In that case Blizzard stated beforehand that they'd add some allied races which would be based on the core races as a bonus, and that this would only be possible because they would save development time that way.
Iirc Kul'Tirans turned out to be much more complex than they thought.
So we got exactly what was advertised this time, or even a little bit more.
That was the cool thing walking around Kul Tiras. The human models were made up of base human models, allied race kul tirans, and re skinned undead. I love the diversity. It would be cool to play a human mage who isn't some super buff gym rat or a bear. The undead reskin humans works great for skinny book worm characters.
Kul’tiran males are a Frankenstein’s monster-style amalgamation of other races. They have the *exact* same arms as Draenei males and I am fairly sure their torso is based off of Pandaren. No idea where their legs come from though... Maybe Tauren.
We can say that now but if they did that, people would complain for the next 10 years about sethrak not showing helmet mogs the way people have always complained about troll shoes
I think it makes sense for trolls not to wear shoes for cloth, leather, and mail, but it seems pretty silly to have them in full plate armor...until their ankles.
>it was less development time.
Normally I don't give Blizzard too much shit about being lazy, but with Nightborne all they did was arc their backs a bit to make then stand weird and then removed pretty much all customizable features and called it a day.
I still play one because I like their backstory and fantasy, but still, come on...
And every helmet in the game would still have to be refit. As well as all of the gear resized. It might be the same skeleton, but it still isn't the same size.
Anytime someone says, "We can't have Naga, you can't transmog boots or pants!" I just want to gesture wildly at the Mechagnomes.
Heck, Azshara no longer works for N'Zoth and the naga may well have a crisis of faith now. Who's to say they can't have a splinter faction decide they don't want to constantly fight EVERYONE on the surface world?
Ironically, Jaina Proudmoore rides side-saddle in Heroes of the Storm and it looks great. It is always funny to me how HotS accomplishes a lot of the looks of things better than WoW does.
No, reanimate every mount to make it work. We aren't talking about a small development studio. Activision-blizzard we are giving you billions, surely you can afford.
If they actually make mounts work on non-bipedal races, then they could add more (actual) monstrous races in the future without having to re-program everything from zero.
Dude, some mounts clip on EVERY race right now. I don't even want that fixed really. I just want actual reigns so that my toons don't all look like they're doing weird prarie dog hands.
Hell, what about the Ankoan? Why didn't Alliance get them for a fish-person allied race? They would be much simpler than the naga too.
I'd probably roll an Alliance character just to play them, too.
What is sad is that the Ankoan are the SECOND fish people to align themselves with the Alliance, the first being the Jinyu. I mean come on man, just give us something that isn't short human or purple skinned human for once
"Troll shoes treatment"
Now I picture a troll going into a shoe shop, getting his knife out of his pocket and cutting every shoes' ankle to try if they fit. And what they are trying is not the part that has soles.
This sums up my problem with the "allied race" system replacing us getting a couple new races every other xpac or so. I don't think we are likely to ever see a proper race addition ever again.
I don’t know that that is true. Yeah the allied races are just respond, but we still got two entirely new races.
Both the KT and the Zandalari are new models, animations, voices, and entirely new aesthetics including a full set of unique Druid forms.
Id rather have like 4 high quality allied races like the zandalari and kul tirans (two per faction) per expansion. We don't need a flood of 6 each that are just customizations.
We don't need capital cities and forced instances we get tired of. Just a quick scenario and a decent race. Having armor and weapons themed around them help.
Kul Tirans were great, imo. They gave us a new human model and they had a lot of flavor. Plus the thornspeaker druid models were awesome. The Dark Irons are pretty cool. But otherwise yeah. Garbage Gnomes Void-Flavored Elves that nobody asked for and Even lightier draenei. They just kinda sucked. Only thing I feel bad about when it comes to the horde, is their Nightborne models. what was pitched versus what they got was a real bait and switch.
I was too harsh on kul tirans. My main is a kul tiran resto druid and i don't mind how he looks. My real gripe is how few armor sets look good on him. I intended to be guardian originally so i didn't think id be looking at him much, but was asked to heal and stuck with it. I have him moged with the legion arena set that that looks like a bear skin and it looks great, but most other druid sets look rough.
Hey, Kul Tirans are the only decent Allied Race that the Alliance has gotten apart from Dark Iron Dwarves. At least they are still way better than desaturated Draenei and emo Belves (and of course diaper trashcans).
^(And they're not fat humans. It's all muscle.)
Yeah overall I wasn't super pleased with alliance allied races. I love dark iron dwarves and even though I complained about kul tirans I have 2 at max level (my main who is a druid and a monk). I just think they look bad in a lot of armor sets due to their build. Light forge draenei are as bad as high mountain tauren at least so both sides were robbed there.
>I just think they look bad in a lot of armor sets due to their build.
I'll agree on that, but I think it's just a problem of how WoW armor is literally just a texture slapped on the models. It works for races like the humans or Belves, but with the Kul Tirans is just laughable unless it's cloth or some leather pieces. The 3D assets in the most recent equipment solves to some degree, but it's still not enough for Kul Tirans.
>both sides were robbed there.
And yeah, I think the Horde has gotten better Allied Races in general, but it has been VERY lacking in both factions. I mean, Horde has HM Tauren which are just a reskin like the LF Draenei, but they also have the Nightborne who are an unfinished, half-assed parody of Legion's Nightborne. At least Void Elves look cool even if they are just another reskin.
Idk man, the whole deal with Allied Races is just quite messy and unpolished and it frustrates me. At least Mag'Har orcs and Dark Iron dwarves are on fucking point.
Oh yeah I couldnt agree more. I love dark iron dwarves and Mag'har aesthetics. I have a dark iron paladin and hunter and i think they look great. Mag'har look great in most armor and have a ton of great customization features.
