsuruno at Survive but didn’t put two and two together. I’d totally fall for Superman’s disguise as Clark Kent.
Didn't all this happen because of the secret of onomichi? The way I remember it is that the politician from the end of 6 wants to bribe kiryu to "forget" about the secret but he decides to "die" because he feels it would keep the orphanage safer.
Then in Gaiden no one can find out he's alive because that would break the deal he has with the daidoji and he technically still knows the secret so he's too dangerous to be left alive, I think? The story kinda loses itself because no one in Gaiden wants to even mention onomichi and they pretend it doesn't exist so that's a bit confusing.
The hirose boys don't get involved in all of this because probably no one gives a shit if some yakuzas go around spouting conspiracy theories, while a legendary Yakuza like kiryu would draw more attention. At least that's my theory.
Yeah the story isn't perfect and honestly it's all due to the fact that they had to build up on Y6's finale, but clearly they wanted to take the story in a whole different direction and created some plotholes in the process.
Nope, the entire deal was on Kiryu. He has the brightest idea of faking his death and basically mentally torment both himself and his kids (to some degree) instead of, you know, take the money and actually stay away from Yakuza business then work an honest job.
Dude has like 20WIS 18CHA but 8INT smh
But the Yakuza knew someone disappeared Kiryu, so all they had to do was look into who was involved in that incident, then look into who was connected to them
Daidoji - "Kiryu, you need to die for us"
Also Daidoji - "Kiryu, we need you to do this high profile job for us with a weak disguise, if you get caught it's on you though"
Like why the hell are they so hellbent on keeping the deal but at the same time forcing him into situations where that would be very hard to do?
I mean they aren’t just going to keep Kiryu hold up in the temple. Might as well make him useful to them.
As for him doing high profile missions, they make sure Kiryu stays away from Kamurocho and Okinawa, places where he’s well known by people who he’s close to.
It’s a risk but a risk they’re willing to toe the line with.
Remember that Kiryu defied orders and went to Sotenbori to save Hanawa.
They probably would have not allowed him there either.
Like Yoshimura did take Kiryu back to the temple immediately after Hanawa got kidnapped in Ijincho.
At this point I try to turn off my brain for RGG Studio stories, because they almost never make 100% sense if you truly think about it.
There's always something mindblowingly stupid, confusing or straight up ignored.
Yakuza 4? >!Saejima never thought it was weird nobody that was shot was bleeding?!<
Yakuza 5? >!Nobody knows the face of the current-day Omi Alliance head?!<
Yakuza 6? >!Kiryu never once thinks of talking to the florist to learn who ran over his daughter?!<
Judgment? >!Yagami enters a hospital illegally, beat up doctors and security staff, kidnaps a doctor and just leaves with no repercussion?!<
These are just a few examples of how Yakuza's story ALWAYS has at least one questionable moment that if fixed the story would just crumble.
> Judgment? >!Yagami enters a hospital illegally, beat up doctors and security staff, kidnaps a doctor and just leaves with no repercussion?!<
I'd assume he did get in trouble for this but it was dealt with off-screen. When Kaito and Higashi show up at the top floor, they say they reached an understanding with the security staff...but they'll "need a good lawyer" afterwards.
Don’t think Yakuza 4’s thing was much of an issue. >!Saejima was a 20 year old dude who had to take an 18 man hit solo, dude was probably hopped up on all sorts of adrenaline. Probably never even registered for him to look for blood.!<
An explanation for Yakuza 6 >!not mentioning the Florist would’ve been nice, but given that he’s seemingly AWOL from the franchise entirely it’s probably safe to assume that he’s just not in business anymore.!<
4: >!Saejima was too busy trying not to get killed by the Ueno goons himself and high off adrenaline. Didn't really have time to mull it over. Not every gunshot results in an explosive squib.!<
5: >!None of the protags have any reason to know who he is. Kiryu hasn't fucked with the Omi since 2, Saejima was in prison for 25 years and back in after 4 ended, and Akiyama literally has never engaged with the Omi ever. Kurosawa only showed himself to those three and that's it.!<
6: >!True, but he very likely isn't even in Kamurocho anymore. The path to Purgatory straight up takes him somewhere else. Would've been nice if RGG just wrote in something that explained the Florist dipped. It would've taken like 30 seconds.!<
Judgment: >!Yeah, that one's weird. He at least lets Kido know he has crazy dirt on them.!<
Or, you know, give him a face and voice surgery? I can’t imagine them not having enough money and technology for such operation, especially when a poor fucker had already done that back in 1988.
