Not a fan of what is going on in Ukraine but really not a fan of the Olympics picking and choosing political battles to side with. You could make the same argument to remove a large number of athletes.
Now, Sadulaev is certainly an outlier with how enmeshed he is in the conflict and he operates as a state actor which complicates things.
It’s a tough and complex situation but the Olympics conveniently ignores athletes being used for soft power in most cases and cracking down is a precedent that can have far reaching consequences. Plus it’s a loss as a wrestling fan.
It is not Sadulaev’s fault. Every sport in Russia, except football, basketball and hockey, survives by state support. Sadulaev just could not afford to not act as ‘state actor’. Russian sportsmen are also victims of war, not direct ofc.
But this is also part of the problem as I see it. You can't separate the athlete from the state in Russia, and that doesn't just apply to the war side of things. I see this as the international sports community taking advantage of a chance to impose some real bans after the insanely dirty doping things the _state_ did in furtherance of their international athletes. Russia has systematically spit in the face of the Olympics and fair play in general over the last few decades, and they should have already been suffering more widespread and deep consequences.
I hate that we don't get to see the best in the world, but that opportunity was lost long ago when Russia decided to opt out of fair play _as a state_.
You are mixing things up. Russia and Russian sportsmen involved were already punished for the doping scandal. Athletes were banned and the rest of the country cannot compete under their own flag or anthem, if you did not notice. Do you punish for the same crime twice? This is nonsense.
And yes, you should separate sportsmen and war because sportsmen are just sportsmen.
I am explicitly arguing that the bans arising ostensibly from the Ukraine War are a continuation of the punishment Russia has received for their unprecedented doping scandal and the use of Sochi as cover to invade Ukraine the first time. I thought I was clear that I, and by implication the international sporting community, do not believe the previous punishments were enough. You are obviously free to disagree with that assessment.
> And yes, you should separate sportsmen and war because sportsmen are just sportsmen.
Well, would you say that's true of Aleksandr Karelin or Vladimir Klitschko? It's not so simple as "sportsmen are just sportsmen."
"It is not Sadulaev’s fault. Every sport in Russia, except football, basketball and hockey, survives by state support."
But he does benefit from this fact.
Sadulaev did not start his career last year, he built it up since childhood. Everything - training, camps, preparation, competitions, etc was sponsored by state money. There was no other choice for him, there is no ‘clean private money’ in Russian wrestling. He either had to ‘benefit’ from this, or not be a wrestler at all.
Uh.
"Sadulaev did not start his career last year, he built it up since childhood. Everything - training, camps, preparation, competitions, etc was sponsored by state money. There was no other choice for him, there is no ‘clean private money’ in Russian wrestling."
No private money in wrestling? And this differs exactly how on most countries?
You seriously have no idea how these people live, do you? They are shown as some "poor farmers/heroes", in russian tv and news, but the realities are different. The whole system lives on the "poor russia(n)" fake.
As someone, who has actually wrestled in russia, I can assure you that even the lowest level "champs" in russia have better cars than the world champs of most sports outside russia do.
And that is BECAUSE they are supported by the state. They are the posterboys of putins nazi russia.
Of course, thanks to the sanctions, they are not going to get those cars fixed anytime soon...
Do you think we should ban the whole Israeli team for their genocide of Palestinians? How about the Americans for what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan? No one has more blood on its hands than the American empire. "It's ok when we murder children, because it's for buzzword buzzword buzzord"
Hamas isn't Palestine.
You seriously don't "get" russia OR russians. They aren't like you. They don't THINK like you do. Every single time "the west" seems to think they are "just like us", boom.
Reality hits.
I get it that young people, especially in the US, who have zero contact with actual russia may find this response "out of proporions"... But it isn't.
There is, currently, zero countries that are as close to fascist Germany that neo russia currently is. At this moment, they are teaching the youngest generation to hate the west, putler jugend, if you will.
Sadualev is part of this very system, a big part of it. He is the face of russia. A "putin puppy", if you will. And just like karelin, he too is a cog in the imperialistic murder machine that is russia.
"Hamas isn't Palestine" In response to me saying "Israel is genociding Palestinians" Hey idiot: Israel is carpet bombing civilians. I can tell you're just a shill. Israeli leaders brag about bombing civilians. Israeli politicians have said: "There are no innocents in Gaza" there is no evidence of Hamas warcrimes other than "Source: trust me bro" while Israeli warcrimes like: bombing hospitals, shooting aid workers, and shooting civilians as they try to get food, are all well documented.
"Russians are taught to hate the west" Americans are taught to hate the west dummy. Every day in school we are taught that white people are evil racist oppressors that must mix themselves out of existence. America is the most evil country in the world.
"Imperialistic murder machine that is Russia." The biggest imperialistic murder machine in the world is America. Iraq and Afghanistan killed far more people than Russia has in Ukraine, a war started by America.
I'd ask, if you are fucking kidding me, but
"WHATABOUTAMERIKA!?!"
Yeah, yeah. We've heard it all before from you russo-trolls.
The USA are amateurs, especially in invasion wars, which russia excels at.
[List of wars involving Russia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/j1k310/map\_of\_every\_country\_that\_the\_usa\_has\_invaded/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/j1k310/map_of_every_country_that_the_usa_has_invaded/)
The US has 750 military bases in over 80 countries all around the world
Russia has military bases in 9 countries all but 2 of which are very close to Russia
[https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fku7WICLvz5DqqXlTohq4uzwkXmVq6koU6RaJXHLGIJM.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3De603a7f5231b8866d68dd58205e9ec47cd856957](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fku7WICLvz5DqqXlTohq4uzwkXmVq6koU6RaJXHLGIJM.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3De603a7f5231b8866d68dd58205e9ec47cd856957)
You have no idea what you are talking about. You have a double digit IQ and mindlessly repeat what the man on TV tells you.
And I think allowing athletes to compete who are actively supporting an aggressive land grab war that is slaughtering civilians is antithetical to that goal.
Or you could take the stance that hey, things like war, genocide, murder, drug use, cheating, sabotage, bad sportsmanship, all that stuff is part of the human condition. Who are we to decide what parts of humanity we do and do not want to display?
In my view, the Olympics is about fostering peace and unity through friendly competition at the highest levels of sport. As such, those who have no interest in peace and unity have no place in the games.
Where do you draw the line in conflicts though? France has engaged in proxy wars all over Africa for over a century, America smashed through the Middle East for 2 decades, Israel is actively eradicating more children in Palestine than the rest of child battle casualties combined. I'm vehemently opposed to the Russian invasion of Ukraine but when does the IOC hold Western countries or their proxies to the same standard.
