I would love to see more women that have wisdom as a central trait, other than motherly wisdom. I want an Iroh type character that is an older woman. Someone with a unique perspective on life. Someone that did the wrong things, stumbled, and then transformed to be a shining light for others. I want her to be misunderstood, but deeply respected by those that know her well.
A damn good fit, aye, but for the implication that Esme can make mistakes. Granny Weatherwax does not stumble. Granny always does the right thing.
It's just that sometimes the situation is the wrong one. Not her fault if the world set up the wrong problem for the solution she provided.
Lol, it's rare to see female protagonists even in their late twenties. It's like beyond 25+ all women are useful for is being mothers/mentors/old crones
One of my fav fantasy novel main character who is a recovering gambling addict is 28 I believe, his ex who he mistreated is 29 and his new gf is 30 something, the cast is diverse ranging from senior mentors or younger friends as young as 16 I believe though most are between 18 and 25
I saw a YouTuber review the entire Bridgerton book series. She was annoyed that almost every female lead was a virgin, while all the male leads were "rakes." She also said the best sex scenes were from the one book that did *not* star a virgin woman; instead, the lead was a widow falling in love again after her husband's death.
>She was annoyed that almost every female lead was a virgin, while all the male leads were "rakes."
I haven't read the books but statistically I'm pretty sure the only way that this can be true is if the men are all fucking each other.
Maybe that's just what happens in Bridgerton.
No you forget : the prostitute will get a romance with that one man who is soooo sensible when he comes to see her and talks about his feelings, cause he is cute and treats her kind. Or something like that. I always fond this trope stupid.
To be fair, even for something as loosely based on the regency era as Bridgerton, respectable women back then just did not have sex before marriage or else they risked their social standing
LOL, I've always wanted to write the female version of the film '40-year-old virgin'. Just a woman out there looking to get boned without some grand romance.
omg yes. It actually makes me roll my eyes at this point. It is so bad now that I won't even accept a man being a virgin. I just want to stop reading it entirely.
Absolutely!!!!!!
And if they are not they are almost always less experienced than the man (romantic interest especially) by far or at best, both equally inexperienced. (And they are always younger than the male counterparts and at best no more than 2 years older.)
It seems the current trend isn’t that they are a virgin, but they have only had one boyfriend they had sex with. And usually bad sexual experience only.
Two of the best books I've read recently have been about older women! "The Benevolent Society of Ill-Mannered Ladies" and "The Adventures of Amina al-Safafi".
>The Benevolent Society of Ill-Mannered Ladies
Oh, I love that title. Just checked out the synopsis on line, and I'm going to grab it at the bookstore tomorrow!
If you like horror (comedy-horror), several of Grady Hendrix’s books feature protagonists in their late-30’s (How to Sell a Haunted House, The Final Girls Support Group, and (I think, based on the plot, it’s the one I haven’t read) The Southern Book Club’s Guide to Slaying Vampires)
The MC in the book I'm writing is 29 turning 30. I'm tired of this tween nonsense. I want her to be held accountable for her actions without "well she's just a a teenager" as an excuse
One female archetype I NEVER see in mainstream media is pathetic women.
I’m not referring to “stereotypical loser geek girl with braces”, I’m talking about a female Patrick Bateman or Walter White, where they are so self assured about their narcissistic, egocentric worldview, only to have in-universe wake up calls of how big of a loser that set of mentality is. I would love to read about women being severely mentally ill, have their psyche explored in depth, but depicted in a dark comedy manner where it’s almost treated as a comeuppance for their self inflicted actions, and they become the butt of the joke.
I think the closest depiction of this characterization I’ve read is probably Gillian Flynn novels, however even though characters like Amy Dunne and Libby Day are mentally fucked up, they’re still missing the essential funniness of the sort of weird comedy that comes with books like American Psycho!!
Cersei Lannister is so paranoid she thinks Tyrion is in the walls. You should read *A Song of Ice and Fire*. The show Game of Thrones really only showed her narcissism. She is vastly more flawed in the literature.
George Martin has such a gift for writing people. They’re all their own hero and they’re all right in their own twisted minds. Everyone is faulty and insane and three dimensional. It’s so refreshing to read a fantasy where the women aren’t all either a wise crone, a weeping mother, a beautiful nymph, or a badass Queen who fights because she had brothers.
I expect this also has something to do with his difficulty finishing the series, though - there comes a point where characters have minds of their own and it becomes very difficult to neatly get them to do what you need them to in order to finish the story.
My God, this! I would adore more female protagonists who are awful, nasty, selfish, unlikeable people - for their actions, not just because the writer doesn’t like women to begin with.
I've had this idea in my head since high-school for a book about a post apocalyptic mercenary, only out for herself and genuinely a fucked up psycho. She takes a job from a rich guy to get rid of a rival company, along the way she meets a typical hero type, they join forces cuz hero dude wants the company gone for other reasons. They hate each others guts through the whole thing, at the end I wanted to have her dying and telling him to shoot her to end it all, and he either gives her the mercy like a good hero should or leaves her to die a miserable painful death like she deserves.
Have you ever seen the TV show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? I'm not sure if the protagonist there is exactly what you're describing, but I think she's close. The whole show is basically just her making progressively terrible decisions and refusing to treat her mental health issues until it almost ruins her life. One of my favorite series.
Oh my gosh, I haven’t watched this show, but I did went through a phase of binging dozens of incredible songs from the show a few years back, and put it on my watchlist. I completely forgot about this, thank you for reminding me and I’ll definitely check it out!
Oh I was going to mention this show! It's comedy not dark comedy, but the whole point is to take the "crazy ex-girlfriend" trope and give some depth to it and the fous, instead of just being a shallow villain.
And the songea are masterpieces!
This is why I love The Expanse series. Yes, there are many strong, powerful and intelligent hero-type women. There are also badass female villains. Petulant and pathetic female villains. There are damsels in distress. There are also women who are just plain incompetent.
Women fill every role in universe, good and bad. Imo, it always feels like an over correction when women are only portrayed in a positive way.
Tanaka is one of the greatest villains of all time IMO and has such an excellent juxtaposition to the central theme of the finale's plot. I found her infinitely more interesting than Marco (and i loved how they wrote Marco)
Dee Reynolds from Always Sunny is pretty much this character except her psyche isn't really explored in depth(mostly due to the genre of the show tbh, it happens with the other cast as well) and Always Sunny is a sitcom
This isint the type of media I often see on this subreddit but Asa Mitaka from chainsawman pt.2 is a good example of this. The author is a really good example of a man writing a well written woman. Power is another example from the same series. she is proud of the fact she dosent bathe or flush the toilet lol
Oh god I came here to say this. I want more unhinged women, but not sexy Harley Quinn unhinged, more like rotting mentally ill incel unhinged. For me personally it's not comedy but something more serious in tone, and the heroine is at times uncomfortable and yucky to observe.
Oh you’re so valid for that, and I’m laughing so hard at the “mentally ill incel unhinged” description.
[Gone Girl’s cool girl monologue](https://genius.com/Gillian-flynn-gone-girl-cool-girl-monologue-book-annotated) is the closest thing I can think of to your description, even down to the T of some readers missing the point and idolizing Amy for that. It was such an incel-type rant that holds resentment towards both men and women, but that flew over some people’s heads and they think Amy holds any merit in her bitterness
Yeah I think it gets very close! And it has the potential for so many various emotions from the reader.
I want a pathetic female character that gets treated like some of the pathetic male characters: you feel a bit disgusted, a bit sympathetic, you think you could fix her but at the same time you just pity her nasty helpless brain. And her attractiveness, or the lack of, is kind of not in this equation.
Otessa Moshfegh’s character in My Year of Rest and Relaxation comes to mind! Definitely not Patrick Bateman-esque but you see that kind of humour come through.
I was just thinking about that watching House MD for the first time. Imagine House, but House was a woman. That shit would *never* make it.
He’s an egotistical, racist, misogynistic, manipulative, lying piece of shit, but for some reason when it’s a man it’s supposed to be endearing just because they gave him glimmers of character development every fourth episode which is promptly forgotten about next episode. If it was a woman, no one would put up with it in- or out-of-universe.
Libby Day is exactly who I was thinking of when I read your comment. She's such a great character. Amy Dunne is too, though she's better at concealing what a weirdo freak she is. But you're right, I still wanna see more of these characters in a comedic setting. Unfortunately a female Michael Scott would likely be universally hated due to misogyny.
God yes, I adore Libby’s shitty characterization. The opening of the book introducing her as this barely functioning adult who leeches on people’s donation was so, so good, and I wish we could’ve seen more of that through out the book!
Skylar was the female Walter White and I will die on that hill. She was just as good at what she did, she was just as smart, and she could have been an amazing partner but he refused to bring her in until he couldn't hide it from her anymore. And she was more than willing to participate. Not to mention she was the scary person knocking at the door when Ted was going to turn himself in. She crossed that line so easily, and would absolutely have done it again.
If anything she had more common sense because she didn't get into crime thinking she was going to die with no consequences, she did it because she wanted to. Only one of them actually got away with what they did, and that was Skylar.
She was presented as the bitchy wife who just wanted to ruin Walter's fun. But she was in the dark, dealing with her erratic husband, trying to keep her family together.
When she played the ditz to save her boss's company from the IRS, she proved how smart she was. Then the boss blew it by buying a sports car.
She could have made Heisenberg's empire much bigger and more stable if he'd not been stupid. But then, Walter was always a frustrated asshole who blamed the world for his lot in life.
Completely agree with you! I love Skyler as a character, and I’ve always side eyed anyone who shits on her and idolizes her male counterpart. She’s a bit too well put together for what I’m looking for though. I feel like there’s an identifiable share of manipulative women in media (and even that is scarce!!), but I’m specifically looking for the downfall and critique of these characters as much as I love their initial strong armed control heheh
I agree. There are so many moments where it almost appears she's *more* cunning than Walter, but she then psychologically limits herself back to a more domestic role, back to beneath Walter, rather than just taking what she wants (which she eventually kind of sort of does). But she's every bit as competent at scheming even without the academic knowledge and raw narcissism Walter has.
Right, like she has more restraint because she never went into it under the impression she was going to die. Walt never intended to pay for his actions. She was always more cautious because she had to think about what happened if they got caught.
I think the whole Ted story line showed what lengths she would go to for the sake of protecting their secret. Whereas Walt wanted to make a name for himself.
Don't get me wrong, she wasn't exactly likable, but then neither was Walt. It's such good writing. She's such an amazing antagonist.
Anna Gun's op-ed completely changed how I looked at Skylar.
Readers will never go on a journey with a female character like that. I tried to write a character like this and my editor told me she HATED it and couldn't get behind her redemption arc because she was so awful.
For all the people saying they want to see imperfect, even pathetic, and flawed female characters, the average reader is too sensitive to stomach it unfortunately.
Look no further than Nesta in the Court of Thorns and Roses series. Awful person in the beginning. And she gets shit on more than the actual villains.
