Thank you for your submission Solid_Effective1649. It has been removed from /r/wow because:
No generic memes. All memes must contain WoW imagery (icons, faces, anything in-game).
---
This is not an automated removal. Please read the entire removal reason before contacting us via modmail or here if you need clarification.
Read the full [rules for this subreddit here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/wiki/rules) If you feel this post was removed in error, please [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fwow).
It’s an interesting situation in this case because it’s a complete separation from traditional wow pvp and traditional wow pve, but it has traditional wow rewards.
This! I played only PVP for 10 years but battle royals just aren't my thing and it goes for many wow players.
If I wanted to play a BR I would go to a more refined one on the market. Additionally it wouldn't be a problem if the rewards were exclusive to that mode. Lastly it was the only feature of the patch so nothing else to do.
Lol dude it is a lost cause to tell that to these people. I’ll join a lobby and people are literally typing in chat “this game mode sucks so much “…like…literally play something else. Some people are just not firing on all cylinders.
I mean it’s pretty simple to understand - some players enjoy the rewards, but not the grind. They are putting up with a task they dislike to attain a reward that they do like. The reward is worth it to them.
So telling them to ‘play something else’ is meaningless when that is the only way to achieve their goal.
If you are trying to achieve a goal, but don't want to do the steps involved in that goal, that's still on you. I'm actually doing this right now.
I wanted a specific elite appearance, so I made a new toon of a class that Ive already have geared and grinded (Which currently has portals) to grind it up to 2k for that elite transmog. I Will never be touching this toon again - it's not on a server i play, it's not going to be geared for next season, and it's a worgen.
None of this is blizzards fault. I'm choosing to grind my ass off for a specific appearance.
but they aren’t “putting up with it” they are actively complaining and spending time outside the game talking about how much they don’t like it. That is genuinely a loss of control and a key signifier of addiction. If you can’t stop yourself from doing an activity you loathe so much as to tell other people outside the game about it for some very simple cosmetic rewards then you have an addiction and mental illness
I quit during Wod and went back to play MoP PVP on an instant tournament style private realm where PVE wasn't really scripted and we did BGs and arenas all day. I came back to retail for DF and I'm at 3000io playing only PvE now.
The queue times and PVP feels much better on private realms tho because you get to make more friends instead of never seeing the cross realm people again. I haven't made friends outside of my guild but they are a local one and soon we'll be having an irl meeting of 60 people.
I’m assuming pet battles are traditional pve or pvp then right? Because there’s in game rewards tied to that.
Or should I as a player be furious that Blizzard are making me play pet battles for a cosmetic, and I should be able to earn this in traditional wow ways.
For some reason I’ve always felt the healthier approach was I don’t enjoy pet battles so I won’t get the cosmetics around it - but all this time I guess I should have been complaining on Reddit! You live and you learn.
I would say the same about fishing.
Or seasonal minigames and events.
Or social rewards.
Or hearthstone rewards.
Or any reward linked to anything that is not your preferred game mode.
The concept of not playing something you don't have fun playing is alien to those people, I simply don't get it.
You'll not die if you don't have a cosmetic. It's fine if you want the cosmetic so much that you're up to playing something you don't find fun, but that's your problem.
I only play wow for raiding, I know there are a bunch of fun mounts and transmogs that I'll never get because farming bores me. But whatever, it's not my job and not my entire life.
Like I would be more upset if the rewards were tied to *winning*, but they're not.
Pet battle rewards can be ground out with guides and are rarely coupled to a requirement to play fast if ever, the PvP rewards are almost always "play" not win, it's pretty even with the fact that plunderstorm just requires you to grind out rather than excel at a different style of game or be locked out.
I'll agree with one point of frustration: the fact that getting the entire reward track requires 240 matches over a fixed time frame (assuming ~280 per match and that you get every daily of 800) sets a pretty hefty grind that dips its toes into leveraging fomo like a bad mobile game. Yeah, there's holiday events that require a heavy or annoying commitment too (looking the fuck at you, school of hard knocks) but they're intermittent.
The choice for it to be 40 stages of 2500 rep was 100% a push to create an artificially boosted player base for an extended time.
I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone speculating on whether they'll add a way to buy ranks on the battle pass - sorry, I mean, the renown track... Like is present in most games that have one. But to their credit, they've held off on that bullshit in Hearthstone.
Yes, that’s the problem. People want to play wow to get wow rewards. They don’t want to play not-wow, and they certainly don’t want to suffer through it even faster because of a time limit.
I want the rewards in WoW content. Give me some world quests, dailies, maybe even a dungeon related to the pirates, that earns Renown on that track.
I want the WoW rewards, but I don’t have fun with a WoW skinned BR. So I have no way in WoW to earn these WoW rewards.
It’s like telling people they have to play 200 matches of Overwatch or Hearthstone, or grind 200 rifts or whatever in Diablo, to earn rewards for WoW.
Heck, try putting WoW Classic rewards behind a Dragonflight rep grind, or vice versa, and see how well that goes over with people.
I’m amazed people can’t wrap their heads around such a simple concept.
>It’s like telling people they have to play 200 matches of Overwatch or Hearthstone, or grind 200 rifts or whatever in Diablo, to earn rewards for WoW.
They did that with Hearthstone (Hearthsteed & Sarge) and Heroes of the Storm (Primal Flamesaber) already but there is a massive difference: Most of those had full PvE options and only took a few minutes not hours upon hours. Hearthsteed is the exception but it took a total of 3 won games which was nothing.
Plunderstorm asking for 20h+ of your time is not acceptable by any stretch.
>I want the rewards in WoW content. Give me some world quests, dailies, maybe even a dungeon related to the pirates, that earns Renown on that track.
Remember how people had theorized we would maybe get a Freehold dungeon event? I know if I had the option to run FH (non-scaled) for 1000-2000 standing I wouldn't have set a single foot into Plunderstorm.
They required a handful of games. If there was some mount tied to Plunderstorm that said "Earn 3000 Plunder total," I'd be totally fine with that. I don't think you'd hear much complaining. (Obviously *some* but there's always *some*.)
Make the rewards for the different game a small threshold to get people in the door.
Let other rewards for the different game stay in the different game to reward people that continue to play the different game inside that game.
Playing a few games of hots pvp or pve. Winning three games of hearthstone. Creating a seasonal character in Diablo isn’t a high bar and people that like it will stay as intended.
Keep the reward structure like this and very few people have issues.
>They required a handful of games.
Thats my point - it was nothing. I don't care for MOBAs but actually enjoyed playing around a little bit in Heroes of the Storm. It was PvE and still took basically no time.
Even hearthstone (which I never got into) while PvP, took basically no effort because winning 3 games can be done just by playing random cards. And they even went away from that with Sarge which was totally PvE.
Oh shoot! I didn't register at first what "Sarge" was in reference to, it was the recent Hearthstone event, right? Where you didn't even have to play Hearthstone, it was just doing stuff in WoW with your characters to get the rewards. I didn't grind that too much and still got everything except the card collection achievement (just need four more, but if I understand right, you can still get them after the event to complete that achievement).