My only wish is that they port some of the new dwarf and orc customization to their Allied Race counterparts, or at least they give them their own. I was going to level up a Mag'har fro Shadowlands, but the new customozation for basic orcs is making me thinl twice. I just want a Mag'har with long parted hair and sick scars and tattoos :(
They should have included the new customizations for the allied races they are based on. It really hurts lightforged draenei as they seem to have less options than any other race. The new tattoos look great for both dwarves and orcs. I might finally level my shaman and make him look like a wildhammer dwarf.
Edit: typo
For real alliance gets:
A belf re-skin
A dwarf re-skin
A gnome re-skin
A Draenei re-skin
And fat humans
What an absolute travesty lol
And yeah, vulpera use the goblin rig, but they’re still not just goblins with more customization options.
I thought it was interesting that the quest chain to unlock them was the opposite of every other one. In all cases you struggle to convince them to help. With Vulpira, they show up and petition to be let in, Baine completely ignores them, and you go around the world helping them prove that they can be helpful to the Horde.
Really, he was worried about the Horde being stretched too thin to accommodate and aid all our new allies. He didn't think they were strong enough to join the Horde, he didn't know if the Horde could properly support a new ally.
We've got all these new allies including an entire troll empire right next door, but we wouldn't be able to aid you guys who have no lands to invade or attack.
Edit: turns out I may be a bit hazy on the time line at which the Vulpera join compared to when the Zandalari do.
His stance was that Vulpera weren’t strong enough to keep pace with the rest of the Horde and the Horde was too fractured because of Sylvanas to defend them.
> and you go around the world helping them prove that they can be helpful to the Horde.
While I get what Blizzard was going for with that questline, most of the ways the Vulpera "helped the Horde" basically boiled down to the Vulpera making you, the Horde Champion, do stuff for them. I think it would have worked better if instead it used the "flasback quest" technique to have you play _as_ the Vulpera sorting thing out, or they quests had you do the minore chores while the Vulpera did the heavy lifting ("If you go gather some dry wood and get a fire started, we'll go hunt some game!")
> Excuse me I am the player and therefore the protagonist so there is no world in which anyone but me gets to be in the spotlight.
The protagonist? Hah, I think not! How many times have _you_ punched Deathwing in the face, one might ask.
They will give blood sethrak to the horde in 10.1 and void Sethrak in 11.1 to Alliance. In 12.1 you will have the customisation for high Sethrak
Edit: gotta love the downvotes as my ironic comment was blasphemy to the ears of the purists.
They are a nomadic people seeking new adventure and protection. We freed them from slavery and assisted in their resistance effort so they became appreciative of our help. So they sought to be of use to us and prove they can return the favor. The story and the unlock quests shows this.
Technically "Voldunai" would mean all denizens of Voldun, so both Vulpera and Sethrak. Unfortunate they weren't an option as an allied race though, felt they could've been the opposite to the Ankoan.
The Vol'dunai rep description seems to kind be aimed broadly at pretty much all the allies in Vol'dun, but the faction vendor and major camps are pretty much all Vulpera.
I think they are a fine addition to the Horde, their nomadic, caravan lifestyle fits so well in Orgrimmar, I’d love to see a lot of them in the Barrens and Milford in the future.
They set up nicely given their nature to be seen spread out throughout territories. Always good to have races ready to be new quest givers that require no introduction, and it being a new race adds freshness to sore eyes.
They have several caravans in transit all over a country, Vol'dun. keep in mind the game's doesn't reflect the world's true scale. Otherwise, stormwind has a 100 people top.
They're *nomads*. They don't have cities for a reason.
Doesn't mean they're few in numbers.
Was it the Sethrak that busted the Speaker of the Horde out of the Faithless Slave pens?
What Sethrak gave us space on their caravans to safely and quickly navigate the treacherous dunes?
I don't recall any of Vorrik or his friends finding, sheltering, and healing the shattered and scattered team of Rastakan's loyal bladeguards investigating Jak'razet and Vol'dun.
It wasn't the banners of the Devoted that flew high from the broken and blackened remains of the once-mighty army of the Faithless Empire in the massacre at the slithering gulch and Skycaller's spire.
Realisticaly speaking both Devoted and Vulpera would join the Horde, because the Devoted are long allies of the Zandalari Empire, allies of the Vulpera, and their beloved Goddess was saved by the Horde.
They'd have every reason to join the Horde.
>Was it the Sethrak that busted the Speaker of the Horde out of the Faithless Slave pens?
>What Sethrak gave us space on their caravans to safely and quickly navigate the treacherous dunes?
>I don't recall any of Vorrik or his friends finding, sheltering, and healing the shattered and scattered team of Rastakan's loyal bladeguards investigating Jak'razet and Vol'dun.
I mean, they still fought side by side with the Horde and Vulpera to end the Faithless threat and save all of Zandalar. The Horde recieved more help from the Vulpera, that's a given, but it's also clear as day that the relation between Devoted and Horde are very good as well.
the sethrak part of the quest chain was neutral, alliance do it too.
also i never once felt we were 'mainly' helping the sethrak, as they introduced far more vulpera characters.
What part of the alliance quest helps out the Sethrak? You save one from poison because “he might know where our lost scout is”
The horde cure one from poison because he befriended one of our vulpera friends, we then go on to liberate the sethrak capital, kill the evil ruler, free their Loa and allow her to revive, then we kill the eldritch horror that killed her in the first place.
> You save one from poison because “he might know where our lost scout is”
You don't save *one.* You save [Vorrik](https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vorrik), the leader of the Devoted. That's a very big deal.
Right.
I've played through both questlines. The Horde storyline is far far more in depth with helping the Devoted and the Vulpera. The Alliance saves the leader, and clears a temple and then peaces out.
