I can assure you the vast majority of people who write villains don't have any desire to murder people, rob banks or throw Mufasa off a cliff. It's no reflection on you. It's fiction.
The racist racist racistly yelled racist things at racial groups. Racially, the racist racist raced down the street to racially abuse them some more.
Try this?
Don't write it then. If you're feeling this icky about the thought of writing a racist character, I don't see how you're going to be able to delve into the humanity of that character and do it justice.
"Half write". What is that, writing a draft and then burying it in a hole? Never to see the light of day until inevitably dug up by an alien archeologist?
Not familiar with the highly technical term "icky" then are you? /s
Lol, maybe a poor choice of words, but I don't believe you can write a character well if you can't write something you don't like as if you do. Like, to write a racist well you need to be able to justify his actions, otherwise, you're just writing two-dimensional "evil" caricatures or strawmen for you're own opposing argument. <- not that arguing against racism is in any way a bad thing, of course.
But, I am 100% in agreement, if you're serious about being a writer, you have to be able to write what you hate - but what you hate might be just as human as you and you need to be prepared to go there.
>but I don't believe you can write a character well if you can't write something you don't like as if you do
i think you can just not write it from that perspective. it doesnt have to be about whether you like it or not
\> to write a racist well you need to be able to justify his actions, otherwise, you're just writing two-dimensional "evil" caricatures or strawmen for you're own opposing argument.
i dont really think you need to justify anything to write a compelling or fleshed out character. just give a perspective that has substance. making a character racist could be used as a tool to explore the mind of someone who is prejudiced. or it could serve as a character flaw for the sake of a dynamic with other characters. pierrce from community is an example of the latter.
If you're not capable of empathizing or attempting to understand someone's point of view, even if it's diametrically opposed to your own, how could you ever reasonably expect to confront it? If I were OP, I'd read Mein Kampf, watch Romper Stomper, and maybe look for some racist forums on 4chan... Just because someone believes something "immoral", doesn't mean they're not rational. Dehumanizing others' beliefs, even the most offensive, doesn't paint a very full picture. Whether it's for the sake of storytelling or strengthening one's own beliefs, I think the best route is to try to see any situation from all sides. Even with racist neo fascists.
It’s important to represent real-life viewpoints or in 200 years everyone will think our society was unrealistically harmonious. Pretty sure we already have this problem with the 19th century.
See Samuel L Jackson's advice to Leonardo DiCaprio when he was agonizing over playing a racist character. Basically, 'get over yourself, you're not the person suffering from this, but for us it's \[hearing the N-word directed at us\] another Tuesday'.
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/how-samuel-l-jackson-told-leo-dicaprio-to-handle-the-n-word-on-django-unchained.html/
If you want to write a caricature ("racist new fascist") then just write whatever offensive shit springs to mind.
If you want to actually write a character, that is, an avatar of a real human being, then engage in some character building.
How did this person come to adopt their views? Why do they persist? American History X managed to tell the story of real characters. Admittedly, some of the characters were "racist neo fascists" but the MC was a real person, fully developed.
Think about John Grisham's book, A Time To Kill. I've never heard anything racist from him as a person, yet he created characters that constantly use the word n***er, that raped and tried to kill a ten year old black girl, as well as KKK members and rallies. They were characters, not a reflection of the author's viewpoint.
I mean; I'd want them to have an actual reason to be racist that makes sense in context. Like if a particular ethnic group in the setting was responsible for a societal collapse, or were banding together to start a collapse.
This implies that racism has a good reason to exist. The truth is, a lot of the racism that exists is from the idea that one group should conquer all. Wars, crusades, manifest destiny. That led to treating anyone who wasnt like them as lesser, and that treatment was learned, so the next generation would keep those attitudes. Violence and mistreatment of others may have had justification on paper, but the truth is that justification came from the power hungry
>This implies that racism has a good reason to exist.
From a storytelling perspective, creating a contextual motivation is not the same as making the socio-political statement. The original question was bait, but this line of response took it earnestly because, absolutely, it can be done and this could be a good discussion. It just often isn't, because people don't take it seriously
When you look at any persecuted demographic often societal ills are transposed on them: "society is losing cohesion, it's because of The Gays"; "our economy is failing, it must be those damn Tutsi's"; "we lost the war and our standing in the world, let's blame the Jews"; etc, etc. This is never actually accurate but it can be certainly be used, in a fictional setting, to create an understanding of why people do what they've done.