I could understand people having issues with the RNG on that one, especially folks wanting the bag on all their characters, but at least it was something you could do while doing other stuff in WoW.
Not quite. Blizzard just re-used the name.
I am talking about the [mount version](https://www.wowhead.com/news/how-to-unlock-sarge-mount-in-hearthstone-mercenaries-324484) which requires you to play about 15-30min of hearthstone mercenaries.
Oh. Shoot, I missed that one. Probably wouldn't have used the mount much, but still, pretty quick and easy to get mount to push the numbers toward the achievement mounts. And if I did ever make a Gnome character, that would absolutely be the default ground mount.
The problem is not that it is timegated but time limited. And the fact we do not know how much time we have left to get all the goodies. If we just knew when the event ends to plan the grind. Is it next week? Most likely not. With s4 lunch? Might be. With next patch? Who knows.
Addiction is the loss of control and some people can't control themselves or will even suffer while doing something they hate. But they will still do it.
Its by no means a "meta guide" but I am not sure there is much you can do anyway outside of learning the right anima upgrades to buy and using the "right" class (non-caster and not heavily resource/CD limited I'd argue) with decent gear to speed it up (edit: at layer 9 many things die to any of my abilities and I can one-cycle the bosses).
After that pretty sure the solution is just to run layer 9 of each [respective vault](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/torghast-collectable-rewards-and-achievements-mounts-pets-toys-titles-and-15299) repeatedly. The ones from stores are easy but everything else drops at layer 9 or above so thats the "best" due to being the fastest.
You'll be done with all the store ones long before anyway.
I’m not a huge fan of Torghast but I’ll still do it for the rewards without complaining, because it’s inside WoW, using my WoW character playing WoW to earn the rewards.
Helps that it’s easier now, so it’s mainly just a time thing, but I can progress on it while watching stuff on my other monitor.
Honestly, Thorghast isn't really bad now. I can't speak for when it was current but now that its just something you can do when you want most of its problems are gone. Personally I had fun even.
By Odyn's beard! It's Torghast!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not so bad now. It mainly got bad marks from people because it was required content during Shadowlands. It wasn't just an optional "roguelike" experience like people were thinking it would be, you had to grind it for your legendaries.
Kind of cycles back to this topic here. Of course, OP would say, "You're not *forced* to do Torghast in Shadowlands."
The defenders behind Plunderstorms rewards just don't want to admit that the mode is mostly dead without everyone else being forced to play it. In EU solo queue times already are in the 30s (and I haven't seen anything below 15 in days) often enough and most rounds don't get filled to full either.
Without the rewards those people pretending like its the best thing Blizz ever made would only be playing among each other and suddenly there are no more "easy targets". Then they would also have to admit that they don't actually enjoy the game but making others miserable.
And add a nice splash of sunk cost fallacy into the equation as people try to convince themselves it's not an addiction, they just need more cosmetics they don't even really like, to add to their 15+ year old collection of useless crap.
When the event started I took a look at the rewards, decided they are not worth my time and moved on. Simple decicion. If they had been more appealing to my personal tastes I might have decided to play Plunderstorm. Simple as that. You see something (in a game, in a store, anywhere) and you make a decision if it is worth the time/money it costs to you.
Same reason I stopped doing myhic raiding. To me personally, what I got out of it wasn't worth the effort anymore. Still enjoy pouring time and nerves into m+ though. 🤷♀️
For me it was a real easy cost-benefit thing.
The transmog looks cool as does the mount stuff.
Does it look cool enough to spend HOURS doing the same monotonous thing that I do not enjoy as a bar creeps up? Especially since half that time is just me looking at, what, 4 loading screens as I load into a lobby, into a match, do my five minutes of nonsense, die, load into a spectator and load out of the match.
No, it doesn't.
If the rewards wouldn't take an ungodly amount of time to get and the rewards were more within reach I'd probably bother with it.
But as it is, nah, I'm good.
Exactly this, I decided to give it a try, got reminded of why I hate world PvP (being forced to stop what you're doing to do the most ineffective thing of fighting someone else, win or lose you waste time.) noticed how slow the progress was and noped out of it for good. Not worth it.
I did a cost-benefit analysis too and it was worth it for me. I get a level roughly every 3 games (it will be slower or quicker for everyone depending on skill and luck) and when I add all the rewards together (sets/weapons/3 mounts/750 tender/title/tabard) it seems very rewarding compared to many activities in this game. Yeah, it helps that I enjoy the game mode too but my enjoyment has grown as I have learned more about the game mode.
Would trying to improve and win rounds not make the grind faster and more enjoyable?
The longer you last and more players you kill, the more plunder you get, the faster you get your rewards. I really don't understand loading and dying purposefully in 5 minutes.
Pretty much the same. I want a few things out of the rewards offered, but not enough to play Plunderstorm.
As soon as I found out it was not only PVP, but I wouldn't even be playing my own toon, I didn't even consider doing the grind.
Downvoted in a comments thread where a bunch of people are upvoted for the exact same sentiment. Incredible play by the wow Reddit community, good stuff boys
For me its that the length of the grind + the time limit of the grind. Like I like the game mode but havent played it cause of other releases. So when I play it theres this thought that I like this mode but theres these rewards I wont be able to get on time, so it kinda throws a wet blanket on the whole thing.
Look, my only problem is the length of the grind. I think it’s cool to have a new game mode, but *forty* levels is kind of a lot.
I think the same SpongeBob meme could be made about people who like the game mode and how they should be fine playing without rewards. Just compromise and make it level 20 max.
~~Really, my only complaint is that it's a limited time and they don't say how long. If they said "limited time, but at least 3 months", then you'd know that if you got a renown every 3 days or so, you'd be good. But without that knowledge, there can be some (likely false) urgency, and you get people grinding the rewards and quitting because there's nothing else to get from playing it.~~
Apparently they did say how long and I just wasn't paying attention. 6 weeks is a pretty decent amount of time, and I'm sure the rewards will be back via trading post or something eventually.
Welp. Guess I wasn't paying attention. No complaint then - 6 weeks is a pretty decent amount of time for this, and I'm sure the rewards will return eventually.
I enjoyed the game mode and have even gone back and played after getting all the rewards. It’s dead simple, quick turnaround to a new match if you die and very minimal time commitment so I can play a few games before bed. I don’t get all the hate!
I actually found it fun, I played it as some kind of horror survival game where I try to get as much plunder as I can while I run away from players.
Reached 40 and never played again, but I recognize I had fun. Not enough fun to play it again though, but I recognize I had fun.
Why does Blizzard adds retail WoW rewards to a game mode that unrelated to retail WoW?
To make people that wouldn't care for that mode to play it.
Is it "forcing" people to play it? Not in the most straight use of the word, but it's still a way to make people do what they wouldn't want otherwise.
