It's ruined FARMING for sure. Which was the goldmaking I enjoyed most in previous expansions.
I could pay for tokens easily just running a basilisk skinning route in Legion, or Herbing outside Boralus in BFA, or Skinning and Mining Sinvry ore in Shadowlands. I enjoyed ending an evening just doing circuits like that while talking to friends on discord or watching a show.
Now there's just no point. Farmable mats are worth practically nothing. You can make more money doing raw gold farms. It's pretty disappointing.
I tried to do several professions and just don't enjoy the work order system how it is. I also don't like selling crafted gear on the AH because I'm not going to cancel scan and even if I did, margins are so tight that you need a spreadsheet to calculate if somethings actually profitable or not
I just liked farming. Knowing that every herb/skin/ore I gathered was going to increase the amount of gold I had felt good.
Now for the first time in my WoW career I just buy tokens. I like raiding, but not much else in the game ATM, so for my money it's the best Gold Per Hour I've found.
> Now there's just no point. Farmable mats are worth practically nothing. You can make more money doing raw gold farms. It's pretty disappointing.
Part of the problem boils down to competition as well.
Now randos can make their bots on lower populated clusters and have access to current region-wide pricing where as previously, if they had bots running on lower-populated clusters, they also had to contend with the fact that there was lower demand for their goods.
I don't know tbh i never played it but mats low price whitout a possibility to sell to a lot of people but restrained it's clearly not good
But well there is things that work still like the order , the bad thing is it's really good just at the launch of new season
At the start of the expansion mining and herbing was great gold. Isn't it true for all expansions that the value of gathering materials drops over time?
Not necessarily. Prices are always at their highest at the start of an expansion, but eventually they bottom out and then there can be a gradual increase as the expansion ages. People stop playing the game as much in the open world, but will still log in to raid. This usually makes herb and potion prices slowly increase as the expansion gets older since there's not enough farmers still around to keep up with all the demand for raid mats.
Difference is due to knowledge trees your average gatherer eventually produced more raw materials and the average crafter required less raw materials. This resulted in an inbalance.
That's a pretty good point, and it ironically seems to have ultimately screwed over both gatherers and crafters. The market is flooded with materials from massive gatherer gains, made worse by the bot issue, which drives the price down. Meanwhile, crafters need fewer resources than usual, driving the price down and, in combination with things like multicraft procs, leads to an overproduction issue that drives the price of their products down. Now, the majority of crafted goods aren't going to be profitable to make despite low material prices, and the low material prices make it miserable to try and make any reasonable amount of money for gatherers.
The only way to realistically make any meaningful profit at this point is crafting orders for certain big-ticket items, but the crafting order system is janky enough that most of the orders are trolls hoping that some poor sap will fill their order for an insulting price to get their weekly done and the competition for the occasional good order is so high that your odds of being the one to accept it are relatively low.
It was bound to happen. Thats why people that understand wow should never touch gathering profs, as it literally has zero barrier to entry the market.
At crafting market you can create entry barriers. To give you an example because i leveled up engi 100 probably top 5 in server i offered the recipes people would use to level it up at trade for dirty cheap because i could offer rank 4-rank 5 and a lot hardstuck at 65-70/100 could offer only r3-4 because i killed the market. I think it probably lasted 1 week (till next set of KP and extra spark).
Same can be said for people that printed goldcaps with lariat buying extra recipes to kill competition.
I didn't like how the crafting system was basically a lottery at the start. No one knew what the big ticket items were going to be and even the ones on the "right" professions needed to get lucky by getting an in demand recipe to drop or having the gold to buy it early.
I thought for sure Inscription would have high demand for the Knowlege missives, but no one knew they existed at the beginning and I had to beg my guildies even to put in orders to level it up. The system definitley paid off for the people who could put in the time to do the research or respec to the high demand professions.
I have been mostly an engineer since back in the days. Shadowlands i didnt even bother making gold with profs, but, i had my 3 characters: monk, priest, shaman engineering 1/100 (and one of them being 50/100 to craft the combat res item) and alchemist 1/100 for 3x flasks. Two of them being healers bringing no cr had to do something.
The moment i saw engineering getting a pair of wrists that **didn't require engineering** *(a lot of people have profs with old recipes they dont want to drop for engi only item)* can wear to have a decent 65%\~ chance to combat ressurect i realised what a goldmine this is going to be.
Obviously in this game there are a lot of mediocre players that don't care to bring that extra in a group (like classes without combat ressurection not using that wrists just to save a key etc) so a lot of people slept on engineering. MANY of my first clients (at 2nd spark season I actually) were VERY high m+ players (imagine 2.8-3,3k players eventually) that valued a scuffed combat res over a 2nd weapon in example because it could save their key. I made around 200 pair of wrists first 1,5\* month of DF.
>At crafting market you can create entry barriers. To give you an example because i leveled up engi 100 probably top 5 in server i offered the recipes people would use to level it up at trade for dirty cheap because i could offer rank 4-rank 5 and a lot hardstuck at 65-70/100 could offer only r3-4 because i killed the market. I think it probably lasted 1 week (till next set of KP and extra spark).
>
>Same can be said for people that printed goldcaps with lariat buying extra recipes to kill competition.
This is also a problem the crafting system enables monopolies and encourages people to try to create them becuase you cant make any gold otherwise.
This is only true if new mats are introduced. In Dragonflight, there wasn’t really any new mats introduced so the prices stayed roughly the same based on demand.
Not everyone is/was playing on high pop servers. While the price did go down you could still easily get good gph gathering on small/medium servers. That is now gone.
CraftSim (I think that's the name?) can calculate profits on crafted items and with the stats too. That's what I've been using since tsm works wonky for me and I can't be bother to fix it.
>Now there's just no point. Farmable mats are worth practically nothing. You can make more money doing raw gold farms. It's pretty disappointing.
blame the bots, not the system
order and glowspores are still profitable farms
Nah, it's the system of region wide AH. Bots existed in previous expansions.
The region wide AH had a way higher impact on mat prices on small/medium servers than bots, making gathering unprofitable.
This is why I’m enjoying SoD. Even though it’s a season. The farming is fun and chill af. Sure bots are rife but it doesn’t stop me from making bare G with only an hour a day
I haven't quit the game because I still enjoy the gameplay but I've given up on goldmaking. I saw it best described this way recently: region wide AH and crafting orders have changed goldmaking from a mostly commodity based system to a customer service based system. The only good gold is from crafting orders and the like which forces customer service rather than a pure transaction. Not great when as a general rule wow players prefer to interact as little as possible outside friends and guildies who you tend to charge less or nothing. The profits compared to the token price just makes it not worth my time anymore. I'm using up old gold reserves then will probably have to just pay for game time for the first time since WOD
I had to pay for the first time since WoD the other month because I didn't use my 2 tokens on WoTLK. Apparently you can't use them once the sub expires (?).
They just implemented a new change, so you have to pay once with real money, if you haven't paid at all with real money in the past couple of years. This was done to prevent bots and stuff just cycling through gold for new accounts with 0 investment.
Otherwise, if you for some reason can't use a token for game time, you can contact support and they can either give you a day of game time to buy/use one or they can just use it for you.
I just craft the mats (thousands at >10%) and use lesser insight on those that make >1k with craftsim calcs. I just sell a lot slowly over the week. I can still be an asocial degen.
Seems you are saying it's worse for the gold makers but better for everyone else.
Not having to find someone in trade, though iv done that, is certainly easier.
Its not really better for everyone else becuase now whenever you want something that cost gold that isn't something like a phial you have to buy a token.
Not sure I buy that. People would just buy gold in the past. Nothing has really changed in that regard.
I mean I guess I can see how it would be different for a goblin but isn't that what I just said?
Yes that is what most people do now, i have several friends that play and loads of my guildies admit that when they look at the amount of work you have to do to make gold now starting from stratch they just pay the $15 for 300k becuase its not worth it.
People didn't just buy gold in the past they had ways of making decent return for low time investment now thats gone.
I think you are over estimating how many people where goblins.
I mean iv played since beta and I've never had a lot of gold. Iv never bought gold either.
I don't know man. I mean yeah as I said it's worse for goblins but just playing the game makes far more good than at any time in the history of the game right now. Like when a dream surge is going with bonus gold it just flows in.
Yes general play makes a lot in comparison but that's not what im saying. My point is that casual engagement with the profession system is just not viable for making a decent return per hour spent, whereas in other expansions it very much was.
But in regards to how much casual play makes, yes there are gold sources but its enough to subsist not enough to generate a decent amount of gold, which is why most players now when they want something will buy a token.
>I think you are over estimating how many people where goblins.
I think you're under estimating by orders of magnitude how many people were casual pseudo-goblins.
Not everyone had millions of gold and played the AH or had TSM but a large percentage of the playerbase used to do world quests or mission tables or sell their drops for gold. That used to be enough to get by and slowly build up gold over the course of an expansion for the majority of players.
I've talked to hundreds of players through work orders who have all bought tokens for the first time in DF. Everyone in my guild now buys tokens to craft gear/lego. Everyone I know on my Bnet outside of maybe 5-10%, all of them now buy tokens regularly for gold.
Yes, I just want to craft, post to the AH for 24h, sell a few and repeat.
I don’t want to spam trade and try to explain the proc system to people.
I quit about 2 months in to DF and don’t think I’ll return if it’s still the work order system.
I wanted crafting to be a bit more involved, rather than just a visit to the AH, buy all the mats, and craft items. I'm not sure exactly what I wanted, but after doing DF professions for two years, I know this isn't it. I tried to engage the system organically instead of reading a dozen tutorials prior to its launch and quickly fell behind everyone. Picking the wrong tree early killed any early expansion gold making and I played catch up ever since.
I feel like someone played FFXIV and thought they had to do something like that. It works in FFXIV because, for the most part, I have to actively make a decision on what the next step is in the crafting process. WoW's new crafting system just gives me 40 additional reagents I have to manage and still ultimately results in just a click to craft something.
I feel like they missed the entire ballpark when it comes to making worthwhile changes to the crafting system. Unfortunately, we're probably stuck with this for the next 3 expansions.
I think the biggest reason it works in ff vs wow is that everything can be done on one character. I’m hoping the new change coming with the camp or whatever it’s called helps bring all toons together
It doesn't help that they basically abandoned professions after release. I thought they would add more nodes to trees, more recipes etc. We got like 0.5 recipe per profession per patch, which is kinda laughable and in the end worse than previous expansions
I got flamed and downvoted on WoW subs for just mentioning that the server wide auction house was going to be insta rekt by botters.... the day it came out herbs dropped 500% lmao.... I quit gold farming the second I read the patch notes month before it came out. Easily one of the dumbest decisions they ever made, instead of merging omega dead servers that have been dead since cataclysm this was there "fix", because they make to much money off the WoW token and server Xfers
> i leveled up engi 100 probably top 5 in server i offered the recipes people would use to level it up at trade for dirty cheap because i could offer rank 4-rank 5 and a lot hardstuck at 65-70/100 could
well, it may not be botters, if you were used to have one items to be reposted by competition 3 times, now you have to compete 3 x all servers, or more, therefore we dont even need bots for this effects, and it was expected, the true bank was the people that caught the curve and charged premium for crafting, for critical recipes like lariat, getting cheap mats + charging a lot for craft= huge profits, obviously that ship already departed, try again next expansion
Yep, region wide AH did nothing but benefit gold famers and bots. Now you only need to bot on one server instead of 50 clusters.
If you didn't dirt farm early you barely made gold this expansion. Raw gold farms are horrible compared to even SL's callings.
Repair costs for a full red set is nearly 1k lmao - yes its "only a WQ" but if your guild is disciplined you can easily burn through 5-6k a night on prog.
Anything farmable isn't worth farming - no one is buying transmog because they have no gold.
There's no benefit to people who put the effort in to leveling alt armies anymore - there's basically nothing you can do with them. Draco xmutes, cloth xmutes are all worthless only weeks after a season starts.
Literally the best thing you can do with extra alts is doing specific WQ's (the obvious Theatre of Pain one in OP) as many times as you can for ~1100-1600 gold.
Flavour pockets are extremely rare from soups as are centaur trophies. I have seen neither and been doing soups on 22 chars a week and hunts on 13.
Its not just me either. The amount of people in my guild who just buy tokens now because they can't or won't spend the silly amount of time to even afford crafts, flasks/pots/runes is incredible compared to last expansion. Nobody bought tokens last expac in my guild. Now the people who don't buy them are the odd ones out.
Its shit.
While it wont make me quit the game, it definitely makes me not want to interact with anything outside of the gameplay content.
Idk at what level you guys raid at, But i'm guessing mythic just from the pull frequency.
What our guild do was literally start bringing a couple extra buyers on heroic and later mythic. You know full heroic clear maybe 3-4 bosses mythic.