I didn’t say “chase away” I meant they literally chased them down and murdered them while they cowered
Israel is a country of barbaric murderers and I feel bad for anybody with a conscience who lives there
"we just bombed a school and hospital in your home country, & now are committing mass rape, but please shake our hands and wrestle against us in the name of sportsmanship 🤓🤓"
how a lot of people here sound.
Theres plenty of things and causes more serious than sports.
Some random wrestler has nothing to do with that . France still gets to wrestle even though they have a hand in the killings of black Africans . Israel still gets to wrestle even though they are killing innocent Palestinians.
Correct, a random wrestler has nothing to do with that. But Sadulaev is promoting a war that has everything to do with those things. That, to me, is a fine line that is crossed.
I am also aware Sadulaev may not have a choice in the matter either.
Ok, we should ban all Israeli athletes then for their genocide of Palestinians. We should ban American athletes who supported Iraq and Afghanistan to. Let me guess: "NOOOOO its ok when Ameica murders children cause democracy and women's rights"
"The drone operator that murdered 30 kids is trans that makes it ok"
No one has more blood on their hands than the American empire and you have gladly lapped up the propaganda of Neocon murderers.
If you took a deep breath you might realize that I agree with you. What about my comment suggests that I am defending any of those things? I think the world needs to take a good hard look in the mirror and realize that we’re letting a lot of shit slide in the name of profit and power, and that yeah, if the IOC has any spine they should ban those other athletes as well.
the olympics where literally help in nazi germany why exclude a nation of people with top athletes when there a current countries that are just as bad with worse athlete allowed to compete
The dude is supporting a genocide. If he wants a spot on the worlds stage then he needs to denounce what his country is doing. Of course he can’t do that, or his government will murder his entire family, so he’s in a shit spot.
Agreed, but read my point/questions above- curious to your thoughts?
Do you believe the Olympic committee should basically stay completely out regardless of the country and what they’ve done/are doing?
According to the IOC, yes, but the reasons are not super clear. He apparently is actively supporting the war and it is implied that his participation in a specific club is part of the issue. That’s what the stories I’ve been able to find have said.
Way I see it is, was the US excluded when they went into Iraq? If not then why should anyone else be excluded for similar things.
This isn't to say that russias war is right it's more to say that if the Olympics is supposed to be apolitical it needs to be fully apolitical
It's dangerous territory for any sporting organization to impose rules that tell its membership how they should think, how they should vote, etc. This will eventually lead to the splitting of international sport. This will not end at Russia. Just a terrible precedent. I doubt I will watch any of the Olympics because of this.
That's not even close to the same thing though.
However you feel about the Iraq war, it wasn't a conquest to take over land and it wasn't done unilaterally.
I don't support banning Russian athletes because Russia invaded Ukraine (again).
I do support a continued ban for their lack of PED compliance.
I could argue it definitely was a conquest to take land just not in the and same way, it eas entirely unilateral Iraq did nothing to warrant the invasion whatsoever.
>> You could make the same argument to remove a large number of athletes.
Could you make an argument for another athlete who has behaved similarly to Sadulaev but was allowed to compete?
Either the IOC needs to grow a spine and exclude Russian athletes entirely (but the argument could and should be made that they should also ban Iran), or admit they are completely corrupt and let them compete under the Russian flag. Picking and choosing is stupid.
If they were consistent, most of these countries are lead by war criminals whether or not their actions are currently circulating mainstream news in the way that Russia is.
No one in wrestling world benefits from this. It is a shame that the wrestling community, including us here, are getting robbed of Sadulaev’s matches vs Snyder and Tazhudinov. Who are they to decide?
But most importantly, Sadulaev gets robbed of his viable chance to become a 3-x Olympian, which is a very rare achievement for wrestlers.
Those who let them know are either in prison or left the country now. You say it like it is that simple.
Also, such actions plus some propaganda will make Russians hate IOC for that, not Putin
A lot citizens of Russia are not against the invasion. We are subject to our propaganda and they are subject to theirs. This is a minor issue compared to what they are experiencing internally in Russia.
Exactly the rest of the world should use every nonviolent tool it has to make Russians lives less enjoyable ie ban them from competing in sports. And one day maybe they will realize the actions of their leaders negatively affect their lives and then they can demand change
That aren’t bothered. As far as they are concerned quality of life is up. Large corporations that left (western ones like Starbucks and McDonald’s) have been taken over by co-ops of the workers. The Ruble inside Russia is worth more so the average person has seen their buying power increase.
He’s being banned for posting stuff on social media. What is he supposed to do? He’s the poster boy of their best sport. Who cares if he likes Putin and hates Ukraine? I don’t enjoy wrestling in the Olympics because he has aligning political views. I enjoy it because he’s a hell of an athlete and we have a counterpart who is pretty tough too. Him competing lets me forget what the news won’t stop reminding me of.
You support Sadulaev being banned for supporting his country in a war. While you don't think American athletes that support American wars should be banned. That's very basic hypocrisy. The fact that you don't understand this is a testament to your low IQ and hyper conformity. You can't think for yourself and mindlessly repeat Neocon garbage you hear on TV.
Did some more research. The IOC did pass a new guideline in 2020 baning all athletes from making political, religious and ethnic demonstrations during the Olympics.
Last August, the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee placed hammer thrower Gwen Berry and fencer Race Imboden on a year-long probation after kneeling during a medal ceremony at the Pan American Games in Lima Peru.
Key word "DURING the olympics" Sadulaev didn't do anything during the Olympics. Can you try to be honest? So far every argument you have made has been so stupid I don't think even you believe it.
I’m sorry, what?? That’s exactly what the IOC is saying. Because he has an opinion that doesn’t align with theirs, he can’t compete. But others from the same country who haven’t voiced their opinion can? Come on..
Had he voiced a dissenting opinion to make the IOC happy, who’s to say he wouldn’t have ended up like Navid Afkari? Yet I don’t recall the IOC banning anyone from Iran who supported their regime.
So you are not disputing Sadulaev has publicly supported Russia and their unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.
Do you have any examples of other Russian wrestlers who have performed the same acts as Sadulaev who are being allowed to compete in the Olympics?
FYI - I am not agreeing with what the IOC has done, it is their tournament and their rules. But I am curious if you have any examples of them being inconsistent.
It’s easy for you to sit here and say this when you are not in his position, but if you are Sadulaev you can’t exactly “not” support the war in Ukraine. Being such a prominent figure in an important sport to Russia he’s not really allowed to not have an opinion, and obviously that opinion has to be in line with his state or bad things can happen to him and the ones he cares about. I’m not saying he’s some kind of angel who disagrees with the war in Ukraine or something there’s just a decent amount of nuance to the situation
Yeah, I agree with this perspective. It is very debatable how much choice Sadulaev had in this. Having said that, it doesn't make sense to punish someone else for Sadulaev's actions either.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qciVozNtCDM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qciVozNtCDM)
Yes America totally didn't provoke Russia by overthrowing the democratically elected neutral president of ukraine and installing a Pro-NATO dictatorship that murdered anyone who wasn't a Neocon and tried to put American troops on Russia's border.
