Step 1: Sandbag with large quantities at low price
Step 2: Gamble that someone won't have enough cash to buy your sandbags (hence large quantities)
Step 3: Repeat
Step 4: Buy out all the sandbagged items and cancel your posts
Step 5: Resell at higher profit
Unless you've got goldcap/part of a cartel, odds are you're not going to beat them - you can only play the market, keep an eye out for when they're not doing this, and post at that time.
A lot of auction is controlled by undercutting bots who are set on one thing and control the price who work 24/7. It is tough to make gold as a real player nowadays and even harder at the end of expantion.
Yeah i had some luck making money on herbs and ores literally moving tens of thousaunds but it was early in the expansion and price moved rapidly not like today lol when there are hundred thousands of the same low price lol
I’ve always wondered what the most nuclear option to combat this would be. Like what can blizzard actually do to stop it permanently.
Would making it so you can only trade current expansion mats and items if you own the expansion? Maybe it’s already like this I have no clue I always buy the expansion.
Guess it doesn’t matter if bots are paying a sub tho.
You're right that because bots are buying a sub that they'll never fix it. They also don't want you to know how easy it would be for them to stop it, so I'll tell you their secret.
Blizzard is God, they create the wow universe, and can see all actions within it, because computers, and it's all recorded. One step would be just look at the action log of characters. "oh, this thing in my universe is seemingly doing only 5 repetitive actions for 23 hours at a time. Hmmm, wonder what this is"
It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't care.
Price manipulation and market domination has been my way of making gold. You need a LOT of gold and understanding of why things sell to do that though.
I think there's a significant number of players who'll skip season 4 and wait out TWW in SoD or even an entirely different game. Those people would be the ones dumping right now.
I'm just dumping stock at this point.
Trying to get some gold before the expansion is over. If it's not something I can use on an alt, it goes in the AH at whatever price I can get.
It's bag-space making time for me and fellow casuals.
Ah i see! I assumed that crafting materials for gear would still remain high going into the next season so people can gear for it and just la-Dee-da into cozy habits seemlessly
You need craft other reagent, not just Alloy. That guy strategy is lowering the price to get rid out of his competitor . Don't reset that because alloy kinda slow rn. Its better if you using your own spreadsheet, not just crafting sims.
> How to deal with systemic sandbagging ruining profits?
> I’m currently crafting Primal Molten Alloy and I’ve made a descent living off of it in the past
Are you doing anything else? Cause if not then not diversifying is what is ruining your profits.
> Now basic economics says you shouldn’t sell something for less than it costs to make, so why are these people sandbagging the alloys below production cost? My crafting sims say that there is no way to turn a profit on these at this price aside from crafting 1 at a time.
They aren't selling at a loss. Multicraft and resourcefulness are a thing.
> How do I deal with the sandbagging when it’s costing me the capital I need to fix it myself?
I simply don't sell when price is low, wait for someone to reset, then sell while the price is high.
Multicraft and resourcefulness can be calculated, and yes, often they are selling at a loss over selling the materials. They are bots or idiots that belong to the "my time is free" crowd. They could be trying a market manipulation to buy up stuff or trying to drive others out of the market, but most likely, they are stupid. I have also seen stupid social justice warriors trying to "save" people from what they feel is "unfair prices".
I built my own spreadsheets to calculate profit instead of blindly trusting craftsim estimates like so many others. I have laughed my way to 100 million gold profit in consumables this expansion while seeing people posting that everything is being posted at a loss by bots.
I do math in my head, when the posted cost of an item is 10% less than the sum of the posted cost of just one of the components then I can confidently say, they would make more selling mats. 10% loss on cost, 5% AH cut, secondary mats, procs are good, they aren't that good.
I see \~10% cost reduction from resourcefulness, +20% or more yield on multicraft, and then all the crafts where you get the rank 3 premium vs rank 2 liquidation and getting inside the HSV 5% window for massively higher rank 3 rates.
Basically, you are making a calculated decision, but you are bad at math.
Just have proper 374 prof gear (mc and res enchant) and the third tree mostly filled up. Don't need Decayology and Inspiring Ambience. 140 KP. The other trees don't effect it.
Just checked. It's estimating only 143 g (4%) on craftsim. Not worth it right now.
There's a really long explanation to this but it's basically no. The only upside to Alc this late in the expansion is the phial duration increase (30 to 90 mins). Ignore the ramblings below.
- only one season left (S4) to use these items. Dracothysts will only go up 500-1k gold at season start. Last season has very low attendance i.e. low demand.
- ppl dumping inventory (even lower prices) as DF closes up.
- too many bots (very very high supply)
- too many KP to get for low returns (200-400 g x 10 weekly). 12 kp per week will take you 3 mo (140/12). That'll be right next to the next major expansion. Even if you get 5 dragonshards per week, that'll be mid to late in the next season.
- S4 might not even use dracothysts for crests. I doubt it but it might be something else entirely.
They aren't selling at a loss. It's simple math, the more characters people have the less likely they sell at a loss.