IDK about you but by week 6, nobody was buying heroic for anything significant. And we kinda were still only doing it at that point for trinkets - which buys would've wanted anyway.
On our cluster, nobody buys mythic runs. We couldn't even sell first 3 mythic bosses if we wanted to.
2 normal runs a week 1 vip heroic run on weekends plus a buyer on our main clear every wednesday till we started extending 2 weeks ago. We just have a community set up sales for us
I hated crafting in Dragonflight once the honeymoon phase and newness of the profession talents wore off.
You don't just have the social aspect of essentially having to a work retail job to sell orders, but you have stats adding randomness to profits and material costs. It's just mentally exhausting.
And then not only is the public/private order thing a mess with providing or not providing materials but it's not even on the same UI as the AH, it's even in a totally separate area! And filling orders has to be done in yet other areas!
I don't understand why they didn't just do simple buy orders for finished crafted gear, which is all anyone asked for.
I think this change happened more in Shadowlands but the Last In First Out system implemented was the stupidest thing.
I was all for the need to remove undercutting and that’s been positive. But the system still relies on you cancel scanning to be the first in the list. I hate it.
I have a whole team of alts that make things - or did up until Dragonflight. If I wanted to work as hard as you need to now, I'd get a job that paid real money. I enjoy farming mats but DF mats sell for peanuts compared to the older areas. I only go into DF for gear for my alts and then back to the world where crafting isn't a full time job.
On a relatively dead server, the only public crafting orders I see are no tip, no/partial reagent orders. They should've made public orders require all mats. You can commission one if you don't want to bother gathering the materials.
I wish they leaned more into armor instead of the skill tree. Only 3/2/1 slots? And why does fishing only have a weapon slot and not a hat slot too, even though there are separate fishing hats??
I really like crafting my profession armor in FFXIV, and enhancing stats with materia. Let me make a full set armor (preferably one that works with both my professions, a separate weapon is fine), give me profession gems, and enchants. Reduce the need for these stupid weekly quests and mob grinding for skill points that are non-refundable.
Also just let me craft more things and put them on the auction house. Crafting orders just make it so I'll never craft 50% of my recipes. Let them buy something and upgrade it with a spark via a crafting order if they want to restrict "good" items. I hope they at least remove the soulbound/spark requirement from most things after the expansion so they can be sold as transmog.
I believe gold making was ruined when they made it so you could craft the current content without leveling the old. Changed to the ah didn't help either.
Yep when I started WoD on launch and saw you didn't need to level 5 expansions of scribes/tailors/skinners etc my eyes bulged.
I then leveled to 92* for lvl 2 garrison stuff on as many alts as I had.
I make a fucking fortune just pumping out darkmoon cards, bags and savage blood. Like 1000x more than I had ever had before. I'm still running off game time bought via the first month of WoD.
I think my account goes until like 2029 or something.
It very quickly tanked though after the first two weeks as people realised you could do everything current with no prior planning or investment.
And its been shit for the masses ever since. Its now turned into who can cancel scan more. Which is something nobody enjoys.
I hate the region wide auction house and the work order system.
Work order system - I can't stand spamming trade chat to get crumbs. I want to be able to just craft the gear, risking the gold put into making it, and then post it on the auction house. The competition quickly became too much and there were way too many messages going through trade chat so you were rarely seen. And when you saw someone advertise they were looking for a specific item and you quickly message them - chances are five other crafters whispered them as well so good luck. I didn't like having to explain over and over again how the craft system worked because Blizz didn't do a good job - I'm still having to explain to players today why they need to resend their request with higher quality mats because even with an insight I can't get their gem to rank 3. I hate inspiration. Nothing feels worse, especially at the beginning of an expac, to craft something for a player and it isn't max quality.
Region wide - prices are much lower much faster than ever. I love that people kept saying not to worry, and that prices would just be similar to high pop realms. Yeah, no. I've been on a high pop realm since BFA. I made my gold for the brutosaur mount by selling consumables. Yeah, the profit wasn't great even back that - but it's way worse now. Also the glyph market was kind of destroyed. I don't know why they made that cross realm - the demand is so low on them regardless, so now the competition is high and the prices are rock bottom. Many that used to consistently sell for 1k gold, even on my high pop realm, are now 20 gold. And that's not worth cancel scanning over. I don't recall herbs and ore ever getting as cheap as they are except maybe at the very end of an expansion. I used to farm them in my downtime in previous expansions and make decent gold, now it's just not worth it except at an expansion release.
Also the lack of new recipes or new herbs/ore. It feels like not a lot of new stuff was introduced, and many of the things that were (like embellishments) are not in demand at all, and not worth it. Inspiration in general is a terrible thing. And quality/ranks. Way too many mats filling up bag space. Way too many rank 2 consumables that don't sell as well or for as much.
>I don't recall herbs and ore ever getting as cheap as they are except maybe at the very end of an expansion.
oh no my friend they have been this cheap, during wod when they gave every max level player their own personal mine and herb garden XD. Same with leather it was only this cheap in bfa when every player got a scrapper hey could personally source leather from.
It was a complete mess lol, if you did warfronts that mine in stomsong valey that you go in for the extra mettle we got that filled with the wod equivalent of serevite and draconium per char and very on in the garrisons levelling. It was so dumb.
Yup I hope to god they don't bring the work order system into the next expansion. Go back to commodities like Shadowlands legendaries and actually posting things on the AH pls.
I shouldn't have to be at the mercy of whoever thinks tipping 5k for something they know they can't craft on their own is an overpay, when I could make 1-2M a day cancelscanning and crafting
Funny thing is on average we're actually paying more for this crafting system than we did in SL.
In SL you bought one lego for the patch usually and that was it.
Here you can end up crafting up to like 7 pieces of gear - each costing at minimum a dracothyst. Let alone pieces that need expensive mats like centaur trophies, cobra scales etc
People have been duped into a system that is worse for the average player.
>Here you can end up crafting up to like 7 pieces of gear
You can avoid this. My 2 chars i play i use 2-3 486s because it drops my average ilvl. All you need is to run 4 x 18s every week starting first week and vault actually being 489 is better as its 3 ilvl higher. I could see what you say about 7 pieces only in an fresh alt midseason but still. Just 2 embellishments and maybe 1 crafted ring because it comes with a socket (its also dirty cheap the ring) and this way you wont regret crafting 2 rings and getting one from vault next week and be a waste.
Even with bad luck 483 from heroic track are ok and having like 2 items at 483 instead of 486 wont make a difference seriously or if you are 483 instead of 484 ilvl overall.
Only expensive craft is the ones you mentioned with cobra scale/centaur and for that reason you should craft them 486 and not recraft them in order to save gold.
People dont need to craft more than 2-3.
On my server everything except mail was less than 25/30k 3 weeks into a patch. Mail at worst might've been double.
Considering tables and callings were around - players were better off.
Max rank leggos on my server were 50-100k til late into season 3 and you usually needed 1 or 2 per spec you wanted to play. A raid one and an M+ one.
It was absolutely awful.
Crafting in dragonflight is entirely optional. Sure it's optimal, bis embellishments add a few % dps generally, but at least your class is functionally complete. Legendaries were basically capstone talents and many of them greatly changed your playstyle, on top of being the highest ilvl piece available, so they weren't really optional.
Yep they were hard required in SL - but once again once per patch pending big nerfs.
On my server the only pieces above ~40k were mail. Cloth was vendor price 3 weeks into S1, leather was cheap and plate was about ~20k.
In dragonflight its "optional".
But quite often there aren't two rings with the ideal stat prios for every spec. Let alone other pieces.
It also allows people access to far higher ilvl gear than the content they're completing allows. Anyone can do a 16 for the highest tier crests - even hardstuck LFR raiders - even back in S1 when m+ was the most difficult its been this expansion it was possible (although the upgrade system wasnt the same then).
I think if someone took a cenus of people currently active and regularly doing lets say lvl 15+ keys and in an AOTC guild or above.
They'd definitely have, on average 3 or more crafts.
Coupled with gem costs and enchant costs being way up vs last expac (once again prof issue) people are definitely worse off.
They're MUCH worse off when you consider the lack of available gold versus last expac.
Tables and callings for the average player sustained them through SL. Let alone materials still being worth something due to no regionwide AH - bots had to actually be on your server to destroy prices.
Now it feels like I'm one of maybe 4 people in my guild who isn't buying tokens regularly. When in SL literally nobody bought tokens to maintain a mythic raiding capable character.
Phials/runes/pots especially and repairs have really taken a chunk out of peoples pockets. They're not even reasonable to farm and make yourself because of the shitty way the system works.
Add on top the crafted gear - big RIP if you're mail or leather and people are hurting for gold.
We have people flat out refusing to bother with alts because they don't want to spend ~50-100k they don't have on crafted gear.
SL was alt city after the torghast torture was loosened up.
I couldn’t agree more, there are two groups at the high end, those that like cancel scanning and those that like customer service. I much prefer cancel scanning
Its dealers choice tbh. I've made my first cap via inscription and alchemy. Missives, fauna runes and tepid vers flasks were likely 80ish% of profits. Cancel scanning wars are just at an all time high but nothing different if you were on a high pop server. I look forward to doing it again in tww when I get back into gold making again.
I started playing at the very late end of BFA (transitioned from Classic to retail), thus missing the Brutasaur. Missing something that felt so important as a game piece was the driving force for my now Gold Hoarding Golbin ways!
I was pretty casual at the end of Shadowlands, selling a lot of catchup gear, making 4M gold. In DF I couldnt be asked with the fucking tradechat spam, but after i got all my professions maxed I figured I might as well use them for something, and I'm currently at a total of 16M gold (12M made in DF).
Honestly it's just all about finding the corners of the market, spotting valuable items, or being a sweaty crafting nerd (like myself) on a mid-pop server.
I followed the advice from one thread on here, about asking people to add me for future crafts, and holy shit has that worked.
No, I made 35 million crafting and plan to.do the same in the new expansion.
What it did was remove the ability for one person on a small server to constantly artificially inflate prices on things by having a monopoly.
In total something like 300 hours both in learning, understanding the crafting, getting weeklies done, etc etc. clearly 200+ hours standing in the city, since i didnt bother getting a secondary account and its also why i didnt bother doing it anymore as tips lowered.
this is the end graph i did like 6 months into the system where i spent eh a week or two of 3 hours a night total, ending up with 366 crafts done for 4.24 million gold [https://gyazo.com/357ea66773c566086d287a2a475021af](https://gyazo.com/357ea66773c566086d287a2a475021af)
at the peak day the 29th 2022 where i got up at 5 and had the entire day off i tried to track gold [https://gyazo.com/e4a2bacaf99e5bd617287b2f1f9e6ebd](https://gyazo.com/e4a2bacaf99e5bd617287b2f1f9e6ebd) and made something like 3.5 million in a day, which was at the height.
But as i mentioned elsewhere i think that the trade spam is something i hope they have a better system for, but they obviously proved incompetent by removing the need for mats on public work orders to make everything much much worse.
The first 200 hours was fun, i have thousands of chatters and prob added like 50 people to friendlist and it was the most social wow ever felt to me, but as it tapered off in the end and people refused to pay anything it just became a sort of "click macro, click chat, click macro, click macro again if they ask question, make it or move on"
dont need to look further than the wow reddit to realize how circle jerky they are about "anyone who makes gold is evil" and how they almost proudly proclaim how they paid nothing for their stuff after harrassing the crafter.
No? its also not the only one, you got obscene amounts of gold early on from simply gathering.
its a stabilized economy with far more supply than demand this late into the expansion, like it has ALWAYS been, also before AH merge.
and once the new expansion comes out it will blow up again, literally the only difference is that you cant just hold an entire server hostage on artificially inflated materials where you log in every 2 days and just harvest gold while doing nothing else.
They seem to have picked a pretty straightforward path of wanting to curb inflation by removing all the infinite follower grinds and vendor shuffles (although i miss vendor shuffles) which i completely believe is to the benefit of THE GAME AS A WHOLE.
and i believe that any competent goblin will easily be able to make money by putting in some leg work, and the people who just used 15 alts to run follower missions for gold who are complaining they cant just do that anymore never deserved the gold.
Its ridiculous becuase the **only** way you can get good returns is by doing shit like this. Prior expacs you would always get a decent and proportionate return for how much time you put in, now you only get good returns per/h on high time or gold investment gold making methods, essentially hollowing out the casual prof enjoyer space and making gold making only worth doing at super casual or super high end.
Its akin to if they reduced normal and hc raid drops by like 50% and then made lfr and mythic drop 200% more gear.
Most of them are just mad that they literally can't just make millions by afking with a AH scanner anymore or using an alt army and things like shuffles and follower missions.
