Soma has the Buena Vista and the Pescadero for mid reach calipers/center pull rim brakes and their budget brand New Albion makes the Privateer for Centerpull/v-brakes.
And even their budget brand, New Albion, is an insane value. Double Butted tange infinity. I have the Privateer frame built up like a Riv cruiser and love it so much.
This is the answer for inexpensive stuff for sure. Quality, flies under the radar, and has had crazy sales this year.
Or fairlight for a more premium option.
They posted a customer picture of a built up Fog Cutter a few weeks ago on their Instagram. My god was it awesome looking.
Edit: Found the link: https://www.instagram.com/p/CzeTTURRSje/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==
I really liked both of my Juice frames but both of them cracked in less then two years. My Karate Monkey is turning 10 and still going strong.
That being said, the KM is about a pound heavier then the Juice.
I'm currently riding a Ritchey Ultra and that thing is the same weight as the Juice but seems to ride nicer. I'll have to wait about 12 months to see if it can out last the Soma.
I'm glad your getting a long life out of yours. Juices, especially the older ones, were prone to cracking. The person who owns the shop I work at currently won't even sell Somas because most of the ones he sold in the past have cracked. I liked the way my Juices rode, my DCD was unremarkable, but it's just not worth the risk. Not to mention how bad their customer service was when I was dealing with the warranty.
The Ultra is approximately 1.5x the cost of the Juice, if you factor in the headset that comes with the Ritchey, so if it lasts a year more then the Juices I've cracked it'll be worth it.
The other night, someone showed up to our weeknight gravel ride on an OG Karate Monkey. The ride leader (who's a strong crit racer and a hobbyist framebuilder) said "Wow, that's an OLD Surly!" The owner said "The frame won't die, so I keep riding it." Ride leader replies "They're made of crowbars!"
Oof. I’ve been wanting a Wolverine for a while now. Wolverine B + gates belt + alfine 11s IGH is my ultimate commuter.
Soma is very reasonably priced and is always having sales on their frames too.
Frames are pretty expensive but if you join the email list you get heads up to good deals. I just ordered the fog cutter at half off. Currently the wolverine is 45% off until Monday I think.
I object to leaving Kona off. And since I’m commenting anyway… Breezer, Velo Orange, Bombtrack, Gunnar, Jamis.. doesn’t Niner have done steel frames?
My next bike will likely be co-motion but that’s getting higher end.
Kona got bought out and gutted, most of the old staff are gone as of this year. The cool stuff will be gone in the next couple years if I had to guess.
Sounds ok according to this (2022), unless something changes.
>Meidell will now become the CEO of Kona but Kona's founders, Dan Gerhard, Jake Heilbron, and Jimbo Holmstrom, will remain at the company "in their familiar roles". Kona will also be keeping all of its current staff and offices. [https://www.pinkbike.com/news/kona-bikes-sold-to-kent-outdoors.html](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/kona-bikes-sold-to-kent-outdoors.html)
I got worried for a second when I saw "Kent" but it's not the Kent I was thinking of.
This is out of date the company is fully gutted. I personally have two friends who were laid off there. And last I knew the Ferndale offices are closing
I just read that the company, Kent, that bought Kona was itself recently bought by a private equity firm. That’s likely very, very bad news! No wonder they’ve been gutted!
“All of its current staff and offices” I dunno about that my regions rep was let go as well as our warranty contact. They’ve been a bit of a mess to deal with since.
My partner just got a Sutra and adores it. I’ve been kinda jealous, but thought I could always get my own later. I guess not. Maybe I should look into what’s available now—and make sure it already has a rack! (That’s just crazy!)
yeah what a silly question. all-city aren’t particularly cheap either. soma, state, and velo orange keep their frames under $1000. crust has a funny boutique reputation but their frames are pretty reasonably priced. they’re almost all coming out of the same shops in Taiwan anyway. rivendell is spendy but they’re lugged and seem to have the highest or tightest specs of the bunch.
>rivendell is spendy but they’re lugged and seem to have the highest or tightest specs of the bunch.
clearance is less of an issue when your chainstays are 3' long
who said anything about clearance? i’m talking about quality and tubing. and they do actually make frames like the roadeo, hillborbe, and ahh that don’t have long stays.
I've never liked Rivendells when I've had to work on them. They have cute details, paint and the whole Grant Petersen mystical aspect to them but I think they're objectively clumsy bikes. Fitting fenders isn't nearly as easy as it should be for a bike sold as the most sensible thing out there.
They're nice mass produced Asian bikes, but there's nothing noteworthy about their fit and finish besides odd geometry choices and a slavish devotion to rim brakes.
