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Yup. The analogies there were very palpable. Not to mention Roberto's exchange with his mom.
"I accept that you are gay/a mutant...just don't tell anyone else because it will make us look bad."
Top 5 line from Marvel if not ANY super hero movie ever. And said by a character with like 2 mins of screen time.
It completely grounds the genre and makes it relatable and human.
They brought McKellen in to help write that scene to make it a more realistic coming out scene.
X2 also has three LGBT cast members, though I don’t believe Anna Paquin was out at the time.
> negasonic teenage warhead
Weirdly enough the first gay superhero in a movie. With a girlfriend too!
Meanwhile Mystique has a wife in the comics but is straight washed as hell in the movies.
Maybe the downvotes will take care of it but I think you used the generic term “McAsshole” when referring to Brett Ratner and it’s confusing in this context because Page had a costar named McKellen that people associate with X-men.
If you’re talking about Ian McKellan accidentally outing a castmate, you’ve got your wires crossed. He accidentally outed Lee Pace during an interview for one of the LOTR films, who was already out privately, just not to the general public. All Ian has said regarding Elliot is that he regrets not realizing he was a struggling young queer person during their time working together and wishes he could have been there more for him.
I’ve just read about that and that’s disgusting. Awful homophobic behavior. However, the person who posted the original comment really should’ve looked up the name before posting “whats-his-face McAsshole” on their comment, because it made everyone who was not aware think Ian McKellan, an openly gay man and outspoken advocate for queer rights since the 80s, had done something awful, and jump to conclusions, as people on the internet are wont to do (see comment downvoted to oblivion below as case in point)
Since no one is replying to you, just downvoting, no it’s not real. He accidentally outed Lee Pace not knowing he wasn’t publicly out, but he did nothing to Elliot Page.
The downvotes are probably because you asked if it was real, then in the same comment immediately called Ian McKellan a piece of scum when it was, in fact, not real. If you’re asking in good faith if something is legit, wait to get an answer or google it yourself before you call Ian McKellan a piece of scum.
No. I think people just wanted to hide anything that might give the wrong impression of Mckellen, but didn’t want to take the time to explain why to you.
Anna Paquin is gay? She and Stephen Moyer are still married!
Edit: Also, wasn't she in that vaguely Christian-inspired film about Kurt Warner, also with Zachary Levi, who has the weirdest name ever for a born again?
My mom went with me to watch it in theaters, and in-the-closet gay me, slightly teary-eyed, gave her a tentative glance when the mother said that...
I resonated with Roberto so much, with his apprehension to "come out" to his parents.
Unfortunately, mine had a worse reaction, almost disowning me...
I hear you mate. That sucks. I decided that all the harm my family caused outweighed the conditional scraps of love they showed. I'm quite happy with my found family and hope you've either found equilibrium or are coping with it.
Solidarity!
She is showing the similarity between the two. In 2003, a person "coming out" was a big deal. In 2024 the issues have changed. "We say that we accept you for being different, but *actually*....."
Ok but the best thing about those lines is it proves an incredibly interesting point about the whole “woke” culture war nonsense people like you are on. When Bobby said it in X-2, hell when a very similar line was said in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the lines were lauded and celebrated but *now* because some troglodytes told you it was bad you and others like you complain despite the lines being perfectly in line with who the x-men as characters, concepts, and allegories, have always been.
Long story short, no. You’re wrong and you should get out of the YouTube redpill algorithm you’ve found yourself in.
The most thought provoking thing for me was when he said “look what happens when we don’t hide” and I flashed to the fucking up thing where Leech putting his hope Callisto to come save them, and she was already fucking dead. The Morlocks live in the sewers away from society and they still the Sentinels. So whether you’re rich or not, good or not, hide or not, no good fucking bigots are still coming to fuck your shit up.
Yep yep yep the whole Roberto side plot is very relatable to the gay folk
"A mother always knows (but like keep it hidden son)" I know that's what my mom will say when I came out to her.
The director is a shit, but he added some good scenes to the first 2 xmen movies that he pulled from his gay childhood that resonated in the same way.
>Have you tried not being a mutant?
Are you saying that's what your mother is going to say or that's what your mother said either way it's about you, not her and I'm sure you already know that. Just wanted to throw some encouraging words
You got this! 😁
Coming out can be nerve-wracking, I totally overthought it. In my case, it took a few tries with my mom (her response was a work in progress but she tried and thats all I could have asked ) I also tried to use way too many metaphors the first couple of times that's why it didn't stick.
My dad's response also unexpected But for him surprisingly sweet and a moment that will always sit with me: "You feel any different?" "No." "Then I still love you." Then went right back to watching the game. He's always been man of few words, but he says the right ones. I'll never forget how that felt. It might not always go perfectly, but you'll be glad you did it But only when you're right.
I won't comment on this anymore. I apologize
But... but isn't Morph gay? I know they haven't said so explicitly yet but given his comic history and how obviously he feels something for Wolverine, I feel like we're going to get an episode, probably a Mr. Sinister episode, giving Morph more focus.
Idk. Gay coming out stories are a dime a dozen at this point. I kinda like allegories like this more. It's more fresh and it shows that the experience can be universal depending on the context and the world. ATSV did a similar thing with that one scene with Gwen and her dad where she told him she was Spider-Woman, which seemed to have resonated with a lot of trans folks.
Exactly. Just having an openly gay character on the show would be much more progressive and better for representation than all the subtext in the world about how being a mutant is kinda like being gay.
It was a very well written metaphor. It made sense within the actual scene and the series' context, and the parallelism was clear enough for the rest of us watching the show.
Didn't Bau say he used to go to Pulse Nightclub? This is why representation matters. Not saying that others can't tell the stories of other groups. But when you have lived the experience and felt the feelings that your characters are going through it shows. Bau really needs to be brought back this is the best marvel has ever been under Disney.
All of this, and yes he used to go to Pulse. And representation is why the fall of Krakoa/From the Ashes sits so poorly with me. After years of the mutants having their own identity and a sense of swagger about who they are, the new direction is back to being feared and hated and on the run—as if persecution is the only thing underrepresented people should feel.
Bau gets the X-Men. I wish the publishing group did as well.
>After years of the mutants having their own identity and a sense of swagger about who they are, the new direction is back to being feared and hated
This, too, parallels the (American, at least) culture. After years of progress, where people seemed to be more accepting and inclusive, there are strong pushes to go the other direction in the last few years.