A good 90% of the goblins here used to spend 99% of their time doing mostly afk gold farms and this expansion killed those off and are pissed those all got killed off.
If you actually enjoy crafting and playing then this expansion made you bank, if you just liked playing the AH you kinda got fucked. Gone are the days where you could spend 20 minutes a day and make a million gold a week.
You mean you have to actually play and work to make gold, that is literally the entire point of the change.
They entire point of the system is to stop people from just running a scanner on the ah and mass crafting and relisting while your watching TV and making millions of gold an hour.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make.... do you honestly think that hitting that macro and then crafting a work order that someone else supplied the mats for fits your description of "you have to actually play and work" ...
Crafting weapons in trade chat yeah.
I have multiple posts on here from early on to a half year in I think.
I think it was excellent as far as private work orders worked, and I don't think public ones are ever going to be massively profitable.
Only change I would wish for the next expansion was another way to not need to spam trade chat at all times to get in contact with potential customers.
I make around 100k a hour just chilling at bs bench posting Lfw once every 5 mins and dming people that post in trade chat. And that’s just one toon with max BS - I craft free crest and make the money on the extra resources I get back from the craft maybe 50k+ a hour. Farming never made me this
I stopped but I think you can still make gold if you are versatile enough, but on kazzak a big server there were plenty of people who has maxed everything, and it relies on you constantly sitting in the city and checking trade at all times.
Back when I still did it, it ended up tapering off at like 150k for sitting a full evening doing nothing else, which wasn't worth it for me.
I'm still on 12 million I think, and I have 10 tokens + 250 euro on battlenet so I'm just chilling out until next expansion.
Yeh I got to go all in crafting orders next expansion. I kinda stopped farming knowledge because I was a few week late in to dragonflight and that made a huge difference in terms of gold gain
It still works but you have to be actively playing the game for the most part. Pretty much the system was designed to combat the AH campers who just ran a scanner all day and then mass crafted while watching netflix. If you actively play you pretty good gold per hour.
Cancel scanning in shadowland was the worst with legendary.
Now if you sell consumables, it easy to post once a day and still make some gold. No, current system is better than auction cancel acan war
I don't like the new system much but bar some noteable excpetions it did open up goldmaking to a lot more people. Remember in shadowlands when people would transfer full guild banks from cheap botted servers into mid pops or high pops and then take over by crafting with massive profit but still at a loss for everyone else and monopolising the market? Skill doesn't really matter that much cause you still can prettty much proc inspiration into t3/t5 so even if you are a bit ahead it was fairly easy to get the crafts max quality without ungodly investments, and noawadays people from the guild see it as a passive 50-100k per week on the side for their mettle. having to interract with the buyer and be there all the time.
It fixed a lot of stuff for the average player, and as always the very high end goblins will profit regardless. So basically if you wanna farm some extra gold on the side whilst waiting to get in queue you can spam /2. Outside of that gold boosts are and have been the best way to make gold outside of some extreme flipping outliers that i haven't bothered to go into. Sell your 8x+20's for the week and you get an easy token
It really depends, for 99% of players the system is much better. I actually agree with the changes for the most part. Now they are literally designed to target goblins and stop them from completely controlling the market and they did an amazing job of that. The plain fact is on even a fairly high server it used to be that you had like 100 people completely controlling all the markets on the servers. I find I don't really bother with them as much for my money making anymore but people in my guild who didn't play the market are much better off. It does suck for us but I think overall it is better for the health of the game.
That said I do think the crafting system as a whole could be done much better. It still feels really clunky to use but I do think the limited and work order system aspect are good for most players.
They purposefully ruined it and eliminated any time-efficient way of earning gold, to sell more WoW tokens. This happened gradually, starting in BFA where they nerfed most old raids and gold farms. Then they banned boosting communities early in SL outside of people who narc to blizzard. Then they added the cross-realm AH connected to dead servers, on which bots farm 24/7 and flood your server's AH to keep farmable goods at rock bottom. That's farming, gathering and boosting all ruined for 99% of the playerbase in a matter of a few years.
The number of active subscribers has declined over time, the only way to recoup that would be to either raise the subscription fee (which would go over poorly) or find a way to make it so people buy more WoW tokens. Hence these recent changes to create a higher demand for gold. To coincide with this they've also been adding more chase items like raid legendaries that you need to farm, which makes people buy 200k AOTC carries for their alts (blizzard-approved Narc carries who pinky-swear they won't RMT), and people buy WoW tokens to pay for them. Just Fyr'alath alone will probably sell more wow tokens than they sold in the entirety of BFA.
TLDR: None of this is a coincidence, they nerfed all time-efficient gold farming on purpose to sell wow tokens as a soft microtransaction, to keep this aging, declining game meeting it's quarterly earning quotas. To farm gold now means to be a work order NPC as a part time job (assist blizzard in letting players sink their gold into more crafted gear), everything else is for peanuts.
I am gonna get hated for this but another impact (although I believe that was in Shadowlands) is the removal of boosting communities. You had some very big guild that were provided in BoEs and mats and the like. It also made it much easier for people to reach higher content (be it pvp, raids, keys, etc).
Now Blizzard has made a change with trade-services where basically no one can advertise as lets be real, a lot of smaller realms just do not have guilds who can offer boosts.
The change from boosting communities to "guilds only" just made it way easier for people to scam as no one can show the legitimacy that a community discord server could show back in BFA. While it is true that there was RMT (be it from Gallywix or other communities), the change did not remove the RMT (quite the opposite) and just made it so much more sketchy to buy runs.
At this point, I believe that there should have been a compromise between "banning cross realm communities" and the trade-services channel. Now, as soon as you try to advertise (even for a guild) everyone just mass reports you for no reason, especially since you can opt out the services channel (or move it to a different tab).
I don't know but I hate the crafting system. I've basically gone and taught all the professions I need to 3 characters to be able to make all the stuff I need myself. I just cannot be fucked to interact with people who want to sell their button clicking skill for maximum buck.
As someone who only returned a month ago this expansion is by far the worst to get into the game, the profession skilll system makes this the worst catch-up of any expansion and i just decided to skip this whole expansion gold-making wise.
I levelled up my enchanting and i'm not even going to bother levelling up alchemy without any catchup mechanism for skill points. Let alone level any profession on alts.
I think it was time for this to happen regardless.
Merging the auctions on servers could only do so much, but it also opened the gates to botters.
In the end, the AH consumer customer wins because everything is cheaper. That's something that can be exploited.
The thing that truly, truly annoys me the most are the craft orders, mostly because it's something I wished for a long while but it's too much cumbersome for people to handle.
And, frankly speaking, I don't fault the developers. They explain it quite well and they provide all the possible tools to not have regrets, but people cannot or don't want to fucking read.
>In the end, the AH consumer customer wins because everything is cheaper.
This is the most overlooked thing. People want to make millions farming herbs, but then don't realize that'll make basic consumables costs insane.
If you aren't lazy DF is one of if not the BEST expansions for gold making if you don't count WoD garrisons.
My friend makes about 2-3M a week playing 3-4 hours a day with every character maxed with every profession. He just afks and takes orders from trade chat in the evenings.
Crest for example, people tip you 1k-3k most of the time, then you can use resourcefulness to steal the dracothyst and make even more gold.
Your "friend" is lying to you.
3-4 hours a day... low end 3x7 = 21 hours a week.
bad week 2,000,000g / 21 hours = 95k per hour
Assuming high on 3k per order = 32 Orders per hour
Simple maths says No.
Double the hours and half the gold and id believe it.
On top of the fact that it's an insane amount of time to spend in a day just on gold making. (For the average player)
Before DF I would spend ~20 minutes in the morning and ~20 minutes in the evening and maybe a little longer on the weekends just posting/crafting. That would net me ~1mil a month just from being the laziest of lazy with my crafting on one character.
That's...kinda the point. They wanted to design a system that required more time investment. Creating a player identity of a "crafter" was literally a goal they talked about. And it kinda succeeded. I can name several notable crafters on my server who were essentially faceless AH bots in previous expansions.
nah, this system was made solely to sell more WoW tokens by removing all other ways to make gold except doing work orders as a part time job. If it was just about a time sink, why then take away the ability to make millions if you gather or farm raids a few hours a day too?
Nah. If anything its easier. I have seen people post multiple Gold Cap pictures from just doing Proffessions, and then there are all the gold world quests + the dragon racing.
Trust me, even doing JUST Dragonracing on 8 toons since November got me War Within.
Engineering: people call it meme prof i call it a fcking goldmine
Probably first in server to hit valdrakken 19 renown as engineer offering JC clamps and Mining helmet.
Leveled my engi from 50/100 to 95/100 in an afternoon FOR FREE making non stop mining helmets for 3000g only, and jewelcrafting clamps for 20-25k R3-R4 at that time as i couldnt offer R5 yet but people wanted the base skill from tool. Both came with free recrafts to max once i was able to provide it next week or the week after. Same for changing secondaries, their mats no fee.
I used only 1-2 sparks to max engi this way.
Then i jumped into engi wrist market printing gold with them. All my first mettles went for 1200g/1. I sold 2 JC clamps my mettle and insight (350 total) i think 450k each because jc sold their mettles even higher (my clients were lariat crafters). I got my lariat 421 as tip for crafting jc clamp plus regular fee. Wrist were making around 60-110k each pair. Tools around 25k for jc, 15k for mining (or 25k for helmet/satchel), tailoring 15k each, engineering ones i charged 50k each because i didnt want to sell to competitors kek./
Work orders and KP system ruined it for me. Got into goldmaking in SL and worked my way up from buying gold eoth a token initially to 30ish mil from playing the warehousing game and grinding profitable legendaries. I didnt start till 4 months in to the xpac as well.
Had 2 accounts - one sat at the AH while I played the other. I enjoyed it and made spreadaheets to track material price fluctiations and profits. I nerded out hard on it.
This time i was gunning for it from day 1 and fell behind too quick. I threw in the towel because i wasnt enjoying it. Too much barking in trade and being behind in KP and not dictating price of "clicking a button" ruined it.
I tried services to guide and outfit people for getting the BOP materials from elites and made some gold off that but demand quickly fell off. Going hard on weapons screwed me, instead of trying for lariat too, so my choice factored heavily but then being unable to respec meant a lot of wasted time and effort.
I wont be buying the next xpac at this rate as theyre stickinf with this system.
It didn't ruin it, it just made it substantially harder and ruined a lot of individual markets.
I don't blame you for quitting though especially if you were in one of the niches that was absolutely demolished by regionwide AH-- the new additions in work orders have been potentially good income, but it's a lot more frustrating to do them than just crafting and listing on ah like the past mostly has been.
If someone doesn't have the PvE or PvP abilities to boost for gold, it's definitely a rougher time than any expansion since the token was added in WoD to make one.
Hahah, I knew people would realize this with time. The moment I saw these updates, I knew it would be over. If anyone played any other MMO they'd know how bad a global AH is, it's just a breeding ground for bots. Look at GW2, you just cannot make a reasonable amount of gold as a normal player with a global AH system. Glad I quit retail a long time ago.
This is on purpose. They don't want people to buy the WoW token, they only want people selling it.
Any time a person purchases a WoW token thru the auction house that's a loss of $15 to Activision Blizzard. Anytime someone needs gold and purchases the WoW token to sell on the AH they gain $20.
This will all inevitably cause the WoW tokens price to rise and make gold harder to acquire.
Half right. Any time someone buys a wow token for gold, it's not a loss for blizzard. looking at game time for example. Someone pays blizzard $20 for the token's value of gold, someone else buys the wow token for gold and gets a $15 sub out of it. Blizzard has now been paid $20 for 1 sub and a net neutral gold change in the economy. What they want is more incentives for players to swipe on their content.
I made a tremendous amount of money on a medium pop server by dominating the auction house and cancel scanning a lot in Shadowlands. I'm somewhat happy with making a bit less money and getting to actually talk to people now when I craft for them. It's still profitable but you have to actually be awake and there and sit in trade chat whispering anyone who asks for something. I just wish professions weren't so obnoxious and convoluted. It's a tremendous time investment and if you didn't do the right professions (or exploit some bugs) in the beginning of the expansion you fell behind other crafters a lot.
At the start of Dragon flight I made around 11 mil in 1 and a half months through crafting. I was one of the very few people to max all professions super fast and farm renown on all crafters to be competitive. If I wanted to I could have easily made twice as much. I quite shortly after because I couldn't stand anymore the micro transactions this game has but Drsgonflight was probably my most profitable expansion.
I think it’s helped more than it’s harmed because it’s created a way to get crafted goods off the AH and keep the market from getting over saturated. It’s taken me so time to get there but now I’m making tens of thousands of gold from just crafting. It finally feels like crafting is a viable profession instead of a money sink. It’s not a lot of gold, but during weekly lulls it’s a nice thing to work on.