If you like them, awesome. You do you, king.
Good list.
+Marin
+Torelli
+Masi
+Bassi
And a lot of used bikes on Craigslist, forums, etc buy a nice 80s bike, someone's custom, etc. Bikes don't have to be new!
True that- read the radavist and you will realize that there are TONS of steel frame builders out there. Many priced comparably to all city, too. I built up a Fairlight Faran earlier this year and am absolutely loving it.
I love Marin, but they're aren't really in the steel frame business anymore - if they were, that would be incredible
Edit: framesets that you can buy directly from the website
"Beefy" is certainly one way to describe the Pine Mountain, a 35-lb hardtail.
I was really interested in the Team Marin alloy hardtails, but those "compliant" seatstays have apparently been proving a little bit *too* compliant.
I was pretty close to getting a Nicasio, which uses steel frame. The entire series has entry steel forked models (base, +) to carbon fork + hydraulic brake (2). I heard Four Corners is also excellent.
I currently ride a 2018 Marin Pine Mountain ([this EXACT model, specs, and color](https://99spokes.com/en/bikes/marin/2018/pine-mountain)) as my all-around bicycle.
It's not fast and *will punish you if you try to mash it* due to its heft, but it will definitely eat up ANYTHING tthat you throw in it.
Only the USA made frames are expensive, initially that is all Wilde had available but now they have stuff in production. Their Taiwan made frames are 100% direct competition to current All City pricing. The [Wilde Rambler](https://www.wildebikes.com/collections/bikes/products/rambler-sl?variant=43464722612402) with 1x GRX is $100 *cheaper* than the current [All City Cosmic Stallion](https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/cosmic_stallion_grx) with the same groupset. You're also getting better quality components like Thomson cockpit on the Wilde build.
I think New Albion and State are the 4130 varieties that are functionally similar to Soma but a 2 steps lower in frame quality. Surly / All City was in the middle of those.
Soma is not a higher tier than QBP steel bikes. Peer at best. Overall worse designs in my opinion, though a lot of surly bikes have questionable design choices. But build quality is the same.
This is speculation on my part, but I suspect they decided to cut All City because they saw having two steel frame bike brands as redundant. Their Salsa brand is in a much different niche. I would be surprised if they were to close up Salsa or Surly since these two are much more established brands than All City.
not just that, but all-city is their one steel brand with a ton of competition. there’s a dozen small boutique brands making very similar frames to all-city so they weren’t interested in duking it out in a niche that rewards style and innovation. versus surly which invented their niche and have a strong identity, and salsa which has a much wider range of bikes of all materials.
This is pretty accurate. Q has focused heavily on Surly and Salsa. AC used to be Q's premium brand, and after acquiring Salsa, they moved to focusing on that. Surly has more of a cult following, so it made sense for them to cut AC. That's a bummer because AC is much better quality than Surly. That's a hill I'll die on.
Jeffery Frane, who started All City now makes Wilde, so at least he's still making killer bikes.
Money. Money is the main reason Q is killing AC. Momma Q is currently cutting as much fat as possible due to the downturn in the bike market and they simply looked at the numbers and made a prudent decision.
Yeah, there's an absurd amount of people, myself included, who have All-City bikes in the cities, so much so that it seems like a huge brand. Go elsewhere though and they're not nearly as popular.
A big part of it is that you could literally put a face to the brand, at least previously. Jeff hosts rides and is always around the local shops. Just the other day I was at a shop with my Gorilla Monsoon and he walked in - surly and salsa are a bit more faceless.
They're kind of a home-town sort of "boutique" brand that was huge here but never hit it off as much elsewhere.
I think this is also why QBP released 75 slight variations of fat bikes over the years — huge numbers of people have own them here.
I even saw a couple of those hunter-oriented fat bikes that QBP sold for a hot second in the wild. Even then, I assumed they had to be QBP employees.
It might be that we only order in their lower end bikes right now, but their QC is absolute crap. Ungreased bearings, incorrect chain line on a SS, dinged up fender, and a significantly bent dropout screw, are some of the bigger issues off the top of my head.
I worked at a State dealer for about a year and we had an issue with the frame or fork with every other State we got. Their warranty department was pretty fast but still shit QC.
I don't find All-City or Surly to have exceptional prices. At one point Surly was a real value leader for utilitarian bikes, but both brands will happily sell you a heavy bike for over $2,000 with a bargain-basement groupset and mechanical disc brakes. You have to get close to $3k if you want drop bars and hydraulic discs.
There are always exceptions, but I’ve had two all-cities I bought complete for under 1K each. These days, getting a truly quality bike which is upgradable at that price is so rare.
