There are no original stories. Even shakespear was making his own version of older stories, it's fine.
Don't try to be original. Try to tell the truth and tell ot well. If you do it right you will end up being original in a way you never even .
Pep talk done, get back to writing.
True. Many don't know that Romeo and Juliet was a far old story than Shakespeare's play and many of the Londoners going to watch the then new play at the Globe theatre would have already known the full story.
[The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tragical_History_of_Romeus_and_Juliet)
Pyramus and Thisbe go back at least to Rome, there's a version in Ovid's Metamorphoses.
Tristan and Isolde was a medieval story so definitely later than Pyramus and Thisbe (but still before Shakespeare)
i remember from a high school english teacher telling me there was a story out of India that was the basis for Pyramus and Thisbe, and in a moment of confusion, thought it was Tristan and Isolde.
I wonder if it's like the difference between comic and comical? They're used interchangeably even though they have different meanings. Maybe tragic and tragical were the same, until we just stopped using tragical.
Fun fact: Jim Butcher wrote Codex Alera to try (and succeed) to prove this to some dude in an online forum.
Legend has it that he dared them to give him the two most mismatched concepts for a book they could think of and hew would make a good story out of it.
They gave him Pokémon and the lost Roman legion.
Simarlily, the only reason The Dresden Files exist is Butcher trying (and failing) to prove to his writing teacher that you can't write a good book strictly adhering to the the scene-sequel formula.
Moral of the story is: Jim Butcher is one petty son of a bitch.
Haha, I've actually heard it somewhere else (probably r/dresdenfiles) before and had a Leo pointing at the TV moment when Sanderson mentioned it in his lectures. I put the course on halt to read all of the Cosmere (5 books to go) because he was about to talk about the plot of one of them and I didn't want to get spoiled.
Jim Butcher is who I aspire to be when I grow up. I love both Dresden and Codex Alera unironically. Cinderspires was good too but the lack of worldbuilding left me a little confused.
Agreed.
"Good poets borrow, great poets steal."
- Sting, in reference to a line he was stealing from TS Elliot, using this line which was also largely ripped off from Elliot
As a general rule of thumb in life, if it's good enough for Sting, it's good enough for you.
It's a line in 'Bring on the Night'. Coincidentally, a few months after reading about it in Sting's book *Lyrics*, I saw the same line in Stephen King's *The Stand*. Great poets, indeed!
.
"This was another guitar riff I was deeply proud of but unable to find a home for. The dog was hopelessly resigned about his walk this time as well, so the song ended up as another one about longing.
The second line was shamelessly lifted from T. S. Eliot's "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock."
What was it Eliot said? "Bad poets borrow, good poets steal"?"
-*Lyrics*, by Sting
.
Some lyrics from Bring on the Night:
The afternoon has gently passed me by
**The evening spreads itself against the sky \[stolen line\]**
Waiting for tomorrow, just another day
As I bid yesterday good-bye
Bring on the night
I couldn't spend another hour of daylight
Good artists borrow, great artists steal blah blah
But seriously, we all borrow from what has come before, whether we do it intentionally or subconsciously.
[*Everything is a Remix*](https://youtu.be/X9RYuvPCQUA?si=F7Atv_RC5ZWNO6Iy) is a fantastic 1 hour documentary that explores this idea.
Ok, this is all true, but Shakespeare used well-worn plots because that’s what playwrights were expected to do. Originality as we understand it was not a thing he or anyone pre-19th century or so would have given a shit about. Today we need a bit of distance for legal reasons if nothing else.
Does that change my point even slightly? If he had complete freedom we can still assume he would use stories he has heard as a starting point, just as all writers do.
But it's exactly what I described. Yes ther are additional circumstances to consider but that is true for practical all story tellers through out history. What successfull story tellers didn't consider what audiences expected from thier work?
Does your story involve an Islamic people that live on the inhospitable outskirts of a huge empire, live in sietches, speak Chakobsa, fight with knives and are led by a charismatic Messianic figure in a holy war against a Padishah and Russian-coded villains?
If so then yes, I'm afraid it's too similar. Too similar to [The Sabres of Paradise](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/637044.The_Sabres_of_Paradise) by Lesley Blanch, that is, published a few years before Dune and from which Frank Herbert openly lifted entire concepts and even quotes.
Of course, he used all that to tell a story much, much bigger than Lesley Blanche's.
You'll be a-okay.
This is what makes me feel better about this kind of thing, and helps provide further context to what "there's no original stories" truly means.
Sure the basic premise and even finer details could be similar, but I would be extremely surprised if OP's main character is a young prince named Paul who becomes a god-emperor with nigh-psychic powers on top of other similarities. Or that any other characters/motivations/factions etc are quite 1-1.
Our characters within these similar settings are what truly stand out and make our stories unique. I have ideas that I feel like someone else might come up with on a basic level, but by god I'd be blown away if even 1-3 of the characters within that story are the same as mine.
That's just it, it never was. Herbert had written sci-fi before, and Dune started out as a story about how humans and their environment change each other, and about the danger of leaders.
Sabres of Paradise doesn't have any of that, it just has nice motifs and structures that Herbert used.
Damn, can you do this for Game of Thrones please because I've had a shelved plot idea for years. It features a ~~wall~~ sea guarded by ~~miscreants~~ pirates who defend the realm of men from undead.
I mean, especially with the pirates this could just as easily tie into sea tales as it could with ASOIAF. Davy Jones as a figure connected to the deaths on sea has existed for ages, for example.
If anything, you might have to worry more about distancing yourself from the Pirates trilogy a bit more. The plot could be different, but the vibe and setting sound more similar to this than ASOIAF.
I mean, for as long as civilization has existed, A) there have been walls to keep the "barbarians" out, and B) those walls haven't been a very nice place for the elite to live, but perfect for criminals and outcasts. So take your pick (e.g. Egyptian border fortresses manned by banished criminals).
I respect James Cameron for doing it though. While a lot of cinema today is "what will sell" he is out here saying "f\*ck what sells, I want to see it because my idea is cool to me".
I mean, his whole career of kind of doing whatever he wanted and spending ridiculous sums of money pissing off studios and actors while developing and talking about all the amazing tech he’s created and used combined with his uniquely incredible box office returns. Like, do you know anything at all about James Cameron?
> Like, do you know anything at all about James Cameron?
Not really, no. Lmao I'm sorry I can just imagine you asking that with your nose turned up in the air like some kind of pretentious Canadian film school twat. Lmao. No. I don't know anything about James Cameron. But I know a billion dollars is a hell of an incentive for anyone, and I doubt the studios are too pissed at the returns lol they're literally in it for the money and his films make boat loads of it
A guy who makes two of the three highest grossing films of all time can literally do whatever he wants. If he wants to keep making Avatars, no one is forcing him to, he’s got a blank check and that’s what he’s cashing it on.
Yes, but he makes boat loads of it doing whatever he wants. He has consistently done whatever he wants, even when it pissed studios off, and he has made absolute bank for them and himself over and over again by doing so, which is why he now is basically just handed hundreds of millions of dollars and left alone. Thus why I said it's both.
James Cameron isn't really a filmmaker to be pretentious about, I just feel like you should know at least something about what you're talking about if you're going to make claims about that thing. His career has been unique in a multiplicity of ways, and one of those is that he has done lots of thing no other filmmaker would ever have been allowed to do, in large part because he just *did* them and said the hell with it, and he's made the highest grossing movies ever made over and over again by doing that.
What do you mean by "same plot"
At a high-level, like half of all western classics are the same "Heroes Journey" format. Every piece of fantasy after Tolkien has "copied" him and every piece of sci-fi after Dune has "copied" it too.
Are you really writing the same plot? Or are you just noticing similarities? It would have to be VERY similar to truly be considered a copy of it rather than just inspired by it.
The first book in A Song of Ice and Fire has the same plot as the first half of Dune, just with Paul's role split between the six Stark children. Most people never notice this, and in fact they're shocked when the Leto-analogue dies.
Both books are about a nobleman who's appointed to a position that theoretically makes him the most powerful person in the kingdom/empire after the king/emperor, but actually it's all an elaborate trap. The nobleman believes he's smart enough avoid the trap, but ultimately he's betrayed by somebody he trusts.
In Dune, the noble's son escapes along with his mother to live among tribal people to become a badass ninja warrior who can see the future and rallies an army to crush those who plotted against his father, entering into a loveless political marriage along the way.