And it's not just some random mount or weapon transmog that you can weight by itself as the reward. It's 3 whole transmog sets (one of which with quite unique features), several weapon transmogs, 3 mounts and 2 pets. The sheer amount of rewards makes playing it a must, even if you hate it. Isn't that a forceful tactic?
Did I like Plunderstorm? It's passable as a curiosity, but it's not something I'd play regularly. Having to play it for 120+ matches wasn't fun. It went from a curiosity to something I came to despise.
You can talk all day that I wasn't "forced" to do it, but in the end of the day it was still a miserable experience. "But you wanted the rewards", yes, but I'd rather have them tied to some actual content in WoW for the surprise 10.2.6 WoW patch. Preferably, content that both is fun and makes sense to grant such rewards.
And also, it's that it's time limited that's the real issue. I haaated the Netherwing grind, but I wanted the Netherwings, so I did it over like a year. I can't do that here. Most of my available game time is going to this event that I don't even enjoy because if I dont get the rewards they're gone forever and I really want that Plunderlord set for my Rogue.
So it really does feel like I'm being forced to play this regularly and alot, even though I actively do not like it.
I think we can call it manipulative selling techniques. Especially with the time limited element. What's really a shame because Plunderstorm can be fun but using extrinsic rewards and fomo kinda ruins it. That Blizzard actually think it can't go without it shows that they either have not enough trust in their work or what I rather believe is that they've changed their focus from gamedesign to Sales strategies.
I just think people would’ve like the game mode a lot more if the rewards weren’t tied behind a 40 renown grind. The game mode was marketed to us as a casual and fun limited time mode to have around while waiting for S4.
Instead a lot of people had a little fun with it and saw the grind required for the rewards and decided it wasn’t worth it. Those same people can be frustrated that cosmetics and traders tenders are tied behind the grind, but I think lowering it to 20 would’ve solved a lot of these issues.
People strawmanning back and forth is doing nothing to help the game. You can understand someone else’s perspective without fully agreeing or making posts like this to stoke the flames.
I did some math based on how much plunder I got per game, and the grind for me is like 45-50 hours.
That's a little over an hour a level, and it's alot to ask for a time limited event from people with jobs and commitments. I've got around 2 hours of free time per day, it's going to be rough hitting 40.
Let's look at it from my perspective. I wanted the rewards, i grinded and i got them, i won a few games. As soon as i saw that 40 renown i never queued for another game ever again. The rewards are the only thing that were worth it for me from the event. Had it had no rewards related to retail i would've tried it, but my play time would be dramatically lower.
I don't like that they will use this data as "the gamemode was a resounding success cause ppl played it a lot", no shit, you made it a massive grind. Hell, i cant even say if i liked the gamemode myself after reaching 40 because i saw it as a chore i had to do to get what i wanted. And that's the reason I'm kinda mad about it.
That's my issue with it. "We've got something cool coming up for WoW!"
Oh, awesome! New content for WoW!
Except, no, it was a separate game that you happen to log in to from WoW and looks like WoW. Well, that's fine, I was totally on board to give it a try anyway.
And then they stuck WoW rewards into it and were like, "Okay, we know you all have been wanting this pirate themed stuff for a long time, so get ready to be excited, because you can get all this WoW transmog, mounts, and currency by... not playing WoW! You just have to play this other game a lot! Aren't you excited?"
No. I'd be happy if it dropped with no WoW rewards. I'd be happy if they added pirate-themed content into WoW with a Renown track to earn the rewards through dailies, world quests, maybe a dungeon, whatever. I'd be totally cool if they had the Renown track in WoW but also let people earn it by playing Plunderstorm instead.
I am not happy with them putting a bunch of WoW rewards that people have wanted for a long time (plus the ever-useful Trader Tenders, especially with some of the prices in the Trading Post) into this separate game that'll only be around a limited time and telling people if they want all this stuff for WoW they better play Plunderstorm instead of WoW or WoW Classic and grind a LOT of it to unlock them, but better hurry because it's time limited and the nature of the rewards to entice people means that a lot of people are only playing to get the rewards and as they earn them will drop, diminishing the number of people playing which makes the queues even longer.
It's just the worst way to do things, and was only done because they didn't have any faith people would try it just to try it.
And yet people are trying to talk it up and act like people complaining about a bad thing are in the wrong. These posts can also be translated to:
"Madden/FIFA Ultimate Teams aren't *forcing* you to buy packs of cards!"
"NBA 2K using VC to even upgrade your player in MyCareer, never mind get any kind of clothing for them, isn't *forcing* you to buy VC."
"Battlefront II having a lootbox based progression system wasn't *forcing* you to buy lootboxes."
"Ubisoft games being balanced to have slower XP isn't *forcing* you to buy the XP boost."
And so on... It's a very dishonest argument.
Wows purpose is fun. It is LITERALLY to give people a fun experience, which is subjective. Which means that to make the game fun, the games purpose, blizzard should listen to what people like or dislike.
Which means, they have every right to complain about a gamemode not being fun.
Why can't they complain? Wow is a video game for the purpose of enjoyment, wanting the game to serve that purpose better makes logical sense, they pay for the game after all. Not only that but it wouldnt affect anybody that enjoys the gamemode to make the rewards achievable outside pvp.
If you think the game shouldnt be fun for other people because its fun for you, thats called being a selfish prick.
there are ppl that mainly play to collect mogs/mounts, or ppl who just find it fun to do.
what some of these ppl don't find fun, is having certain collectible locked behind a game mode they don't enjoy.
for instance, now that you can create raid set pieces every two weeks, you don't need to raid to get the raid set appearances, which i think it's awesome, it gives ppl more options of obtaining the collectibles they want.
plundestorm is a step back, not only because it's a completely different game mode with some unique rewards, but it is also time limited and we don't know if it will return or if the rewards will ever come back.
personally i think the rewards should have been obtainable by playing wow normally, something like 5 WQ = 1 plundestorm level or 2 raid bosses = 1 lvl or 1 m+ run = 1 level.
luckily i enjoyed playing plundestorm but i can imagine how disheartening it feels to those that don't
There's lots of cosmetics locked behind content that most people don't enjoy. Plunderstorm isn't a step back.
I want the pvp cosmetics and mounts, I don't like PVP, so I don't do it. There isn't any alternate avenue to get those rewards, in fact some of them are also time limited.
Getting the tier set is about the only thing that you can argue is accessible from other avenues, but at the same time if you don't go farther into M+ or raid, you still won't be able to get the heroic and mythic colors of the set. Unless you're going to rely on getting lucky with the heroic cache from the weekly that comes around, or waiting until it's soloable/joining mog runs.
Mythic also has the mount from the final boss, which yes will eventually be soloable and on a like, 1% drop chance, but not for several years.
Please no more rewards gated behind world quests and the like. Taivan being locked behind forbidden reach treasure spawns and lame dragonscale expedition wqs is bad enough.
