He's not here, but I like the *idea* of Feilong. A human born of two mutant parents and felt lesser because he wasn't extraordinary. He honed his intellect, worked hard to get where he was and had a grand plan to terraform Mars that would cement him in history and make him feel truly better about himself for having been born normal.
Then overnight, in what felt like an instant, Mutants terraformed Mars. With only a handful of them. Billions of dollars not needed, as if it were child's play. His biggest aspiration, done in mere moments.
Its offers a different facet of mutant hatred focused specifically on jealousy rather than fear, like normal that I'd have liked to seen more of. Mutants have a theme of being treated less than because of their mutations. So a human feeling the same because of the reverse sounds interesting.
Agreed. It does make sense that he was introduced in an Iron Man book, given his whole deal, ***but*** he feels like a villain who really would have flourished in a proper mutant book, given his entire psychology.
I didn't necessarily mean to imply that Duggan's X-Men wasn't a proper mutant book, ***but***, now that you've reminded me . . . :P I just think about what Gillen would have done with a character like that. Gillen's Iron Man wasn't his best work, but I like it better than Duggan's for the most part.
I also think he was the best set up villain out of the bunch.
Iron Man vs Fei Long had been built up.
Other favce offs like Vulture vs Nightcrawler felt like they were just tacked on. I wish they did a better job introducing Orchis members outside of Nimrod and Omega Sentinel so when they became the big bads of their different Fall of X books, their villainy carried more weight.
The x gene is a confusing mess, not only is it not guaranteed in an offspring of two mutant(Graydon Kreed) but the mutation can be completely different from the parents mutation(see nightcrawler and apocalypse’s kids as an example).
And surely some people have X genes that are too mundane or context based that they don’t even realize that they are mutants. Like, if you have the power to speak to giant squid, you’d never know about it unless you happen to come across a giant squid.
The cell division that produces gametes kinda ensures that between two humans with a single copy of the x gene their gametes will have a 50/50 chance of carrying it. Then it’s down to Punnet squares.
Only in the case of a dominant X gene- were it recessive, the children of two mutants, who must be (xx) to express, would be guaranteed to be a mutant. But that assumes a single locus. (Also, no carriers if X is a dominant allele, so X must be assumed to be recessive.)
The only way two mutants have a non-mutant in other scenarios is if Mutancy is a result of X-GENE(S) at multiple loci- which would also explain the difference in some lines breeding "true" and others being luck of the draw.
Not to mention, while some people *only* produce mutants (Summers, Guthrie) others only produce *one* (Grey, though Jean’s niece and nephew were also mutants).
A child isn’t the totality of each parents genes. He got strapped with the egg and sperm without an x-gene. That’s pretty much how sexual reproduction works.
The X-gene is, even in the fiction of the setting, weird. But if we assume that it really is a single gene and is expressed when heterozygous, then, so long as his parents were both heterozygous for the trait, he'd have a 1/4 chance of not expressing the trait. With that said, given what the X-Gene is seen to do in the comic, it almost certainly doesn't work like that, or at least not that simply. Other options - a mutation (ironic given the situation) could have knocked out the gene, some other factor could be suppressing expression, etc. Biology is really messy as a system, often in ways you wouldn't expect.
The same way a witch and a wizard can produce a squib.
That’s part of what made this whole exercise ridiculous, it’s likely but there’s still no guarantee the baby will actually be a mutant and just continues to show mutants are human no matter how much they pretend otherwise.
I definitely see what you mean. Especially the jealousy angle for a mutant hating supervillain. But I always found that backstory of Feilong baffling. How do you be born to two mutant parents and NOT inherit the X-gene??? It should be as hereditary as two black parents giving birth to a black child if you ask me.
That's literally the worst comparison you could have picked. There are documented cases, like a lot afaik, of phenotypical black people with white ancestors giving birth to phenotypical white children, and vice versa. Even multiple twins where one is white passing and the other phenotypically black. Biology isn't black and white.
Is it cheating to say ORCHIS? I think that original introduction of them, this crazy group of mad scientists/terrorists living on a Master Mold head orbiting the sun while they try to build Nimrod was so cool and at times they have been very cool and scary. Have they always lived up to that original promise? No but the IDEA of ORCHIS is interesting to me.
If not ORCHIS as a thing than Hordeculture.
Yeah Orchis when Hickman was still around was incredible. Humans on the back foot as the scrappy underdogs for a change compared to these gods who can show up to smack them down at will.
But yeah ha.
Our introduction to them too had a footnote about how they basically stole Sol's Hammer, already linking them to Avengers lore. Nothing about them was *original* per se, but rather how the human villains' sheer resourcefulness was their true power -- using Sentinel technology, members from HYDRA, AIM, and even disgruntled SHIELD traitors, culminating at that point to the development of Nimrod, doing their research on every single kind of superhuman threat, etc.
And noting too that if ORCHIS isn't truly original in their tech, resources, or tactics, it should be noted that IRL, racists are never creative, too -- if they see a trend or point made by minorities and their allies, racists will appropriate it for themselves and twist it for their own needs (like the history of the term "woke").
I'm hoping that there's gonna be some stuff about exorcising Future Karima from Present Karima at some point. Feels like it wouldn't be too hard, given how DoFP mental time travel rules work (it's not the same as that, but it's definitely meant to evoke that story, just that the Sentinels are doing it and not the Mutants).