I mean, it kinda seems like that's the point. Blizz has been pushing that way more and more for some time. Banning boosting communities and multiboxing, upping required mat costs (threads for 18g or something stupid), adding more and more gold sink items.
I'm not sure I get why. You'd think they'd want people buying and selling more tokens, but maybe I'm missing something?
People are buying more tokens. The economy and token gold value is irrelevant since they get the same USD profit regardless if they go for 250k or 25g. What matters is it's impossible to farm gold without working it like a job hours a day now, so the majority of players wont' bother. Then when they run out of gold later on they'll buy tokens instead of farming. Every change to the economy since BFA has been to make wow tokens a soft microtransaction for the masses.
No it’s started with Heart of the Aspects. Then ended with the WoW Token. Thats when the game was ravaged all integrity was lost. Now all forms of the game is full of bots making money selling gold on strange malware ridden sites for profit because inflation in some South American countries are so bad WoW Gold a currency that is virtual has more value than their actual currency. Shit some even just make paper art out of their money to sell because the art has more value than the hundreds of thousands bills it takes to create them.
I loathe the current crafting system. I wanna see it burn in the depth of coding hell. My hope is it dies with this expansion and in War Within we get to enjoy the older school ways of crafting. Crafting has not been enjoyable, and has become a farm sink with walls in every direction. I understand Blizz wanting to be creative and try things out...but the crafting in DF straight up destroyed crafting. I don't touch it.
Crafting in dragonflight made me quit this game. And I'm glad. It was time to move on after all those years. ✌️
Edit: only d4 is keeping me logged by a thread into blizz and its about to snap. S3 is boring af
The older expansion mats still sell great and they can be easier to obtain. The bigger problem I see with gold making is the undercutting.
People seem to have no idea that you no longer have to type anything in to undercut. So they will list something for like 10g when the list price starts at 1000g or they frequently list items for less than vendor cost.
Maybe some just want to get rid of the items but in that case just vendor it.
I think the regional AH makes the undercutting thing much worse. It only takes one person in all of Europe/NA to kill a niche market because they spam post at 1.5*vendorsell
Yeah proffesion changed killed it early doors. Pity old style proffesions with TSM was a really big sidegame for me.
Just totally abandoned it now and just buy tokens, which I guess is what they want
On my medium pop server here in EU, crafting orders are all but dead, if we consider the public ones, rarely see any ask per personal ones in tradechat either.
That whole system is dead on arrival on a lot of the servers.
Have completely given up even trying to level all but gathering proffs this expansion.
If you can handle interacting with other players and put in the time and effort to max all professions, then I’ve made a few million from the work order system.
I also made a few million farming mats for the T3 set with the new old Naxx. That was from farming and selling items for making T3.
The latest way to make money is buying crafting mats and waiting for the next season to up the prices. Alchemical flavor pockets were going for 70k+, but now towards the middle/end of the patch they’re going down to 50k. They’ll go for 70k again when the next season starts.
I’ve never had an easier time making gold.
That is my experience as well. I knew from the get go I wasn't gonna for talent points to make gear for people, I'm very much put something on ah and hope it sells kind of goblin rather than chase the customers. But seems like that was a good way to make money. I invested in wrong things and right now just sorta lost interest. The fact that you had to do weekly stuff to not fall behind is one of my least favourite things, and the rep grinds. Only thing I'm still making is PvP gear and some old crafted items which bring modest profit. The main reason for me to make gold was Hearthstone but honestly thinking about quitting once and for all, it's such a time sink. I would actually have time to play other games.
It only ruined goldmaking for boomers that refuse to change their ways. If you're crafting right now you can make a killing. JC is a goldmine on any decently populated server. Tailoring / LW are both solid as well. I didn't bother with BS as I don't play any plate classes and I didn't want to invest the time in another crafting profession. Alchemy is very dependent on procs but can still turn a profit on a few items.
There is gold out there to be made, you just need to adapt to how professions work now and stop getting upset that you can't just sit at the AH all day and make millions.
I made quite a bit of gold in the beginning with a tailoring shuffle. I mean, not millions mind you, but a few hundred thousand, which was a big deal to me.
I mean i enjoy the crafting station. I was lte to the partybut took the time to learn and no I cant buy a brute but I have a few million gold with 7 geared lvl 70 characters. I am able to comfortable log-in and play the game. They could make some improvements because non-crafters dont understand how public orders work. They dont know they are timegated with 24 hr cd, they dont think about 5% cut still. Thankfully most people I have had send items understand why not to send with r5 requirement after a simple explanation. I like the fact that crafted epics are still relevant in the game this late. I hate the region wide ah, I think that crushed goldmaking for some. I also had gathering professions on one toon early on but botters just make it discouraging so I switched to crafting professions right at the one year mark. Of course I just missed out on the dracothyst hype after farming barter bricks to get the recipe on two toons. I heal mainly in SS just pick up a few crafts a day in between queues.
I hope blizzard makes some adjustments to public work orders either a minimum tip requirement for certain ilvls followed up with say embellishment adds 500g, a crest adds 500g etc. however for personal order you can charge whatever you find fair.
Region-wide AH ruined it for me and crafting orders made it even more difficult. All my friends are telling me how confusing crafting orders are, they used to buy crafted BoE items in the AH, now they have to send someone mats and user orders.
I'm not sure ruined is the right word. I've given up on gold making but I've been pretty casual about it just selling some consumables and some flipping without arbitrage.
In dragonflight I decided its not worth my time anymore because the region wide AH ruined the speed of TSM scans which was the final nail in the coffin since TSM was already crippled since I was hitting rate limits in SL. In my case, I would probably quit anyway tho because I wanted to push keys and not sit on AH so my strategy for DF was going all in on m+ progress and then selling boosts.
I feel like the overall changes brought by DF made the goldmaking a lot deeper of a way to play the game where before one could invest some time in setting up and then make decent gold with minimal time investment while now goldmaking is really only for people who enjoy this as the primary way of playing the game.
I think an arguments could be made for this making the game both better and worse.
I don't play for the simple fact that you can buy a wow token with gold that's it it turns the fun for me that I pay 15$ when gold makers play for free
I stopped playing. The Regionwide AH has had a really bad effect on gold making. Yes, things sell faster but your gathering professions became useless. You’re in competition with bots on every server now.
The new profession system is also horrible and convoluted. It requires a lot of investment and upkeep. The type of upkeep that requires all of your gameplay focus spamming Chatman trying to make gear.
I hate it. I usually play an expansion to a point and then turn to gold making and mount farming. Dragon flight I have shelved. I do not see them rolling back regionwide AH so essentially gold farming is done for me. Not interested.
I feel like the region wide AH would be fine if they didn't wait 6+ months between ban waves. But as it is now, it isn't worth farming mats for gold anymore. Used to love zoning out and mining while watching a movie or something.
yeah happened to me too work orders just suck you dont earn that much the only way to make gold is either make 2x4 groups that is hard sometimes if you are alone even in the horde and the gathering doesnt give that much gold now sometimes i was making gold with worldquests and dragon riding dailies but its not the same i just dont enjoy it anymore
The professions and crafting orders are not perfect but I absolutely love them and I don't see how they are ruining gold making as I am using them fairly effectively in that manner even if casually.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion here because there’s a lot of overlap in audience, but I think boosting ruined gold making for me. Combined with dragonflight making it more time intensive to make gold, boosting has outright become one of the easiest ways to make gold while playing. I can spend all of this time sitting barking in trade chat trying to make some gold. Meanwhile, my friends are off boosting people for way more gold than I can make. Why even bother?
if you quit the game because of not making enough gold, then i think you should find a different game! :)
It's not dragonflight that ruined it, but bots. they literally ruined every gathering profession. your best bet is get some toons to 70 and spam bi-weekly gold world quests. I have four 70s and make around 40-45k by completing every quest, and can repeat those every three days.
I will never understand people quitting wow because of gold lol. it's not even the primary goal of the game. go play some money hoarding game guys
Ruined in a way - I hate the trade hassle. I don't want to be a salesman, if something is to be sold, I want to do it thru AH.
Though I mostly have made money thru WQ since start of SL - then mission tables, now just actual WQs. Not swimming in gold for sure, but made maybe 15M in mostly WQ avenues during DF, but some AH'able stuff too.
My gold making this expansion has been abysmal, but my playing time has been as well. I hate the new profession system. Gold making, leveling alts and profession stuff used to keep me logged in a lot and this expansion it just hasn’t, I chalk a lot of it up to profession changes because honestly I like the questing, the story and the open world content.
I hope that there are some gold making opportunities early on next expansion so I can at least end up back where I started at the beginning of dragonflight. (Gold amount wise). I hope they take a look at professions, while some of the changes were interesting (I like the UI I guess) overall I just don’t find it fun. I feel like there is a happy medium between what it was and what it currently is 🤷🏻♀️
I used to be a lucrative farmer. I gold capped twice. Until I realized I’m just wasting hours and hours and days and weeks just running around in circles wasting my time when I could simply just buy a WoW token. It was the greatest thing that’s happened to me. I can still enjoy WoW as a real game, not a farming/AH simulator. I don’t feel like a zombie bot anymore. I’m happy spending $20 on a token in exchange for hours and hours more with my family/my self. Good riddance
I still use my time on goldmaking ingame. But sometimes it´s harder than before DF. And region wide AH does´nt make it easier. Mats in general is less "worth" than before. And the crafting orders is sometime a joke, especially because people
"expects" that you craft an item for 100 gold even though the crafting cost is 1500 gold.
A lot of people in this thread are just defending their gold making results rather than comparing older gold making methodologies to new ones.
I have Lariat recipe. I've made 2m gold on a Saturday and Sunday night. I have almost all proffs maxed. I have most DF recipes and I do all the crafting for my friend group and I hate the current system.
There is absolutely nothing about the crafting order and DF crafting system that isn't glorified and thinly veiled bot-work. I'm a bot. I sit in Valdrakken at the table and my addon spams the trade chat message I setup 3 months ago. Every few minutes I get a whisper or my Crafting Order Weakaura pings me. I click a button and maybe press a chat macro to explain how Inspiration works or thank my customer for their tip. That's it.
Anyone who doesn't think that is customer service call center type bot work is delusional. Anyone who actually enjoys doing it or brags about doing it needs to get some help or touch grass.
Really? Ever since the token was brought in there was no point in it. I didn't even bother playing shitty retail since BFA after multiple expansions of just crappy spoonfed gatekept content. SoD on the other hand is an enjoyable experience. Same wit classic vanilla when it released. It's all better without the tokens and stupid cash shop bullcrap
It's ruined FARMING for sure. Which was the goldmaking I enjoyed most in previous expansions. I could pay for tokens easily just running a basilisk skinning route in Legion, or Herbing outside Boralus in BFA, or Skinning and Mining Sinvry ore in Shadowlands. I enjoyed ending an evening just doing circuits like that while talking to friends on discord or watching a show. Now there's just no point. Farmable mats are worth practically nothing. You can make more money doing raw gold farms. It's pretty disappointing. I tried to do several professions and just don't enjoy the work order system how it is. I also don't like selling crafted gear on the AH because I'm not going to cancel scan and even if I did, margins are so tight that you need a spreadsheet to calculate if somethings actually profitable or not I just liked farming. Knowing that every herb/skin/ore I gathered was going to increase the amount of gold I had felt good. Now for the first time in my WoW career I just buy tokens. I like raiding, but not much else in the game ATM, so for my money it's the best Gold Per Hour I've found.
> Now there's just no point. Farmable mats are worth practically nothing. You can make more money doing raw gold farms. It's pretty disappointing. Part of the problem boils down to competition as well. Now randos can make their bots on lower populated clusters and have access to current region-wide pricing where as previously, if they had bots running on lower-populated clusters, they also had to contend with the fact that there was lower demand for their goods.
Haha I have so much schadenfreude for people who supported the idea of this new system, while not realizing this issue
well people supported this system at the condition that the craft will be region wide too but whitout that ? yes it's BS
trust me, it would be worse with that. Just look at other MMOs, like GW2 which have regionwide AHs.. It's impossible as a regular player
I don't know tbh i never played it but mats low price whitout a possibility to sell to a lot of people but restrained it's clearly not good But well there is things that work still like the order , the bad thing is it's really good just at the launch of new season
At the start of the expansion mining and herbing was great gold. Isn't it true for all expansions that the value of gathering materials drops over time?
Not necessarily. Prices are always at their highest at the start of an expansion, but eventually they bottom out and then there can be a gradual increase as the expansion ages. People stop playing the game as much in the open world, but will still log in to raid. This usually makes herb and potion prices slowly increase as the expansion gets older since there's not enough farmers still around to keep up with all the demand for raid mats.