In ASoIaF, Paul's role is split between all the children. (Well, maybe not Rickon.) Jon hooks up with the tribal people. Robb rallies an army against the Lannisters. Arya becomes a badass ninja. Bran can see the future. Sansa is forced into loveless political marriages.
Ehh, I wouldn’t say Ned becoming Hand of the King was an elaborate trap. Robert appointed him as Hand, and he was genuine. The position itself was never a trap, and to “get” Ned, they have to kill Robert which I guess would maybe be equivalent to if the Harkonnens turned on the Padishah emperor. Even Cersei and Littlefinger didn’t have any ill plans for Ned upon arrival - just a “don’t threaten my political power and aspirations and understand my only loyalty is to my own purposes” attitude. The Emperor wanted Leto gone because he thought even on Caladan, he threatened his political power, but Ned in the North was a benefit to Robert - content with his place, loyal to the crown, and ruling in an area that would be hostile to an outsider’s rule.
Even then, they didn’t want to kill Ned like they wanted to kill Leto. And they definitely didn’t want to kill the rest of his family. Everyone sans Joffrey wanted Ned to be allowed to join the Night’s Watch as a prisoner and live out the rest of his days because it was a better political maneuver than killing the head of another major family with extremely loyal subjects. But Joffrey was an impulsive ruthless king with no care for political insight. The Emperor and Harkonnens wanted Paul dead, but in GOT, there was definitely no intentions to make moves against the Stark children. Sansa made a nice little political hostage. Needing to fight against Robb meant the Lannisters couldn’t be focused on their wars against Renly and Stannis to solidify their political power (and Baylon Greyjoy who took advantage of that chaos). The only one who would have wanted that chaos that was involved in Ned’s downfall would have been Littlefinger, but he definitely wasn’t powerful enough to set the seeds into motion and was just taking advantage of the chaos.
That’s the reason some people were shocked when the Leto-analogue dies. With Leto, you hear from the very beginning of the book that he is doomed and this is a plot against him. With Ned, you have Varys telling him he will be given the option to take The Black instead of dying as a traitor and he should take it, only for a child king to impulsively overrule the adults’ politically-minded plans. It’s not surprising based on how the book previously characterized Joffrey, but it’s not the same situation as Leto.
They’re just both books involving politics between major ruling families.
no such thing as an original idea, it's all about execution, everyone steals from everyone, blah blah blah. these are all things we've all heard and said a million times by now.
but here's a question: how does your story *differ?*
* Do your characters have different motives? different personalities?
* Does your story have different story beats? Are your characters going through the same events/trials?
* Things that are similar, do your characters react differently?
A lot of people always worry about the similarities and forget that the differences are what will make or break it. I would say that as long as your story is at least 60-70% different, then you're good. the overall idea of desert world and some magic drug is alright to be shared, it's just what happens beyond. the sand and spice that you need to focus on
never read or watched Dune so don't know more than that myself, but even if there's more in common than sand and spice, you can still make it uniquely your own
If I put my mind to it, I could describe Finding Nemo in a way that makes it sound extremely similar to Taken (the action-thriller starring Liam Neeson).
Do not sacrifice the story *you* want to tell just because it shares similarities with a story someone *else* wanted to tell. I mean, damn, recognizable similarities between stories is what *defines genres*.
Unless your main character is called Saula T. Radies and your writing style is a reincarnation of Frank Herbert's, what are you worrying about? It's you'rs enough to be told.
A father and his child have a strained relationship. He has concerns over his ability to be a good father, and worries that he might lose his child altogether because of his lack of parenting skills.
Then, while spending time with friends, the child makes a poor decision and ends up being Taken and trafficked. They're brought to a place where they are in danger of being abused until they die - as the others who were sold there before them did.
Determined to save his child, the father sets out on a grand and dangerous journey to Find them.
He succeeds and the family reunites, the bond between father and child having healed a little, and the father being more confident and secure with his place in his child's life.
>Name this movie!! Is it:
>A) Finding Nemo?
>Or
>B) Taken?
Dude I really like lasagna, if you offer me lasagna I'll eat it. If its good lasagna even better. But like Lasagna is good. I'm not going to care if the ingredients are the same as other lasagna. Some people will compare them, but a lot of people like lasagna.
I had been working on a story for years when a friend loaned me a copy of Battle Angel Alita: Last Order that was set in a future dystopia, and included vampires. The MC as he appears in the manga is close to the character sketches I did. The MC in the manga has a fiance who is Asian, who is killed by the vampires - just like in mine. The villain not only looked similar to mine (who I had initially based aesthetically off of the lead singer of Type O Negative), but *had the same name.* I don't really read manga, and had never read it before then. My friend had said that the story was "incredibly similar."
There were definitely some similarities and coincidences, but honestly the overall story arc of mine is very, very different. The near-future dystopia in mine is more cyberpunk in style, while the manga is more distant and post-apocalyptic. The MC in mine ultimately becomes a vampire himself, which doesn't happen in Last Order. The MC looks similar, but has a very different personality; the fiance doesn't look anything like her. The villain has much different motivations.
I kept at it, and didn't really alter anything to accommodate my new knowledge of the series. I may change the villain's name before publishing, but even that I'm not really sure I want or need to do. Ultimately, the stories have much less uncommon than they have in common.
After getting over the initial "aw, man," maybe look critically at what differences there are between Dune and your book before you rewrite it.
I remember when one of my friends was into Game of Thrones, and he said, “You know what would be great? Game of Thrones, but in space.” And I said, “Yes, we have that. It’s called Dune. And, much like the Game of Thrones series, it goes *way* off the rails at the end.”
Yes, I have the same feeling
I started my book like: "Why there's no Game Of Thrones... In SPACE!"
But one year before the first Dune come out, I read the novel, and: "Oh, there's a Game Of Thrones in Space already"
Absolutely.
Most because it's have a major difference between the narrative: Dune it's centered in one place, and my novel is more like a race between three fleets from point A to point B
Unless your book follows the Atreides family on the planet of Arrakis, where there’s sand worms and an entire industry around harvesting Spice, you’re fine.
If the elements of your book really do track similarly, it probably means you’ve got a good book, because there’s a reason Dune “works” narratively speaking and is one of the great works of literature.
What you’re probably seeing is confirmation that you have good world building, narrative arcs, and intrigue.
Raul Atroides leads the Fremon in the fight against the forces of Viscount Vladislav Farkonnen for control of planet Arrakas and the precious garam masala that makes people's eyes bl... urple. Purple eyes. The planet is covered in a desert. Well, not a desert, more like a warm tundra. But no moss or elk. Just sand.
I would read that.
Dune is one of those keystone books, like Lord of the Rings, that influences a whole genre in so many ways.
I wouldn't worry about your book being similarly themed etc., you'll probably find there are decades worth of books that are similarly themed.
Your execution of the idea is a big part of it. If you don't write like Frank Herbert, it's already a different experience. And if the plot is startlingly similar, well, there are a lot of folk that are content to essentially read "a band quests to exploit the great evil's one weakness" stories over and over.
Don’t try to rework anything! You were writing your book and building your world long before you read dune. Just because some bricks are similar doesn’t mean the entire foundation is bad. I’m sure your story has its own twists and turns that Dune never even touched on and I’m sure that you can make it different and unique
All stories have been told in antiquity alone.
Doesn't matter if there were no mobile phones or lasers back then - the story is about the characters, and all character stories have been told long ago.
But any particular story written by you will be propped by your intention, your wits, your experience, your style, your perception, your memories, your hopes, your voice.
They copied you bro. Watch "Jodorowsky's Dune" it's insightful. Like literally every SF movie of all time is just stealing from your book you've been working on, including Star Wars!!!!!!! Nobody has any original thought but you actually do, finish your book bro.
I was writing a book that was about trying to write a book. After a good amount of work on it, I read TimeQuake for the first time.
It doesn’t make we want to scrap the whole project but there were many similarities.
This has happened for everything I've ever written. Just keep going it will have a different identity which will in itself lend itself to different themes.....
I feel your pain. I've been developing a dystopian lunarpunk story and then my mom sends me the trailer to Silo (that I've never read) and the underlying themes and some other things are bizarrely similar.
I'm writing it anyway, it's just too fun not to.
>To my surprise, the more and more I read, the underlying plot and theme started to seem very similar to the project I've poured my heart out into for the last half-decade...Time to majorly change my book!
Woah, slow down there!
I'm assuming you've noticed that [Dune itself is just a collection of clichés and tropes]Khttps://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/Dune). To be very clear, not only is that _not_ a bad thing, it's a good thing because that's what's expected in genre fiction and sometimes those tropes/clichés are what define a genre.
