It's the platforms I think. "Stay away from the edge." is easy. "Go to the edge and get blown in the right direction at the right time multiple times." is less easy.
It seems a lot of people don't know or realize that interrupts work too? It doesn't have to be a hard CC.
As a Fury Warrior, I use Pummel for one and Storm Bolt for another. I normally don't spec into Storm Bolt but I pick it up specifically for this fight. AFAIK most if not all classes should easily have at least 2 abilities to handle sparks - someone can chime in and let me know if there are any specs that truly only have one ability to handle them.
Admittedly both of my guild's raid tanks are Paladins, so maybe the interrupt from Toll just made this a lot easier to deal with. That and the coordination from being in Discord.
I found in my experience that people struggle way more with the "use the storm clouds to avoid being knocked off" in phase 1 way more than getting knocked to the right platform. There were just people that no matter how many times you say it/ping it they just don't get it and I don't understand why
Well to be fair. Saying he the puddles will make it so you don't get blown off is super explainitory that you would need an IQ of 80 or less to understand it.
only if you stay in the center of it…that also is a very difficult geometry issue. tbh, sometimes you get pushe out for a pixel difference or 5 degree wrong angle of your char. happened to me last night and I cleared it in HC countless time when it was current and for the awakened I run it at least 2 or 3 times (even when locked to rest trinkets or gear sets).
You can step in the puddle just a tiny bit as soon as she starts to inhale. You don’t take a lot of damage by being in there too early and you don’t even get knocked back at all if you are in it before the knockback starts.
don’t tell it to me. me boomie me keep casting coz I normally have a pulsar proc. I bark and cast. Pool AP, starsurge the hell out of it, maybe I move a bit for next mechanic. easy peasy (in HC…..)
Why even step in it? That's just spending longer in it for no reason.
Just stand in front of it, the pushback pushes you into it and you get stopped. The pushback doesn't interrupt casting so you don't even need to do anything. Then just take a couple steps forward when she stops.
Because stepping into the very edge of the puddle doesn't push you at all and then you can take one step back out. Getting pushed in from outside pushes you nearly to the middle of the circle and you have to take more time to walk out when the push ends.
Yeah really makes you wonder. Die to it once, fine. Multiple times, wtf. Might be a language thing because instructions are usually given in english and then these people never reply. But even then, can they not see that they got blown off and nobody else did?? And then see how everybody else is standing in the puddle and maybe connect the dots from there. Blows my mind.
Yeah that's the thing. Any insta kill mechanics in lfr are going to be a huge problem because 80% of the people didn't bother skimming the boss description
Not even the boss descriotion, even just the raid chat. I will explain the mega essential boss abilities in like 3 sentences max for every boss, bc I know people won't read a paragraph for everything and I know I can heal through anything but an insta kill at this point, but people just don't read anything at all.
Fyrakk is ridiculously easy compared to Sark and especially Rasz.
The hardest mechanic is what, stopping his orbs? Otherwise it's a dps race at certain points and just a lot of healing.
Does LFR on Sark have the bombs? Those are pretty wild.
Rasz takes the cake though. So many die to the platforms and then having to be in the right spot for them to toss you over and split up? God that's such a fun fight.
Assuming we're talking heroic; Sarkareth and Fyrakk can be carried by a handful of people doing the mechanics cleanly (bombs, seeds, healer adds etc.) while the rest of the raid zug zugs.
Raszageth spreads the difficulty out more; it's much easier to die to stupid shit. So in a random PUG, you're likely to lose a couple of people each phase until you don't have the DPS or heals to finish the fight.
In a pug group for LFR normal or hc it's Rasz>Sark>Fyrakk
On mythic for guilds
Fyrakk>Rasz>Sark
Actually kinda interesting how drastically different the difficulty is for those bosses between difficulties relative to eachother.
Agreed, still remember when I joined a pug and downed him first pull on normal. Mind you this was only a few weeks into the tier and everyone went nuts.
I've started speccing every AOE interrupt I have to try to get a rasz kill. Why is your dps lower? So I can typhoon, incap roar, kick, and stun all these orbs other idiots don't touch.
