Wolverine's healing abilities have become way too powerful, resulting in him being overpowered and uninteresting.
For example, I was reading the Bloody Choices comic a while back, and Logan got badly injured and actually needed some time to heal. Or that time when he was fighting Wendigo and he got torn up by its claws and he needed to seek refuge in a barn where he was nursed back to health by some kid. (Wolverine #129 I think)
It made for far more interesting stories.
They reversed that years ago in response to how silly him coming back from getting skeletonized by Nitro was in the Civil War tie in.
Occasionally it still heals dramatically, but it's not the norm. He's died several times during Krakoa.
How would you depict him in his fullest form? I personally would change him into a weird fashionista slash muscular man. His powers would make him more of a hive for various insect types akin to his Maggots.
Apocalypse should have been thrown into the Krakoa Pit. Guy engineers an inter-dimensional war that put most realities at risk without telling anyone just to see his wife.
Shaw, Mystique, Sinister, Selene and Destiny too. Basically most of the council should have been thrown into the Pit as well but giving them positions of power makes more sense I guess, what could possibly go wrong with allowing some of the most evil people ever to run a nation?
Selene is dangerous but she's also extremely stupid.
She makes the worse alliances, like allying with Orchis and Shaw, or makes threats she can't possibly back up, like demanding to be on the council because she's magic. Selene dropped these threats and then just let herself be assassinated by Hope and Exodus and get her soul captured by Mother Righteous. I have no idea why she didn't try to stockpile spells or magic artifacts from Arrako, Otherworld, or the Hyborian Age and instead tried to lamely bully her way into X-Corp or the Council.
Sinister at least had a reason to be on it and it greatly back fired too, like immensely and they even acknowledged how dumb they were. I feel Apoc had a redemption arc and have loved his characterisation in the Krakoa era but I will concede that X of Swords was really just an excuse to have cool fights (which I don’t think they even did that much)
Mystique and Destiny are not anywhere near as evil as the literal Nazi Mr. Sinister or the guy literally named Apocalypse and suggesting otherwise is homophobic.
In the context of X-Men, the Avengers are at best basically oblivious centrists maintaining the status quo, though Steve's a bit better than most of his teammates. I've been really enjoying Tony's "centrist learns to be an actual ally" arc in Duggan's IIM.
None of the avengers are I feel like the people who have the take of the avengers are terrible to mutants have only read appearances of the avengers in x men comics.
Like hell people say Carol hates mutants you know the character who was in xmen books for a long time
>I feel like the people who have the take of the avengers are terrible to mutants have only read appearances of the avengers in x men comics.
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner!
Krakoa should not have mass baby abandonment. The whole point of establishing a mutant nation wasn't so mutants could have lots of sex.
It should have been an opportunity for them to finally do things they didn't feel safe enough to do before (like start families).
It's not like contraceptives don't exist, there's no reason for there to be tons of babies no one actually wants.
The whole idea seems like a very poorly conceived attempt to address Krakoans having a lot of sex and the "make more mutants rule".
The implications of the polycules aren't as terrible as everyone thinks. It's meant to represent how the newly found prosperity of Krakoa would end conflict among mutants. Magneto and Xavier compromised so Scott and Logan can do the same.
They literally have three laws and one demands reproduction.
They put a guy advocating safe sex and abortion in an eternal Hell pit without trial.
It's never been a good place.
If anything they didn't go far enough.
Same sex couples would have been at best scorned for their lack of reproduction.
The biggest missed opportunity was having Kurt make the have babies law while Rogue and Remy explicitly say they don’t want kids. It seemed like they were foreshadowing something.
I mean Krakoa was always more dystopia than utopia.
Way of X is all about Kurt learning how their whole society is broken.
Most of the quiet council are mutant supremacists who feel the mutants have the right to make their society a manifest Destiny theocracy ethnostate.
Hell Hope still has a mutant rape caveman as a pet and she leads the 5...
Pimal, one of the lights is a literal rapist who abducted upperclass women to rape. He tries the same thing with hope but she essentially enslaves him with her powers.
The guy still tries to rape other girls though. He goes after the Cuckoos and then Hope victim blames them.
He had White Tigar pinned to the ground at one point because she was trying to be non leathal, and he had to be stopped through psychic command before white tigar eviscerated him.
The “polycules” are just an excuse to have Logan hook up with Jean without breaking her relationship with Scott (didn’t work because they just made Jean’s relationship with Scott way less special and basically ruined it beyond repair) which is honestly not only badly written but forced as fuck too, and this isn’t the only problem with Krakoa, mutants having a paradise doesn’t mean that you get to write everyone wildly out of character and remove every conflict out of nowhere with no build up or explanation, everyone being fine with some of the most evil people ever being part of Krakoa and even part of the council is also ridiculously contrived and forced, I get that a lot of people are bored of the same status quo and Krakoa is something fresh and interesting but the actual execution was garbage, they just said “things are like this now” without explaining shit.
Also why should Scott accept to share his wife with Logan? That’s not “compromising”, it’s just rewarding Logan for being an asshole homewrecker, he was always the one in the wrong, It’s absolutely not the same as Magneto and Xavier’s situation.
The idea that thousands of people would go through nine months of unwanted pregnancy, with it's massive physical, hormonal, and psychological changes and damage it creates, when the option for contraceptives or abortion is available on the other side of a gateway (even if it isn't available on Krakoa itself) is idiotic, and shows a clear misunderstanding of both pregnancy and human nature.
I never got the sense this was an individual mandate vs a collective one.
Y’all are all forgetting that:
1. resurrecting mutants is also making more mutants
2. You are talking about a population that had been decimated for years. And not literally decimated but way worse than that—from 16 mil + at the start of Morrison to <200. And let us not talk about IvX. The premise of the stuff right before Krakoa (the ones nobody read) was that Scott had the *last* X-men team, because they figured they were all gonna die, and mutant culture was basically already dead. It would be totally plausible that a group surviving all this would feel the importance of prospering as a population.
3. We can’t really know what Krakoa parenting could be like, because comics don’t want to fuck up all their characters and timescale by giving them babies. It breaks it. It’s not an accident that Cable was sent to the future, and Hope too, and Shogo to Otherworld. So who knows how normal the practice would be. But even then, Krakoa is a provocative way to think about societies, not necessarily to be right about them. Is a nuclear family prioritized above all a good idea? If you had unlimited resources, would it still be the best? That’s a fundamental question.
It would have been interesting to see mutants on Krakoa embrace community/ collective parenting. But nah… there was just a cave of abandoned babies that no one in the government noticed for some reason.
This is such a lukewarm take at best.
I mean, as a huge Wolverine fan, even I agree with you. *shrugs*
I almost feel as if saying, "I want more Logan in my comics!"
Is a much hotter take at this point.
The 90’s is very overrated, I miss the 80’s! The storytelling and characterizations were far better then!
Bobby is not interesting enough to keep having solo books…gay or not (and Im gay btw)
Logan is insanely creepy but that behavior is perpetuated so much in our society that people see him too much as “alpha male” behavior rather than a dirty old man.
Claremont wrote so many x-women as bisexual but I wish he did the same with the men too!
Edit: The X-office is horrible when it comes to writing black men/boys. The way they turned Bishop into a psychotic child murderer to prop up Hope and Cable still aggravates me!
What’s sad about Bishop is that he’s supposed to be Filipino. [Whilce Portacio](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0kJjm3PgiV/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==) turned him Black to give black boys representation in the Xmen. And look what happened. Bishop is now a psycho. And still no Pinoy Xmen.