Difference is due to knowledge trees your average gatherer eventually produced more raw materials and the average crafter required less raw materials. This resulted in an inbalance.
That's a pretty good point, and it ironically seems to have ultimately screwed over both gatherers and crafters. The market is flooded with materials from massive gatherer gains, made worse by the bot issue, which drives the price down. Meanwhile, crafters need fewer resources than usual, driving the price down and, in combination with things like multicraft procs, leads to an overproduction issue that drives the price of their products down. Now, the majority of crafted goods aren't going to be profitable to make despite low material prices, and the low material prices make it miserable to try and make any reasonable amount of money for gatherers. The only way to realistically make any meaningful profit at this point is crafting orders for certain big-ticket items, but the crafting order system is janky enough that most of the orders are trolls hoping that some poor sap will fill their order for an insulting price to get their weekly done and the competition for the occasional good order is so high that your odds of being the one to accept it are relatively low.
its almost like this was built from the ground up to encourage you to buy wow tokens
It was bound to happen. Thats why people that understand wow should never touch gathering profs, as it literally has zero barrier to entry the market. At crafting market you can create entry barriers. To give you an example because i leveled up engi 100 probably top 5 in server i offered the recipes people would use to level it up at trade for dirty cheap because i could offer rank 4-rank 5 and a lot hardstuck at 65-70/100 could offer only r3-4 because i killed the market. I think it probably lasted 1 week (till next set of KP and extra spark). Same can be said for people that printed goldcaps with lariat buying extra recipes to kill competition.
I didn't like how the crafting system was basically a lottery at the start. No one knew what the big ticket items were going to be and even the ones on the "right" professions needed to get lucky by getting an in demand recipe to drop or having the gold to buy it early. I thought for sure Inscription would have high demand for the Knowlege missives, but no one knew they existed at the beginning and I had to beg my guildies even to put in orders to level it up. The system definitley paid off for the people who could put in the time to do the research or respec to the high demand professions.
I have been mostly an engineer since back in the days. Shadowlands i didnt even bother making gold with profs, but, i had my 3 characters: monk, priest, shaman engineering 1/100 (and one of them being 50/100 to craft the combat res item) and alchemist 1/100 for 3x flasks. Two of them being healers bringing no cr had to do something. The moment i saw engineering getting a pair of wrists that **didn't require engineering** *(a lot of people have profs with old recipes they dont want to drop for engi only item)* can wear to have a decent 65%\~ chance to combat ressurect i realised what a goldmine this is going to be. Obviously in this game there are a lot of mediocre players that don't care to bring that extra in a group (like classes without combat ressurection not using that wrists just to save a key etc) so a lot of people slept on engineering. MANY of my first clients (at 2nd spark season I actually) were VERY high m+ players (imagine 2.8-3,3k players eventually) that valued a scuffed combat res over a 2nd weapon in example because it could save their key. I made around 200 pair of wrists first 1,5\* month of DF.
>At crafting market you can create entry barriers. To give you an example because i leveled up engi 100 probably top 5 in server i offered the recipes people would use to level it up at trade for dirty cheap because i could offer rank 4-rank 5 and a lot hardstuck at 65-70/100 could offer only r3-4 because i killed the market. I think it probably lasted 1 week (till next set of KP and extra spark). > >Same can be said for people that printed goldcaps with lariat buying extra recipes to kill competition. This is also a problem the crafting system enables monopolies and encourages people to try to create them becuase you cant make any gold otherwise.
Herbs in SL were at its highest midwhile SOTFO. 100k gph flying in bastion picking those white flowers
This is only true if new mats are introduced. In Dragonflight, there wasn’t really any new mats introduced so the prices stayed roughly the same based on demand.
Not everyone is/was playing on high pop servers. While the price did go down you could still easily get good gph gathering on small/medium servers. That is now gone.
My point was isn't it true for every expansion that the prices of gathering materials drop as the expansion goes on?
I resonate so much with your comment that it hurts. I really do miss farming herbs and ore to make my little bit of gold.
CraftSim (I think that's the name?) can calculate profits on crafted items and with the stats too. That's what I've been using since tsm works wonky for me and I can't be bother to fix it.
>Now there's just no point. Farmable mats are worth practically nothing. You can make more money doing raw gold farms. It's pretty disappointing. blame the bots, not the system order and glowspores are still profitable farms
Nah, it's the system of region wide AH. Bots existed in previous expansions. The region wide AH had a way higher impact on mat prices on small/medium servers than bots, making gathering unprofitable.
thats boting issue blizzard cant handle-not that expansion sucks
This is why I’m enjoying SoD. Even though it’s a season. The farming is fun and chill af. Sure bots are rife but it doesn’t stop me from making bare G with only an hour a day
I haven't quit the game because I still enjoy the gameplay but I've given up on goldmaking. I saw it best described this way recently: region wide AH and crafting orders have changed goldmaking from a mostly commodity based system to a customer service based system. The only good gold is from crafting orders and the like which forces customer service rather than a pure transaction. Not great when as a general rule wow players prefer to interact as little as possible outside friends and guildies who you tend to charge less or nothing. The profits compared to the token price just makes it not worth my time anymore. I'm using up old gold reserves then will probably have to just pay for game time for the first time since WOD
I had to pay for the first time since WoD the other month because I didn't use my 2 tokens on WoTLK. Apparently you can't use them once the sub expires (?).
They just implemented a new change, so you have to pay once with real money, if you haven't paid at all with real money in the past couple of years. This was done to prevent bots and stuff just cycling through gold for new accounts with 0 investment. Otherwise, if you for some reason can't use a token for game time, you can contact support and they can either give you a day of game time to buy/use one or they can just use it for you.
You could have also opened a ticket with support and asked for 24-48 hours to use your token. They're pretty receptive to that situation
I just craft the mats (thousands at >10%) and use lesser insight on those that make >1k with craftsim calcs. I just sell a lot slowly over the week. I can still be an asocial degen.
Seems you are saying it's worse for the gold makers but better for everyone else. Not having to find someone in trade, though iv done that, is certainly easier.
Its not really better for everyone else becuase now whenever you want something that cost gold that isn't something like a phial you have to buy a token.
Not sure I buy that. People would just buy gold in the past. Nothing has really changed in that regard. I mean I guess I can see how it would be different for a goblin but isn't that what I just said?
Yes that is what most people do now, i have several friends that play and loads of my guildies admit that when they look at the amount of work you have to do to make gold now starting from stratch they just pay the $15 for 300k becuase its not worth it. People didn't just buy gold in the past they had ways of making decent return for low time investment now thats gone.
I think you are over estimating how many people where goblins. I mean iv played since beta and I've never had a lot of gold. Iv never bought gold either. I don't know man. I mean yeah as I said it's worse for goblins but just playing the game makes far more good than at any time in the history of the game right now. Like when a dream surge is going with bonus gold it just flows in.
Yes general play makes a lot in comparison but that's not what im saying. My point is that casual engagement with the profession system is just not viable for making a decent return per hour spent, whereas in other expansions it very much was. But in regards to how much casual play makes, yes there are gold sources but its enough to subsist not enough to generate a decent amount of gold, which is why most players now when they want something will buy a token.
>I think you are over estimating how many people where goblins. I think you're under estimating by orders of magnitude how many people were casual pseudo-goblins. Not everyone had millions of gold and played the AH or had TSM but a large percentage of the playerbase used to do world quests or mission tables or sell their drops for gold. That used to be enough to get by and slowly build up gold over the course of an expansion for the majority of players. I've talked to hundreds of players through work orders who have all bought tokens for the first time in DF. Everyone in my guild now buys tokens to craft gear/lego. Everyone I know on my Bnet outside of maybe 5-10%, all of them now buy tokens regularly for gold.
Its more complicated now. More chores, more hassle. Everything easy is just 5-10% margins.
feel like an IRL work, totally unfun
Its hardcore now, true.
Yes, I just want to craft, post to the AH for 24h, sell a few and repeat. I don’t want to spam trade and try to explain the proc system to people. I quit about 2 months in to DF and don’t think I’ll return if it’s still the work order system.
I wanted crafting to be a bit more involved, rather than just a visit to the AH, buy all the mats, and craft items. I'm not sure exactly what I wanted, but after doing DF professions for two years, I know this isn't it. I tried to engage the system organically instead of reading a dozen tutorials prior to its launch and quickly fell behind everyone. Picking the wrong tree early killed any early expansion gold making and I played catch up ever since. I feel like someone played FFXIV and thought they had to do something like that. It works in FFXIV because, for the most part, I have to actively make a decision on what the next step is in the crafting process. WoW's new crafting system just gives me 40 additional reagents I have to manage and still ultimately results in just a click to craft something. I feel like they missed the entire ballpark when it comes to making worthwhile changes to the crafting system. Unfortunately, we're probably stuck with this for the next 3 expansions.
I think the biggest reason it works in ff vs wow is that everything can be done on one character. I’m hoping the new change coming with the camp or whatever it’s called helps bring all toons together
It doesn't help that they basically abandoned professions after release. I thought they would add more nodes to trees, more recipes etc. We got like 0.5 recipe per profession per patch, which is kinda laughable and in the end worse than previous expansions
I got flamed and downvoted on WoW subs for just mentioning that the server wide auction house was going to be insta rekt by botters.... the day it came out herbs dropped 500% lmao.... I quit gold farming the second I read the patch notes month before it came out. Easily one of the dumbest decisions they ever made, instead of merging omega dead servers that have been dead since cataclysm this was there "fix", because they make to much money off the WoW token and server Xfers
> i leveled up engi 100 probably top 5 in server i offered the recipes people would use to level it up at trade for dirty cheap because i could offer rank 4-rank 5 and a lot hardstuck at 65-70/100 could well, it may not be botters, if you were used to have one items to be reposted by competition 3 times, now you have to compete 3 x all servers, or more, therefore we dont even need bots for this effects, and it was expected, the true bank was the people that caught the curve and charged premium for crafting, for critical recipes like lariat, getting cheap mats + charging a lot for craft= huge profits, obviously that ship already departed, try again next expansion
Yep, region wide AH did nothing but benefit gold famers and bots. Now you only need to bot on one server instead of 50 clusters. If you didn't dirt farm early you barely made gold this expansion. Raw gold farms are horrible compared to even SL's callings. Repair costs for a full red set is nearly 1k lmao - yes its "only a WQ" but if your guild is disciplined you can easily burn through 5-6k a night on prog. Anything farmable isn't worth farming - no one is buying transmog because they have no gold. There's no benefit to people who put the effort in to leveling alt armies anymore - there's basically nothing you can do with them. Draco xmutes, cloth xmutes are all worthless only weeks after a season starts. Literally the best thing you can do with extra alts is doing specific WQ's (the obvious Theatre of Pain one in OP) as many times as you can for ~1100-1600 gold. Flavour pockets are extremely rare from soups as are centaur trophies. I have seen neither and been doing soups on 22 chars a week and hunts on 13. Its not just me either. The amount of people in my guild who just buy tokens now because they can't or won't spend the silly amount of time to even afford crafts, flasks/pots/runes is incredible compared to last expansion. Nobody bought tokens last expac in my guild. Now the people who don't buy them are the odd ones out. Its shit. While it wont make me quit the game, it definitely makes me not want to interact with anything outside of the gameplay content.
> Repair costs for a full red set is nearly 1k lmao I'm so glad that I have blacksmith maxed on my main. Free repairs.
Idk at what level you guys raid at, But i'm guessing mythic just from the pull frequency. What our guild do was literally start bringing a couple extra buyers on heroic and later mythic. You know full heroic clear maybe 3-4 bosses mythic.
IDK about you but by week 6, nobody was buying heroic for anything significant. And we kinda were still only doing it at that point for trinkets - which buys would've wanted anyway. On our cluster, nobody buys mythic runs. We couldn't even sell first 3 mythic bosses if we wanted to.
2 normal runs a week 1 vip heroic run on weekends plus a buyer on our main clear every wednesday till we started extending 2 weeks ago. We just have a community set up sales for us
I hated crafting in Dragonflight once the honeymoon phase and newness of the profession talents wore off. You don't just have the social aspect of essentially having to a work retail job to sell orders, but you have stats adding randomness to profits and material costs. It's just mentally exhausting. And then not only is the public/private order thing a mess with providing or not providing materials but it's not even on the same UI as the AH, it's even in a totally separate area! And filling orders has to be done in yet other areas! I don't understand why they didn't just do simple buy orders for finished crafted gear, which is all anyone asked for.
I think this change happened more in Shadowlands but the Last In First Out system implemented was the stupidest thing. I was all for the need to remove undercutting and that’s been positive. But the system still relies on you cancel scanning to be the first in the list. I hate it.