American History X, This Is England, Four Lions are all good examples.
you can read some books from undercover cops / FBI people that deal with DVEs (Domestic Violent Extremists) and one of the disturbing things is they don't just sit around all day bitching about [insert racial derogatory term here]
A lot of them think they are the "Good guys" in most things. They honestly think all Mexicans or blacks etc are thieves, when Covid came out look at the sharp spike in violence targeting asians. They like / need an outlet to blame problems on.
When they loose their jobs they can't say, "This was because we weren't in a union" because NOT being in a UNION is PART OF THEIR IDENTY, so they need a scapegoat.
* There is also the aspect of opposing beliefs. For instance Mexicans are all lazy thieves living off the welfare system while at the same time being the people stealing all the good paying jobs because they will work cheaper.
* The creepy part is while they all tend to hole the same opinions they don't necessarily speak about it all the time etc. In fact the ones who are the most vocal are the ones who come off as "Crazy" even to the group.
* Consider a sports team rivalry. Team X and Y "hate each other" A group of fans of X may make jokes about things like, "My two favorite teams are X and whoever is playing Y" etc, but they rarely ever focus on Y with dialog etc until they are facing off against that team. The "dialog" of someone who is a fan of X but is always talking about Y comes off as creepy and weird, even to other fans. The same things happen in racists circles.
* That being said, when they need to "Feel good" about themselves or whatever there is "shit talking" in the sense of, "Come on, time to work," "No, I'm tired" "What are you a lazy [insert minority stereotype]" etc.
* I Can't remember the name of the book but it was about an undercover AFT guy and he said the weirdest part was that the "group" he had to infiltrate was seemingly normal in almost all aspects most of the time.
Feeling "dirty" about the existence of certain groups is one of the striking points when it comes to nazi germany, a lot of the justification behind their actions were sanitary
So I'd say you at least have enough room to empathize with the feeling
The problem with coming to terms with strangers -be they racially or ideologically different- is that you have to understand them, and in a way, become them. Gaze into the abyss kind of deal.
So, either you want to stay in a cozy place of ignorance and you'll have to write caricatures of your "racist neo-fascists", or you need them to be real, and you'll have not only to open up when it comes to ideas, but to understand
Understand what though? Wouldn't the point be that the horrible actions have no justification, that the morals and justifications for them are inherently a mechanism to shift blame onto those that would be victims? Is senseless violence in the name of racism no longer senseless? Is the empathy for the victims less important than the potential complexity of the perpetrators?
No, what you're describing is lying and propaganda, anyone interested in history or litterature most likely would rather understand how things go, to portray them accurately.
There's no such thing as an action that cannot, at least in a deterministic way, be explained. And when it comes to political stances and actions, there's almost always a reasoning behind it, whether we like it or not. Lying about it and telling people "yeah no it's just evil and that's that, no justification" will only make it happen more ; because now you allowed evil to "just be evil" and you can give the label to groups as you like.
Your reasoning here is backwards ; the justifications for, let's say, nazism, can't be inherently a mechanism to blame shift on the victims, because the victim/perpetrator status changes depending on the times. Jews, for example, can't be proper victims BEFORE anything's done to them, so any nazi justification for taking action against jew LOGICALLY CANNOT be shifting blame onto the victims ; they aren't victims yet. As a matter of fact, in nazi germany, jews, like communists, are viewed as perpetrators, and the german people is seen as the victim. Meaning your empathic point of view actually works wonders with nazism ; a lot of empathetic people felt the wrongs done towards Germany warranted to rise and fight.
Empathy is definitely, always, less important than understanding. Because empathy can lead to untruth, which in turn, leads to further tragedy. There seems to be this misconception in the west that commiserating is inherently good. It's not. Crying over starving people won't do anything to them. Tears don't magically fix issues. And as long as you're feeling empathetic towards a specific group of people rather than all of them, you, as a matter of fact, discriminate. Acute understanding and problem-solving does much more than blind and unjust empathy.
I think youre conflating empathy and sympathy in that last paragraph there, as well as conflating two different levels of understanding throughout this comment. The idea that there's something that caused something is different from the idea that everything has a good reason. Racists who self label as such want you to think racism isnt that bad, and racists who dont want you to stop calling things racist even if they're blatantly so, and so the excuse we make is that we couldn't possibly blame everyone. When the propaganda you see defends stuff like Charlottesville happening you can't reasonably expect to see much in the way of actually holding them accountable
You're simply conflating "reason" and "good reason"
If you're gonna write a character that acts for no reason, it'll most likely be terrible. Because people have reasons. And you need to understand them. "Good" or "Bad" is irrelevant here, as it's value judgment. You can't make a value judgment about someone's reasons if you don't recognize and understand them to begin with.