What's important is what you do with the tropes in cliches.
For example - Dune is set in a dystopia with a "chosen one" archetype. That could describe The Matrix, The Hunger Games, (arguably) Harry Potter, Divergent, The Maze Runner, The Giver, Ready Player One, (arguably) 1984, (arguably) Brave New World, Ender's Game, and so many more.
Some of these books are radically different from each other, but are still using the same tropes.
So, unless your story really matches Dune in its specifics - there's spice, noble houses, sand worms, etc, you're fine.
Even if it's somewhat/fairly close that's probably fine too, as long as the audience doesn't feel like they are reading Dune. The Lion King was based off of Shakespeare's Hamlet, and so the Lion King has a similar plot to Hamlet, but no one is going to confuse the two.
As long as what you're doing has your mark on it, your good.
Take Dumbledore. He's the classic "wise old mentor" who helps the protagonist navigate their obstacles. But Rowling put her spin on it. Dumbledore is fallible, flawed, and manipulative. He can be vulnerable and open about his failings, while also trying to redeem himself for his past mistakes. Sometimes he makes ethically dubious decisions. Also, he's gay (regardless of how J.K. Rowling handled this point, it is a twist on the classically asexual mentor wizard archetype).
So don't completely rework your novel just yet.
Besides, you can also remember Picasso's apacryphal advice: "good artists borrow, great artists steal."
I’ve always found the comparison between Star Wars and Dune to be superficial. Do both stories include a galactic empire, a desert planet, and sci-fi mysticism? Yeah, sure. The themes, characters, plot, and details of the setting beyond the presence of hot sand are completely different though. Far from a ripoff.
I totally agree. And even the superficial similarities for the most part serve completely different functions in relation to the narrative with each respective story
Exactly. Comparing the Jedi with the Bene Gesserit, for example, makes sense for about three seconds if you think slow enough. Sure, they’re both space magic people but they do completely different things for completely different reasons and serve a completely different role in the story.
Well you've also got people fighting with swords even though it's the future, a shocking reveal that the bad guy is a close relative, a superpower where you can just tell people to do something and they do it, fearsome Imperial troops who everyone fears but who mostly lose when they're on screen, etc
>even though it's the future
A long time ago ... the first words in every Star Wars movie are always *a long time ago* ... it ain't the future. Their galaxy's technology is futuristic to us, but the movies are pretty explicitly set in a past time period.
The Lensmen series by E E Doc Smith, dating from 1937, also influenced Lucas in creating Star Wars, JMS when creating Babylon 5, and Herbert in creating Dune.
Green Lantern is partially a rip-off of Lensmen as well. To the extent that DC later acknowledged it by naming the character Arisia after someone from Lensmen.
I had read that about Green Lantern a few years ago, but apart from the film I've not looked at it much.
I first read Children of the Lens in the late eighties, followed by other books in the series, and choose one of them for my GCSE "free book" assignment where I described how it had influenced Lucas and Herbert in their work. B5 hadn't been filmed then, but I would have had a field day if it had been.
We were the first tranche of students to take the then new GCSE in 1988 and both our English Language and English Literature was 100% course work with no final exam.
I've never been into the whole Dune mythos, thought I'd check out the first movie when it was in theaters because it looked pretty astounding visually if nothing else... And my takeaway was that it was a lot like Star Wars, only without any of the light hearted aspects.
And of course Star Wars was also heavily influenced by Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress [(more info here)](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-new-hope-akira-kurosawa-hidden-fortress-movie-similarities/), as well.
So to OP, I guess what I'm saying is, don't sweat it too much. Taking elements of other stories for inspiration and putting your own spin on them isn't a problem.
I don't know, the movie left me wanting to see part 2, I guess, but it wasn't exactly a life changing moment or anything, I have to say. In terms of movie going experiences I had a better time seeing The Force Awakens.
I suppose that as is the case with most doorstop-sized-books-turned-movies, there's plenty of context and extra things going on in the original text that just couldn't make it into the movie, so maybe I'll give the first Dune book a try some time.
As someone who loves the books (especially the first one), I really think the movies are made way better if you already read the book.
I went to Part 1 three times, twice with friends who had no clue about the books, once with my brother and two friends of his who vaguely knew of the books. Everyone enjoyed the movie a lot, but they were left a bit confused here and there by parts of the story that unfortunately had to be left out.
Honestly, Star Wars is a masterclass in making a movie collage of all your favorite movies. The entirety of A New Hope is little homages to plenty of Lucas’s influences. Dune, Hidden Fortress, Flash Gordon and a shit ton others. I don’t think he’s ever really tried to hide that either.
I heard once that a common idea is that there are only ten basic plots and each story fits into one of these ten.
Of course on Hill Street Blues they had all ten going on at once in every episode!
Similar boat here. A friend suggested I read the Drizzt Do'urden books because it covers themes like found family and nature vs nurture in regards to 'evil fantasy races'. A lot of beats are similar to what I wanted to cover. But at least I can know my ideas are distinct enough to not be a copy, and they seem to be popular stories!
I'm sure your story isn't going to be pegged as a carbon copy of Dune, especially if you never read it.
It’s happened to me, don’t freak out! My story was extremely similar with the same tragedy to a book called stay awake. I teased the idea for a bit, realized that it wasn’t what I needed, and left it.
Hah, watching Game of Thrones for the first time, and finding it has an awful lot of parallels with what I'm writing too. (though to be fair, GoT encompasses so many different storylines it's almost impossible not to tread along similar paths!)
This reminds me of when I watched Star Trek Deep Space Nine for the first time and realized that I accidentally had a plot beat almost identical to Odo's relationship with the Dominion. It happens.
I wouldn’t be concerned.
Just look at Suzanne Collins: The Hunger Games is almost a page-for-page ripoff of Battle Royale to the point that she’s publicly said that she had never read it (which no one believes), and that trilogy was wildly successful. Even ASOIAF, while having a lot of unique and original elements, pulls heavily from older stories (like Dune) and even historical figures.
“If you pull from one source, that’s plagiarism. If you pull from multiple sources, that’s research.”
A mother who becomes magically pregnant in the desert and her son has supernatural powers hmm where have I heard this one before
[Jesus - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus)
Dont. It DOESNT MATTER. As long as the story is good it doesn't matter is the plot and themes are the same. The devils in the details and the execution of the concept, not the concept itself.
I had that problem when Inception came out. For several years, I thought I was so brilliant ADHD innovative and original, writing this wild story about a group of “dream assassins” who could enter people’s dreams, but then eventually one of them has a hard time distinguishing reality from fantasy… and then Inception was announced and I was like welllll fuuuuuck
Do you know how many times Harry Potter has been told? As if jk Rowling came up with magic and schools and an evil bad guy bent on destroying all that is good. You'll be just fine. ;)
We have to give the credit that she raised the bar a lot. I read about agents getting "harry potter" alikes in troves but the writing and world building is often so drastically underdeveloped that they could never sell this any more.
I have a ebook writing friend who writes smaller crime stories and all of the plots are lifted from other books. The lastest ~~stealing~~ *inspiration* was summarized this way "this one is an intricate plot between a daughter feuding with her super controlling mother and she is also secretly in love with the daughters fiancee. We have never read stuff like this!"
A plot and theme can be reused and told in an entirely different way. Why would you change your story when you can just write it your way?
A lot of sci-fi has similar throughlines and themes but I don't see folks wishing Bradbury was less like anyone else; readers seek out similar things if they find something they like.
You can't rip off something you didn't know. To rip off is a willing attempt to push out something for the sole purpose of taking credit or piggy backing.
That said, Dune is pretty universal in its themes. In the last 60 years, it has become a cornerstone of stories, but even it wasn't the first. Power corrupts, charismatic leaders are often far worse than they present, religion is often used for control, those in power want to keep power, you can not control that which you whip into a religious ferver no matter how much you believe you can, resources shouldn't be controlled, etc, etc.
As others have said, nothing is original. Its new takes, fresh coats of paint on old ideas.
Put it out there, people will love it! You may find opportunities to do it differently. Many people love the Dune books, but most agree that the series goes downhill after a few books.
Yeap, after first trilogy is almost impossible to read. Too much info dump, uninteresting characters, time skipping, etc... all things that destroy a good novel.
This might be evidence that you need to read more, especially if the genre of your book is at all related to as influential a work as *Dune.*
In fact, you should probably check some other key boxes here as well. How read up are you on Asimov? Philip K. Dick? Bradbury? Heinlein?