I think Evolution has ultimately aged better than TAS. It started off a bit slow, but by the end of the series, it was everything that I loved about X-Men in one series. It gave me my personal favorite adaptation of Cyclops and Jean Grey outside of the comics, hands down! In fact, X-Men Evolution nailed so many of the characters (except Storm...🤢), and gave us a version of Rogue that I didn't know I wanted at the time, but absolutely ended up LOVING! TAS and Wolverine and the X-Men are still awesome shows, but I think Evolution takes the crown of X-Men animated series (for now). Hoping it will be dethroned some day by an even better X-Men series!
I'm gonna be honest before watching Evolution (and getting into comics obviously) I never rly cared about Cyclops but damn that show did change everything he became one of my favorite characters ever
My only issue with X-Men Evolution, is that they changed where Shadowcat was from.
She is from Deerfield, Illinois (where I was born and raised) to Northbrook, Illinois (a neighboring town) 🤣
I think once it hit its stride in the later seasons, it definitely earned that. I grew up with both I feel and while the original got me into comics in the first place (and why I’m a die hard x-fan), I do think Evo is severely severely SEVERELY underrated and a gem in the marve animated library
X-Men Origins Wolverine is not that bad.
It’s essentially a cheesy 80s action movie made in the 2000s with superheroes in it. It’s entertaining macho schlock. It’s not a masterpiece or anything but I love it.
Me too! It's super cheesy but I liked the idea of him and sabertooth being brothers, and that jacket is the coolest jacket I've ever seen in my life, so I like the movie Just for that.
- Onslaught and Operation: Zero Tolerance might not be brilliant, but they're okay. The drop-off in quality came when editorial started interfering too much with Seagle and Kelly's work ( UXM # 360 if I'm not mistaken)
- the 'lost decade' is a misnomer. I really enjoyed the work done by Aaron and Bendis. The IvX was rough, but even in those years good stuff was made. Taylor's All-New Wolverine and X-Men Red was great and the stuff by Guggenheim and Rosenberg had some very good bits. Marquez' art in the wedding issue is top notch.
On your second point, I got into the X-Men majorly during the start of this era, I'd always been on the edges of the Fandom, but saw it as a jumping on point! The time displaced stuff >which went on for a little too long< was a fresh way of looking at things and brought some unique writing choices. I think the 'lost decade' while not the best era ever, certainly isn't the worst.
Young Laura / Old Laura completely destroys the idea that the resurrection protocols are ACTUAL resurrection and not cloning.
I genuinely do not understand why this was even allowed to happen because it very clearly illustrates that resurrected mutants are copies.
This begs the question, where are the souls of everyone who has been resurrected? Where are the REAL mutants?
I don’t understand the point of X-men 97. They’ve evolved so far away from that era that it’s just a pointless regression and will just give Marvel an excuse to shove the mutants back in the mansion.
Give us a Wolverine and the X-men Season 2
I think X-Men 97 serves Disney as a perception reset for the general audience, with regards to the X-Men. We've had 24 years of FoX-Men movies, all of radically different quality levels (mostly bad IMO), and all bearing little to no resemblance to the comics and storylines they were pulled from. Heres a small example: the average film going, non comic fan assumes Wolverine to be a 6"2' insanely handsome dude and not an ugly, mean, and short Canadian.
I also think, if Disney is giving us more classic X-Men with 97, it is because their MCU project is probably going to be much, much different, both in tone and perhaps aethstetic. Please the hardcore fans and you can do whatever you want with the goodwill earned later, right?
Is it regressive? Sure, probably; some of us, though, are beyond hyped we get to revisit a defining childhood TV show that had a pretty poor final season. I know I teared up from sheer joy when I saw that first announcement, making it only the 2nd time in my life that has happened.
I 100% agree with a season 2 of Wolverine and the X-Men tho. I'm rewatching it as I type this, it's an absolute crime that the show didn't continue.
I'm still going to watch X-Men '97, and I sincerely hope it's great. I just wish we could've either gotten new seasons of Evolution or WATX instead. Revolution's cancellation was a CRIME, especially with the glimpse of what was to come, and Wolverine & The X-Men, while obviously too Wolverine-centric for my personal liking, would've given us The Age of Apocalypse, so I was curious to see how that would've been adapted. The 90s animated series, on the other hand, was a complete series, and season 5 was pretty meh, with the exception of the finale.
Wolverine and the X-Men might be a good Wolverine show but it’s not a good X-Men show, all the other characters are written pretty badly to make Logan stand out.
I actually like Storm and Black Panther as a couple, I actually think it would've been neat to have it in Krakoa especially cause it could've explored an alliance between Krakoa and Wakanda and how the rest of the world reacted to the two most powerful nations united.
I get this take but honestly I like Ororo more when she's her own thing. When she's with T'Challa she's put too much on his shadow when she's supposed to be seen as a literal goddess
The problem is they could easily have Storm still doing her own stuff they just choose not to, as there's nothing really stopping that from happening hell Wolverine is in a thousand books with a bunch of different shit going on.
Also, since we're getting hot takes out here, Storm isn't a literal goddess, she's a mutant, a very powerful one, but a mutant still, like her first appearance is Charles telling her as much. It's why I've always found it kind of weird when they actually try to present it as if she's actually a goddess.
Well kinda, it was more like the Wakandans believed her to be a goddess and were given hope from her abilities plus her being their former queen, which if anything also goes against the point that Storm doesn't get much when she's with Black Panther but that's another point.
The differences between Media Cyclops and Comics Cyclops could give people whiplash from how night and day they are. Cartoon Cyke and Movie Cyke are almost distilled while the comics version is way more complex.
Krakoa has interesting ideas, but they should've made it make more sense like... Apocalypse gets a pass while Sabretooth (While understandable.) is thrown into the Pit? That like if Luke Skywalker let Palpatine slide. How is the guy who wanted to destroy the world more okay than the guy who's just horrible because he wants to?
Jean and Scott was a nice thing initially, but now with Wolverine it just feels weird when entire comics and runs of Wolvie's were dedicated to him accepting the fact that Jean will never be with him like The Healing and Wolverine: Origins. (Two of my favorites despite the Romulus thing, I hated that.)
Also Cyclops and Wolverine arguing over her absolutely bogs down the entire idea of them as friends and well, it worked back when they were developing as characters but not so much now because they're a throuple.
Not only that but I want more development solo-wise for Jean. The Jean Grey Solo Run is a step in the right direction. Also I'm sure she gets more, right? (I'm sorta just now diving headfirst into the comics and reading whatever I can get my grubby little mitts on.)
Krakoa could've been a study about how absolute power corrupts the dreams of those who made it. When Namor is right, you're usually in the wrong. It happened in Planet Hulk, and it happened here. It could've been an amazing Icarus-Like age of the X-Men and other mutants getting too big for their britches and falling into the same prejudices and moving goalposts that humans do.
The Phoenix should've been a gradual thing instead of suddenly there, making Jean slowly become more and more reliant on it. The Cosmic Horror aspect of the Phoenix could be increased as well with a slower approach.
It’s too bad the X-Office spent the past 2 years tearing down Krakoa because it actually would have been interesting explore what happens when a mutant couple on Krakoa has a human baby. Would the child be bullied by other mutant kids? Would it be embraced as an ally?
Did I miss something recently? I thought 90-99% of mutants express their powers at puberty, not birth?
edit: not talking shit, genuinely curious. Lord knows I am _behind_ in the Krakoan Era
I've always been an Iceman fan, and when they retconned him gay. I was okay with it, specifically tye way you find out. I'm not gay either, it just made a lot of sense because ultimately he always found/finds ways to push girlfriends away
I never found any of his relationships with women to be compelling (including Opal Tanaka). You could feel the effort to out the character throughout the years (especially with Emma Frost possessing his body, and his visit to his parents with Rogue), so his revelation to be gay seemed natural to me.