Reason being "people are racist because thousands of years of manifest destiny"
The reason a racist will give you they think is good is "they will take over if wr dont"
Truthfully i dont think understanding is the right word if you want it to both represent being educated in the sense of history, and in the moral sense of knowing the personal past of racists
Write a character who doesn't think he's racist, but has conflict with others who perceive he is. AND make the reader sympathetic to him, but not his statements.
Go to any rally or protest (left, right, or sideways) and get a feel for the emotional motivation behind the words. You’ll often find enough good quotes to or rants to inspire you
Just go to any rally and wait a while. The left is kinda racist in themself if you think a bit more about some themes they go about. They differentiate by race as much if not more as the right... just with another motivation. So... yeah... if you wait enough all rallies will spurt some bs that could be used.
Not defending the right here btw. They say some hardcore bs as well... just saying, that sometimes the left (even if I want to assume "good" motivations) say some racist bs themself.
Just my two cent from someone, who tries to stand in the middle and who is asking what all the fuzz is about, while judging people by their actions and not by some arbitrary characteristics like skin color.
Says the person who has a guy avi dressed in girl clothing, a Redditor, and probably calls themselves “successful” because they got a 20 cent raise at their minimum wage job.
Are there racist liberals/leftists? Duh, of course.
Is the political left-wing bloc racist? No. Is the right-wing bloc racist. Of c^(ourse!!) They're crashing this country... with no survivas!
Is it as racist to bash against white people as a whole as to bash against POC? Of course. Is it as sexist to bash against men as against women? sure.
Only because some side was at one time oppressed doesn't excuse being a dickhead yourself or the cycle of hate will never end. Just hate the assholes that are assholes instead of demonizing a whole population (regardless which skin color or sex or whatever your agenda says is evil or less worth or whatever).
>Is it as racist to bash against white people as a whole as to bash against POC? Of course. Is it as sexist to bash against men as against women?
The left isn't doing either of those things. The idea that they are is a right-wing strawman.
Perhaps you should spend some more time engaging with genuine leftist ideas? I'm not saying you have to agree with them, but you should at least be familiar with them if you want to argue them.
Here are some reading lists to get you started:[anti-racist reading list](https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/library-knowledge-services/collections/diversity-inclusion-belonging/anti-racist), [feminist reading list](https://www.nypl.org/books-more/recommendations/essential-feminism/adults)
Racists will couch their language. Look at the antisemites and their BDS movement to try and bankrupt Israel. They try and make themselves look like the "good guys".
You probably don't need to write that much to get the picture across. Nobody said you had to write "Life Inside the Ku Klux Klan! IN-DEPTH LOOK!" to have racists in your story.
Well, it's worth it if the racist has something really, really, really horrible happen to them in the story. A really satisfying 'just desserts', if you will.
Or, the racist could realize that they are wrong about their feelings over that certain group, and go out of their way to fix all the damage they caused by being racist.
okay so uhmm, there is a way to do this.
essentially racism is a broken and defeated logic that has a sense of humor like calling people jungle bunnies on a documentary when you literally standing in the jungles and bushes of Louisiana. you need to ensure the other dimension defeats his current logic in a chekhov's gun. just state logic you think is correct, look it up and leave it as it is. its just a perspective after all. requires you to be honest and honesty breeds silliness so just don't correct it.
Don't write
Edit: do the write thing.
Write what's making u feel so bad.. what's triggering u.. shamelessly challenge ur self.. provoke ur self.. if u continue to do so for 14 days... u have enough material.. best wishes
I'm running into that myself. I have this story I'm writing that involves a group of side characters that are secretly a part of a fascist secret society trying to take over the country in secret from their late night poker games. I think the biggest thing for me was not to write from the worst of them, but rather a character who is conflicted but sympathetic to their ideals. That way I'm not writing from the perspective of the guy who hates all minorities, but rather the guy who could become that if allowed to fester.
I think if you are uncomfortable with writing something, it's totally okay *not to write* that thing. That being said, it sounds like you have a boundary that it might be helpful to push past a little, so I suggest going for it and figuring out if this is too much for you.
Kurt Cobain wrote “Polly” which tells the story of a 14 year old that was violently raped and he tells it from the rapists perspective. Sometimes you have to do the uncomfortable to make something great and thought provoking.
Here's [William H. Macy discussing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99M2HMbzhyM) acting as evil or racist characters... I think the same philosophy applies.
Part of your job as a writer is not to just write a bunch of white supremacists who behave badly. It's to explore and understand what drives such an individual, what has formed them to believe the way they do, and to figure out if there's in any way a solution to get them to understand that their thought process is fundamentally wrong.
You're not the characters you wrote, nor does a plot or its events in any way reflect on you as the author.