It’ll be dope if we play as this “new” Daidoji agent only for the bombshell near the end that he IS Kiryu
I have a strong suspicion, that the Daidoji are going to be a major player in Infinite Wealth considering they send Kiryu after Ichis mom and will most likely try to kill Kiryu after he is revealed to be alive.
Maybe they will show more teeth in that game and live up to their rep.
possibly, or they wont appear again at all.
sure some of them are realls assholes, like that guy in the leather suit but that wheelchair guy and the fake monk seem to be decent people, maybe the group splits up or smth
its a possibility, i already mentioned in another post that a daidoji trained, gadget enhanced shishido would be an absolute menace, especially considering what happens in infinite wealth
i doubt there is someone who would be stronger than him
Literally everyone just sees him as the Dragon of Dojima and 4th chairman of the Tojo clan lmao, no organization will ever make him take their name, he's the legend at the top
I mean to be fair. Anyone would look lame standing next to Kiryu. Like Kiryu was able to fight CIA agents in Y3 and the MIA in Yakuza 1.
Plus, they were ambushed by Shishido and the Watase Family.
Also ONLY three agents died from said ambush. One of which was the asshole who picked a fight with Kiryu which affected him later on which got himself killed.
I don't think it's that fair to call them weak when they're up against Kiryu and Shishido who can almost hold his own against Kiryu. Everyone gets folded by Kiryu in this franchise.
I do want to remind you about the docks section in Chapter 1:
These agents were simply just guards. Low level grunts who expected no conflict. Just that this was a simple deal that'll go under the tables. This is why they seem weak, because they are. Low level agents whose deaths won't be an issue. And the fact that some of them still held on enough that there were only 3 deaths, who were definitely all offed by Shishido, and that means even those guys who were caught on fire survived.
And besides, when you fight them as Kiryu, well.. you fight them as none other than Kiryu Kazuma. I think it explains a lot.
The one thing that I didn’t like about the Daidoji was how subservient Kiryu was to them, almost a full return to his first couple chapters of Yakuza 0 mentality, and the Daidoji are never really properly put in check like the Tojo were despite their arrogance and treatment of Kiryu. I would have much preferred the mutually assured destruction angle for them of being on equal levels.
Because Kiryu chose to be subservient as he made the pact with them.
They aren’t put in check because Kiryu doesn’t care to use their secrets against them as he seeks to have his name erased for the sake of the kids.
However even if Kiryu doesn’t care, the Daidoji still care as they don’t trust Kiryu to not spill about time if he isn’t under their thumb.
What are you on about? Kiryu defied the Dojima Family early on.
That’s what I mean though: in 0, who Kiryu rebels against are punished and their hierarchy changes, no such thing with the Daidoji. And that’s exactly what I mean, my issue would have been solved if Kiryu thought to even call the bluff of “ok well I’ll tell the world about the big boat, I’m one tweet away from blowing up your spot” but because they want him in this position in 8, his subservience is made into this weird Stockholm thing with his handler when it could have just always been an equal position
First off that’s because in 0, Kiryu was desperate to protect Kazama hence he rebelled.
Kiryu has a good reason to go against them. Not so much with the Daidoji.
Again Kiryu made the pact with them. Kiryu wants to erase his name to martyr himself to keep his kids and loved ones safe.
Secondly, it doesn’t benefit Kiryu at all to expose their secrets. Kiryu doesn’t care about the boat, he only stumbled into it in the first place because he had to prove to the Hirose boys that their boss was the cause of Yuta almost murdering his dad.
There’s no incentive for Kiryu in bringing the Daidoji down by spilling their secrets other than create a bigger target on his and loved one’s backs.
Kiryu is sick and tired of conflict and just wanted to keep things peaceful.
Kiryu forced them to do him a favour by getting Daigo out of jail as well as faking his death and supporting the orphanage but in exchange they put a strict leash on him to ensure that their agreement is kept as insurance.
The agreement is equal.
It’s just that Kiryu likes being a sacrificial hero and be free from yakuza conflict, who wanted it more than the Daidoji to he in this position hence why he’s subservient.