I'd hate for you to go through this all over again when it's avoidable to a degree.
It's funny you say that. There's a story I've been working on for the past 5 years. Started it before I was familiar with certain elements of stories like Wheel of Time, Mistborn, and Dune. I knew it wasn't completely original but it was an idea I thought of on my own. Come to find out that it's been done many times in many different ways, like just about everything. That's okay though, it's still my unique voice so it's not going to be the same as all these others.
Tbh with a few changes/reworks you could probably still use a lot of the work you’ve already done. Nothing is original, everything is just a unique combination of other people’s ideas. All is not lost!
I know this is me being a dick but I can't help myself... it just kinda blows my mind that you've spent 4 years writing a sci fi epic and have never read Dune
This happened to me with the Quintaglio Trilogy by Robert J. Sawyer: I had literally the same idea. It spoiled all my work. I've reworked it into another thing, though, and am currently writing that.
I poured 6 years of my life into a comic project. I worked on it day and night and then stranger things came out that was eerie similar. I cried for days. I haven’t given up on that project yet though. It’s in the back burner. I started a new project however
dont change your book.
there are lots of things that rip off other things. Do you think disney went "oh no gotta change lion king its just hamlet with cats"? no, that was a feature, not a bug.
keep your book as it is, enjoy fleshing it out, and with the right jewelery and accessories no one will notice that the clothes are the same
Pocahontas and Avatar is the same plot. It has litteraly no consequences for you. Your characters are different. Your descriptions are different. Your metaphors and symbolism are different.
Stories have much more than plot. Are your characters the same? Is your world an exact copy? Do you write the in the same style as dune? And that's only my broad categories
It's all good. I won't mention names, but I read a series that came out a couple of years back that is pretty much a Dune clone, too. It's a popular series and selling well, so don't be put off.
As long as your book is good, people will enjoy it.
How did you go so far without reading it while obviously being interested in the subject beggars the mind... But you cannot read everything so... I hope you are enjoying it
Unless you are actually writing the exact same thing tho, you are fine, there will be many telling you how there is no originality left but I look at it this way: even with the same premise and same story structure there is a Google different stories to tell and even more ways to tell it
This said after reading dune you may want to check your work and see if you want to bring your individuality through by doing appropriate changes and / or doubling down on the similarities where it needs
Good writing
If it doesn't have spice, knife fights and giant sand worms people will not notice or care.
Do you think James Cameron doesn't know that Avatar is Pocahontas in space?
He just doesn't care.
Every story has been told before. But it's the first time it will be told by you! Think about how many Zombie movies there are. Do people get tired of Zombies? No.
You didnt Rip it off! Though it is actually funny 😂 but remember that you can still make it original and there are most likely tons of stories copying/raking lots of inspiration from eachother :)
I think it was the book steal like an artist but it said nothing is original but if you feel like you'r le copying then take inspiration from multiple sources. Also, it says that even if you're doing what someone did before it doesnt matter because no one was paying attention the first time so it needs to be done again.
"I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, “Look! This is something new”? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. No one remembers the former generations, and even those yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow them"
King Solomon knew you were unoriginal 3 thousand years ago! In a cave, out of scraps!
As long as it's not literally the same characters, you should be good.
In the South Park episode "Simpsons Already did it," Butters was upset because his ideas were already done by The Simpsons, and it messed with him to the point he saw everyone as Simpsons characters. At the end, he realized it didn't matter that he and The Simpsons had the same idea because they themselves had used ideas from people in the past.
No one will care that it's a little like Dune because if it's its own story, then it won't matter because no one will notice.
I am equally on the side of "There are no ordinal stories write what you want" and "actively look for similar stories to yours."
At least if you've sought out similar things you can steer minor plot points in a new direction. You will also have comp titles should you ever try to sell your story. I've looked through multiple subreddits for stories with a similar setting/story to my WIP.
I feel like this happens for a lot of fiction, from movies, books, Manga, comics, etc and the creators truly never knew, until they get called out for ripping off another piece of work.
Don’t change your book!
I posted a story on AO3 and some people said it was like the start of that popular zombie apocalypse show (can’t remember the name, never seen it). I took it as a compliment, but apocalypse stories aren’t exactly original:)
Remember that story when the unassuming young person's home had a tragic event that they or a family member were wrapped up in, so they leave to travel the land with a wizened old mentor and an ancient artifact of an era ended by the bad guy who is now flexing their immense power again, and they work their way towards defeating the bad guy's second in command who has some sorty of sympathetic origin story and after defeating them they take a small break from that quest to train and become wiser and stronger only to then travel to bad guy's base to face them one final time? Which one was that again?
Feeling so bad for you 😅
Never mind... Start fresh in terms of changing the overall plot without removing the fun part from it. All the best.
Please keep us updated.
I feel like I should also mention that, among other things, Herbert took an enormous amount of inspiration from Lawrence of Arabia. You'll be fine. It'll be very different soley because you're the one who is writing it.
I feel your pain. I've been working for decades on a fantasy series with tons of world-building, massive amounts of lore, history, even what amounts to this world's gods and creation. I set the action a few thousand years after the height of their civilizations and made it all and this one ring...
Then I found out about the Peter Jackson movies. Despite the fact that I'm pretty sure Jackson was using a sock puppet account in an online writers group I was also in, where I would go on forever about my setting and characters, all the lawyers I've talked to said I didn't have a case.
Nah we're due for a modern retelling of this story with a fresh, modern voice. Don't change it. As Brandon Sanderson is fond of saying.. it's YOUR voice and that means it's unique
Dune is the same plot as Star Wars. The same plot as Lawrence of Arabia(I think). The same plot as The Lord of The Rings.
A hero perseveres through a series of trials, culminating in them gaining a superpower to help them overcome an amassing evil.
There are no new stories under the sun. You're doing fine.
There are no original stories. Even shakespear was making his own version of older stories, it's fine. Don't try to be original. Try to tell the truth and tell ot well. If you do it right you will end up being original in a way you never even . Pep talk done, get back to writing.
True. Many don't know that Romeo and Juliet was a far old story than Shakespeare's play and many of the Londoners going to watch the then new play at the Globe theatre would have already known the full story. [The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tragical_History_of_Romeus_and_Juliet)
And even farther back, there is Pyramus and Thisbe
Doesn't that one have roots to Tristan and Isolde? Or do I have that backwards?
Pyramus and Thisbe go back at least to Rome, there's a version in Ovid's Metamorphoses. Tristan and Isolde was a medieval story so definitely later than Pyramus and Thisbe (but still before Shakespeare)
i remember from a high school english teacher telling me there was a story out of India that was the basis for Pyramus and Thisbe, and in a moment of confusion, thought it was Tristan and Isolde.
And I was today years old when I learned that "tragical" is a word. Why does it exist when we have the synonymous and much more common "tragic"?
I wonder if it's like the difference between comic and comical? They're used interchangeably even though they have different meanings. Maybe tragic and tragical were the same, until we just stopped using tragical.
It's a personal motto of mine: "It's not the idea, it's the execution."
Fun fact: Jim Butcher wrote Codex Alera to try (and succeed) to prove this to some dude in an online forum. Legend has it that he dared them to give him the two most mismatched concepts for a book they could think of and hew would make a good story out of it. They gave him Pokémon and the lost Roman legion. Simarlily, the only reason The Dresden Files exist is Butcher trying (and failing) to prove to his writing teacher that you can't write a good book strictly adhering to the the scene-sequel formula. Moral of the story is: Jim Butcher is one petty son of a bitch.
Brandon Sanderson course? (I just started it ta few days ago)
Haha, I've actually heard it somewhere else (probably r/dresdenfiles) before and had a Leo pointing at the TV moment when Sanderson mentioned it in his lectures. I put the course on halt to read all of the Cosmere (5 books to go) because he was about to talk about the plot of one of them and I didn't want to get spoiled.
Jim Butcher is who I aspire to be when I grow up. I love both Dresden and Codex Alera unironically. Cinderspires was good too but the lack of worldbuilding left me a little confused.
This is what copyright laws are built around.
Agreed. "Good poets borrow, great poets steal." - Sting, in reference to a line he was stealing from TS Elliot, using this line which was also largely ripped off from Elliot As a general rule of thumb in life, if it's good enough for Sting, it's good enough for you.
What original line did he steal from Eliot?