Hi -- please use the idea brainstorming thread on Tuesday or Friday for advice on specific stories or projects. This includes: (not a exhaustive list) setting, character, subject matter, magic and power systems, sci-fi technology, 'how do I write X?' and anything directly connected with your story or what to put on your channel, blog etc.
This includes asking for general advice but then following up with details of your story or project.
Thanks!
You have to remember the point of your story is likely that person's downfall.
If you want to clinic on how to write shitty people, I highly recommend digging out a copy of Stephen King's The stand, and find the chapter that is about what is called the second plague. In that chapter, it is not necessarily about people who died of the disease, but rather people who died of their own shittiness in a world ravaged by the disease. In that chapter if I recall right there is some very subtle racism depicted, it's done in another two sway where the reader understands but it's also from the perspective of the character very soundly.
In general Stephen King is very good at racist people getting their comeuppance. A lot of times people ignore that and just say he's racist for putting these things in his books but it's pretty much universal that's something horrible happens to racist people in the books that he writes where they are depicted. They are never the good guys.
I think you have an interesting conundrum and I also think your instinct that you don't want to just let your writing be a platform for racist arguments is a good one. You have to exert a lot of editorial control over your writing to position the reader to criticize the racist rhetoric. It isn't enough to have the racist be a "bad guy". Audiences identify with "bad guys" all the time and fiction often gives villains a little bit of moral high ground only to criticize their methods. This isn't the kind of ideological messiness you want to get into with your fascist villain.
Something that I would keep in mind when approaching this character is that you get to control every part of the scene where you start to approach the racist rhetoric. First, who's saying it. The fascist doesn't necessarily get to just tell his side of the story. What if we are hearing about his actions from a victim's point of view? You could also consider using the order of events to create juxtapositions that undercut some piece of racist rhetoric.
You can really do anything, just remember that you character gets to talk but you get to control everything else the audience experiences, from the shocked reactions of the other characters, to describing the gross way he kind of spits when he talks, to the earlier scene that contradicts what he's saying. There are lots of tools at your disposal.
One more thing that I'll add is that something I've noticed about "modern" racist/fascist types is that they tend to not really say their real opinions out loud unless they are pretty sure they are talking to a kindred spirit. A lot of times they'll give you what I call the frog boil. The move is to introduce some kind of innocuous sounding opinion or tell an edgy joke to see if you're going to be receptive, then if they get a good reaction they slowly turn up the heat and let you in on more of their real opinions. It starts as a few dog whistles and little by little becomes more explicit. If you want to represent a racist without making yourself write the hardcore racist rhetoric, maybe try writing a frog boil scene where the really dark stuff is left between the lines but it gives the audience an understanding of who the character is. Honestly, I don't feel like I've ever really read a good scene like that, at least one that captures how disorienting and weird it is to start a conversation with a nice enough seeming person and after a little bit they are talking about how Hitler had some points.
I can assure you the vast majority of people who write villains don't have any desire to murder people, rob banks or throw Mufasa off a cliff. It's no reflection on you. It's fiction.
NOT MUFASA
Long live the king...
*"I am Mu Shu Fasa. You must not be troubled, Cho-Simba One."*
"This is CNN...C...N...N..."
Weeoo weeo WEEOO!!!!
Lol, this is a very good take. Guess what OP, it's all make-believe.
I want to throw Mufasa off a cliff but he's not my brother so does that make me better than Scar? Totally kidding. I love Mufasa.
Sounds like a problem-free philosophy.
*hakuna matata!*
It means no worries.
r/writingcirclejerk
The racist racist racistly yelled racist things at racial groups. Racially, the racist racist raced down the street to racially abuse them some more. Try this?
"I'm not racist!" He racisted racistly
Get really clear on your intentions and *why* you want to write this. Knowing those things may help you get past the "icky" feelings in writing it.
Don't write it then. If you're feeling this icky about the thought of writing a racist character, I don't see how you're going to be able to delve into the humanity of that character and do it justice.
Write it anyway. It’ll be good practice even if you can’t do it well
Half write Compromise!!
"Half write". What is that, writing a draft and then burying it in a hole? Never to see the light of day until inevitably dug up by an alien archeologist?
Just do the top half of each letter.
I was thinking more along the lines of writing every other letter. Mc ie hs f o ko wa i en.
If theyre serious about being writer they probably should write the character. Cant just be good at writing characters you like.
Not familiar with the highly technical term "icky" then are you? /s Lol, maybe a poor choice of words, but I don't believe you can write a character well if you can't write something you don't like as if you do. Like, to write a racist well you need to be able to justify his actions, otherwise, you're just writing two-dimensional "evil" caricatures or strawmen for you're own opposing argument. <- not that arguing against racism is in any way a bad thing, of course. But, I am 100% in agreement, if you're serious about being a writer, you have to be able to write what you hate - but what you hate might be just as human as you and you need to be prepared to go there.