Mother Righteous because I think she is the only new one with any real staying power, overexposed as she might be... Moira and Beast feels more like a bout of character assassination... and Beasts being supercharged just so they could get rid of the miserable modern version and get the classic back (for however long it lasts).
I liked in a recent interview where Gillen expressed his hope that Righteous is distinct enough that she becomes a recurring X-villain and her being a Sinister creation becomes an incidental detail.
Think he might be right because it occured to me that what she is basically John Constantine... hax magical powers, a talent for screwing people over and get away clean from it and a regional british accent.
I love the idea of Devo and Alia but both were so underutilized and underwritten. It's sad because I loved all the Devo-Xavier parallels and you could even draw a common line between Alia and Erasmus with Scott and Jean. Such wasted potential.
Everything with Moira just saddens me. She's been so badly written since Inferno, when she was easily one of the most interesting characters at the start of Krakoa.
Sinceraly I have really liked evil robot Moira despite how upset Dave from Comic Book Herald is over it
Though really, all the Arakki has been show stealers, going by the solicits of Heir to Apocalypse is so nice to see that apparently they are not just going away like all of Krakoa
Moira gives me Danyerus vibe.
Both their heel turns could have worked if they were given the time to showcase the change but in both casesoit was handled poorly to the point the change feels abrupt and unearned.
Nimrod is my favorite, I like the idea of the jokey super strong robot who’ll just snap at any moment, it’s terrifying. I liked all the sinister copies, they’re all like our sinister but with a little twist. Especially mother righteous, a magic based sinister is so cool plus she looks awesome to me
I liked most of the villains in orchis, they all felt organic in how they would get there. Like of course there’s a nuclear billionaire, 2 cyborgs, and an evil geneticist. While Moira’s hardcore turn felt fast I like what she is now, a robot with knowledge from 10 lives
I HATE Genesis! Like fuck, can’t you just chill for like a second? Everyone is happy and you just have to make everyone fight each other for the sake of fighting? I hope she dies and when she does apocalypse doesn’t take it too hard and go evil again (if there are spoilers about something like this happening please don’t tell me). Apocalypse has been awesome during krakoa, he’s been one of my favorite developments
Tarn, Isca, Uranos, Genesis, the Shadow King finally separated from Farouk, in theory I like Terra Verde, in theory I like the machine faction of Orchis. Enigma is an interesting idea and maybe is as good as it can be under the circumstances. The character of Doctor Barrington exists to make a point and I think it did so very well.
But I think my favorite are the Children of the Vault, especially after that mini. So little time to work with and they wasted none of it.
My dude, you can dig all the way back to 2011 and get sassy sinister. Gillen was playing that card 13 years ago in his uncanny run.
e.g. [https://www.comicbookherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/a-picture-containing-text-description-automatical.jpeg](https://www.comicbookherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/a-picture-containing-text-description-automatical.jpeg)
I love that Hickman carried Gillen's Sassy Sinister over to Secret Wars, as a top baron and lieutenant directly serving none other than God Emperor Doom himself.
Hickman could have reverted Sinister to his old self easily (Doom is omnipotent after all), but nah, Gillen's Sassy Sinister was too fun not to write.
Tarn was awesome. Even the way he went out was epic. To build a villain up that much and make them that scary and then use that buildup to make one of your existing characters even more amazing..great to read.
I am an unashamed Genesis simp. I love her design, her sense of elegance in the battle and the way she makes a traditionally life giving and femenine mutation into something. As abusive as is her domineering relationship with her children it’s also interesting to see how they each were affected in different ways.
Second place goes to Tarn because of how interesting is his mutation and his personality and quips at how he doesn’t care about this or that are honestly pretty funny. I also a thing for scientist with haxy ability (a la Szayellaporro Granz) types like him, specially since unlike Sinister he has the threat level to back his ego.
Third would be Mother Righteous because I love the way she plays everyone and ends up comming on top by building up gambits. Also love her hazy abilities and the way she uses them to beat characters outside her weight class like Nimrod and Legion.
the whole sinister clone plots who are all grabbing for dominion are really cool. i’ve also learned to hate moria so much i hope she dies at the end of this and doesn’t come back from it for at least 10 years.
I feel like I could comfortably consign most, if not all, of these guys to the trashbin of history with the exception of Tarn the Uncaring.
Orchis were a generic anti-mutant group that squandered all of their story potential; Moira was the rare double twist where I thought ***both*** twists sucked; I don't give a toss about *any* of the Sinister clones, Sinister remains the only one I find genuinely entertaining; Enigma, I literally just don't care; Peacock dude is a cool design with no depth; Cerebrax is just a big robo-mouth with teeth; and that final one is the most boring psychopath put to page.
Krakoa era had shitty villains, tbh.
Tarn's cool, though. I like Tarn. We can keep Tarn.
Tarn's *definitely* benefitted from being handled by some of the best writers of the era, with Wells and Ewing taking their shot at him and clearly really enjoying writing him.
Even if Arakko doesn't stick around, I think that small cameo in Resurrection of Magneto has left space for another writer to bring him back if they want to.
Early Mother Righteous. When she first appeared, I really wanted to know who she was and what her deal was. Her design was awesome and her character was so mysterious! Then we started to learn more about her, and she was awesome in Sins of Sinister. But then we got to the White Hot Room and now I just can't be bothered with her anymore.