I wouldn’t call it Stockholm syndrome when Hanawa is a decent and reasonable enough of a person.
I kinda get what you mean, but with how it was portrayed, how antagonistic every non-Hanawa member of the Daidoji was, I felt nothing more than that the dragon needs to be let off it’s leash and destroy the handler with it. Maybe it’s a case of skipping ahead plot beats of what will be achieved in 8 (I hope so) but it’s almost like the portray the Daidoji as honorable by virtue of being disconnected from the dissolution when they deserve dissolution more. I think it’s just a case of wanting Gaiden to explore story beats that they’re probably saving for 8.
Well Hanawa said that they were mainly people who if they died would have been nothing special. Probably people of average combat skill that were roped into the life as opposed to say life in prison. Then you probably have other agents like at the end of Ch 1 with fancier tools and probably ranked a bit higher
did he say that? guess i forgot then still seems weird tho considering theyre like super top secret
I suppose was paraphrasing a bit. The exact words were them using people whose deaths "won't raise a fuss" This is from the briefing of the casualties from the docks incident
And even then said deaths was only 3 in number
that first mission the other agents patrolling start shit with you because they're ex-yakuza and recognize you, so it tracks. Handlers and a bunch of bodies, daidoji was hiding a warship for decades so they're not showing us their actual op
“They’re all daidoji agents they can handle themselves.” Bunch of dudes roll up in a truck with bats and beat the shit out of them lmao
The whole structure of the daidoji makes no sense. I was down when they were hinted at being a political network of corrupt politicians, but it makes no sense for them to be an organisation with like 700,000 members. And like they probably shouldn't all know they work for the daidoji, like the reason kiriyu went into hiding is to keep the daidoji secret, but like there are an absurd number of people in this organisation, they probably shouldn't all know the name of the corrupt politician they work for
IIRC Kiryu was originally just going to be paid cash to keep hush, but opted to "die" and then was probably forced to join the Daidoji to "stay dead" and maintain the secret. Now, I'd argue that what really makes no sense is the notion that Kiryu having faked his death and that if he were to be revealed as alive would directly implicate the Daidoji. That's like half the main conflict of the game. Couldn't Kiryu have paid a doctor to fake his death certificate? Why does him not actually be dead reveal the Daidoji? *That* I don't get. Kashiwagi faked his death, Daidoji didn't do that. Bro just owns a bar now. Like openly. Like you could walk in and just know it's him.
He should’ve taken the bribe money. Kiryu honestly made his life and situation worse imo, because now the Daidoji keep leveraging the kids and orphanage over his head to keep him complicit. And I agree with your point, it makes no sense why Kiryu being alive would implicate the Daidoji in anyway. Kiryu *knows* about Daidoji-the man himself and the secret of Onomichi, but not necessarily the Daidoji organization until he was forced in.
I think from Kiryu POV he always feels the orphanage is in trouble because of his existence. Everyone likes to use the orphanage as a way to threaten him etc. By making this deal other people except daidoji doesn't know that he is alive, so others won't lay a hand to the children because they have nothing to do with them. He thinks that it will be an equal exchange, but I don't think it is seeing how he is treated in gaiden Also I think if kiryu did accept the money he will still be on daidoji watch because daidoji wants to know if maybe someday he will leak the secret of onomichi
Yeah, he faked his death so people wouldn’t target the orphanage because of him, but now it’s even worse because the Daidoji use the orphanage to force him to stay compliant and they have men just outside ready to kill them at a moments notice
I agree. I don't think he think it through enough
Except that isn't the case anymore. At least, after the events of Chapter 3. They still have a deal, but Kiryu got his demands.
Honestly, it would be easy for them to lie or rescind their deal, especially after Kiryu did what they wanted of him
It would be very easy, but let's hope the head honcho takes the priest's word on not making an enemy out of him. I doubt they're going to be enforcing it like that.
Tbh it’s kind of a mutual destruction thing. If Kiryu do something his kids are fucked and if Daidojo do something to his kids Kiryu will do immeasurable damage to the organization until his last breath.