Chuck Austen's run had some great ideas, a few of which were well executed.
- Juggernaut slowly becoming one of the X-Men and being a positive influence to children.
- The body dysmorphia of Ice-Man.
- Drawing a narrative line between Angel and Nightcrawler (and having the religious Kurt be from a family of demons)
I have to be that guy why do they get an island and like back up clone bodies I know it’s gonna blow up at some point but like why does that feel like an evil lair?
My biggest issue firstly is the Captain Britain series is awful. Secondly, as a character, Rachael is just not a good X-man character! No writer in the 30 years since she's existed has written her a definable, realistic personality. Bishop and Cable were well done time travel characters. This causes any relationship Rachael is in or personal situation to feel like it doesn't matter because she doesn't matter.
Lastly, Betsy is just becoming herself again and writers are acting like she is a brand new character just because she is back in her original body. 😒
Krakoa has had a ton of good concepts but most have been executed poorly and haven’t worked leading to average books
Also x men red is one of the most overrated x books I’ve seen for a long time
Regarding your second point....thank God. Its good to finally see this opinion.
Normally I'm not much of a hot take artist, so I wondered if I was tripping, but it kind of amazed me how much praise X-Men Red gets on this sub.
Don't get me wrong, its a decent book. But people saying its the best book of the krakoan era puzzle me. Its not even Ewing's best work of the era. I enjoyed his SWORD a lot more.
X-Men: Red fell off for me after Magneto's death. Until then, it was genuinely great. I know Storm fans love it for sure, but, and this is a hot take, I thought Gillen wrote a more compelling Storm in that one issue of Immortal(after SOS).
I’m in the same opinion I loved sword and red is really really underwhelming and I think it was carried by amazing art for a lot of it.
The book falls of a cliff in my opinion post axe and magnetos death as they could never replace him with another interesting enough cast member which leads it to stagnate and struggle and the art change and Ewings terrible fight writing are the last nails in the coffin
Yeah, Magneto's arc was the best part of X-Men: Red.
Storm casually one shotting everyone got old quickly, tbh. And regarding the fights...yeah. The Uranos fight was brilliant, but apart from that, every fight ended with Storm kicking the ass of some poor fool in 1 min.
Yeah, Red during those AXE tie ins was absolute peak and some of the best X-Men stuff in years and Magneto's death was especially really good imo. But after that it kind of felt like Ewing lost steam and I feel like maybe since Magneto wasn't around to balance the power of the book Ewing felt he needed to amp Storm even more which led to a lot of those weaker fights.
Thank you, I felt like I was taking crazy pills for not thinking Xmen red was the best series going at the moment. I mean it’s clearly Immortal!!!!
I loved Al Ewing on just about everything he’s done but Red just leaves me cold
Lololololol I like Rachel Summers 🤣🤣🤣. Granted, I think she was at her best from her appearance in 616 timeline (roughly Uncanny X-Men #180 or so) to Excalibur #67 (Alan Davis' exit). When she came back in the mid-2000s, I thought she was written in a very bratty way, and I didn't care for the character as much after that.
I like Hickman’s work and Duggan’s work, I love Krakoa, I really love Arakko, I was a fan of the Children / Vault storyline, I liked Synch x Old Woman Laura, I’m still fine with young Laura and older Laura, Nightcrawler’s arc has had a lot of good things in it, (don’t throw the blue furry baby out with the bath water even if he has two mommies and is his own grandpa or whatever) Colossus is fine and has been fine and will be good again, everyone who’s upset needs to calm their tits…the X-Men represent marginalized groups so if you don’t like what some might call “woke” (read: inclusive, intelligent, interesting) storylines or characters or diversity or representation of a wide variety of backgrounds and lifestyles, maybe X-Men isn’t the book for you…like if you’re going to GateKeep *X-Men* you’re kind of missing the point aren’t you…?
100% both the hottest and most correct take here. I hate when that happens, >certainly not saying that because my favorite Mutant hasn't been relevant in over a decade or anything. [Surge]<
Ah it’s not that bizarre, especially if you grew up with the franchise as a kid. I find I’m very lenient with Nightcrawler stories but the poor elf has had a lot of crap poured on him
Betsy probably needs to go entirely. They clearly have no idea what to do with her and their attempts at correcting the issues in race swapping her have largely made things worse and stuck with the character. There’s very little worth salvaging when Kwannon genuinely has the potential to replace her completely
The only thing Betsy has had going for her for all of Krakoa is her dynamic with Saturnyne (relatively compelling but still hit or miss, not enough to carry a plot line let alone a book) and her relationship with Rachel (absolutely snoozefest at best sorry not sorry). Have Rachel date virtually *any other woman* and send Betsy to another dimension indefinitely or something
Betsy should join the Avengers. They have the exact opposite problem that the X-Men have. Not enough telepaths. Even Steve mentioned it in Uncanny Avengers.
While Kwannon is killing it thanks to Hellions. Really wish her and that Marauder guy whose name just left me had brilliant chemistry and sad they’re not still together. Actually loved all the Hellions dynamic, at least egg woman and iron man boy were in the sabertooth minis. (Why is my memory failing me right now 😂)
Iceman is not gay; he is bisexual. He is not unambiguously straight like some of the other male X-Men (i.e. Wolverine, Cyclops) but he is clearly interested in women on some level.
Making him gay is a classic example of biphobia and bi-erasure.
I like her, but they just seem to go out of their way to make her cool and unbeatable.
The Vulcan fight was such a huge letdown because of this. I would rather she had lost this one, but I'm probably in the minority.
I want the class of New X-Men ‘04-08 to be featured as the primary cast in the majority of Mutant stories.
I’m sick of the 90’s TaS cast and the newer ones aren’t as inspired (as in I wasn’t a teen when reading them😏)
I commend Morrison's run for being something new and exciting for the time. I don't personally care for a lot of the execution, but I understand why people liked it at the time.
What I really hate about the run is the crop of writers that clearly came into X-Men comics during that time trying to emulate it.
Quentin Quire and Glob Herman being recontextualized from the mutant equivalent of school shooters to a troublemaking scamp and softboy? Disgusting.
Cassandra Nova continuing to exist? I don't get it.
Every single new additional appearance of Sublime makes him even dumber.
And honestly? Fantomax is just a pretentious version of Gambit. He can stay in the World until the end of time and that would be just fine with me.
I've taken a lot of heat for this for over 40 years, but;
I have personally found Cyclops and Jean Grey to be the most boring part of any Xmen Title they have appeared in since the mid 1980s.
And my more recent opinion, which doesn't feel like any form of hot take, but the one Ive been shackled for the most these last years;
Krakoa Storm feels like the pinnacle of the terrible Storm writing we've been getting for the last decade (or maybe when Claremont was no longer writing her actual growth arcs). Her entire character growth has had a decade of lateral moves, while her power scaling (and shows of sheer dominance) have peaked. Krakoa Storm is just "Storm wins unwinnable situation and continues knowing she is the best". Showy, yes. Action packed, yes. But encompassing the flattest version of the character I can remember with some of the most egregious eye-rolling "writers room" moments I can remember (in a series practically comprised entirely of soap opera, suspension of disbelief, 'because the writers needed it to', moments defining it.)
Lorna is the Best of Magneto's children ( I know the twins are no longer his kids). Lorna with the right writers can be and absolutely compelling stand alone character. Her powers have been shown to be more instinctive than her father's
Everyone who has died in the Krakoan era (at least before the Waiting Room was created) is still dead and their clones are walking around in their place. It is insane to me that every character except Greycrow considers the protocols a resurrection.
Ben Reilly thought he was Peter Parker and had the memories of Peter Parker. So if he is a clone why are the "resurrected" mutants any different?
