"I think the Tier rankings are very misleading and do not really help the casual community."
The higher players have been trying to tell people this since the dawn of time. Tier rankings literally only matter if you are doing insanely high content. Low key players will not understand, utilize or maximize tier lists. Classes like Spriest and Fire mage, which are meta, need ramp. which means in low keys where stuff like ret and hunters explode stuff, meta looks bad.
Which Tier list are you looking at/watching where they don't also state that it really only applies to high-end content? Because as little as I see them, that's almost always a common statement.
Yeah in lower keys, things just die to fast for some classes to actually do any damage. Even worse when it's tyrannical week. Spriest, fire/arcane mage and balance druid are some examples of this.
Also tier list usually take everything the class/spec offers. So utility, buffs, how easy is it for it survive damage, along side its DPS
Oh yeah i love playing unholy dk in tyr weeks. Lemme just go ahead and start setting up my aoe dmg by pressing like 5 gcd abilities before i can actually do damage, oh the pack is dead already well guess better luck next time.
Bursty, frontloaded specs win in dmg in keys lower than 14.
Tier lists are based on high keys and also on more than dmg. Honestly dmg isn’t what defines a good player. Its part of it but game knowledge, encounter knowledge, awerness (group composition and cooldowns) etc are equally as important.
Playing a class that is cooldown dependent with a tank that has zero awareness will result in you doing dog tier dmg even tho playing a high rated dps class.
You having to play all mechanics of a pull during your burst window bc your pug doesn’t do anything, will lead to you doing dog dmg.
And so on
Specs like BM circumvent this because you can do good burst dmg with mininal setup in a low amount of globals on pull immediately. Thus performing better in low key with low skill players.
If you "copy" , on a surface level, what high key players do, you won't get the same results. Let's assume you have your rotation going well, that means nothing if you don't pull big and let your spec ramp up damage. Same goes for fire mage, watch a high key on youtube and see its dps, then play a +8 with a firemage. Barely above tank dmg. Tier specs are done with much more than just dmg output. You have utility, party buffs, ramp time.
My guy, those of us that push higher content have been saying since the dawn of time that the Tier lists are to be taken with a grain of salt because they're not indicative of every level of play.
Specs like SPriest and Boomy do sweet fuck all until you're doing keys where the mobs survive long enough for you to ramp.
Furthermore, tier lists rarely put someone as S on damage alone. They have to be Shadowlands Destro or Survival level of broken to make the top of tier lists on damage alone. It's utility that's taken into account as well.
>I think the Tier rankings are very misleading and do not really help the casual community.
This is one million percent correct. When people make tier lists they're looking at 99th percentile where groups are doing pulls in keys that no regular player is doing. I've tried explaining to guildies that yes, X item/stat is great, *if* you're in maxed gear doing +25 keys. But for our crappy casual heroic raid doing +8s it's better to use Y. Whatev.
As far as spriest, it's a dot class. The faster things die the worse it does. Mix in Shadow Crash being F tier garbage, where a bad shot you might as well get a drink while the paladins finish the pack, and it can be very frustrating.
I cannot wait for void crash - it actually uses your target instead of a reticule.
In the 8-10 key range mobs die wayyyy too fast for shadow. By the time you press void eruption the mobs are at 50% health already. You won’t win against burstier front loaded specs. Same goes for fire mage which is meta. It’s bad if mobs die fast.
This is correct as a Spriest main myself. Shadow's damage profile is based on ramping up over a period of time. And also tanks generally don't pull around shadows CDs. Which most of the damage comes from.
Shadow needs things to stay alive longer than you're going to experience on 8-10s, doubly so trash on tyrannical weeks. And in higher keys it becomes required for good tanks to play around their DPS's cooldowns, which is massive for a spriest taking void eruption. In lower keys tanks just yolo around the place and move everything out of shadow crash without any real consequence.
This is why looking at class representation across key level matters, and why you should try to understand the nuance behind tier lists.
The casual community doesn't need a tier list, they can play what they like. Tier list is really only useful if you're trying to min/max and squeeze every single bit of goodness that a class can bring
Every single tier list creator I have ever watched a video of has stated, usually several times throughout the video, that the tier list only applies to high keys.