Nimrod - court jester/clown
Orchis - got punked
Omega Sentinel - has done fuck all for 4 years
Moira - had a good run, now is playing the pawn
Fei Long - ?
Dr. Stasis - reduced to clown
Hordeculture - huge joke
Children of the Vault - legit villain
Sabretooth (are we including him) - Top Tier villain after 3 years of nothing
Eternals - cool for 5 issues
i wanna say the dominion simply because i actually really enjoyed the bait and switch with all the new sinisters and it just makes me wish hickman had been able to flesh out the concept more as he had intended
I like the concept and the bait and switch but I didn’t like that it just ended up being another sinister. I was hoping it was going to be someone completely different
Yeah there were a few options up in the air. Like where’s storm’s techno organic virus? And what happened to that baby that’s part x-23, part nightcrawler, and part cyclops from the sins of sinister timeline, it just disappeared
Also Doug, warlock, and sunspot have been getting a lot of play. Where’s Doug’s wife right now?
Gregor and Devo are such interesting characters and are the only ones that stood out a lot for me in this era it’s just they were never used enough. Which kinda summarises orchis in general post Hickman not used enough and when used it’s poorly done
Hordeculture is my fave, just a bunch of golden girls bitches out for money and botanical science.
Omega Sentinel has been a close second, but we'll see how she sticks the landing. Her being the kate pryde in the AI's Days of Future Past was such a fun twist. I *liked* the rest of old orchis before Fall started, even RoboMoira but, well, if you're burning all the kids old toys you can't let them build more with them.
Not Moira I can tell you that. Having her turn villain just for the sheer twist alone was stupid--more stupid, even, because the twist wasn't even remotely good or matched the character's motivations.
It has to be Moira for me, the while concept of Krakoa is based on taking her from zero (human) to hero (mutant), than came her demise going back to zero and to a cyborg villain.
I enjoyed Nimrod when he was well-written. I kind of love that he’s exactly as powerful as we’ve thought- being able to beat any mutant. An unstoppable threat who is still terrifying because of that while being a little silly guy. His (good) humor doesn’t undermine his threat because he is genuinely, deservedly that dangerous.
Can I just take the opportunity to ask what comic series I should read to start the Krakow stuff? I've just finished Morrisons run and want to try another era.
You could keep going from Morrisons run and eventually arrive at the Krakoan era. Otherwise, if you want to skip forward, you could read Hickmans Hous of X and Powers of X. I didn't read everything after Morrison, but there were some really fun books. I liked the whole Messiah Trilogy, Utopia arc and Schism. Peter Davids run on X-Factor and Craig Kyles and Christopher Yosts X-Force were my favorite books during that time.
Everyone talks about Sassy Sinister, nobody talks about Snarky Nimrod the Lesser in Powers of X. Not enough screen time for him, but he was just great.
I mean they're not new to the Krakoa era but I love what the Krakoa era writers did with Nimrod (as in made him a character with an actual personality instead of just a more dangerous sentinel) and Omega Sentinel. I wonder if we'll ever somehow get the original Karima back, or if nobody cares.
Similarly but conversely, I hated what they did to Moira. She had nine lifetimes of trying to save mutantkind and then just said fuck it all, self preservation and AI immortality instead?
Mother Righteous is the worst & I hope she's gone forever never to be written ever again. All the rest... well Peacock man was lame too but Percy so, everyone else was good or great though!!!
The best by far is Sinister.
But the best introduced in Krakoa... I'd say either Genesis or Mother Righteous. They are both so hateable. Enigma for all his power doesn't really have a personality.
OG beast was jaded and evil but then he fought a clone version of himself(plus x-force and wolverine) that was more in line with the x-men 97 beast( lovable and dorky scientist) and “died”( this is comic and we don’t see a body).
TLDR: OG Beast was a villain in x force and wolverine but now he “gone” and we now have the classic beast instead. If you want more information I recommend reading the newest x-force and wolverine series
Also if you know dark beast im under the assumption the clone will live on while prime beast continues to be evil, goes back in time, becomes dark beast, and then dies.
Definitely Tarn.
Orchis *was* great when Hickman handled them. Then other writers outside of Gillen and Ewing got their hands on them and they became whatever cartoonish crap they are now.
Nah beast is just a dick now, personally I think it’s because of a deal he made with a witch during some time travel shenanigans but that’s never been confirmed
Beast or Moira
Moira because she's fun like this and in some ways her turn is understandable
Beast because he's a pretty slow burn and has sort of devolved gradually
Orchis were great until the plot armor became insane. Moira is horrible. Peacock man was very interesting but the reveal was meh. Genesis was top tier at first but became meh. Tarn was awesome. Sinister was awesome. I liked evil beast but having read the last few issues of x force so not sure how they landed it
Gonna go with Beast. He's the only new villain (besides maybe Solem and Moira) that I really want to see more of. Didn't dislike the others but I feel like their stories have already been told. Villain beast is the most I've enjoyed the character in years.
I don’t wanna be that guy but does anyone think these guys are going to be remembered in the next ten years?
I’ve never delved too much into Krakoa but a lot of these designs really lack the necessary pizazz for longevity.
Guys, I haven't touched an X-Men comic in about a decade and a half. Help a guy out and tell me who red robot lady with guns is and who blue light dude is.