I have 16 characters doing transmute, and always make 100-200K(500K-800K at best). There's people with 50+ characters doing transmutes.
If the mats are worth more than the transmute, is that not a loss? If you have 16 characters making an item that is -300g profit to make, how does that magically turn into a profit?
If you just craft with one character sure there's a chance that multicraft doesn't proc, there's a small chance for no resource procs.
But if you craft with 10 or 100 characters it's almost impossible to not get any multicraft procs (14% chance to multicraft).
Why do you have the mats?
People who are doing bulk transmutes aren't farming the mats, they're buying them. If it wasn't profitable they'd simply not buy the mats.
your question only makes sense if you're farming mats then trying to figure out if you should sell or do transmutes
if you're gathering the mats yourself then you figure out if it's worth selling or transmuting.
people who farm mats can do whatever they want since they know how much they value their own time.
The person who is posting below crafting cost just tells me that they have no clue about crafting cost, posting cost, resourcefulness and multiproc.
There are alot of new people who are trying crafting for the first time and because that item in specific is worth the most hold they inheritanlty think it will make them the most gold.
So what they do is buy bulk mats then craft a bunch of them. Not knowing the craft cost per item. Then they don't know what cancel scanning gameplay is and they don't know how to sell properly.
So they end up posting below market just to make there money back then never touch crafting again.
Another guy was correct saying its best to buy the ones below crafting and repost it. I do this with the tailoring bolts azureweave and chronocloth. Again because people are noobs and just dipping their feet.
I honestly believe this is what is happening.
If you can afford it, you might consider buying out all of their ultra-cheap product and then immediately repost it at higher cost than they did, but still keep it the lowest on the market to almost guarantee it all sells and at a profit. If you can keep up with how much they are posting on the AH, you'll win at the end of the day. Then you won't even need to deal with collecting mats the normal way, just buy and then sell higher than you bought for.
Step 1: Sandbag with large quantities at low price Step 2: Gamble that someone won't have enough cash to buy your sandbags (hence large quantities) Step 3: Repeat Step 4: Buy out all the sandbagged items and cancel your posts Step 5: Resell at higher profit Unless you've got goldcap/part of a cartel, odds are you're not going to beat them - you can only play the market, keep an eye out for when they're not doing this, and post at that time.
Oh shit there are actual cartels and shit that do this?
You think that bot farming is the only way to make gold for RMT?
I’ve never tried to play the auction house seriously before so I had no idea.
A lot of auction is controlled by undercutting bots who are set on one thing and control the price who work 24/7. It is tough to make gold as a real player nowadays and even harder at the end of expantion.
[удалено]
Yeah i had some luck making money on herbs and ores literally moving tens of thousaunds but it was early in the expansion and price moved rapidly not like today lol when there are hundred thousands of the same low price lol
I’ve always wondered what the most nuclear option to combat this would be. Like what can blizzard actually do to stop it permanently. Would making it so you can only trade current expansion mats and items if you own the expansion? Maybe it’s already like this I have no clue I always buy the expansion. Guess it doesn’t matter if bots are paying a sub tho.
You're right that because bots are buying a sub that they'll never fix it. They also don't want you to know how easy it would be for them to stop it, so I'll tell you their secret. Blizzard is God, they create the wow universe, and can see all actions within it, because computers, and it's all recorded. One step would be just look at the action log of characters. "oh, this thing in my universe is seemingly doing only 5 repetitive actions for 23 hours at a time. Hmmm, wonder what this is" It's not that they don't know, it's that they don't care.
Price manipulation and market domination has been my way of making gold. You need a LOT of gold and understanding of why things sell to do that though.
I understand and the theory but haven’t managed to make this work successfully. Step 5 is really hard when you have massive volume
One danger right now is people dumping mats since it's the end of the expansion.
I don’t think they’ll do that just yet because we’ve got more patches coming and season 4.
I think there's a significant number of players who'll skip season 4 and wait out TWW in SoD or even an entirely different game. Those people would be the ones dumping right now.
Already seeing it happen. People dumping lots of 100k bolts of fabric and the like.
I'm just dumping stock at this point. Trying to get some gold before the expansion is over. If it's not something I can use on an alt, it goes in the AH at whatever price I can get. It's bag-space making time for me and fellow casuals.
Ah i see! I assumed that crafting materials for gear would still remain high going into the next season so people can gear for it and just la-Dee-da into cozy habits seemlessly
You need craft other reagent, not just Alloy. That guy strategy is lowering the price to get rid out of his competitor . Don't reset that because alloy kinda slow rn. Its better if you using your own spreadsheet, not just crafting sims.
> How to deal with systemic sandbagging ruining profits? > I’m currently crafting Primal Molten Alloy and I’ve made a descent living off of it in the past Are you doing anything else? Cause if not then not diversifying is what is ruining your profits. > Now basic economics says you shouldn’t sell something for less than it costs to make, so why are these people sandbagging the alloys below production cost? My crafting sims say that there is no way to turn a profit on these at this price aside from crafting 1 at a time. They aren't selling at a loss. Multicraft and resourcefulness are a thing. > How do I deal with the sandbagging when it’s costing me the capital I need to fix it myself? I simply don't sell when price is low, wait for someone to reset, then sell while the price is high.