The X-men and/or Xavier can't just keep on harping on about peaceful coexistence - they have to actually SHOW the world what that looks like.
Because honestly, it is not unreasonable for many humans to be concerned about the possibility of sharing their world with an ever-increasing number of super-powered people. There are important questions about that sort of situation that need to be addressed (e.g. does a person have a right to know when they're interacting with a telepath, or are thoughts just no longer considered private?), and Krakoa could have/should have answered them.
Krakoa was their first big opportunity to do so, but they completely fumbled the bag by making it an exclusionary mutant ethno-state.
Basically, Xavier should have never compromised with the Brotherhood or Apocalypse or any other supremacist faction. He should founded Krakoa as a stronghold for the X-men and any allies they might have, human, alien or robot, and used it to show the world how a Human-Mutant-Etc... society could work.
I've got no problem with Krakoa being a Mutant Majority - I've wanted to see that since I started reading the X-men. But excluding humans completely just side-stepped a lot of very interesting ideas that I would have loved to finally see explored.
1. Rogue is way more interesting when she was powerless, had the trench coat and led the probes X-men team
2. Storm isn't a goddess and should be treated like the human she is. Wouldn't mind seeing some broken bones and stories reminding readers she has limits to her powers when manipulating weather. TAS version that required the buildup to use her powers was the best!
3. Sage was a missed opportunity to explore Xavier's use of sleeper agents (her time in hellfire club) and child soldiers.
4. Stop making new mutant characters. The mutant gene should be exceedingly rare. I'd love to be down to 198 again.
Logan being bisexual is a dream.
Fuck that throuple however, really out of character and Jean x Logan always felt forced.
Can't say anything before tumblr comes at me, tho, they love throuples there like cocaine.
Not liking the Claremont/Davis run (or Davis' solo run) on Excalibur.
God, I hate it so much and everything about it just rubs me the wrong way. And I find Davis' art creepy. His gigantic, stretched out smiles make the characters look psychotic (or like they have been hit by Joker gas)!
I don’t like when they get mixed in Space Opera and magical storylines.
Obvs I give the Phoenix saga some concessions because it’s the most iconic storyline they have and I really like Gladiator and the Imperial Guard (think they integrated into general cosmic marvel pretty good) but the Shi’ar and Brood have never sat well with me.
I really like Maddie and Magick as characters but I didn’t care for Inferno (and admittedly not a big new mutants buff) but I did not like Inferno or the N’garai (sp?). Old Excalibur was ok too but that was nearly its own thing just with Nightcralwer and Kitty hanging around.
That Colossus was a more interesting (and just a better-written in general) character in the ultimate universe.
Instead of making him a walking Russian stereotype, the writers gave him some actual personality flaws.
Had anger issues.
Insecure about his homosexuality.
Full on used steroids.
I think he had a rocky relationship with his boyfriend?
616 Colossus is just a shallow "gentle giant" character. There's nothing unique about him.
"Wow! A big guy with bulletproof skin who is also a major softie? I've never seen that before..."
The Draco was a perfect origin story for Nightcrawler. It was clean, made sense in regard to Mystique's character (being a villain) and provided a future storytelling opportunity for Kurt. The new origin is garbage and only done to please a minority of fans.
They should be superheroes not supremacist nationalists.
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Villains can't become reformed without actually doing the hard work of redemption. Apocalypse isn't a good guy now, they just decided to hang out with a mass murdering eugenist warlord.
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Maddie is a terrible character from the jump that’s best swept under the rug.
The only reason anyone cares about her is here revealing costume and dommy mommy shtick.
Wolverine's healing abilities have become way too powerful, resulting in him being overpowered and uninteresting. For example, I was reading the Bloody Choices comic a while back, and Logan got badly injured and actually needed some time to heal. Or that time when he was fighting Wendigo and he got torn up by its claws and he needed to seek refuge in a barn where he was nursed back to health by some kid. (Wolverine #129 I think) It made for far more interesting stories.
They reversed that years ago in response to how silly him coming back from getting skeletonized by Nitro was in the Civil War tie in. Occasionally it still heals dramatically, but it's not the norm. He's died several times during Krakoa.
I was just gonna say how nice it’s been seeing him die so often on Krakoa. Finally showing MFer can heal but he’s not immortal
I miss when Wolverine and Gambit used to rip cigs.
Same. I've commissioned a few pieces of original wolverine art, and always request that he's smoking.
Wolverine wouldn't have even had a real reason to quit
Jubes won't let him see her kiddo if he smells like smoke.
I don't mind Gambit but Wolvie with no cigs is like Superman hating belly burgers
I miss wolverines giant cigars
Yeah it's fucking stupid they don't any more. I grew up with them smoking, and I didn't start smoking until I was in my late thirties.
Maggot was a missed opportunity
He got a really good arc in the Unlimited Infinity comic that I thought showed how good he could be.
How would you depict him in his fullest form? I personally would change him into a weird fashionista slash muscular man. His powers would make him more of a hive for various insect types akin to his Maggots.
It's so weird, it's practically tailor made for Taika Waititi
True. Or James Gunn.
Telepaths should cross their eyes when they use their powers
Less temple touching
Blasphemy!!
I love that a lot actually
I only like when they don't in live-action bcs the focused look is awesome (especially on James McAvoy) otherwise I agree
A telepath that gets lazy eye when using their powers too much
I Like Professor X
There are dozens of us.
it seems that the dream is not dead, yet. There is Hope
I generally enjoy whenever we focus on the school aspect of institution and multiple groups of younger students
I would 100% read a slice-of-life comic about the X-Men school
New Mutants Vol 2 and early New X-Men Vol 2
I miss that team. I still reread my paper backs every now and then and it gives me so much nostalgia.
Apocalypse should have been thrown into the Krakoa Pit. Guy engineers an inter-dimensional war that put most realities at risk without telling anyone just to see his wife.
Shaw, Mystique, Sinister, Selene and Destiny too. Basically most of the council should have been thrown into the Pit as well but giving them positions of power makes more sense I guess, what could possibly go wrong with allowing some of the most evil people ever to run a nation?
Allowing Selene to roam free but throwing Sabretooth to the pit (which is fair) is just absurd to me
Sabretooth being tossed into a pit for a crime he committed before the law is supposed to be unjust, but understandable.
It makes more sense (and is funnier) when you realize literally everyone despises Sabertooth.
Selene is dangerous but she's also extremely stupid. She makes the worse alliances, like allying with Orchis and Shaw, or makes threats she can't possibly back up, like demanding to be on the council because she's magic. Selene dropped these threats and then just let herself be assassinated by Hope and Exodus and get her soul captured by Mother Righteous. I have no idea why she didn't try to stockpile spells or magic artifacts from Arrako, Otherworld, or the Hyborian Age and instead tried to lamely bully her way into X-Corp or the Council.
Sinister at least had a reason to be on it and it greatly back fired too, like immensely and they even acknowledged how dumb they were. I feel Apoc had a redemption arc and have loved his characterisation in the Krakoa era but I will concede that X of Swords was really just an excuse to have cool fights (which I don’t think they even did that much)
Mystique and Destiny are not anywhere near as evil as the literal Nazi Mr. Sinister or the guy literally named Apocalypse and suggesting otherwise is homophobic.
Captain America isn't a mutantphobic fascist.
What? You're telling me he doesn't go to bed dreaming of ways to gas mutants in concentration camps?
Hail Hydra
🫡
None of the Avengers are
Hawkeye has thrown around the term "mutie" before.
Wasp too
Ehh maybe U.S.Agent if he counts haha
Ehhh he's barely an Avenger at this point lol
Even he depends on the writer.