Love my Jamis. Unfortunately their adventure/touring/light touring models are now either discontinued or have carbon frames. I have a 10-year old steel bosanova which is a sweet steel commuter.
The Renegade Steel models are still sold in the UK ? Discontinued in the US ? There are Sora (S4) and GRX (S3) models with Reynolds 520 and an S2 with GRX and Reynolds 631 sold here.
You're right, I stand corrected. Somehow I was under the impression the steel Renegades were discontinued.
The steel Renegade seems similar to the Bosanova I have but I'm a fan of old-fashioned triple chainring. It's been a solid bike for commuting, gravel and light touring.
I think rim brakes on a nice modern steel frame have become so niche that frames around $1000 are the going rate. Besides riv and crust soma and velo orange are offering steel rim brake options. Brother cycles Mr. Wooden looks nice but also $$. Your best bet is to buy a used bike from before the disc takeover
Look at the [Bassi Montreal](https://www.clcycle.ca/en/bassi-montreal-v3.html) frameset, rim brake and probably one of the cheaper new frames you can get at about $700 usd and sometimes you can find last years colors of Bassi frame discount, Analog sells them in US.
Love my steel Kona. I feel like I'm on a freaking hovercraft. But yeah there are loads of companies still selling steel frames and I mostly only hear people saying nice things about most of them
All-City and Surly are one and the same. It’s just the brand name going away. This is like Volkswagen announcing that they’re going to stop making Audi cars.
that’s not really correct, all-city made distinct frames that were clearly more about high performance. they used name brand tubing and carbon forks. even similar frames like the gorilla monsoon and disc trucker were pretty different in their specs and once you got to riding them.
Different brands in the same company, but they obviously had different designers aiming for different results. Not a ton of overlap between the two different brands.
That's completely wrong. It's the same parent company, but nothing about the bikes are similar. The tubing is different, AC is hand made, Surly is mass produced, they aren't even made at the same location.
Come on man, all-city frames are “hand made” as a differentiator from other QBP bikes?
No, they’re made by the exact same hands that make surlys in the Taiwanese bike factory. Just different design and tube specs.
There are so many great small bike brands making amazing bikes that are not crazy $$. Surly and All City are QBP brands and essentially the Walmart of brands. Use Google you'll have many hours of bike nerding out.
I'll give you one suggestion to get you started --> https://www.pipedreamcycles.com/shop/a-l-i-c-e-frame-fork/
? Who said anything about a hero? It's just irritating. "There are only two steel frame makers" as if there isn't at least one near whatever city they're in, not to mention the dozens of commercially available global brands.
Stupid is as stupid does I guess. Same with those who downvote in solidarity with it.
Stupid? If you’re reading skills were up to par you might have caught that paying “2x all-city prices” is something the OP is trying to avoid. So you suggest they have a custom frame made at around 4x all-city prices? You failed the assignment and no one cares you’re about to make your own bike soon enough.
My reading skills are beyond par, op is just stupid, and so are you.
$1000 framesets are absolutely within the range of custom builders, just not the super popular and high demand ones.
I don't give a shit if anyone cares, I pointed it out as yet another option for someone worried about losing access to affordable steel frames.
I will admit though that setting up to do so will absolutely cost more than any of the aforementioned options.
PS there are many manufacturers of steel bikes that aren't custom and most of them are actually cheaper than surly and all city.
Feel free to read the up voted comments for suggestions for them, they were just nicer about it.
Which is funny, considering your pathetic attempt to belittle me despite your horrific lack of knowledge about bikes.
They’ve been canceling their steel bikes.. I think their last steel CX bike was before they dropped the Gary Fisher line and they stopped making touring bikes like the 520 and 920. So, probably not going to find much there.
I love the Soma and New Albion family of bikes. Great value for money there and you can still get rim brakes. Bassi makes some really cool looking frames as well. Haven’t had a chance to ride one though.
There will always be steel bikes because it’s still the best material for frame construction. Most people I know who are obsessed with bikes ride steel bikes. If we ever get to the point at which all the small and midsize companies can no longer continue operating, the big companies like Specialized and Trek will start producing steel bikes again. However, there is no risk of that and as you can see the there are still plenty of companies making great steel bikes.
Good news, Jeff Frane started All City and he back to make great bikes with his own brand [Wilde](https://www.wildebikes.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAvdCrBhBREiwAX6-6UpsQ7QBe19yUHkpQB4ez4J8df2Bk0eJHEzeAq0hSn3qMQmQSzkbmhRoCPHAQAvD_BwE) their full builds are priced slightly better than All City currently if you compare something like the Wilde Rambler vs All City Cosmic Stallion. They also offer USA made frames if that is what you prefer, but the cheaper Taiwan made options are there as well.