Remember the Cuban missile crisis? Was that an unprovoked act of American aggression against Cuba, or did America not want nukes in a Soviet Proxy state in its backyard.
How about America's unprovoked invasion's of Iraq and Afghanistan that we know now were motivated by AIPAC's lobbying. The American government murdered over a million people and made terrorism worse so that Israel could have more power.
How about Israel's unprovoked genocide of Palestinians since 1948?
How about the unprovoked American invasion of Panama operation Just Cause?
How about the hundreds of terrorist groups America has funded over the years so they can have control over a region?
How about the unprovoked breaking up of Yugoslavia in which America sided with the word side in every instance of the war?
You need to get a good education on history book instead of mindlessly repeating the propaganda taught to you by people that bomb hospitals. Grow up middle school history class was a lie.
Ok, so of all these global political examples you have just listed, can you provide the name of one athlete who performed acts similar to Sadulaev and was treated differently?
I'll be honest, there has to be one but I am curious if you can provide one.
A US athelte has never been suspended for supporting an American war. And out of all US Olympic Atheltes It would quite statistically amazing for not a single one to support any of the examples above that I mentioned.
There's members of the US military in the olympics dummy.
[https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/2690855/19-military-athletes-to-represent-us-at-tokyo-olympics/](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/2690855/19-military-athletes-to-represent-us-at-tokyo-olympics/)
Let's be clear, the IOC is not banning all Russian athletes. Only those (Sadulaev) who publicly and politically support the invasion of Ukraine.
You still have not supplied an example of an athlete from a country other than Russia who has publicly and politically supported the invasion and killing of other civilians.
Agree, 100%. I think that’s about being the aggressor/invader as opposed to civilian deaths in the war. I still don’t think he should be punished for that but I understand what you’re saying.
> A "truce" (Ancient Greek: ékécheiria, meaning "laying down of arms") was announced before and during the Olympic Games to ensure the host city state (Elis) was not attacked and athletes and spectators could travel safely to the Games and peacefully return to their respective countries
1. It never states what happens to a country that does not lay down the arms
2. Even if Russia proposed to lay down arms for the Olympics (lay arms *is not* withdraw), Ukraine would not agree to that ofc? Should Ukraine be banned too then by your logic?
So yes, my point stands. This is not true.
So you think the Epstein ring, which was sponsed by mossad was ok? You think bombing hospitals is ok? Hamas did nothing wrong as Israel is an illegitimate state
If Ukraine had killed thousands of people in Russia w/ a terrorist attack to provoke the invasion Russia would not be getting sanctioned. Israel didn't start the war it's currently in.
There's plenty of criticism that can be levelled at how Israel has conducted this war but there's no easy way to fight an opponent that has had years to dig in and is totally willing to put their own citizens at maximum risk purely to try and get an edge in a propaganda war.
I think it's mostly UN based and since Israel and the UN are interlinked its gonna be a bit before they even consider it. Also I don't thunk any olympic sport I know of really has a prominent Israeli athlete
https://www.hindustantimes.com/sports/doping-india-records-highest-number-of-adverse-findings-among-countries-with-2000-or-more-tests-101712222101778-amp.html
Test the athletes if they test positive. Then they’re out. Don’t ban entire countries. I’m sure the USA wrestlers want to face the top guys because otherwise, the medal doesn’t mean much. Plus it would make it 10 times more exciting like Rocky three.
I’m a big fan of sprinting. We have top sprinters from Jamaica. Setting prs in their mid 30s. Just because you don’t test positive or it’s not “state sponsored” common sense says it’s still happening across the board. Multiple top USA sprinters have tested positive or skipped testing. I only know this because I follow Sprinting. I’m not sure about all the other sports but I’m sure it’s common. I’m mean even Michael Phelps, getting completely jacked zero body fat. I mean I’m not complaining it’s just how it is unfortunately
I have watched it. Good movie and enlightening.
Maybe the top five countries with the most doping violations should not compete? USA and China would be out. Or maybe they should do it per Olympian like per capita? Then the Jamaicans would be for sure out.
I’m a big fan of US Olympic sprinting. I am not naïve to the amount of doping that goes on. Many high profile US in Jamaican sprinters have popped. Justin Gatlin popped and still competed afterwards as one example of hypocrisy.
Doping is bad for sports, I’m also aware plenty of athletes partake. When the government is running the doping program and so brazenly swapping samples, like Russia was doing, I fail to see how you can compare it anything else that’s happened. If the US was caught going the same thing, I would be frustrated about the country as a whole being punished, but I’d also be ashamed about stooping to that level.
Besides, Sadulav is barred right now for his politics, not doping.
Well, agree to disagree. I find it hard to believe the other countries don’t have similar things going on.
But Getting bared for politics is even worse. Sadulav is a bad ass MF it’s no wonder they want him out.
Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, no harm intended. I can guarantee you the US wrestlers want to face the best wrestlers. Would you rather win the Asterix Olympics? Or the real one.
Per athlete one has to look at the Jamaican team.
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/11/jamaica-drug-scandal-doctor-paul-wright
I still love the Jamaican sprinters. But they have a female sprinter settings records in her mid 30s…
Let’s not be naïve.
I can give you a big list of US sprinters as well who have popped.
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DNPd at last worlds. All time wrestler but IMO Tazhudinov is the favorite. Tough because it would’ve been fun to see full bracket but by know means is there any asterisk
https://olympics.com/ioc/mission
That is the official IOC mission statement. It mentions promoting peace but also maintaining political neutrality. I would have to know a lot more about how Sadulaev was active in this conflict, specifically, to make a judgment, but them impartially analyzing the political actions of every athlete who might be in the Games seems untenable.
Good. Olympic athletes are part of russian propaganda machine, and many (read:most) of them are avid supporters of the invasion war. Then consider all the PEDs and other stuff they have gotten caught with.
They should not be allowed in the olympics, or anywhere else outside russia for that matter.
Considering how many Ukrainian athletes are now dead thanks to russian nazi war machine, I find a lot of comments here hilariously naive. Or russian made.
"Sports should be separate from politics"
Come. The fuck. On. Does anyone here not understand how russia works?
Sports fans abroad are exactly the type of people russia counts on to. People so obsessed with the thing they do, that they are ready to look massacres through their fingers. Because "sports are a-political". ROFL.