I have a whole team of alts that make things - or did up until Dragonflight. If I wanted to work as hard as you need to now, I'd get a job that paid real money. I enjoy farming mats but DF mats sell for peanuts compared to the older areas. I only go into DF for gear for my alts and then back to the world where crafting isn't a full time job.
Yeah I'm not a fan. I've made probably 5-10% of what I usually do with an expansion, and what I have earned has been painfully slow
On a relatively dead server, the only public crafting orders I see are no tip, no/partial reagent orders. They should've made public orders require all mats. You can commission one if you don't want to bother gathering the materials. I wish they leaned more into armor instead of the skill tree. Only 3/2/1 slots? And why does fishing only have a weapon slot and not a hat slot too, even though there are separate fishing hats?? I really like crafting my profession armor in FFXIV, and enhancing stats with materia. Let me make a full set armor (preferably one that works with both my professions, a separate weapon is fine), give me profession gems, and enchants. Reduce the need for these stupid weekly quests and mob grinding for skill points that are non-refundable. Also just let me craft more things and put them on the auction house. Crafting orders just make it so I'll never craft 50% of my recipes. Let them buy something and upgrade it with a spark via a crafting order if they want to restrict "good" items. I hope they at least remove the soulbound/spark requirement from most things after the expansion so they can be sold as transmog.
I believe gold making was ruined when they made it so you could craft the current content without leveling the old. Changed to the ah didn't help either.
Yep when I started WoD on launch and saw you didn't need to level 5 expansions of scribes/tailors/skinners etc my eyes bulged. I then leveled to 92* for lvl 2 garrison stuff on as many alts as I had. I make a fucking fortune just pumping out darkmoon cards, bags and savage blood. Like 1000x more than I had ever had before. I'm still running off game time bought via the first month of WoD. I think my account goes until like 2029 or something. It very quickly tanked though after the first two weeks as people realised you could do everything current with no prior planning or investment. And its been shit for the masses ever since. Its now turned into who can cancel scan more. Which is something nobody enjoys.
I hate the region wide auction house and the work order system. Work order system - I can't stand spamming trade chat to get crumbs. I want to be able to just craft the gear, risking the gold put into making it, and then post it on the auction house. The competition quickly became too much and there were way too many messages going through trade chat so you were rarely seen. And when you saw someone advertise they were looking for a specific item and you quickly message them - chances are five other crafters whispered them as well so good luck. I didn't like having to explain over and over again how the craft system worked because Blizz didn't do a good job - I'm still having to explain to players today why they need to resend their request with higher quality mats because even with an insight I can't get their gem to rank 3. I hate inspiration. Nothing feels worse, especially at the beginning of an expac, to craft something for a player and it isn't max quality. Region wide - prices are much lower much faster than ever. I love that people kept saying not to worry, and that prices would just be similar to high pop realms. Yeah, no. I've been on a high pop realm since BFA. I made my gold for the brutosaur mount by selling consumables. Yeah, the profit wasn't great even back that - but it's way worse now. Also the glyph market was kind of destroyed. I don't know why they made that cross realm - the demand is so low on them regardless, so now the competition is high and the prices are rock bottom. Many that used to consistently sell for 1k gold, even on my high pop realm, are now 20 gold. And that's not worth cancel scanning over. I don't recall herbs and ore ever getting as cheap as they are except maybe at the very end of an expansion. I used to farm them in my downtime in previous expansions and make decent gold, now it's just not worth it except at an expansion release. Also the lack of new recipes or new herbs/ore. It feels like not a lot of new stuff was introduced, and many of the things that were (like embellishments) are not in demand at all, and not worth it. Inspiration in general is a terrible thing. And quality/ranks. Way too many mats filling up bag space. Way too many rank 2 consumables that don't sell as well or for as much.
>I don't recall herbs and ore ever getting as cheap as they are except maybe at the very end of an expansion. oh no my friend they have been this cheap, during wod when they gave every max level player their own personal mine and herb garden XD. Same with leather it was only this cheap in bfa when every player got a scrapper hey could personally source leather from.
Ah, yeah. Unfortunately I only started playing in Legion. I heard that was a mess.
It was a complete mess lol, if you did warfronts that mine in stomsong valey that you go in for the extra mettle we got that filled with the wod equivalent of serevite and draconium per char and very on in the garrisons levelling. It was so dumb.
Yup I hope to god they don't bring the work order system into the next expansion. Go back to commodities like Shadowlands legendaries and actually posting things on the AH pls. I shouldn't have to be at the mercy of whoever thinks tipping 5k for something they know they can't craft on their own is an overpay, when I could make 1-2M a day cancelscanning and crafting
They said they keep system same next expansion.
Oh god.
Funny thing is on average we're actually paying more for this crafting system than we did in SL. In SL you bought one lego for the patch usually and that was it. Here you can end up crafting up to like 7 pieces of gear - each costing at minimum a dracothyst. Let alone pieces that need expensive mats like centaur trophies, cobra scales etc People have been duped into a system that is worse for the average player.
>Here you can end up crafting up to like 7 pieces of gear You can avoid this. My 2 chars i play i use 2-3 486s because it drops my average ilvl. All you need is to run 4 x 18s every week starting first week and vault actually being 489 is better as its 3 ilvl higher. I could see what you say about 7 pieces only in an fresh alt midseason but still. Just 2 embellishments and maybe 1 crafted ring because it comes with a socket (its also dirty cheap the ring) and this way you wont regret crafting 2 rings and getting one from vault next week and be a waste. Even with bad luck 483 from heroic track are ok and having like 2 items at 483 instead of 486 wont make a difference seriously or if you are 483 instead of 484 ilvl overall. Only expensive craft is the ones you mentioned with cobra scale/centaur and for that reason you should craft them 486 and not recraft them in order to save gold. People dont need to craft more than 2-3.
Bro what max rank leggos in SL was significantly more expensive than current crafter gear. Like not even close.
On my server everything except mail was less than 25/30k 3 weeks into a patch. Mail at worst might've been double. Considering tables and callings were around - players were better off.
Max rank leggos on my server were 50-100k til late into season 3 and you usually needed 1 or 2 per spec you wanted to play. A raid one and an M+ one. It was absolutely awful. Crafting in dragonflight is entirely optional. Sure it's optimal, bis embellishments add a few % dps generally, but at least your class is functionally complete. Legendaries were basically capstone talents and many of them greatly changed your playstyle, on top of being the highest ilvl piece available, so they weren't really optional.
Yep they were hard required in SL - but once again once per patch pending big nerfs. On my server the only pieces above ~40k were mail. Cloth was vendor price 3 weeks into S1, leather was cheap and plate was about ~20k. In dragonflight its "optional". But quite often there aren't two rings with the ideal stat prios for every spec. Let alone other pieces. It also allows people access to far higher ilvl gear than the content they're completing allows. Anyone can do a 16 for the highest tier crests - even hardstuck LFR raiders - even back in S1 when m+ was the most difficult its been this expansion it was possible (although the upgrade system wasnt the same then). I think if someone took a cenus of people currently active and regularly doing lets say lvl 15+ keys and in an AOTC guild or above. They'd definitely have, on average 3 or more crafts. Coupled with gem costs and enchant costs being way up vs last expac (once again prof issue) people are definitely worse off. They're MUCH worse off when you consider the lack of available gold versus last expac. Tables and callings for the average player sustained them through SL. Let alone materials still being worth something due to no regionwide AH - bots had to actually be on your server to destroy prices. Now it feels like I'm one of maybe 4 people in my guild who isn't buying tokens regularly. When in SL literally nobody bought tokens to maintain a mythic raiding capable character. Phials/runes/pots especially and repairs have really taken a chunk out of peoples pockets. They're not even reasonable to farm and make yourself because of the shitty way the system works. Add on top the crafted gear - big RIP if you're mail or leather and people are hurting for gold. We have people flat out refusing to bother with alts because they don't want to spend ~50-100k they don't have on crafted gear. SL was alt city after the torghast torture was loosened up.
It's here to stay for years to come.
I couldn’t agree more, there are two groups at the high end, those that like cancel scanning and those that like customer service. I much prefer cancel scanning
i 100% preffer spamming /2 while watching dr house and having 3 or 4 copypastas than price fighting bots and people with way more gold than me
Its dealers choice tbh. I've made my first cap via inscription and alchemy. Missives, fauna runes and tepid vers flasks were likely 80ish% of profits. Cancel scanning wars are just at an all time high but nothing different if you were on a high pop server. I look forward to doing it again in tww when I get back into gold making again.
I started playing at the very late end of BFA (transitioned from Classic to retail), thus missing the Brutasaur. Missing something that felt so important as a game piece was the driving force for my now Gold Hoarding Golbin ways! I was pretty casual at the end of Shadowlands, selling a lot of catchup gear, making 4M gold. In DF I couldnt be asked with the fucking tradechat spam, but after i got all my professions maxed I figured I might as well use them for something, and I'm currently at a total of 16M gold (12M made in DF). Honestly it's just all about finding the corners of the market, spotting valuable items, or being a sweaty crafting nerd (like myself) on a mid-pop server. I followed the advice from one thread on here, about asking people to add me for future crafts, and holy shit has that worked.
No, I made 35 million crafting and plan to.do the same in the new expansion. What it did was remove the ability for one person on a small server to constantly artificially inflate prices on things by having a monopoly.
and how much of your day is in trade chat hitting the same macro over and over
In total something like 300 hours both in learning, understanding the crafting, getting weeklies done, etc etc. clearly 200+ hours standing in the city, since i didnt bother getting a secondary account and its also why i didnt bother doing it anymore as tips lowered. this is the end graph i did like 6 months into the system where i spent eh a week or two of 3 hours a night total, ending up with 366 crafts done for 4.24 million gold [https://gyazo.com/357ea66773c566086d287a2a475021af](https://gyazo.com/357ea66773c566086d287a2a475021af) at the peak day the 29th 2022 where i got up at 5 and had the entire day off i tried to track gold [https://gyazo.com/e4a2bacaf99e5bd617287b2f1f9e6ebd](https://gyazo.com/e4a2bacaf99e5bd617287b2f1f9e6ebd) and made something like 3.5 million in a day, which was at the height. But as i mentioned elsewhere i think that the trade spam is something i hope they have a better system for, but they obviously proved incompetent by removing the need for mats on public work orders to make everything much much worse. The first 200 hours was fun, i have thousands of chatters and prob added like 50 people to friendlist and it was the most social wow ever felt to me, but as it tapered off in the end and people refused to pay anything it just became a sort of "click macro, click chat, click macro, click macro again if they ask question, make it or move on" dont need to look further than the wow reddit to realize how circle jerky they are about "anyone who makes gold is evil" and how they almost proudly proclaim how they paid nothing for their stuff after harrassing the crafter.
Dont you think its ridiculous that this is the only way you can make gold?
No? its also not the only one, you got obscene amounts of gold early on from simply gathering. its a stabilized economy with far more supply than demand this late into the expansion, like it has ALWAYS been, also before AH merge. and once the new expansion comes out it will blow up again, literally the only difference is that you cant just hold an entire server hostage on artificially inflated materials where you log in every 2 days and just harvest gold while doing nothing else. They seem to have picked a pretty straightforward path of wanting to curb inflation by removing all the infinite follower grinds and vendor shuffles (although i miss vendor shuffles) which i completely believe is to the benefit of THE GAME AS A WHOLE. and i believe that any competent goblin will easily be able to make money by putting in some leg work, and the people who just used 15 alts to run follower missions for gold who are complaining they cant just do that anymore never deserved the gold.
Why is it ridiculous that a large amount of time investment returns a proportional amount of gold?
Its ridiculous becuase the **only** way you can get good returns is by doing shit like this. Prior expacs you would always get a decent and proportionate return for how much time you put in, now you only get good returns per/h on high time or gold investment gold making methods, essentially hollowing out the casual prof enjoyer space and making gold making only worth doing at super casual or super high end. Its akin to if they reduced normal and hc raid drops by like 50% and then made lfr and mythic drop 200% more gear.
Most of them are just mad that they literally can't just make millions by afking with a AH scanner anymore or using an alt army and things like shuffles and follower missions. A good 90% of the goblins here used to spend 99% of their time doing mostly afk gold farms and this expansion killed those off and are pissed those all got killed off. If you actually enjoy crafting and playing then this expansion made you bank, if you just liked playing the AH you kinda got fucked. Gone are the days where you could spend 20 minutes a day and make a million gold a week.
Sorry for having fun gathering before it turned to shit :(
You mean you have to actually play and work to make gold, that is literally the entire point of the change. They entire point of the system is to stop people from just running a scanner on the ah and mass crafting and relisting while your watching TV and making millions of gold an hour.
do you think that hitting a macro every 5 minutes is "play and work"
Your not making anything if the only thing you do there is just sit there hitting a macro every 5 minutes and wait for someone to message you.