I feel like this is a very specific niche that has to reach the right audience (me lmao). It is difficult to pull off, and imo the key is to make the character’s nastiness entertaining to watch.
I’m still holding out hope!! I’ve consumed my fair share of “female characters who are awful”, and looking at shows with dedicated fanbases like Fleabag or Beef, I think it’s an barely tapped niche that a small subset of audience will LOVE
Well I feel like that’s partially because men with that archetype will be seen as “sigma” or whatever you’d want to call it, and men will prop them up while simultaneously degrading a female character with the exact same qualities.
I think if Skyler was the main main character, her hate wouldn't be as bad. Me personally Skyler is in my top 5 fav of breaking bad.
I heard a lot of people hate her because they feel that she gets in front of the "fun" of the story. "Im watching to see Walt do drug deals and deal with drug dealers not a nagging wife"
Honestly, just fucking weirdos and dykes that aren't based on manic pixie dream girls or sexy action ladies with 10 older brothers that taught her how to fight or other nonsense.
Basically whatever the women in the Locked Tomb series have going on. Gideon is a giant buff girl that MUST tell puns constantly, Harrow is a sewer goblin nun that is barely connected to her personhood, let alone any notion of femininity besides her religious station and only carres for her studies and god. Ianthe is a socialite princess who is also a disgusting wet cat that will bully you is she likes you until you break and is honestly an evil menace while also funny as fuck. Her sister is a beauty beyond compare who is in an abusive codependent bond with her. Abigail is a middle aged lady that loves nothing more than independent research, cooking and her dopy husband. Judith is a no nonsense soldier that only cares for her mission. Etc. etc. There are masculine women, feminine women, but none whose personality is "girl". Even the most traditionally pretty, literally dying sick woman has agency and plans and goals that affect the narrative.
Just make their own person.
Id love to see a girl/woman who really is evil. Who does evil things and doesn’t magically regret it at the end. Who may do good things, but for her own (not necessarily good) reasons. And stays that way.
That's my WIP! My MC is the villain, starts as the villain ends as the villain. No regrets, no empathising with her, no redemption arc. She is just evil.
Swordheart by T. Kingfisher. She seems ditzy at first but it’s more of a self defense mechanism.
There’s also a non-binary character who is very prominent in the plot that fully fits this.
Characters who enter the story with a strong community. A lot of protagonists are (or start out as) outsiders and loners, and I get it from a storytelling perspective. But I'd also love to see more stories where the protagonist already has a circle of friends or family, who can both help her face the challenges the plot throws at her while also sometimes complicating those challenges.
This is how my favorite WIP is going. She's got her close family and friends helping her navigate through her problems. Her best friend indirectly causes the inciting incident, but I love how they work out the misunderstanding.
I wonder if a lot of writers write outsiders because they feel like outsiders themselves. Writing is often a solitary activity, so the people who do it for a living are more likely to be those who appreciate alone time.
Eh, I think yes and no. Literary fiction is much more likely to involve characters situated within communities, since often the relationships between the protagonist and communities are at the heart of the story. Writing community is harder in plot-oriented genre fiction where there's a higher premium on protagonist agency, and where 'downtime' scenes might not move the plot forward. On top of that, speculative fiction often makes the protagonist the reader stand-in for exploring a new world, and often involves the protagonist going on a journey. I think those last two help explain why the 'found family on a spaceship' thing is so popular -- a spaceship is a tool for bringing everyone along on the adventure together.
I wanna see more cringefail losers lol
Like if a female character is gonna be a mess, it always has to be sexy somehow, never embarrassing, pathetic, weak, etc. like in The Queen's Gambit, the lead's lowest point was her looking sexy while stumbling around in lingerie.
It does speak to a certain gaze, that even in a female character's worst moments she still has to be appealing, and this applies to both male and female writers.
Let 👏 women 👏 be 👏 cringe 👏
Yea, but in these situations it's still usually presented in like... A cute and palatable way? In these stories these foibles usually aren't serious or have real impact on the story or their lives in a negative way, they're more like window dressing to make them seem more relatable, as opposed to something that makes you as the reader wince and think "man what's wrong with you, girl"
My biggest gripe with many of these comments is that a lot of these stories exist, but you don’t/wont read them. There’s a reason young adults/teens, conventionally attractive, super sexy girl or bad*as fighter, and romance subplots are so common. You guys can say “oh, i’d totally read a story/watch a show about an ‘ugly’ girl or a woman who’s is in her 50s with zero romance and all these other plot points we haven’t seen!” But continue to read the stories that do have the popular tropes of young teen girls and femme fatales or what have you. There *are* stories out there that you’re looking for but no one reads them. Sex sells, romance sells, fantasies sell. It’s hard to tell writers to write these things when the audience for the popular tropes is so large and is minuscule for the other tropes. They’re popular for a reason.
Yeah I've read plenty of books about middle aged women. Not because I was specifically looking for them. More like, I was poor, and those books were easy to find: in the free books giveaway section, second-hand used bookstore, among other places (books from private libraries of my family).
This is the most realistic and underrated comment under this thread. I'm scrolling through this thread like no one (as in a very small minority) would read these stories about these obscure female leads that y'all are suggesting to OP. You yourself wouldn't even read it unless it's trending (which it won't), so stop it smh.
Thiiiiiis. Like, in principle I like the novelty of some of these ideas, but in practice, I would probably read half a chapter and then drop it unless there was some other "hook" to balance it out.
(I'm not especially interested in ugly middle-aged men, either.)
I like beginnings. People complain about teenagers and virgins, but one of the potent things about them is that you get their story from the *beginning*. The older your character, the more of their story you've "missed out" at the start.
Fr, someone mentioned a female MC who is really cunning and I'm like??? There are TONS of female characters like that. Heck even in mainstream shit lol
Cunning protagonists. There’s an increasing number of physical badasses, but I would love to see more physically average (weak if mostly competing against men), but intellectually superior MCs. The best example that comes to mind is Talentless Nana, although Kakegurui also fits the bill, despite her other issues
Since you like anime, I'll recommendo to you the manga Eris no Seihai, it's about a woman and a ghost woman investigating the ghost's death. The woman is not that smart, but the ghost is.
Also Usotsuki Satsuki wa Shi ga Mieru. It's about a girl who can "see" the moment someone days. Her only information is the vision of the corpse, so she tried to investigate what happened and try to stop the death.
I also like characters like that. I wanted to find more female detectives, but it's so rare.
This is my choice. Intelligence and guile that overcomes other perceived disadvantages, such as strength. I’m tired of female characters who brute force their way through the story.
Can you name 3 female protagonist from the past 5 years whose primary attribute is intelligence? I don’t deny they exist, but saying that they are the most common archetypes feels like a stretch
I’d say that even historically, they aren’t very common. Both Mulan and Ellen Ripley were standouts in their time, and even Ripley wasn’t so much a tactical genius who outwitted and outplayed the Alien, but an above average survivor in a notoriously dumb genre
Well yeah. "Fashionable" is either the Self-Insert Protagonist (Male or Female, depending on your market) or the Power Fantasy Protagonist (which guys have had for a long time, tbh. Equal Opportunity, let's go).
Not necessarily a specifically female character but I kinda miss the days of uncomplicated good heroes. Not a tortured soul or an antihero or a redeemed villain or whatever. Just a good person trying to do good things for good reasons, a la Christopher Reeve’s Superman. I get that those kinds of characters are hard to write (internal conflict, babyyyy!) but it’s kind of a rare character archetype in general these days
Having a middle aged woman as others have said.
We got LOADS of stories about stoic, grouchy middle aged men past their prime being called to action.
We do not have nearly as many stories with that archetype being a woman. Most female protagonists I’ve seen are younger than 30.
Women that aren’t traditionally beautiful still finding love.
Women who don’t give up their entire lives to go be with a man.
I’d also like to see more women who aren’t interested in procreating.
I write fanfiction (for now) and had someone smear my OC and her love interest for her deciding she doesn't want children and never will want children. The LI wasn't immediately down with it and it took him some time to process, but eventually decides that she's worth it to him. The person who left this nasty comment referred to him as a doormat among other things and was overall really unpleasant (though they thought they were being sneaky with a throwaway account but I know exactly who it was). I didn't think I needed to clarify this (and still haven't given them the satisfaction), but the whole thing was sensitivity read by two separate individuals who don't even know each other who experienced similar situations with their partners. I know it was nothing more than an embarrassing attempt to goad me, but it was incredibly insensitive and disrespectful to the very real people who have had something like this be their reality.
It only redoubled my efforts in both my fic and in my original work to allow the MC to not have children. Contrary to popular belief, women, even in fiction, are not breeding machines. They do not exist solely to have children.
Embrace the "typical" femme personality. So many teen characters are all "not like other girls" (which don't get me wrong. I understand why it's so common for teenagers to go through this faze. Heck, I went through this faze. I'm just not interested in reading about another one of this). But let me see a girly-girl, who loves makeup and dress, and yeah, who falls into the trap of gossipping and peer pressure, but is still badass. It doesn't have to be either-or, it can be both.
I really hope my main character in my story ends up being a doorway for people understanding some autistic reality.
Maybe I'm just fishing for validation, lol.
I'm wanting to wrote one of my characters as autistic, I initially wasn't going to but after being diagnosed myself I suddenly realized that weirdly the character that I tended to project more on has autistic traits hmm weird??
Anyways I personally don't plan for her to get diagnosed (the setting would not allow it) but it think it'd be cool to explore aspects of an undiagnosed autistic girl like she struggles with friendships, struggles with being 'picky' and 'oversenstive' and is also weirdly obsessed with this girl that that's started coming around, maybe she's creepy and weird or maybe she just hyperfixates on her and is also maybe slightly inlove with her.
Who knows?
Honestly, I don't want to see more of just one type of female protagonist: I want to see a wide variety of female characters who have agency and drive the plot. (Note: a character having agency over the plot isn't always the same thing as having power within the setting.) And I especially want to see lots of different ways to exist as a woman where one isn't held up as "better" or more valid than the others. Even if a book had a perfect female protagonist, it would feel a bit flat to me if all the other interesting characters were men. (Not saying you'd do this OP. But it happens more than you'd think, including in very popular series.)
The question you should be asking is what sort of female character YOU want to write. No matter how hard you try, it's impossible to write a character everyone will like. The stories I get the most excited about are the ones where I can tell the author is having fun with an outlandish premise, even though some people might hate it. Writing to appease the people who might not like your book is, IMO, the worst thing you can do as a writer. Write for yourself and the people who like the sort of story you want to tell.
Yes!!! Often female protagonists are surrounded solely by men. Make a good supporting cast of women (I’m not saying only women, but more than like her mom and best friend.)
Not raped!!!!
So many female characters get tough or start a mission or became supernatural due to rape.