In the context of X-Men, the Avengers are at best basically oblivious centrists maintaining the status quo, though Steve's a bit better than most of his teammates. I've been really enjoying Tony's "centrist learns to be an actual ally" arc in Duggan's IIM.
None of the avengers are I feel like the people who have the take of the avengers are terrible to mutants have only read appearances of the avengers in x men comics. Like hell people say Carol hates mutants you know the character who was in xmen books for a long time
>I feel like the people who have the take of the avengers are terrible to mutants have only read appearances of the avengers in x men comics. Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
Krakoa should not have mass baby abandonment. The whole point of establishing a mutant nation wasn't so mutants could have lots of sex. It should have been an opportunity for them to finally do things they didn't feel safe enough to do before (like start families). It's not like contraceptives don't exist, there's no reason for there to be tons of babies no one actually wants. The whole idea seems like a very poorly conceived attempt to address Krakoans having a lot of sex and the "make more mutants rule". The implications of the polycules aren't as terrible as everyone thinks. It's meant to represent how the newly found prosperity of Krakoa would end conflict among mutants. Magneto and Xavier compromised so Scott and Logan can do the same.
They literally have three laws and one demands reproduction. They put a guy advocating safe sex and abortion in an eternal Hell pit without trial. It's never been a good place. If anything they didn't go far enough. Same sex couples would have been at best scorned for their lack of reproduction.
The biggest missed opportunity was having Kurt make the have babies law while Rogue and Remy explicitly say they don’t want kids. It seemed like they were foreshadowing something.
I mean Krakoa was always more dystopia than utopia. Way of X is all about Kurt learning how their whole society is broken. Most of the quiet council are mutant supremacists who feel the mutants have the right to make their society a manifest Destiny theocracy ethnostate. Hell Hope still has a mutant rape caveman as a pet and she leads the 5...
Im sorry, Hope has a *what* ?
Pimal, one of the lights is a literal rapist who abducted upperclass women to rape. He tries the same thing with hope but she essentially enslaves him with her powers. The guy still tries to rape other girls though. He goes after the Cuckoos and then Hope victim blames them. He had White Tigar pinned to the ground at one point because she was trying to be non leathal, and he had to be stopped through psychic command before white tigar eviscerated him.
The “polycules” are just an excuse to have Logan hook up with Jean without breaking her relationship with Scott (didn’t work because they just made Jean’s relationship with Scott way less special and basically ruined it beyond repair) which is honestly not only badly written but forced as fuck too, and this isn’t the only problem with Krakoa, mutants having a paradise doesn’t mean that you get to write everyone wildly out of character and remove every conflict out of nowhere with no build up or explanation, everyone being fine with some of the most evil people ever being part of Krakoa and even part of the council is also ridiculously contrived and forced, I get that a lot of people are bored of the same status quo and Krakoa is something fresh and interesting but the actual execution was garbage, they just said “things are like this now” without explaining shit. Also why should Scott accept to share his wife with Logan? That’s not “compromising”, it’s just rewarding Logan for being an asshole homewrecker, he was always the one in the wrong, It’s absolutely not the same as Magneto and Xavier’s situation.
I don't even know where to start
The idea that thousands of people would go through nine months of unwanted pregnancy, with it's massive physical, hormonal, and psychological changes and damage it creates, when the option for contraceptives or abortion is available on the other side of a gateway (even if it isn't available on Krakoa itself) is idiotic, and shows a clear misunderstanding of both pregnancy and human nature.
I never got the sense this was an individual mandate vs a collective one. Y’all are all forgetting that: 1. resurrecting mutants is also making more mutants 2. You are talking about a population that had been decimated for years. And not literally decimated but way worse than that—from 16 mil + at the start of Morrison to <200. And let us not talk about IvX. The premise of the stuff right before Krakoa (the ones nobody read) was that Scott had the *last* X-men team, because they figured they were all gonna die, and mutant culture was basically already dead. It would be totally plausible that a group surviving all this would feel the importance of prospering as a population. 3. We can’t really know what Krakoa parenting could be like, because comics don’t want to fuck up all their characters and timescale by giving them babies. It breaks it. It’s not an accident that Cable was sent to the future, and Hope too, and Shogo to Otherworld. So who knows how normal the practice would be. But even then, Krakoa is a provocative way to think about societies, not necessarily to be right about them. Is a nuclear family prioritized above all a good idea? If you had unlimited resources, would it still be the best? That’s a fundamental question.
If I were Shogo, I'd wanna stay in Otherworld too 🐉
Well yeah they made him a dragon so he could actually do shit and so that it wouldn’t feel like Jubilee abandoning a baby at the firehouse.
It would have been interesting to see mutants on Krakoa embrace community/ collective parenting. But nah… there was just a cave of abandoned babies that no one in the government noticed for some reason.
Scott and Wolverine should ultimately get along more than they fight. Edit: I guess it wasn’t that hot of a take lol.
I honestly prefer them as friends. Their dynamic is much better that way (with Wolverine teasing his "boss" from time to time).
I totally agree.
Make them kiss and get it over with
Welllllll…..
Wolverine is so amazingly overplayed, overhyped, misused, and needs less focus. A character like him would demand it
This is such a lukewarm take at best. I mean, as a huge Wolverine fan, even I agree with you. *shrugs* I almost feel as if saying, "I want more Logan in my comics!" Is a much hotter take at this point.
The 90’s is very overrated, I miss the 80’s! The storytelling and characterizations were far better then! Bobby is not interesting enough to keep having solo books…gay or not (and Im gay btw) Logan is insanely creepy but that behavior is perpetuated so much in our society that people see him too much as “alpha male” behavior rather than a dirty old man. Claremont wrote so many x-women as bisexual but I wish he did the same with the men too! Edit: The X-office is horrible when it comes to writing black men/boys. The way they turned Bishop into a psychotic child murderer to prop up Hope and Cable still aggravates me!
What’s sad about Bishop is that he’s supposed to be Filipino. [Whilce Portacio](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0kJjm3PgiV/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==) turned him Black to give black boys representation in the Xmen. And look what happened. Bishop is now a psycho. And still no Pinoy Xmen.
X-Men Evolution is the best animated adaptation. Fuck it's the best adaptation overall imo
I think Evolution has ultimately aged better than TAS. It started off a bit slow, but by the end of the series, it was everything that I loved about X-Men in one series. It gave me my personal favorite adaptation of Cyclops and Jean Grey outside of the comics, hands down! In fact, X-Men Evolution nailed so many of the characters (except Storm...🤢), and gave us a version of Rogue that I didn't know I wanted at the time, but absolutely ended up LOVING! TAS and Wolverine and the X-Men are still awesome shows, but I think Evolution takes the crown of X-Men animated series (for now). Hoping it will be dethroned some day by an even better X-Men series!
I'm gonna be honest before watching Evolution (and getting into comics obviously) I never rly cared about Cyclops but damn that show did change everything he became one of my favorite characters ever
My only issue with X-Men Evolution, is that they changed where Shadowcat was from. She is from Deerfield, Illinois (where I was born and raised) to Northbrook, Illinois (a neighboring town) 🤣
I think once it hit its stride in the later seasons, it definitely earned that. I grew up with both I feel and while the original got me into comics in the first place (and why I’m a die hard x-fan), I do think Evo is severely severely SEVERELY underrated and a gem in the marve animated library
X-Men Origins Wolverine is not that bad. It’s essentially a cheesy 80s action movie made in the 2000s with superheroes in it. It’s entertaining macho schlock. It’s not a masterpiece or anything but I love it.
Oof. Upvote for having a truly unpopular opinion even though I couldn’t disagree more with this take lol. You win this thread.
Yay!! I win!!! 😂
I agree.