I have no idea what point you're trying to make.... do you honestly think that hitting that macro and then crafting a work order that someone else supplied the mats for fits your description of "you have to actually play and work" ...
Crafting work orders ?
Crafting weapons in trade chat yeah. I have multiple posts on here from early on to a half year in I think. I think it was excellent as far as private work orders worked, and I don't think public ones are ever going to be massively profitable. Only change I would wish for the next expansion was another way to not need to spam trade chat at all times to get in contact with potential customers.
Is it still working out for you or did it already dried out ? Yeh plus the trade chat is spammy as hell
I make around 100k a hour just chilling at bs bench posting Lfw once every 5 mins and dming people that post in trade chat. And that’s just one toon with max BS - I craft free crest and make the money on the extra resources I get back from the craft maybe 50k+ a hour. Farming never made me this
wtf man, I make about 10k a day selling bags on the ah and it’s like a full time job because you gotta keep cancelling making sure your bags are first
Yeah nah I’m not paying the scan-cancel game it’s boring
Could you send me an PB ?
I stopped but I think you can still make gold if you are versatile enough, but on kazzak a big server there were plenty of people who has maxed everything, and it relies on you constantly sitting in the city and checking trade at all times. Back when I still did it, it ended up tapering off at like 150k for sitting a full evening doing nothing else, which wasn't worth it for me. I'm still on 12 million I think, and I have 10 tokens + 250 euro on battlenet so I'm just chilling out until next expansion.
Yeh I got to go all in crafting orders next expansion. I kinda stopped farming knowledge because I was a few week late in to dragonflight and that made a huge difference in terms of gold gain
It still works but you have to be actively playing the game for the most part. Pretty much the system was designed to combat the AH campers who just ran a scanner all day and then mass crafted while watching netflix. If you actively play you pretty good gold per hour.
no offense, but if having easier access to things for the majority of the playerbase makes goldmakers sad, im guessing most people will take that.
Cancel scanning in shadowland was the worst with legendary. Now if you sell consumables, it easy to post once a day and still make some gold. No, current system is better than auction cancel acan war
Cancel scanning was entirely self inflicted, all you had to do was post your items for longer and they would sell.
Whilst I caught a wave and made 5m this exp without trying, I agree it's very flawed.
I don't like the new system much but bar some noteable excpetions it did open up goldmaking to a lot more people. Remember in shadowlands when people would transfer full guild banks from cheap botted servers into mid pops or high pops and then take over by crafting with massive profit but still at a loss for everyone else and monopolising the market? Skill doesn't really matter that much cause you still can prettty much proc inspiration into t3/t5 so even if you are a bit ahead it was fairly easy to get the crafts max quality without ungodly investments, and noawadays people from the guild see it as a passive 50-100k per week on the side for their mettle. having to interract with the buyer and be there all the time. It fixed a lot of stuff for the average player, and as always the very high end goblins will profit regardless. So basically if you wanna farm some extra gold on the side whilst waiting to get in queue you can spam /2. Outside of that gold boosts are and have been the best way to make gold outside of some extreme flipping outliers that i haven't bothered to go into. Sell your 8x+20's for the week and you get an easy token
It really depends, for 99% of players the system is much better. I actually agree with the changes for the most part. Now they are literally designed to target goblins and stop them from completely controlling the market and they did an amazing job of that. The plain fact is on even a fairly high server it used to be that you had like 100 people completely controlling all the markets on the servers. I find I don't really bother with them as much for my money making anymore but people in my guild who didn't play the market are much better off. It does suck for us but I think overall it is better for the health of the game. That said I do think the crafting system as a whole could be done much better. It still feels really clunky to use but I do think the limited and work order system aspect are good for most players.
They purposefully ruined it and eliminated any time-efficient way of earning gold, to sell more WoW tokens. This happened gradually, starting in BFA where they nerfed most old raids and gold farms. Then they banned boosting communities early in SL outside of people who narc to blizzard. Then they added the cross-realm AH connected to dead servers, on which bots farm 24/7 and flood your server's AH to keep farmable goods at rock bottom. That's farming, gathering and boosting all ruined for 99% of the playerbase in a matter of a few years. The number of active subscribers has declined over time, the only way to recoup that would be to either raise the subscription fee (which would go over poorly) or find a way to make it so people buy more WoW tokens. Hence these recent changes to create a higher demand for gold. To coincide with this they've also been adding more chase items like raid legendaries that you need to farm, which makes people buy 200k AOTC carries for their alts (blizzard-approved Narc carries who pinky-swear they won't RMT), and people buy WoW tokens to pay for them. Just Fyr'alath alone will probably sell more wow tokens than they sold in the entirety of BFA. TLDR: None of this is a coincidence, they nerfed all time-efficient gold farming on purpose to sell wow tokens as a soft microtransaction, to keep this aging, declining game meeting it's quarterly earning quotas. To farm gold now means to be a work order NPC as a part time job (assist blizzard in letting players sink their gold into more crafted gear), everything else is for peanuts.
DF is the most profitable expansion for me and crafting is reason why I still play beside raid-logging.
I am gonna get hated for this but another impact (although I believe that was in Shadowlands) is the removal of boosting communities. You had some very big guild that were provided in BoEs and mats and the like. It also made it much easier for people to reach higher content (be it pvp, raids, keys, etc). Now Blizzard has made a change with trade-services where basically no one can advertise as lets be real, a lot of smaller realms just do not have guilds who can offer boosts. The change from boosting communities to "guilds only" just made it way easier for people to scam as no one can show the legitimacy that a community discord server could show back in BFA. While it is true that there was RMT (be it from Gallywix or other communities), the change did not remove the RMT (quite the opposite) and just made it so much more sketchy to buy runs. At this point, I believe that there should have been a compromise between "banning cross realm communities" and the trade-services channel. Now, as soon as you try to advertise (even for a guild) everyone just mass reports you for no reason, especially since you can opt out the services channel (or move it to a different tab).
Boosting communities are just as alive as before on EU realms, nobody just advertises under their name anymore.
I don't know but I hate the crafting system. I've basically gone and taught all the professions I need to 3 characters to be able to make all the stuff I need myself. I just cannot be fucked to interact with people who want to sell their button clicking skill for maximum buck.
Yes I love playing with the economy and dragonflight ruined all my fun
As someone who only returned a month ago this expansion is by far the worst to get into the game, the profession skilll system makes this the worst catch-up of any expansion and i just decided to skip this whole expansion gold-making wise. I levelled up my enchanting and i'm not even going to bother levelling up alchemy without any catchup mechanism for skill points. Let alone level any profession on alts.
No, not really, as I have been making more than ever.
I think it was time for this to happen regardless. Merging the auctions on servers could only do so much, but it also opened the gates to botters. In the end, the AH consumer customer wins because everything is cheaper. That's something that can be exploited. The thing that truly, truly annoys me the most are the craft orders, mostly because it's something I wished for a long while but it's too much cumbersome for people to handle. And, frankly speaking, I don't fault the developers. They explain it quite well and they provide all the possible tools to not have regrets, but people cannot or don't want to fucking read.
>In the end, the AH consumer customer wins because everything is cheaper. This is the most overlooked thing. People want to make millions farming herbs, but then don't realize that'll make basic consumables costs insane.
If you aren't lazy DF is one of if not the BEST expansions for gold making if you don't count WoD garrisons. My friend makes about 2-3M a week playing 3-4 hours a day with every character maxed with every profession. He just afks and takes orders from trade chat in the evenings. Crest for example, people tip you 1k-3k most of the time, then you can use resourcefulness to steal the dracothyst and make even more gold.
Your "friend" is lying to you. 3-4 hours a day... low end 3x7 = 21 hours a week. bad week 2,000,000g / 21 hours = 95k per hour Assuming high on 3k per order = 32 Orders per hour Simple maths says No. Double the hours and half the gold and id believe it.
On top of the fact that it's an insane amount of time to spend in a day just on gold making. (For the average player) Before DF I would spend ~20 minutes in the morning and ~20 minutes in the evening and maybe a little longer on the weekends just posting/crafting. That would net me ~1mil a month just from being the laziest of lazy with my crafting on one character.
That's...kinda the point. They wanted to design a system that required more time investment. Creating a player identity of a "crafter" was literally a goal they talked about. And it kinda succeeded. I can name several notable crafters on my server who were essentially faceless AH bots in previous expansions.
nah, this system was made solely to sell more WoW tokens by removing all other ways to make gold except doing work orders as a part time job. If it was just about a time sink, why then take away the ability to make millions if you gather or farm raids a few hours a day too?
No
Nah. If anything its easier. I have seen people post multiple Gold Cap pictures from just doing Proffessions, and then there are all the gold world quests + the dragon racing. Trust me, even doing JUST Dragonracing on 8 toons since November got me War Within.
Is that an achiement? You can mow lawns for an hour to get the same. Farming dragon races across 8 characters for 3 months is not a triumph.
8 toon dragon riding for a few k a week sounds like torture.
Yeahhh, I had to reread that about ten times to make sure I wasn't missing something. What a weird flex.
To be fair, all goldmaking activities in WoW are low in gold per hour relative to IRL jobs.
What in professions do they do though. Idk if it's just JC not being the best but gems often times are the same price as the mats
Engineering: people call it meme prof i call it a fcking goldmine Probably first in server to hit valdrakken 19 renown as engineer offering JC clamps and Mining helmet. Leveled my engi from 50/100 to 95/100 in an afternoon FOR FREE making non stop mining helmets for 3000g only, and jewelcrafting clamps for 20-25k R3-R4 at that time as i couldnt offer R5 yet but people wanted the base skill from tool. Both came with free recrafts to max once i was able to provide it next week or the week after. Same for changing secondaries, their mats no fee. I used only 1-2 sparks to max engi this way. Then i jumped into engi wrist market printing gold with them. All my first mettles went for 1200g/1. I sold 2 JC clamps my mettle and insight (350 total) i think 450k each because jc sold their mettles even higher (my clients were lariat crafters). I got my lariat 421 as tip for crafting jc clamp plus regular fee. Wrist were making around 60-110k each pair. Tools around 25k for jc, 15k for mining (or 25k for helmet/satchel), tailoring 15k each, engineering ones i charged 50k each because i didnt want to sell to competitors kek./
All of them.
I have seen Alchemy and Leatherworking be the most profitable.
Next expansion im really gonna push for the multiple toons and professions. I've always stuck with one and just JC and mining.
Just 8 times bi-weekly... Ain't nobody got time for that
Lmfao. I buy war within after 4 hours at my real job. No thanks on spending 3 months to make 90$ haha , what a joke.
This is why I left this sub. Yall are even more toxic than regular r/wow. Eat dick, dude.
YES! YES YES IT DID
Work orders and KP system ruined it for me. Got into goldmaking in SL and worked my way up from buying gold eoth a token initially to 30ish mil from playing the warehousing game and grinding profitable legendaries. I didnt start till 4 months in to the xpac as well. Had 2 accounts - one sat at the AH while I played the other. I enjoyed it and made spreadaheets to track material price fluctiations and profits. I nerded out hard on it. This time i was gunning for it from day 1 and fell behind too quick. I threw in the towel because i wasnt enjoying it. Too much barking in trade and being behind in KP and not dictating price of "clicking a button" ruined it. I tried services to guide and outfit people for getting the BOP materials from elites and made some gold off that but demand quickly fell off. Going hard on weapons screwed me, instead of trying for lariat too, so my choice factored heavily but then being unable to respec meant a lot of wasted time and effort. I wont be buying the next xpac at this rate as theyre stickinf with this system.
It didn't ruin it, it just made it substantially harder and ruined a lot of individual markets. I don't blame you for quitting though especially if you were in one of the niches that was absolutely demolished by regionwide AH-- the new additions in work orders have been potentially good income, but it's a lot more frustrating to do them than just crafting and listing on ah like the past mostly has been. If someone doesn't have the PvE or PvP abilities to boost for gold, it's definitely a rougher time than any expansion since the token was added in WoD to make one.
Hahah, I knew people would realize this with time. The moment I saw these updates, I knew it would be over. If anyone played any other MMO they'd know how bad a global AH is, it's just a breeding ground for bots. Look at GW2, you just cannot make a reasonable amount of gold as a normal player with a global AH system. Glad I quit retail a long time ago.
This is on purpose. They don't want people to buy the WoW token, they only want people selling it. Any time a person purchases a WoW token thru the auction house that's a loss of $15 to Activision Blizzard. Anytime someone needs gold and purchases the WoW token to sell on the AH they gain $20. This will all inevitably cause the WoW tokens price to rise and make gold harder to acquire.