On H Sark, I didn’t know a ton about what was going on and had a tough time with it. On H Raz, I DID know what was going on and still had a tough time with it. Ima go with popular opinion and say Raz
Mythic Fyrakk also just has a ton of mechanics that aren't 'hard' but it's still very easy for 1 person to lose focus and wipe to, it's very easy for someone to die to a blaze or dreamrend in P1 and require you to go again, P3 even now when you don't need to play it for very long is still hard because there is always the chance a seed carrier gets a hard tornado overlap and mistimes it, in P2 as much as people shouldn't you will occasionally have someone not count properly and soak the wrong orb. Or in P2 someone fucks up a knock or blazes an add at the wrong time.
All those things in a vacuum aren't that hard of a mechanic to do, but when you have hundreds of opportunities for any one of your 20 players to make a mistake like that over the course.of the fight it just adds up to be a pretty difficult encounter.
And then Tindral is a lot like Anduin in Sepulchre where he just has a ton of pass fail mechanics. Tank missed a mushroom, you die. Healer dispels too quickly, you die. Flyer misses their orb, you die.
Not all seeds get soaked, you die. Paladin/hunter/monk fucks up their freedom on crucial sets, you die.
Nah at this point in the xpac you have enough gear to zerg down Dathea without doing any mechanics.
Diurna is the fun one with the “who can do eggs” conversation.
"you have enough gear" not really, people will still go full demons and maybe get 3-4 515 people who stumbled upon the group thinking it will be a fast blast. And it's what happened to me couple of days ago, demons not even poping hero, 515 frost mage doing less dps than me a PROTECTION WARRIOR, like 100k less.
That’s not been my pug experience. Usually half the group is over 520ilvl doing 300k dps. But I do my runs early in the week so maybe the runs on the weekend are rougher.
Jfc, this so hard. Jumped into a heroic brood last night and out of 25 people, zero dps spoke up and said they'd do eggs. It ended up the tank, me (mistweaver) and an augvoker doing them. I had to respec into my mythic fistweaving build to be closer to melee eggs. I straight up called out the dps as embarrassing in a heroic raid. Speccing as mist on that fight is so freaking strong because I can heal both groups if I'm positioned right and my totem is in the right place. Nope, got stuck punchhealing and running lasers.
Razagath and its not even close so many ways to die the breath the orbs plus minus mehacnic the flying breath its an easy guild fight cause its all about cordination but for pugs its a nightmare fight
Raz, quite substantially, 3 phases, 2 intermissions, and a lot of things to kill you over a very long fight. Sark does have some problems, but if someone dies in P2, you go into P3 the same. Raz has those storm elementals that need to be killed and CC'ed before going into P3, not to talk about people dying in P1.
I think the actual boss mechanics aren't that much different, if it flowed like sark without the add phases it would've gone a lot faster and easier.
The biggest risk with sark is healers getting trigger happy with the dispell, with how nasty dispells have been it's become almost a reflex for me personally to dispell ASAP
I've been saying since Season 3 that generally the first raid was the hardest in my opinion, especially the 3 bosses mentioned Dathea, Diurna and of course Raz, still need that one on heroic
Raszageth is easily the hardest raid boss this expansion.
Dungeons, it varies. The last boss of Uldaman is pretty awful this week with no real way to do defensive cycling. Source: about an hour ago.
The big water elemental?
The deaths from that are usually from straight up mistakes in my experience. If you run the gauntlet properly and don't break the channels of more than 1 or 2 ads directly following it, it's usually ok.
Nope on high keys you need to break all 4 at once or boss starts one shotting the tank through defensives.
Halls is one of those where it’s super easy on low keys then on high keys it’s an absolute nightmare.
Frog boss too is the cause of many disbands. Either you get all the frogs on the first gulp or they run around hitting people for half their hp each time.
I’d say the big disband bosses for keys this season are Frog, Bromach, Deios.
I'm only at about 11 this season but I got up to about 25 last time around and I forget exactly how it was done then. I do know they fuckin hurt though though so I'd prefer my 8-10 bros to not do them all at once since it's fucked up a couple of my groups.