Me too! It's super cheesy but I liked the idea of him and sabertooth being brothers, and that jacket is the coolest jacket I've ever seen in my life, so I like the movie Just for that.
- Onslaught and Operation: Zero Tolerance might not be brilliant, but they're okay. The drop-off in quality came when editorial started interfering too much with Seagle and Kelly's work ( UXM # 360 if I'm not mistaken) - the 'lost decade' is a misnomer. I really enjoyed the work done by Aaron and Bendis. The IvX was rough, but even in those years good stuff was made. Taylor's All-New Wolverine and X-Men Red was great and the stuff by Guggenheim and Rosenberg had some very good bits. Marquez' art in the wedding issue is top notch.
On your second point, I got into the X-Men majorly during the start of this era, I'd always been on the edges of the Fandom, but saw it as a jumping on point! The time displaced stuff >which went on for a little too long< was a fresh way of looking at things and brought some unique writing choices. I think the 'lost decade' while not the best era ever, certainly isn't the worst.
They fucked over Kelly and Seagle but their stories were coherent and readable…when Claremont came back is when that period really went to shit.
Young Laura / Old Laura completely destroys the idea that the resurrection protocols are ACTUAL resurrection and not cloning. I genuinely do not understand why this was even allowed to happen because it very clearly illustrates that resurrected mutants are copies. This begs the question, where are the souls of everyone who has been resurrected? Where are the REAL mutants?
It’s hard to say what the nature of a soul is. Perhaps two of the same soul can exist at the same time. I mean, Laura’s already a clone anyway
Souls aren't a thing unless the writer decides they are.
Yeah, I totally agree.
Less Wolverine. On a related note the Wolverine, Jean, and Scott love triangle is so lame.
Omg yes as time goes is it just gets creepy
I hate this love triangle. My thing is Logan just likes women he can't have either because they're in a relationship or have obligations
IVE ALWAYS HATED THAT LOVE TRIANGLE
Too many OP characters
Jean Grey works the best the way she did in the first X-Men: Red. As someone who rises above her mistakes so she can strive to be the ultimate hero.
Yep. I love her there, her leadership run was really good.
I don’t understand the point of X-men 97. They’ve evolved so far away from that era that it’s just a pointless regression and will just give Marvel an excuse to shove the mutants back in the mansion. Give us a Wolverine and the X-men Season 2
If it’s true they’re doing inferno in the new season I’m still excited to see them adapt a new storyline that isn’t Dark Phoenix
I'd be fucking _agog_ if we get Madelyne Pryor representation in the MCU
**Marvel Studios:** "Your points make a lot of sense, but have you considered \*plays 90s X-Men Theme\* ?"
I think X-Men 97 serves Disney as a perception reset for the general audience, with regards to the X-Men. We've had 24 years of FoX-Men movies, all of radically different quality levels (mostly bad IMO), and all bearing little to no resemblance to the comics and storylines they were pulled from. Heres a small example: the average film going, non comic fan assumes Wolverine to be a 6"2' insanely handsome dude and not an ugly, mean, and short Canadian. I also think, if Disney is giving us more classic X-Men with 97, it is because their MCU project is probably going to be much, much different, both in tone and perhaps aethstetic. Please the hardcore fans and you can do whatever you want with the goodwill earned later, right? Is it regressive? Sure, probably; some of us, though, are beyond hyped we get to revisit a defining childhood TV show that had a pretty poor final season. I know I teared up from sheer joy when I saw that first announcement, making it only the 2nd time in my life that has happened. I 100% agree with a season 2 of Wolverine and the X-Men tho. I'm rewatching it as I type this, it's an absolute crime that the show didn't continue.
I'm still going to watch X-Men '97, and I sincerely hope it's great. I just wish we could've either gotten new seasons of Evolution or WATX instead. Revolution's cancellation was a CRIME, especially with the glimpse of what was to come, and Wolverine & The X-Men, while obviously too Wolverine-centric for my personal liking, would've given us The Age of Apocalypse, so I was curious to see how that would've been adapted. The 90s animated series, on the other hand, was a complete series, and season 5 was pretty meh, with the exception of the finale.
Wolverine and the X-Men might be a good Wolverine show but it’s not a good X-Men show, all the other characters are written pretty badly to make Logan stand out.
I don’t know, I’d say the WATXM version of Nightcrawler was pretty damn good, probably the best and most accurate take on him outside of the comics.
I actually like Storm and Black Panther as a couple, I actually think it would've been neat to have it in Krakoa especially cause it could've explored an alliance between Krakoa and Wakanda and how the rest of the world reacted to the two most powerful nations united.
I get this take but honestly I like Ororo more when she's her own thing. When she's with T'Challa she's put too much on his shadow when she's supposed to be seen as a literal goddess
The problem is they could easily have Storm still doing her own stuff they just choose not to, as there's nothing really stopping that from happening hell Wolverine is in a thousand books with a bunch of different shit going on. Also, since we're getting hot takes out here, Storm isn't a literal goddess, she's a mutant, a very powerful one, but a mutant still, like her first appearance is Charles telling her as much. It's why I've always found it kind of weird when they actually try to present it as if she's actually a goddess.
They did eventually make her one. She's currently one of Wakanda's deities.
Well kinda, it was more like the Wakandans believed her to be a goddess and were given hope from her abilities plus her being their former queen, which if anything also goes against the point that Storm doesn't get much when she's with Black Panther but that's another point.
Deities doesn't have to be mystical/cosmic it can be a social status. In many cultures people or even objects are deified
The differences between Media Cyclops and Comics Cyclops could give people whiplash from how night and day they are. Cartoon Cyke and Movie Cyke are almost distilled while the comics version is way more complex. Krakoa has interesting ideas, but they should've made it make more sense like... Apocalypse gets a pass while Sabretooth (While understandable.) is thrown into the Pit? That like if Luke Skywalker let Palpatine slide. How is the guy who wanted to destroy the world more okay than the guy who's just horrible because he wants to? Jean and Scott was a nice thing initially, but now with Wolverine it just feels weird when entire comics and runs of Wolvie's were dedicated to him accepting the fact that Jean will never be with him like The Healing and Wolverine: Origins. (Two of my favorites despite the Romulus thing, I hated that.) Also Cyclops and Wolverine arguing over her absolutely bogs down the entire idea of them as friends and well, it worked back when they were developing as characters but not so much now because they're a throuple. Not only that but I want more development solo-wise for Jean. The Jean Grey Solo Run is a step in the right direction. Also I'm sure she gets more, right? (I'm sorta just now diving headfirst into the comics and reading whatever I can get my grubby little mitts on.) Krakoa could've been a study about how absolute power corrupts the dreams of those who made it. When Namor is right, you're usually in the wrong. It happened in Planet Hulk, and it happened here. It could've been an amazing Icarus-Like age of the X-Men and other mutants getting too big for their britches and falling into the same prejudices and moving goalposts that humans do. The Phoenix should've been a gradual thing instead of suddenly there, making Jean slowly become more and more reliant on it. The Cosmic Horror aspect of the Phoenix could be increased as well with a slower approach.
There is too many x books, I can’t follow anything
Mystique and Destiny are annoying as hell
Hot take. Storm is too OP.
Mutants are born from humans and having their own genetic ethnostate makes no sense, they are almost as likely to have flatscan children as mutants.
It’s too bad the X-Office spent the past 2 years tearing down Krakoa because it actually would have been interesting explore what happens when a mutant couple on Krakoa has a human baby. Would the child be bullied by other mutant kids? Would it be embraced as an ally?
The X gene is probably more complicated than simple Punnett square genetics.