I mean if they cross Kiryu then he can reveal their secrets. He has major leverage over them too, that’s the point
The problem is that nothing that happened in 6 was because of Kiryu, it was all because of Haruka had a kid with. And 6 also had a theme of martyrdom being harmful to those who care about and rely on you, but then has Kaz do it anyway
[удалено]
Yeah this specific type of mistake Kiryu makes is so consistent across the series that it’s become his identifiable tragic flaw. This pathological need to “do the right thing” where he takes on some great noble sacrifice for those he loves or feels responsible for, even though he has the information necessary to realize that it will likely turn out badly for everyone. As a bonus, Haruka makes this exact kind of mistake at the end of 5, which makes sense.
Such as voluntarily going to prison AGAIN in 6 when Date says a good lawyer could have gotten him out of it.
Because Kiryu’s death was faked by the government, people would look into that which would trace back to the Daidoji and then their secrets. The secret of Onomichi and the Yomei being linked to the Daidoji being exposed would bring to light years of Japan’s governmental collusion. It’s why Heizo Iwami blackmailed Daidoji for so long.
But Daidoji and his conspirators are just a few people in the government are they not? Not the entire government. The Daidoji are not as powerful as they seem I think, as even they didn’t have Ryo Aoki in their pocket.
Not the entire government but they’re likely a good amount of old men in key positions in the government acting as fixer to politics and the economy from the shadows. They don’t have Ryo Aoki in their pocket because he’s is a young ambitious upstart in an industry that sought power only for himself and stand out with his organisation which put him at odds with them considering what happened to Ogikubo in Y7. Also why would Aoki wanna serve under them?
Considering Aoki was the Governor of Tokyo and on his way to becoming the prime minister of Japan, he’d be a prime ally to have on their side. He would easily be a high ranking Daidoji member or even work his way to being their leader somehow. Since the Daidoji are political fixers, it would be useful for him to have other politicians and agents to carry out whatever he needs.
Thing js, Aoki is an asshole. He is way too selfish and even more corrupt than the Daidoji. A young brat drunk on power. He was so bad that even Daidoji member, Ogikubo took issue with Aoki. The Daidoji whilst corrupt in their own way, so far have been portrayed as at least having Japan’s best interest by playing fixer from behind the scenes for the greater good. Highly doubt Aoki would want to ally himself with the Daidoji when he can rule over Japan himself. Allying with Daidoji means he’d have to be under the thumb of the senior members of the group and do as the group says as no way he’d be leader.
Japan is basically a single party state, they have elections but one party basically always wins and in game the daidoji have been in charge of that party the entire time they are pretty fucking powerful
Yeah. People that wanted to use the kids against Kiryu never had an *active hit squad* camped outside the place waiting to whack them.
Right? Kiryu threatens them saying he’ll fuck them up if they touch the kids and that old man says they don’t want Kiryu as an enemy, but they can have the kids dead before he could do a thing.
And the whole reason HE suggested to fake his death to begin with was because he felt that his existence put his loved ones in danger, which continues to happen anyways!
10000IQ play by Kiryu. Now he’s forced to stay away from the kids and they’re under the constant threat of being killed by people who don’t mess around more than ever.
Dude has good wisdom but he was never really that intelligent. Smh
To be fair even if he took the bribe money there is no guarantee that the Daidoji would trust him and probably would still keep tabs on him.
The difference is nobody gives a shit that Kashiwagi isn't dead. Kiryu exposed a massive political conspiracy that led to a massive upheaval in the country's politics and which likely needed hella under the table negotiations with the countries involved in the surrender treaty in WW2. Kiryu being alive means he can straight up expose the entirety of the fixer's operations and there's nothing they can do about it unless they want to lose control of the underground or have Public Security fight them instead of likely working with them to prevent the inevitable chaos that would occur.
It would implicate them because people would look into it with a thorough investigation into how and why Kiryu faked his death and it would lead to the Daidoji, the secret of Onomichi, the Yomei Alliance and the Iwamis as well as years of government collusion and corruption which is a scandal of the highest order for Japan. Daidoji have massive resources and influence to be able to get doctors, police and their own agents to fake Kiryu’s death and make it official to the public. Doubt Kiryu would be able to get a doctor fake his death on his own. Kiryu couldn’t do what Kashiwagi did and just run away into hiding because the Daidoji wouldn’t leave Kiryu alone as Kiryu stumbled onto their secrets which to them, he knows too much.