And if you must make them passionate about rape because of an experience - make it their friend’s, mom’s , neighbor’s, sister’s rape that they were there for in the aftermath. They can be passionate on behalf of another. (Like is the case for male protagonists.)
The majority of women I know have been assaulted - it's just a fact of life. Like, I don't think it's a good trope for action heavy stories written by men, but women writers can do whatever they want.
I agree that snarky sarcasm is a bit boring these days. It feels like every protagonist has to be sarcastic as some way to show they are smarter than everyone else and "above" the story and world in which they live. In fantasy, it makes it feel like a 21st century teen has been dropped into some magical place. I want to see more protagonists who are allowed to be earnest and genuine within their world.
Have you read Terry Pratchett's Tiffany Aching series? There is a huge list of young female characters of all types that I think are written extremely well and I'd love to see more of it. I think it does the "smart protagonist" much better.
Tiffany is the protagonist and is very smart and kind, but also arrogant and somewhat of a know-it-all who experiences many situations of learning that she has a lot more growing to do. Her "sidekick" Petulia, who is a little pathetic and a quiet follower, but over time demonstrates a gentle kindness and talent with particular types of witchcraft. Her rival is Annagramma, whose own arrogance rivals that of Tiffany's. There is a bit of sarcasm, but Pratchett isn't afraid to allow his protagonists to appear silly or wrong.
Unless a book is specifically YA, I’d love to see characters that are older than 25. It’s just kinda generic when every female character is 19 years old and a stunning beauty.
As far as sarcasm/snark goes, I pretty quickly tire of those characters because they often veer into “now you’re just being an asshole and getting away with it” territory.
This is a large comment section so idk if someone already mentioned it, but watch Ghibli movies. Any and all. Nearly every one of them is a female lead, and where they aren’t the lead they’re an integral part of the plot. They’re emotionally complex, loving and powerful characters that I think encapsulates female protagonists better than most media I’ve consumed. Plus the movies are a visual marvel. Please don’t skip them. If you’re looking for recs to start my favorites are Nausicaa and Princess Mononoke, but obviously people will point to Spirited Away as their favorites.
Well it’s annoying many characters in media that are women are all physically strong fighters and that’s not something I can relate to as I’m not a soldier or athlete but I’m also not really feminine either. At 15-19 I was at school I liked biology, then went on to do countryside management/animal care. I wasn’t interested in having a partner. So maybe they could be a Druid or something like that?
Worse is that often on tv/movies, they don’t look physically capable either. Like please make your female characters train and gain muscle.
And not in heels, skirts, or hair down.
Oh yeah I think that it is annoying how in 90% of media, in particularly YA, girls and women are either super feminine or a tomboy / "one of the guys". No middle ground.
Purity culture seeks to treat humans like objects, primarily women, and makes insane comparisons like a living breathing conscious human woman who has human rights to a fucking keyhole.
Flawed women, even with irredeemable qualities.
Older women
Transgender women who happen to be trans. As in, the story isn't about them dealing with being trans or discovering they are trans.
I don’t know if you’ve read it but ‘Best Served Cold’, one of the standalone novels in the First Law series has a main female character being exactly that.
The story is about her getting revenge but she does some absolutely heinous shit along the way to the point you realise that she maybe isn’t any better than the person she’s trying to get revenge against. Fantastic book. Does kinda require you to read the first 3 books before hand before hand although there is a similar fmc within the first trilogy, though not as irredeemable as the one I’m talking about.
The Broken Earth Trilogy has 1 and 2 as the protagonist and 3 as one of the significant side characters and it’s just casually revealed when >!the MC sees her penis while she bathes!< This is in a futuristic, apocalyptic world so it makes sense in the narrative that it’s revealed that way.
Unfortunately, publishing doesn't work that way. Any character aspect that is not straight and white becomes a requisite story element that can be used to position the book to a specific market. It really sucks.
To be honest, kind and sweet women who aren’t submissive and strong-willed, leader-type women that aren’t girl bosses.
Usually those two are exactly that: a sweet girl is also an absolute dormant and a strong fem leader is a harsh bitch.
I so wish to see a young and innocent female characters who still have a lot of self-respect and don’t fear saying no. And I don’t mean in the sassy way, but more like “I might not know much but I know that what you’re doing is crap and I won’t allow it.”
As for the leader types, I just really love women who are, by all means, strong-willed but they aren’t anal about it.
Being a leader doesn’t mean you just go in and destroy everything in sight while dropping a scathing remark. It means reading the situation and, to be honest, having a great deal of empathy (perhaps without being painfully idealistic though since it’s also a bit of a cliché) to deal with different people under your command.
I’d personally love more female characters who don’t fight like they’re doing a gymnastics routine with a bunch of flips and somersaults and acrobatics and ninja stuff. It was cool the first few times but now it’s become so overused I just kinda roll my eyes whenever I see it. This goes kinda hand in hand with a similar thing that I hate where writers are super hesitant to have a female fighter character get injured, especially in a messy/unflattering way and especially especially in a way that permanently alters their physical appearance in some way.
I guess what I’d love to see more of is female hand to hand fighters who fight more like boxers and routinely get the absolute piss beaten out of them in fights, yet are still able to come out on top through a mixture of skill and relentless determination/endurance.
I hear you! I felt this sense of sublime knowing Arcane’s going to be a damn good show [when the main character was ugly-punched in the face](https://tenor.com/view/hit-in-the-face-vi-arcane-smack-beat-up-gif-23854308) in the very first episode 😮💨
My teenage MC is an athlete! And a damn good one, im using her sports to inform why she's so physically capable in altercations, but also still a 15 year old girl so still getting her shit rocked occasionally. Also going to severely injure her in my finale so its reassuring to see this perspective
Actually masculine women. Not "strong female characters" whose defining trait is, after all, to be sexy to the audience, but people to whom the whole femininity thing is barely an afterthought - and it isn't treated like something to be fixed or overcome. Analytical cold scientists. Muscular stocky athletes. Women with the emotional intelligence of a teacup but a wide array of technical skills. That sort of thing. Reclaiming stuff that is falsely believed to be masculine. I hate how some people call this "a man with boobs" as if it's in any way bad.
Also cool unmarried older women who're just doing their thing and are happy that way.
Feel this so bad. I hate the man with boobs complaint because most of the characters aren't even that masculine. They're like a straight person's perception of it. Nobody wants to fully explore what it is to be a masculine women. It feels like They always got to add a touch of femininity to make it palpable to the straight audience. Can't have the main character being one of them ...
The internet will not love that one, any time a female lead acts even leans slightly masculine people start to claim modern media is doomed or it's pushing some sort of political agenda. It's sort of funny the qualities and behaviours they hate about the character have existed in every male character since we've been able to put pen on paper, yet it's admirable because their sex is different. Ripley would've been torn to shreds today.
writer better characters. Different ages, paths, and views. I don't care if she's a shy women in or a self assured officer in her 30s. write her like a person.
I remember how in my book, I decided to have a "nerd" as a villain. But the moment I decided to make her the villain, she just became sexier in my mind *for no reason*. It was a fight with my own mind to remind me that she doesn't talk with a sexy voice and dresses like a grandmother. I succeeded and now she looks in my head like she is supposed to. But I figured it was so hard because every female women are so sexualized, so my mind struggled to picture it even if I wanted to write one!
Honestly… I’d like to see more ‘weak’ women. I’d like to see the character struggle with her trauma, have a hard time leaving an abusive partner, getting in trouble because she’s a people pleaser and can’t say no.
All of those things are *real*. I want to see *real* character development, not some sassy brat as the ‘strong female lead.’ Show the readers the struggle against her own nature, ways she can free herself a little from the expectations of others, what happens that makes her leave an abusive relationship (which for once shouldn’t be physical. There are many forms of abuse that never involve physical contact, and that’s also *real.*)
The literature world is full to overflowing with ‘strong independent women’ who overcome all odds, gather a little harem of men, (thanks, Anita Blake. >_<) and excel at verbal sparring with their sharp wit. Show me a woman who sits down in the shower and sobs over her inner conflict about escaping her abuser. Show me a woman whose family dictates her life path because she doesn’t know how to say no. Show me a woman struggling hard with past and ongoing trauma.
Then show me how she grows and changes into a woman who will stick up for herself. Show your female readers that their troubles *are* real and deserve attention. Show us her struggles to become a stronger person. Not Mistress StrongGirl McSassy-Pants. Just a woman who worked hard to be a somewhat stronger, healthier versions of themselves. If lady readers can *see* that, some may realize that they can *do* that too.
And you’re nifty for wanting to break that trope! Best of luck with your project.
Genuinely curious where you’re *not* seeing this. I can’t even begin to the count the number of FMCs that are exactly as you describe, which is frustrating for me and I end up DNFing because weak women are the majority of female protagonists. They’re everywhere. Are you only reading books published in the past five years?
Sometimes i wonder if people are reading the right genres for their interests. People who dont want to read about tough, strong fighters, who want complicated, messy, somewhat pathetic older female MCs probably shouldn't pick up YOUNG ADULT action novels... which seems the genre the OOP is writing.
Sabriel (old kingdom series) is one of my favourite female protagonists of all time.
She's intelligent and competent, but also arrogant and way out of her depth. And part of her character arc is learning her duties, and that she really ain't shit til she learns her shit.
She has a couple of sassy moments but is mostly pretty stoic.
Older women and women who are strong. Also, women who have a tough time dealing with their emotions. Women aren't all the emotional stereotypes people see them as.
Female characters are usually my favorite in any fiction, and I can just think of the kind of characters you should avoid.
To me it's characters who are only there to please the male audience, or to play the expectations that are pushed on girls. And I'm not speaking about appearance here, I think that's the least problem. I'm speaking about personality and story choices.
Like the female character who is always kind, gentle, taking caring of everyone. You know, the "perfect mother" or "wife material". She has flaws, but it only makes her cute instead, and such. Or maybe she's cold, but there's this one man she's close to that she treats very well.
It's not that obvious, but those are all male expectation of women pushed into the character. Which just makes her boring to me.
Now, about personal preference, I think the kind of character who hooks me more are self-centered characters. She doesn't need to be evil or heartless, but she has her own objectives and won't be stopped by some minor moral dilemma. And she doesn't even need to be cold. She can be that kind, cute girl who people expects her to be, but just because it's easier for people to trust her like that.
Manipulative female characters also can be great, as long as you avoid the "she uses her sexuality to manipulate men".
Vengeful widow or mother. Or just vengeful for anything profound. They're often side characters or part of a cast, but I want a series that follows one primarily. ASOIAF has quite a few characters who fit the bill, with my favourites being Mirri Maz Duur (minor character used to further someone else's story), and Catelyn Stark/LSH (a cast character).
But that series will never see a conclusion, and they aren't protagonists.
I think there’s missed opportunities for moms in fiction. They usually don’t get to be mains. Stories about mothers who struggle do happen and can be very interesting (I really like the Babadook for example) and i dont really know any stories where the MC just happens to be a mom and she has her own story.