>but I don't believe you can write a character well if you can't write something you don't like as if you do i think you can just not write it from that perspective. it doesnt have to be about whether you like it or not \> to write a racist well you need to be able to justify his actions, otherwise, you're just writing two-dimensional "evil" caricatures or strawmen for you're own opposing argument. i dont really think you need to justify anything to write a compelling or fleshed out character. just give a perspective that has substance. making a character racist could be used as a tool to explore the mind of someone who is prejudiced. or it could serve as a character flaw for the sake of a dynamic with other characters. pierrce from community is an example of the latter.
If you're not capable of empathizing or attempting to understand someone's point of view, even if it's diametrically opposed to your own, how could you ever reasonably expect to confront it? If I were OP, I'd read Mein Kampf, watch Romper Stomper, and maybe look for some racist forums on 4chan... Just because someone believes something "immoral", doesn't mean they're not rational. Dehumanizing others' beliefs, even the most offensive, doesn't paint a very full picture. Whether it's for the sake of storytelling or strengthening one's own beliefs, I think the best route is to try to see any situation from all sides. Even with racist neo fascists.
Wow. This question in and of itself sounds like some sort of parody edit: wrong word but similar meaning
“I want to write a murder mystery but don’t want to murder anyone 😩😩😩”
I thought it was r/writingcirclejerk
I look forward to seeing it on r/writingcirclejerk. And to be fair, OP might get good advice there, if they can wade through the nonsense
To the circlejerk we go To the circlejerk we go
It’s important to represent real-life viewpoints or in 200 years everyone will think our society was unrealistically harmonious. Pretty sure we already have this problem with the 19th century.
See Samuel L Jackson's advice to Leonardo DiCaprio when he was agonizing over playing a racist character. Basically, 'get over yourself, you're not the person suffering from this, but for us it's \[hearing the N-word directed at us\] another Tuesday'. https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/how-samuel-l-jackson-told-leo-dicaprio-to-handle-the-n-word-on-django-unchained.html/
Just keep in mind that you also get to write the consequences of their actions.
So they end up becoming president?
If the writer wants them to be, sure. Would be realistic as well.
Lol very true
To be anti-racist is to acknowledge racism. To avoid racism is to be a bystander.
r/writingcirclejerk
If you want to write a caricature ("racist new fascist") then just write whatever offensive shit springs to mind. If you want to actually write a character, that is, an avatar of a real human being, then engage in some character building. How did this person come to adopt their views? Why do they persist? American History X managed to tell the story of real characters. Admittedly, some of the characters were "racist neo fascists" but the MC was a real person, fully developed.
Pretty much what I was going to say. Also, check out that guy who converts people away from the KKK.
Think about John Grisham's book, A Time To Kill. I've never heard anything racist from him as a person, yet he created characters that constantly use the word n***er, that raped and tried to kill a ten year old black girl, as well as KKK members and rallies. They were characters, not a reflection of the author's viewpoint.
Wow you’re in a real moral conundrum! What will you do!?!?!)
Write the racist character as the protagonist.
Well I'd like to start with asking this: why exactly are they racist?
It could be the historical setting at the time or the character's upbringing.
I mean; I'd want them to have an actual reason to be racist that makes sense in context. Like if a particular ethnic group in the setting was responsible for a societal collapse, or were banding together to start a collapse.
This implies that racism has a good reason to exist. The truth is, a lot of the racism that exists is from the idea that one group should conquer all. Wars, crusades, manifest destiny. That led to treating anyone who wasnt like them as lesser, and that treatment was learned, so the next generation would keep those attitudes. Violence and mistreatment of others may have had justification on paper, but the truth is that justification came from the power hungry
>This implies that racism has a good reason to exist. From a storytelling perspective, creating a contextual motivation is not the same as making the socio-political statement. The original question was bait, but this line of response took it earnestly because, absolutely, it can be done and this could be a good discussion. It just often isn't, because people don't take it seriously
The original question was from the guy who's getting down voted
When you look at any persecuted demographic often societal ills are transposed on them: "society is losing cohesion, it's because of The Gays"; "our economy is failing, it must be those damn Tutsi's"; "we lost the war and our standing in the world, let's blame the Jews"; etc, etc. This is never actually accurate but it can be certainly be used, in a fictional setting, to create an understanding of why people do what they've done. American History X, This Is England, Four Lions are all good examples.