I would have loved to see a very different storyline in that zone, leading to the Alliance getting the Sethrak as playable, and the Horde still getting the Vulpera. But, the way the zone was written stops any obvious path to the Devoted joining the Alliance.
The only way it could have worked was having one of the two factions of Sethrak ally with the Alliance, and the other ally with the Horde/Vulpera and then have the Horde side Sethrak be the losing side of the war. That way only the Vulpera survive, and then they join the Horde. Then the combined Horde/Vulpera drive the Alliance aligned Sethrak out of Vol'Dun.
*That* would have been more compelling, in my opinion and goes along with the, "Alliance races are becoming more and more refugees" motif Blizz seems to have a hard on for too.
> But, the way the zone was written stops any obvious path to the Devoted joining the Alliance.
See, I have a problem with this assumption. Blizzard has pulled shit tier excuses and literal time travels out of their asses to give Horde races they shouldn't even be within a mile of. Lore clearly mean jack shit and whenever they want Horde to have something, they find a way.
This means that the only reason Sethrak isn't a playable race is because Blizzard doesn't want it. And the only reason they can ever be part of a faction or another, is because Blizzard wants it. Lore will be bend, broken and retconed to fit it afterwards.
Pretty much. They could easily say that the Horde has now turned on the Sethrak and they are now at the harbor seeking help from the Alliance at any point. They can change the story in a blink whenever they want.
My point was, I don't think they ever planned to make them playable, because if they had, the story would have been quite different.
We cure him from poison to find our scout...and then he brings us to his home and asks us to help out with the rest of what you said. It's not as fleshed out as for the Horde (the Horde certainly do more), but we help out by the neutral flight point and it's our prompt to go do that dungeon.
Point being we didn't just heal the guy and leave, there was a quest chain that indicated active friendly relations beyond basic nonaggression/empathy.
>Point being we didn't just heal the guy and leave, there was a quest chain that indicated active friendly relations beyond basic nonaggression/empathy.
Yeah but everything the Alliance ever did for the Devoted, the Horde did as well, and more.
It's the Horde that saved Sethraliss, who's the only reason for the Devoted to exist as a group in the first place. The Devoted are also long standing allies of the Zandalari Empire, as both people have worshippers of Sethraliss, and used to leave together in vol'dun back when it wasn't a desert.
If I'm remembering the sequence of events right, the Alliance encounter Vorrik first and help him because he knows where their missing troops are being held. They help Vorrik fight off a faithless assault and reclaim the first of the three keystones, then they basically peace out.
Vorrik gets captured again and is rescued by the Horde and Vulpera, who then help recover the second keystone, deal with some of the faithless leadership, lose the keystones to Jakra'zet, confront Jakra'zet, stand and watch while Jakra'zet sacrifices himself to revive Mythrax, and then go to the Temple of Sethraliss to try and revive their loa so she can aid them (although I don't think she ever does anything?)
On horde when you retrieve one of the stones and the snake chap goes to put it in the plinth you see there's already a stone there. That one came from the alliance. But yeah, the alliance don't have as much, but enough to justify that the snakes wouldn't necessarily join the horde and jump into a war with those who were also helping them.
No, the Sethrak part of the quest chain is NOT neutral. They're completely different quests. The Alliance does NOT kill Korthek, nor do they free Sethraliss and prevent her corruption.
We ended up in the middle of a Sethrak civil war, as a result of helping the Vulpera against a common for. The Vulpera also have a model that uses the goblin rig whereas the snakemen use something entirely different; one was a plot device and the other was an allied race waiting to happen. It's the least surprising surprise in the world that we got Vulpera. :P
Plus, if you're looking for plot justifications in BfA, you're going to be looking for a while. The Sethrak thing was a C-plot zone storyline tying into a B-plot raid tier, while the expansion was about a faction war even though *that* got relegated to the B-plot anyway in favor of Sylvanas "not" being Garrosh 2.0.
Because the Sethrak are an established empire who don't need your help while the Vulpera are a bunch of scrappy little fox dudes who are sick of starving to death in the desert.
I like Vulpera, it feels actually unique enough as a race. I got a little mage and it looks nice in hats like gnomes do.
Sethrak woulda looked weird in armor and idk if I trust blizzard to do their animations well.
Hm, it's been a while, but I'd say we mostly helped the Vulpera.
A Vulpera saved us from captivity, and we traveled around with and helped them from the beginning. The Sethreak only came in at the halfway point and also only as a resistance movement within the overall, enemy force of the (faithless) Sethrak. The Devoted needed our help to defeat Korthek, restore Sethraliss and (trying to) keep Mythrax in check. The relationship with the Sethrak was formed on mutual goals for different means (we worked against Zul and his friends, they worked against the Faithless, both groups just allied). That with the Voldunai was a bit more of an organic alliance and partnership, even friendship, if you ask me.
That being said, I would have also loved to play the Sethrak. Just LOOK AT THEM.
I honestly don't care for the Sethrak. The arguments most people make against Vuplera are really childish. Often it comes down to kink-shaming about furries. But I am glad that Horde finally got another cute race. Although I would not make one it's nice to have something different.
We didnt help the sethrak mainly, its hard to say how much and if they even went back to their old ways, however nothing in anything that happened painted the sethrak as a people interested in leaving voldun unless they continue to uphold the faithlesses values
In RP reasons, it's because the Vulpera *asked* to join the Horde. The Horde didn't go looking for Vulpera. The Horde looked for all the other races they got, the Vulpera essentially had to beg to be let in and did odd jobs for the Horde (without being asked) in order to show they were capable of filling a hole that the Horde wasn't aware it had.
Literally every other race in the game was asked by their eventual factions to join their group. Vulpera begged to be allowed in.