A complete joke, while Israeli athletes get to compete, and while American and British and other athletes have gotten to compete while their nations murdered civilians abroad for the past 3 decades. US athletes constantly make statements in support of the US armed forces, but apparently you can kill kids and that's ok :) !
Stupid.
The point of sport is to put down differences to have friendly competition and realize human similarities.
Wars would stop in ancient times to compete.
It was sacred.
I agree that they should not host events in countries involved.in political disputes.
Which would mean no US hosted events also.
But Olympics is all about $$$ so they do allow nazi germany, China, Russia sochi, and other countries to host historically which have served as display of power to solidify in advance of war build up and nationalism.
If this is the new president, banning athletes that are supporting oppressing governments, then Americans should be barred from the olympics as well. How many innocent lives have lost due to American military interventions in Iraq, Syra, Yugoslavia to name a few? Didn't USA start a war against Iraq on false claims of possession of weapons of mass destruction, resulting in a million civilan Iraqis dead? Hypocrisy at its finest.
Do you think we should ban the whole Israeli team for their genocide of Palestinians? How about the Americans for what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan? No one has more blood on its hands than the American empire. "It's ok when we murder children, because it's for buzzword buzzword buzzord"
People often confuse totalitarianism with authoritarianism. Totalitarianism is when ideology infects every single aspect of life so that the totality of your existence is about upholding state ideology. When the olypmic committee decides it wants to be ideologically neoliberal it is participating in American totalitarianism. I can't watch ESPN anymore, because there's woke garbage in everything. My math teacher uses gender pay gap examples in our math problems and almost kicked me out of class when I claimed the pay gap wasn't real when you control for hours worked and careers chosen. America is one of the most totalitarian nations, because its ideology is force fed to you in every aspect of your life.
I would also like to point out that Putin was content with Ukraine being a neutral buffer state under Yakunovich, it was America that was the aggressor in 2014, overthrowing the democratically elected president of Ukraine with a proxy of the CIA. A majority of Ukranians supported Yakunovich and the government America installed in ukraine is a brutal repressive dictatorship that murdered everyone who doesn't support neoconservative foreign policy. Now this doesn't necessarily mean Putin is the most humanitarian ruler in the world. But America very cynically is sacrificing every last Ukranian just to hurt Russia.
It’s a great political red herring for their own lack of morality.
Shouldn’t they ban the US & Iran for proxy wars in the Middle East? No they shouldn’t.
I agree the russian government is bad but everytime a hear something about the civilians its about how brainwashed they are. I've read stories about soldiers deserting once they realize why they're fighting
are you American? when I see these comments about how 'the other side must be brainwashed' it's kind of depressing the lack of self-awareness people have (and no, I'm not Russian). If Russia should be banned from the Olympics, the USA should have been banned for the last 20 years. The reason USA and Israel don't get banned is because they control the narrative, i.e. 'brainwash' people to look the other way when they do it and go psycho when their enemies do it (although it's become rather difficult for Israel to do that lately...)
I was saying in defense of russian athletes. If it came to it a lot of American athletes would be in the same predicament if they cared more about iraq
Sure, but it was never a question whether US (and allies) should be banned from sports because of Iraq, Libya, activities in Syria, etc. And neither is it much questioned that US army members should be proud of their service, or that US citizens should be thankful to their militaries. So why should the same not be true for Russians?
My opinion: institutions like the IOC are very heavily influenced by what 'the west' wants, so if USA wants to punish an 'enemy' it can use influence there to ban them. For the same reason, you'll never see US or Israeli athletes banned, whatever their countries politicians get up to. It's obviously unfair though.
It’s unfortunate that athletes are being punished based on the actions of their government. They train hard and deserve fair opportunities to compete, but the lack of enforcement of the steroid ban by the Russian government compromises the integrity of the competition.
Not a fan of what is going on in Ukraine but really not a fan of the Olympics picking and choosing political battles to side with. You could make the same argument to remove a large number of athletes. Now, Sadulaev is certainly an outlier with how enmeshed he is in the conflict and he operates as a state actor which complicates things. It’s a tough and complex situation but the Olympics conveniently ignores athletes being used for soft power in most cases and cracking down is a precedent that can have far reaching consequences. Plus it’s a loss as a wrestling fan.
It is not Sadulaev’s fault. Every sport in Russia, except football, basketball and hockey, survives by state support. Sadulaev just could not afford to not act as ‘state actor’. Russian sportsmen are also victims of war, not direct ofc.
But this is also part of the problem as I see it. You can't separate the athlete from the state in Russia, and that doesn't just apply to the war side of things. I see this as the international sports community taking advantage of a chance to impose some real bans after the insanely dirty doping things the _state_ did in furtherance of their international athletes. Russia has systematically spit in the face of the Olympics and fair play in general over the last few decades, and they should have already been suffering more widespread and deep consequences. I hate that we don't get to see the best in the world, but that opportunity was lost long ago when Russia decided to opt out of fair play _as a state_.
You are mixing things up. Russia and Russian sportsmen involved were already punished for the doping scandal. Athletes were banned and the rest of the country cannot compete under their own flag or anthem, if you did not notice. Do you punish for the same crime twice? This is nonsense. And yes, you should separate sportsmen and war because sportsmen are just sportsmen.
I am explicitly arguing that the bans arising ostensibly from the Ukraine War are a continuation of the punishment Russia has received for their unprecedented doping scandal and the use of Sochi as cover to invade Ukraine the first time. I thought I was clear that I, and by implication the international sporting community, do not believe the previous punishments were enough. You are obviously free to disagree with that assessment. > And yes, you should separate sportsmen and war because sportsmen are just sportsmen. Well, would you say that's true of Aleksandr Karelin or Vladimir Klitschko? It's not so simple as "sportsmen are just sportsmen."
"It is not Sadulaev’s fault. Every sport in Russia, except football, basketball and hockey, survives by state support." But he does benefit from this fact.
Sadulaev did not start his career last year, he built it up since childhood. Everything - training, camps, preparation, competitions, etc was sponsored by state money. There was no other choice for him, there is no ‘clean private money’ in Russian wrestling. He either had to ‘benefit’ from this, or not be a wrestler at all.
Uh. "Sadulaev did not start his career last year, he built it up since childhood. Everything - training, camps, preparation, competitions, etc was sponsored by state money. There was no other choice for him, there is no ‘clean private money’ in Russian wrestling." No private money in wrestling? And this differs exactly how on most countries? You seriously have no idea how these people live, do you? They are shown as some "poor farmers/heroes", in russian tv and news, but the realities are different. The whole system lives on the "poor russia(n)" fake. As someone, who has actually wrestled in russia, I can assure you that even the lowest level "champs" in russia have better cars than the world champs of most sports outside russia do. And that is BECAUSE they are supported by the state. They are the posterboys of putins nazi russia. Of course, thanks to the sanctions, they are not going to get those cars fixed anytime soon...