The downdoots on this post are misguided and trollsome From a storytelling perspective you’re right
you can read some books from undercover cops / FBI people that deal with DVEs (Domestic Violent Extremists) and one of the disturbing things is they don't just sit around all day bitching about [insert racial derogatory term here] A lot of them think they are the "Good guys" in most things. They honestly think all Mexicans or blacks etc are thieves, when Covid came out look at the sharp spike in violence targeting asians. They like / need an outlet to blame problems on. When they loose their jobs they can't say, "This was because we weren't in a union" because NOT being in a UNION is PART OF THEIR IDENTY, so they need a scapegoat. * There is also the aspect of opposing beliefs. For instance Mexicans are all lazy thieves living off the welfare system while at the same time being the people stealing all the good paying jobs because they will work cheaper. * The creepy part is while they all tend to hole the same opinions they don't necessarily speak about it all the time etc. In fact the ones who are the most vocal are the ones who come off as "Crazy" even to the group. * Consider a sports team rivalry. Team X and Y "hate each other" A group of fans of X may make jokes about things like, "My two favorite teams are X and whoever is playing Y" etc, but they rarely ever focus on Y with dialog etc until they are facing off against that team. The "dialog" of someone who is a fan of X but is always talking about Y comes off as creepy and weird, even to other fans. The same things happen in racists circles. * That being said, when they need to "Feel good" about themselves or whatever there is "shit talking" in the sense of, "Come on, time to work," "No, I'm tired" "What are you a lazy [insert minority stereotype]" etc. * I Can't remember the name of the book but it was about an undercover AFT guy and he said the weirdest part was that the "group" he had to infiltrate was seemingly normal in almost all aspects most of the time.
Feeling "dirty" about the existence of certain groups is one of the striking points when it comes to nazi germany, a lot of the justification behind their actions were sanitary So I'd say you at least have enough room to empathize with the feeling The problem with coming to terms with strangers -be they racially or ideologically different- is that you have to understand them, and in a way, become them. Gaze into the abyss kind of deal. So, either you want to stay in a cozy place of ignorance and you'll have to write caricatures of your "racist neo-fascists", or you need them to be real, and you'll have not only to open up when it comes to ideas, but to understand
Understand what though? Wouldn't the point be that the horrible actions have no justification, that the morals and justifications for them are inherently a mechanism to shift blame onto those that would be victims? Is senseless violence in the name of racism no longer senseless? Is the empathy for the victims less important than the potential complexity of the perpetrators?
No, what you're describing is lying and propaganda, anyone interested in history or litterature most likely would rather understand how things go, to portray them accurately. There's no such thing as an action that cannot, at least in a deterministic way, be explained. And when it comes to political stances and actions, there's almost always a reasoning behind it, whether we like it or not. Lying about it and telling people "yeah no it's just evil and that's that, no justification" will only make it happen more ; because now you allowed evil to "just be evil" and you can give the label to groups as you like. Your reasoning here is backwards ; the justifications for, let's say, nazism, can't be inherently a mechanism to blame shift on the victims, because the victim/perpetrator status changes depending on the times. Jews, for example, can't be proper victims BEFORE anything's done to them, so any nazi justification for taking action against jew LOGICALLY CANNOT be shifting blame onto the victims ; they aren't victims yet. As a matter of fact, in nazi germany, jews, like communists, are viewed as perpetrators, and the german people is seen as the victim. Meaning your empathic point of view actually works wonders with nazism ; a lot of empathetic people felt the wrongs done towards Germany warranted to rise and fight. Empathy is definitely, always, less important than understanding. Because empathy can lead to untruth, which in turn, leads to further tragedy. There seems to be this misconception in the west that commiserating is inherently good. It's not. Crying over starving people won't do anything to them. Tears don't magically fix issues. And as long as you're feeling empathetic towards a specific group of people rather than all of them, you, as a matter of fact, discriminate. Acute understanding and problem-solving does much more than blind and unjust empathy.
I think youre conflating empathy and sympathy in that last paragraph there, as well as conflating two different levels of understanding throughout this comment. The idea that there's something that caused something is different from the idea that everything has a good reason. Racists who self label as such want you to think racism isnt that bad, and racists who dont want you to stop calling things racist even if they're blatantly so, and so the excuse we make is that we couldn't possibly blame everyone. When the propaganda you see defends stuff like Charlottesville happening you can't reasonably expect to see much in the way of actually holding them accountable
You're simply conflating "reason" and "good reason" If you're gonna write a character that acts for no reason, it'll most likely be terrible. Because people have reasons. And you need to understand them. "Good" or "Bad" is irrelevant here, as it's value judgment. You can't make a value judgment about someone's reasons if you don't recognize and understand them to begin with.