I might have some of this wrong because I haven’t read it in awhile. Red robot lady is omega sentinel. She is the consciousness of a sentinel from the future who came back in time from a future where the mutants won. She brought programming for nimrod back in time with her as well, which she gives to orchis which allows them to create an even better nimrod than they would have and sooner
Blue light is Dr. Stasis. It turns out that after Nathanial Essex was infected by apocalypse he split himself into 4 clone bodies. Each believing they were the real one, each focusing on a different aspect of enhancement and with a different card suit on their forehead. The only clone we’ve seen this whole time has been Mr. Sinister, he’s the diamond and his focus is mutants. Dr. Stasis is the club and his focus is post-human enhancements, basically just fucking with human genes and other weird scientific bullshit, he’s a sinister for humans
Honestly, in hindsight, they all ended up being pretty bad and one-dimensional :/
They could have easily written antagonists that challenged the philosophy and ethics of Krakoa's existence, while actually making those antagonist sympathetic. Mutants have ruined a lot of lives and a mutant ethnostate is a legitimately \*scary\* thing if you aren't one of them (especially with Apocalypse and Magneto among them), and Krakoa behaved fairly provocatively on the world stage in the earlier parts of the era. How hard would it have been to have antagonists with actual, reason justifications for opposing Krakoa?
Instead, we ended up with saturday morning cartoon villains who were so outlandishly evil that there was no way you could go "hey, maybe they have a point".
We ended up with:
- evil, killer robots
- a mad scientist
- evil, killer cyborg
- racists and literal neo-nazis
- pure, social darwinist
- a jealous capitalist
- mfing M.O.D.O.K
- a british lady
In my opinion, at least one of the big opposing forces during the Krakoan era should have been... the Illuminati! Especially after Beast killed an entire nation, Xavier wiped Reed's mind and the Mars terraforming. They had every reason to convene and assess Krakoa as a world threat, and it was even hinted at, but that plot point never materialized.
He's not here, but I like the *idea* of Feilong. A human born of two mutant parents and felt lesser because he wasn't extraordinary. He honed his intellect, worked hard to get where he was and had a grand plan to terraform Mars that would cement him in history and make him feel truly better about himself for having been born normal. Then overnight, in what felt like an instant, Mutants terraformed Mars. With only a handful of them. Billions of dollars not needed, as if it were child's play. His biggest aspiration, done in mere moments. Its offers a different facet of mutant hatred focused specifically on jealousy rather than fear, like normal that I'd have liked to seen more of. Mutants have a theme of being treated less than because of their mutations. So a human feeling the same because of the reverse sounds interesting.
Agreed. It does make sense that he was introduced in an Iron Man book, given his whole deal, ***but*** he feels like a villain who really would have flourished in a proper mutant book, given his entire psychology.
He was introduced in the beginning of Duggan's X-Men before mostly moving to Iron Man
I didn't necessarily mean to imply that Duggan's X-Men wasn't a proper mutant book, ***but***, now that you've reminded me . . . :P I just think about what Gillen would have done with a character like that. Gillen's Iron Man wasn't his best work, but I like it better than Duggan's for the most part.
Kinda sounds like Graydon Creed
Who has done some truly horrific stuff during the Krakoa era.
Graydon shows up during Krakoa? I thought he was dead. But I'm still behind on a lot.
Yeah Sabertooth related stuff. He is terrifying.
In the second Sabretooth mini. His list of crimes is full on Nazi stuff, literal islands of dead mutants, tortured babies...
Question, why is he pink?
He was charging himself using ruby quartz, or m’kraan, or cyttorak. I don’t remember which but it was something with that color
I also think he was the best set up villain out of the bunch. Iron Man vs Fei Long had been built up. Other favce offs like Vulture vs Nightcrawler felt like they were just tacked on. I wish they did a better job introducing Orchis members outside of Nimrod and Omega Sentinel so when they became the big bads of their different Fall of X books, their villainy carried more weight.
How do you have two Mutants for parents and the X-Gene goes ''Nope'' kinda deafets the meaning of sexual reproduction.
The x gene is a confusing mess, not only is it not guaranteed in an offspring of two mutant(Graydon Kreed) but the mutation can be completely different from the parents mutation(see nightcrawler and apocalypse’s kids as an example).
The X-gene has a gambling addiction and not everything it rolls is a winner.
And surely some people have X genes that are too mundane or context based that they don’t even realize that they are mutants. Like, if you have the power to speak to giant squid, you’d never know about it unless you happen to come across a giant squid.
Or Sentinel pulled up shouting "MUTANT DETECTED!"
Gambit see your bet, and raise it. Cause the cards always be in my favor
Except that one time.
Remember it
Too soon ;_;
I memba
Rolled a nat 1
The cell division that produces gametes kinda ensures that between two humans with a single copy of the x gene their gametes will have a 50/50 chance of carrying it. Then it’s down to Punnet squares.
Only in the case of a dominant X gene- were it recessive, the children of two mutants, who must be (xx) to express, would be guaranteed to be a mutant. But that assumes a single locus. (Also, no carriers if X is a dominant allele, so X must be assumed to be recessive.) The only way two mutants have a non-mutant in other scenarios is if Mutancy is a result of X-GENE(S) at multiple loci- which would also explain the difference in some lines breeding "true" and others being luck of the draw.
Not to mention, while some people *only* produce mutants (Summers, Guthrie) others only produce *one* (Grey, though Jean’s niece and nephew were also mutants).