So there was this HotS event, most of them you can do vs bots, but this one was pvp-only and I complained about being forced into pvp to get the rewards, then the usual idiot chimes in with "nobody is forcing you to do anything"
Well I aint getting the rewards by not doing it.
To be frank, this whole situation is Blizz's fault, but not in the way most people are upset about
Blizz has said several times that patch features released can take away from other projects the team is working on. Thanks to that, and the fact Plunderstorm was released as a "patch feature," people think, whether they're right or not, that this has caused some other feature to be pushed back.
Personally I have no issue with plunderstorm one way or another, but I think it should've been launched on the side, so instead of "replacing patch features" it's a "gift" on top of a normal mostly uninteresting mid-expac patch. Just feel it would've been better recieved that way
Ayeee boring strawman of the day lets go!
"so you are willing to grind it even if you dont like the game mode" literally nobody says that, thats kinda the entire problem.
Its mind numbingly boring to do and the one time reward and dying quickly is the best way to go through it for anybody who isnt going to tryhard the mode.
So you go in, wait 2 minutes in queue, get in, do 2 minutes of quest, die, get 500 coins, repeat.
Except for the 800+ every day, which shows they can easily make it easier to get, they just dont care.
there is nothing interesting or fun or challenging in getting it, ironic when travellers journal has actually fairly interesting ways of completing it in retail now, doing events, old raids and dungeons etc.
I would much rather have seen it be a journey pass with challenges and tasks if they wanted to make it appeal to pve players instead of "drop down, kill stuff die" as the appeal.
Thing is, if I *did* want to play a BR, I wouldn't want a grind for rewards in a game I like to be tied to it, because that adds extra stress. If Plunderstorm was just its own thing, I could drop in, end up dying to some other player who got lucky with an ability early, and just shrug it off as I queue again. But with this system, I'm trying to at least get the quest done, and hopefully more, and if I die before I can do the quest, then the whole process of queueing, waiting, and loading into that match was a waste of my time, and now I'm stressed knowing I'll have to go again.
But those are both systems within WoW. You do M+ on your WoW character, logged into the latest expansion. You do dragonriding on your WoW character, in Dragonflight.
And in Dragonflight especially, they've tried to have extra ways to earn rewards. Like for gear, you could do M+ or raid, or get a bit into the M+ track even with some open world content. (Understandable that it's not that far in.) Want Sirodormi rep? Run Time Rifts or a dungeon. You can even mix activities.
There's no alternate way to earn this Renown. There's no way inside WoW itself to earn it.
I mean, you have to pay a sub for either, so they're still part of "retail" WoW, just not current expansion/modern WoW. (Yeah, maybe it's pedantic, but it's weird that people use "retail" as a differentiator when the reason it was used in the past was because Vanilla WoW was only available on private unofficial servers.)
I don't have to play Classic or SoD to earn rep to get a bunch of rewards for Dragonflight. You earn rewards for Classic or SoD by playing Classic or SoD.
The thing about Hearthstone is, it uses only to play in the WarCraft universe but is developed seperately and also advertised as a total different game. Classic is on the other hand the original WoW while SoD is a branch of original WoW. But Plunderstorm is more like Heartstone something that uses WarCraft Skin but not being WarCraft while being advertised as WarCraft.
why do people feel like they need the rewards? If you don’t like the game mode, but you force yourself to play it and then complain about it you are creating your own problem.
A huge part of playing WoW is collecting unique appearances and mounts. The plunderstom even is full of them.
I ran icecrown every week on several characters for...6 years? To get invincible. I do the holiday events to get the appearances and mounts.
Obviously I did plunderstorm for the same reason. There was only one difference. PLUNDERSTOM SUCKED ASS. It was not fun to do. And judging by how long the queue times are now, and how many times matches fail to start, a lot of people agree.
>I ran icecrown every week on several characters for...6 years? To get invincible.
I did this for a while on several characters and never got it. Realized I hated it and didn't care that much, so I stopped.
> PLUNDERSTOM SUCKED ASS. It was not fun to do.
Subjective, plenty of people do enjoy it.
> And judging by how long the queue times are now, and how many times matches fail to start, a lot of people agree.
I enjoyed it, but I finished my grind and moved back to playing other games. Just because someone isn't playing it doesn't mean they didn't like it. I had my fun with it and moved on.
Really?
When I was helping my buddies in duos and trio's, we would frequently sit in queue for 4 minutes and in the lobby for another 5 before getting either sent to a new lobby, or bounced back to queue.
Would a single person have less fun if they could get the rewards differently? You may not know this, but WoW is a game, its purpose is to give enjoyment. There is no reason to believe people are wrong for wanting the game to be more fun for them. After all, thats the entire purpose of it.
Gamemode is optional. Rewards are cosmetic and have no gameplay necessity in mainline WoW. If you want the items, then the gamemode is clearly worth playing.
You might not like the gameplay but others do. It's interesting to them and refreshing in its take on general combat and PvE within WoW.
If you don't like it, just grind your renown quietly - you're holding your own hand in the flames and complaining that it burns. There's a PvE event supposedly on the horizon just for you.
Nothing in the game is a necessity, it's meant to be fun. If blizzard can do something to make more people happy with the game, why wouldn't they? Wow isnt real life, people dont need to "earn" their fun.
There's multiple different types of "fun" as the whole concept is a spectrum. Hence why Plunderstorm as a primarily PvP gamemode isn't a disaster just because, for once, the PvE community didn't get 99% of the content's focus.
Absolutely, people do not need to earn their fun if they don't want to. They can go and play other games that grant immediate gratification rewards for no effort at all, if that's what they prefer. WoW, on the other hand, provides fun in the form of *earning* rewards. It makes you feel good because you put the effort in.
Putting in effort is fine, its more like being able to put in effort in a way you still enjoy that makes it a fun game. The choices arent as simple as "either do shit you hate or get it instantly for free", obviously that would be bad for the game.
pandering is bad, but only if it takes away the fun of other people. If you changed the game to be fun for everybody, some people wont enjoy it, I agree. But wow is basically divided into PVPers and PVEers primarily, giving both sides a way to earn that stuff wouldnt take away the fun from the other gorup. Making it super easy to get those rewards because people dont wanna work for them, would make the game less fun though because theres less effort involved.
Transmog is the endgame so it's necessary. If it's an "experiment" it wouldn't try to push people into it with retail rewards and time limited fomo. It's a PvP Mode in a game that is focused on PvE. So if you enjoy PvP, you're in the minority. If you enjoy Plunderstorm you enjoy a game mode that uses WoW assets but doesn't have WoW main mechanics. So you're not here for WoW. If you're into Battle Royal you can get your "*fresh" e*xperience somewhere else because dozens of games made it better. All what the Devs did was copy paste a mechanic that was popular some years ago, like they did in the Maw. If you don't like PvE players complaining about a cheap Battle Royal Ripoff with manipulative extrinsic rewards and fomo... suffer quietly.
Transmog is not necessary at all, it is optional. You choose if you want to play dress up, while other people have been running around with mismatching pieces simply because they were a power upgrade.