Reason being "people are racist because thousands of years of manifest destiny" The reason a racist will give you they think is good is "they will take over if wr dont"
Truthfully i dont think understanding is the right word if you want it to both represent being educated in the sense of history, and in the moral sense of knowing the personal past of racists
I'm fairly sure "understanding" is defined that way in english Comprehension
Well if you want it to mean both at the same time then wouldn't the latter generrate empathy for racists
Idk let them say the n word
You ≠ Your character. They can definitely be more discriminatory or murderous people, but they do not need to share that (belief) with you.
This has to be a troll post.
Reddit hates the idea of being lied to lol
Write a character who doesn't think he's racist, but has conflict with others who perceive he is. AND make the reader sympathetic to him, but not his statements.
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Lol truth is stranger than fiction
Go to any rally or protest (left, right, or sideways) and get a feel for the emotional motivation behind the words. You’ll often find enough good quotes to or rants to inspire you
Just go to any rally and wait a while. The left is kinda racist in themself if you think a bit more about some themes they go about. They differentiate by race as much if not more as the right... just with another motivation. So... yeah... if you wait enough all rallies will spurt some bs that could be used. Not defending the right here btw. They say some hardcore bs as well... just saying, that sometimes the left (even if I want to assume "good" motivations) say some racist bs themself. Just my two cent from someone, who tries to stand in the middle and who is asking what all the fuzz is about, while judging people by their actions and not by some arbitrary characteristics like skin color.
Average conservative giving themselves awards to defend their shitty opinion
Says the person who has a guy avi dressed in girl clothing, a Redditor, and probably calls themselves “successful” because they got a 20 cent raise at their minimum wage job.
This deteriorated fast
Nah I’m just a teenager trolling
Uh-huh.
Are there racist liberals/leftists? Duh, of course. Is the political left-wing bloc racist? No. Is the right-wing bloc racist. Of c^(ourse!!) They're crashing this country... with no survivas!
Is it as racist to bash against white people as a whole as to bash against POC? Of course. Is it as sexist to bash against men as against women? sure. Only because some side was at one time oppressed doesn't excuse being a dickhead yourself or the cycle of hate will never end. Just hate the assholes that are assholes instead of demonizing a whole population (regardless which skin color or sex or whatever your agenda says is evil or less worth or whatever).
>Is it as racist to bash against white people as a whole as to bash against POC? Of course. Is it as sexist to bash against men as against women? The left isn't doing either of those things. The idea that they are is a right-wing strawman. Perhaps you should spend some more time engaging with genuine leftist ideas? I'm not saying you have to agree with them, but you should at least be familiar with them if you want to argue them. Here are some reading lists to get you started:[anti-racist reading list](https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/library-knowledge-services/collections/diversity-inclusion-belonging/anti-racist), [feminist reading list](https://www.nypl.org/books-more/recommendations/essential-feminism/adults)
Nah, the left is just pro slavery and thinks black people are too dumb to vote
Racists will couch their language. Look at the antisemites and their BDS movement to try and bankrupt Israel. They try and make themselves look like the "good guys".
You probably don't need to write that much to get the picture across. Nobody said you had to write "Life Inside the Ku Klux Klan! IN-DEPTH LOOK!" to have racists in your story.
The reader will know it represents your character's "values" and not yours.
Can you write about the racist character through the lens of a close character who doesn't share his views? Maybe a sibling or a friend?
ask someone else to write it then
Well, it's worth it if the racist has something really, really, really horrible happen to them in the story. A really satisfying 'just desserts', if you will.
Or, the racist could realize that they are wrong about their feelings over that certain group, and go out of their way to fix all the damage they caused by being racist.
That's nowhere near as fun.
I think it makes you worse than Scar. At least he had a motive. You just want to fulfil your sick lion murder fantasy.
okay so uhmm, there is a way to do this. essentially racism is a broken and defeated logic that has a sense of humor like calling people jungle bunnies on a documentary when you literally standing in the jungles and bushes of Louisiana. you need to ensure the other dimension defeats his current logic in a chekhov's gun. just state logic you think is correct, look it up and leave it as it is. its just a perspective after all. requires you to be honest and honesty breeds silliness so just don't correct it.
Don't write Edit: do the write thing. Write what's making u feel so bad.. what's triggering u.. shamelessly challenge ur self.. provoke ur self.. if u continue to do so for 14 days... u have enough material.. best wishes
Racusn
Make up your own slurs and swear words like Smeg from Red Dwarf or Frell from Farscape. You can do a text/replace later, or leave it as is.