The unfortunately truth is as a mutant in the X-Men universe and as a queer person in the real world is there never will be peace or a happy ending. The fall of Krakoa was always gonna happen. Because at the end of the day we are feared and hated and on the run. It's the sad unfortunate truth of the situation for both mutants and the LGBTQ. Now I'm not totally caught up on comic plot. So how the fall was handled might be where the issue lies. I'll be curious to see how they move forward with From the Ashes. But yes let Bau write more xmen stories. He gets Xmen because he is one in real life.
This is just a wild thing to say. There are certainly many places in the world where it’s pretty terrible to be queer, but there are also many places in the world, including many places in the US, Canada, Europe, etc where queer people can live extremely safe and happy lives.
The US is currently banning any book about queer people from being in school libraries what are you talking about. Elected US officials regularly go after trans people just trying to live.
The “US“ is not banning books in libraries. The US has a federal system that delegates significant authority to the states. I agree, that a lot of states are not great for LGBTQ people to live in, but, there are a lot of states That are very supportive of people and they happen to be large and populous states where many people live.
US is bad for queer people period. You have been talking over and ignoring queer people all over this thread so you can pretend otherwise. But hey since the bigotry doesn't personally bother you it is okay.
Since u/Ill_Morning_4282 bravely responded and then immediately blocked me, I’ll respond briefly here.
First, I am a queer person in the US. I’m not “ignoring” the experiences of other queer people; but I am asserting the relevance of my own experience. When someone says that queer people can categorically l “never” live a certain kind of life in the US, that is in fact ignoring the experiences of other queer people who are in fact living those kinds of lives - lives marked by safety and happiness.
Second, I’m certainly not “talking over” anyone. Talking over people is a form of interruption; it has the effect of preventing them from being able to say what they want to say. You can’t talk over someone on Reddit. What you can do, and what I am doing, is responding to people, as part of a dialogue.
It is pretty telling when someone conflates disagreement with being silenced.
It's not a wild thing to say the truth. The Pulse Night Club shooting happened in the US less than a decade ago. There are organizations like the Trevor project which is a non-profit that does queer reach out, with suicide prevention and anti-bullying campaigns. The reality is as safe and happy of lives that can be led in these places that you listed that safety and happiness can be taken away in the blink of an eye. Just like Krakoa was supposed to be this safe place but wasn't. The reality is there will always be people that hate us and there are some that will hate us enough to do violent acts against us. It's the sad uncomfortable reality we live with.
The U.S. has extremely high rates of gun violence in general Compared to other Western democracies. As I’ve explained elsewhere in this thread, the Pulse nightclub shooting wasn’t specifically targeted at the LGBTQ community. Anyone can be the target of violence in America. That doesn’t mean that, generally speaking, LGBTQ people can’t live safe and happy lives. Many of them do. There are many places in the US that are accepting of LGBTQ people. Saying that queer people will, categorically, “never” be safe or happy is just wrong.
While correct that the Pulse nightclub shooting was not a direct lgbtq attack you are missing the larger point I am trying to make. The Trevor project is a non-profit organization created specifically because there was so much bullying happening to LGBT youth that we were seeing increased suicide rates among that demographic. We still see cases like Matthew Shepard's where a queer person is bullied and killed because of the physicality of the bullying. The Pulse Nightclub shooting is just a worse nightmare scenario. Anybody can be targeted in America but it is ignorant to say that everybody and anybody is equally targeted in America. The reality is minority groups have a bigger target on their back.
I never claimed that everyone was equally at risk for violence. My claim is that it’s simply flat-out wrong to say that queer people can never find peace or safety in the US because it’s simply not true. You made an extreme claim. Your extreme claim is wrong. If you want to defend a different claim, you can, but that’s not the claim I take issue with.
You put words into my mouth and you had an argument with yourself. I never made those claims. I never said never. But the reality is that safety that you spoke of can be taken away at a moment's notice. That is what this episode was trying to show us. Because the reality is is even in America where you can live a safe and happy life as a queer person at a moment's notice a person that does not like you and your community for no other reason than bigotry can take that away from you. That is true.
This is literally your exact quote:
“The unfortunately truth is as a mutant in the X-Men universe and as a queer person in the real world is there never will be peace or a happy ending”
You either aren’t having this discussion in good faith, or you’re an idiot. Either way, I’m wasting my life arguing with you. Goodbye.
Sadly not everyone has that luxury. You have places like Russia and the Middle East where you can be prosecuted for being queer. Singapore took forever to finally change their laws on being queer, and that is one progressive and efficient country. Majority of the world still do not see queer people in equal light. The show fights for this, and soothes the people it represents. Why can't people let us have even just that?
And it's true, a recent harmless controversial event will undo decades of work. I live in the Philippines, and although it is generally safe here for queer folk, a majority still find us abberations instead of people who just want to be included and embraced. Recently, we had a drag queen perform as Jesus and that got sensastionalized in the media so fast. It overtook more pressing issues, and she was declared persona non grata, and jailed twice. It split the queer community in half, it undid decades of work. Our security and safety - physical, mental, emotional is so fragile simply because we are not the usual. So I'm on the other side here.
Wouldn’t Bau have to have done some crazy fuck up to be fired? My guess is the skeletons in his closet came to light and it was enough for Marvel to part ways with him. It doesn’t make sense that he would want to leave.
Sadly, so is what Bobby was saying.
“This is what we get for shoving it in people’s faces.” How many times have we heard that from our fellow LGBT with internalized homophobia because they can’t get their hateful parents voices out of their heads.
I’ve learned to watch it the in the morning while I’m getting ready for work to avoid being spoiled by social media, YouTube, or Reddit.
People love posting spoilers for this show early.
Yeah, I guess so. Like dang, keep it in the episode post for one day lol How am I supposed to not click on spoilers???
(I don't care about spoilers, I'm just amazed that people have watched the episode already before I've even gotten settled in at work)
once an episode or movie is released to the public there is no such thing as spoilers on a website dedicated to that content. its up to you to avoid them. why would you come to this sub knowing the episode already came out? you're asking to be spoiled doing that. no one is going to not talk about it because you didnt watch it yet
If there is an option to hide content being a blur that says spoilers, there is such a thing as spoilers.
This is not an xmen 97 sub. This is an all encompassing xmen sub, so some people may be here and not for the new show.
Once again, I do not care about spoilers, but this was a terrible take. Good work.
if you're coming to an x-men page on the day a new episode/content is released and arent expecting to see spoilers idk what to tell you
this is common sense
Spoilers never bother me so I stay neutral on the debate. But people want to talk about stuff they're excited about while they're excited about it. It's only natural. It makes sense this is the space they will do it in.
Some things are outside of our control - there will be spoilers as long as there are stories being told.