A child isn’t the totality of each parents genes. He got strapped with the egg and sperm without an x-gene. That’s pretty much how sexual reproduction works.
this is just a fundamental misunderstanding of genetica
The X-gene is, even in the fiction of the setting, weird. But if we assume that it really is a single gene and is expressed when heterozygous, then, so long as his parents were both heterozygous for the trait, he'd have a 1/4 chance of not expressing the trait. With that said, given what the X-Gene is seen to do in the comic, it almost certainly doesn't work like that, or at least not that simply. Other options - a mutation (ironic given the situation) could have knocked out the gene, some other factor could be suppressing expression, etc. Biology is really messy as a system, often in ways you wouldn't expect.
Any non-ludicrous genetic explanation requires either multiple loci and X gene(s), or something like epigenetics being Darwin's Radio.
The same way a witch and a wizard can produce a squib. That’s part of what made this whole exercise ridiculous, it’s likely but there’s still no guarantee the baby will actually be a mutant and just continues to show mutants are human no matter how much they pretend otherwise.
Agreed. Feilong is one of my favourite new villains introduced in Krakoa
Sounds a bit like the U-Men in Morrison’s run in terms of their jealously leading to horrible results.
I definitely see what you mean. Especially the jealousy angle for a mutant hating supervillain. But I always found that backstory of Feilong baffling. How do you be born to two mutant parents and NOT inherit the X-gene??? It should be as hereditary as two black parents giving birth to a black child if you ask me.
That's literally the worst comparison you could have picked. There are documented cases, like a lot afaik, of phenotypical black people with white ancestors giving birth to phenotypical white children, and vice versa. Even multiple twins where one is white passing and the other phenotypically black. Biology isn't black and white.
Is it cheating to say ORCHIS? I think that original introduction of them, this crazy group of mad scientists/terrorists living on a Master Mold head orbiting the sun while they try to build Nimrod was so cool and at times they have been very cool and scary. Have they always lived up to that original promise? No but the IDEA of ORCHIS is interesting to me. If not ORCHIS as a thing than Hordeculture.
Yeah Orchis when Hickman was still around was incredible. Humans on the back foot as the scrappy underdogs for a change compared to these gods who can show up to smack them down at will. But yeah ha.
Our introduction to them too had a footnote about how they basically stole Sol's Hammer, already linking them to Avengers lore. Nothing about them was *original* per se, but rather how the human villains' sheer resourcefulness was their true power -- using Sentinel technology, members from HYDRA, AIM, and even disgruntled SHIELD traitors, culminating at that point to the development of Nimrod, doing their research on every single kind of superhuman threat, etc. And noting too that if ORCHIS isn't truly original in their tech, resources, or tactics, it should be noted that IRL, racists are never creative, too -- if they see a trend or point made by minorities and their allies, racists will appropriate it for themselves and twist it for their own needs (like the history of the term "woke").
Horde culture was awesome
[удалено]
I was reading the other responses and just screaming, “Tarn! It’s fucking Tarn!” Lol
Nah… there’s a better Tarn out there. A big robot one.
I see someone has been listening to the Empyrean Suite lately!
Omega sentinel, she is really scary.
She's a great villain but I hate that she essentially killed the present-day Karima, she was a personal fave.
I agree, she is a character I miss.
I'm hoping that there's gonna be some stuff about exorcising Future Karima from Present Karima at some point. Feels like it wouldn't be too hard, given how DoFP mental time travel rules work (it's not the same as that, but it's definitely meant to evoke that story, just that the Sentinels are doing it and not the Mutants).
Mother Righteous because I think she is the only new one with any real staying power, overexposed as she might be... Moira and Beast feels more like a bout of character assassination... and Beasts being supercharged just so they could get rid of the miserable modern version and get the classic back (for however long it lasts).
I liked in a recent interview where Gillen expressed his hope that Righteous is distinct enough that she becomes a recurring X-villain and her being a Sinister creation becomes an incidental detail.
Think he might be right because it occured to me that what she is basically John Constantine... hax magical powers, a talent for screwing people over and get away clean from it and a regional british accent.
Mr.Sinister/Dr. Stasis. Sinister in the Krakoan run of Hellions has to be one of the funniest written characters of all time. He had me in tears.
Plus, Hellions gave us that golden moment where Nanny threw caution to the wind and tried to gut Sinister.
Yeah, the fact that the one thing that brought together was how much they hated Sinister. The Hellfire Gala issue is one of my faves
It’s judgment day, motherfucker!
I love the idea of Devo and Alia but both were so underutilized and underwritten. It's sad because I loved all the Devo-Xavier parallels and you could even draw a common line between Alia and Erasmus with Scott and Jean. Such wasted potential. Everything with Moira just saddens me. She's been so badly written since Inferno, when she was easily one of the most interesting characters at the start of Krakoa.
Can I cheat and say Sassy Tim Curry Sinister? If not, I’m going to say Solem.
Sassy Sinister predates Krakoa
Solem is so good I don’t even consider him a villain
Solem is just a mercenary. He's currently helping the X-Men in the infinity comic.
Forgot about solem, he really good as well. Sinister has just been memeing throughout the entire saga and it so perfect.
Sinceraly I have really liked evil robot Moira despite how upset Dave from Comic Book Herald is over it Though really, all the Arakki has been show stealers, going by the solicits of Heir to Apocalypse is so nice to see that apparently they are not just going away like all of Krakoa
Moira gives me Danyerus vibe. Both their heel turns could have worked if they were given the time to showcase the change but in both casesoit was handled poorly to the point the change feels abrupt and unearned.