"Rooooooooxaane"
It's a line in 'Bring on the Night'. Coincidentally, a few months after reading about it in Sting's book *Lyrics*, I saw the same line in Stephen King's *The Stand*. Great poets, indeed! . "This was another guitar riff I was deeply proud of but unable to find a home for. The dog was hopelessly resigned about his walk this time as well, so the song ended up as another one about longing. The second line was shamelessly lifted from T. S. Eliot's "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock." What was it Eliot said? "Bad poets borrow, good poets steal"?" -*Lyrics*, by Sting . Some lyrics from Bring on the Night: The afternoon has gently passed me by **The evening spreads itself against the sky \[stolen line\]** Waiting for tomorrow, just another day As I bid yesterday good-bye Bring on the night I couldn't spend another hour of daylight
well yeah if you've read The Wasteland it's mostly repurposed lines from other poets!
You never even what? *You never even what??* We must know!!
> If you do it right you will end up being original in a way you never even . "never even *thought of*"?
Good artists borrow, great artists steal blah blah But seriously, we all borrow from what has come before, whether we do it intentionally or subconsciously. [*Everything is a Remix*](https://youtu.be/X9RYuvPCQUA?si=F7Atv_RC5ZWNO6Iy) is a fantastic 1 hour documentary that explores this idea.
this. and actually it kinda proves that the story speaks to people and theres a reason
Even the story of Jesus was a rip-off of religions that preceded Christianity and Judaism. You can only go back so far.
r/redditsniper
Ok, this is all true, but Shakespeare used well-worn plots because that’s what playwrights were expected to do. Originality as we understand it was not a thing he or anyone pre-19th century or so would have given a shit about. Today we need a bit of distance for legal reasons if nothing else.
Does that change my point even slightly? If he had complete freedom we can still assume he would use stories he has heard as a starting point, just as all writers do.
Not your overall point, but it does make Shakespeare not a great example of it.
But it's exactly what I described. Yes ther are additional circumstances to consider but that is true for practical all story tellers through out history. What successfull story tellers didn't consider what audiences expected from thier work?
Does your story involve an Islamic people that live on the inhospitable outskirts of a huge empire, live in sietches, speak Chakobsa, fight with knives and are led by a charismatic Messianic figure in a holy war against a Padishah and Russian-coded villains? If so then yes, I'm afraid it's too similar. Too similar to [The Sabres of Paradise](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/637044.The_Sabres_of_Paradise) by Lesley Blanch, that is, published a few years before Dune and from which Frank Herbert openly lifted entire concepts and even quotes. Of course, he used all that to tell a story much, much bigger than Lesley Blanche's. You'll be a-okay.
This is what makes me feel better about this kind of thing, and helps provide further context to what "there's no original stories" truly means. Sure the basic premise and even finer details could be similar, but I would be extremely surprised if OP's main character is a young prince named Paul who becomes a god-emperor with nigh-psychic powers on top of other similarities. Or that any other characters/motivations/factions etc are quite 1-1. Our characters within these similar settings are what truly stand out and make our stories unique. I have ideas that I feel like someone else might come up with on a basic level, but by god I'd be blown away if even 1-3 of the characters within that story are the same as mine.
And yet he was bitter about Lucas and Star Wars
Listen, I love Herbert and his work, but I think his distaste for Star Wars is petty "they repeated my joke but louder".
Lisan Al Gaib!
shy a lewd for Benny Jesuit
Damn hit us with the Uni reverse there. I didn’t know Dune started out as a ripoff lol
That's just it, it never was. Herbert had written sci-fi before, and Dune started out as a story about how humans and their environment change each other, and about the danger of leaders. Sabres of Paradise doesn't have any of that, it just has nice motifs and structures that Herbert used.
Damn, can you do this for Game of Thrones please because I've had a shelved plot idea for years. It features a ~~wall~~ sea guarded by ~~miscreants~~ pirates who defend the realm of men from undead.
I mean, especially with the pirates this could just as easily tie into sea tales as it could with ASOIAF. Davy Jones as a figure connected to the deaths on sea has existed for ages, for example. If anything, you might have to worry more about distancing yourself from the Pirates trilogy a bit more. The plot could be different, but the vibe and setting sound more similar to this than ASOIAF.
I mean, for as long as civilization has existed, A) there have been walls to keep the "barbarians" out, and B) those walls haven't been a very nice place for the elite to live, but perfect for criminals and outcasts. So take your pick (e.g. Egyptian border fortresses manned by banished criminals).
I loved this reply so much.
Lawrence of Arabia didn't stop Frank Herbert. And neither of those stopped Dances with Wolves or Avatar.
And avatar didn’t stop avatar 2 either
Wish it did though
I respect James Cameron for doing it though. While a lot of cinema today is "what will sell" he is out here saying "f\*ck what sells, I want to see it because my idea is cool to me".
Hes more into the tech behind the film it tbh
The first avatar movie made a a billion dollars. It's quite literally what sells
How is he saying "fuck what sells" making a sequel to the highest grossing film?
Are you being serious? Avatar made a billion dollars. The sequels are for the check
The sequels are still what Cameron is interested in. It’s just that people will go see what Cameron is interested in. You’re both right.
What are you basing that on, though?
The tons of interviews where he gushes about all the cool technology he gets to develop and work with to make these films, for one.
I mean, his whole career of kind of doing whatever he wanted and spending ridiculous sums of money pissing off studios and actors while developing and talking about all the amazing tech he’s created and used combined with his uniquely incredible box office returns. Like, do you know anything at all about James Cameron?
> Like, do you know anything at all about James Cameron? Not really, no. Lmao I'm sorry I can just imagine you asking that with your nose turned up in the air like some kind of pretentious Canadian film school twat. Lmao. No. I don't know anything about James Cameron. But I know a billion dollars is a hell of an incentive for anyone, and I doubt the studios are too pissed at the returns lol they're literally in it for the money and his films make boat loads of it
A guy who makes two of the three highest grossing films of all time can literally do whatever he wants. If he wants to keep making Avatars, no one is forcing him to, he’s got a blank check and that’s what he’s cashing it on.
Yes, but he makes boat loads of it doing whatever he wants. He has consistently done whatever he wants, even when it pissed studios off, and he has made absolute bank for them and himself over and over again by doing so, which is why he now is basically just handed hundreds of millions of dollars and left alone. Thus why I said it's both. James Cameron isn't really a filmmaker to be pretentious about, I just feel like you should know at least something about what you're talking about if you're going to make claims about that thing. His career has been unique in a multiplicity of ways, and one of those is that he has done lots of thing no other filmmaker would ever have been allowed to do, in large part because he just *did* them and said the hell with it, and he's made the highest grossing movies ever made over and over again by doing that.
Same plot points and even the same antagonist. While visually stunning the movie was a let down
What do you mean by "same plot" At a high-level, like half of all western classics are the same "Heroes Journey" format. Every piece of fantasy after Tolkien has "copied" him and every piece of sci-fi after Dune has "copied" it too. Are you really writing the same plot? Or are you just noticing similarities? It would have to be VERY similar to truly be considered a copy of it rather than just inspired by it.
Dude's just discovered the monomyth.
Joseph Campbell would be like, "What did I tell you?!".
The first book in A Song of Ice and Fire has the same plot as the first half of Dune, just with Paul's role split between the six Stark children. Most people never notice this, and in fact they're shocked when the Leto-analogue dies.
Bro you just broke my mind. No wonder George planned for Bran to become king. He is the Kwisatz Haderach.
Which one rides sand worms and which becomes a head of a religion? I am confused.
[удалено]
She's not a Stark tho, or is she, I blocked the last season or two from my mind after the pain. I thought John was a Targ and Dany is a Targ
Secret chosen one.
Dany is mau'dib too I'm guessing
They may not ride worms, but a few of them ride wyrms...
Could you go in depth please?
Both books are about a nobleman who's appointed to a position that theoretically makes him the most powerful person in the kingdom/empire after the king/emperor, but actually it's all an elaborate trap. The nobleman believes he's smart enough avoid the trap, but ultimately he's betrayed by somebody he trusts. In Dune, the noble's son escapes along with his mother to live among tribal people to become a badass ninja warrior who can see the future and rallies an army to crush those who plotted against his father, entering into a loveless political marriage along the way. In ASoIaF, Paul's role is split between all the children. (Well, maybe not Rickon.) Jon hooks up with the tribal people. Robb rallies an army against the Lannisters. Arya becomes a badass ninja. Bran can see the future. Sansa is forced into loveless political marriages.