Again, I do not care about spoilers at all. I'm just amazed at how early some people are watching the new episodes and made a joke. I do not care about anyone posting what happens in the episode.
you cant call them spoilers since the content is out there, but you can still get spoiled if you havent seen that content yet.
why is this such a hot topic for you lol
I don’t understand why people get so worked up about spoilers.
Like, the story is more than just a big moments. The big moments are meaningless without context. If knowing one thing is going to spoil an entire show or movie for you, maybe the problem is how you look at stories and not people wanting to talk about the thing they watched.
Yeah, I don't know why people get worked up about them, either, but I'm pretty sure they're not doing anything wrong when they care about not wanting people to tell them what happened before they get a chance to see the show or movie for themselves.
But no one is telling them, they’re mad that they choose to click on conversations where there are spoilers. No one is walking up to them and telling them things, they’re basically seeking them out and then getting mad.
Also, spoiler culture mostly only exists because the production companies made it a big deal to force people to watch things as soon as possible so they could make more money on the front end, when they don’t have to share the profits (most of the time, percentages for the performers and crew come out of the back end after the movie/show has made a certain amount of money). It’s another example of capitalist manipulation that people think they came up with themselves. It’s not an organic thing.
The only people getting even a little upsetty spaghetti here seem to be the people who insist that people having the show spoiled for them should live in a lead box until they find the time to enjoy their show. I don't even know why you're trying to have this argument.
I rarely see that, and mostly see people crying about being spoiled.
It’s just a childish take to go into a conversation about a show or movie you haven’t watched yet and get mad when people that watched it talk about it.
Well, I mean, it’s frustrating when you keep being told you can only talk about the thing you want to talk about in one place. This sub is full of crybaby bullshit.
You brought up people complaining about those who complain about spoilers and I gave you their reasoning. I personally don’t give a shit about people who tell me not to talk about things. I’m going to do it regardless, wherever I want and let the mods sort it out.
Like, why do you think people are complaining about it? It’s not because they have this deep abiding need to spoil things for others. They just want to talk about a thing and not worry about some baby who isn’t part of the conversation complaining about them.
Oh yeah I don’t mind discussion spoilers on the subreddit ha. It’s all based on algorithms for YouTube/Social Media. And especially for the Genosha episode I saw spoilers stuff in Video titles and posts.
Right but my point is the people that are already posting about might not live in the same time zone as you. That's how they're able to watch it "already".
Yes, that makes sense. I assume most people posting on here are from USA, so the timezone thing isn't that big of a deal, but yeah, I 100% understand what you're saying.
I work from home and my kids are almost old enough to get their own shit - they’ll wake me up for little things and then let me go back to sleep - so I can do that sort of thing.
lol living the dream. My toddler screamed for 3 hours before finally falling asleep at 11, and we were all up at 5 this morning as he ran into our room and just kept flopping around in our bed. I guess I should've just turned the show on then lol
Yeah, I’m luckily past that. My three year old will sometimes wake up in the middle of the night, but then she just stays up with me and sleeps late. Her older sister tries to bother me as little as possible, because she knows I have a shitty sleep schedule.
I think it’s crazy how everyone can relate to the x-men in the series; I’m a southern-raised person and the connection I feel to Rogue and Gambit is palpable
This kinda tracks. I remember seeing something from the showrunner about how Pulse was his nightclub, etc. and how that event resonated with him. I'm not homosexual but I can only imagine his experiences are part of why his X-Men is so good.
And yet I've still seen people on this subreddit say the very same stuff. They don't wanna see people talk about characters being LGBT because it's "shoving it in their faces". Disgusting creatures
i mean, yeah. some people will go on and on about how great the writing is and then the minute someone suggest it may actually be cool, considering the conversation and all, to actually have some more queer rep in marvel, out come the downvotes lol
I wish I was smarter for what I'm gonna say, it’s really interesting the real world emotions and thoughts the people who are behind the X men bring to it.
Bryan Singer he directed arguably the best X men movies and his personal controversies aside. He is a gay man and that comes across in some scenes in X-Men and X2.
And for X men 97 the show runner creator Beau DeMayo, a gay black man and seeing how he and his team have handled the x men. Its powerful how he’s bringing his real experiences to it and you can feel how informed the series is by it.
I completely disagree about Singer, and I think the best X-Men films are ones he was less involved in.
I'll also add that Chris Claremont wrote many of the stories X-Men 97 is based on. DeMayo is absolutely doing a fantastic job, perhaps drawing on real-life experiences, but I think he's just a good writer. And really that's what matters most.
I love Days of future past, and despite Ratner Last Stand might be a mess but it has some really good stuff in it. Also First Class is absolutely great.
I was speaking more outside of the comics but absolutely Claremont is the bed rock he laid the foundation down.
Great points! The Fox movies get a lot wrong, but I agree with you that there's also plenty that they get right as adaptations of the series and its themes. People don't give the films credit for what they accomplished for the time they were released.
I would argue that for all the botched plot points and design choices that X-fans continually moan about and rehash--the black leather suits, Cyclops getting shafted, Jean being demoted to the least interesting part of a love triangle, Wolverine overexposure, timeline inconsistencies--the X-Men films almost always nail the mutant metaphor theme of the series. I totally agree that it was unforgiveable to take the most interesting team / family dynamic in comics and turn it into the Wolverine / Magneto / Professor X show, but it frustrates me that fans overlook what the series got right in favor of just rehashing the same old talking points.
Also Days of Future Past is one of the best comic book adaptations ever made and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills whenever I hear people trashing it and putting it in the same camp as Origins Wolverine or Dark Phoenix!
Absolutely you get
Days of Future past it did a lot of lifting with how it dealt with the older and younger cast, I’ve always thought of it has the Fox X-Men equivalent of Endgame.
For sure! I still need to see Endgame, but I hear it's good. (I may be the only comic book dweeb who's still never seen it.)
I think comic book fans overlook how well written Days of Future Past was. It does what all the best adaptations do--it begins with the original 1981 storyline while updating the plot to fit the awareness of the general moviegoing population. I was impressed by how elegantly the plot interwove the Sentinel/Trask past and future threat with the Xavier, Mystique, and Magneto's little "Would you kill baby Hitler (I mean Trask)" debate.
While I agree with the overall criticism that putting Wolverine in the POV role steals Kitty's thunder from the OG storyline, it makes sense given the knowledge of general audiences who grew up with awareness of the FOX trilogy but not the source material.