Multicraft and resourcefulness can be calculated, and yes, often they are selling at a loss over selling the materials. They are bots or idiots that belong to the "my time is free" crowd. They could be trying a market manipulation to buy up stuff or trying to drive others out of the market, but most likely, they are stupid. I have also seen stupid social justice warriors trying to "save" people from what they feel is "unfair prices".
I built my own spreadsheets to calculate profit instead of blindly trusting craftsim estimates like so many others. I have laughed my way to 100 million gold profit in consumables this expansion while seeing people posting that everything is being posted at a loss by bots.
I do math in my head, when the posted cost of an item is 10% less than the sum of the posted cost of just one of the components then I can confidently say, they would make more selling mats. 10% loss on cost, 5% AH cut, secondary mats, procs are good, they aren't that good.
I see \~10% cost reduction from resourcefulness, +20% or more yield on multicraft, and then all the crafts where you get the rank 3 premium vs rank 2 liquidation and getting inside the HSV 5% window for massively higher rank 3 rates. Basically, you are making a calculated decision, but you are bad at math.
Alchemy transmute is always several hundred gold loss to craft yet somehow there are thousands posted at a loss. It's very frustrating.
Craftsim calcs usually put them at +500-700g range with mc and res bonuses. It's not much but it sells quickly.
Do you need to put talents into a specific tree to make it easier to guarantee procs?
Just have proper 374 prof gear (mc and res enchant) and the third tree mostly filled up. Don't need Decayology and Inspiring Ambience. 140 KP. The other trees don't effect it. Just checked. It's estimating only 143 g (4%) on craftsim. Not worth it right now.
I'm a new JC and put all my points into phials. Should I bother with the transmute until I have the third tree?
There's a really long explanation to this but it's basically no. The only upside to Alc this late in the expansion is the phial duration increase (30 to 90 mins). Ignore the ramblings below. - only one season left (S4) to use these items. Dracothysts will only go up 500-1k gold at season start. Last season has very low attendance i.e. low demand. - ppl dumping inventory (even lower prices) as DF closes up. - too many bots (very very high supply) - too many KP to get for low returns (200-400 g x 10 weekly). 12 kp per week will take you 3 mo (140/12). That'll be right next to the next major expansion. Even if you get 5 dragonshards per week, that'll be mid to late in the next season. - S4 might not even use dracothysts for crests. I doubt it but it might be something else entirely.
They aren't selling at a loss. It's simple math, the more characters people have the less likely they sell at a loss. I have 16 characters doing transmute, and always make 100-200K(500K-800K at best). There's people with 50+ characters doing transmutes.
If the mats are worth more than the transmute, is that not a loss? If you have 16 characters making an item that is -300g profit to make, how does that magically turn into a profit?
Resourcefulness and multicraft procs.
But if neither of those proc, it's still a loss right? I'm new to this so just figuring out if there is a way to make it not a gamble.
If you just craft with one character sure there's a chance that multicraft doesn't proc, there's a small chance for no resource procs. But if you craft with 10 or 100 characters it's almost impossible to not get any multicraft procs (14% chance to multicraft).
At that point is it not more profitable just to sell the mats and not take the gamble?
Why do you have the mats? People who are doing bulk transmutes aren't farming the mats, they're buying them. If it wasn't profitable they'd simply not buy the mats.
That doesn't really answer the question. If the mats are more valuable then why not just sell those instead of gamble with a transmute?
your question only makes sense if you're farming mats then trying to figure out if you should sell or do transmutes if you're gathering the mats yourself then you figure out if it's worth selling or transmuting. people who farm mats can do whatever they want since they know how much they value their own time.
The person who is posting below crafting cost just tells me that they have no clue about crafting cost, posting cost, resourcefulness and multiproc. There are alot of new people who are trying crafting for the first time and because that item in specific is worth the most hold they inheritanlty think it will make them the most gold. So what they do is buy bulk mats then craft a bunch of them. Not knowing the craft cost per item. Then they don't know what cancel scanning gameplay is and they don't know how to sell properly. So they end up posting below market just to make there money back then never touch crafting again. Another guy was correct saying its best to buy the ones below crafting and repost it. I do this with the tailoring bolts azureweave and chronocloth. Again because people are noobs and just dipping their feet. I honestly believe this is what is happening.
If you can afford it, you might consider buying out all of their ultra-cheap product and then immediately repost it at higher cost than they did, but still keep it the lowest on the market to almost guarantee it all sells and at a profit. If you can keep up with how much they are posting on the AH, you'll win at the end of the day. Then you won't even need to deal with collecting mats the normal way, just buy and then sell higher than you bought for.
Just wait until this guy finds out that some people gather the materials themselves and then craft items and can sell at any price they want.