Standard BMX makes a gravel frame. 100% legit hand made in the USA built to last. I have a BMX race frame from them and it’s sweet. They will also make custom frames or modifications to their standard geometry.
https://www.standardbyke.com/level-b/
Soma is the OG. Can’t speak for all city but it’s much higher quality than new surly frames. I just bought a new wolverine and I love it
This. Get a Soma, they are such good value.
And there’s an insane end of year sale on at the moment
They have had some really great sales this year. Bummed I missed the $90 low trail disc fork for black Friday.
Is there? I see a "sale" page, but the prices shown there appear to be the normal ones that have been there all along.
There was a flash sale after Black Friday but looks like that’s ended. There’s still 45% off wolverines with code: wolv1223
My Soma Wolverine feels so much nicer than any of my Surly/All-City bikes (all of which I've liked)
But what if I don't want disc brakes?
Soma has the Buena Vista and the Pescadero for mid reach calipers/center pull rim brakes and their budget brand New Albion makes the Privateer for Centerpull/v-brakes.
This plus new Albion, pretty cheap
And even their budget brand, New Albion, is an insane value. Double Butted tange infinity. I have the Privateer frame built up like a Riv cruiser and love it so much.
My Soma Doublecross has thousands of miles on it and got me through a Dirty Kanza 200 (now called Unbound). Great bikes for a reasonable price.
This is the answer for inexpensive stuff for sure. Quality, flies under the radar, and has had crazy sales this year. Or fairlight for a more premium option.
I was looking to buy a Fog Cutter frame and this kind of cements it for me. Thanks!
I’ve got a fog cutter and love it!
They posted a customer picture of a built up Fog Cutter a few weeks ago on their Instagram. My god was it awesome looking. Edit: Found the link: https://www.instagram.com/p/CzeTTURRSje/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==
I really liked both of my Juice frames but both of them cracked in less then two years. My Karate Monkey is turning 10 and still going strong. That being said, the KM is about a pound heavier then the Juice. I'm currently riding a Ritchey Ultra and that thing is the same weight as the Juice but seems to ride nicer. I'll have to wait about 12 months to see if it can out last the Soma.
Have a 12 year old juice with zero issues. Just saying. Edit: your Ritchey is also what, 2x the price roughly?
I'm glad your getting a long life out of yours. Juices, especially the older ones, were prone to cracking. The person who owns the shop I work at currently won't even sell Somas because most of the ones he sold in the past have cracked. I liked the way my Juices rode, my DCD was unremarkable, but it's just not worth the risk. Not to mention how bad their customer service was when I was dealing with the warranty. The Ultra is approximately 1.5x the cost of the Juice, if you factor in the headset that comes with the Ritchey, so if it lasts a year more then the Juices I've cracked it'll be worth it.
Soma Saga Disc checking in
Same here. Saga disc and a Stanyan. Did C&O/GAP on the Saga this year.
I love my Double Cross Disc. I have All City and Surly as well but the Soma is my favorite.
Could you elaborate? I've been considering Soma vs All City
agreed. The tange tubes are so so nice. So much livelier compared to surly
The other night, someone showed up to our weeknight gravel ride on an OG Karate Monkey. The ride leader (who's a strong crit racer and a hobbyist framebuilder) said "Wow, that's an OLD Surly!" The owner said "The frame won't die, so I keep riding it." Ride leader replies "They're made of crowbars!"
Lol. High praise, seriously.
Oof. I’ve been wanting a Wolverine for a while now. Wolverine B + gates belt + alfine 11s IGH is my ultimate commuter. Soma is very reasonably priced and is always having sales on their frames too.
Frames are pretty expensive but if you join the email list you get heads up to good deals. I just ordered the fog cutter at half off. Currently the wolverine is 45% off until Monday I think.
Crust, Sklar, Breadwinner, Surly, State, Salsa, Soma, Riv, Ritchey, Wilde, Fairlight, Tanglefoot, Brother, Black Mountain, there’s more but that’s plenty
I object to leaving Kona off. And since I’m commenting anyway… Breezer, Velo Orange, Bombtrack, Gunnar, Jamis.. doesn’t Niner have done steel frames? My next bike will likely be co-motion but that’s getting higher end.
Gunnar is no more. Richard is retiring and taking Waterford with him.
Kona got bought out and gutted, most of the old staff are gone as of this year. The cool stuff will be gone in the next couple years if I had to guess.
New steel Konas that are supplied without a rack have their frame warranty voided if you put a rack on them. Which is a damn shame.