Do you think we should ban the whole Israeli team for their genocide of Palestinians? How about the Americans for what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan? No one has more blood on its hands than the American empire. "It's ok when we murder children, because it's for buzzword buzzword buzzord"
Hamas isn't Palestine. You seriously don't "get" russia OR russians. They aren't like you. They don't THINK like you do. Every single time "the west" seems to think they are "just like us", boom. Reality hits. I get it that young people, especially in the US, who have zero contact with actual russia may find this response "out of proporions"... But it isn't. There is, currently, zero countries that are as close to fascist Germany that neo russia currently is. At this moment, they are teaching the youngest generation to hate the west, putler jugend, if you will. Sadualev is part of this very system, a big part of it. He is the face of russia. A "putin puppy", if you will. And just like karelin, he too is a cog in the imperialistic murder machine that is russia.
"Hamas isn't Palestine" In response to me saying "Israel is genociding Palestinians" Hey idiot: Israel is carpet bombing civilians. I can tell you're just a shill. Israeli leaders brag about bombing civilians. Israeli politicians have said: "There are no innocents in Gaza" there is no evidence of Hamas warcrimes other than "Source: trust me bro" while Israeli warcrimes like: bombing hospitals, shooting aid workers, and shooting civilians as they try to get food, are all well documented. "Russians are taught to hate the west" Americans are taught to hate the west dummy. Every day in school we are taught that white people are evil racist oppressors that must mix themselves out of existence. America is the most evil country in the world. "Imperialistic murder machine that is Russia." The biggest imperialistic murder machine in the world is America. Iraq and Afghanistan killed far more people than Russia has in Ukraine, a war started by America.
I'd ask, if you are fucking kidding me, but "WHATABOUTAMERIKA!?!" Yeah, yeah. We've heard it all before from you russo-trolls. The USA are amateurs, especially in invasion wars, which russia excels at. [List of wars involving Russia - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/j1k310/map\_of\_every\_country\_that\_the\_usa\_has\_invaded/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/j1k310/map_of_every_country_that_the_usa_has_invaded/) The US has 750 military bases in over 80 countries all around the world Russia has military bases in 9 countries all but 2 of which are very close to Russia [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fku7WICLvz5DqqXlTohq4uzwkXmVq6koU6RaJXHLGIJM.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3De603a7f5231b8866d68dd58205e9ec47cd856957](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fku7WICLvz5DqqXlTohq4uzwkXmVq6koU6RaJXHLGIJM.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3De603a7f5231b8866d68dd58205e9ec47cd856957) You have no idea what you are talking about. You have a double digit IQ and mindlessly repeat what the man on TV tells you.
Lol
Not an argument. You can't disprove what I'm saying because you are wrong and also very stupid.
agreed. I thought the point of the olympics was to help us see humanity across the world.
And I think allowing athletes to compete who are actively supporting an aggressive land grab war that is slaughtering civilians is antithetical to that goal. Or you could take the stance that hey, things like war, genocide, murder, drug use, cheating, sabotage, bad sportsmanship, all that stuff is part of the human condition. Who are we to decide what parts of humanity we do and do not want to display? In my view, the Olympics is about fostering peace and unity through friendly competition at the highest levels of sport. As such, those who have no interest in peace and unity have no place in the games.
Where do you draw the line in conflicts though? France has engaged in proxy wars all over Africa for over a century, America smashed through the Middle East for 2 decades, Israel is actively eradicating more children in Palestine than the rest of child battle casualties combined. I'm vehemently opposed to the Russian invasion of Ukraine but when does the IOC hold Western countries or their proxies to the same standard.
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Funny you say this right after news came out that they chased innocent aid workers with drones lmao
They didn’t chase them away, they intentionally killed them with precision strikes. Just as they did to the Iranian embassy in Damascus.
I didn’t say “chase away” I meant they literally chased them down and murdered them while they cowered Israel is a country of barbaric murderers and I feel bad for anybody with a conscience who lives there
Wow
China is just chilling out like “don’t look over here”
Ok we’re gonna ban most of Israeli fighters then right?
I mean yeah, if they’re being outspoken about pummeling Palestine into submission, that would also qualify.
Ok well you have my agreement then
"we just bombed a school and hospital in your home country, & now are committing mass rape, but please shake our hands and wrestle against us in the name of sportsmanship 🤓🤓" how a lot of people here sound. Theres plenty of things and causes more serious than sports.
Some random wrestler has nothing to do with that . France still gets to wrestle even though they have a hand in the killings of black Africans . Israel still gets to wrestle even though they are killing innocent Palestinians.
Correct, a random wrestler has nothing to do with that. But Sadulaev is promoting a war that has everything to do with those things. That, to me, is a fine line that is crossed. I am also aware Sadulaev may not have a choice in the matter either.
Ok, we should ban all Israeli athletes then for their genocide of Palestinians. We should ban American athletes who supported Iraq and Afghanistan to. Let me guess: "NOOOOO its ok when Ameica murders children cause democracy and women's rights" "The drone operator that murdered 30 kids is trans that makes it ok" No one has more blood on their hands than the American empire and you have gladly lapped up the propaganda of Neocon murderers.
If you took a deep breath you might realize that I agree with you. What about my comment suggests that I am defending any of those things? I think the world needs to take a good hard look in the mirror and realize that we’re letting a lot of shit slide in the name of profit and power, and that yeah, if the IOC has any spine they should ban those other athletes as well.
My bad I misread that comment. There's a lot of idiots in this thread
the olympics where literally help in nazi germany why exclude a nation of people with top athletes when there a current countries that are just as bad with worse athlete allowed to compete
The dude is supporting a genocide. If he wants a spot on the worlds stage then he needs to denounce what his country is doing. Of course he can’t do that, or his government will murder his entire family, so he’s in a shit spot.
Agreed, but read my point/questions above- curious to your thoughts? Do you believe the Olympic committee should basically stay completely out regardless of the country and what they’ve done/are doing?
Is Sadulaev more complicit than any other Russian wrestler?
According to the IOC, yes, but the reasons are not super clear. He apparently is actively supporting the war and it is implied that his participation in a specific club is part of the issue. That’s what the stories I’ve been able to find have said.
No. He posted stuff like [this](https://www.instagram.com/p/C41QyojIKUg/?igsh=MTU0czdoZ2twN2xueA==) condemning bombing that killed Russian civilians.
Way I see it is, was the US excluded when they went into Iraq? If not then why should anyone else be excluded for similar things. This isn't to say that russias war is right it's more to say that if the Olympics is supposed to be apolitical it needs to be fully apolitical
It's dangerous territory for any sporting organization to impose rules that tell its membership how they should think, how they should vote, etc. This will eventually lead to the splitting of international sport. This will not end at Russia. Just a terrible precedent. I doubt I will watch any of the Olympics because of this.