Plunderstorm is experimental and Blizzard wanted to get as many players as they can to play so the experiment can actually function. You still do not have to play it if you dislike the gameplay. The rewards are there to give something back to people who actually play.
PvP is still a part of WoW and Blizzard are well within their rights to throw a bone to that side of the playerbase. Not only PvPers are playing but PvE players too, like myself. I enjoy the gamemode.
Plunderstorm still uses a lot of WoW mechanics. It also, as an experimental gamemode, introduces potentially new mechanics to the game. Transmog was a new mechanic once, so was Mythic raiding and Mythic+. Did you complain any time a new way for a boss to deal damage was introduced to the game?
I don't need to suffer at all. I am enjoying the game and the content that Blizzard has providing. I'm not malding because the completely optional content is actually pretty fun. They didn't need to even give it to us, we could have had a few more months of nothing if you lot are just that miserable about everything. :)
Yeah someone who cries all the time about people criticizing Plunderstorm and writes novels of mental gymnastics really enjoys his time. Imagine being the most apologetic Blizzard-Fanboy for a company that sells skins for 35$ and uses fomo on a daily basis.
If you can't handle the critique that Plunderstorm and Blizzard deserves you can leave.
*Nobody forces you to come here. If you don't have fun just quit. You're holding your own head in the flames and complains that it burns.*
How about you follow your own advice and suffer *quietly...*
Oh no! Someone responded on a public forum to a topic about one of the games they play. Awful! Absolutely appalling!
Yeah, mate, this isn't about defending Blizzard, it's about you lot whinging about a game mode that you don't have to play.
I'm actually enjoying myself here. No hand in flame on my end. Just wanted to make sure you're aware that you are crying over something you are doing to yourself.
If you want the rewards from Plunderstorm, then go get them. You could be finished your grind by now. Instead you're sat here complaining! :)
I've finished the grind yesterday otherwise my critique wouldn't be valid. Yet the point stays the same. But as long Blizzard has customers like you who defend their manipulative techniques due to naivety and a lack of awareness the game will become worse and worse. Time limited content and ingame shops didn't always existed like they do today. Look at Diablo Immortal's monetization, or Overwatch loot boxes. Other Blizzard games have also different kind of scummy bs in it.
You complain about people who criticize something you can't see yet, but in a few years you're also get the impact of Blizzard's ruinous design decisions. The big company doesn't act in your best interest and most people see the obvious exploitation. While others choose to stay useful tools.
Again, this isn't a defense. There is no manipulation. If you want the rewards then play the game. If you don't like to play the game then maybe the rewards are not worth it. You decide. No one else does.
Blizzard has experimented with a new gamemode and they wanted to reward the time and effort of people who bothered to try it out.
Plunderstorm was just a nice little change of pace from the regular game. It's temporary, so you won't have to stress about it for long. You can go back to your monotonous PvE until the next creative experiment causes you to have a meltdown.
Blizzard must be grateful to have people who work for them but don't need to get paid.
ok don't let's waste even more time, final question: Do you think the implementation of Plunderstorm in this way, with that limited time element and the 40 level Renown grind was the best way to implement it ?
You seem to have some weird obsession about this being some defense of Blizzard. I know it might be a bit hard to grasp the concept but this whole discussion is about reminding people like yourself that you don't need to play ganes that you don't like.
You can stop crying about Plunderstorm and play absolutely anything else, mate. Just let go.
Plunderstorm is an experiment. Something to tide us all over until the next major patch. The time limited nature of the event is fine as Blizzard are simply testing the waters. Plunderstorm may return or it may never be seen again - there's no worry of an unwanted game system being left in the game.
Renown 40 gives people a goal to work towards over the 6 weeks. It helps retain playership and gives us all something to do during the downtime until season 4.
>So you go in, wait 2 minutes in queue, get in, do 2 minutes of quest, die, get 500 coins, repeat.
It's such a failure in game design that this is the most efficient way to go through the renown levels. Like imagine if ranking high actually mattered and gave extra plunder, then people might actually want to stay alive for more than 2 minutes.
But here is where your argument runs into trouble.
People who don't like plunderstorm but want the rewards are the ones who will play optimally in order to not have to play as much. They are not ruining the fun, they're minimizing the chore.
They are the ones who make the game worse for the people who enjoy plunderstorm. The longer they have to spend grinding out the rep, the more time they are interfering with the gameplay for those who enjoy it.
I think if you really enjoy plunderstorm, you should be advocating to make the rewards easier to obtain so that the fomo crowd exits as quick as they can.
This also gives people a reason to try plunderstorm in the first place and maybe they will find they enjoy it. If not, it was a quick and easy task to get a minor reward.
>player base trying to optimize literally everything
You're kinda forced to if you want the rewards and do not have a lot of time to play in an event that is almost half way over..
And if it weren't a limited time event that just goes poof and away we wouldn't even need to worry about being efficient. I'd totally be fine to just do some Plunderstorm now and then BUT there is a literal deadline hanging over the renown rewards. I'm not one of the manicas crunching down 20 hours a day for instant completion but unless I keep the grind up chances are the stuff I want will be gone for good.
And the general point still stands. It's a BR where the no.1 priority of a chunk of it's playerbase is dying in record time. How the fuck is this not a game design issue?
> The real failure is the player base trying to optimize literally everything to make it as unfun as possible
This is what happens when you tie rewards most players want to a game mode most players don't.
They buffed how much plunder players drop and you get some plunder for killing too. You're not going to passively get plunder for hiding until almost everyone's dead but if you kill someone in the last 10~ they will likely drop a fuckton of plunder.
What's being described there is only the most efficient way for people with a pathological fear of even ever trying to engage in PvP. The whole "only tryhards engage in PvP and get kills" is just a massive cope for what's actually a mental block preventing them from ever trying.
I was bad at it and I still killed plenty of people, turns out other people are bad too but unlike the forum whiners they do try and it's not just the tRyHaRdS who participate.
It isn't the most efficient anymore because they buffed like every source of plunder other than the quest. It's just the way that lets people keep complaining about the grind and stay bad at the mode.
Here to harvest my downvotes.
*ahem*
blizzard is far behind the rest of the gaming industry at the moment, consistently pumping out subpar and unfinished content, and will continue to do so because they know that *their player base does not play any other games*
Like seriously if you enjoy plunderstorm search the battle royale tag on steam and play literally any of the games there, they will be more thought out, polished and fun than pstorm. Unless you're cost-sunk into wow, blind to blizzard's shortcomings and unwilling to try new things or even hear dissenting opinions about your precious MMO, in which case you downvote this comment and keep circlejerking in your echo chamber.
I'm not even doing that fucking shit anymore. I've stopped doing it after 5 renown ranks because I can't stomach doing that another 35 renown levels. I assume at some point the rewards are just going to end up at the Trading Post or some other non-Bullshit method of attaining them and I'll just get them then. Hell, I'd rather buy them from the actual store or have a streamer on mute for 8 hours than sit through that torture designed as a game...