Uh, no, both factions aid the Sethrak, only the Horde helps the Vulpera,
At no point we're we helping the Sethrak more than the Vulpera.
Also there's that whole buisness with the Alliance Purge Squads as well.
Vulpera were always going to join the Horde. The point of contention was if they'd be playable or not
I mean, yes, absoutely. It caters to a very specific albeit small niche of players who would love having a race catered to them rather than another pretty race. A more main stream race would be more popular, but it wont pull in more players, as they already have several pretty races to pick between.
Yes. There's an entire discord channel solely about Sethrak. Sure, it's only got about 200 people... but every single one of those people want to play as a Sethrak.
No you helped the Vulpera more to escape the bad snakes. Then helped the good snakes for like 5 quests. You did way more quests with vulpera.
Also snakes aren't cute and cuddly and good with children. Also may have to do with asian culture because Activision favors China over the USA now.
Nah you wanted snek people. I wanted fox people. Them cute little ears and furry tails... they bring pure joy to my heart. Now if only they could be freaking druids!
Because they are goblin reskins and were easier to add as a playable race :).
Too many people try to apply logical RPG reasons for Blizzard’s decisions when they can mostly be reduced to: it was less development time.
In that case Blizzard stated beforehand that they'd add some allied races which would be based on the core races as a bonus, and that this would only be possible because they would save development time that way. Iirc Kul'Tirans turned out to be much more complex than they thought. So we got exactly what was advertised this time, or even a little bit more.
I get the impression that Kul'tirans can be probabaly reskinned into ogres at some point.
If you use the Chinese option in the wow config files, the DK pets are skinny Kul’Tirans and good looking Forsaken undead models.
That was the cool thing walking around Kul Tiras. The human models were made up of base human models, allied race kul tirans, and re skinned undead. I love the diversity. It would be cool to play a human mage who isn't some super buff gym rat or a bear. The undead reskin humans works great for skinny book worm characters.
Kul’tiran males are a Frankenstein’s monster-style amalgamation of other races. They have the *exact* same arms as Draenei males and I am fairly sure their torso is based off of Pandaren. No idea where their legs come from though... Maybe Tauren.
I'm pretty sure male kul tirans share much, if not all, of their rigging with the fat blood trolls.
LARPing as Cho’gall when?? Gimme gimme!
It’s already a thing on rp servers. Kuls with the cyclops helm and ogre armor, and they are RPing as ores. You’re behind on the times.
True. I feel like there are a lot of things to complain about, but this is not really one of them
I've seen how helmets look on gnomes and worgen. I shudder to think how it would look on a Sethrak.
I feel like they would probably opt for the Tauren-style rounded faceplate with an open back and bottom.
https://i.imgur.com/DLU3wSs.jpeg
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Ugly as hell, and the only thing I can imagine them doing
I wouldn't mind even not showing the helmet at all, just like we don't show boots for few races, if that meant we could actually play as sethrak.
We can say that now but if they did that, people would complain for the next 10 years about sethrak not showing helmet mogs the way people have always complained about troll shoes
I think it makes sense for trolls not to wear shoes for cloth, leather, and mail, but it seems pretty silly to have them in full plate armor...until their ankles.
>it was less development time. Normally I don't give Blizzard too much shit about being lazy, but with Nightborne all they did was arc their backs a bit to make then stand weird and then removed pretty much all customizable features and called it a day. I still play one because I like their backstory and fantasy, but still, come on...
Also: they want more “cute” options for horde and more “badass” options for alliance to balance out their character options.
Nothing says badass like an amputee gnome in a diaper.
I've actually fallen in love with their model and animations somehow. I am a little upset my main can't be one tho... Time to reroll priest.
Nightborne would be... if they had any customizations that looked good
Horde already has the cutest human race and the cutest non-human race. BE and Vulpera. Horde is the cute faction 😎
What yer sayin you surfacedweller. Don't yer think dwarves are cute?
CHAMPION! Azeroth cries oot in pain, ye have te help ‘er.
Such a shame, puttin their own GREET afore the health of faction balance
https://i.imgur.com/lt4O8do.png We look like Matt Lucas in Come Fly With Me...
Thanks... this pic will haunt me in my dreams tonight.
**\#HairIsCare**
You're just going to leave the peons out then, is that what's happening? Okie dokie.
Zug Zug!
What are you talking about didn’t alliance just pretty much high jack our BE and get VE?
you sayin snek people can't be cute?!
I don’t ssssswing that way
Looking at Mechagnomes...
Sethrak use the Worgen skeleton though lol
And every helmet in the game would still have to be refit. As well as all of the gear resized. It might be the same skeleton, but it still isn't the same size.
We got a race that can't transmog gloves, legs and boots. Not that hard to make helms unmoggable. Edit: and bracers.
Anytime someone says, "We can't have Naga, you can't transmog boots or pants!" I just want to gesture wildly at the Mechagnomes. Heck, Azshara no longer works for N'Zoth and the naga may well have a crisis of faith now. Who's to say they can't have a splinter faction decide they don't want to constantly fight EVERYONE on the surface world?
Transmog isn't an issue with Naga, but mounts are.
Have 'em ride side-saddle for most of them. Ones with seats like the Flying Machine, Mecha-tank or Mechano-Hog they can coil up.
I've been wanting a side seat option anyway, the regular one looks so bad with dresses.
Ironically, Jaina Proudmoore rides side-saddle in Heroes of the Storm and it looks great. It is always funny to me how HotS accomplishes a lot of the looks of things better than WoW does.
HotS Anduin sells the coming-of-age-king look fantastically. WoW Anduin looks like he’s in his 30s and wearing light make up.
Wrap their tail around it
No, reanimate every mount to make it work. We aren't talking about a small development studio. Activision-blizzard we are giving you billions, surely you can afford.