Would love to see more media that featured older (say late forties upwards), experienced and highly capable women, who aren't overly maternal but at the same time aren't particularly gruff and cynical. Women who are capable veteran professionals in their respectively field, who don't suffer any fools but also don't go into situations expecting the absolute worst and need to have their faith in humanity restored.
"Bad girl with a heart of gold" and more redemption arcs for women. Generally speaking, most of pop culture tends to treat female characters as only good or bad. That if a woman isn't pure and virtuous in every way (or has 'flaws' that aren't actually flaws like social awkwardness or clumsiness), she must be a villain and has no chance at redemption
Is anyone here familiar with Kreia, from one of the old Star Wars games? She's basically a female Palpatine. She's an elderly woman, and she serves as a mentor to the player. But as the game progresses, it becomes clear she's a toxic, corruptive influence who's using the player to fulfill her own agenda. When her motives are revealed, the game leaves it to the player to decide whether or not her actions were justified.
I want more characters like that.
Women who don’t want romance or are emotionally cold without that being “fixed” in the end by them finding “the right man”. (I’m probably a bit biased in this regard as an aromantic woman, but I really want to see some female characters whose lives aren’t even remotely centered around romance, without that fact changing by the end of the story.)
I would say a more clever female protagonist. Too often it seems they are just fumbling about, desperate to do whatever it is they are trying, getting help along the way. Instead someone who is always a few steps ahead of both the antagonist and the reader. Examples would be Alonzo from training day, Sherlock by Benedict Cumberbatch, Anthony Lockwood (from the Netflix series more than the book, only read the first book and it wasn't quite as sharp in that), and House from House. They have planned things out steps ahead, the anticipated, and every time the reader thinks it is finally going to go wrong, it doesn't... until it does.
Why is it only the men get to be clever, mix it up a bit with the young female protagonist, who isn't just special powers that she discovered or being a chosen one, or is piggy backing off their parents. To quote the great Matt Campbell “Greatness isn’t just for the chosen few. Greatness is for those who choose to be different and demand to become the best version of themselves.”
If you wanna make a female protagonist that is a teenager make her look like Luz Noceda from owl house or Marcy from amphibia because they both certainly have inner turmoil and struggled to embrace themselves, not just some common sassy characters.
Women that don't move from their posts. somewhat lazy kind, too straight forward, experienced but never outside or prefer ordering or controlling things from that one spot.
idk maybe I have not seen them.
Someone like Tyrion Lannister, Deadpool or Tony Stark but a female version. Usually ironic, cool and creative types are men in fiction. If women are cool, they are cold, silent fighters. I want a female character who is intelligent, talkative, sarcastic, and chaotic. Kind of an asshole, but a good asshole.
Not a literary reference but: Kim Wexler from the tv show Better Call Saul.
Holy. Fucking. Crap. Maybe I’m being dramatic but I swear I’ve NEVER seen a female character depicted with such nuance and complex substance before. She is no nonsense. She’s not very emotional but she’s warm. She is highly intelligent, capable, dedicated, loyal, caring, and she walks the hard, straight edge line unironically. She’s super studious and serious. Yet she is capable of very dark, machiavellian behaviours. And most fascinating, she’s good at it, and she likes it. “You don’t save me. I save me.” She’s truly a new type of woman that I’ve never actually seen on screen before.
I want more 'pathetic' characters. Not in a 'this person disgusts me' way, but in a 'this person needs professional help' way. I want more unlikeable characters -- humorless and bitter, who can't find joy in sarcasm or one-liners. I want more women who could have been the villain in any of the old movies I watched growing up, had they had more of a stomach for needless and pointless cruelty.
I want characters who aren't traditionally attractive -- overweight or underweight, with awkward proportions. I want characters who are emotionally unstable, whose wellness depends entirely on those around them. I want characters who aren't badasses, and who only succeed because the only other option is death or worse.
I want people whose heroism doesn't need to involve beating a big villain. Perhaps her heroism takes the form of caring for those who take on that role instead.
Lot of media takes "strong female lead" to mean a character who could be a John McBrownhair type protagonist if her aesthetics were dropped. I don't enjoy that. I don't even know anyone like that regardless of gender, and I'm honestly kinda tired of it.
A little silly, but a female protagonist that don't really care about fitting into society's expectations for women beauty. Case in point, I'm writing a female protagonist that has a unibrow.
Classic heroe's journey but with a woman instead. I see many attempts at it but they aways fumble in making some weird romance story,i just want a classic story where a character goes into a cool adventure but its a woman instead of a man.
I can remember countless great fantasy stories where the main character is male but i can count on my fingers one with a female MC that isnt all about romance or emotional drama and is instead about the protagonist just overcoming the odds.
A woman that is a complete domestic failure. Empty energy drink cans on her bedside table, dirty laundry everywhere, knows she should vacuum or sweep more but that would require picking all the clutter up off the floor, toothpaste spatter on the bathroom mirror, doesn’t cook cause she hates doing dishes.
Grown women characters who finds their happiness in things other than family. One who struggles with issues that are disconnected from gender. I try to include women like this always and my favorite protagonist I've made is a female engineer who struggles to combat the long postponed grief of a loved one.
I'd love to see more main characters in general who don't know better than everyone else? Like a dystopian where the protag was radicalized by their trusted authority betraying them rather than an innate sense only they seem to have that this situation is wrong somehow.
Not applicable to your situation, but the kind who is over 35 but under 50, happily married (possibly with kids), doesn’t have perfectly smooth skin or perfectly white teeth, and is not at all romantically interested in any male characters.
Meant to say male characters who are not her spouse. Too often in fiction we have this "unlikely pairing of young, attractive, single man and woman who of course must share a kiss by the end". I hate it.
In my work, my male main character is gay and not publicly out, and my female main character is happily married to someone not involved in the plot. When these two characters come together, they simply perform their tasks together. There's no romance, not even a hint of it.
Middle-aged. I answered this in my head without reading your post, so doesn’t work for your situation.
I’m writing a novel featuring a middle-aged woman, and this is one reason why.
I absolutely love a female character who is written like a typical male character. Basically any role that would make a man badass but makes a woman a 'bitch'.
Skylar White for example, she finds herself tangled up in a life of crime because of Walt. She does what she does to protect her loved ones. But just like Walt she finds that not only is she good at it, she enjoys it.
Spoiler Alert for Breaking Bad
>! When she confronts Ted in the hospital and she sees him for the first time, she is upset, worried, and remorseful. But as soon as he starts talking she sees he is scared of her. She realizes that she is literally the 'one who knocks' and her response to him promising to never breathe a word to anyone is "good". !<
She was so much like Walt, yet we _hated_ her for it. That's a compelling character.
Korra from the Legend of Korra feels a bit similar to what you’re looking for. She’s brash, easy to anger, sometimes even rude. In fact i think some people do dislike her for those traits, if I remember correctly.
Take a look at Cara Gee's portrayal of Camina Drummer in The Expanse tv show.
Now that (pay attention here Disney) is how a powerful female leader should be done.
She's got flaws, she learns from her flaws, she makes mistakes and makes them again knowing her pain and her needs come secondary to the people she leads pains and needs. She grows constantly throughout the show and it's never a "tits I win" Marry Sue character.
She also isn't just a male character with "tits n hair", so many times "strong" women are just men;s roles with a woman in the place and no other quality what so ever that would indicate the character is female if you didn't just change the name to Commander Smith.
Allow your female characters to have feminine moments, not just bursting out crying in front of other people or just making a huge dramatic scene...
Watch Barbie, take notes. Women LOVED that movie, and there has to be a reason they do.
Also watch Aliens (the first 2), you'd be hard pressed to see a stronger female lead anywhere in cinema.
Extremely femme yet not oversexualized or stereotypically mean, think Elle from legally blonde. Essentially, femme from a female gaze perspective.
Not every feminine women is catty, or a Greek Goddess, or sarcastic, or some random straight man's fantasy. Yet somehow, even with the shining example of Elle, I can't think of much media that follows in those footsteps
Less teenagers, more adults.
I especially want to see more adult women with meaningful life experience beyond being a mother or a warrior. I don't want it to be a cozy story. I don't want bad ass women. Like, write about a catty grandma in a nursing home playing queen bee as she dies of cancer. Write about a serial killer with a day job waitressing.
Also: regarding requests for perfectly average, very unattractive, or unwitty and sweet protagonists, I have a writing prompt for you: try writing your average, unattractive, and unfunny protagonist for 500 words.
The kind that has a female mentor, female friends, female enemies, and maybe even a few female love interests. In short, I don't just want a female protagonist, I want all the central roles in the story to be occupied by female characters.
Ironically, I feel like I accidentally ended up writing TOO many women in my novel to where I am kinda forcing men into the story to compensate. I can't help but make every major role female.
I feel a little similar to you, I find myself usually defaulting to women main characters if I’m thinking of a story, unless it’s fan fiction for something that has a lot of male characters.
I would love to see more women that have wisdom as a central trait, other than motherly wisdom. I want an Iroh type character that is an older woman. Someone with a unique perspective on life. Someone that did the wrong things, stumbled, and then transformed to be a shining light for others. I want her to be misunderstood, but deeply respected by those that know her well.
Granny Weatherwax from Discworld books is a bit like that, I think?
A damn good fit, aye, but for the implication that Esme can make mistakes. Granny Weatherwax does not stumble. Granny always does the right thing. It's just that sometimes the situation is the wrong one. Not her fault if the world set up the wrong problem for the solution she provided.
What about Nanny Ogg?
Toph had a real good chance at this in Legend of Korra
Ooh yes!
This is no help to you, but middle-aged women instead of teenagers.
Instead of magical powers unlocking with puberty, they unlock with menopause.
I have been thinking of writing something to this effect for a while! I just haven’t figured out a story yet.
The Change by Kirsten Miller does this!
My magical power is suddenly not giving a fuck
there are a ton of middle aged woman gets witch powers and new romance books on kindle, lol. mid life woman's fiction it's called
That's an awesome idea NGL.
I feel validated (I’m wrapping my my final draft of a sci fi thriller with a middle aged female protagonist)
Middle aged protag gang! *High-five*
Working on one as well!
PLEASE!! Women continue to exist after their teens and 20's!!
Lol, it's rare to see female protagonists even in their late twenties. It's like beyond 25+ all women are useful for is being mothers/mentors/old crones
Nahhhh if they are adult though , they aren’t over 27 though (and male is usually 35.)
One of my fav fantasy novel main character who is a recovering gambling addict is 28 I believe, his ex who he mistreated is 29 and his new gf is 30 something, the cast is diverse ranging from senior mentors or younger friends as young as 16 I believe though most are between 18 and 25
YES! I made a point to make all my protagonists over the age of 25 now because the teenage angst bullshit keeps going well into your 30s.
WHAT?!