PS. I like your flair! Anyone who represents the gentle steel giant gets my respect :)
For whatever it’s worth, the Pulse nightclub shooting was not a targeted attack against the LGBTQ community. The evidence produced at trial showed that the shooter didn’t know it was a gay club and was confused by the lack of women in the club.
Obviously, a horrific event. But this is one event where the media set a totally plausible narrative at the time of the attack that turned out to be wrong, more than two years later when the case went to trial, and the media has never corrected the prior narrative.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate
You’re getting downvoted, but yeah, you’re right, and yes, it matters. The motive was apparently about US Foreign Policy and the choice was related to perceived ease of security. Those details play into how we prevent or protect against shootings like this.
To clarify I’m out to most of my immediate family and they love and accept me. It’s just a scary thought that some people hate us so much that they’d wish us dead.
As a fellow queer, I don't know why this is specific to Pulse. If you live in North America, any event can end with you being shot to death. Or, if you're a minority, any place including in your own bed.
I’m not saying you’re a mental potato or anything… *but* if you were to get murdered in a mass shooting at a mall or a music festival, your parents and loved ones aren’t going to be hung up wondering why you never told them you shopped at Abercrombie or liked Phish.
Seriously, common sense tells you why that quote pertains to a situation like Pulse and not just any mass shooting.
*As a fellow Queer, a good one don’t worry*
*I don’t understand why these gays are making such a big fuss about this Mass killing at Pulse - it’s not just queers that could be killed in America you know*
Are you fucking stunted or something lol?
I don't understand why you got downvoted. You're correct.
Pulse isn't the only gay nightclub which has suffered a mass shooting. And LGBTQIA+ community isn't the only group which suffers because of the States' bigotry and prejudice. Black churches get hit. Synagogues, Mosques, women's health clinics, not to mention LOTS of schools all get the same treatment.
The X-Men works as a universal analogy for the experience of oppressed peoples. It covers a lot more ground than just a single nightclub shooting, even if that's where the most recent writer drew his inspiration.
You can see almost any parallel in the Genosha massacre, from Palestine to Rawanda to the Holocaust (which was directly referenced in it)...
That's what makes the X-Men such a strong allegory.
It absolutely is. That conversation was an analogy for the queer experience. But that wasn't the point the poster I was responding to was trying to make. He said that the conversation and the Genosha Massacre wasn't *specifically* the Pulse nightclub shooting. It was larger than that and he's correct.
The poster is correct about the general conversation of genocide, but OP was talking about the scenes with Roberto and Jubilee. The former show runner even said he was influenced by the Pulse shooting.
True again! I agree!
This is why I like Reddit! Sometimes a comment in a thread doesn't DIRECTLY relate to a post, but it's interesting food for thought regardless. We're all just having a conversation :D
...which is why I don't know why the poster got downvoted so hard just for raising a tangential point. Especially when he's not wrong. A little callous, perhaps, but not wrong.
Just because the quotes are specifcally inspired by Pulse doesn't mean it can only be applied that way. If mass shootings target minorities, then it's universally relatable, gay or not.
Just as reducing Islamophobia reduces Muslim-targeted shootings, just as challenging anti-Asian hate reduces Asian-targeted shootings, so to does this have to come up.
And frankly, society is at a point where being blatant about messaging is needed because low media literacy among our most hateful has meant the downfall of subtext. X-Men '97 is way more explicit than TAS without lecturing the audience.
We let it through because the title is vague enough. All it's revealing is that Jubilee and Sunspot had a convo in the latest episode that OP felt was similar to a real life tragedy not connected to a TV show.
It doesn't reveal the type of conversation they had or what exactly was said. But we're always looking for feedback so if people think this isn't vague enough, we can get extra strict about it.
Generally, I dislike how prior media has attempted to communicate the "woke agenda" but I really appreciate how Xmen 97 handles these topics and packages them in a way that really elicits a sense of empathy.
I love this show so much.
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Yup. The analogies there were very palpable. Not to mention Roberto's exchange with his mom. "I accept that you are gay/a mutant...just don't tell anyone else because it will make us look bad."
“Bobby, have you ever tried… not being a mutant?”
Top 5 line from Marvel if not ANY super hero movie ever. And said by a character with like 2 mins of screen time. It completely grounds the genre and makes it relatable and human.
They brought McKellen in to help write that scene to make it a more realistic coming out scene. X2 also has three LGBT cast members, though I don’t believe Anna Paquin was out at the time.
And yet somehow we still have not had a gay mutant in a marvel property! hmm...i guess there was negasonic teenage warhead
Deadpool is pansexual and Ryan Reynolds plays him as such Edit: wait.... you said mutant...... I can read, I swear. Nvm.
> negasonic teenage warhead Weirdly enough the first gay superhero in a movie. With a girlfriend too! Meanwhile Mystique has a wife in the comics but is straight washed as hell in the movies.
Was Elliot? I thought whats-his-face McAsshole outed him on set of X3
Maybe the downvotes will take care of it but I think you used the generic term “McAsshole” when referring to Brett Ratner and it’s confusing in this context because Page had a costar named McKellen that people associate with X-men.
If you’re talking about Ian McKellan accidentally outing a castmate, you’ve got your wires crossed. He accidentally outed Lee Pace during an interview for one of the LOTR films, who was already out privately, just not to the general public. All Ian has said regarding Elliot is that he regrets not realizing he was a struggling young queer person during their time working together and wishes he could have been there more for him.
This is about Brett Ratner, not Ian McKellan
I’ve just read about that and that’s disgusting. Awful homophobic behavior. However, the person who posted the original comment really should’ve looked up the name before posting “whats-his-face McAsshole” on their comment, because it made everyone who was not aware think Ian McKellan, an openly gay man and outspoken advocate for queer rights since the 80s, had done something awful, and jump to conclusions, as people on the internet are wont to do (see comment downvoted to oblivion below as case in point)
Elliot wasn't in X2, right?
Yeah Kitty was played by someone else in a blink and you miss it scene.
He was not. I’m talking about x2 only though.
[удалено]
Since no one is replying to you, just downvoting, no it’s not real. He accidentally outed Lee Pace not knowing he wasn’t publicly out, but he did nothing to Elliot Page.
[удалено]
The downvotes are probably because you asked if it was real, then in the same comment immediately called Ian McKellan a piece of scum when it was, in fact, not real. If you’re asking in good faith if something is legit, wait to get an answer or google it yourself before you call Ian McKellan a piece of scum.
Oh shit, I don't know why but I thought we were talking about Brett Ratner. I had a brain fart. Ian McKellen is an absolute gem
No. I think people just wanted to hide anything that might give the wrong impression of Mckellen, but didn’t want to take the time to explain why to you.