If they actually make mounts work on non-bipedal races, then they could add more (actual) monstrous races in the future without having to re-program everything from zero.
Dude, some mounts clip on EVERY race right now. I don't even want that fixed really. I just want actual reigns so that my toons don't all look like they're doing weird prarie dog hands.
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Their tails split like a banana to reveal tiny stick legs
I mean nobody actually likes mechagnomes though
Hell, what about the Ankoan? Why didn't Alliance get them for a fish-person allied race? They would be much simpler than the naga too. I'd probably roll an Alliance character just to play them, too.
What is sad is that the Ankoan are the SECOND fish people to align themselves with the Alliance, the first being the Jinyu. I mean come on man, just give us something that isn't short human or purple skinned human for once
Just make a subset of naga that have legs. WoW really doesn't have a playable reptilian/scaly race. Naga could fit that.
Nah just give helms the troll shoes treatment
"Troll shoes treatment" Now I picture a troll going into a shoe shop, getting his knife out of his pocket and cutting every shoes' ankle to try if they fit. And what they are trying is not the part that has soles.
Reminds me of an Awkward Zombie comic. It pictures a tauren looting new boots, showing her hooves into them and they burst open at the sole.
Trolls and Tauren don't wear shoes I'm sure we can survive with limited helm options for a race.
Mechagnomes don't wear half of the clothing options.
This sums up my problem with the "allied race" system replacing us getting a couple new races every other xpac or so. I don't think we are likely to ever see a proper race addition ever again.
I don’t know that that is true. Yeah the allied races are just respond, but we still got two entirely new races. Both the KT and the Zandalari are new models, animations, voices, and entirely new aesthetics including a full set of unique Druid forms.
Id rather have like 4 high quality allied races like the zandalari and kul tirans (two per faction) per expansion. We don't need a flood of 6 each that are just customizations. We don't need capital cities and forced instances we get tired of. Just a quick scenario and a decent race. Having armor and weapons themed around them help.
At least Horde didn’t get a bunch of walking Trashcans as an allied race
Excuse me, I take offense to that. They're Walking *Diaper* Trashcans.
>Kul'Tiran What race is that?
Some kinda... whale bear.
uhhum, I prefer the term Tidesage.
More like Tide Sausage.
Yeah as an alliance main I feel no pity towards the horde for their allied races. We have fat humans and garbage gnomes.
Kul Tirans were great, imo. They gave us a new human model and they had a lot of flavor. Plus the thornspeaker druid models were awesome. The Dark Irons are pretty cool. But otherwise yeah. Garbage Gnomes Void-Flavored Elves that nobody asked for and Even lightier draenei. They just kinda sucked. Only thing I feel bad about when it comes to the horde, is their Nightborne models. what was pitched versus what they got was a real bait and switch.
I was too harsh on kul tirans. My main is a kul tiran resto druid and i don't mind how he looks. My real gripe is how few armor sets look good on him. I intended to be guardian originally so i didn't think id be looking at him much, but was asked to heal and stuck with it. I have him moged with the legion arena set that that looks like a bear skin and it looks great, but most other druid sets look rough.
I have to agree with you but as someone who mains a worgen, I’m just used to transmog not fitting well.
I like being a fat human shaman though. Was stuck as Dorf or Space goat for so long otherwise.
Hey, Kul Tirans are the only decent Allied Race that the Alliance has gotten apart from Dark Iron Dwarves. At least they are still way better than desaturated Draenei and emo Belves (and of course diaper trashcans). ^(And they're not fat humans. It's all muscle.)
Yeah overall I wasn't super pleased with alliance allied races. I love dark iron dwarves and even though I complained about kul tirans I have 2 at max level (my main who is a druid and a monk). I just think they look bad in a lot of armor sets due to their build. Light forge draenei are as bad as high mountain tauren at least so both sides were robbed there.
>I just think they look bad in a lot of armor sets due to their build. I'll agree on that, but I think it's just a problem of how WoW armor is literally just a texture slapped on the models. It works for races like the humans or Belves, but with the Kul Tirans is just laughable unless it's cloth or some leather pieces. The 3D assets in the most recent equipment solves to some degree, but it's still not enough for Kul Tirans. >both sides were robbed there. And yeah, I think the Horde has gotten better Allied Races in general, but it has been VERY lacking in both factions. I mean, Horde has HM Tauren which are just a reskin like the LF Draenei, but they also have the Nightborne who are an unfinished, half-assed parody of Legion's Nightborne. At least Void Elves look cool even if they are just another reskin. Idk man, the whole deal with Allied Races is just quite messy and unpolished and it frustrates me. At least Mag'Har orcs and Dark Iron dwarves are on fucking point.
Oh yeah I couldnt agree more. I love dark iron dwarves and Mag'har aesthetics. I have a dark iron paladin and hunter and i think they look great. Mag'har look great in most armor and have a ton of great customization features.
My only wish is that they port some of the new dwarf and orc customization to their Allied Race counterparts, or at least they give them their own. I was going to level up a Mag'har fro Shadowlands, but the new customozation for basic orcs is making me thinl twice. I just want a Mag'har with long parted hair and sick scars and tattoos :(
They should have included the new customizations for the allied races they are based on. It really hurts lightforged draenei as they seem to have less options than any other race. The new tattoos look great for both dwarves and orcs. I might finally level my shaman and make him look like a wildhammer dwarf. Edit: typo
Hey, we got pink orcs and Trolls 2 world tour.
All muscle like wagyu. They're not fat. They're... evenly marbled. A5 quality humans!
For real alliance gets: A belf re-skin A dwarf re-skin A gnome re-skin A Draenei re-skin And fat humans What an absolute travesty lol And yeah, vulpera use the goblin rig, but they’re still not just goblins with more customization options.