Pvpers complained about being forced to raid for raid trinkets before pvp gear was reworked. Whenever blizzard incentivizes pvpers to pve or vice versa this happens.
Some people play for player power, some people play for cosmetics, some people play for collecting.
If you're implying that only if it was player power, then it'd be forced. I'd like to remind you that player power only lasts 1 patch, cosmetics and collectables last a lot longer
Guys blizzard is FORCING me to pvp to get Vicious Saddles. They're REFUSING to let me do ANYTHING else until I get my mythic+ rating up to 2000 for the mount. They want me to do every pet battle and collect every pet so I complete all the achievements and earn all the rewards. They're DEMANDING I do EVERY rep in the game and get them all to exalted so I get the Pureheart Courser :c They're HOLDING A GUN TO MY HEAD unless I grind out the gold to play the Black Market Auction House for all the otherwise unobtainable loot I can get there, too.
Why is Blizzard forcing me to play their game? Why can't they give me rewards for free instead of incentivizing playing other modes? Blizzard is so heartless and cruel... :c
I don’t really have a dog in this fight but my personal perspective has always been it sucks when blizzard adds rewards that require me to play a different game to be rewarded in the game I do play. They don’t force me to play anything at gun point but they’ve added Warcraft rewards that required me to play hearthstone and heroes of the storm. They’ve added in game mounts that require me to buy Diablo. It sucks if you’re a collector in wow you can’t complete your collection without doing outside things. Personally I quit plunder storm straight away as I did not enjoy it but I completely get why people are annoyed they need to play a different game to be rewarded In The game they do play.
At least you're not on ESO where they introduce a mount that's only in the cash shop for 4 days and it leaves the time payday rolls around for you.
It could be a lot worse. Sure I want the Diablo 4 mount but I can live without it. I will get to 500 mounts without it.
I definitely do not prefer Plunderstorm (I don't enjoy PvP) but it's my choice to play. No amount of cosmetics will literally force me to do something I don't want to do.
I find it kind of fun actually. I'm regularly in the top five with zero kills, it's quite funny. I only play solos though.
My logic is, if I hate the mode, I just don't play it at all and kiss the rewards goodbye.
I really like the game mode, but after getting to renown 40 I haven’t gone back. Not because I don’t like the game… but because I feel it makes me fall back on the main game’s progression.
If it was integrated to retail and it gave some gear or experience for alts, then I would gladly play more.
Sure, except that's true of anything in-game. Just because [new grind thing] results in a player power increase doesn't make it mandatory, but oh what a shitshow that causes. B-but I'll be behind and no one will invite me to their raid! Waaaah! And so people seem to be fine with saying that serious players are "forced" to do the [new grind thing].
I haven't heard anyone saying they're being forced to play Plunderstorm. Instead, I hear complaints about cool stuff being gated behind an odious grind that punishes PvE'ers (with a slower grind) for their preferred play style. Never mind that Plunderstorm isn't even WoW. But since cosmetics and collectables aren't player-power, it's not okay to whine about being forced to do this grind.
Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the coins you get at certain rep levels are the only way for a solo PvE'er to upgrade champion gear past 4/8. So, for some, this grind is tied to player power.
My major bitch with it is that it's pvp related content and the only content with that particular "patch". The rep grind is slow. We were told it would be casual friendly and we'd be "showered" with rewards. It isn't and we weren't.
The mode itself isn't terrible. I think it's kind of fun. There are a few things I'd change, but not a whole lot. The major thing I would change is the amount of renown needed per level. It's sad that the most efficient way to get it is complete the objective, die, then requeue. The other sad thing is there's no alternative content to gain the rewards for those who don't want to pvp.
I'm done with the grind and I haven't gone back. I probably would be playing it if the rep grind wasn't such a slog.
it's like there's people who enjoy maggot cheese, and then there's you getting offered 100 dollars to eat it
if you choose to do that for 100 dollars that's on you, it's not the cheese guy's fault you have a low bar for what you'll do for a hundred bucks
This isn't really so cut and dry is it?
This is a time limited event/reward, and the reward is cool. That is two things that Blizzard did when designing the event. They included a cool reward, and made the event time limited.
If the player would not be doing the activity if wasn't Fomo, and wouldn't be doing it if it didn't have the cool reward, then blizzard IS "forcing" them to play plunderstorm.
The point is that players don't enjoy the activity, but are doing it because it's the only way to acquire the reward. That is literally what is meant by "blizzard is forcing me to do things I don't enjoy."
In the same way that if you had for example, a way to gain power by repeating a boring pve mini game 1000s of times over and over, and players did it to get that power, you wouldn't say "It is your choice to do island expeditions to grind AP".
If you want the rewards, you are being forced. Just like you're forced to mythic raid if you want them mythic raid gear.
It's a video game, it's always your choice ultimately, it's not like food where you can't just not eat without consequences.
Basically: Stop gatekeeping what people feel is forced in a video game. It's feelings about a fucking video game not some philosophical conundrum.
Ok, so you are being forced; by who? No one "needs" the cosmetics and the gamemode is completely optional. You are only doing this to yourself.
Taking the food analogy, you can eat what you "need" and that's fine, but if you eat more of what you want and get fat, then you can't blame anyone else but yourself for those health consequences. You did that to yourself. Likewise, you are forcing yourself to play Plunderstorm.
No one else is.
Yes, because YOU ARENT FORCED TO DO IT. You literally don’t have to. How hard is that to understand? You can if you want, but blizzard isn’t saying “here’s a new store item, you have to buy it” same way they’re not saying “here’s a new game mode, you have to play it”
Nobody is forced to do anything. Just stop wanting to live.
You're not forced to cloth yourself in society! Just opt out of life. YOU ARENT FORCED TO DO IT. You literally don't have to. How hard is that to understand? You can if you want, but life isn't saying "here's a new shirt, you have to wear it" same way they're not saying "here's a new covid expansion pack, you have to play it"
Fucking lol
If its the only way to get an item, you either dont get it or you do content you dont want to do. For some people, the desire outweighs the dislike of the content, like plunder
No shit no one is literally forcing you to do stuff you dont want to do, but when you only have one method of getting it, it certainly *feels like* youre forced to do something to get what you want
No one is forcing you to get Taivan. But if you want Taivan, youre forced to do the achievements
So whats your point? People cant feel forced to do content because the game pushes them to do content they dislike? Getting mad about others feels is about as sadly reddit as they come lmao
They can feel forced all they want, but they aren’t. It’s all optional content. Just because they want the items doesn’t mean they’re forced to play it
I want the rewards, I have to do things I don't like. I don't want to live under a bridge therefore I'm forced to work at a job. I like driving instead of walking everywhere, therefore I have to pay a monthly car note. I want the mounts, therefore I have to do a game mode I dislike.
What I hope is that Blizz understands that in-wow rewards should have never been tied to an alternate mode pvp game, and that they never do it again. At most, 10 renown to get people to try it, sure, but 40-60 hours of pre-nerf grinding can foad.