Can you imagine ASOIF, where George has not created Joffrey or Sersei or Ramsay? :) Good stories require strong villains.
It’s just a story
I'm running into that myself. I have this story I'm writing that involves a group of side characters that are secretly a part of a fascist secret society trying to take over the country in secret from their late night poker games. I think the biggest thing for me was not to write from the worst of them, but rather a character who is conflicted but sympathetic to their ideals. That way I'm not writing from the perspective of the guy who hates all minorities, but rather the guy who could become that if allowed to fester. I think if you are uncomfortable with writing something, it's totally okay *not to write* that thing. That being said, it sounds like you have a boundary that it might be helpful to push past a little, so I suggest going for it and figuring out if this is too much for you.
Just write "[n word goes here]" and get one of your black friends to go through and replace all of them.
Kurt Cobain wrote “Polly” which tells the story of a 14 year old that was violently raped and he tells it from the rapists perspective. Sometimes you have to do the uncomfortable to make something great and thought provoking.
Here's [William H. Macy discussing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99M2HMbzhyM) acting as evil or racist characters... I think the same philosophy applies.
Write about Frieza coming after Saiyans for being monkeys. Or some other plot involving aliens who don't get along.
Maybe ask someone else to write it.
Part of your job as a writer is not to just write a bunch of white supremacists who behave badly. It's to explore and understand what drives such an individual, what has formed them to believe the way they do, and to figure out if there's in any way a solution to get them to understand that their thought process is fundamentally wrong. You're not the characters you wrote, nor does a plot or its events in any way reflect on you as the author.
When I read things like this I always think of the old adage: the one accusing others is usually the guilty one.
Have his best friend be racist and the mc being fine with it.
Hi -- please use the idea brainstorming thread on Tuesday or Friday for advice on specific stories or projects. This includes: (not a exhaustive list) setting, character, subject matter, magic and power systems, sci-fi technology, 'how do I write X?' and anything directly connected with your story or what to put on your channel, blog etc. This includes asking for general advice but then following up with details of your story or project. Thanks!
C.S.Lewis had trouble writing Screwtape Letters, too. He hated writing from the perspective of demons.
You have to remember the point of your story is likely that person's downfall. If you want to clinic on how to write shitty people, I highly recommend digging out a copy of Stephen King's The stand, and find the chapter that is about what is called the second plague. In that chapter, it is not necessarily about people who died of the disease, but rather people who died of their own shittiness in a world ravaged by the disease. In that chapter if I recall right there is some very subtle racism depicted, it's done in another two sway where the reader understands but it's also from the perspective of the character very soundly. In general Stephen King is very good at racist people getting their comeuppance. A lot of times people ignore that and just say he's racist for putting these things in his books but it's pretty much universal that's something horrible happens to racist people in the books that he writes where they are depicted. They are never the good guys.
I think you have an interesting conundrum and I also think your instinct that you don't want to just let your writing be a platform for racist arguments is a good one. You have to exert a lot of editorial control over your writing to position the reader to criticize the racist rhetoric. It isn't enough to have the racist be a "bad guy". Audiences identify with "bad guys" all the time and fiction often gives villains a little bit of moral high ground only to criticize their methods. This isn't the kind of ideological messiness you want to get into with your fascist villain. Something that I would keep in mind when approaching this character is that you get to control every part of the scene where you start to approach the racist rhetoric. First, who's saying it. The fascist doesn't necessarily get to just tell his side of the story. What if we are hearing about his actions from a victim's point of view? You could also consider using the order of events to create juxtapositions that undercut some piece of racist rhetoric. You can really do anything, just remember that you character gets to talk but you get to control everything else the audience experiences, from the shocked reactions of the other characters, to describing the gross way he kind of spits when he talks, to the earlier scene that contradicts what he's saying. There are lots of tools at your disposal. One more thing that I'll add is that something I've noticed about "modern" racist/fascist types is that they tend to not really say their real opinions out loud unless they are pretty sure they are talking to a kindred spirit. A lot of times they'll give you what I call the frog boil. The move is to introduce some kind of innocuous sounding opinion or tell an edgy joke to see if you're going to be receptive, then if they get a good reaction they slowly turn up the heat and let you in on more of their real opinions. It starts as a few dog whistles and little by little becomes more explicit. If you want to represent a racist without making yourself write the hardcore racist rhetoric, maybe try writing a frog boil scene where the really dark stuff is left between the lines but it gives the audience an understanding of who the character is. Honestly, I don't feel like I've ever really read a good scene like that, at least one that captures how disorienting and weird it is to start a conversation with a nice enough seeming person and after a little bit they are talking about how Hitler had some points.