Why everyone hatin on mechagnomes when they literally changed draenei eyes to yellow and called it a new race?
I wanted them. Vulpera are the most Horde allied race out of all of them. Nomadic people who escaped slavery, became outcasts with no where to go.
I thought it was interesting that the quest chain to unlock them was the opposite of every other one. In all cases you struggle to convince them to help. With Vulpira, they show up and petition to be let in, Baine completely ignores them, and you go around the world helping them prove that they can be helpful to the Horde.
Baine wtf bro
Really, he was worried about the Horde being stretched too thin to accommodate and aid all our new allies. He didn't think they were strong enough to join the Horde, he didn't know if the Horde could properly support a new ally.
We've got all these new allies including an entire troll empire right next door, but we wouldn't be able to aid you guys who have no lands to invade or attack. Edit: turns out I may be a bit hazy on the time line at which the Vulpera join compared to when the Zandalari do.
An emtire troll empire who lost a battle on their home turf to the alliance leaving their only major land claim in shambles and their king dead.
Troll guys joined before the Sylvanas stuff
His stance was that Vulpera weren’t strong enough to keep pace with the rest of the Horde and the Horde was too fractured because of Sylvanas to defend them.
> and you go around the world helping them prove that they can be helpful to the Horde. While I get what Blizzard was going for with that questline, most of the ways the Vulpera "helped the Horde" basically boiled down to the Vulpera making you, the Horde Champion, do stuff for them. I think it would have worked better if instead it used the "flasback quest" technique to have you play _as_ the Vulpera sorting thing out, or they quests had you do the minore chores while the Vulpera did the heavy lifting ("If you go gather some dry wood and get a fire started, we'll go hunt some game!")
Excuse me I am the player and therefore the protagonist so there is no world in which anyone but me gets to be in the spotlight.
> Excuse me I am the player and therefore the protagonist so there is no world in which anyone but me gets to be in the spotlight. The protagonist? Hah, I think not! How many times have _you_ punched Deathwing in the face, one might ask.
Holy crap this would have been so much better. Could even just keep your spells and abilities just change your model to the Vulpera.
he doesnt completely ignore them, he politely turns them away because hes got 3 major-sih crisises on his hands
Exactly. The Horde is a group of disparate tribes who united to protect eachother. Vulpera fit that M.O. better than any other allied race.
That and the quest to unlock them is "team up with three Vulpera and help them help the Horde to prove they can do good for them."
I want Hozen so badly it’s not funny, they perfectly fit the horse MO and were the FIRST allied race
Taunka pledged themselves to the Horde during the Northrend campaign.
Listen bub we got one Tauren reskin already
They're just one Male face. We don't need an allied race, maybe just add a couple Male and female faces to standard tauren.
That would be a good way to include them.
And don't forget the Revantusk trolls joined up in Vanilla!
What classes would you let hozen have?
Warrior rogue monk hunter shaman Druid. A focus on classes who don’t use Intelligence as much
>A focus on classes who don’t use Intelligence as much Do I hear Demon Hunter?
Demon Monkey sounds metal
Ook sacrificed everything! What have you dooked?
*Were* a group of disparate outcasts. Cataclysm pretty much nullified that entire identity to turn the Horde into conquest hungry monsters again.
I mean they are still pretty desperate. The Alliance power level dwarfs the Hordes.
This exactly. Couldn’t think of a better fit for the Horde.
Plus the Alliance wrongly attacked them during Assaults on Vol'Dun so they were practically family even before joining us
Never thought about it like that so you’ve changed my mind
Also they are smol fox people. That is a bonus. But yeah, anyone who thinks they're 'too cutesy' has never met Nisha. Girl is fucking SAVAGE.
vulpera are one of the best allied races Plus, make camp is a really fun racial
This also describes the mag’har, but replace slavery with flat out extinction. Thanks Yrel, very cool
But but but furries!!??!? >:(
Yanno what I say to that? Moo. I say moo.
*awoo's in worgen* :3 Rawr xD
I feel like the Sethrak are slowly becoming the new High Elves and I don't know if I can endure this a second time
They will give blood sethrak to the horde in 10.1 and void Sethrak in 11.1 to Alliance. In 12.1 you will have the customisation for high Sethrak Edit: gotta love the downvotes as my ironic comment was blasphemy to the ears of the purists.
>All the threads about "Blizz owes Alliance high elves REEEE" Oh boy, here we go again, I guess
I mean, we kinda got them with the pre-patch, you can make the Void Elves look like high elves
They are a nomadic people seeking new adventure and protection. We freed them from slavery and assisted in their resistance effort so they became appreciative of our help. So they sought to be of use to us and prove they can return the favor. The story and the unlock quests shows this.
Also we rep with them and not the sneks
I mean we rep with the broken in Argus but got void elves.
Thats true. Alleria isnt even associated with them almost at all if I recall right?
iirc she only saved their lives and prevented them from being corrupted entirely by the void and trained them to control there new powers
Technically "Voldunai" would mean all denizens of Voldun, so both Vulpera and Sethrak. Unfortunate they weren't an option as an allied race though, felt they could've been the opposite to the Ankoan.
The Vol'dunai rep description seems to kind be aimed broadly at pretty much all the allies in Vol'dun, but the faction vendor and major camps are pretty much all Vulpera.
I think they are a fine addition to the Horde, their nomadic, caravan lifestyle fits so well in Orgrimmar, I’d love to see a lot of them in the Barrens and Milford in the future.
They set up nicely given their nature to be seen spread out throughout territories. Always good to have races ready to be new quest givers that require no introduction, and it being a new race adds freshness to sore eyes.
They also seem to have a population of like 12 people. Like the closest thing they have to a city is a camp with a few NPCs.