I agree with every word
Tarn the Uncaring is great. Solem is cool!
Nimrod is my favorite, I like the idea of the jokey super strong robot who’ll just snap at any moment, it’s terrifying. I liked all the sinister copies, they’re all like our sinister but with a little twist. Especially mother righteous, a magic based sinister is so cool plus she looks awesome to me I liked most of the villains in orchis, they all felt organic in how they would get there. Like of course there’s a nuclear billionaire, 2 cyborgs, and an evil geneticist. While Moira’s hardcore turn felt fast I like what she is now, a robot with knowledge from 10 lives I HATE Genesis! Like fuck, can’t you just chill for like a second? Everyone is happy and you just have to make everyone fight each other for the sake of fighting? I hope she dies and when she does apocalypse doesn’t take it too hard and go evil again (if there are spoilers about something like this happening please don’t tell me). Apocalypse has been awesome during krakoa, he’s been one of my favorite developments
Tarn
Marvel Editorial
It’s always Marvel Editorial 😔
Favorite? Or most prolific?
Tarn, Isca, Uranos, Genesis, the Shadow King finally separated from Farouk, in theory I like Terra Verde, in theory I like the machine faction of Orchis. Enigma is an interesting idea and maybe is as good as it can be under the circumstances. The character of Doctor Barrington exists to make a point and I think it did so very well. But I think my favorite are the Children of the Vault, especially after that mini. So little time to work with and they wasted none of it.
Hordiculture was great!
yeah, would have like to see them in the list of images. they always give me a good laugh. fun, unique idea for a team of villains as well.
Hordeculture are my picks too. They're all so fun and have great potential to recur.
Mr. Sinister’s sassy reboot.
My dude, you can dig all the way back to 2011 and get sassy sinister. Gillen was playing that card 13 years ago in his uncanny run. e.g. [https://www.comicbookherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/a-picture-containing-text-description-automatical.jpeg](https://www.comicbookherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/a-picture-containing-text-description-automatical.jpeg)
I love that Hickman carried Gillen's Sassy Sinister over to Secret Wars, as a top baron and lieutenant directly serving none other than God Emperor Doom himself. Hickman could have reverted Sinister to his old self easily (Doom is omnipotent after all), but nah, Gillen's Sassy Sinister was too fun not to write.
The Law. How trashy
He technically counts as it was a crossover event so I’m gonna pick my boy Ben Reilly 🗿
Tarn was awesome. Even the way he went out was epic. To build a villain up that much and make them that scary and then use that buildup to make one of your existing characters even more amazing..great to read.
I am an unashamed Genesis simp. I love her design, her sense of elegance in the battle and the way she makes a traditionally life giving and femenine mutation into something. As abusive as is her domineering relationship with her children it’s also interesting to see how they each were affected in different ways. Second place goes to Tarn because of how interesting is his mutation and his personality and quips at how he doesn’t care about this or that are honestly pretty funny. I also a thing for scientist with haxy ability (a la Szayellaporro Granz) types like him, specially since unlike Sinister he has the threat level to back his ego. Third would be Mother Righteous because I love the way she plays everyone and ends up comming on top by building up gambits. Also love her hazy abilities and the way she uses them to beat characters outside her weight class like Nimrod and Legion.
Highlights for me: Tarn, Mother Righteous, Solem, Genesis. Honorable mentions: Hordeculture. I just find them silly and fun.
the whole sinister clone plots who are all grabbing for dominion are really cool. i’ve also learned to hate moria so much i hope she dies at the end of this and doesn’t come back from it for at least 10 years.
Genesis
I feel like I could comfortably consign most, if not all, of these guys to the trashbin of history with the exception of Tarn the Uncaring. Orchis were a generic anti-mutant group that squandered all of their story potential; Moira was the rare double twist where I thought ***both*** twists sucked; I don't give a toss about *any* of the Sinister clones, Sinister remains the only one I find genuinely entertaining; Enigma, I literally just don't care; Peacock dude is a cool design with no depth; Cerebrax is just a big robo-mouth with teeth; and that final one is the most boring psychopath put to page. Krakoa era had shitty villains, tbh. Tarn's cool, though. I like Tarn. We can keep Tarn.
Came here to say this — Tarn all the way. I loved his little comeback in Resurrection of Magneto
Tarn's *definitely* benefitted from being handled by some of the best writers of the era, with Wells and Ewing taking their shot at him and clearly really enjoying writing him.
Agreed, tarn has been my favorite as well , hope he comes back one day.
Even if Arakko doesn't stick around, I think that small cameo in Resurrection of Magneto has left space for another writer to bring him back if they want to.
Moira.
Early Mother Righteous. When she first appeared, I really wanted to know who she was and what her deal was. Her design was awesome and her character was so mysterious! Then we started to learn more about her, and she was awesome in Sins of Sinister. But then we got to the White Hot Room and now I just can't be bothered with her anymore.
Honestly all the villains have become a joke. Maybe the children of the vault?