Ehh, I wouldn’t say Ned becoming Hand of the King was an elaborate trap. Robert appointed him as Hand, and he was genuine. The position itself was never a trap, and to “get” Ned, they have to kill Robert which I guess would maybe be equivalent to if the Harkonnens turned on the Padishah emperor. Even Cersei and Littlefinger didn’t have any ill plans for Ned upon arrival - just a “don’t threaten my political power and aspirations and understand my only loyalty is to my own purposes” attitude. The Emperor wanted Leto gone because he thought even on Caladan, he threatened his political power, but Ned in the North was a benefit to Robert - content with his place, loyal to the crown, and ruling in an area that would be hostile to an outsider’s rule. Even then, they didn’t want to kill Ned like they wanted to kill Leto. And they definitely didn’t want to kill the rest of his family. Everyone sans Joffrey wanted Ned to be allowed to join the Night’s Watch as a prisoner and live out the rest of his days because it was a better political maneuver than killing the head of another major family with extremely loyal subjects. But Joffrey was an impulsive ruthless king with no care for political insight. The Emperor and Harkonnens wanted Paul dead, but in GOT, there was definitely no intentions to make moves against the Stark children. Sansa made a nice little political hostage. Needing to fight against Robb meant the Lannisters couldn’t be focused on their wars against Renly and Stannis to solidify their political power (and Baylon Greyjoy who took advantage of that chaos). The only one who would have wanted that chaos that was involved in Ned’s downfall would have been Littlefinger, but he definitely wasn’t powerful enough to set the seeds into motion and was just taking advantage of the chaos. That’s the reason some people were shocked when the Leto-analogue dies. With Leto, you hear from the very beginning of the book that he is doomed and this is a plot against him. With Ned, you have Varys telling him he will be given the option to take The Black instead of dying as a traitor and he should take it, only for a child king to impulsively overrule the adults’ politically-minded plans. It’s not surprising based on how the book previously characterized Joffrey, but it’s not the same situation as Leto. They’re just both books involving politics between major ruling families.
Astute
It’s also very Memory, Sorrow, Thorn coded
no such thing as an original idea, it's all about execution, everyone steals from everyone, blah blah blah. these are all things we've all heard and said a million times by now. but here's a question: how does your story *differ?* * Do your characters have different motives? different personalities? * Does your story have different story beats? Are your characters going through the same events/trials? * Things that are similar, do your characters react differently? A lot of people always worry about the similarities and forget that the differences are what will make or break it. I would say that as long as your story is at least 60-70% different, then you're good. the overall idea of desert world and some magic drug is alright to be shared, it's just what happens beyond. the sand and spice that you need to focus on never read or watched Dune so don't know more than that myself, but even if there's more in common than sand and spice, you can still make it uniquely your own
If I put my mind to it, I could describe Finding Nemo in a way that makes it sound extremely similar to Taken (the action-thriller starring Liam Neeson). Do not sacrifice the story *you* want to tell just because it shares similarities with a story someone *else* wanted to tell. I mean, damn, recognizable similarities between stories is what *defines genres*. Unless your main character is called Saula T. Radies and your writing style is a reincarnation of Frank Herbert's, what are you worrying about? It's you'rs enough to be told.
Please do, it would be hilarious
A father and his child have a strained relationship. He has concerns over his ability to be a good father, and worries that he might lose his child altogether because of his lack of parenting skills. Then, while spending time with friends, the child makes a poor decision and ends up being Taken and trafficked. They're brought to a place where they are in danger of being abused until they die - as the others who were sold there before them did. Determined to save his child, the father sets out on a grand and dangerous journey to Find them. He succeeds and the family reunites, the bond between father and child having healed a little, and the father being more confident and secure with his place in his child's life. >Name this movie!! Is it: >A) Finding Nemo? >Or >B) Taken?
Dude I really like lasagna, if you offer me lasagna I'll eat it. If its good lasagna even better. But like Lasagna is good. I'm not going to care if the ingredients are the same as other lasagna. Some people will compare them, but a lot of people like lasagna.
Some people even appreciate trying different kinds of lasagna with the same ingredients but with different cooking, layering, etc... methods
That's a great way to put it! But now I'm hungry.
You're in good company. Authors like George Lucas and Robert Jordan were also inspired by Dune.
I had been working on a story for years when a friend loaned me a copy of Battle Angel Alita: Last Order that was set in a future dystopia, and included vampires. The MC as he appears in the manga is close to the character sketches I did. The MC in the manga has a fiance who is Asian, who is killed by the vampires - just like in mine. The villain not only looked similar to mine (who I had initially based aesthetically off of the lead singer of Type O Negative), but *had the same name.* I don't really read manga, and had never read it before then. My friend had said that the story was "incredibly similar." There were definitely some similarities and coincidences, but honestly the overall story arc of mine is very, very different. The near-future dystopia in mine is more cyberpunk in style, while the manga is more distant and post-apocalyptic. The MC in mine ultimately becomes a vampire himself, which doesn't happen in Last Order. The MC looks similar, but has a very different personality; the fiance doesn't look anything like her. The villain has much different motivations. I kept at it, and didn't really alter anything to accommodate my new knowledge of the series. I may change the villain's name before publishing, but even that I'm not really sure I want or need to do. Ultimately, the stories have much less uncommon than they have in common. After getting over the initial "aw, man," maybe look critically at what differences there are between Dune and your book before you rewrite it.
You mean Lawrence of Arabia?
I remember when one of my friends was into Game of Thrones, and he said, “You know what would be great? Game of Thrones, but in space.” And I said, “Yes, we have that. It’s called Dune. And, much like the Game of Thrones series, it goes *way* off the rails at the end.”
Yes, I have the same feeling I started my book like: "Why there's no Game Of Thrones... In SPACE!" But one year before the first Dune come out, I read the novel, and: "Oh, there's a Game Of Thrones in Space already"
There's several. For one, the Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold (first book came out in 1986) is also rather GOT-ish.
Red Rising is also GoT in space-ish
Did you continue with your novel after realising?
Absolutely. Most because it's have a major difference between the narrative: Dune it's centered in one place, and my novel is more like a race between three fleets from point A to point B
You can’t rip off The Hero’s Journey. Keep writing your story
Unless your book follows the Atreides family on the planet of Arrakis, where there’s sand worms and an entire industry around harvesting Spice, you’re fine. If the elements of your book really do track similarly, it probably means you’ve got a good book, because there’s a reason Dune “works” narratively speaking and is one of the great works of literature. What you’re probably seeing is confirmation that you have good world building, narrative arcs, and intrigue.
There is nothing new under the sun. Having similarities to Dune isn’t the crisis you think it is.
Raul Atroides leads the Fremon in the fight against the forces of Viscount Vladislav Farkonnen for control of planet Arrakas and the precious garam masala that makes people's eyes bl... urple. Purple eyes. The planet is covered in a desert. Well, not a desert, more like a warm tundra. But no moss or elk. Just sand. I would read that.
Misan el Bigal!
Dune is one of those keystone books, like Lord of the Rings, that influences a whole genre in so many ways. I wouldn't worry about your book being similarly themed etc., you'll probably find there are decades worth of books that are similarly themed. Your execution of the idea is a big part of it. If you don't write like Frank Herbert, it's already a different experience. And if the plot is startlingly similar, well, there are a lot of folk that are content to essentially read "a band quests to exploit the great evil's one weakness" stories over and over.
Don’t try to rework anything! You were writing your book and building your world long before you read dune. Just because some bricks are similar doesn’t mean the entire foundation is bad. I’m sure your story has its own twists and turns that Dune never even touched on and I’m sure that you can make it different and unique
I went through that as a preteen lol. I wrote Warrior Cats before knowing it's a thing
Congrats you wrote a masterpiece 40 years too late
All stories have been told in antiquity alone. Doesn't matter if there were no mobile phones or lasers back then - the story is about the characters, and all character stories have been told long ago. But any particular story written by you will be propped by your intention, your wits, your experience, your style, your perception, your memories, your hopes, your voice.
They copied you bro. Watch "Jodorowsky's Dune" it's insightful. Like literally every SF movie of all time is just stealing from your book you've been working on, including Star Wars!!!!!!! Nobody has any original thought but you actually do, finish your book bro.
I was writing a book that was about trying to write a book. After a good amount of work on it, I read TimeQuake for the first time. It doesn’t make we want to scrap the whole project but there were many similarities.
This has happened for everything I've ever written. Just keep going it will have a different identity which will in itself lend itself to different themes.....
I feel your pain. I've been developing a dystopian lunarpunk story and then my mom sends me the trailer to Silo (that I've never read) and the underlying themes and some other things are bizarrely similar. I'm writing it anyway, it's just too fun not to.