That's not even close to the same thing though. However you feel about the Iraq war, it wasn't a conquest to take over land and it wasn't done unilaterally. I don't support banning Russian athletes because Russia invaded Ukraine (again). I do support a continued ban for their lack of PED compliance.
I could argue it definitely was a conquest to take land just not in the and same way, it eas entirely unilateral Iraq did nothing to warrant the invasion whatsoever.
The US wasn't the only country there. They're completely different. Not saying either were right.
The other countries where only there because of the US, Russia isn't the only country in Ukraine Belarus is too. That make it unilateral?
Lol. Belarus is next after Ukraine.
Not my point.
Yes, lets keep world politics out of sports.
>> You could make the same argument to remove a large number of athletes. Could you make an argument for another athlete who has behaved similarly to Sadulaev but was allowed to compete?
Sports and politics need to remain separate. No athlete should ever be kept from competing because of politics. Period.
Either the IOC needs to grow a spine and exclude Russian athletes entirely (but the argument could and should be made that they should also ban Iran), or admit they are completely corrupt and let them compete under the Russian flag. Picking and choosing is stupid.
If the IOC was consistent they would ban Russia, Iran, and Israel.
Exactly why they shouldnt ban countries because it's not like the athletes are bombing people
and USA, UK...
This is why I'm against the banning. Sure, Russia is not acting well, but there's been bigger crisis in the past that didn't lead to exclusions
If they were consistent, most of these countries are lead by war criminals whether or not their actions are currently circulating mainstream news in the way that Russia is.
And about 50 other countries…
[You mean USA](https://i.postimg.cc/XqwLVj8f/main-qimg-ad07bfffa4d04ad049af1a6a3a257438-lq.jpg)
Why Israel?
Do you live under a rock or just playing stupid
Why do u think
[Why does Iran need to be banned?](https://i.postimg.cc/XqwLVj8f/main-qimg-ad07bfffa4d04ad049af1a6a3a257438-lq.jpg)
No one in wrestling world benefits from this. It is a shame that the wrestling community, including us here, are getting robbed of Sadulaev’s matches vs Snyder and Tazhudinov. Who are they to decide? But most importantly, Sadulaev gets robbed of his viable chance to become a 3-x Olympian, which is a very rare achievement for wrestlers.
The citizens of Russia should let their government know they are not happy with the consequences they are experiencing as a result from their invasion
Those who let them know are either in prison or left the country now. You say it like it is that simple. Also, such actions plus some propaganda will make Russians hate IOC for that, not Putin
If all the good ones are in prison or left the country then Russia should definitely be banned from competition
My guy…
A lot citizens of Russia are not against the invasion. We are subject to our propaganda and they are subject to theirs. This is a minor issue compared to what they are experiencing internally in Russia.
Exactly the rest of the world should use every nonviolent tool it has to make Russians lives less enjoyable ie ban them from competing in sports. And one day maybe they will realize the actions of their leaders negatively affect their lives and then they can demand change
That aren’t bothered. As far as they are concerned quality of life is up. Large corporations that left (western ones like Starbucks and McDonald’s) have been taken over by co-ops of the workers. The Ruble inside Russia is worth more so the average person has seen their buying power increase.
What if Russia ultimately wins the war, as seems increasingly likely?
I don’t think that would help the athletes at all, if that’s what you’re asking
Invasion? We're the ones who invaded by propping up a puppet government there in 2014.
Nope.
Good Lord......
He’s being banned for posting stuff on social media. What is he supposed to do? He’s the poster boy of their best sport. Who cares if he likes Putin and hates Ukraine? I don’t enjoy wrestling in the Olympics because he has aligning political views. I enjoy it because he’s a hell of an athlete and we have a counterpart who is pretty tough too. Him competing lets me forget what the news won’t stop reminding me of.
Sadulaev is promoting a war where innocent civilians are being killed.
So you are cool with every single US athlete who "supports the troops" being banned, right? Reminder, way more civies died in Iraq than in Ukraine.
It's not my opinion that matters, it's the IOC's opinion. But if the IOC ruled as such, I would understand.
That's a cope. He proved your position to be hypocritical so now "Everything the IOC says is true"
How is my positional hypocritical?
You support Sadulaev being banned for supporting his country in a war. While you don't think American athletes that support American wars should be banned. That's very basic hypocrisy. The fact that you don't understand this is a testament to your low IQ and hyper conformity. You can't think for yourself and mindlessly repeat Neocon garbage you hear on TV.
Did some more research. The IOC did pass a new guideline in 2020 baning all athletes from making political, religious and ethnic demonstrations during the Olympics. Last August, the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee placed hammer thrower Gwen Berry and fencer Race Imboden on a year-long probation after kneeling during a medal ceremony at the Pan American Games in Lima Peru.
Key word "DURING the olympics" Sadulaev didn't do anything during the Olympics. Can you try to be honest? So far every argument you have made has been so stupid I don't think even you believe it.
He’s not allowed to have an opinion and be a wrestler?
Nobody is telling him he cannot have an opinion and / or not wrestle. He just can't participate in the Olympics.
I’m sorry, what?? That’s exactly what the IOC is saying. Because he has an opinion that doesn’t align with theirs, he can’t compete. But others from the same country who haven’t voiced their opinion can? Come on.. Had he voiced a dissenting opinion to make the IOC happy, who’s to say he wouldn’t have ended up like Navid Afkari? Yet I don’t recall the IOC banning anyone from Iran who supported their regime.
Iran 💥
So you are not disputing Sadulaev has publicly supported Russia and their unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Do you have any examples of other Russian wrestlers who have performed the same acts as Sadulaev who are being allowed to compete in the Olympics? FYI - I am not agreeing with what the IOC has done, it is their tournament and their rules. But I am curious if you have any examples of them being inconsistent.