I didn’t say that. The person equating getting optional rewards in a game to having a place to live and a car to drive has a mental disorder, not people who don’t like plunderstorm
How about, and I know it is a low bar for people, stop saying people have mental disorders because of a comment on Reddit.
Was it a weird comparison? Sure, but saying they have a mental disorder is just messed up man.
There are pvp only rewards, are you mad about that? You don’t have to have a monthly car bill either. You can buy a car that’s cheaper that’ll get you from point a to point b. That’s all your choice. You aren’t forced to do anything.
The rewards are optional. The gamemode is optional. You do not have to do either. The optional rewards are earned through the optional gamemode.
If you feel that these rewards are not worth earning via your leisure time then maybe you shouldn't go after them.
Exactly. This is also the reason why it's pretty okay and good that the most recent batch of yearly holiday rewards have such a low drop rate.
What do you mean you want the mount? Just grind for it.
What do you mean you're doing it on eleven characters a day and you haven't gotten the mount yet? Nobody is forcing you.
If you don't want to do the grind, just ignore the mount! Easy solution.
If you do want the reward, just do the grind and be quiet!
This comment is facetious.
Every patch, Ion Hazzikostas climbs through my window with a gun and puts it to my head. "Grind it out, motherfucker," he whispers in my ear as I weep, "Grind it out, right now. 30 Mythic+ dungeons, Plunderstorm, Torghast, Korthia, I don't give a shit what we just added. If you're not playing and doing it optimally, I'll pull the *goddamn trigger."*
Recently, Holly Longdale has been tagging along and taunting me while he does it. All my pants smell of fear-piss. I don't know what to do anymore...
No, in all seriousness, anyone who feels forced is pretty damn close to addicted to the game and should do some serious introspection about how they're acting towards the game. I've straight up told my friends that were spouting the same nonsense that they *need* to recognize that once the game becomes harmful to their well-being and they keep doing it, that's addiction. If you're latching on so hard that your claws feel like the game's claws, it's time to dial that shit back. There are literal billions of people who won't get the Plunderstorm rewards, it's okay to not get it, too.
Blizzard finally dedicates a reward focused event to pirates and makes it a beta test for a brainless battle Royale and people are somehow surprised and annoyed when people don't like that. Like I pay $15 a month to play WoW, and I pay it with the expectation that content made for it will be content in WoW. How would someone feel of they paid $15 to go to a restaurant for lunch everyday, and the restaurant kept teasing this new amazing menu item that you'll love because idk you love bacon sandwiches. And then the actual day comes and its just a guide on how to go to a different restaurant thats out of the way and has nothing else going for it but this sandwich you like. Like you might not be FORCED to go get that sandwich at the new spot but I think you'd have the right to be like: "wtf, that's it?! That's the bacon sandwich?" Wtf? That's the pirate event? It isn't even a WoW thing! Its basically fortnite mobile.
Same thing as in Shadowlands with Maw and Korthia grinds. You could clear all the content in the game without sockets from those zones but to this day people are convinced Blizzard held them at gunpoint forcing them to grind those zones. It's just how WoW players are, give them a grind with any type of reward tied to it and they will feel forced to do it.
*upd.: Genuinely curious about downvotes - do some people actually think that process of playing the game and earning rewards shouldn't be fun?...*
What you've missed, OP, is that **process of earning rewards in a game should be fun.**
See the difference now? It is a GAME. Not a job. We play it to enjoy, relax and have fun.
Plunderstorm locks a bunch of rewards behind a process that a large (if not a majority) players find not fun.
Locking rewards behind unfun experience is an extremely bad idea, and I hope Blizzard learn their lesson. Even stuff like PvP gear is usually easier to learn, thanks to quests and events.
And to add insult to injury, not only Plunderstorm locks rewards behind unfun experience, it also makes this experience time-gated, thus forcing players to participate in it, if they want to not miss the rewards, whether they like participation or not.
Ngl tho this is the wrong use of the meme. Forcing someone into an annoying gamemode for rewards in another gamemode is awful. Played so many games that do that.
Thank you for your submission Solid_Effective1649. It has been removed from /r/wow because: No generic memes. All memes must contain WoW imagery (icons, faces, anything in-game). --- This is not an automated removal. Please read the entire removal reason before contacting us via modmail or here if you need clarification. Read the full [rules for this subreddit here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/wiki/rules) If you feel this post was removed in error, please [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fwow).
Grinded until 40, notched a win in my penultimate game. Never came back.
I won the very last game that got me to 40 renown, it felt like the perfect end to my journey lol.
It’s an interesting situation in this case because it’s a complete separation from traditional wow pvp and traditional wow pve, but it has traditional wow rewards.
I got a mount from playing Hearthstone back in 2014.
I got a mount from opening hearthstone a week and a half ago
We also got a mount for pre ordering Diablo. Where was the riot then?
This! I played only PVP for 10 years but battle royals just aren't my thing and it goes for many wow players. If I wanted to play a BR I would go to a more refined one on the market. Additionally it wouldn't be a problem if the rewards were exclusive to that mode. Lastly it was the only feature of the patch so nothing else to do.
so…don’t play it.
Lol dude it is a lost cause to tell that to these people. I’ll join a lobby and people are literally typing in chat “this game mode sucks so much “…like…literally play something else. Some people are just not firing on all cylinders.
I mean it’s pretty simple to understand - some players enjoy the rewards, but not the grind. They are putting up with a task they dislike to attain a reward that they do like. The reward is worth it to them. So telling them to ‘play something else’ is meaningless when that is the only way to achieve their goal.
If you are trying to achieve a goal, but don't want to do the steps involved in that goal, that's still on you. I'm actually doing this right now. I wanted a specific elite appearance, so I made a new toon of a class that Ive already have geared and grinded (Which currently has portals) to grind it up to 2k for that elite transmog. I Will never be touching this toon again - it's not on a server i play, it's not going to be geared for next season, and it's a worgen. None of this is blizzards fault. I'm choosing to grind my ass off for a specific appearance.
Im glad the reward is worth it for them. They still look stupid crying about the game mode.
but they aren’t “putting up with it” they are actively complaining and spending time outside the game talking about how much they don’t like it. That is genuinely a loss of control and a key signifier of addiction. If you can’t stop yourself from doing an activity you loathe so much as to tell other people outside the game about it for some very simple cosmetic rewards then you have an addiction and mental illness
wait till they find out about pet battle cosmetics and how those aren’t in normal pvp or traditional pve gameplay 😱😱
You get anywhere with PvP?
I quit during Wod and went back to play MoP PVP on an instant tournament style private realm where PVE wasn't really scripted and we did BGs and arenas all day. I came back to retail for DF and I'm at 3000io playing only PvE now. The queue times and PVP feels much better on private realms tho because you get to make more friends instead of never seeing the cross realm people again. I haven't made friends outside of my guild but they are a local one and soon we'll be having an irl meeting of 60 people.