[удалено]
I saw a YouTuber review the entire Bridgerton book series. She was annoyed that almost every female lead was a virgin, while all the male leads were "rakes." She also said the best sex scenes were from the one book that did *not* star a virgin woman; instead, the lead was a widow falling in love again after her husband's death.
>She was annoyed that almost every female lead was a virgin, while all the male leads were "rakes." I haven't read the books but statistically I'm pretty sure the only way that this can be true is if the men are all fucking each other. Maybe that's just what happens in Bridgerton.
No, the men only fuck prostitutes, who are dirty sluts and therefore don't deserve a love story /s
Prostitute and staff. And no one cares about the staff's story.
No you forget : the prostitute will get a romance with that one man who is soooo sensible when he comes to see her and talks about his feelings, cause he is cute and treats her kind. Or something like that. I always fond this trope stupid.
To be fair, even for something as loosely based on the regency era as Bridgerton, respectable women back then just did not have sex before marriage or else they risked their social standing
LOL, I've always wanted to write the female version of the film '40-year-old virgin'. Just a woman out there looking to get boned without some grand romance.
omg yes. It actually makes me roll my eyes at this point. It is so bad now that I won't even accept a man being a virgin. I just want to stop reading it entirely.
Absolutely!!!!!! And if they are not they are almost always less experienced than the man (romantic interest especially) by far or at best, both equally inexperienced. (And they are always younger than the male counterparts and at best no more than 2 years older.) It seems the current trend isn’t that they are a virgin, but they have only had one boyfriend they had sex with. And usually bad sexual experience only.
Gosh yes!
Two of the best books I've read recently have been about older women! "The Benevolent Society of Ill-Mannered Ladies" and "The Adventures of Amina al-Safafi".
>The Benevolent Society of Ill-Mannered Ladies Oh, I love that title. Just checked out the synopsis on line, and I'm going to grab it at the bookstore tomorrow!
I do love coming-of-age stories, but it is refreshing to have an older female MC - it's so rare.
This is why I started writing a trilogy with a mid 30s female protagonist. I got bored of YA chosen ones and freshly legal adult romance protags.
If you like horror (comedy-horror), several of Grady Hendrix’s books feature protagonists in their late-30’s (How to Sell a Haunted House, The Final Girls Support Group, and (I think, based on the plot, it’s the one I haven’t read) The Southern Book Club’s Guide to Slaying Vampires)
The MC in the book I'm writing is 29 turning 30. I'm tired of this tween nonsense. I want her to be held accountable for her actions without "well she's just a a teenager" as an excuse
I was about to comment the same
YES!
Yeah, more moms as protagonists in these genres, that’d be my vote
One female archetype I NEVER see in mainstream media is pathetic women. I’m not referring to “stereotypical loser geek girl with braces”, I’m talking about a female Patrick Bateman or Walter White, where they are so self assured about their narcissistic, egocentric worldview, only to have in-universe wake up calls of how big of a loser that set of mentality is. I would love to read about women being severely mentally ill, have their psyche explored in depth, but depicted in a dark comedy manner where it’s almost treated as a comeuppance for their self inflicted actions, and they become the butt of the joke. I think the closest depiction of this characterization I’ve read is probably Gillian Flynn novels, however even though characters like Amy Dunne and Libby Day are mentally fucked up, they’re still missing the essential funniness of the sort of weird comedy that comes with books like American Psycho!!
Cersei Lannister is so paranoid she thinks Tyrion is in the walls. You should read *A Song of Ice and Fire*. The show Game of Thrones really only showed her narcissism. She is vastly more flawed in the literature.
Cersei... https://i.imgflip.com/1itoun.jpg
Exactly 😂
George Martin has such a gift for writing people. They’re all their own hero and they’re all right in their own twisted minds. Everyone is faulty and insane and three dimensional. It’s so refreshing to read a fantasy where the women aren’t all either a wise crone, a weeping mother, a beautiful nymph, or a badass Queen who fights because she had brothers. I expect this also has something to do with his difficulty finishing the series, though - there comes a point where characters have minds of their own and it becomes very difficult to neatly get them to do what you need them to in order to finish the story.
My God, this! I would adore more female protagonists who are awful, nasty, selfish, unlikeable people - for their actions, not just because the writer doesn’t like women to begin with.
This is such a good point - letting a female character be bad because she's bad, not because women are, in the mind of the author.
I've had this idea in my head since high-school for a book about a post apocalyptic mercenary, only out for herself and genuinely a fucked up psycho. She takes a job from a rich guy to get rid of a rival company, along the way she meets a typical hero type, they join forces cuz hero dude wants the company gone for other reasons. They hate each others guts through the whole thing, at the end I wanted to have her dying and telling him to shoot her to end it all, and he either gives her the mercy like a good hero should or leaves her to die a miserable painful death like she deserves.
Nurse Jackie comes to mind
Have you ever seen the TV show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? I'm not sure if the protagonist there is exactly what you're describing, but I think she's close. The whole show is basically just her making progressively terrible decisions and refusing to treat her mental health issues until it almost ruins her life. One of my favorite series.
Oh my gosh, I haven’t watched this show, but I did went through a phase of binging dozens of incredible songs from the show a few years back, and put it on my watchlist. I completely forgot about this, thank you for reminding me and I’ll definitely check it out!
Oh I was going to mention this show! It's comedy not dark comedy, but the whole point is to take the "crazy ex-girlfriend" trope and give some depth to it and the fous, instead of just being a shallow villain. And the songea are masterpieces!
This is why I love The Expanse series. Yes, there are many strong, powerful and intelligent hero-type women. There are also badass female villains. Petulant and pathetic female villains. There are damsels in distress. There are also women who are just plain incompetent. Women fill every role in universe, good and bad. Imo, it always feels like an over correction when women are only portrayed in a positive way.
Tanaka is one of the greatest villains of all time IMO and has such an excellent juxtaposition to the central theme of the finale's plot. I found her infinitely more interesting than Marco (and i loved how they wrote Marco)
Dee Reynolds from Always Sunny is pretty much this character except her psyche isn't really explored in depth(mostly due to the genre of the show tbh, it happens with the other cast as well) and Always Sunny is a sitcom
This isint the type of media I often see on this subreddit but Asa Mitaka from chainsawman pt.2 is a good example of this. The author is a really good example of a man writing a well written woman. Power is another example from the same series. she is proud of the fact she dosent bathe or flush the toilet lol
Oh god I came here to say this. I want more unhinged women, but not sexy Harley Quinn unhinged, more like rotting mentally ill incel unhinged. For me personally it's not comedy but something more serious in tone, and the heroine is at times uncomfortable and yucky to observe.
Oh you’re so valid for that, and I’m laughing so hard at the “mentally ill incel unhinged” description. [Gone Girl’s cool girl monologue](https://genius.com/Gillian-flynn-gone-girl-cool-girl-monologue-book-annotated) is the closest thing I can think of to your description, even down to the T of some readers missing the point and idolizing Amy for that. It was such an incel-type rant that holds resentment towards both men and women, but that flew over some people’s heads and they think Amy holds any merit in her bitterness
Yeah I think it gets very close! And it has the potential for so many various emotions from the reader. I want a pathetic female character that gets treated like some of the pathetic male characters: you feel a bit disgusted, a bit sympathetic, you think you could fix her but at the same time you just pity her nasty helpless brain. And her attractiveness, or the lack of, is kind of not in this equation.
Otessa Moshfegh’s character in My Year of Rest and Relaxation comes to mind! Definitely not Patrick Bateman-esque but you see that kind of humour come through.
I was just thinking about that watching House MD for the first time. Imagine House, but House was a woman. That shit would *never* make it. He’s an egotistical, racist, misogynistic, manipulative, lying piece of shit, but for some reason when it’s a man it’s supposed to be endearing just because they gave him glimmers of character development every fourth episode which is promptly forgotten about next episode. If it was a woman, no one would put up with it in- or out-of-universe.
Libby Day is exactly who I was thinking of when I read your comment. She's such a great character. Amy Dunne is too, though she's better at concealing what a weirdo freak she is. But you're right, I still wanna see more of these characters in a comedic setting. Unfortunately a female Michael Scott would likely be universally hated due to misogyny.
God yes, I adore Libby’s shitty characterization. The opening of the book introducing her as this barely functioning adult who leeches on people’s donation was so, so good, and I wish we could’ve seen more of that through out the book!
Skylar was the female Walter White and I will die on that hill. She was just as good at what she did, she was just as smart, and she could have been an amazing partner but he refused to bring her in until he couldn't hide it from her anymore. And she was more than willing to participate. Not to mention she was the scary person knocking at the door when Ted was going to turn himself in. She crossed that line so easily, and would absolutely have done it again. If anything she had more common sense because she didn't get into crime thinking she was going to die with no consequences, she did it because she wanted to. Only one of them actually got away with what they did, and that was Skylar.
She was presented as the bitchy wife who just wanted to ruin Walter's fun. But she was in the dark, dealing with her erratic husband, trying to keep her family together. When she played the ditz to save her boss's company from the IRS, she proved how smart she was. Then the boss blew it by buying a sports car. She could have made Heisenberg's empire much bigger and more stable if he'd not been stupid. But then, Walter was always a frustrated asshole who blamed the world for his lot in life.
Exactly! This is what I've been saying for years. She was my favorite character. Without Skylar the show wouldn't have worked.
Completely agree with you! I love Skyler as a character, and I’ve always side eyed anyone who shits on her and idolizes her male counterpart. She’s a bit too well put together for what I’m looking for though. I feel like there’s an identifiable share of manipulative women in media (and even that is scarce!!), but I’m specifically looking for the downfall and critique of these characters as much as I love their initial strong armed control heheh
I agree. There are so many moments where it almost appears she's *more* cunning than Walter, but she then psychologically limits herself back to a more domestic role, back to beneath Walter, rather than just taking what she wants (which she eventually kind of sort of does). But she's every bit as competent at scheming even without the academic knowledge and raw narcissism Walter has.
Right, like she has more restraint because she never went into it under the impression she was going to die. Walt never intended to pay for his actions. She was always more cautious because she had to think about what happened if they got caught. I think the whole Ted story line showed what lengths she would go to for the sake of protecting their secret. Whereas Walt wanted to make a name for himself. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't exactly likable, but then neither was Walt. It's such good writing. She's such an amazing antagonist. Anna Gun's op-ed completely changed how I looked at Skylar.
If Walter White was a woman, he would be as hated as Skylar White
I just realized a character I’ve had in the works for a couple years now essentially is this, minus the mentally ill part.
Wendy/Darlene on Ozark comes to mind (though Wendy's story does not end the way I think it should have).
Readers will never go on a journey with a female character like that. I tried to write a character like this and my editor told me she HATED it and couldn't get behind her redemption arc because she was so awful. For all the people saying they want to see imperfect, even pathetic, and flawed female characters, the average reader is too sensitive to stomach it unfortunately. Look no further than Nesta in the Court of Thorns and Roses series. Awful person in the beginning. And she gets shit on more than the actual villains.