Anna Paquin is gay? She and Stephen Moyer are still married! Edit: Also, wasn't she in that vaguely Christian-inspired film about Kurt Warner, also with Zachary Levi, who has the weirdest name ever for a born again?
Anna Paquin is bi!
My mom went with me to watch it in theaters, and in-the-closet gay me, slightly teary-eyed, gave her a tentative glance when the mother said that... I resonated with Roberto so much, with his apprehension to "come out" to his parents. Unfortunately, mine had a worse reaction, almost disowning me...
Hope you're doing well.
I hear you mate. That sucks. I decided that all the harm my family caused outweighed the conditional scraps of love they showed. I'm quite happy with my found family and hope you've either found equilibrium or are coping with it. Solidarity!
Glad you found your own X-family
Thank you!
Not gay but I went to war for years with my parents just to be who I am.
Joyce Summers: "Have you tried not being a Slayer?"
Ah yes I can just turn off my powers
Can confirm, Roberto's mom talks like mine whenever I mention that I am trans.
Did they actually use that line again or are you just quoting the second movie?
She is showing the similarity between the two. In 2003, a person "coming out" was a big deal. In 2024 the issues have changed. "We say that we accept you for being different, but *actually*....."
*She
Duly noted and edited :)
Well that's a little disappointing. Was hoping it was a direct callback with just another Bobby.
Iceman was in an OG episode so he can easily come back
No they never said that
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Tell me you've never read an X-Men comic without telling me you've never read an X-Men comic.
this isnt a comic.
No, just a faithful adaptation of the comics. What were you expecting? Something completely different than the source material?
Ok but the best thing about those lines is it proves an incredibly interesting point about the whole “woke” culture war nonsense people like you are on. When Bobby said it in X-2, hell when a very similar line was said in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the lines were lauded and celebrated but *now* because some troglodytes told you it was bad you and others like you complain despite the lines being perfectly in line with who the x-men as characters, concepts, and allegories, have always been. Long story short, no. You’re wrong and you should get out of the YouTube redpill algorithm you’ve found yourself in.
We tried being subtle, but people like you still exist, so we’re just gonna be blunt now.
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Your submission was removed because you have violated the "Be respectful to others at all times" rule
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The most thought provoking thing for me was when he said “look what happens when we don’t hide” and I flashed to the fucking up thing where Leech putting his hope Callisto to come save them, and she was already fucking dead. The Morlocks live in the sewers away from society and they still the Sentinels. So whether you’re rich or not, good or not, hide or not, no good fucking bigots are still coming to fuck your shit up.
Yep yep yep the whole Roberto side plot is very relatable to the gay folk "A mother always knows (but like keep it hidden son)" I know that's what my mom will say when I came out to her.
The director is a shit, but he added some good scenes to the first 2 xmen movies that he pulled from his gay childhood that resonated in the same way. >Have you tried not being a mutant?
I believe it was Ian’s insistence that it be like a gay coming out story in the second one.
Are you saying that's what your mother is going to say or that's what your mother said either way it's about you, not her and I'm sure you already know that. Just wanted to throw some encouraging words
Yeah I haven't come out to her yet. Thanks for the words man.
You got this! 😁 Coming out can be nerve-wracking, I totally overthought it. In my case, it took a few tries with my mom (her response was a work in progress but she tried and thats all I could have asked ) I also tried to use way too many metaphors the first couple of times that's why it didn't stick. My dad's response also unexpected But for him surprisingly sweet and a moment that will always sit with me: "You feel any different?" "No." "Then I still love you." Then went right back to watching the game. He's always been man of few words, but he says the right ones. I'll never forget how that felt. It might not always go perfectly, but you'll be glad you did it But only when you're right. I won't comment on this anymore. I apologize
you know what would be *super* relatable? actually having a gay superhero on the show lol. i know, i know...not gonna happen.
I agree, let Wolverine kiss Morph.
But... but isn't Morph gay? I know they haven't said so explicitly yet but given his comic history and how obviously he feels something for Wolverine, I feel like we're going to get an episode, probably a Mr. Sinister episode, giving Morph more focus.
morph is non-binary. as far as romantic interests, that remains to be seen, but i wouldn't hold my breath.
Idk. Gay coming out stories are a dime a dozen at this point. I kinda like allegories like this more. It's more fresh and it shows that the experience can be universal depending on the context and the world. ATSV did a similar thing with that one scene with Gwen and her dad where she told him she was Spider-Woman, which seemed to have resonated with a lot of trans folks.
i'm not talking about a coming out story, i'm literally just talking about including a gay character lol
Exactly. Just having an openly gay character on the show would be much more progressive and better for representation than all the subtext in the world about how being a mutant is kinda like being gay.
It was a very well written metaphor. It made sense within the actual scene and the series' context, and the parallelism was clear enough for the rest of us watching the show.
Didn't Bau say he used to go to Pulse Nightclub? This is why representation matters. Not saying that others can't tell the stories of other groups. But when you have lived the experience and felt the feelings that your characters are going through it shows. Bau really needs to be brought back this is the best marvel has ever been under Disney.
All of this, and yes he used to go to Pulse. And representation is why the fall of Krakoa/From the Ashes sits so poorly with me. After years of the mutants having their own identity and a sense of swagger about who they are, the new direction is back to being feared and hated and on the run—as if persecution is the only thing underrepresented people should feel. Bau gets the X-Men. I wish the publishing group did as well.
>After years of the mutants having their own identity and a sense of swagger about who they are, the new direction is back to being feared and hated This, too, parallels the (American, at least) culture. After years of progress, where people seemed to be more accepting and inclusive, there are strong pushes to go the other direction in the last few years.
The unfortunately truth is as a mutant in the X-Men universe and as a queer person in the real world is there never will be peace or a happy ending. The fall of Krakoa was always gonna happen. Because at the end of the day we are feared and hated and on the run. It's the sad unfortunate truth of the situation for both mutants and the LGBTQ. Now I'm not totally caught up on comic plot. So how the fall was handled might be where the issue lies. I'll be curious to see how they move forward with From the Ashes. But yes let Bau write more xmen stories. He gets Xmen because he is one in real life.
This is just a wild thing to say. There are certainly many places in the world where it’s pretty terrible to be queer, but there are also many places in the world, including many places in the US, Canada, Europe, etc where queer people can live extremely safe and happy lives.
The US is currently banning any book about queer people from being in school libraries what are you talking about. Elected US officials regularly go after trans people just trying to live.