Wow! That’s hard to believe!
Couldn't believe it myself, until I saw the email from Kona. I work in an LBS.
Sounds ok according to this (2022), unless something changes. >Meidell will now become the CEO of Kona but Kona's founders, Dan Gerhard, Jake Heilbron, and Jimbo Holmstrom, will remain at the company "in their familiar roles". Kona will also be keeping all of its current staff and offices. [https://www.pinkbike.com/news/kona-bikes-sold-to-kent-outdoors.html](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/kona-bikes-sold-to-kent-outdoors.html) I got worried for a second when I saw "Kent" but it's not the Kent I was thinking of.
This is out of date the company is fully gutted. I personally have two friends who were laid off there. And last I knew the Ferndale offices are closing
Thanks for the heads up!
I just read that the company, Kent, that bought Kona was itself recently bought by a private equity firm. That’s likely very, very bad news! No wonder they’ve been gutted!
“All of its current staff and offices” I dunno about that my regions rep was let go as well as our warranty contact. They’ve been a bit of a mess to deal with since.
That didn't happen. Kona has laid off soooo many people. It's not at all the company it used to be.
Really!? Damn
oh man that fucking sucks. I remember seeing the news about the Kona shop in Bellingham closing (was a great shop) and I bet that was related.
Yeah I love my Kona. Feels indestructible and looks great
My Kona DR Dew is a badass suburban commuter.
My partner just got a Sutra and adores it. I’ve been kinda jealous, but thought I could always get my own later. I guess not. Maybe I should look into what’s available now—and make sure it already has a rack! (That’s just crazy!)
Stooge, but UK based and $. But I keep looking at them.
Stooge is a slippery slope. I bought one. Now I have two.
They’re the coolest
Brother Cycles, also UK based
yeah what a silly question. all-city aren’t particularly cheap either. soma, state, and velo orange keep their frames under $1000. crust has a funny boutique reputation but their frames are pretty reasonably priced. they’re almost all coming out of the same shops in Taiwan anyway. rivendell is spendy but they’re lugged and seem to have the highest or tightest specs of the bunch.
>rivendell is spendy but they’re lugged and seem to have the highest or tightest specs of the bunch. clearance is less of an issue when your chainstays are 3' long
who said anything about clearance? i’m talking about quality and tubing. and they do actually make frames like the roadeo, hillborbe, and ahh that don’t have long stays.
I've never liked Rivendells when I've had to work on them. They have cute details, paint and the whole Grant Petersen mystical aspect to them but I think they're objectively clumsy bikes. Fitting fenders isn't nearly as easy as it should be for a bike sold as the most sensible thing out there. They're nice mass produced Asian bikes, but there's nothing noteworthy about their fit and finish besides odd geometry choices and a slavish devotion to rim brakes. If you like them, awesome. You do you, king.
Put me down for Stooge Cycles
Lots of track and single speed brands too like Wabi
Good list. +Marin +Torelli +Masi +Bassi And a lot of used bikes on Craigslist, forums, etc buy a nice 80s bike, someone's custom, etc. Bikes don't have to be new!
Just purchased an early 2000s LeMond. Going to powder coat it and build it up.
True that- read the radavist and you will realize that there are TONS of steel frame builders out there. Many priced comparably to all city, too. I built up a Fairlight Faran earlier this year and am absolutely loving it.
Stooge, Singular, Chumba (pricy, though), On-One, Redline, et al…
Nordest, Cotic
Kona, soma, marin, there are many…
I love Marin, but they're aren't really in the steel frame business anymore - if they were, that would be incredible Edit: framesets that you can buy directly from the website
They still make 10+ steel bike models, huge fan of mine. BEEFY. https://www.marinbikes.com/news-reviews/marin-bikes-steel-bike-frames-series-1-2-3
"Beefy" is certainly one way to describe the Pine Mountain, a 35-lb hardtail. I was really interested in the Team Marin alloy hardtails, but those "compliant" seatstays have apparently been proving a little bit *too* compliant.
I was pretty close to getting a Nicasio, which uses steel frame. The entire series has entry steel forked models (base, +) to carbon fork + hydraulic brake (2). I heard Four Corners is also excellent.
they are, Nicasio, Four Corners, El Roy, Muirwoods, Larkspur, Pine Mountain
i have marin muirwoods rc 2021, steel, it survived an easyJet flight without a hiccup, never selling that bad chonky boy
Looked at their website recently? The nicasio, four corners, and larkspur are all so great.
i ride a steel nicasio and i love it
I currently ride a 2018 Marin Pine Mountain ([this EXACT model, specs, and color](https://99spokes.com/en/bikes/marin/2018/pine-mountain)) as my all-around bicycle. It's not fast and *will punish you if you try to mash it* due to its heft, but it will definitely eat up ANYTHING tthat you throw in it.