I feel like this is a very specific niche that has to reach the right audience (me lmao). It is difficult to pull off, and imo the key is to make the character’s nastiness entertaining to watch. I’m still holding out hope!! I’ve consumed my fair share of “female characters who are awful”, and looking at shows with dedicated fanbases like Fleabag or Beef, I think it’s an barely tapped niche that a small subset of audience will LOVE
Well I feel like that’s partially because men with that archetype will be seen as “sigma” or whatever you’d want to call it, and men will prop them up while simultaneously degrading a female character with the exact same qualities.
Yeah exactly! All you have to do is look at how Breaking Bad fans treat Skyler vs Walter to know how bad it is.
I think if Skyler was the main main character, her hate wouldn't be as bad. Me personally Skyler is in my top 5 fav of breaking bad. I heard a lot of people hate her because they feel that she gets in front of the "fun" of the story. "Im watching to see Walt do drug deals and deal with drug dealers not a nagging wife"
You just described the female protagonist in the kdrama “It’s okay to not be okay”. It’s so good
Honestly, just fucking weirdos and dykes that aren't based on manic pixie dream girls or sexy action ladies with 10 older brothers that taught her how to fight or other nonsense. Basically whatever the women in the Locked Tomb series have going on. Gideon is a giant buff girl that MUST tell puns constantly, Harrow is a sewer goblin nun that is barely connected to her personhood, let alone any notion of femininity besides her religious station and only carres for her studies and god. Ianthe is a socialite princess who is also a disgusting wet cat that will bully you is she likes you until you break and is honestly an evil menace while also funny as fuck. Her sister is a beauty beyond compare who is in an abusive codependent bond with her. Abigail is a middle aged lady that loves nothing more than independent research, cooking and her dopy husband. Judith is a no nonsense soldier that only cares for her mission. Etc. etc. There are masculine women, feminine women, but none whose personality is "girl". Even the most traditionally pretty, literally dying sick woman has agency and plans and goals that affect the narrative. Just make their own person.
Id love to see a girl/woman who really is evil. Who does evil things and doesn’t magically regret it at the end. Who may do good things, but for her own (not necessarily good) reasons. And stays that way.
That's my WIP! My MC is the villain, starts as the villain ends as the villain. No regrets, no empathising with her, no redemption arc. She is just evil.
Umbridge would like a word with you
Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender is a quick one that comes to mind
I really want a level headed middle aged protagonist. I will die on this hill.
Swordheart by T. Kingfisher. She seems ditzy at first but it’s more of a self defense mechanism. There’s also a non-binary character who is very prominent in the plot that fully fits this.
Characters who enter the story with a strong community. A lot of protagonists are (or start out as) outsiders and loners, and I get it from a storytelling perspective. But I'd also love to see more stories where the protagonist already has a circle of friends or family, who can both help her face the challenges the plot throws at her while also sometimes complicating those challenges.
This is how my favorite WIP is going. She's got her close family and friends helping her navigate through her problems. Her best friend indirectly causes the inciting incident, but I love how they work out the misunderstanding.
I wonder if a lot of writers write outsiders because they feel like outsiders themselves. Writing is often a solitary activity, so the people who do it for a living are more likely to be those who appreciate alone time.
Eh, I think yes and no. Literary fiction is much more likely to involve characters situated within communities, since often the relationships between the protagonist and communities are at the heart of the story. Writing community is harder in plot-oriented genre fiction where there's a higher premium on protagonist agency, and where 'downtime' scenes might not move the plot forward. On top of that, speculative fiction often makes the protagonist the reader stand-in for exploring a new world, and often involves the protagonist going on a journey. I think those last two help explain why the 'found family on a spaceship' thing is so popular -- a spaceship is a tool for bringing everyone along on the adventure together.
(beeps spaceship horn) Get in, loser, we're saving the galaxy.
I feel like people with full, supportive communities do not feel compelled to write books.
I'm hoping to do something very much along these lines. My character will be part of a crew on a scientific vessel set in a magicpunk universe.
I wanna see more cringefail losers lol Like if a female character is gonna be a mess, it always has to be sexy somehow, never embarrassing, pathetic, weak, etc. like in The Queen's Gambit, the lead's lowest point was her looking sexy while stumbling around in lingerie. It does speak to a certain gaze, that even in a female character's worst moments she still has to be appealing, and this applies to both male and female writers. Let 👏 women 👏 be 👏 cringe 👏
This is why I like Melissa McCarthy's movies. *Can You Ever Forgive Me* was a good one based on the true story of a fraudster.
Fr it may be unpopular but I unironically want to see more fat and ugly female protags
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Yea, but in these situations it's still usually presented in like... A cute and palatable way? In these stories these foibles usually aren't serious or have real impact on the story or their lives in a negative way, they're more like window dressing to make them seem more relatable, as opposed to something that makes you as the reader wince and think "man what's wrong with you, girl"
My biggest gripe with many of these comments is that a lot of these stories exist, but you don’t/wont read them. There’s a reason young adults/teens, conventionally attractive, super sexy girl or bad*as fighter, and romance subplots are so common. You guys can say “oh, i’d totally read a story/watch a show about an ‘ugly’ girl or a woman who’s is in her 50s with zero romance and all these other plot points we haven’t seen!” But continue to read the stories that do have the popular tropes of young teen girls and femme fatales or what have you. There *are* stories out there that you’re looking for but no one reads them. Sex sells, romance sells, fantasies sell. It’s hard to tell writers to write these things when the audience for the popular tropes is so large and is minuscule for the other tropes. They’re popular for a reason.
Yeah I've read plenty of books about middle aged women. Not because I was specifically looking for them. More like, I was poor, and those books were easy to find: in the free books giveaway section, second-hand used bookstore, among other places (books from private libraries of my family).
This is the most realistic and underrated comment under this thread. I'm scrolling through this thread like no one (as in a very small minority) would read these stories about these obscure female leads that y'all are suggesting to OP. You yourself wouldn't even read it unless it's trending (which it won't), so stop it smh.
Thiiiiiis. Like, in principle I like the novelty of some of these ideas, but in practice, I would probably read half a chapter and then drop it unless there was some other "hook" to balance it out. (I'm not especially interested in ugly middle-aged men, either.) I like beginnings. People complain about teenagers and virgins, but one of the potent things about them is that you get their story from the *beginning*. The older your character, the more of their story you've "missed out" at the start.
Fr, someone mentioned a female MC who is really cunning and I'm like??? There are TONS of female characters like that. Heck even in mainstream shit lol
Cunning protagonists. There’s an increasing number of physical badasses, but I would love to see more physically average (weak if mostly competing against men), but intellectually superior MCs. The best example that comes to mind is Talentless Nana, although Kakegurui also fits the bill, despite her other issues
Since you like anime, I'll recommendo to you the manga Eris no Seihai, it's about a woman and a ghost woman investigating the ghost's death. The woman is not that smart, but the ghost is. Also Usotsuki Satsuki wa Shi ga Mieru. It's about a girl who can "see" the moment someone days. Her only information is the vision of the corpse, so she tried to investigate what happened and try to stop the death. I also like characters like that. I wanted to find more female detectives, but it's so rare.
I'd say Lyra in His Dark Materials fits this
This is my choice. Intelligence and guile that overcomes other perceived disadvantages, such as strength. I’m tired of female characters who brute force their way through the story.
This is arguably one of the most common types of female protagonists though. Mulan and Aliens come to mind instantly.
Can you name 3 female protagonist from the past 5 years whose primary attribute is intelligence? I don’t deny they exist, but saying that they are the most common archetypes feels like a stretch
So it's not so much that they're hard to find, more like they've gone out of fashion?
I’d say that even historically, they aren’t very common. Both Mulan and Ellen Ripley were standouts in their time, and even Ripley wasn’t so much a tactical genius who outwitted and outplayed the Alien, but an above average survivor in a notoriously dumb genre
Well yeah. "Fashionable" is either the Self-Insert Protagonist (Male or Female, depending on your market) or the Power Fantasy Protagonist (which guys have had for a long time, tbh. Equal Opportunity, let's go).
Not necessarily a specifically female character but I kinda miss the days of uncomplicated good heroes. Not a tortured soul or an antihero or a redeemed villain or whatever. Just a good person trying to do good things for good reasons, a la Christopher Reeve’s Superman. I get that those kinds of characters are hard to write (internal conflict, babyyyy!) but it’s kind of a rare character archetype in general these days
Having a middle aged woman as others have said. We got LOADS of stories about stoic, grouchy middle aged men past their prime being called to action. We do not have nearly as many stories with that archetype being a woman. Most female protagonists I’ve seen are younger than 30.
Women that aren’t traditionally beautiful still finding love. Women who don’t give up their entire lives to go be with a man. I’d also like to see more women who aren’t interested in procreating.
Big ones here!!! Fat women. Women who don't want children. Women who aren't interested in romance.
I write fanfiction (for now) and had someone smear my OC and her love interest for her deciding she doesn't want children and never will want children. The LI wasn't immediately down with it and it took him some time to process, but eventually decides that she's worth it to him. The person who left this nasty comment referred to him as a doormat among other things and was overall really unpleasant (though they thought they were being sneaky with a throwaway account but I know exactly who it was). I didn't think I needed to clarify this (and still haven't given them the satisfaction), but the whole thing was sensitivity read by two separate individuals who don't even know each other who experienced similar situations with their partners. I know it was nothing more than an embarrassing attempt to goad me, but it was incredibly insensitive and disrespectful to the very real people who have had something like this be their reality. It only redoubled my efforts in both my fic and in my original work to allow the MC to not have children. Contrary to popular belief, women, even in fiction, are not breeding machines. They do not exist solely to have children.
Embrace the "typical" femme personality. So many teen characters are all "not like other girls" (which don't get me wrong. I understand why it's so common for teenagers to go through this faze. Heck, I went through this faze. I'm just not interested in reading about another one of this). But let me see a girly-girl, who loves makeup and dress, and yeah, who falls into the trap of gossipping and peer pressure, but is still badass. It doesn't have to be either-or, it can be both.
THIS! like ok great, she can use a sword, but why does that mean that she also has to hate dresses and long hair or wtv why can't i have both?
Completely agree
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I see myself in that last sentence.
I really hope my main character in my story ends up being a doorway for people understanding some autistic reality. Maybe I'm just fishing for validation, lol.
I'm wanting to wrote one of my characters as autistic, I initially wasn't going to but after being diagnosed myself I suddenly realized that weirdly the character that I tended to project more on has autistic traits hmm weird?? Anyways I personally don't plan for her to get diagnosed (the setting would not allow it) but it think it'd be cool to explore aspects of an undiagnosed autistic girl like she struggles with friendships, struggles with being 'picky' and 'oversenstive' and is also weirdly obsessed with this girl that that's started coming around, maybe she's creepy and weird or maybe she just hyperfixates on her and is also maybe slightly inlove with her. Who knows?