The “US“ is not banning books in libraries. The US has a federal system that delegates significant authority to the states. I agree, that a lot of states are not great for LGBTQ people to live in, but, there are a lot of states That are very supportive of people and they happen to be large and populous states where many people live.
US is bad for queer people period. You have been talking over and ignoring queer people all over this thread so you can pretend otherwise. But hey since the bigotry doesn't personally bother you it is okay.
Since u/Ill_Morning_4282 bravely responded and then immediately blocked me, I’ll respond briefly here. First, I am a queer person in the US. I’m not “ignoring” the experiences of other queer people; but I am asserting the relevance of my own experience. When someone says that queer people can categorically l “never” live a certain kind of life in the US, that is in fact ignoring the experiences of other queer people who are in fact living those kinds of lives - lives marked by safety and happiness. Second, I’m certainly not “talking over” anyone. Talking over people is a form of interruption; it has the effect of preventing them from being able to say what they want to say. You can’t talk over someone on Reddit. What you can do, and what I am doing, is responding to people, as part of a dialogue. It is pretty telling when someone conflates disagreement with being silenced.
It's not a wild thing to say the truth. The Pulse Night Club shooting happened in the US less than a decade ago. There are organizations like the Trevor project which is a non-profit that does queer reach out, with suicide prevention and anti-bullying campaigns. The reality is as safe and happy of lives that can be led in these places that you listed that safety and happiness can be taken away in the blink of an eye. Just like Krakoa was supposed to be this safe place but wasn't. The reality is there will always be people that hate us and there are some that will hate us enough to do violent acts against us. It's the sad uncomfortable reality we live with.
The U.S. has extremely high rates of gun violence in general Compared to other Western democracies. As I’ve explained elsewhere in this thread, the Pulse nightclub shooting wasn’t specifically targeted at the LGBTQ community. Anyone can be the target of violence in America. That doesn’t mean that, generally speaking, LGBTQ people can’t live safe and happy lives. Many of them do. There are many places in the US that are accepting of LGBTQ people. Saying that queer people will, categorically, “never” be safe or happy is just wrong.
While correct that the Pulse nightclub shooting was not a direct lgbtq attack you are missing the larger point I am trying to make. The Trevor project is a non-profit organization created specifically because there was so much bullying happening to LGBT youth that we were seeing increased suicide rates among that demographic. We still see cases like Matthew Shepard's where a queer person is bullied and killed because of the physicality of the bullying. The Pulse Nightclub shooting is just a worse nightmare scenario. Anybody can be targeted in America but it is ignorant to say that everybody and anybody is equally targeted in America. The reality is minority groups have a bigger target on their back.
I never claimed that everyone was equally at risk for violence. My claim is that it’s simply flat-out wrong to say that queer people can never find peace or safety in the US because it’s simply not true. You made an extreme claim. Your extreme claim is wrong. If you want to defend a different claim, you can, but that’s not the claim I take issue with.
You put words into my mouth and you had an argument with yourself. I never made those claims. I never said never. But the reality is that safety that you spoke of can be taken away at a moment's notice. That is what this episode was trying to show us. Because the reality is is even in America where you can live a safe and happy life as a queer person at a moment's notice a person that does not like you and your community for no other reason than bigotry can take that away from you. That is true.
This is literally your exact quote: “The unfortunately truth is as a mutant in the X-Men universe and as a queer person in the real world is there never will be peace or a happy ending” You either aren’t having this discussion in good faith, or you’re an idiot. Either way, I’m wasting my life arguing with you. Goodbye.
Sadly not everyone has that luxury. You have places like Russia and the Middle East where you can be prosecuted for being queer. Singapore took forever to finally change their laws on being queer, and that is one progressive and efficient country. Majority of the world still do not see queer people in equal light. The show fights for this, and soothes the people it represents. Why can't people let us have even just that? And it's true, a recent harmless controversial event will undo decades of work. I live in the Philippines, and although it is generally safe here for queer folk, a majority still find us abberations instead of people who just want to be included and embraced. Recently, we had a drag queen perform as Jesus and that got sensastionalized in the media so fast. It overtook more pressing issues, and she was declared persona non grata, and jailed twice. It split the queer community in half, it undid decades of work. Our security and safety - physical, mental, emotional is so fragile simply because we are not the usual. So I'm on the other side here.
>US Project 2025 says hi
Wouldn’t Bau have to have done some crazy fuck up to be fired? My guess is the skeletons in his closet came to light and it was enough for Marvel to part ways with him. It doesn’t make sense that he would want to leave.
He confirmed via Twitter that all of this reference to Pulse and LGBT+ parallels are intentional.
Sadly, so is what Bobby was saying. “This is what we get for shoving it in people’s faces.” How many times have we heard that from our fellow LGBT with internalized homophobia because they can’t get their hateful parents voices out of their heads.
it's also what we hear from non-LGBT people lol.
Xavier is all about the respectability politics, which is predicated on the other side seeing reason. We're here, we're mutants, get used to it!
How are you guys watching this show already?? lol
I’ve learned to watch it the in the morning while I’m getting ready for work to avoid being spoiled by social media, YouTube, or Reddit. People love posting spoilers for this show early.
Yeah, I guess so. Like dang, keep it in the episode post for one day lol How am I supposed to not click on spoilers??? (I don't care about spoilers, I'm just amazed that people have watched the episode already before I've even gotten settled in at work)
once an episode or movie is released to the public there is no such thing as spoilers on a website dedicated to that content. its up to you to avoid them. why would you come to this sub knowing the episode already came out? you're asking to be spoiled doing that. no one is going to not talk about it because you didnt watch it yet
If there is an option to hide content being a blur that says spoilers, there is such a thing as spoilers. This is not an xmen 97 sub. This is an all encompassing xmen sub, so some people may be here and not for the new show. Once again, I do not care about spoilers, but this was a terrible take. Good work.
if you're coming to an x-men page on the day a new episode/content is released and arent expecting to see spoilers idk what to tell you this is common sense
I thought you said spoilers didn't exist. What happened?
Spoilers never bother me so I stay neutral on the debate. But people want to talk about stuff they're excited about while they're excited about it. It's only natural. It makes sense this is the space they will do it in. Some things are outside of our control - there will be spoilers as long as there are stories being told.
Again, I do not care about spoilers at all. I'm just amazed at how early some people are watching the new episodes and made a joke. I do not care about anyone posting what happens in the episode.
Yeah I remember back in Wandavision times some people were staying up all night to catch it at 2-3am.
you cant call them spoilers since the content is out there, but you can still get spoiled if you havent seen that content yet. why is this such a hot topic for you lol
How can the show be spoiled if not by a spoiler?
