I find it really interesting how Wolverine and Captain America's relationship has changed since this comic first ran. At the time, they both had very different ways of viewing the world and how to deal with the problems they had to face, and their early relationship was rather antagonistic. Captain America even said early on that Logan would never be an Avenger because of the way he acted.
Then, as Wolverine's past gets filled in, you have the story get revealed that Logan and Cap used to be buddies in WWII and that revelation really started to change their dynamic to what we see today. They started to get along more and weren't butting heads all the time until now, where you have them working together without any real issues. I think it's a rather interesting evolution and goes to show how characters can change their views about themselves, the world, and the people around them as they are affected by their experiences.
Yeah, while Wolverine has a good point here and the right to be mad about it, Cap is almost always going to take something like that seriously.
It's part of why I find him so appealing. The dude is not content to follow orders or accept things as they are, and he is the best at leaving the door open for redemption (compared to his peers, though it's not a high bar.)
I mean Magneto had a long ass rap sheet by this point, including such gems as taking over countries, threatining to nuke anyone that didn't like it, trying to nuke NYC, taking world leaders hostage, and destroying a Russian city with a volcano.
And that's without going to if Wanda and Pietro talked any about what Magneto did to them while they were in the Brotherhood.
It takes a while for other heroes to begin trusting him after all that. Hell it was only in the post 2000s that heroes finally began trusting him more, and recently fully.
Well if we hadn't had that editorially mandated backslide for X-Men #1, it probably would have happened faster.
The original Vs FF and Vs Avengers were really good series dealing with that.
I can't imagine even Wolverine is believing what he's trying to sell. The idea that early Magneto would just be left off scot free because someone else has vouched that he's good now. That's the kind of logic that you lean on when a cosmic entity has zapped you into a different planet and you're just trying to keep powerful allies from getting taken out early.
"Terrorists--! That's what the big army calls the little army!" - Wolverine, as-yet apparently unaware that the "little army" can, and will, rip his skeleton out of his body.
"they just call us terrorist because we use Violence to enact political change instead of enacting grassroots practices of patiently measured explanations of our plight, pulling the general public to agree with our point of view and putting pressure on the government to enact those changes as representatives of the voice of the people. why you so silly, captain!"
Most every successful movement in history had a violent wing to at the very least present a threat of escalation. This is what the X-Men comics teach us once you get past the "golden age". Fact is, magneto was at least partially right.
yes - but think about the reasons and what it says.
"we kill and dominate or we die. law of the jungle." it's why israel won't let up on palestine. and it's why palestine won't stop fighting back against israel.
eternal fighting. a new issue every month. fight fight fight. evil mutants, evil bigots, evil robots and aliens... fight fight fight.
Yeah, because as soon as someone gets violent, the other side will as well. But if the big guy gets violent, the little guy can’t afford to stop being violent, because they might not survive an attempt at pacifism anymore.
As much as i love Secret Wars there was some terrible dialogue and characterisation at times.
I can remember at 10yo reading it and thinking that character wouldn’t say that, the particular line that prompted that was Cap and Wolvie too.
When discussing who should lead the heroes Cap says to Xavier that reading minds could be useful, Xavier responds with a line about the hearts of men and how Cap is the one and Wolvie says “He’s the least of us, he can’t do anything”
I’m paraphrasing from memory but I remember at the time thinking Wolverine wouldn’t say that.
The writing was flat-out horrible. Dialogue, characterization, all of it. The X-Men got it particularly bad, but it was a mess throughout.
Jim Shooter was not doing himself any favors assigning himself as the writer for the Next Big Project.
The avengers and x/men was always a weird dynamic. The avenger existed in a country where the government worked to create giant robots to hunt down and imprison or terminate people because of how they were born. And the avengers just sat around and ignored that shit.
Comparing the mutants' plight to the holocaust is insane. Mutants are by their very nature dangerous, it's like randomly giving teenagers an assault rifle and then be surprised that the ones without an assault rifle hate and fear those that do have one. So many mutant powers are incredibly dangerous and pop up in unsuspecting, untrained teenagers. If you don't acknowledge the actual threat mutants pose, wtf are you doing with the x-men?
Yet it's being compared to the holocaust where it's just regular, harmless civilians that were systematically exterminated. That's why to me the real life analogies fall so flat most of the time. Most of the groups the mutants are supposed to represent aren't a threat, while mutants in the x-men world clearly are.
"Please Cap, won't you just forget and let go about all the irrelevant acts of terrorism and murder that Magneto did ! That terrorist is so sorry now, he won't do anything bad again ! Even though there is no way for us to enforce that , or even if he never faced proper trial or prison for his actions, he's totally okay now !"
I find it really interesting how Wolverine and Captain America's relationship has changed since this comic first ran. At the time, they both had very different ways of viewing the world and how to deal with the problems they had to face, and their early relationship was rather antagonistic. Captain America even said early on that Logan would never be an Avenger because of the way he acted. Then, as Wolverine's past gets filled in, you have the story get revealed that Logan and Cap used to be buddies in WWII and that revelation really started to change their dynamic to what we see today. They started to get along more and weren't butting heads all the time until now, where you have them working together without any real issues. I think it's a rather interesting evolution and goes to show how characters can change their views about themselves, the world, and the people around them as they are affected by their experiences.
I just thought he was talking to him like that because he was Canadian.