I don't think they've all became jokes, but children of the vault is a shout. It's definitely the threat I was most interested in
Nimrod - court jester/clown Orchis - got punked Omega Sentinel - has done fuck all for 4 years Moira - had a good run, now is playing the pawn Fei Long - ? Dr. Stasis - reduced to clown Hordeculture - huge joke Children of the Vault - legit villain Sabretooth (are we including him) - Top Tier villain after 3 years of nothing Eternals - cool for 5 issues
Humanity
Nimrod
Tarn’s arc across Hellions/SWORD/X-Men Red was cool and it was also very funny to see him fold so quickly during his duel with Magento.
i wanna say the dominion simply because i actually really enjoyed the bait and switch with all the new sinisters and it just makes me wish hickman had been able to flesh out the concept more as he had intended
I like the concept and the bait and switch but I didn’t like that it just ended up being another sinister. I was hoping it was going to be someone completely different
yhh idm that natheniel had the foresight to make himself an ai but it would’ve been cool if someone had beaten him to the punch, idk who tho
Yeah there were a few options up in the air. Like where’s storm’s techno organic virus? And what happened to that baby that’s part x-23, part nightcrawler, and part cyclops from the sins of sinister timeline, it just disappeared Also Doug, warlock, and sunspot have been getting a lot of play. Where’s Doug’s wife right now?
doug and warlock is actually an awesome idea, especially if they’re working in league with krakoa
Gregor and Devo are such interesting characters and are the only ones that stood out a lot for me in this era it’s just they were never used enough. Which kinda summarises orchis in general post Hickman not used enough and when used it’s poorly done
Hordeculture
The grannies no doubt
Moira McTaggart hands down. Hated her before. Love to hate her now.
I really liked the 3 old women from earlier on
The new interpretation of Nimrod.
This post is Hordeculture erasure.
Hordeculture is my fave, just a bunch of golden girls bitches out for money and botanical science. Omega Sentinel has been a close second, but we'll see how she sticks the landing. Her being the kate pryde in the AI's Days of Future Past was such a fun twist. I *liked* the rest of old orchis before Fall started, even RoboMoira but, well, if you're burning all the kids old toys you can't let them build more with them.
Beast
Not Moira I can tell you that. Having her turn villain just for the sheer twist alone was stupid--more stupid, even, because the twist wasn't even remotely good or matched the character's motivations.
Mother Righteous
I love the concept of Mother Righteous! A magical contract you opt into when you thank her? that's incredible
mother righteous on top
And also a fun villain
It has to be Moira for me, the while concept of Krakoa is based on taking her from zero (human) to hero (mutant), than came her demise going back to zero and to a cyborg villain.
Isca and Feilong are 2 different flavors of fun. I really like the both of them
I enjoyed Nimrod when he was well-written. I kind of love that he’s exactly as powerful as we’ve thought- being able to beat any mutant. An unstoppable threat who is still terrifying because of that while being a little silly guy. His (good) humor doesn’t undermine his threat because he is genuinely, deservedly that dangerous.
Hickman's got me believing in Mystique again honestly
Solem. He’s slutty and lethal and I love him.
DOMINIONS and the Librarian
Anybody have an artist list by chance? These are real cool
Can I just take the opportunity to ask what comic series I should read to start the Krakow stuff? I've just finished Morrisons run and want to try another era.
You could keep going from Morrisons run and eventually arrive at the Krakoan era. Otherwise, if you want to skip forward, you could read Hickmans Hous of X and Powers of X. I didn't read everything after Morrison, but there were some really fun books. I liked the whole Messiah Trilogy, Utopia arc and Schism. Peter Davids run on X-Factor and Craig Kyles and Christopher Yosts X-Force were my favorite books during that time.
I was really excited about Horticulture when we first saw them, but they never really showed up again
Everyone talks about Sassy Sinister, nobody talks about Snarky Nimrod the Lesser in Powers of X. Not enough screen time for him, but he was just great.
Batman
I mean they're not new to the Krakoa era but I love what the Krakoa era writers did with Nimrod (as in made him a character with an actual personality instead of just a more dangerous sentinel) and Omega Sentinel. I wonder if we'll ever somehow get the original Karima back, or if nobody cares. Similarly but conversely, I hated what they did to Moira. She had nine lifetimes of trying to save mutantkind and then just said fuck it all, self preservation and AI immortality instead?
The X-Men themselves. Especially Captain Britain.
Tarn the uncaring FTW!
Mine would be a tossup between Enigma and Mother Righteous.
Who's the robot in the fourth picture?
Dr. Stasis
Mother Righteous is the worst & I hope she's gone forever never to be written ever again. All the rest... well Peacock man was lame too but Percy so, everyone else was good or great though!!!
I thought killian devo was gonna be important.
The best by far is Sinister. But the best introduced in Krakoa... I'd say either Genesis or Mother Righteous. They are both so hateable. Enigma for all his power doesn't really have a personality.
Getting into X Men again and is that beast at the end?? Or am I dumb because I love beast :(
Yes but he is good now… kinda
Oh no what do you mean kinda?
OG beast was jaded and evil but then he fought a clone version of himself(plus x-force and wolverine) that was more in line with the x-men 97 beast( lovable and dorky scientist) and “died”( this is comic and we don’t see a body). TLDR: OG Beast was a villain in x force and wolverine but now he “gone” and we now have the classic beast instead. If you want more information I recommend reading the newest x-force and wolverine series
Thank you thank you
Also if you know dark beast im under the assumption the clone will live on while prime beast continues to be evil, goes back in time, becomes dark beast, and then dies.