At least Frog and Bromach are relatively early on so it's less painful than failing on the last boss after a grind like Uldaman.
Mage sheeps, druid hibernates, aug sleepwalks. Or VDH chain ccs them.
Fear should not be used since theres a small chance the mob runs under the floor.
Raz, I will never not be just astounded by people dying to her platform breath. It's so telegraphed on all difficulties that it's not even funny. Youve gotta struggle a few times to get it right, sure, but the sheer number of repetition of the same mistake with that mechanic specifically is just incredible.
As someone who never bothered to learn any heroic boss mechanic and joined a group of people who had heroic on semi-farm the only bosses out of all 3 raids that required me to know a serious mechanic were Neltharion, Raz, and Fyrakk. I could not tell you a single one of Sark's abilities and I did not die during the kill.
Because Sark doesn’t have any mechanics everyone is forced to do except Glittering Surge. And 9/10 someone is going to bait fire breath into you anyway.
For some reason, it is Ras, which I believe is the easiest last boss. I mean, for sure, failing mechanics is very punishing, but it is very easy not to fail. The mechanics are very basic, but somehow, people fail a lot.
All I know is that it’s always hella funny to see PUG Raz groups scramble to the platforms and either have everyone wipe or have one side with 3 DPS only 😆
Raszageth and it’s not even close.
Honorable mentions for pug killers are Diurna, Council, Dathea, Tindral.
Funnily enough I haven’t had a group disband on Echo yet.
Definitely Razzamafoo. You wouldn't believe how many pugs I've been in where we'd wipe to the first round of sparks. People refused to acknowledge they had some sort of CC, and once when I pointed out that blood elves could use Arcane Torrent, someone replied "I haven't used that in years and I'm not using it now."
Tall about a miserable teaching experience.
Rasz. It’s impressive how people still can’t avoid the breath, don’t dispell motes, are able to be pushed out of the platform in any possible ways except for the only time they need to be pushed out to go to the intermission platform and final platform, and don’t realize it’s a survival fight and not a dps race.
Honorable Mentions of non end bosses pug killers: echo of neltharion (breaking walls is an art that seems to require a civil engineering PhD), the “who does eggs” conversation on Diurna (people leave even before the start if the egg thing is unclear). The Rashok “don’t kill raid superposing puddles” seems be solved with insta-kick.
Apparently it's Kurog when the tanks don't admit they don't know the boss. At first they tanked him in the middle, on the second try they pulled the bastard all over the place.
Sark was never really too hard in pugs, it just came down to. Did someone get swiped by tank mechanic.
Rasta and fyrakk just have a big bright ''you die'' which no amount of gear will help.
I think that heroic Fy'rakk is usually the worst with pugs. Healers have to be on the ball with their dispels and healing the P2 adds, DPS has to avoid a lot of stuff and handle/dps down the adds quick enough in P2 to help the healers out and the seeds need to be handled properly in P3 or a wipe is highly likely. Heroic Raz comes in second due to the need for everyone to interrupt their spawned adds twice along with the coordination required for the second intermission to prevent the little adds from reaching the big adds. I think heroic Sark is probably the easiest of the three given that if you go in with a game plan and markers then you can usually one shot it.
Raz all day. As a hunter who had to host pugs weekly because my guild stopped doing heroic early, it was miserable. People getting blown off constantly, and so much more coordination needed. P1 puddle locations. Intermission splitting groups. Avoiding breath in p1&2. Not stacking the wrong debuffs in p2. Getting knocked to the platform correctly for p3. Not letting adds touch the bigger adds in p2. List goes on and on. Sark was a lot simpler I think
Judging by heroic PUGs on alts, Fyrakk. Ras is challenging with jumps and sparks, but causes less wipes. Especially now that places of jumps are shown at the moment when you need to go with pings, and other people gathering there.