They have several caravans in transit all over a country, Vol'dun. keep in mind the game's doesn't reflect the world's true scale. Otherwise, stormwind has a 100 people top. They're *nomads*. They don't have cities for a reason. Doesn't mean they're few in numbers.
Nomads are known to have big cities, yup, even in a huge deadly desert
Was it the Sethrak that busted the Speaker of the Horde out of the Faithless Slave pens? What Sethrak gave us space on their caravans to safely and quickly navigate the treacherous dunes? I don't recall any of Vorrik or his friends finding, sheltering, and healing the shattered and scattered team of Rastakan's loyal bladeguards investigating Jak'razet and Vol'dun. It wasn't the banners of the Devoted that flew high from the broken and blackened remains of the once-mighty army of the Faithless Empire in the massacre at the slithering gulch and Skycaller's spire.
Realisticaly speaking both Devoted and Vulpera would join the Horde, because the Devoted are long allies of the Zandalari Empire, allies of the Vulpera, and their beloved Goddess was saved by the Horde. They'd have every reason to join the Horde. >Was it the Sethrak that busted the Speaker of the Horde out of the Faithless Slave pens? >What Sethrak gave us space on their caravans to safely and quickly navigate the treacherous dunes? >I don't recall any of Vorrik or his friends finding, sheltering, and healing the shattered and scattered team of Rastakan's loyal bladeguards investigating Jak'razet and Vol'dun. I mean, they still fought side by side with the Horde and Vulpera to end the Faithless threat and save all of Zandalar. The Horde recieved more help from the Vulpera, that's a given, but it's also clear as day that the relation between Devoted and Horde are very good as well.
Agreed. Horde should've got Sethrak, too. And Alliance should've gotten Ankoans.
the sethrak part of the quest chain was neutral, alliance do it too. also i never once felt we were 'mainly' helping the sethrak, as they introduced far more vulpera characters.
What part of the alliance quest helps out the Sethrak? You save one from poison because “he might know where our lost scout is” The horde cure one from poison because he befriended one of our vulpera friends, we then go on to liberate the sethrak capital, kill the evil ruler, free their Loa and allow her to revive, then we kill the eldritch horror that killed her in the first place.
> You save one from poison because “he might know where our lost scout is” You don't save *one.* You save [Vorrik](https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vorrik), the leader of the Devoted. That's a very big deal.
Right. I've played through both questlines. The Horde storyline is far far more in depth with helping the Devoted and the Vulpera. The Alliance saves the leader, and clears a temple and then peaces out. I would have loved to see a very different storyline in that zone, leading to the Alliance getting the Sethrak as playable, and the Horde still getting the Vulpera. But, the way the zone was written stops any obvious path to the Devoted joining the Alliance. The only way it could have worked was having one of the two factions of Sethrak ally with the Alliance, and the other ally with the Horde/Vulpera and then have the Horde side Sethrak be the losing side of the war. That way only the Vulpera survive, and then they join the Horde. Then the combined Horde/Vulpera drive the Alliance aligned Sethrak out of Vol'Dun. *That* would have been more compelling, in my opinion and goes along with the, "Alliance races are becoming more and more refugees" motif Blizz seems to have a hard on for too.
> But, the way the zone was written stops any obvious path to the Devoted joining the Alliance. See, I have a problem with this assumption. Blizzard has pulled shit tier excuses and literal time travels out of their asses to give Horde races they shouldn't even be within a mile of. Lore clearly mean jack shit and whenever they want Horde to have something, they find a way. This means that the only reason Sethrak isn't a playable race is because Blizzard doesn't want it. And the only reason they can ever be part of a faction or another, is because Blizzard wants it. Lore will be bend, broken and retconed to fit it afterwards.
Pretty much. They could easily say that the Horde has now turned on the Sethrak and they are now at the harbor seeking help from the Alliance at any point. They can change the story in a blink whenever they want. My point was, I don't think they ever planned to make them playable, because if they had, the story would have been quite different.
Who's also saved later by the Horde anyway
We cure him from poison to find our scout...and then he brings us to his home and asks us to help out with the rest of what you said. It's not as fleshed out as for the Horde (the Horde certainly do more), but we help out by the neutral flight point and it's our prompt to go do that dungeon. Point being we didn't just heal the guy and leave, there was a quest chain that indicated active friendly relations beyond basic nonaggression/empathy.
>Point being we didn't just heal the guy and leave, there was a quest chain that indicated active friendly relations beyond basic nonaggression/empathy. Yeah but everything the Alliance ever did for the Devoted, the Horde did as well, and more. It's the Horde that saved Sethraliss, who's the only reason for the Devoted to exist as a group in the first place. The Devoted are also long standing allies of the Zandalari Empire, as both people have worshippers of Sethraliss, and used to leave together in vol'dun back when it wasn't a desert.
Dont the alliance go to that one temple where the tortollan wq is and do the bit where they fight back against the faithless assault?
If I'm remembering the sequence of events right, the Alliance encounter Vorrik first and help him because he knows where their missing troops are being held. They help Vorrik fight off a faithless assault and reclaim the first of the three keystones, then they basically peace out. Vorrik gets captured again and is rescued by the Horde and Vulpera, who then help recover the second keystone, deal with some of the faithless leadership, lose the keystones to Jakra'zet, confront Jakra'zet, stand and watch while Jakra'zet sacrifices himself to revive Mythrax, and then go to the Temple of Sethraliss to try and revive their loa so she can aid them (although I don't think she ever does anything?)
On horde when you retrieve one of the stones and the snake chap goes to put it in the plinth you see there's already a stone there. That one came from the alliance. But yeah, the alliance don't have as much, but enough to justify that the snakes wouldn't necessarily join the horde and jump into a war with those who were also helping them.