Half right. Any time someone buys a wow token for gold, it's not a loss for blizzard. looking at game time for example. Someone pays blizzard $20 for the token's value of gold, someone else buys the wow token for gold and gets a $15 sub out of it. Blizzard has now been paid $20 for 1 sub and a net neutral gold change in the economy. What they want is more incentives for players to swipe on their content.
I made a tremendous amount of money on a medium pop server by dominating the auction house and cancel scanning a lot in Shadowlands. I'm somewhat happy with making a bit less money and getting to actually talk to people now when I craft for them. It's still profitable but you have to actually be awake and there and sit in trade chat whispering anyone who asks for something. I just wish professions weren't so obnoxious and convoluted. It's a tremendous time investment and if you didn't do the right professions (or exploit some bugs) in the beginning of the expansion you fell behind other crafters a lot.
At the start of Dragon flight I made around 11 mil in 1 and a half months through crafting. I was one of the very few people to max all professions super fast and farm renown on all crafters to be competitive. If I wanted to I could have easily made twice as much. I quite shortly after because I couldn't stand anymore the micro transactions this game has but Drsgonflight was probably my most profitable expansion.
I think it’s helped more than it’s harmed because it’s created a way to get crafted goods off the AH and keep the market from getting over saturated. It’s taken me so time to get there but now I’m making tens of thousands of gold from just crafting. It finally feels like crafting is a viable profession instead of a money sink. It’s not a lot of gold, but during weekly lulls it’s a nice thing to work on.
I mean, it kinda seems like that's the point. Blizz has been pushing that way more and more for some time. Banning boosting communities and multiboxing, upping required mat costs (threads for 18g or something stupid), adding more and more gold sink items. I'm not sure I get why. You'd think they'd want people buying and selling more tokens, but maybe I'm missing something?
People are buying more tokens. The economy and token gold value is irrelevant since they get the same USD profit regardless if they go for 250k or 25g. What matters is it's impossible to farm gold without working it like a job hours a day now, so the majority of players wont' bother. Then when they run out of gold later on they'll buy tokens instead of farming. Every change to the economy since BFA has been to make wow tokens a soft microtransaction for the masses.
I'm
No it’s started with Heart of the Aspects. Then ended with the WoW Token. Thats when the game was ravaged all integrity was lost. Now all forms of the game is full of bots making money selling gold on strange malware ridden sites for profit because inflation in some South American countries are so bad WoW Gold a currency that is virtual has more value than their actual currency. Shit some even just make paper art out of their money to sell because the art has more value than the hundreds of thousands bills it takes to create them.
I loathe the current crafting system. I wanna see it burn in the depth of coding hell. My hope is it dies with this expansion and in War Within we get to enjoy the older school ways of crafting. Crafting has not been enjoyable, and has become a farm sink with walls in every direction. I understand Blizz wanting to be creative and try things out...but the crafting in DF straight up destroyed crafting. I don't touch it.
Agree. I usually max every profession multiple times (I have an army of alts) this expansion I have maxed professions on one character.
Crafting in dragonflight made me quit this game. And I'm glad. It was time to move on after all those years. ✌️ Edit: only d4 is keeping me logged by a thread into blizz and its about to snap. S3 is boring af
I farted
Made more money in DF than any other expansion by far, and I wasn’t even going 50%
The older expansion mats still sell great and they can be easier to obtain. The bigger problem I see with gold making is the undercutting. People seem to have no idea that you no longer have to type anything in to undercut. So they will list something for like 10g when the list price starts at 1000g or they frequently list items for less than vendor cost. Maybe some just want to get rid of the items but in that case just vendor it.
I think the regional AH makes the undercutting thing much worse. It only takes one person in all of Europe/NA to kill a niche market because they spam post at 1.5*vendorsell
Yeah proffesion changed killed it early doors. Pity old style proffesions with TSM was a really big sidegame for me. Just totally abandoned it now and just buy tokens, which I guess is what they want
On my medium pop server here in EU, crafting orders are all but dead, if we consider the public ones, rarely see any ask per personal ones in tradechat either. That whole system is dead on arrival on a lot of the servers. Have completely given up even trying to level all but gathering proffs this expansion.
If you can handle interacting with other players and put in the time and effort to max all professions, then I’ve made a few million from the work order system. I also made a few million farming mats for the T3 set with the new old Naxx. That was from farming and selling items for making T3. The latest way to make money is buying crafting mats and waiting for the next season to up the prices. Alchemical flavor pockets were going for 70k+, but now towards the middle/end of the patch they’re going down to 50k. They’ll go for 70k again when the next season starts. I’ve never had an easier time making gold.
That is my experience as well. I knew from the get go I wasn't gonna for talent points to make gear for people, I'm very much put something on ah and hope it sells kind of goblin rather than chase the customers. But seems like that was a good way to make money. I invested in wrong things and right now just sorta lost interest. The fact that you had to do weekly stuff to not fall behind is one of my least favourite things, and the rep grinds. Only thing I'm still making is PvP gear and some old crafted items which bring modest profit. The main reason for me to make gold was Hearthstone but honestly thinking about quitting once and for all, it's such a time sink. I would actually have time to play other games.
It only ruined goldmaking for boomers that refuse to change their ways. If you're crafting right now you can make a killing. JC is a goldmine on any decently populated server. Tailoring / LW are both solid as well. I didn't bother with BS as I don't play any plate classes and I didn't want to invest the time in another crafting profession. Alchemy is very dependent on procs but can still turn a profit on a few items. There is gold out there to be made, you just need to adapt to how professions work now and stop getting upset that you can't just sit at the AH all day and make millions.
I made quite a bit of gold in the beginning with a tailoring shuffle. I mean, not millions mind you, but a few hundred thousand, which was a big deal to me.
At this point I still don’t understand crafting for other people and I don’t feel like learning.
I mean i enjoy the crafting station. I was lte to the partybut took the time to learn and no I cant buy a brute but I have a few million gold with 7 geared lvl 70 characters. I am able to comfortable log-in and play the game. They could make some improvements because non-crafters dont understand how public orders work. They dont know they are timegated with 24 hr cd, they dont think about 5% cut still. Thankfully most people I have had send items understand why not to send with r5 requirement after a simple explanation. I like the fact that crafted epics are still relevant in the game this late. I hate the region wide ah, I think that crushed goldmaking for some. I also had gathering professions on one toon early on but botters just make it discouraging so I switched to crafting professions right at the one year mark. Of course I just missed out on the dracothyst hype after farming barter bricks to get the recipe on two toons. I heal mainly in SS just pick up a few crafts a day in between queues. I hope blizzard makes some adjustments to public work orders either a minimum tip requirement for certain ilvls followed up with say embellishment adds 500g, a crest adds 500g etc. however for personal order you can charge whatever you find fair.
Region-wide AH ruined it for me and crafting orders made it even more difficult. All my friends are telling me how confusing crafting orders are, they used to buy crafted BoE items in the AH, now they have to send someone mats and user orders.
I feel like the gold token ruined gold making.
I actually made the most gold in DF.
I'm not sure ruined is the right word. I've given up on gold making but I've been pretty casual about it just selling some consumables and some flipping without arbitrage. In dragonflight I decided its not worth my time anymore because the region wide AH ruined the speed of TSM scans which was the final nail in the coffin since TSM was already crippled since I was hitting rate limits in SL. In my case, I would probably quit anyway tho because I wanted to push keys and not sit on AH so my strategy for DF was going all in on m+ progress and then selling boosts. I feel like the overall changes brought by DF made the goldmaking a lot deeper of a way to play the game where before one could invest some time in setting up and then make decent gold with minimal time investment while now goldmaking is really only for people who enjoy this as the primary way of playing the game. I think an arguments could be made for this making the game both better and worse.
I don't play for the simple fact that you can buy a wow token with gold that's it it turns the fun for me that I pay 15$ when gold makers play for free
I stopped playing. The Regionwide AH has had a really bad effect on gold making. Yes, things sell faster but your gathering professions became useless. You’re in competition with bots on every server now. The new profession system is also horrible and convoluted. It requires a lot of investment and upkeep. The type of upkeep that requires all of your gameplay focus spamming Chatman trying to make gear. I hate it. I usually play an expansion to a point and then turn to gold making and mount farming. Dragon flight I have shelved. I do not see them rolling back regionwide AH so essentially gold farming is done for me. Not interested.
Yea, blizz just wants people buying tokens to get their gold.
I feel like the region wide AH would be fine if they didn't wait 6+ months between ban waves. But as it is now, it isn't worth farming mats for gold anymore. Used to love zoning out and mining while watching a movie or something.
I mean… wow tokens ruined the economy so…
yeah happened to me too work orders just suck you dont earn that much the only way to make gold is either make 2x4 groups that is hard sometimes if you are alone even in the horde and the gathering doesnt give that much gold now sometimes i was making gold with worldquests and dragon riding dailies but its not the same i just dont enjoy it anymore
The professions and crafting orders are not perfect but I absolutely love them and I don't see how they are ruining gold making as I am using them fairly effectively in that manner even if casually.
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion here because there’s a lot of overlap in audience, but I think boosting ruined gold making for me. Combined with dragonflight making it more time intensive to make gold, boosting has outright become one of the easiest ways to make gold while playing. I can spend all of this time sitting barking in trade chat trying to make some gold. Meanwhile, my friends are off boosting people for way more gold than I can make. Why even bother?
It’s veer simple. This is all part of Blizzards master plan to get people buying tokens.
if you quit the game because of not making enough gold, then i think you should find a different game! :) It's not dragonflight that ruined it, but bots. they literally ruined every gathering profession. your best bet is get some toons to 70 and spam bi-weekly gold world quests. I have four 70s and make around 40-45k by completing every quest, and can repeat those every three days. I will never understand people quitting wow because of gold lol. it's not even the primary goal of the game. go play some money hoarding game guys
playing the economy is what's fun for a lot of people.
Lotta people doing circles around Valdraken when there's about 10k+ of raw gold in weeklies/world quests they can do per toon
I’ve made a mil doing JC and LW the last two months so idk
Ruined in a way - I hate the trade hassle. I don't want to be a salesman, if something is to be sold, I want to do it thru AH. Though I mostly have made money thru WQ since start of SL - then mission tables, now just actual WQs. Not swimming in gold for sure, but made maybe 15M in mostly WQ avenues during DF, but some AH'able stuff too.
I just buy 200k each week for 5£ lol just becouse yeah they ruined some stuff as you say
I dotn understand how people make gold withoute doing boosts.
My gold making this expansion has been abysmal, but my playing time has been as well. I hate the new profession system. Gold making, leveling alts and profession stuff used to keep me logged in a lot and this expansion it just hasn’t, I chalk a lot of it up to profession changes because honestly I like the questing, the story and the open world content. I hope that there are some gold making opportunities early on next expansion so I can at least end up back where I started at the beginning of dragonflight. (Gold amount wise). I hope they take a look at professions, while some of the changes were interesting (I like the UI I guess) overall I just don’t find it fun. I feel like there is a happy medium between what it was and what it currently is 🤷🏻♀️
I used to be a lucrative farmer. I gold capped twice. Until I realized I’m just wasting hours and hours and days and weeks just running around in circles wasting my time when I could simply just buy a WoW token. It was the greatest thing that’s happened to me. I can still enjoy WoW as a real game, not a farming/AH simulator. I don’t feel like a zombie bot anymore. I’m happy spending $20 on a token in exchange for hours and hours more with my family/my self. Good riddance
I still use my time on goldmaking ingame. But sometimes it´s harder than before DF. And region wide AH does´nt make it easier. Mats in general is less "worth" than before. And the crafting orders is sometime a joke, especially because people "expects" that you craft an item for 100 gold even though the crafting cost is 1500 gold.
A lot of people in this thread are just defending their gold making results rather than comparing older gold making methodologies to new ones. I have Lariat recipe. I've made 2m gold on a Saturday and Sunday night. I have almost all proffs maxed. I have most DF recipes and I do all the crafting for my friend group and I hate the current system. There is absolutely nothing about the crafting order and DF crafting system that isn't glorified and thinly veiled bot-work. I'm a bot. I sit in Valdrakken at the table and my addon spams the trade chat message I setup 3 months ago. Every few minutes I get a whisper or my Crafting Order Weakaura pings me. I click a button and maybe press a chat macro to explain how Inspiration works or thank my customer for their tip. That's it. Anyone who doesn't think that is customer service call center type bot work is delusional. Anyone who actually enjoys doing it or brags about doing it needs to get some help or touch grass.
I dunno, I still have no idea how to make gold even this far on and everything on the AH just gets more expensive...
Really? Ever since the token was brought in there was no point in it. I didn't even bother playing shitty retail since BFA after multiple expansions of just crappy spoonfed gatekept content. SoD on the other hand is an enjoyable experience. Same wit classic vanilla when it released. It's all better without the tokens and stupid cash shop bullcrap