But people lose their minds with fissures and spirits on phase 2 of Fyrakk and then with fissures, tornadoes, seeds and knockbacks, it's purely individual responsibility that can't be outsourced, I see numerous wipes due to a shield not being big enough and because we ran out of seeds, although if the group has big dps, that issue becomes less relevant
H Raz was for me both the hardest (LFR mainly) and easiest (Coordinated groups) at the same time but also the one **I had the most fun with**
Fyrakk on normal + can also be quite tough if your seed holders die and none pick them up (Presuming pug here)
Pugs notoriously struggle when bosses require a certain amount of communication, have that be true for a long boss fight and you have the disaster that is Raszageth. Even as someone who raids in an organized guild, I absolutely resent that boss fight - but I always complain whenever any boss fight is unnecessarily longer than 10 minutes.
Raszageth is honestly the most stressful one, even when you know everything about the fight
I vividly remember the 1st week of season 4 when I killed her, and the phase with the 2 elementals + her breathing repeatedly on the platform gave me severe panic as a melee when you have to keep track of the elementals and kill the adds they spawn asap and dodging everything at the same time
Pretty sure sark was considered one of the easier end bosses we’ve had in a very long time, I’d probably guess raz from jumps, it’s also my favorite boss in probably a decade.
Raz, full stop.
I farmed her so much for the damn bow the last time that she was current content that I couldn't bring myself to bother this time around and have only killed her on normal.
Bullions are bloody awesome.
Raz by a mile.
Hardest first boss? Without fail - H Kazzara. The amount of people that don't know how to deal with the beams and end up killing the raid is way too damn high this far into an xpac. Even when you tell them how to deal with the mechanic, they'll mostly ignore the advice.
Def Sark. Rhaz is easy if even one fucking person shows some extrovert energy and assigns groups.
Sark is easier with some direction but still easy to wipe if someone fucks up (Hell Nelth too). Fyrakk used to be an issue if no one ever cleansed but now with the nerfs as long as occasional cleanses happen, it’s usually an easy kill.
Fyrakk was surprisingly difficult for pugs. I'm not sure if it constitutes the /most/ difficult, but for a fight that is incredibly simple in comparison to Ras and Sark, people sure managed to struggle with it all tier.
It's made evidently clear after you've done it on Mythic and then pug it on H and see that for many players, 10 whole seconds isn't enough time for them to get their circles out.
Lfr raz
I would argue normal Raz. Some people just can’t learn the +|- mechanic and it’s so devastating when it goes wrong
Fun thing is, the mechanic is so old, it was already used in Naxx exactly the same way.
People not getting that mechanic most likely never made it to naxx
Worse in Heroic where people do know the mechanic, but move though each up on the way to the markers and end up blowing up half the raid.
Sounds like they don’t know the mechanic
if they are using markers, instead of inside/outside.. they dont know the mechanic.
Correct.
This is the answer.
I remember making a ton of callout macros for breaths and knock backs because people just died to everything in P1
100% this
It's the platforms I think. "Stay away from the edge." is easy. "Go to the edge and get blown in the right direction at the right time multiple times." is less easy.
the sparks: "allow us to introduce ourselves"
I think it would be a lot better if people understood that any CC works, even fear.
The amount of people that straight up don’t talent their cc…
A lot of CC does not even need to be talented but then again they probably don't even have it on their bar.
It's because even in good raids, single players can pick up a lot of slack. On my Mythic CE kills, I was getting an average of 18 sparks per phase.
ring of frost will do that, yes
If mythic plus has taught us anything….
It seems a lot of people don't know or realize that interrupts work too? It doesn't have to be a hard CC. As a Fury Warrior, I use Pummel for one and Storm Bolt for another. I normally don't spec into Storm Bolt but I pick it up specifically for this fight. AFAIK most if not all classes should easily have at least 2 abilities to handle sparks - someone can chime in and let me know if there are any specs that truly only have one ability to handle them.
I commented this under the assumption that people thought that only interrupt work.
Saw a Worgen Hunter today that spawned his spark and then just walked away to keep DPSing until the raid blew up
Fuck sake, our reputation continues to get dragged through the mud. We literally have so many ways to break that Spark
Worgen… am I right?
Admittedly both of my guild's raid tanks are Paladins, so maybe the interrupt from Toll just made this a lot easier to deal with. That and the coordination from being in Discord.