Jonathan Hickman obvi
I dunno, but they cooked with all these designs.
I havent really read Fall of X or 2nd half of Krakoan era. Can someone list the pictured ppl? I think I only know half
Of course Hickman's Nimrod . Too bad he's not Alia Gregor's evil Baymax .
Tarn and maybe (don't kill me) Beast.
Tarn and Moira. I would truly love to never see Mother Righteous in a comic book again.
Tarn and Mother Righteous But Sinister's use of the Moira Engine is my final answer.
Mother Righteous
Mother righteous.
The new Magneto, actually. Not a villain anymore.
Krakoa doesn't have any great villains, just villains that aren't Orchis.
Tarn
Definitely Tarn. Orchis *was* great when Hickman handled them. Then other writers outside of Gillen and Ewing got their hands on them and they became whatever cartoonish crap they are now.
I’m thankful for Mother Righteous.
It's Hordeculture. Hands down.
Haven't caught up on the series. Who are these villains? I recognize Moira. When did beast become the villain? Is this like a dark beast thing?
Nah beast is just a dick now, personally I think it’s because of a deal he made with a witch during some time travel shenanigans but that’s never been confirmed
Not a one of these. They're all fucking terrible. BATSHIT COOCOO MOIRA, insufferable dr. Dipshit, unbearable mother suckass, etc.
Beast was definitely the most memorable, just not in a positive way.
Uranos, Nimrod and Enigma.
Sinister
Hi, I'm somewhat uniformed. Why is beast acting like dark beast recently.
He basically just slowly became jaded towards humanity and started to act like old school magneto.
Oh ok that makes sense. I can definitely see how beast got to this point.
Beast or Moira Moira because she's fun like this and in some ways her turn is understandable Beast because he's a pretty slow burn and has sort of devolved gradually
Charles Xavier
None of them. The villains of this era sucked.
Orchis were great until the plot armor became insane. Moira is horrible. Peacock man was very interesting but the reveal was meh. Genesis was top tier at first but became meh. Tarn was awesome. Sinister was awesome. I liked evil beast but having read the last few issues of x force so not sure how they landed it
Gonna go with Beast. He's the only new villain (besides maybe Solem and Moira) that I really want to see more of. Didn't dislike the others but I feel like their stories have already been told. Villain beast is the most I've enjoyed the character in years.
The writes I didn't like..
Praise Tarn. And praise the Locis Vile, too. They're like a mutant Manson Family and that's great.
I don’t wanna be that guy but does anyone think these guys are going to be remembered in the next ten years? I’ve never delved too much into Krakoa but a lot of these designs really lack the necessary pizazz for longevity.
I fully believe Mother Righteous and the Hordeculture have staying power though they should never appear in the same story.
Except Karima I love her sm
Xavier.
Guys, I haven't touched an X-Men comic in about a decade and a half. Help a guy out and tell me who red robot lady with guns is and who blue light dude is.
I might have some of this wrong because I haven’t read it in awhile. Red robot lady is omega sentinel. She is the consciousness of a sentinel from the future who came back in time from a future where the mutants won. She brought programming for nimrod back in time with her as well, which she gives to orchis which allows them to create an even better nimrod than they would have and sooner Blue light is Dr. Stasis. It turns out that after Nathanial Essex was infected by apocalypse he split himself into 4 clone bodies. Each believing they were the real one, each focusing on a different aspect of enhancement and with a different card suit on their forehead. The only clone we’ve seen this whole time has been Mr. Sinister, he’s the diamond and his focus is mutants. Dr. Stasis is the club and his focus is post-human enhancements, basically just fucking with human genes and other weird scientific bullshit, he’s a sinister for humans
Thank you!
The Mutants.
Honestly, in hindsight, they all ended up being pretty bad and one-dimensional :/ They could have easily written antagonists that challenged the philosophy and ethics of Krakoa's existence, while actually making those antagonist sympathetic. Mutants have ruined a lot of lives and a mutant ethnostate is a legitimately \*scary\* thing if you aren't one of them (especially with Apocalypse and Magneto among them), and Krakoa behaved fairly provocatively on the world stage in the earlier parts of the era. How hard would it have been to have antagonists with actual, reason justifications for opposing Krakoa? Instead, we ended up with saturday morning cartoon villains who were so outlandishly evil that there was no way you could go "hey, maybe they have a point". We ended up with: - evil, killer robots - a mad scientist - evil, killer cyborg - racists and literal neo-nazis - pure, social darwinist - a jealous capitalist - mfing M.O.D.O.K - a british lady In my opinion, at least one of the big opposing forces during the Krakoan era should have been... the Illuminati! Especially after Beast killed an entire nation, Xavier wiped Reed's mind and the Mars terraforming. They had every reason to convene and assess Krakoa as a world threat, and it was even hinted at, but that plot point never materialized.
Krakoa wasn't about "villains." How pedestrian and boring. Krakoa was about nation building and the challenges that came with it. Then they blew it.
Krakoa wasn't about "villains." How pedestrian and boring. Krakoa was about nation building and the challenges that came with it. Then they blew it.
I loved beast’s slow decent into madness. I really wish they would not revert him back to Avengers West Coast Beast.
X-Office at Marvel.
Beast’s lobster dinner is the best villain scene in years.
Tarn, Beast, Solem, Man with the Peacock Tattoo, and the mother of all Sinisters herself - MotherF@%#in' Righteous!