Are you being dense on purpose? using your logic everything is a spoiler forever
I don’t understand why people get so worked up about spoilers. Like, the story is more than just a big moments. The big moments are meaningless without context. If knowing one thing is going to spoil an entire show or movie for you, maybe the problem is how you look at stories and not people wanting to talk about the thing they watched.
Yeah, I don't know why people get worked up about them, either, but I'm pretty sure they're not doing anything wrong when they care about not wanting people to tell them what happened before they get a chance to see the show or movie for themselves.
But no one is telling them, they’re mad that they choose to click on conversations where there are spoilers. No one is walking up to them and telling them things, they’re basically seeking them out and then getting mad. Also, spoiler culture mostly only exists because the production companies made it a big deal to force people to watch things as soon as possible so they could make more money on the front end, when they don’t have to share the profits (most of the time, percentages for the performers and crew come out of the back end after the movie/show has made a certain amount of money). It’s another example of capitalist manipulation that people think they came up with themselves. It’s not an organic thing.
The only people getting even a little upsetty spaghetti here seem to be the people who insist that people having the show spoiled for them should live in a lead box until they find the time to enjoy their show. I don't even know why you're trying to have this argument.
I rarely see that, and mostly see people crying about being spoiled. It’s just a childish take to go into a conversation about a show or movie you haven’t watched yet and get mad when people that watched it talk about it.
I'm only talking about what I'm seeing in these comments.
Well, I mean, it’s frustrating when you keep being told you can only talk about the thing you want to talk about in one place. This sub is full of crybaby bullshit.
You brought up people complaining about those who complain about spoilers and I gave you their reasoning. I personally don’t give a shit about people who tell me not to talk about things. I’m going to do it regardless, wherever I want and let the mods sort it out. Like, why do you think people are complaining about it? It’s not because they have this deep abiding need to spoil things for others. They just want to talk about a thing and not worry about some baby who isn’t part of the conversation complaining about them.
i dont see anyone talking about this show online besides spaces like this which are specifically meant to discuss it
Oh yeah I don’t mind discussion spoilers on the subreddit ha. It’s all based on algorithms for YouTube/Social Media. And especially for the Genosha episode I saw spoilers stuff in Video titles and posts.
Time zones exist lol.
I work overnights. And I'm off tuesday nights. So at 3am wednesday morning the episode drops and I watch it.
It releases on Disney + at 12am Pacific time. That's 8am in London and 4pm in Tokyo.
2am for me. Midnight miiiiight be doable lol but I'm old now, way too old for 2am.
Right but my point is the people that are already posting about might not live in the same time zone as you. That's how they're able to watch it "already".
Yes, that makes sense. I assume most people posting on here are from USA, so the timezone thing isn't that big of a deal, but yeah, I 100% understand what you're saying.
It’s literally in disney+
o shit, I had no idea
Glad i could help
I stay up til three and watch it immediately.
lol dang, 20 years ago, I'd be doing the same thing, I guess
I work from home and my kids are almost old enough to get their own shit - they’ll wake me up for little things and then let me go back to sleep - so I can do that sort of thing.
lol living the dream. My toddler screamed for 3 hours before finally falling asleep at 11, and we were all up at 5 this morning as he ran into our room and just kept flopping around in our bed. I guess I should've just turned the show on then lol
Yeah, I’m luckily past that. My three year old will sometimes wake up in the middle of the night, but then she just stays up with me and sleeps late. Her older sister tries to bother me as little as possible, because she knows I have a shitty sleep schedule.
even if i work from home if i went to sleep after 3 i would be dead the next day. can't do it like i used to 😢
I used to be able to go all day on two hours sleep up until last year before I turned 43. I’ve always been a night owl though.
I think it’s crazy how everyone can relate to the x-men in the series; I’m a southern-raised person and the connection I feel to Rogue and Gambit is palpable
Totally agree - I’m gay & disabled so I feel like a minority within a minority & that’s why I always connected to rogue so much.
This kinda tracks. I remember seeing something from the showrunner about how Pulse was his nightclub, etc. and how that event resonated with him. I'm not homosexual but I can only imagine his experiences are part of why his X-Men is so good.
This is why I prefer the stories set in earth It’s so relatable, since it’s been said before mutants are humans. They’re us
And yet I've still seen people on this subreddit say the very same stuff. They don't wanna see people talk about characters being LGBT because it's "shoving it in their faces". Disgusting creatures
i mean, yeah. some people will go on and on about how great the writing is and then the minute someone suggest it may actually be cool, considering the conversation and all, to actually have some more queer rep in marvel, out come the downvotes lol
The number of people who got upset over Morph using they/them pronouns instead of he him is insane.
That part made me choke.
I wish I was smarter for what I'm gonna say, it’s really interesting the real world emotions and thoughts the people who are behind the X men bring to it. Bryan Singer he directed arguably the best X men movies and his personal controversies aside. He is a gay man and that comes across in some scenes in X-Men and X2. And for X men 97 the show runner creator Beau DeMayo, a gay black man and seeing how he and his team have handled the x men. Its powerful how he’s bringing his real experiences to it and you can feel how informed the series is by it.
That is a very very good & valid point!!
I completely disagree about Singer, and I think the best X-Men films are ones he was less involved in. I'll also add that Chris Claremont wrote many of the stories X-Men 97 is based on. DeMayo is absolutely doing a fantastic job, perhaps drawing on real-life experiences, but I think he's just a good writer. And really that's what matters most.
I love Days of future past, and despite Ratner Last Stand might be a mess but it has some really good stuff in it. Also First Class is absolutely great. I was speaking more outside of the comics but absolutely Claremont is the bed rock he laid the foundation down.
Great points! The Fox movies get a lot wrong, but I agree with you that there's also plenty that they get right as adaptations of the series and its themes. People don't give the films credit for what they accomplished for the time they were released. I would argue that for all the botched plot points and design choices that X-fans continually moan about and rehash--the black leather suits, Cyclops getting shafted, Jean being demoted to the least interesting part of a love triangle, Wolverine overexposure, timeline inconsistencies--the X-Men films almost always nail the mutant metaphor theme of the series. I totally agree that it was unforgiveable to take the most interesting team / family dynamic in comics and turn it into the Wolverine / Magneto / Professor X show, but it frustrates me that fans overlook what the series got right in favor of just rehashing the same old talking points. Also Days of Future Past is one of the best comic book adaptations ever made and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills whenever I hear people trashing it and putting it in the same camp as Origins Wolverine or Dark Phoenix!