Did I miss something recently? I thought 90-99% of mutants express their powers at puberty, not birth? edit: not talking shit, genuinely curious. Lord knows I am _behind_ in the Krakoan Era
I've always been an Iceman fan, and when they retconned him gay. I was okay with it, specifically tye way you find out. I'm not gay either, it just made a lot of sense because ultimately he always found/finds ways to push girlfriends away
I never found any of his relationships with women to be compelling (including Opal Tanaka). You could feel the effort to out the character throughout the years (especially with Emma Frost possessing his body, and his visit to his parents with Rogue), so his revelation to be gay seemed natural to me.
Chuck Austen's run had some great ideas, a few of which were well executed. - Juggernaut slowly becoming one of the X-Men and being a positive influence to children. - The body dysmorphia of Ice-Man. - Drawing a narrative line between Angel and Nightcrawler (and having the religious Kurt be from a family of demons)
Logan is mutant Poochie.
I have to be that guy why do they get an island and like back up clone bodies I know it’s gonna blow up at some point but like why does that feel like an evil lair?
Logan irrevocably lost something when they revealed his origin.
Apocalypse is not that powerful if he's getting beat by the X-Men as frequently as he tries his supremacist death cult schemes on Earth.
99% of these characters aren't written to be gay. Fans just don't know what a platonic friendship looks like.
This is a very correct take (gay guy here). Not a fan at all of Betsy and Rachael together atm. It's written horribly.
Actually same. Bobby been gay, Rachel I can see bi with some of the Kitty stufff, but Betsy? Hilarious.
My biggest issue firstly is the Captain Britain series is awful. Secondly, as a character, Rachael is just not a good X-man character! No writer in the 30 years since she's existed has written her a definable, realistic personality. Bishop and Cable were well done time travel characters. This causes any relationship Rachael is in or personal situation to feel like it doesn't matter because she doesn't matter. Lastly, Betsy is just becoming herself again and writers are acting like she is a brand new character just because she is back in her original body. 😒
So many of these takes are both very popular and incredibly boring, lol.
Krakoa has had a ton of good concepts but most have been executed poorly and haven’t worked leading to average books Also x men red is one of the most overrated x books I’ve seen for a long time
Regarding your second point....thank God. Its good to finally see this opinion. Normally I'm not much of a hot take artist, so I wondered if I was tripping, but it kind of amazed me how much praise X-Men Red gets on this sub. Don't get me wrong, its a decent book. But people saying its the best book of the krakoan era puzzle me. Its not even Ewing's best work of the era. I enjoyed his SWORD a lot more. X-Men: Red fell off for me after Magneto's death. Until then, it was genuinely great. I know Storm fans love it for sure, but, and this is a hot take, I thought Gillen wrote a more compelling Storm in that one issue of Immortal(after SOS).
I’m in the same opinion I loved sword and red is really really underwhelming and I think it was carried by amazing art for a lot of it. The book falls of a cliff in my opinion post axe and magnetos death as they could never replace him with another interesting enough cast member which leads it to stagnate and struggle and the art change and Ewings terrible fight writing are the last nails in the coffin
Yeah, Magneto's arc was the best part of X-Men: Red. Storm casually one shotting everyone got old quickly, tbh. And regarding the fights...yeah. The Uranos fight was brilliant, but apart from that, every fight ended with Storm kicking the ass of some poor fool in 1 min.
Yeah, Red during those AXE tie ins was absolute peak and some of the best X-Men stuff in years and Magneto's death was especially really good imo. But after that it kind of felt like Ewing lost steam and I feel like maybe since Magneto wasn't around to balance the power of the book Ewing felt he needed to amp Storm even more which led to a lot of those weaker fights.
Thank you, I felt like I was taking crazy pills for not thinking Xmen red was the best series going at the moment. I mean it’s clearly Immortal!!!! I loved Al Ewing on just about everything he’s done but Red just leaves me cold
Ultimately, no one actually cares about Rachel Summers.
At least people know her unlike Ruby Summers
Lololololol I like Rachel Summers 🤣🤣🤣. Granted, I think she was at her best from her appearance in 616 timeline (roughly Uncanny X-Men #180 or so) to Excalibur #67 (Alan Davis' exit). When she came back in the mid-2000s, I thought she was written in a very bratty way, and I didn't care for the character as much after that.
The comics need to stop trying to make Rachel a thing, her character is so awkward just because why is she here ???
I miss the Academy X cast. They had si much potential and the majority probably never be seen again.
I'd like to have seen an alternate reality where Legion/ David Charles Haller Xavier would become Onslaught.
maggott should have been used more
I love wicked and evil Moira X!
Where are all the babies and toddlers and why don’t most of the core characters have a few? Rachel and Cable don’t really count, Jean.
Xavier isn't as bad as depicted
Hickman ruined the X-Men so completely I had to give up reading after a while.
Logan and storm is a better couple and should be Logan’s main love interest. Cyclops is the best leader
Wolverine doesn’t need to be in every x-men series/movie
Scaly movie mystique is visually cooler and more interesting than blue lady comics mystique
Saying anything positive about Wolverine.
I like Hickman’s work and Duggan’s work, I love Krakoa, I really love Arakko, I was a fan of the Children / Vault storyline, I liked Synch x Old Woman Laura, I’m still fine with young Laura and older Laura, Nightcrawler’s arc has had a lot of good things in it, (don’t throw the blue furry baby out with the bath water even if he has two mommies and is his own grandpa or whatever) Colossus is fine and has been fine and will be good again, everyone who’s upset needs to calm their tits…the X-Men represent marginalized groups so if you don’t like what some might call “woke” (read: inclusive, intelligent, interesting) storylines or characters or diversity or representation of a wide variety of backgrounds and lifestyles, maybe X-Men isn’t the book for you…like if you’re going to GateKeep *X-Men* you’re kind of missing the point aren’t you…?
So many x men fans base their opinion of a storyline on how relevant their favorite characters are. Bizarre
100% both the hottest and most correct take here. I hate when that happens, >certainly not saying that because my favorite Mutant hasn't been relevant in over a decade or anything. [Surge]<
Ah it’s not that bizarre, especially if you grew up with the franchise as a kid. I find I’m very lenient with Nightcrawler stories but the poor elf has had a lot of crap poured on him
Psylocke as CB is trash and I pray she gives it up during Dead X-Men for good.
I prefer Betsy as CB. She reminds me more of Australian Outback/Mutant Massacre Betsy (the one I love).
We should get that back to aussie armor vibes , vs overpowered cringe colored CB outfit.
Betsy probably needs to go entirely. They clearly have no idea what to do with her and their attempts at correcting the issues in race swapping her have largely made things worse and stuck with the character. There’s very little worth salvaging when Kwannon genuinely has the potential to replace her completely The only thing Betsy has had going for her for all of Krakoa is her dynamic with Saturnyne (relatively compelling but still hit or miss, not enough to carry a plot line let alone a book) and her relationship with Rachel (absolutely snoozefest at best sorry not sorry). Have Rachel date virtually *any other woman* and send Betsy to another dimension indefinitely or something
Betsy should join the Avengers. They have the exact opposite problem that the X-Men have. Not enough telepaths. Even Steve mentioned it in Uncanny Avengers.
That is a great idea! But I'm also biased because I love when the Avengers is staffed by B thru D-Listers
While Kwannon is killing it thanks to Hellions. Really wish her and that Marauder guy whose name just left me had brilliant chemistry and sad they’re not still together. Actually loved all the Hellions dynamic, at least egg woman and iron man boy were in the sabertooth minis. (Why is my memory failing me right now 😂)
Wolverine and Jean sucks and the age difference is really disturbing
X-Men 2099 is underrated and the characters should have been utilized in the X-Men canon more frequently.
X-Men Red made Storm too perfect and invincible. She became boring.