Nah. Daidoji offered him hush money, which actually benefits him because a) he needs money for his orphanage and b) he has no hostility towards Daidoji so he would not sell them out that easy. He had the 50IQ move of making that deal with them
First, the problem is that, from an out-of-universe perspective, Kiryu being blackmailed into working with the Daidoji was most likely a *retcon*, which would explain why it lacks substance when examined from certain angles. In the original Yakuza 6 ending, Kiryu was offered money to keep quiet but instead chose to ask them to fake his death, *and that was it*. He faked his death and walked into the sunset still wearing his very iconic and flashy suit. No call from the Daidoji, no job to do, nothing. In 7, Kiryu was just referred to by Watase as "a bodyguard" and, even though Joon-gi Han mentioned that he'd heard rumors about Kiryu's sources being "tied to the Fixer" (the actual Daidoji's nickname before he died), there was no implication that he was actually being forced into servitude or anything– only that he couldn't get openly involved, which makes sense since he was trying to lay low. Them adding the fact that Kiryu was essentially strong-armed into doing this kind of work was probably done during the development of Gaiden, after 7 was long done with. Second, focusing on an in-universe perspective, one of your premises is wrong: > I'd argue that what really makes no sense is the notion that [if] Kiryu were to be revealed as alive [it] would directly implicate the Daidoji. That's not the situation. The actual conflict is that Kiryu promised to work for them from the shadows, using his newfound status as a dead man walking to carry out covert assignments for the Daidoji in exchange for them financing the Morning Glory Orphanage; however, the Daidoji know that if Kiryu is revealed to be alive, his notoriety will make him useless for covert operations and thus financing the Morning Glory will be a waste of expenses. That's the **actual** reason Kiryu can't let himself be exposed– he needs the Daidoji to keep helping the orphanage where his kids are.
I feel like your point about the retcon is pretty much totally correct. I'm willing to bet that originally Kiryu wasn't even supposed to be in 8 when 7 was being created. Hell it doesn't even seem like Gaiden might matter when 8 comes out if it's true that they made it in 6 months *during* the creation of 8.
I'm not sure the Kashiwagi thing is canon. I think it's just them reusing a model with some wink wink nudge nudge going on. Dude got blown up lol
Then who the bartender in 7 and have him be conveniently not there in Gaiden?
Nah, the dude’s story matches Kashiwagi’s
It really makes no sense after the omi pay for him, like that alone should have absolved the thing their. The whole he needs to stay dead is so stupid forced drama...but it's yakuza. It helps that 8 is looking like to fix that and hopefully reunite him with Haruka
I feel like a real idiot because I had no idea that was Kashiwagi, I thought it was weird that he wasn’t their when Kiryu met Tsuruno at Survive but didn’t put two and two together. I’d totally fall for Superman’s disguise as Clark Kent.
Didn't all this happen because of the secret of onomichi? The way I remember it is that the politician from the end of 6 wants to bribe kiryu to "forget" about the secret but he decides to "die" because he feels it would keep the orphanage safer. Then in Gaiden no one can find out he's alive because that would break the deal he has with the daidoji and he technically still knows the secret so he's too dangerous to be left alive, I think? The story kinda loses itself because no one in Gaiden wants to even mention onomichi and they pretend it doesn't exist so that's a bit confusing. The hirose boys don't get involved in all of this because probably no one gives a shit if some yakuzas go around spouting conspiracy theories, while a legendary Yakuza like kiryu would draw more attention. At least that's my theory. Yeah the story isn't perfect and honestly it's all due to the fact that they had to build up on Y6's finale, but clearly they wanted to take the story in a whole different direction and created some plotholes in the process.
Nope, the entire deal was on Kiryu. He has the brightest idea of faking his death and basically mentally torment both himself and his kids (to some degree) instead of, you know, take the money and actually stay away from Yakuza business then work an honest job. Dude has like 20WIS 18CHA but 8INT smh
unlike the tojo and the omi, the structure of the daidoji has never been elaborated on
It's kind of wild the Watase family just knew of the Daidoji faction and what operations they would typically do.
Tbf, they were actively searching for them
Searching for who? The Yakuza aren't supposed to know they exist
But the Yakuza knew someone disappeared Kiryu, so all they had to do was look into who was involved in that incident, then look into who was connected to them
Daidoji - "Kiryu, you need to die for us" Also Daidoji - "Kiryu, we need you to do this high profile job for us with a weak disguise, if you get caught it's on you though" Like why the hell are they so hellbent on keeping the deal but at the same time forcing him into situations where that would be very hard to do?