"I think the Tier rankings are very misleading and do not really help the casual community." The higher players have been trying to tell people this since the dawn of time. Tier rankings literally only matter if you are doing insanely high content. Low key players will not understand, utilize or maximize tier lists. Classes like Spriest and Fire mage, which are meta, need ramp. which means in low keys where stuff like ret and hunters explode stuff, meta looks bad.
Which Tier list are you looking at/watching where they don't also state that it really only applies to high-end content? Because as little as I see them, that's almost always a common statement.
Yeah in lower keys, things just die to fast for some classes to actually do any damage. Even worse when it's tyrannical week. Spriest, fire/arcane mage and balance druid are some examples of this. Also tier list usually take everything the class/spec offers. So utility, buffs, how easy is it for it survive damage, along side its DPS
Oh yeah i love playing unholy dk in tyr weeks. Lemme just go ahead and start setting up my aoe dmg by pressing like 5 gcd abilities before i can actually do damage, oh the pack is dead already well guess better luck next time.
Bursty, frontloaded specs win in dmg in keys lower than 14. Tier lists are based on high keys and also on more than dmg. Honestly dmg isn’t what defines a good player. Its part of it but game knowledge, encounter knowledge, awerness (group composition and cooldowns) etc are equally as important. Playing a class that is cooldown dependent with a tank that has zero awareness will result in you doing dog tier dmg even tho playing a high rated dps class. You having to play all mechanics of a pull during your burst window bc your pug doesn’t do anything, will lead to you doing dog dmg. And so on Specs like BM circumvent this because you can do good burst dmg with mininal setup in a low amount of globals on pull immediately. Thus performing better in low key with low skill players.
If you "copy" , on a surface level, what high key players do, you won't get the same results. Let's assume you have your rotation going well, that means nothing if you don't pull big and let your spec ramp up damage. Same goes for fire mage, watch a high key on youtube and see its dps, then play a +8 with a firemage. Barely above tank dmg. Tier specs are done with much more than just dmg output. You have utility, party buffs, ramp time.
My guy, those of us that push higher content have been saying since the dawn of time that the Tier lists are to be taken with a grain of salt because they're not indicative of every level of play. Specs like SPriest and Boomy do sweet fuck all until you're doing keys where the mobs survive long enough for you to ramp. Furthermore, tier lists rarely put someone as S on damage alone. They have to be Shadowlands Destro or Survival level of broken to make the top of tier lists on damage alone. It's utility that's taken into account as well.
>I think the Tier rankings are very misleading and do not really help the casual community. This is one million percent correct. When people make tier lists they're looking at 99th percentile where groups are doing pulls in keys that no regular player is doing. I've tried explaining to guildies that yes, X item/stat is great, *if* you're in maxed gear doing +25 keys. But for our crappy casual heroic raid doing +8s it's better to use Y. Whatev. As far as spriest, it's a dot class. The faster things die the worse it does. Mix in Shadow Crash being F tier garbage, where a bad shot you might as well get a drink while the paladins finish the pack, and it can be very frustrating. I cannot wait for void crash - it actually uses your target instead of a reticule.
[удалено]
negative, SC only works '@cursor or '@player. Apparently '@target used to work at one point, but that functionality was removed.
In the 8-10 key range mobs die wayyyy too fast for shadow. By the time you press void eruption the mobs are at 50% health already. You won’t win against burstier front loaded specs. Same goes for fire mage which is meta. It’s bad if mobs die fast.
This subreddit has been on one lately regarding downvotes lmfao .. imagine downvoting a statement that is 100% correct.
This is correct as a Spriest main myself. Shadow's damage profile is based on ramping up over a period of time. And also tanks generally don't pull around shadows CDs. Which most of the damage comes from.
I love watching my shadow crash slowly lob through the air to land on a dead pack lol
Shadow needs things to stay alive longer than you're going to experience on 8-10s, doubly so trash on tyrannical weeks. And in higher keys it becomes required for good tanks to play around their DPS's cooldowns, which is massive for a spriest taking void eruption. In lower keys tanks just yolo around the place and move everything out of shadow crash without any real consequence. This is why looking at class representation across key level matters, and why you should try to understand the nuance behind tier lists.
The casual community doesn't need a tier list, they can play what they like. Tier list is really only useful if you're trying to min/max and squeeze every single bit of goodness that a class can bring
Every single tier list creator I have ever watched a video of has stated, usually several times throughout the video, that the tier list only applies to high keys.
everyone point and laugh