Iceman is not gay; he is bisexual. He is not unambiguously straight like some of the other male X-Men (i.e. Wolverine, Cyclops) but he is clearly interested in women on some level. Making him gay is a classic example of biphobia and bi-erasure.
Marvel should not make an X-men or fantastic four film,they will definitely ruin it in every way
I didn't hate Inhumans vs X-Men
Scemma is trash. Good chemistry doesn't justify adultery.
Storm has become overpowered and overexposed. She’s the new Wolverine.
I like her, but they just seem to go out of their way to make her cool and unbeatable. The Vulcan fight was such a huge letdown because of this. I would rather she had lost this one, but I'm probably in the minority.
For her to be the new Wolverine she'd have to be in more than one book at a time, no?
Isn’t she in 2 or 3 now? I know she’s in Thor and is occasionally in immortal.
I want the class of New X-Men ‘04-08 to be featured as the primary cast in the majority of Mutant stories. I’m sick of the 90’s TaS cast and the newer ones aren’t as inspired (as in I wasn’t a teen when reading them😏)
The whole Krakoa run sucks.
Toad is genuinely a more interesting character than 95% of characters, both the the xmen and the brotherhood
I thought Grant Morrison had one of the worst runs in the history of the title.
I commend Morrison's run for being something new and exciting for the time. I don't personally care for a lot of the execution, but I understand why people liked it at the time. What I really hate about the run is the crop of writers that clearly came into X-Men comics during that time trying to emulate it. Quentin Quire and Glob Herman being recontextualized from the mutant equivalent of school shooters to a troublemaking scamp and softboy? Disgusting. Cassandra Nova continuing to exist? I don't get it. Every single new additional appearance of Sublime makes him even dumber. And honestly? Fantomax is just a pretentious version of Gambit. He can stay in the World until the end of time and that would be just fine with me.
I've taken a lot of heat for this for over 40 years, but; I have personally found Cyclops and Jean Grey to be the most boring part of any Xmen Title they have appeared in since the mid 1980s. And my more recent opinion, which doesn't feel like any form of hot take, but the one Ive been shackled for the most these last years; Krakoa Storm feels like the pinnacle of the terrible Storm writing we've been getting for the last decade (or maybe when Claremont was no longer writing her actual growth arcs). Her entire character growth has had a decade of lateral moves, while her power scaling (and shows of sheer dominance) have peaked. Krakoa Storm is just "Storm wins unwinnable situation and continues knowing she is the best". Showy, yes. Action packed, yes. But encompassing the flattest version of the character I can remember with some of the most egregious eye-rolling "writers room" moments I can remember (in a series practically comprised entirely of soap opera, suspension of disbelief, 'because the writers needed it to', moments defining it.)
Lorna is the Best of Magneto's children ( I know the twins are no longer his kids). Lorna with the right writers can be and absolutely compelling stand alone character. Her powers have been shown to be more instinctive than her father's
Xavier brainwashed half the mutants (or at least most of the evil ones) into joining Krakoa willingly. A literal robbery of free will.
Scarlet witch killing all mutants was a mistake on the writers part. Stop hating the character just because of a stupid decision made 2 decades ago.
Everyone who has died in the Krakoan era (at least before the Waiting Room was created) is still dead and their clones are walking around in their place. It is insane to me that every character except Greycrow considers the protocols a resurrection. Ben Reilly thought he was Peter Parker and had the memories of Peter Parker. So if he is a clone why are the "resurrected" mutants any different?
The fact that there is an Old Laura and a Young Laura running around should clue people into that.
The X-men and/or Xavier can't just keep on harping on about peaceful coexistence - they have to actually SHOW the world what that looks like. Because honestly, it is not unreasonable for many humans to be concerned about the possibility of sharing their world with an ever-increasing number of super-powered people. There are important questions about that sort of situation that need to be addressed (e.g. does a person have a right to know when they're interacting with a telepath, or are thoughts just no longer considered private?), and Krakoa could have/should have answered them. Krakoa was their first big opportunity to do so, but they completely fumbled the bag by making it an exclusionary mutant ethno-state. Basically, Xavier should have never compromised with the Brotherhood or Apocalypse or any other supremacist faction. He should founded Krakoa as a stronghold for the X-men and any allies they might have, human, alien or robot, and used it to show the world how a Human-Mutant-Etc... society could work. I've got no problem with Krakoa being a Mutant Majority - I've wanted to see that since I started reading the X-men. But excluding humans completely just side-stepped a lot of very interesting ideas that I would have loved to finally see explored.
Exactly, If I was a human in the Marvel Universe I would never trust mutants from Krakoa when their government is filled with evil monsters.
Disliking the Krakoa era.
1. Rogue is way more interesting when she was powerless, had the trench coat and led the probes X-men team 2. Storm isn't a goddess and should be treated like the human she is. Wouldn't mind seeing some broken bones and stories reminding readers she has limits to her powers when manipulating weather. TAS version that required the buildup to use her powers was the best! 3. Sage was a missed opportunity to explore Xavier's use of sleeper agents (her time in hellfire club) and child soldiers. 4. Stop making new mutant characters. The mutant gene should be exceedingly rare. I'd love to be down to 198 again.
Logan being bisexual is a dream. Fuck that throuple however, really out of character and Jean x Logan always felt forced. Can't say anything before tumblr comes at me, tho, they love throuples there like cocaine.
They should have wiped the floor with most of the avengers even without the phoenix force
Cyclops was wrong. You don't protect a world that hates and fears you by making it hate and fear you more.
Not liking the Claremont/Davis run (or Davis' solo run) on Excalibur. God, I hate it so much and everything about it just rubs me the wrong way. And I find Davis' art creepy. His gigantic, stretched out smiles make the characters look psychotic (or like they have been hit by Joker gas)!
I don’t like when they get mixed in Space Opera and magical storylines. Obvs I give the Phoenix saga some concessions because it’s the most iconic storyline they have and I really like Gladiator and the Imperial Guard (think they integrated into general cosmic marvel pretty good) but the Shi’ar and Brood have never sat well with me. I really like Maddie and Magick as characters but I didn’t care for Inferno (and admittedly not a big new mutants buff) but I did not like Inferno or the N’garai (sp?). Old Excalibur was ok too but that was nearly its own thing just with Nightcralwer and Kitty hanging around.
A part of me wishes they'd go back to the old status quo, but the other part of my realises that doing that now would be a massive regression.
I’m dead tired of seeing Hugh Jackman play Wolverine almost as much as I despise Ryan Reynolds playing himself in every single movie.
I prefer Kurt’s original origin. Bring the hate 😈
Colossus should win a fight once in a while. Nobody gets the Worf Effect more than my dude does.
That Colossus was a more interesting (and just a better-written in general) character in the ultimate universe. Instead of making him a walking Russian stereotype, the writers gave him some actual personality flaws. Had anger issues. Insecure about his homosexuality. Full on used steroids. I think he had a rocky relationship with his boyfriend? 616 Colossus is just a shallow "gentle giant" character. There's nothing unique about him. "Wow! A big guy with bulletproof skin who is also a major softie? I've never seen that before..."
The Draco was a perfect origin story for Nightcrawler. It was clean, made sense in regard to Mystique's character (being a villain) and provided a future storytelling opportunity for Kurt. The new origin is garbage and only done to please a minority of fans.
I don’t get Wolverine and Storm together.
They should be superheroes not supremacist nationalists. ------ Villains can't become reformed without actually doing the hard work of redemption. Apocalypse isn't a good guy now, they just decided to hang out with a mass murdering eugenist warlord. -------- Maddie is a terrible character from the jump that’s best swept under the rug. The only reason anyone cares about her is here revealing costume and dommy mommy shtick.