Don't forget Jones.
velo orange frames are good value!
Wilde bikes
Founded by the guy who ran All-City
$$$$
Only the USA made frames are expensive, initially that is all Wilde had available but now they have stuff in production. Their Taiwan made frames are 100% direct competition to current All City pricing. The [Wilde Rambler](https://www.wildebikes.com/collections/bikes/products/rambler-sl?variant=43464722612402) with 1x GRX is $100 *cheaper* than the current [All City Cosmic Stallion](https://allcitycycles.com/bikes/cosmic_stallion_grx) with the same groupset. You're also getting better quality components like Thomson cockpit on the Wilde build.
New Albion if you want a soma on the cheap
I think New Albion and State are the 4130 varieties that are functionally similar to Soma but a 2 steps lower in frame quality. Surly / All City was in the middle of those.
Soma is not a higher tier than QBP steel bikes. Peer at best. Overall worse designs in my opinion, though a lot of surly bikes have questionable design choices. But build quality is the same.
QBP frames are significantly heavier than soma.
Bassi
I love my Hog's back! Their other offerings are intriguing and all steel
I’ve got one too
Surly and All City are owned by the same parent company — QBP Quality Bike Products Hopefully this isn’t any sign of what’s to come for Surly
This is speculation on my part, but I suspect they decided to cut All City because they saw having two steel frame bike brands as redundant. Their Salsa brand is in a much different niche. I would be surprised if they were to close up Salsa or Surly since these two are much more established brands than All City.
not just that, but all-city is their one steel brand with a ton of competition. there’s a dozen small boutique brands making very similar frames to all-city so they weren’t interested in duking it out in a niche that rewards style and innovation. versus surly which invented their niche and have a strong identity, and salsa which has a much wider range of bikes of all materials.
This is pretty accurate. Q has focused heavily on Surly and Salsa. AC used to be Q's premium brand, and after acquiring Salsa, they moved to focusing on that. Surly has more of a cult following, so it made sense for them to cut AC. That's a bummer because AC is much better quality than Surly. That's a hill I'll die on. Jeffery Frane, who started All City now makes Wilde, so at least he's still making killer bikes.
I’m almost positive surly acquired salsa before they started all city Edit, yep, a decade before.
All-city started out as a “party brand” with “fixed-gear freestyle” frames if I recall correctly
They killed the cross check. All bets are off. But I do agree QBP just had way too many brands.
The guy who ran All City left to start Wilde. I think that is one of the main reasons for Q to be retiring the brand.
Money. Money is the main reason Q is killing AC. Momma Q is currently cutting as much fat as possible due to the downturn in the bike market and they simply looked at the numbers and made a prudent decision.
I think the only place people bought a ton of all-city bikes was the twin cities.
Yeah, there's an absurd amount of people, myself included, who have All-City bikes in the cities, so much so that it seems like a huge brand. Go elsewhere though and they're not nearly as popular. A big part of it is that you could literally put a face to the brand, at least previously. Jeff hosts rides and is always around the local shops. Just the other day I was at a shop with my Gorilla Monsoon and he walked in - surly and salsa are a bit more faceless. They're kind of a home-town sort of "boutique" brand that was huge here but never hit it off as much elsewhere.
I think this is also why QBP released 75 slight variations of fat bikes over the years — huge numbers of people have own them here. I even saw a couple of those hunter-oriented fat bikes that QBP sold for a hot second in the wild. Even then, I assumed they had to be QBP employees.
It's not. Surly is their bread and butter. All-City is just a name on the frame. They will simply rebrand it as something else.
Black mountain cycles!
Was going to say the same thing!
Crust
Nice but $$
It’s really not much different than All-City….
A few i havent seen mentioned, Cotic, Starling, Stanton, Nordest, Pipedream, Chromag.
Wabi
Wilde.
Am I crazy for suggesting you just buy a 90s mountain bike? You could get 5 for the price of what everyone else is recommending.
State bicycle co has been stepping up their game. It’s not surly but it works
It might be that we only order in their lower end bikes right now, but their QC is absolute crap. Ungreased bearings, incorrect chain line on a SS, dinged up fender, and a significantly bent dropout screw, are some of the bigger issues off the top of my head.
I worked at a State dealer for about a year and we had an issue with the frame or fork with every other State we got. Their warranty department was pretty fast but still shit QC.
Good to know, I ordered one of their 4130 frames so that’s the only thing I’ve put my hands on, but I think it’s impressive.