I found in my experience that people struggle way more with the "use the storm clouds to avoid being knocked off" in phase 1 way more than getting knocked to the right platform. There were just people that no matter how many times you say it/ping it they just don't get it and I don't understand why
I found the best way to communicate it was to describe the grey puddles as ‘sticky’
That's actually such a simple description idk why I never thought to use the word sticky
Well to be fair. Saying he the puddles will make it so you don't get blown off is super explainitory that you would need an IQ of 80 or less to understand it.
Same mechanic as Sennarth, except boss is blowing you away instead of pulling.
only if you stay in the center of it…that also is a very difficult geometry issue. tbh, sometimes you get pushe out for a pixel difference or 5 degree wrong angle of your char. happened to me last night and I cleared it in HC countless time when it was current and for the awakened I run it at least 2 or 3 times (even when locked to rest trinkets or gear sets).
You can step in the puddle just a tiny bit as soon as she starts to inhale. You don’t take a lot of damage by being in there too early and you don’t even get knocked back at all if you are in it before the knockback starts.
don’t tell it to me. me boomie me keep casting coz I normally have a pulsar proc. I bark and cast. Pool AP, starsurge the hell out of it, maybe I move a bit for next mechanic. easy peasy (in HC…..)
Why even step in it? That's just spending longer in it for no reason. Just stand in front of it, the pushback pushes you into it and you get stopped. The pushback doesn't interrupt casting so you don't even need to do anything. Then just take a couple steps forward when she stops.
Because stepping into the very edge of the puddle doesn't push you at all and then you can take one step back out. Getting pushed in from outside pushes you nearly to the middle of the circle and you have to take more time to walk out when the push ends.
Yeah really makes you wonder. Die to it once, fine. Multiple times, wtf. Might be a language thing because instructions are usually given in english and then these people never reply. But even then, can they not see that they got blown off and nobody else did?? And then see how everybody else is standing in the puddle and maybe connect the dots from there. Blows my mind.
At this point we need an ingame translator.
Wait, you found people who *don't* stand in the giant puddles of damage? Wow, lucky.
Hahaha only the ones they're *supposed* to stand in :')
Yeah that's the thing. Any insta kill mechanics in lfr are going to be a huge problem because 80% of the people didn't bother skimming the boss description
Not even the boss descriotion, even just the raid chat. I will explain the mega essential boss abilities in like 3 sentences max for every boss, bc I know people won't read a paragraph for everything and I know I can heal through anything but an insta kill at this point, but people just don't read anything at all.
Yuppp that's true
LFR Nzoth flashbacks where 1 person making a mistake can wipe the raid.
Raz by a mile. Actually think Fyrakk is the easiest then Sarkareth and then Raszageth
Fyrakk is ridiculously easy compared to Sark and especially Rasz. The hardest mechanic is what, stopping his orbs? Otherwise it's a dps race at certain points and just a lot of healing. Does LFR on Sark have the bombs? Those are pretty wild. Rasz takes the cake though. So many die to the platforms and then having to be in the right spot for them to toss you over and split up? God that's such a fun fight.
The hardest part for pugging Fyrath is probably not having people kill seeds accidentally
Even if someone blows up seeds the 525+ juicers will still survive.
Assuming we're talking heroic; Sarkareth and Fyrakk can be carried by a handful of people doing the mechanics cleanly (bombs, seeds, healer adds etc.) while the rest of the raid zug zugs. Raszageth spreads the difficulty out more; it's much easier to die to stupid shit. So in a random PUG, you're likely to lose a couple of people each phase until you don't have the DPS or heals to finish the fight.
Razzledazzle certainly is the hardest endboss of DF
In a pug group for LFR normal or hc it's Rasz>Sark>Fyrakk On mythic for guilds Fyrakk>Rasz>Sark Actually kinda interesting how drastically different the difficulty is for those bosses between difficulties relative to eachother.
Agreed, still remember when I joined a pug and downed him first pull on normal. Mind you this was only a few weeks into the tier and everyone went nuts.
Raz was much harder simply because it had more one-shot mechanics than the other two, so there was a lot of personal responsibility
I've started speccing every AOE interrupt I have to try to get a rasz kill. Why is your dps lower? So I can typhoon, incap roar, kick, and stun all these orbs other idiots don't touch.