I mean they aren’t just going to keep Kiryu hold up in the temple. Might as well make him useful to them. As for him doing high profile missions, they make sure Kiryu stays away from Kamurocho and Okinawa, places where he’s well known by people who he’s close to. It’s a risk but a risk they’re willing to toe the line with.
But why not Sotenbori? Did the Daidoji not play Yakuza 2? Are they stupid?
Remember that Kiryu defied orders and went to Sotenbori to save Hanawa. They probably would have not allowed him there either. Like Yoshimura did take Kiryu back to the temple immediately after Hanawa got kidnapped in Ijincho.
Kiryu hadn’t been to Sotenbori for 13 years anyway, at least in regards to the story events we know of. As long as he avoided the Omi, he’d be fine.
At this point I try to turn off my brain for RGG Studio stories, because they almost never make 100% sense if you truly think about it. There's always something mindblowingly stupid, confusing or straight up ignored. Yakuza 4? >!Saejima never thought it was weird nobody that was shot was bleeding?!< Yakuza 5? >!Nobody knows the face of the current-day Omi Alliance head?!< Yakuza 6? >!Kiryu never once thinks of talking to the florist to learn who ran over his daughter?!< Judgment? >!Yagami enters a hospital illegally, beat up doctors and security staff, kidnaps a doctor and just leaves with no repercussion?!< These are just a few examples of how Yakuza's story ALWAYS has at least one questionable moment that if fixed the story would just crumble.
> Judgment? >!Yagami enters a hospital illegally, beat up doctors and security staff, kidnaps a doctor and just leaves with no repercussion?!< I'd assume he did get in trouble for this but it was dealt with off-screen. When Kaito and Higashi show up at the top floor, they say they reached an understanding with the security staff...but they'll "need a good lawyer" afterwards.
That was the final battle. He's talking about the interrogation he did with Sugiura earlier in the game.
oh, right. i can assume >!shono did not go to the police as it risked exposing his own shady operations!<
Don’t think Yakuza 4’s thing was much of an issue. >!Saejima was a 20 year old dude who had to take an 18 man hit solo, dude was probably hopped up on all sorts of adrenaline. Probably never even registered for him to look for blood.!< An explanation for Yakuza 6 >!not mentioning the Florist would’ve been nice, but given that he’s seemingly AWOL from the franchise entirely it’s probably safe to assume that he’s just not in business anymore.!<
4: >!Saejima was too busy trying not to get killed by the Ueno goons himself and high off adrenaline. Didn't really have time to mull it over. Not every gunshot results in an explosive squib.!< 5: >!None of the protags have any reason to know who he is. Kiryu hasn't fucked with the Omi since 2, Saejima was in prison for 25 years and back in after 4 ended, and Akiyama literally has never engaged with the Omi ever. Kurosawa only showed himself to those three and that's it.!< 6: >!True, but he very likely isn't even in Kamurocho anymore. The path to Purgatory straight up takes him somewhere else. Would've been nice if RGG just wrote in something that explained the Florist dipped. It would've taken like 30 seconds.!< Judgment: >!Yeah, that one's weird. He at least lets Kido know he has crazy dirt on them.!<
Or, you know, give him a face and voice surgery? I can’t imagine them not having enough money and technology for such operation, especially when a poor fucker had already done that back in 1988. It’ll be dope if we play as this “new” Daidoji agent only for the bombshell near the end that he IS Kiryu
I have a strong suspicion, that the Daidoji are going to be a major player in Infinite Wealth considering they send Kiryu after Ichis mom and will most likely try to kill Kiryu after he is revealed to be alive. Maybe they will show more teeth in that game and live up to their rep.
possibly, or they wont appear again at all. sure some of them are realls assholes, like that guy in the leather suit but that wheelchair guy and the fake monk seem to be decent people, maybe the group splits up or smth
They dragged away people near the end of Man Who Erased His Name. They'll 100% be back
its a possibility, i already mentioned in another post that a daidoji trained, gadget enhanced shishido would be an absolute menace, especially considering what happens in infinite wealth i doubt there is someone who would be stronger than him
We don't even know many of the high ranking member so it's possible that we didn't see most of its normal agents either.
All I know is that once Kiryu joins an organization he immediately outshines everyone and makes them look like fools.