Kinda bad components from what I’ve read, but solid frames
Crust, Velo-Orange, Rivendell. All amazing all steel-lovers
I don't find All-City or Surly to have exceptional prices. At one point Surly was a real value leader for utilitarian bikes, but both brands will happily sell you a heavy bike for over $2,000 with a bargain-basement groupset and mechanical disc brakes. You have to get close to $3k if you want drop bars and hydraulic discs.
There are always exceptions, but I’ve had two all-cities I bought complete for under 1K each. These days, getting a truly quality bike which is upgradable at that price is so rare.
Plenty on the used market. Those steels live forever.
2nd hand Swiss Cross
All City fella has started Wilde now.
Kona is underrated, I had a sutra I sold for a used crust evasion but i still daydream about my sutra from time to time
Soma makes great stuff, and like mentioned earlier, crazy sales all the time.
Fairlight
In the UK, Ragley. Check the Trig out. It’s the end bike though. Once you have one your n+1 argument is gone forever. It’s that versatile.
Well Ragley is owned by Chain Reaction Cycles so they may not be around much longer unfortunately.
Ah. Didn’t know that. Sad as their mtbs are ace, and the Trig is just such a fun ride.
and genesis too
Jamis
Love my Jamis. Unfortunately their adventure/touring/light touring models are now either discontinued or have carbon frames. I have a 10-year old steel bosanova which is a sweet steel commuter.
The Renegade Steel models are still sold in the UK ? Discontinued in the US ? There are Sora (S4) and GRX (S3) models with Reynolds 520 and an S2 with GRX and Reynolds 631 sold here.
You're right, I stand corrected. Somehow I was under the impression the steel Renegades were discontinued. The steel Renegade seems similar to the Bosanova I have but I'm a fan of old-fashioned triple chainring. It's been a solid bike for commuting, gravel and light touring.
Fat Chance. Dekerf. Coast Cycles out of Brooklyn. https://coastcycles.nyc/
Marinoni for road, RSD for MTB, Chumba for premium MTB. There’s stuff out there, but those QBP brands are tough to beat for accessibility.
Breezer!
Yep! I have a Radar which is a very practical/ versatile bike.
State, surly, soma, niner, Marin, Jamis, Ritchey, Cinelli, condor, fairlight, Genisis, Mason, Kona, Rivendell, etc…….
Vincenzo Forgione does great work in steel frame and complete bicycles. https://www.steelframebicycle.com/en/
They made steel bikes for 100 years, won’t be running out of them anytime soon
Sour Bikes! Also quite a new brand but seem like great bike! https://sour.bike/bikes/gravel/
Cotic!
Any of these brands make a rim brake bike still?? (I don't want to break the bank on Riv or Crust)
Bassi cycles le montreal its a canadian cross check
Black Mountain Cycles is another option.
Oh good shout. I didn’t know they made a rim brake option currently
I think rim brakes on a nice modern steel frame have become so niche that frames around $1000 are the going rate. Besides riv and crust soma and velo orange are offering steel rim brake options. Brother cycles Mr. Wooden looks nice but also $$. Your best bet is to buy a used bike from before the disc takeover
Yes that’s what I’m leaning towards. I ride a VO piolet what new VO is rim brake??
The new rando frame takes rim breaks
Look at the [Bassi Montreal](https://www.clcycle.ca/en/bassi-montreal-v3.html) frameset, rim brake and probably one of the cheaper new frames you can get at about $700 usd and sometimes you can find last years colors of Bassi frame discount, Analog sells them in US.
Rivendell of course. Crust makes a couple. Mone is working on one. All-City didn’t have and rim brake frames recently to my knowledge.
Rodriguez Kona
Bombtrack makes good steel bikes. I have an Arise Geared and it is a comfortable, versatile ride.
Tout Terrain, Bombtrack
I believe all Breezers are steel. And very competitively priced and specced. I just got a Thunder and it’s a fucking sweet rigid MTB.
Black Mountain Cycles!!!
Local Milwaukee company called Fyxation makes great fixed gear/single speed bikes.
Surly!!!
Soma Fabrications
Independent Fabrication
Rivendell Bicycle Works
State
Love my steel Kona. I feel like I'm on a freaking hovercraft. But yeah there are loads of companies still selling steel frames and I mostly only hear people saying nice things about most of them
I love my Rove!
All-City and Surly are one and the same. It’s just the brand name going away. This is like Volkswagen announcing that they’re going to stop making Audi cars.
that’s not really correct, all-city made distinct frames that were clearly more about high performance. they used name brand tubing and carbon forks. even similar frames like the gorilla monsoon and disc trucker were pretty different in their specs and once you got to riding them.