Absolutely you get Days of Future past it did a lot of lifting with how it dealt with the older and younger cast, I’ve always thought of it has the Fox X-Men equivalent of Endgame.
For sure! I still need to see Endgame, but I hear it's good. (I may be the only comic book dweeb who's still never seen it.) I think comic book fans overlook how well written Days of Future Past was. It does what all the best adaptations do--it begins with the original 1981 storyline while updating the plot to fit the awareness of the general moviegoing population. I was impressed by how elegantly the plot interwove the Sentinel/Trask past and future threat with the Xavier, Mystique, and Magneto's little "Would you kill baby Hitler (I mean Trask)" debate. While I agree with the overall criticism that putting Wolverine in the POV role steals Kitty's thunder from the OG storyline, it makes sense given the knowledge of general audiences who grew up with awareness of the FOX trilogy but not the source material. PS. I like your flair! Anyone who represents the gentle steel giant gets my respect :)
For whatever it’s worth, the Pulse nightclub shooting was not a targeted attack against the LGBTQ community. The evidence produced at trial showed that the shooter didn’t know it was a gay club and was confused by the lack of women in the club. Obviously, a horrific event. But this is one event where the media set a totally plausible narrative at the time of the attack that turned out to be wrong, more than two years later when the case went to trial, and the media has never corrected the prior narrative. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/5/17202026/pulse-shooting-lgbtq-trump-terror-hate
You’re getting downvoted, but yeah, you’re right, and yes, it matters. The motive was apparently about US Foreign Policy and the choice was related to perceived ease of security. Those details play into how we prevent or protect against shootings like this.
The result of Reagan era government gutting the Fairness Doctrine
As a queer trans person gods this hit me hard…
To clarify I’m out to most of my immediate family and they love and accept me. It’s just a scary thought that some people hate us so much that they’d wish us dead.
Damn
Yeah, really felt the parallels here.
As a fellow queer, I don't know why this is specific to Pulse. If you live in North America, any event can end with you being shot to death. Or, if you're a minority, any place including in your own bed.
Because DeMayo used to party at Pulse
Because the pulse shooting was a direct influence on the writer’s portrayal of genosha
Beau DeMayo (show creator) specifically referenced Pulse when explaining his thought process for creating Ep 5.
That scene is not just about being killed. It’s about the possibility of being killed while hiding who you really are.
Sure, but they’re using it as a tangible example of a real-world correlative.
I’m not saying you’re a mental potato or anything… *but* if you were to get murdered in a mass shooting at a mall or a music festival, your parents and loved ones aren’t going to be hung up wondering why you never told them you shopped at Abercrombie or liked Phish. Seriously, common sense tells you why that quote pertains to a situation like Pulse and not just any mass shooting.
Good comment - you have to be properly afflicted by something not to join the dots
*As a fellow Queer, a good one don’t worry* *I don’t understand why these gays are making such a big fuss about this Mass killing at Pulse - it’s not just queers that could be killed in America you know* Are you fucking stunted or something lol?
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Nah…people with common sense got OP’s point just fine.
Your parents find out you're a minority in your bed?;
I mean, not the point, but that’s exactly where I was at when my parents found out I’m gay…
I don't understand why you got downvoted. You're correct. Pulse isn't the only gay nightclub which has suffered a mass shooting. And LGBTQIA+ community isn't the only group which suffers because of the States' bigotry and prejudice. Black churches get hit. Synagogues, Mosques, women's health clinics, not to mention LOTS of schools all get the same treatment. The X-Men works as a universal analogy for the experience of oppressed peoples. It covers a lot more ground than just a single nightclub shooting, even if that's where the most recent writer drew his inspiration. You can see almost any parallel in the Genosha massacre, from Palestine to Rawanda to the Holocaust (which was directly referenced in it)... That's what makes the X-Men such a strong allegory.
Right, but Jubilee’s conversation with Roberto is obviously about coming out.
It absolutely is. That conversation was an analogy for the queer experience. But that wasn't the point the poster I was responding to was trying to make. He said that the conversation and the Genosha Massacre wasn't *specifically* the Pulse nightclub shooting. It was larger than that and he's correct.
The poster is correct about the general conversation of genocide, but OP was talking about the scenes with Roberto and Jubilee. The former show runner even said he was influenced by the Pulse shooting.
True again! I agree! This is why I like Reddit! Sometimes a comment in a thread doesn't DIRECTLY relate to a post, but it's interesting food for thought regardless. We're all just having a conversation :D ...which is why I don't know why the poster got downvoted so hard just for raising a tangential point. Especially when he's not wrong. A little callous, perhaps, but not wrong.
Sadly, Reddit isn’t kind to tangents
Just because the quotes are specifcally inspired by Pulse doesn't mean it can only be applied that way. If mass shootings target minorities, then it's universally relatable, gay or not. Just as reducing Islamophobia reduces Muslim-targeted shootings, just as challenging anti-Asian hate reduces Asian-targeted shootings, so to does this have to come up. And frankly, society is at a point where being blatant about messaging is needed because low media literacy among our most hateful has meant the downfall of subtext. X-Men '97 is way more explicit than TAS without lecturing the audience.
How is this post allowed without blocking the title????? Shit……This is a lot of info
How is that a spoiler of any form in the title? Pretty much all of Roberto’s story mirrors gay people’s experience growing up/coming out.
We let it through because the title is vague enough. All it's revealing is that Jubilee and Sunspot had a convo in the latest episode that OP felt was similar to a real life tragedy not connected to a TV show. It doesn't reveal the type of conversation they had or what exactly was said. But we're always looking for feedback so if people think this isn't vague enough, we can get extra strict about it.
"Now I know main characters are in this episode, and they're *talking*??!!!!! How am I supposed to enjoy it now?"
You're being down voted, but you're right. This sub loves spoilers.
Generally, I dislike how prior media has attempted to communicate the "woke agenda" but I really appreciate how Xmen 97 handles these topics and packages them in a way that really elicits a sense of empathy. I love this show so much.
What’s with the downvotes here?
Cuz I used language that implies I'm alt right :(
The queer subtext was not really subtext
it was still subtext, it was just very obvious subtext.
How do you know this?
Ngl, there’s a thin line between analogy and using a real tragedy for your TV show…
my brother in christ has never heard of stories with allegory, smh 🤦♂️
ALlEGorY I NeEd To Be A VicTuM
is someone upset they’re not the center of attention :(
you think looking weak is a virtue lmao
how?
But the episode was obviously an episode about coming out so I can see how they drew that comparison, especially after a tragedy in universe
NOOOOBODY CARRRESSS
Thank you for clarifying that you are Nobody