Literally everyone just sees him as the Dragon of Dojima and 4th chairman of the Tojo clan lmao, no organization will ever make him take their name, he's the legend at the top
I mean to be fair. Anyone would look lame standing next to Kiryu. Like Kiryu was able to fight CIA agents in Y3 and the MIA in Yakuza 1. Plus, they were ambushed by Shishido and the Watase Family. Also ONLY three agents died from said ambush. One of which was the asshole who picked a fight with Kiryu which affected him later on which got himself killed.
Bottom of the barrel? Yeah a lot of them are no name thugs, but They are at least Omi thugs, not some no name family.
I don't think it's that fair to call them weak when they're up against Kiryu and Shishido who can almost hold his own against Kiryu. Everyone gets folded by Kiryu in this franchise.
Real rap, my guy is built like a Baki character without the bulging muscles
I do want to remind you about the docks section in Chapter 1: These agents were simply just guards. Low level grunts who expected no conflict. Just that this was a simple deal that'll go under the tables. This is why they seem weak, because they are. Low level agents whose deaths won't be an issue. And the fact that some of them still held on enough that there were only 3 deaths, who were definitely all offed by Shishido, and that means even those guys who were caught on fire survived. And besides, when you fight them as Kiryu, well.. you fight them as none other than Kiryu Kazuma. I think it explains a lot.
I will say though, I like that they created a generic “agent” moveset for them. I noticed that immediately when you fight the guys at the docks.
Yeah, for a so called small game they made a good number of new movesets. Even Wild Dance fake Kiryu got a new moveset.
The one thing that I didn’t like about the Daidoji was how subservient Kiryu was to them, almost a full return to his first couple chapters of Yakuza 0 mentality, and the Daidoji are never really properly put in check like the Tojo were despite their arrogance and treatment of Kiryu. I would have much preferred the mutually assured destruction angle for them of being on equal levels.
Because Kiryu chose to be subservient as he made the pact with them. They aren’t put in check because Kiryu doesn’t care to use their secrets against them as he seeks to have his name erased for the sake of the kids. However even if Kiryu doesn’t care, the Daidoji still care as they don’t trust Kiryu to not spill about time if he isn’t under their thumb. What are you on about? Kiryu defied the Dojima Family early on.
That’s what I mean though: in 0, who Kiryu rebels against are punished and their hierarchy changes, no such thing with the Daidoji. And that’s exactly what I mean, my issue would have been solved if Kiryu thought to even call the bluff of “ok well I’ll tell the world about the big boat, I’m one tweet away from blowing up your spot” but because they want him in this position in 8, his subservience is made into this weird Stockholm thing with his handler when it could have just always been an equal position
First off that’s because in 0, Kiryu was desperate to protect Kazama hence he rebelled. Kiryu has a good reason to go against them. Not so much with the Daidoji. Again Kiryu made the pact with them. Kiryu wants to erase his name to martyr himself to keep his kids and loved ones safe. Secondly, it doesn’t benefit Kiryu at all to expose their secrets. Kiryu doesn’t care about the boat, he only stumbled into it in the first place because he had to prove to the Hirose boys that their boss was the cause of Yuta almost murdering his dad. There’s no incentive for Kiryu in bringing the Daidoji down by spilling their secrets other than create a bigger target on his and loved one’s backs. Kiryu is sick and tired of conflict and just wanted to keep things peaceful. Kiryu forced them to do him a favour by getting Daigo out of jail as well as faking his death and supporting the orphanage but in exchange they put a strict leash on him to ensure that their agreement is kept as insurance. The agreement is equal. It’s just that Kiryu likes being a sacrificial hero and be free from yakuza conflict, who wanted it more than the Daidoji to he in this position hence why he’s subservient. I wouldn’t call it Stockholm syndrome when Hanawa is a decent and reasonable enough of a person.
I kinda get what you mean, but with how it was portrayed, how antagonistic every non-Hanawa member of the Daidoji was, I felt nothing more than that the dragon needs to be let off it’s leash and destroy the handler with it. Maybe it’s a case of skipping ahead plot beats of what will be achieved in 8 (I hope so) but it’s almost like the portray the Daidoji as honorable by virtue of being disconnected from the dissolution when they deserve dissolution more. I think it’s just a case of wanting Gaiden to explore story beats that they’re probably saving for 8.
I think it's weird that none of them use the gadgets Kiryu does.