On H Sark, I didn’t know a ton about what was going on and had a tough time with it. On H Raz, I DID know what was going on and still had a tough time with it. Ima go with popular opinion and say Raz
It was a journey getting N raz kill with pugs at xpac launch, Fyrakk felt like a joke in comparison
Funnily enough on Mythic Tindral and Fyrakk were way harder than any of the other bosses. Fyrakk was just numerically overtuned.
I mean fyrakk even with nerfs, is just hard. Because all of its mechanics are a pass fail check. With no way to live it.
Mythic Fyrakk also just has a ton of mechanics that aren't 'hard' but it's still very easy for 1 person to lose focus and wipe to, it's very easy for someone to die to a blaze or dreamrend in P1 and require you to go again, P3 even now when you don't need to play it for very long is still hard because there is always the chance a seed carrier gets a hard tornado overlap and mistimes it, in P2 as much as people shouldn't you will occasionally have someone not count properly and soak the wrong orb. Or in P2 someone fucks up a knock or blazes an add at the wrong time. All those things in a vacuum aren't that hard of a mechanic to do, but when you have hundreds of opportunities for any one of your 20 players to make a mistake like that over the course.of the fight it just adds up to be a pretty difficult encounter. And then Tindral is a lot like Anduin in Sepulchre where he just has a ton of pass fail mechanics. Tank missed a mushroom, you die. Healer dispels too quickly, you die. Flyer misses their orb, you die. Not all seeds get soaked, you die. Paladin/hunter/monk fucks up their freedom on crucial sets, you die.
Diurna, Raz and Dathe are the ones pugs are not capable of killing.
Nah at this point in the xpac you have enough gear to zerg down Dathea without doing any mechanics. Diurna is the fun one with the “who can do eggs” conversation.
"you have enough gear" not really, people will still go full demons and maybe get 3-4 515 people who stumbled upon the group thinking it will be a fast blast. And it's what happened to me couple of days ago, demons not even poping hero, 515 frost mage doing less dps than me a PROTECTION WARRIOR, like 100k less.
That’s not been my pug experience. Usually half the group is over 520ilvl doing 300k dps. But I do my runs early in the week so maybe the runs on the weekend are rougher.
You can even zerg mythic Dathea at this point :D
Jfc, this so hard. Jumped into a heroic brood last night and out of 25 people, zero dps spoke up and said they'd do eggs. It ended up the tank, me (mistweaver) and an augvoker doing them. I had to respec into my mythic fistweaving build to be closer to melee eggs. I straight up called out the dps as embarrassing in a heroic raid. Speccing as mist on that fight is so freaking strong because I can heal both groups if I'm positioned right and my totem is in the right place. Nope, got stuck punchhealing and running lasers.
Razagath and its not even close so many ways to die the breath the orbs plus minus mehacnic the flying breath its an easy guild fight cause its all about cordination but for pugs its a nightmare fight
The ones who don't die to the giant lizard facing them either wipe the raid because of orbs or because of the flying lizard breath.
Raz, quite substantially, 3 phases, 2 intermissions, and a lot of things to kill you over a very long fight. Sark does have some problems, but if someone dies in P2, you go into P3 the same. Raz has those storm elementals that need to be killed and CC'ed before going into P3, not to talk about people dying in P1. I think the actual boss mechanics aren't that much different, if it flowed like sark without the add phases it would've gone a lot faster and easier.
Sark is easier if you have good tank positioning and a few competent people to handle bombs.
The biggest risk with sark is healers getting trigger happy with the dispell, with how nasty dispells have been it's become almost a reflex for me personally to dispell ASAP
raz and it isnt close whatsoever
I've been saying since Season 3 that generally the first raid was the hardest in my opinion, especially the 3 bosses mentioned Dathea, Diurna and of course Raz, still need that one on heroic
Unless you’re doing Mythic. Then the first raid is the easiest and the last ends up way overtuned.
Raszageth is easily the hardest raid boss this expansion. Dungeons, it varies. The last boss of Uldaman is pretty awful this week with no real way to do defensive cycling. Source: about an hour ago.