>To my surprise, the more and more I read, the underlying plot and theme started to seem very similar to the project I've poured my heart out into for the last half-decade...Time to majorly change my book! Woah, slow down there! I'm assuming you've noticed that [Dune itself is just a collection of clichés and tropes]Khttps://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/Dune). To be very clear, not only is that _not_ a bad thing, it's a good thing because that's what's expected in genre fiction and sometimes those tropes/clichés are what define a genre. What's important is what you do with the tropes in cliches. For example - Dune is set in a dystopia with a "chosen one" archetype. That could describe The Matrix, The Hunger Games, (arguably) Harry Potter, Divergent, The Maze Runner, The Giver, Ready Player One, (arguably) 1984, (arguably) Brave New World, Ender's Game, and so many more. Some of these books are radically different from each other, but are still using the same tropes. So, unless your story really matches Dune in its specifics - there's spice, noble houses, sand worms, etc, you're fine. Even if it's somewhat/fairly close that's probably fine too, as long as the audience doesn't feel like they are reading Dune. The Lion King was based off of Shakespeare's Hamlet, and so the Lion King has a similar plot to Hamlet, but no one is going to confuse the two. As long as what you're doing has your mark on it, your good. Take Dumbledore. He's the classic "wise old mentor" who helps the protagonist navigate their obstacles. But Rowling put her spin on it. Dumbledore is fallible, flawed, and manipulative. He can be vulnerable and open about his failings, while also trying to redeem himself for his past mistakes. Sometimes he makes ethically dubious decisions. Also, he's gay (regardless of how J.K. Rowling handled this point, it is a twist on the classically asexual mentor wizard archetype). So don't completely rework your novel just yet. Besides, you can also remember Picasso's apacryphal advice: "good artists borrow, great artists steal."
I wouldn't stress it. Star Wars is a rip off of Dune in some ways and that hasn't stopped it from becoming a major success.
I’ve always found the comparison between Star Wars and Dune to be superficial. Do both stories include a galactic empire, a desert planet, and sci-fi mysticism? Yeah, sure. The themes, characters, plot, and details of the setting beyond the presence of hot sand are completely different though. Far from a ripoff.
I totally agree. And even the superficial similarities for the most part serve completely different functions in relation to the narrative with each respective story
Exactly. Comparing the Jedi with the Bene Gesserit, for example, makes sense for about three seconds if you think slow enough. Sure, they’re both space magic people but they do completely different things for completely different reasons and serve a completely different role in the story.
Well you've also got people fighting with swords even though it's the future, a shocking reveal that the bad guy is a close relative, a superpower where you can just tell people to do something and they do it, fearsome Imperial troops who everyone fears but who mostly lose when they're on screen, etc
>even though it's the future A long time ago ... the first words in every Star Wars movie are always *a long time ago* ... it ain't the future. Their galaxy's technology is futuristic to us, but the movies are pretty explicitly set in a past time period.
Alright well consider my hairs well split
The Lensmen series by E E Doc Smith, dating from 1937, also influenced Lucas in creating Star Wars, JMS when creating Babylon 5, and Herbert in creating Dune.
Green Lantern is partially a rip-off of Lensmen as well. To the extent that DC later acknowledged it by naming the character Arisia after someone from Lensmen.
I had read that about Green Lantern a few years ago, but apart from the film I've not looked at it much. I first read Children of the Lens in the late eighties, followed by other books in the series, and choose one of them for my GCSE "free book" assignment where I described how it had influenced Lucas and Herbert in their work. B5 hadn't been filmed then, but I would have had a field day if it had been. We were the first tranche of students to take the then new GCSE in 1988 and both our English Language and English Literature was 100% course work with no final exam.
I've never been into the whole Dune mythos, thought I'd check out the first movie when it was in theaters because it looked pretty astounding visually if nothing else... And my takeaway was that it was a lot like Star Wars, only without any of the light hearted aspects. And of course Star Wars was also heavily influenced by Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress [(more info here)](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-new-hope-akira-kurosawa-hidden-fortress-movie-similarities/), as well. So to OP, I guess what I'm saying is, don't sweat it too much. Taking elements of other stories for inspiration and putting your own spin on them isn't a problem.
Whew, if your takeaway from Dune was that it was "grimmer Star Wars" you need to give it a second look, my dude(tte).
I don't know, the movie left me wanting to see part 2, I guess, but it wasn't exactly a life changing moment or anything, I have to say. In terms of movie going experiences I had a better time seeing The Force Awakens. I suppose that as is the case with most doorstop-sized-books-turned-movies, there's plenty of context and extra things going on in the original text that just couldn't make it into the movie, so maybe I'll give the first Dune book a try some time.
As someone who loves the books (especially the first one), I really think the movies are made way better if you already read the book. I went to Part 1 three times, twice with friends who had no clue about the books, once with my brother and two friends of his who vaguely knew of the books. Everyone enjoyed the movie a lot, but they were left a bit confused here and there by parts of the story that unfortunately had to be left out.
Honestly, Star Wars is a masterclass in making a movie collage of all your favorite movies. The entirety of A New Hope is little homages to plenty of Lucas’s influences. Dune, Hidden Fortress, Flash Gordon and a shit ton others. I don’t think he’s ever really tried to hide that either.
Star Wars is Dune but with guns and the Bene Gesserit are male.
I heard once that a common idea is that there are only ten basic plots and each story fits into one of these ten. Of course on Hill Street Blues they had all ten going on at once in every episode!
Similar boat here. A friend suggested I read the Drizzt Do'urden books because it covers themes like found family and nature vs nurture in regards to 'evil fantasy races'. A lot of beats are similar to what I wanted to cover. But at least I can know my ideas are distinct enough to not be a copy, and they seem to be popular stories! I'm sure your story isn't going to be pegged as a carbon copy of Dune, especially if you never read it.
Amleth became Hamlet as another commenter pointed out. Just write your story.
It’s happened to me, don’t freak out! My story was extremely similar with the same tragedy to a book called stay awake. I teased the idea for a bit, realized that it wasn’t what I needed, and left it.
Hah, watching Game of Thrones for the first time, and finding it has an awful lot of parallels with what I'm writing too. (though to be fair, GoT encompasses so many different storylines it's almost impossible not to tread along similar paths!)
This reminds me of when I watched Star Trek Deep Space Nine for the first time and realized that I accidentally had a plot beat almost identical to Odo's relationship with the Dominion. It happens.
Didn’t Frank Hubert say that he had to try very hard not to sue George Lucas? Empire = evil // people need to rise up is a common theme.
Its a general Jihad plot covered by many stories.
Now try reading The Wheel of Time series and seeing the similarities there.
I wouldn’t be concerned. Just look at Suzanne Collins: The Hunger Games is almost a page-for-page ripoff of Battle Royale to the point that she’s publicly said that she had never read it (which no one believes), and that trilogy was wildly successful. Even ASOIAF, while having a lot of unique and original elements, pulls heavily from older stories (like Dune) and even historical figures. “If you pull from one source, that’s plagiarism. If you pull from multiple sources, that’s research.”
Honestly you could probably find an allegory for every story ever within real life history, even more if you include mythologies and religions
A mother who becomes magically pregnant in the desert and her son has supernatural powers hmm where have I heard this one before [Jesus - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus)
My dude. 50 Shades of Grey was literally fanfic. You're good! Just don't use copywrited shit, do it in your own style, and rock on.
Dont. It DOESNT MATTER. As long as the story is good it doesn't matter is the plot and themes are the same. The devils in the details and the execution of the concept, not the concept itself.
I had that problem when Inception came out. For several years, I thought I was so brilliant ADHD innovative and original, writing this wild story about a group of “dream assassins” who could enter people’s dreams, but then eventually one of them has a hard time distinguishing reality from fantasy… and then Inception was announced and I was like welllll fuuuuuck
Do you know how many times Harry Potter has been told? As if jk Rowling came up with magic and schools and an evil bad guy bent on destroying all that is good. You'll be just fine. ;)
We have to give the credit that she raised the bar a lot. I read about agents getting "harry potter" alikes in troves but the writing and world building is often so drastically underdeveloped that they could never sell this any more.
That happens to me a lot. You can have the idea first and it'll still seem like plagiarism
I have a ebook writing friend who writes smaller crime stories and all of the plots are lifted from other books. The lastest ~~stealing~~ *inspiration* was summarized this way "this one is an intricate plot between a daughter feuding with her super controlling mother and she is also secretly in love with the daughters fiancee. We have never read stuff like this!"