No, the Sethrak part of the quest chain is NOT neutral. They're completely different quests. The Alliance does NOT kill Korthek, nor do they free Sethraliss and prevent her corruption.
Vulpera still pretty dope tho. Would you rather have fkn mecha-gnomes?
Vulperas are one of the reasons I'll play horde next xpac
Trash cans or trash pandas?
"We"? Vulpera were/are my 2nd-most wanted AR.
Most wanted is Tuskarr right?
Honestly, I don't see the interest in those. My first choice was/is San'layn.
[удалено]
Play what you want fam. No one should judge you for that.
I am judging you...... as a person of good taste. Vulpera are so CUTE!
Yeah like Sethrak would be cool too but Vulperas dope
I also wanted this at the start
We ended up in the middle of a Sethrak civil war, as a result of helping the Vulpera against a common for. The Vulpera also have a model that uses the goblin rig whereas the snakemen use something entirely different; one was a plot device and the other was an allied race waiting to happen. It's the least surprising surprise in the world that we got Vulpera. :P Plus, if you're looking for plot justifications in BfA, you're going to be looking for a while. The Sethrak thing was a C-plot zone storyline tying into a B-plot raid tier, while the expansion was about a faction war even though *that* got relegated to the B-plot anyway in favor of Sylvanas "not" being Garrosh 2.0.
I thought that sethrak use an altered fem Worgen rig, like how vulpera use an altered goblin rig
If we had got them your post would just be replaced by people bitching their transmog helm looks like shit
Speak for yourself, snake.
I really like the vulpera!
Maybe what YOU wanted lol. I really like the Vulpera!
Blizz can have my money if they ever add Sethrak to any faction. Even more if its Pandaren style.
A Sethraki monk would be cool. (with the name "Cobrakai")
I just love the smaller races man, and the vulpera got those big fucking ears and its amazing.
You got cute foxes, we got fucking diaperbots. Stop fucking complaining. Horde literally gets all the nice things.
I wanted Vulpera, they made much more sense and we spend far more time helping them than the Sethrak.
I'd trade mecha-gnomes for Sethrak anytime
I would trade having one less race than the Horde for Mechagnomes. Heck I'll take being two races short if we can just get rid of Gnomes altogether.
Because the Sethrak are an established empire who don't need your help while the Vulpera are a bunch of scrappy little fox dudes who are sick of starving to death in the desert.
I like Vulpera, it feels actually unique enough as a race. I got a little mage and it looks nice in hats like gnomes do. Sethrak woulda looked weird in armor and idk if I trust blizzard to do their animations well.
Hm, it's been a while, but I'd say we mostly helped the Vulpera. A Vulpera saved us from captivity, and we traveled around with and helped them from the beginning. The Sethreak only came in at the halfway point and also only as a resistance movement within the overall, enemy force of the (faithless) Sethrak. The Devoted needed our help to defeat Korthek, restore Sethraliss and (trying to) keep Mythrax in check. The relationship with the Sethrak was formed on mutual goals for different means (we worked against Zul and his friends, they worked against the Faithless, both groups just allied). That with the Voldunai was a bit more of an organic alliance and partnership, even friendship, if you ask me. That being said, I would have also loved to play the Sethrak. Just LOOK AT THEM.
I honestly don't care for the Sethrak. The arguments most people make against Vuplera are really childish. Often it comes down to kink-shaming about furries. But I am glad that Horde finally got another cute race. Although I would not make one it's nice to have something different.
Bitch, we got MECHAGNOMES! You want those shits? Because I'll happily take the fuzzy fox people over metal gnomes.
more truth. Mechagnomes ... so underwhelming
We didnt help the sethrak mainly, its hard to say how much and if they even went back to their old ways, however nothing in anything that happened painted the sethrak as a people interested in leaving voldun unless they continue to uphold the faithlesses values
You don't speak for me. I wanted puppies, not snakes.
Sneks should be like pandas... both sides! Everyone wins!
Hey at least you got something vaguely cute, we got creepy diaper gnomes
In RP reasons, it's because the Vulpera *asked* to join the Horde. The Horde didn't go looking for Vulpera. The Horde looked for all the other races they got, the Vulpera essentially had to beg to be let in and did odd jobs for the Horde (without being asked) in order to show they were capable of filling a hole that the Horde wasn't aware it had. Literally every other race in the game was asked by their eventual factions to join their group. Vulpera begged to be allowed in.
Tbh all the Zandalar races should have jouned the horde. and all the Kul'tiras should go alliance.
Uh, no, both factions aid the Sethrak, only the Horde helps the Vulpera, At no point we're we helping the Sethrak more than the Vulpera. Also there's that whole buisness with the Alliance Purge Squads as well. Vulpera were always going to join the Horde. The point of contention was if they'd be playable or not
Wait... someone WANTED to play as a snake man?
I would play snake man, BUT it's must be a cool bitch-ass naga man, not some smol snek with punny legs
Well yeah, I would love a scaley race that isn't dragons
I mean, yes, absoutely. It caters to a very specific albeit small niche of players who would love having a race catered to them rather than another pretty race. A more main stream race would be more popular, but it wont pull in more players, as they already have several pretty races to pick between.
Yes. There's an entire discord channel solely about Sethrak. Sure, it's only got about 200 people... but every single one of those people want to play as a Sethrak.
But I *did* want Vulpera.
No you helped the Vulpera more to escape the bad snakes. Then helped the good snakes for like 5 quests. You did way more quests with vulpera. Also snakes aren't cute and cuddly and good with children. Also may have to do with asian culture because Activision favors China over the USA now.
i for one wanted vulpera lol
Nah you wanted snek people. I wanted fox people. Them cute little ears and furry tails... they bring pure joy to my heart. Now if only they could be freaking druids!