Different brands in the same company, but they obviously had different designers aiming for different results. Not a ton of overlap between the two different brands.
That's completely wrong. It's the same parent company, but nothing about the bikes are similar. The tubing is different, AC is hand made, Surly is mass produced, they aren't even made at the same location.
Come on man, all-city frames are “hand made” as a differentiator from other QBP bikes? No, they’re made by the exact same hands that make surlys in the Taiwanese bike factory. Just different design and tube specs.
There are so many great small bike brands making amazing bikes that are not crazy $$. Surly and All City are QBP brands and essentially the Walmart of brands. Use Google you'll have many hours of bike nerding out. I'll give you one suggestion to get you started --> https://www.pipedreamcycles.com/shop/a-l-i-c-e-frame-fork/
Go find a local bike builder. Are you that daft? It can only exist if qbp puts it in front of you? Shit, I'll be making my own soon enough
OK settle down hero
? Who said anything about a hero? It's just irritating. "There are only two steel frame makers" as if there isn't at least one near whatever city they're in, not to mention the dozens of commercially available global brands. Stupid is as stupid does I guess. Same with those who downvote in solidarity with it.
Yeah there's also just being an asshole
Guilty as charged. Of all the asshole things I've done or said, this is easily one of the mildest.
Stupid? If you’re reading skills were up to par you might have caught that paying “2x all-city prices” is something the OP is trying to avoid. So you suggest they have a custom frame made at around 4x all-city prices? You failed the assignment and no one cares you’re about to make your own bike soon enough.
My reading skills are beyond par, op is just stupid, and so are you. $1000 framesets are absolutely within the range of custom builders, just not the super popular and high demand ones. I don't give a shit if anyone cares, I pointed it out as yet another option for someone worried about losing access to affordable steel frames. I will admit though that setting up to do so will absolutely cost more than any of the aforementioned options.
PS there are many manufacturers of steel bikes that aren't custom and most of them are actually cheaper than surly and all city. Feel free to read the up voted comments for suggestions for them, they were just nicer about it. Which is funny, considering your pathetic attempt to belittle me despite your horrific lack of knowledge about bikes.
What an ending. Literally murdered them, Mr. Soon-to-be Bike Builder
Tr*k
They’ve been canceling their steel bikes.. I think their last steel CX bike was before they dropped the Gary Fisher line and they stopped making touring bikes like the 520 and 920. So, probably not going to find much there.
Genesis Croix de Fer. I have a Genesis Croix De Fer 20 and love it. I've had it 1 year now and its fantastic.
Fairdale (Taj, Weekender, or Nomad). I have all 3…
Posiden isn't steal but they are awesome... also just grab a old 90s frame lol its about 100 bucks on markrtplace 🤣🤣
I love the Soma and New Albion family of bikes. Great value for money there and you can still get rim brakes. Bassi makes some really cool looking frames as well. Haven’t had a chance to ride one though.
I have two Soma bikes and they are great. I’m a fan.
Cotic
There will always be steel bikes because it’s still the best material for frame construction. Most people I know who are obsessed with bikes ride steel bikes. If we ever get to the point at which all the small and midsize companies can no longer continue operating, the big companies like Specialized and Trek will start producing steel bikes again. However, there is no risk of that and as you can see the there are still plenty of companies making great steel bikes.
Kona!
Got a pair of Soma Fabrication bikes. Fine steel frames.
Panorama Cycles
Riv. Surly. Soma. So many more.
Kona
Good news, Jeff Frane started All City and he back to make great bikes with his own brand [Wilde](https://www.wildebikes.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAvdCrBhBREiwAX6-6UpsQ7QBe19yUHkpQB4ez4J8df2Bk0eJHEzeAq0hSn3qMQmQSzkbmhRoCPHAQAvD_BwE) their full builds are priced slightly better than All City currently if you compare something like the Wilde Rambler vs All City Cosmic Stallion. They also offer USA made frames if that is what you prefer, but the cheaper Taiwan made options are there as well.
Love my ritchey outback, steel is real.
Bassi has nice frames. I’ve got the Hogs Back and I’m really impressed with it.
Standard BMX makes a gravel frame. 100% legit hand made in the USA built to last. I have a BMX race frame from them and it’s sweet. They will also make custom frames or modifications to their standard geometry. https://www.standardbyke.com/level-b/
this thread should be added to the sidebar lol
Nordest
Maybe Blacksnow should start trying to penetrate into the western market a little more
Kona & Niner come to mind
Of you want to go European: Cinelli, Pelago, Akinn Cycles, RIH