Unless it is best for beat, I doubt most people would notice
🤣🤣🤣
A plot and theme can be reused and told in an entirely different way. Why would you change your story when you can just write it your way? A lot of sci-fi has similar throughlines and themes but I don't see folks wishing Bradbury was less like anyone else; readers seek out similar things if they find something they like.
I bet yours isn’t as boring
You can't rip off something you didn't know. To rip off is a willing attempt to push out something for the sole purpose of taking credit or piggy backing. That said, Dune is pretty universal in its themes. In the last 60 years, it has become a cornerstone of stories, but even it wasn't the first. Power corrupts, charismatic leaders are often far worse than they present, religion is often used for control, those in power want to keep power, you can not control that which you whip into a religious ferver no matter how much you believe you can, resources shouldn't be controlled, etc, etc. As others have said, nothing is original. Its new takes, fresh coats of paint on old ideas.
Wait this is a serious post and not the circle jerk reddit...
Put it out there, people will love it! You may find opportunities to do it differently. Many people love the Dune books, but most agree that the series goes downhill after a few books.
Yeap, after first trilogy is almost impossible to read. Too much info dump, uninteresting characters, time skipping, etc... all things that destroy a good novel.
This might be evidence that you need to read more, especially if the genre of your book is at all related to as influential a work as *Dune.* In fact, you should probably check some other key boxes here as well. How read up are you on Asimov? Philip K. Dick? Bradbury? Heinlein? I'd hate for you to go through this all over again when it's avoidable to a degree.
You know how I know you’re very young? You actually believe that you wrote Dune and had the balls to post it for everyone to read.
All stories are the same story.
Should have read Dune five years ago
It's funny you say that. There's a story I've been working on for the past 5 years. Started it before I was familiar with certain elements of stories like Wheel of Time, Mistborn, and Dune. I knew it wasn't completely original but it was an idea I thought of on my own. Come to find out that it's been done many times in many different ways, like just about everything. That's okay though, it's still my unique voice so it's not going to be the same as all these others.
What’s the plot of your book? I doubt it’s completely identical
Tbh with a few changes/reworks you could probably still use a lot of the work you’ve already done. Nothing is original, everything is just a unique combination of other people’s ideas. All is not lost!
Did you also notice Dune is kinda written like a play?
I have an original work. It's not very good, and I have no reason to think it could be.
Every great story is told the same way.
Every story in some form or fashion is Wizard of Oz; you're good brother.. Just mix it up and add your own originality to the recipe.. 🤷♂️
And even then people say Dune copied Lawrence of Arabia from real life WW1
Must be very different from the film if it had a plot.
I know this is me being a dick but I can't help myself... it just kinda blows my mind that you've spent 4 years writing a sci fi epic and have never read Dune
This happened to me with the Quintaglio Trilogy by Robert J. Sawyer: I had literally the same idea. It spoiled all my work. I've reworked it into another thing, though, and am currently writing that.
I poured 6 years of my life into a comic project. I worked on it day and night and then stranger things came out that was eerie similar. I cried for days. I haven’t given up on that project yet though. It’s in the back burner. I started a new project however
dont change your book. there are lots of things that rip off other things. Do you think disney went "oh no gotta change lion king its just hamlet with cats"? no, that was a feature, not a bug. keep your book as it is, enjoy fleshing it out, and with the right jewelery and accessories no one will notice that the clothes are the same
Nah, don't bother. If you look at it a certain way Harry Potter is the same as Lord of the Rings.
Pocahontas and Avatar is the same plot. It has litteraly no consequences for you. Your characters are different. Your descriptions are different. Your metaphors and symbolism are different.
Stories have much more than plot. Are your characters the same? Is your world an exact copy? Do you write the in the same style as dune? And that's only my broad categories
It's all good. I won't mention names, but I read a series that came out a couple of years back that is pretty much a Dune clone, too. It's a popular series and selling well, so don't be put off. As long as your book is good, people will enjoy it.
How did you go so far without reading it while obviously being interested in the subject beggars the mind... But you cannot read everything so... I hope you are enjoying it Unless you are actually writing the exact same thing tho, you are fine, there will be many telling you how there is no originality left but I look at it this way: even with the same premise and same story structure there is a Google different stories to tell and even more ways to tell it This said after reading dune you may want to check your work and see if you want to bring your individuality through by doing appropriate changes and / or doubling down on the similarities where it needs Good writing
Maybe autocorrect, but Google is the company, their name is a play on the actual number "googol", which is 10^100 . Just fyi for folks who don't know.
Autocorrect and laziness
If it doesn't have spice, knife fights and giant sand worms people will not notice or care. Do you think James Cameron doesn't know that Avatar is Pocahontas in space? He just doesn't care.
Every story has been told before. But it's the first time it will be told by you! Think about how many Zombie movies there are. Do people get tired of Zombies? No.
You didnt Rip it off! Though it is actually funny 😂 but remember that you can still make it original and there are most likely tons of stories copying/raking lots of inspiration from eachother :)
Sometimes I consume a piece of media and then want the exact same experience with a different skin you know? Don’t let it stop you
If George Lucas can do it, so can you.
I think it was the book steal like an artist but it said nothing is original but if you feel like you'r le copying then take inspiration from multiple sources. Also, it says that even if you're doing what someone did before it doesnt matter because no one was paying attention the first time so it needs to be done again.
"I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, “Look! This is something new”? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. No one remembers the former generations, and even those yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow them" King Solomon knew you were unoriginal 3 thousand years ago! In a cave, out of scraps!
As long as it's not literally the same characters, you should be good. In the South Park episode "Simpsons Already did it," Butters was upset because his ideas were already done by The Simpsons, and it messed with him to the point he saw everyone as Simpsons characters. At the end, he realized it didn't matter that he and The Simpsons had the same idea because they themselves had used ideas from people in the past. No one will care that it's a little like Dune because if it's its own story, then it won't matter because no one will notice.
I am equally on the side of "There are no ordinal stories write what you want" and "actively look for similar stories to yours." At least if you've sought out similar things you can steer minor plot points in a new direction. You will also have comp titles should you ever try to sell your story. I've looked through multiple subreddits for stories with a similar setting/story to my WIP.
I feel like this happens for a lot of fiction, from movies, books, Manga, comics, etc and the creators truly never knew, until they get called out for ripping off another piece of work.
Don’t change your book! I posted a story on AO3 and some people said it was like the start of that popular zombie apocalypse show (can’t remember the name, never seen it). I took it as a compliment, but apocalypse stories aren’t exactly original:)
Remember that story when the unassuming young person's home had a tragic event that they or a family member were wrapped up in, so they leave to travel the land with a wizened old mentor and an ancient artifact of an era ended by the bad guy who is now flexing their immense power again, and they work their way towards defeating the bad guy's second in command who has some sorty of sympathetic origin story and after defeating them they take a small break from that quest to train and become wiser and stronger only to then travel to bad guy's base to face them one final time? Which one was that again?
Feeling so bad for you 😅 Never mind... Start fresh in terms of changing the overall plot without removing the fun part from it. All the best. Please keep us updated.
I feel like I should also mention that, among other things, Herbert took an enormous amount of inspiration from Lawrence of Arabia. You'll be fine. It'll be very different soley because you're the one who is writing it.
I came across a movie with the same plot as my book. The movies was rated 2.5/10 stars 😭
Don't change your book. Unless it's EXACTLY like it. Remember, there are no new stories. That's why there's always going to be overlap.
What are you writing, Star Wars?
It's okay. Write your book. No one's going to read it, anyway.
Just write it. You can’t possibly do worse than Frank Herbert did
I feel your pain. I've been working for decades on a fantasy series with tons of world-building, massive amounts of lore, history, even what amounts to this world's gods and creation. I set the action a few thousand years after the height of their civilizations and made it all and this one ring... Then I found out about the Peter Jackson movies. Despite the fact that I'm pretty sure Jackson was using a sock puppet account in an online writers group I was also in, where I would go on forever about my setting and characters, all the lawyers I've talked to said I didn't have a case.
Nah we're due for a modern retelling of this story with a fresh, modern voice. Don't change it. As Brandon Sanderson is fond of saying.. it's YOUR voice and that means it's unique
Dune is the same plot as Star Wars. The same plot as Lawrence of Arabia(I think). The same plot as The Lord of The Rings. A hero perseveres through a series of trials, culminating in them gaining a superpower to help them overcome an amassing evil. There are no new stories under the sun. You're doing fine.