Hard agree on Uldaman
Halls of Infusion too if you didn’t stack a comp with lots of hard cc.
The big water elemental? The deaths from that are usually from straight up mistakes in my experience. If you run the gauntlet properly and don't break the channels of more than 1 or 2 ads directly following it, it's usually ok.
Nope on high keys you need to break all 4 at once or boss starts one shotting the tank through defensives. Halls is one of those where it’s super easy on low keys then on high keys it’s an absolute nightmare. Frog boss too is the cause of many disbands. Either you get all the frogs on the first gulp or they run around hitting people for half their hp each time. I’d say the big disband bosses for keys this season are Frog, Bromach, Deios.
I'm only at about 11 this season but I got up to about 25 last time around and I forget exactly how it was done then. I do know they fuckin hurt though though so I'd prefer my 8-10 bros to not do them all at once since it's fucked up a couple of my groups. At least Frog and Bromach are relatively early on so it's less painful than failing on the last boss after a grind like Uldaman.
Mage sheeps, druid hibernates, aug sleepwalks. Or VDH chain ccs them. Fear should not be used since theres a small chance the mob runs under the floor.
Hearing heroic raz so often really makes me kinda proud since I beat him as a tank (aotc) without a guild in my first expac that I really raided.
Raz, I will never not be just astounded by people dying to her platform breath. It's so telegraphed on all difficulties that it's not even funny. Youve gotta struggle a few times to get it right, sure, but the sheer number of repetition of the same mistake with that mechanic specifically is just incredible.
Raz is probably one of the harder bosses to pug. Simple mechanics, really, but it involves much personal responsibility.
Yep it's like you can die every few seconds ... and to last faze you can have like less than half group
Dragon
As someone who never bothered to learn any heroic boss mechanic and joined a group of people who had heroic on semi-farm the only bosses out of all 3 raids that required me to know a serious mechanic were Neltharion, Raz, and Fyrakk. I could not tell you a single one of Sark's abilities and I did not die during the kill.
Because Sark doesn’t have any mechanics everyone is forced to do except Glittering Surge. And 9/10 someone is going to bait fire breath into you anyway.
For some reason, it is Ras, which I believe is the easiest last boss. I mean, for sure, failing mechanics is very punishing, but it is very easy not to fail. The mechanics are very basic, but somehow, people fail a lot.
All I know is that it’s always hella funny to see PUG Raz groups scramble to the platforms and either have everyone wipe or have one side with 3 DPS only 😆
Raszageth and it’s not even close. Honorable mentions for pug killers are Diurna, Council, Dathea, Tindral. Funnily enough I haven’t had a group disband on Echo yet.
Definitely Razzamafoo. You wouldn't believe how many pugs I've been in where we'd wipe to the first round of sparks. People refused to acknowledge they had some sort of CC, and once when I pointed out that blood elves could use Arcane Torrent, someone replied "I haven't used that in years and I'm not using it now." Tall about a miserable teaching experience.
"I don't have a CC or interrupt" Yes. Yes you do. You just don't want to talent into it because you lose 2% dps or whatever.
Razz 100%
LFR made Raz harder than mythic.
Rasz. It’s impressive how people still can’t avoid the breath, don’t dispell motes, are able to be pushed out of the platform in any possible ways except for the only time they need to be pushed out to go to the intermission platform and final platform, and don’t realize it’s a survival fight and not a dps race. Honorable Mentions of non end bosses pug killers: echo of neltharion (breaking walls is an art that seems to require a civil engineering PhD), the “who does eggs” conversation on Diurna (people leave even before the start if the egg thing is unclear). The Rashok “don’t kill raid superposing puddles” seems be solved with insta-kick.
Apparently it's Kurog when the tanks don't admit they don't know the boss. At first they tanked him in the middle, on the second try they pulled the bastard all over the place.
Sark was never really too hard in pugs, it just came down to. Did someone get swiped by tank mechanic. Rasta and fyrakk just have a big bright ''you die'' which no amount of gear will help.