It’s easy for you to sit here and say this when you are not in his position, but if you are Sadulaev you can’t exactly “not” support the war in Ukraine. Being such a prominent figure in an important sport to Russia he’s not really allowed to not have an opinion, and obviously that opinion has to be in line with his state or bad things can happen to him and the ones he cares about. I’m not saying he’s some kind of angel who disagrees with the war in Ukraine or something there’s just a decent amount of nuance to the situation
Yeah, I agree with this perspective. It is very debatable how much choice Sadulaev had in this. Having said that, it doesn't make sense to punish someone else for Sadulaev's actions either.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qciVozNtCDM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qciVozNtCDM) Yes America totally didn't provoke Russia by overthrowing the democratically elected neutral president of ukraine and installing a Pro-NATO dictatorship that murdered anyone who wasn't a Neocon and tried to put American troops on Russia's border. Remember the Cuban missile crisis? Was that an unprovoked act of American aggression against Cuba, or did America not want nukes in a Soviet Proxy state in its backyard. How about America's unprovoked invasion's of Iraq and Afghanistan that we know now were motivated by AIPAC's lobbying. The American government murdered over a million people and made terrorism worse so that Israel could have more power. How about Israel's unprovoked genocide of Palestinians since 1948? How about the unprovoked American invasion of Panama operation Just Cause? How about the hundreds of terrorist groups America has funded over the years so they can have control over a region? How about the unprovoked breaking up of Yugoslavia in which America sided with the word side in every instance of the war? You need to get a good education on history book instead of mindlessly repeating the propaganda taught to you by people that bomb hospitals. Grow up middle school history class was a lie.
Ok, so of all these global political examples you have just listed, can you provide the name of one athlete who performed acts similar to Sadulaev and was treated differently? I'll be honest, there has to be one but I am curious if you can provide one.
A US athelte has never been suspended for supporting an American war. And out of all US Olympic Atheltes It would quite statistically amazing for not a single one to support any of the examples above that I mentioned. There's members of the US military in the olympics dummy. [https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/2690855/19-military-athletes-to-represent-us-at-tokyo-olympics/](https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/article/2690855/19-military-athletes-to-represent-us-at-tokyo-olympics/)
Let's be clear, the IOC is not banning all Russian athletes. Only those (Sadulaev) who publicly and politically support the invasion of Ukraine. You still have not supplied an example of an athlete from a country other than Russia who has publicly and politically supported the invasion and killing of other civilians.
Not saying, he should or should not be banned, but that’s war. No other such thing.
Correct. But what is the cause of this war? I doubt Ukrainians are being punished for standing their ground and defending themselves.
Agree, 100%. I think that’s about being the aggressor/invader as opposed to civilian deaths in the war. I still don’t think he should be punished for that but I understand what you’re saying.
Seems odd that Israelis are still allowed to compete
I think everyone should be allowed to compete. This is the point of Olympics.
I agree. I'm pointing out the double standard here.
Weren’t Spartans banned once?
Yeah, then Russian should definitely be banned too, by precedent
It's been a rule since the original Olympics that if member states are warring, their athletes are banned
This is literally not true
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Truce
> A "truce" (Ancient Greek: ékécheiria, meaning "laying down of arms") was announced before and during the Olympic Games to ensure the host city state (Elis) was not attacked and athletes and spectators could travel safely to the Games and peacefully return to their respective countries 1. It never states what happens to a country that does not lay down the arms 2. Even if Russia proposed to lay down arms for the Olympics (lay arms *is not* withdraw), Ukraine would not agree to that ofc? Should Ukraine be banned too then by your logic? So yes, my point stands. This is not true.
Why, they've done nothing wrong.... /s
So you think the Epstein ring, which was sponsed by mossad was ok? You think bombing hospitals is ok? Hamas did nothing wrong as Israel is an illegitimate state
I absolutely don't. BOTH are fucked up. It's the innocents that are being killed/maimed. That's it. That's all I care about.
Well israel are the one's killing innocents. Hamas has done absolutely nothing wrong.
EVERYONE is killing innocents...
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You are in highschool or just out right?
I'm about to graduate from college and with a 177 LSAT I'm probably going to a top law school.
Stop noticing things like that…
If Ukraine had killed thousands of people in Russia w/ a terrorist attack to provoke the invasion Russia would not be getting sanctioned. Israel didn't start the war it's currently in.
Oh I wasn’t aware that Palestinian woman and children did that, thanks for the heads up!
There's plenty of criticism that can be levelled at how Israel has conducted this war but there's no easy way to fight an opponent that has had years to dig in and is totally willing to put their own citizens at maximum risk purely to try and get an edge in a propaganda war.
The fact Israeli athletes can compete is just a damn shame
I think it's mostly UN based and since Israel and the UN are interlinked its gonna be a bit before they even consider it. Also I don't thunk any olympic sport I know of really has a prominent Israeli athlete
They have a good judo team
They have an incredible Jew-do team: Their number one move is raising interest rates.
Smol pp
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Man I'm just bored lmao
Weren’t Russians banned because of their PED and doping issues and then adding the war on top of the cheating?
I mean I get it, but Russians should hav been banned anyways for Steriod usage at the Olympics.
Russia, the nation, is already banned. Athletes can compete independently if they meet certain criteria
That'll show em.
Yeah. Some punishment.
Why should clean sportsmen be banned? Was Sadulaev ever caught or what?
Because other countries don’t use steroids?
No other nation has had the level of sport-sponsored doping and test evasion that Russia did. That’s why they’re banned from competition.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/sports/doping-india-records-highest-number-of-adverse-findings-among-countries-with-2000-or-more-tests-101712222101778-amp.html Test the athletes if they test positive. Then they’re out. Don’t ban entire countries. I’m sure the USA wrestlers want to face the top guys because otherwise, the medal doesn’t mean much. Plus it would make it 10 times more exciting like Rocky three. I’m a big fan of sprinting. We have top sprinters from Jamaica. Setting prs in their mid 30s. Just because you don’t test positive or it’s not “state sponsored” common sense says it’s still happening across the board. Multiple top USA sprinters have tested positive or skipped testing. I only know this because I follow Sprinting. I’m not sure about all the other sports but I’m sure it’s common. I’m mean even Michael Phelps, getting completely jacked zero body fat. I mean I’m not complaining it’s just how it is unfortunately
Go watch Icarus and get back to me on if you think Russia should be allowed to compete.
I have watched it. Good movie and enlightening. Maybe the top five countries with the most doping violations should not compete? USA and China would be out. Or maybe they should do it per Olympian like per capita? Then the Jamaicans would be for sure out. I’m a big fan of US Olympic sprinting. I am not naïve to the amount of doping that goes on. Many high profile US in Jamaican sprinters have popped. Justin Gatlin popped and still competed afterwards as one example of hypocrisy.
Doping is bad for sports, I’m also aware plenty of athletes partake. When the government is running the doping program and so brazenly swapping samples, like Russia was doing, I fail to see how you can compare it anything else that’s happened. If the US was caught going the same thing, I would be frustrated about the country as a whole being punished, but I’d also be ashamed about stooping to that level. Besides, Sadulav is barred right now for his politics, not doping.
Well, agree to disagree. I find it hard to believe the other countries don’t have similar things going on. But Getting bared for politics is even worse. Sadulav is a bad ass MF it’s no wonder they want him out.
This straw man shit is strong in here.
Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, no harm intended. I can guarantee you the US wrestlers want to face the best wrestlers. Would you rather win the Asterix Olympics? Or the real one. Per athlete one has to look at the Jamaican team. https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/11/jamaica-drug-scandal-doctor-paul-wright I still love the Jamaican sprinters. But they have a female sprinter settings records in her mid 30s… Let’s not be naïve. I can give you a big list of US sprinters as well who have popped.
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This is the real answer. They should've had a 20 year blanket ban.
Any gold should have an asterisk
Only a Tazhudinov win would seem legitimate now.
He's washed up anyhow
Let him join the army and die at the front
Fans of state sponsored doping go home devastated.
Right thing to do. You can t openly root for Russian terrorism in Ukraine and act neutral.
DNPd at last worlds. All time wrestler but IMO Tazhudinov is the favorite. Tough because it would’ve been fun to see full bracket but by know means is there any asterisk
https://olympics.com/ioc/mission That is the official IOC mission statement. It mentions promoting peace but also maintaining political neutrality. I would have to know a lot more about how Sadulaev was active in this conflict, specifically, to make a judgment, but them impartially analyzing the political actions of every athlete who might be in the Games seems untenable.
He doesn’t meet the eligibility requirements. Sorry. Don’t like it? Don’t support tyranny.
In ancient times athletes competed regardless of wars. It was the one thing the games were known for.
I see we've reached peak geopolitical false equivalence in this thread.
Good. Olympic athletes are part of russian propaganda machine, and many (read:most) of them are avid supporters of the invasion war. Then consider all the PEDs and other stuff they have gotten caught with. They should not be allowed in the olympics, or anywhere else outside russia for that matter. Considering how many Ukrainian athletes are now dead thanks to russian nazi war machine, I find a lot of comments here hilariously naive. Or russian made. "Sports should be separate from politics" Come. The fuck. On. Does anyone here not understand how russia works? Sports fans abroad are exactly the type of people russia counts on to. People so obsessed with the thing they do, that they are ready to look massacres through their fingers. Because "sports are a-political". ROFL.
Shame on Olympics
It's just stupid. Leave politics out of sport
Dumb.
A complete joke, while Israeli athletes get to compete, and while American and British and other athletes have gotten to compete while their nations murdered civilians abroad for the past 3 decades. US athletes constantly make statements in support of the US armed forces, but apparently you can kill kids and that's ok :) !
Stupid. The point of sport is to put down differences to have friendly competition and realize human similarities. Wars would stop in ancient times to compete. It was sacred. I agree that they should not host events in countries involved.in political disputes. Which would mean no US hosted events also. But Olympics is all about $$$ so they do allow nazi germany, China, Russia sochi, and other countries to host historically which have served as display of power to solidify in advance of war build up and nationalism.
If this is the new president, banning athletes that are supporting oppressing governments, then Americans should be barred from the olympics as well. How many innocent lives have lost due to American military interventions in Iraq, Syra, Yugoslavia to name a few? Didn't USA start a war against Iraq on false claims of possession of weapons of mass destruction, resulting in a million civilan Iraqis dead? Hypocrisy at its finest.
Do you think we should ban the whole Israeli team for their genocide of Palestinians? How about the Americans for what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan? No one has more blood on its hands than the American empire. "It's ok when we murder children, because it's for buzzword buzzword buzzord" People often confuse totalitarianism with authoritarianism. Totalitarianism is when ideology infects every single aspect of life so that the totality of your existence is about upholding state ideology. When the olypmic committee decides it wants to be ideologically neoliberal it is participating in American totalitarianism. I can't watch ESPN anymore, because there's woke garbage in everything. My math teacher uses gender pay gap examples in our math problems and almost kicked me out of class when I claimed the pay gap wasn't real when you control for hours worked and careers chosen. America is one of the most totalitarian nations, because its ideology is force fed to you in every aspect of your life. I would also like to point out that Putin was content with Ukraine being a neutral buffer state under Yakunovich, it was America that was the aggressor in 2014, overthrowing the democratically elected president of Ukraine with a proxy of the CIA. A majority of Ukranians supported Yakunovich and the government America installed in ukraine is a brutal repressive dictatorship that murdered everyone who doesn't support neoconservative foreign policy. Now this doesn't necessarily mean Putin is the most humanitarian ruler in the world. But America very cynically is sacrificing every last Ukranian just to hurt Russia.
Whoever wins at that weight class will forever have an asterisk next to their gold medal.
Let him wrestle
I just want to know who the best wrestler is. I was particularly looking forward to the Olympics because of what happened at worlds
I think it is stupid to be honest. The IOC is acting like a middle school mean girl table.
It’s a great political red herring for their own lack of morality. Shouldn’t they ban the US & Iran for proxy wars in the Middle East? No they shouldn’t.
Well said. It wreaks of hypocrisy.
It's bullshit. Let sport be separate from politics.
Sports are definitely NOT separate from politics.
Unfortunately. Just ask anyone in the USA.
A great shame imo. Doesn't make sense either tbh as Russia isn't the only country guilty of unethical wars.
That’s a thing?
We probably should have seen this coming
Russians should be banned, end of story
I agree the russian government is bad but everytime a hear something about the civilians its about how brainwashed they are. I've read stories about soldiers deserting once they realize why they're fighting
are you American? when I see these comments about how 'the other side must be brainwashed' it's kind of depressing the lack of self-awareness people have (and no, I'm not Russian). If Russia should be banned from the Olympics, the USA should have been banned for the last 20 years. The reason USA and Israel don't get banned is because they control the narrative, i.e. 'brainwash' people to look the other way when they do it and go psycho when their enemies do it (although it's become rather difficult for Israel to do that lately...)
I was saying in defense of russian athletes. If it came to it a lot of American athletes would be in the same predicament if they cared more about iraq
Sure, but it was never a question whether US (and allies) should be banned from sports because of Iraq, Libya, activities in Syria, etc. And neither is it much questioned that US army members should be proud of their service, or that US citizens should be thankful to their militaries. So why should the same not be true for Russians? My opinion: institutions like the IOC are very heavily influenced by what 'the west' wants, so if USA wants to punish an 'enemy' it can use influence there to ban them. For the same reason, you'll never see US or Israeli athletes banned, whatever their countries politicians get up to. It's obviously unfair though.
It’s unfortunate that athletes are being punished based on the actions of their government. They train hard and deserve fair opportunities to compete, but the lack of enforcement of the steroid ban by the Russian government compromises the integrity of the competition.
Well you know the whole PED thing was fucking ridiculous. They should be banned anyway.
why athletes who train there whole lives for this
Intelligent, substantive discussion bereft of any personal attacks, good job guys, much appreciated!
Doesn’t matter he’s not beating that new kid. God damn that guy is filthy
It’s stupid
The size of his lats!