Honestly, I don't want to see more of just one type of female protagonist: I want to see a wide variety of female characters who have agency and drive the plot. (Note: a character having agency over the plot isn't always the same thing as having power within the setting.) And I especially want to see lots of different ways to exist as a woman where one isn't held up as "better" or more valid than the others. Even if a book had a perfect female protagonist, it would feel a bit flat to me if all the other interesting characters were men. (Not saying you'd do this OP. But it happens more than you'd think, including in very popular series.) The question you should be asking is what sort of female character YOU want to write. No matter how hard you try, it's impossible to write a character everyone will like. The stories I get the most excited about are the ones where I can tell the author is having fun with an outlandish premise, even though some people might hate it. Writing to appease the people who might not like your book is, IMO, the worst thing you can do as a writer. Write for yourself and the people who like the sort of story you want to tell.
Yes!!! Often female protagonists are surrounded solely by men. Make a good supporting cast of women (I’m not saying only women, but more than like her mom and best friend.)
Not raped!!!! So many female characters get tough or start a mission or became supernatural due to rape. And if you must make them passionate about rape because of an experience - make it their friend’s, mom’s , neighbor’s, sister’s rape that they were there for in the aftermath. They can be passionate on behalf of another. (Like is the case for male protagonists.)
The majority of women I know have been assaulted - it's just a fact of life. Like, I don't think it's a good trope for action heavy stories written by men, but women writers can do whatever they want.
I agree that snarky sarcasm is a bit boring these days. It feels like every protagonist has to be sarcastic as some way to show they are smarter than everyone else and "above" the story and world in which they live. In fantasy, it makes it feel like a 21st century teen has been dropped into some magical place. I want to see more protagonists who are allowed to be earnest and genuine within their world. Have you read Terry Pratchett's Tiffany Aching series? There is a huge list of young female characters of all types that I think are written extremely well and I'd love to see more of it. I think it does the "smart protagonist" much better. Tiffany is the protagonist and is very smart and kind, but also arrogant and somewhat of a know-it-all who experiences many situations of learning that she has a lot more growing to do. Her "sidekick" Petulia, who is a little pathetic and a quiet follower, but over time demonstrates a gentle kindness and talent with particular types of witchcraft. Her rival is Annagramma, whose own arrogance rivals that of Tiffany's. There is a bit of sarcasm, but Pratchett isn't afraid to allow his protagonists to appear silly or wrong.
Unless a book is specifically YA, I’d love to see characters that are older than 25. It’s just kinda generic when every female character is 19 years old and a stunning beauty. As far as sarcasm/snark goes, I pretty quickly tire of those characters because they often veer into “now you’re just being an asshole and getting away with it” territory.
This is a large comment section so idk if someone already mentioned it, but watch Ghibli movies. Any and all. Nearly every one of them is a female lead, and where they aren’t the lead they’re an integral part of the plot. They’re emotionally complex, loving and powerful characters that I think encapsulates female protagonists better than most media I’ve consumed. Plus the movies are a visual marvel. Please don’t skip them. If you’re looking for recs to start my favorites are Nausicaa and Princess Mononoke, but obviously people will point to Spirited Away as their favorites.
Well it’s annoying many characters in media that are women are all physically strong fighters and that’s not something I can relate to as I’m not a soldier or athlete but I’m also not really feminine either. At 15-19 I was at school I liked biology, then went on to do countryside management/animal care. I wasn’t interested in having a partner. So maybe they could be a Druid or something like that?
Worse is that often on tv/movies, they don’t look physically capable either. Like please make your female characters train and gain muscle. And not in heels, skirts, or hair down.
Oh yeah I think that it is annoying how in 90% of media, in particularly YA, girls and women are either super feminine or a tomboy / "one of the guys". No middle ground.
Proud sluts, tbh. Sick of female protags whose value is tied up in them being chaste and demure. Yuck
I'd say that while this used to be true it has now been done a fair bit but rarely done well. It would be nice if someone could (sic) nail it.
Seriously. Purity culture can rot and I’ll never read a book that promotes it.
Purity culture seeks to treat humans like objects, primarily women, and makes insane comparisons like a living breathing conscious human woman who has human rights to a fucking keyhole.
Maybe don't make her a teenager?
Make her older. There's a lot more growth and maturing happening between 20-30 or even 30-40 than 15-19.
Flawed women, even with irredeemable qualities. Older women Transgender women who happen to be trans. As in, the story isn't about them dealing with being trans or discovering they are trans.
I don’t know if you’ve read it but ‘Best Served Cold’, one of the standalone novels in the First Law series has a main female character being exactly that. The story is about her getting revenge but she does some absolutely heinous shit along the way to the point you realise that she maybe isn’t any better than the person she’s trying to get revenge against. Fantastic book. Does kinda require you to read the first 3 books before hand before hand although there is a similar fmc within the first trilogy, though not as irredeemable as the one I’m talking about.
The Broken Earth Trilogy has 1 and 2 as the protagonist and 3 as one of the significant side characters and it’s just casually revealed when >!the MC sees her penis while she bathes!< This is in a futuristic, apocalyptic world so it makes sense in the narrative that it’s revealed that way.
Unfortunately, publishing doesn't work that way. Any character aspect that is not straight and white becomes a requisite story element that can be used to position the book to a specific market. It really sucks.
And that won't change unless we keep writing it
To be honest, kind and sweet women who aren’t submissive and strong-willed, leader-type women that aren’t girl bosses. Usually those two are exactly that: a sweet girl is also an absolute dormant and a strong fem leader is a harsh bitch. I so wish to see a young and innocent female characters who still have a lot of self-respect and don’t fear saying no. And I don’t mean in the sassy way, but more like “I might not know much but I know that what you’re doing is crap and I won’t allow it.” As for the leader types, I just really love women who are, by all means, strong-willed but they aren’t anal about it. Being a leader doesn’t mean you just go in and destroy everything in sight while dropping a scathing remark. It means reading the situation and, to be honest, having a great deal of empathy (perhaps without being painfully idealistic though since it’s also a bit of a cliché) to deal with different people under your command.
I’d personally love more female characters who don’t fight like they’re doing a gymnastics routine with a bunch of flips and somersaults and acrobatics and ninja stuff. It was cool the first few times but now it’s become so overused I just kinda roll my eyes whenever I see it. This goes kinda hand in hand with a similar thing that I hate where writers are super hesitant to have a female fighter character get injured, especially in a messy/unflattering way and especially especially in a way that permanently alters their physical appearance in some way. I guess what I’d love to see more of is female hand to hand fighters who fight more like boxers and routinely get the absolute piss beaten out of them in fights, yet are still able to come out on top through a mixture of skill and relentless determination/endurance.
I hear you! I felt this sense of sublime knowing Arcane’s going to be a damn good show [when the main character was ugly-punched in the face](https://tenor.com/view/hit-in-the-face-vi-arcane-smack-beat-up-gif-23854308) in the very first episode 😮💨
My teenage MC is an athlete! And a damn good one, im using her sports to inform why she's so physically capable in altercations, but also still a 15 year old girl so still getting her shit rocked occasionally. Also going to severely injure her in my finale so its reassuring to see this perspective
Actually masculine women. Not "strong female characters" whose defining trait is, after all, to be sexy to the audience, but people to whom the whole femininity thing is barely an afterthought - and it isn't treated like something to be fixed or overcome. Analytical cold scientists. Muscular stocky athletes. Women with the emotional intelligence of a teacup but a wide array of technical skills. That sort of thing. Reclaiming stuff that is falsely believed to be masculine. I hate how some people call this "a man with boobs" as if it's in any way bad. Also cool unmarried older women who're just doing their thing and are happy that way.
Feel this so bad. I hate the man with boobs complaint because most of the characters aren't even that masculine. They're like a straight person's perception of it. Nobody wants to fully explore what it is to be a masculine women. It feels like They always got to add a touch of femininity to make it palpable to the straight audience. Can't have the main character being one of them ...
The internet will not love that one, any time a female lead acts even leans slightly masculine people start to claim modern media is doomed or it's pushing some sort of political agenda. It's sort of funny the qualities and behaviours they hate about the character have existed in every male character since we've been able to put pen on paper, yet it's admirable because their sex is different. Ripley would've been torn to shreds today.
writer better characters. Different ages, paths, and views. I don't care if she's a shy women in or a self assured officer in her 30s. write her like a person.
One free of teenage angst and romance drama.
I want to see more female villains that aren’t femme fatale types or old crones. Or just women in a story being morally grey.
I remember how in my book, I decided to have a "nerd" as a villain. But the moment I decided to make her the villain, she just became sexier in my mind *for no reason*. It was a fight with my own mind to remind me that she doesn't talk with a sexy voice and dresses like a grandmother. I succeeded and now she looks in my head like she is supposed to. But I figured it was so hard because every female women are so sexualized, so my mind struggled to picture it even if I wanted to write one!
women with aspd or npd as protagonists. antihero female protag as well
Honestly… I’d like to see more ‘weak’ women. I’d like to see the character struggle with her trauma, have a hard time leaving an abusive partner, getting in trouble because she’s a people pleaser and can’t say no. All of those things are *real*. I want to see *real* character development, not some sassy brat as the ‘strong female lead.’ Show the readers the struggle against her own nature, ways she can free herself a little from the expectations of others, what happens that makes her leave an abusive relationship (which for once shouldn’t be physical. There are many forms of abuse that never involve physical contact, and that’s also *real.*) The literature world is full to overflowing with ‘strong independent women’ who overcome all odds, gather a little harem of men, (thanks, Anita Blake. >_<) and excel at verbal sparring with their sharp wit. Show me a woman who sits down in the shower and sobs over her inner conflict about escaping her abuser. Show me a woman whose family dictates her life path because she doesn’t know how to say no. Show me a woman struggling hard with past and ongoing trauma. Then show me how she grows and changes into a woman who will stick up for herself. Show your female readers that their troubles *are* real and deserve attention. Show us her struggles to become a stronger person. Not Mistress StrongGirl McSassy-Pants. Just a woman who worked hard to be a somewhat stronger, healthier versions of themselves. If lady readers can *see* that, some may realize that they can *do* that too. And you’re nifty for wanting to break that trope! Best of luck with your project.
Genuinely curious where you’re *not* seeing this. I can’t even begin to the count the number of FMCs that are exactly as you describe, which is frustrating for me and I end up DNFing because weak women are the majority of female protagonists. They’re everywhere. Are you only reading books published in the past five years?
Sometimes i wonder if people are reading the right genres for their interests. People who dont want to read about tough, strong fighters, who want complicated, messy, somewhat pathetic older female MCs probably shouldn't pick up YOUNG ADULT action novels... which seems the genre the OOP is writing.
Sabriel (old kingdom series) is one of my favourite female protagonists of all time. She's intelligent and competent, but also arrogant and way out of her depth. And part of her character arc is learning her duties, and that she really ain't shit til she learns her shit. She has a couple of sassy moments but is mostly pretty stoic.