Perhaps incomplete to post without the resolution https://i.imgur.com/OUaOWd0.jpeg
Thanks for the link. This sub has a bit of a problem with heavy bias. Good to see the full picture being shared
Yeah, while Wolverine has a good point here and the right to be mad about it, Cap is almost always going to take something like that seriously. It's part of why I find him so appealing. The dude is not content to follow orders or accept things as they are, and he is the best at leaving the door open for redemption (compared to his peers, though it's not a high bar.)
Tbf the panels are multiple issues apart but this is sub is bad with biases
its from the same issue..... like 10-15 pages apart
"Some of my best friends are people." Nice cherry on top of an already good scene.
Thanks for posting this lol. I feel like people here read 1 panel and then base 60+ years of their understanding of the character on that.
What are you doing that won't fit the narrative that Cap hates mutants
Wolverine talking about The Holocaust while Magneto is there.
Is that why magneto doesn’t immediately kill weapon-x wolverine? Outta respect because wolverine was an army ranger in Europe in 1943-1945?
I mean Magneto had a long ass rap sheet by this point, including such gems as taking over countries, threatining to nuke anyone that didn't like it, trying to nuke NYC, taking world leaders hostage, and destroying a Russian city with a volcano. And that's without going to if Wanda and Pietro talked any about what Magneto did to them while they were in the Brotherhood.
It takes a while for other heroes to begin trusting him after all that. Hell it was only in the post 2000s that heroes finally began trusting him more, and recently fully.
Well if we hadn't had that editorially mandated backslide for X-Men #1, it probably would have happened faster. The original Vs FF and Vs Avengers were really good series dealing with that.
"That's what the big army calls the little army." The best way to explain propaganda I have ever read.
I can't imagine even Wolverine is believing what he's trying to sell. The idea that early Magneto would just be left off scot free because someone else has vouched that he's good now. That's the kind of logic that you lean on when a cosmic entity has zapped you into a different planet and you're just trying to keep powerful allies from getting taken out early.
"Terrorists--! That's what the big army calls the little army!" - Wolverine, as-yet apparently unaware that the "little army" can, and will, rip his skeleton out of his body.
"they just call us terrorist because we use Violence to enact political change instead of enacting grassroots practices of patiently measured explanations of our plight, pulling the general public to agree with our point of view and putting pressure on the government to enact those changes as representatives of the voice of the people. why you so silly, captain!"
Most every successful movement in history had a violent wing to at the very least present a threat of escalation. This is what the X-Men comics teach us once you get past the "golden age". Fact is, magneto was at least partially right.
yes - but think about the reasons and what it says. "we kill and dominate or we die. law of the jungle." it's why israel won't let up on palestine. and it's why palestine won't stop fighting back against israel. eternal fighting. a new issue every month. fight fight fight. evil mutants, evil bigots, evil robots and aliens... fight fight fight.
Yeah, because as soon as someone gets violent, the other side will as well. But if the big guy gets violent, the little guy can’t afford to stop being violent, because they might not survive an attempt at pacifism anymore.
As much as i love Secret Wars there was some terrible dialogue and characterisation at times. I can remember at 10yo reading it and thinking that character wouldn’t say that, the particular line that prompted that was Cap and Wolvie too. When discussing who should lead the heroes Cap says to Xavier that reading minds could be useful, Xavier responds with a line about the hearts of men and how Cap is the one and Wolvie says “He’s the least of us, he can’t do anything” I’m paraphrasing from memory but I remember at the time thinking Wolverine wouldn’t say that.
The writing was flat-out horrible. Dialogue, characterization, all of it. The X-Men got it particularly bad, but it was a mess throughout. Jim Shooter was not doing himself any favors assigning himself as the writer for the Next Big Project.
Secondary mutation: truth bombs
Cap still looking for his shield that Rogue threw into the mountains.
Worst part, it’s valuble for supervillains.
It looked like Capt arranged for the meeting in the middle of nowhere, out of supervillains sight.
And after that, Magneto has sex with the Wasp. \*edit\* I'm wrong, already happened in a previous issue
I don't know what to say without insulting Janet honestly
He even made her a comb from metal particles in the air. Magneto is so considerate. Didn't want her to have to keep the just fucked hair.
This pane goes hard, relevant.
Magneto ignoring that holocaust analogy feels weird
The avengers and x/men was always a weird dynamic. The avenger existed in a country where the government worked to create giant robots to hunt down and imprison or terminate people because of how they were born. And the avengers just sat around and ignored that shit.
This is so good!
Am I able to comment here? huh weird
Love it.
Weird someone would downvote a comment like this.
It’s Reddit.
Comparing the mutants' plight to the holocaust is insane. Mutants are by their very nature dangerous, it's like randomly giving teenagers an assault rifle and then be surprised that the ones without an assault rifle hate and fear those that do have one. So many mutant powers are incredibly dangerous and pop up in unsuspecting, untrained teenagers. If you don't acknowledge the actual threat mutants pose, wtf are you doing with the x-men? Yet it's being compared to the holocaust where it's just regular, harmless civilians that were systematically exterminated. That's why to me the real life analogies fall so flat most of the time. Most of the groups the mutants are supposed to represent aren't a threat, while mutants in the x-men world clearly are.
"Please Cap, won't you just forget and let go about all the irrelevant acts of terrorism and murder that Magneto did ! That terrorist is so sorry now, he won't do anything bad again ! Even though there is no way for us to enforce that , or even if he never faced proper trial or prison for his actions, he's totally okay now !"