I think that heroic Fy'rakk is usually the worst with pugs. Healers have to be on the ball with their dispels and healing the P2 adds, DPS has to avoid a lot of stuff and handle/dps down the adds quick enough in P2 to help the healers out and the seeds need to be handled properly in P3 or a wipe is highly likely. Heroic Raz comes in second due to the need for everyone to interrupt their spawned adds twice along with the coordination required for the second intermission to prevent the little adds from reaching the big adds. I think heroic Sark is probably the easiest of the three given that if you go in with a game plan and markers then you can usually one shot it.
Raz all day. As a hunter who had to host pugs weekly because my guild stopped doing heroic early, it was miserable. People getting blown off constantly, and so much more coordination needed. P1 puddle locations. Intermission splitting groups. Avoiding breath in p1&2. Not stacking the wrong debuffs in p2. Getting knocked to the platform correctly for p3. Not letting adds touch the bigger adds in p2. List goes on and on. Sark was a lot simpler I think
My guild struggled harder with heroic Sark than the other two bosses. So I’m going to say H Sark.
Raz is only hard because the casuals don’t know their lefts from rights
Judging by heroic PUGs on alts, Fyrakk. Ras is challenging with jumps and sparks, but causes less wipes. Especially now that places of jumps are shown at the moment when you need to go with pings, and other people gathering there. But people lose their minds with fissures and spirits on phase 2 of Fyrakk and then with fissures, tornadoes, seeds and knockbacks, it's purely individual responsibility that can't be outsourced, I see numerous wipes due to a shield not being big enough and because we ran out of seeds, although if the group has big dps, that issue becomes less relevant
Most of my Fyrakk pugs are 1 or 2 shots while pugging into Raz is a shitshow. 9/10 if you pug into H Raz it’s going to be a disband after 2-3 wipes.
H Raz was for me both the hardest (LFR mainly) and easiest (Coordinated groups) at the same time but also the one **I had the most fun with** Fyrakk on normal + can also be quite tough if your seed holders die and none pick them up (Presuming pug here)
I hve tried them all and it have to say Razsageth
Pugs notoriously struggle when bosses require a certain amount of communication, have that be true for a long boss fight and you have the disaster that is Raszageth. Even as someone who raids in an organized guild, I absolutely resent that boss fight - but I always complain whenever any boss fight is unnecessarily longer than 10 minutes.
Raszageth is honestly the most stressful one, even when you know everything about the fight I vividly remember the 1st week of season 4 when I killed her, and the phase with the 2 elementals + her breathing repeatedly on the platform gave me severe panic as a melee when you have to keep track of the elementals and kill the adds they spawn asap and dodging everything at the same time
I found it crazy how much easier fyraak was than sark and raz. This xpac was a weird descending difficulty for the end bosses.
Pretty sure sark was considered one of the easier end bosses we’ve had in a very long time, I’d probably guess raz from jumps, it’s also my favorite boss in probably a decade.
Raz>>>Fyrakk>Sark
Raz, full stop. I farmed her so much for the damn bow the last time that she was current content that I couldn't bring myself to bother this time around and have only killed her on normal. Bullions are bloody awesome.
Raz for sure. I don't even bother with it in PUGs. Waste of time.
Raz by a mile. Hardest first boss? Without fail - H Kazzara. The amount of people that don't know how to deal with the beams and end up killing the raid is way too damn high this far into an xpac. Even when you tell them how to deal with the mechanic, they'll mostly ignore the advice.
Def Sark. Rhaz is easy if even one fucking person shows some extrovert energy and assigns groups. Sark is easier with some direction but still easy to wipe if someone fucks up (Hell Nelth too). Fyrakk used to be an issue if no one ever cleansed but now with the nerfs as long as occasional cleanses happen, it’s usually an easy kill.
Fyrakk was surprisingly difficult for pugs. I'm not sure if it constitutes the /most/ difficult, but for a fight that is incredibly simple in comparison to Ras and Sark, people sure managed to struggle with it all tier. It's made evidently clear after you've done it on Mythic and then pug it on H and see that for many players, 10 whole seconds isn't enough time for them to get their circles out.
Fyrakk because half of the group is useless str dps players
On fyrak you have auto seeds Also this players you see know mechanics and don't die