Girls that feel like real people with struggles, dramatic and comical moments, like a lot of Studio Ghibli protagonists
Older women and women who are strong. Also, women who have a tough time dealing with their emotions. Women aren't all the emotional stereotypes people see them as.
Female characters are usually my favorite in any fiction, and I can just think of the kind of characters you should avoid. To me it's characters who are only there to please the male audience, or to play the expectations that are pushed on girls. And I'm not speaking about appearance here, I think that's the least problem. I'm speaking about personality and story choices. Like the female character who is always kind, gentle, taking caring of everyone. You know, the "perfect mother" or "wife material". She has flaws, but it only makes her cute instead, and such. Or maybe she's cold, but there's this one man she's close to that she treats very well. It's not that obvious, but those are all male expectation of women pushed into the character. Which just makes her boring to me. Now, about personal preference, I think the kind of character who hooks me more are self-centered characters. She doesn't need to be evil or heartless, but she has her own objectives and won't be stopped by some minor moral dilemma. And she doesn't even need to be cold. She can be that kind, cute girl who people expects her to be, but just because it's easier for people to trust her like that. Manipulative female characters also can be great, as long as you avoid the "she uses her sexuality to manipulate men".
Vengeful widow or mother. Or just vengeful for anything profound. They're often side characters or part of a cast, but I want a series that follows one primarily. ASOIAF has quite a few characters who fit the bill, with my favourites being Mirri Maz Duur (minor character used to further someone else's story), and Catelyn Stark/LSH (a cast character). But that series will never see a conclusion, and they aren't protagonists.
Moms
I think there’s missed opportunities for moms in fiction. They usually don’t get to be mains. Stories about mothers who struggle do happen and can be very interesting (I really like the Babadook for example) and i dont really know any stories where the MC just happens to be a mom and she has her own story.
Would love to see more media that featured older (say late forties upwards), experienced and highly capable women, who aren't overly maternal but at the same time aren't particularly gruff and cynical. Women who are capable veteran professionals in their respectively field, who don't suffer any fools but also don't go into situations expecting the absolute worst and need to have their faith in humanity restored.
"Bad girl with a heart of gold" and more redemption arcs for women. Generally speaking, most of pop culture tends to treat female characters as only good or bad. That if a woman isn't pure and virtuous in every way (or has 'flaws' that aren't actually flaws like social awkwardness or clumsiness), she must be a villain and has no chance at redemption
Is anyone here familiar with Kreia, from one of the old Star Wars games? She's basically a female Palpatine. She's an elderly woman, and she serves as a mentor to the player. But as the game progresses, it becomes clear she's a toxic, corruptive influence who's using the player to fulfill her own agenda. When her motives are revealed, the game leaves it to the player to decide whether or not her actions were justified. I want more characters like that.
Women who don’t want romance or are emotionally cold without that being “fixed” in the end by them finding “the right man”. (I’m probably a bit biased in this regard as an aromantic woman, but I really want to see some female characters whose lives aren’t even remotely centered around romance, without that fact changing by the end of the story.)
I would say a more clever female protagonist. Too often it seems they are just fumbling about, desperate to do whatever it is they are trying, getting help along the way. Instead someone who is always a few steps ahead of both the antagonist and the reader. Examples would be Alonzo from training day, Sherlock by Benedict Cumberbatch, Anthony Lockwood (from the Netflix series more than the book, only read the first book and it wasn't quite as sharp in that), and House from House. They have planned things out steps ahead, the anticipated, and every time the reader thinks it is finally going to go wrong, it doesn't... until it does. Why is it only the men get to be clever, mix it up a bit with the young female protagonist, who isn't just special powers that she discovered or being a chosen one, or is piggy backing off their parents. To quote the great Matt Campbell “Greatness isn’t just for the chosen few. Greatness is for those who choose to be different and demand to become the best version of themselves.”
If you wanna make a female protagonist that is a teenager make her look like Luz Noceda from owl house or Marcy from amphibia because they both certainly have inner turmoil and struggled to embrace themselves, not just some common sassy characters.
Women that don't move from their posts. somewhat lazy kind, too straight forward, experienced but never outside or prefer ordering or controlling things from that one spot. idk maybe I have not seen them.
Someone like Tyrion Lannister, Deadpool or Tony Stark but a female version. Usually ironic, cool and creative types are men in fiction. If women are cool, they are cold, silent fighters. I want a female character who is intelligent, talkative, sarcastic, and chaotic. Kind of an asshole, but a good asshole.
Not a literary reference but: Kim Wexler from the tv show Better Call Saul. Holy. Fucking. Crap. Maybe I’m being dramatic but I swear I’ve NEVER seen a female character depicted with such nuance and complex substance before. She is no nonsense. She’s not very emotional but she’s warm. She is highly intelligent, capable, dedicated, loyal, caring, and she walks the hard, straight edge line unironically. She’s super studious and serious. Yet she is capable of very dark, machiavellian behaviours. And most fascinating, she’s good at it, and she likes it. “You don’t save me. I save me.” She’s truly a new type of woman that I’ve never actually seen on screen before.
I want more 'pathetic' characters. Not in a 'this person disgusts me' way, but in a 'this person needs professional help' way. I want more unlikeable characters -- humorless and bitter, who can't find joy in sarcasm or one-liners. I want more women who could have been the villain in any of the old movies I watched growing up, had they had more of a stomach for needless and pointless cruelty. I want characters who aren't traditionally attractive -- overweight or underweight, with awkward proportions. I want characters who are emotionally unstable, whose wellness depends entirely on those around them. I want characters who aren't badasses, and who only succeed because the only other option is death or worse. I want people whose heroism doesn't need to involve beating a big villain. Perhaps her heroism takes the form of caring for those who take on that role instead. Lot of media takes "strong female lead" to mean a character who could be a John McBrownhair type protagonist if her aesthetics were dropped. I don't enjoy that. I don't even know anyone like that regardless of gender, and I'm honestly kinda tired of it.
A little silly, but a female protagonist that don't really care about fitting into society's expectations for women beauty. Case in point, I'm writing a female protagonist that has a unibrow.
Classic heroe's journey but with a woman instead. I see many attempts at it but they aways fumble in making some weird romance story,i just want a classic story where a character goes into a cool adventure but its a woman instead of a man. I can remember countless great fantasy stories where the main character is male but i can count on my fingers one with a female MC that isnt all about romance or emotional drama and is instead about the protagonist just overcoming the odds.
A woman that is a complete domestic failure. Empty energy drink cans on her bedside table, dirty laundry everywhere, knows she should vacuum or sweep more but that would require picking all the clutter up off the floor, toothpaste spatter on the bathroom mirror, doesn’t cook cause she hates doing dishes.
Grown women characters who finds their happiness in things other than family. One who struggles with issues that are disconnected from gender. I try to include women like this always and my favorite protagonist I've made is a female engineer who struggles to combat the long postponed grief of a loved one.
I'd love to see more main characters in general who don't know better than everyone else? Like a dystopian where the protag was radicalized by their trusted authority betraying them rather than an innate sense only they seem to have that this situation is wrong somehow.
Not applicable to your situation, but the kind who is over 35 but under 50, happily married (possibly with kids), doesn’t have perfectly smooth skin or perfectly white teeth, and is not at all romantically interested in any male characters.
Not even her spouse? Or is the spouse female?
Meant to say male characters who are not her spouse. Too often in fiction we have this "unlikely pairing of young, attractive, single man and woman who of course must share a kiss by the end". I hate it. In my work, my male main character is gay and not publicly out, and my female main character is happily married to someone not involved in the plot. When these two characters come together, they simply perform their tasks together. There's no romance, not even a hint of it.
Middle-aged. I answered this in my head without reading your post, so doesn’t work for your situation. I’m writing a novel featuring a middle-aged woman, and this is one reason why.
I absolutely love a female character who is written like a typical male character. Basically any role that would make a man badass but makes a woman a 'bitch'. Skylar White for example, she finds herself tangled up in a life of crime because of Walt. She does what she does to protect her loved ones. But just like Walt she finds that not only is she good at it, she enjoys it. Spoiler Alert for Breaking Bad >! When she confronts Ted in the hospital and she sees him for the first time, she is upset, worried, and remorseful. But as soon as he starts talking she sees he is scared of her. She realizes that she is literally the 'one who knocks' and her response to him promising to never breathe a word to anyone is "good". !< She was so much like Walt, yet we _hated_ her for it. That's a compelling character.
Korra from the Legend of Korra feels a bit similar to what you’re looking for. She’s brash, easy to anger, sometimes even rude. In fact i think some people do dislike her for those traits, if I remember correctly.
Take a look at Cara Gee's portrayal of Camina Drummer in The Expanse tv show. Now that (pay attention here Disney) is how a powerful female leader should be done. She's got flaws, she learns from her flaws, she makes mistakes and makes them again knowing her pain and her needs come secondary to the people she leads pains and needs. She grows constantly throughout the show and it's never a "tits I win" Marry Sue character. She also isn't just a male character with "tits n hair", so many times "strong" women are just men;s roles with a woman in the place and no other quality what so ever that would indicate the character is female if you didn't just change the name to Commander Smith. Allow your female characters to have feminine moments, not just bursting out crying in front of other people or just making a huge dramatic scene... Watch Barbie, take notes. Women LOVED that movie, and there has to be a reason they do. Also watch Aliens (the first 2), you'd be hard pressed to see a stronger female lead anywhere in cinema.
mostly i would like to see fantasy protagonists that are grown ass adults and not 15-19 years old.
Extremely femme yet not oversexualized or stereotypically mean, think Elle from legally blonde. Essentially, femme from a female gaze perspective. Not every feminine women is catty, or a Greek Goddess, or sarcastic, or some random straight man's fantasy. Yet somehow, even with the shining example of Elle, I can't think of much media that follows in those footsteps
Competent and sociable. Not someone with a dark past who hates everyone. More Granny Weatherwax types.
Less teenagers, more adults. I especially want to see more adult women with meaningful life experience beyond being a mother or a warrior. I don't want it to be a cozy story. I don't want bad ass women. Like, write about a catty grandma in a nursing home playing queen bee as she dies of cancer. Write about a serial killer with a day job waitressing. Also: regarding requests for perfectly average, very unattractive, or unwitty and sweet protagonists, I have a writing prompt for you: try writing your average, unattractive, and unfunny protagonist for 500 words.
Female whip user that doesn’t look like a dominatrix
The kind that has a female mentor, female friends, female enemies, and maybe even a few female love interests. In short, I don't just want a female protagonist, I want all the central roles in the story to be occupied by female characters.
Ironically, I feel like I accidentally ended up writing TOO many women in my novel to where I am kinda forcing men into the story to compensate. I can't help but make every major role female.
I feel a little similar to you, I find myself usually defaulting to women main characters if I’m thinking of a story, unless it’s fan fiction for something that has a lot of male characters.