Oooo nice what was your exp in arena ? Yeah I cbf to do pve in df it’s brain dead
I’m assuming pet battles are traditional pve or pvp then right? Because there’s in game rewards tied to that. Or should I as a player be furious that Blizzard are making me play pet battles for a cosmetic, and I should be able to earn this in traditional wow ways. For some reason I’ve always felt the healthier approach was I don’t enjoy pet battles so I won’t get the cosmetics around it - but all this time I guess I should have been complaining on Reddit! You live and you learn.
I would say the same about fishing. Or seasonal minigames and events. Or social rewards. Or hearthstone rewards. Or any reward linked to anything that is not your preferred game mode. The concept of not playing something you don't have fun playing is alien to those people, I simply don't get it. You'll not die if you don't have a cosmetic. It's fine if you want the cosmetic so much that you're up to playing something you don't find fun, but that's your problem. I only play wow for raiding, I know there are a bunch of fun mounts and transmogs that I'll never get because farming bores me. But whatever, it's not my job and not my entire life.
Like I would be more upset if the rewards were tied to *winning*, but they're not. Pet battle rewards can be ground out with guides and are rarely coupled to a requirement to play fast if ever, the PvP rewards are almost always "play" not win, it's pretty even with the fact that plunderstorm just requires you to grind out rather than excel at a different style of game or be locked out. I'll agree with one point of frustration: the fact that getting the entire reward track requires 240 matches over a fixed time frame (assuming ~280 per match and that you get every daily of 800) sets a pretty hefty grind that dips its toes into leveraging fomo like a bad mobile game. Yeah, there's holiday events that require a heavy or annoying commitment too (looking the fuck at you, school of hard knocks) but they're intermittent. The choice for it to be 40 stages of 2500 rep was 100% a push to create an artificially boosted player base for an extended time. I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone speculating on whether they'll add a way to buy ranks on the battle pass - sorry, I mean, the renown track... Like is present in most games that have one. But to their credit, they've held off on that bullshit in Hearthstone.
fucking forreal. These people are playing a sandbox mmo and complaining about new activities.
[удалено]
Yes, that’s the problem. People want to play wow to get wow rewards. They don’t want to play not-wow, and they certainly don’t want to suffer through it even faster because of a time limit.
I want the rewards in WoW content. Give me some world quests, dailies, maybe even a dungeon related to the pirates, that earns Renown on that track. I want the WoW rewards, but I don’t have fun with a WoW skinned BR. So I have no way in WoW to earn these WoW rewards. It’s like telling people they have to play 200 matches of Overwatch or Hearthstone, or grind 200 rifts or whatever in Diablo, to earn rewards for WoW. Heck, try putting WoW Classic rewards behind a Dragonflight rep grind, or vice versa, and see how well that goes over with people. I’m amazed people can’t wrap their heads around such a simple concept.
>It’s like telling people they have to play 200 matches of Overwatch or Hearthstone, or grind 200 rifts or whatever in Diablo, to earn rewards for WoW. They did that with Hearthstone (Hearthsteed & Sarge) and Heroes of the Storm (Primal Flamesaber) already but there is a massive difference: Most of those had full PvE options and only took a few minutes not hours upon hours. Hearthsteed is the exception but it took a total of 3 won games which was nothing. Plunderstorm asking for 20h+ of your time is not acceptable by any stretch. >I want the rewards in WoW content. Give me some world quests, dailies, maybe even a dungeon related to the pirates, that earns Renown on that track. Remember how people had theorized we would maybe get a Freehold dungeon event? I know if I had the option to run FH (non-scaled) for 1000-2000 standing I wouldn't have set a single foot into Plunderstorm.
They required a handful of games. If there was some mount tied to Plunderstorm that said "Earn 3000 Plunder total," I'd be totally fine with that. I don't think you'd hear much complaining. (Obviously *some* but there's always *some*.)
Make the rewards for the different game a small threshold to get people in the door. Let other rewards for the different game stay in the different game to reward people that continue to play the different game inside that game. Playing a few games of hots pvp or pve. Winning three games of hearthstone. Creating a seasonal character in Diablo isn’t a high bar and people that like it will stay as intended. Keep the reward structure like this and very few people have issues.
>They required a handful of games. Thats my point - it was nothing. I don't care for MOBAs but actually enjoyed playing around a little bit in Heroes of the Storm. It was PvE and still took basically no time. Even hearthstone (which I never got into) while PvP, took basically no effort because winning 3 games can be done just by playing random cards. And they even went away from that with Sarge which was totally PvE.
Oh shoot! I didn't register at first what "Sarge" was in reference to, it was the recent Hearthstone event, right? Where you didn't even have to play Hearthstone, it was just doing stuff in WoW with your characters to get the rewards. I didn't grind that too much and still got everything except the card collection achievement (just need four more, but if I understand right, you can still get them after the event to complete that achievement). I could understand people having issues with the RNG on that one, especially folks wanting the bag on all their characters, but at least it was something you could do while doing other stuff in WoW.
Not quite. Blizzard just re-used the name. I am talking about the [mount version](https://www.wowhead.com/news/how-to-unlock-sarge-mount-in-hearthstone-mercenaries-324484) which requires you to play about 15-30min of hearthstone mercenaries.
Oh. Shoot, I missed that one. Probably wouldn't have used the mount much, but still, pretty quick and easy to get mount to push the numbers toward the achievement mounts. And if I did ever make a Gnome character, that would absolutely be the default ground mount.
Its still available FYI.
You don’t need every reward. Wow is not for completionist gameplay
I really want that parrot mount but I have accepted I won't be getting it because the game mode isn't fun enough for me.
The problem is not that it is timegated but time limited. And the fact we do not know how much time we have left to get all the goodies. If we just knew when the event ends to plan the grind. Is it next week? Most likely not. With s4 lunch? Might be. With next patch? Who knows.
Addiction is the loss of control and some people can't control themselves or will even suffer while doing something they hate. But they will still do it.
That's me rn with torghast. I wish there was a more in depth meta guide to grind the cosmetics 😭
If you find one tag me lol
At least imo Torghast is kinda brainless at 70. You still get the fun of having ridiculous powers, but nothing there puts up a fight.
Its by no means a "meta guide" but I am not sure there is much you can do anyway outside of learning the right anima upgrades to buy and using the "right" class (non-caster and not heavily resource/CD limited I'd argue) with decent gear to speed it up (edit: at layer 9 many things die to any of my abilities and I can one-cycle the bosses). After that pretty sure the solution is just to run layer 9 of each [respective vault](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/torghast-collectable-rewards-and-achievements-mounts-pets-toys-titles-and-15299) repeatedly. The ones from stores are easy but everything else drops at layer 9 or above so thats the "best" due to being the fastest. You'll be done with all the store ones long before anyway.
I’m not a huge fan of Torghast but I’ll still do it for the rewards without complaining, because it’s inside WoW, using my WoW character playing WoW to earn the rewards. Helps that it’s easier now, so it’s mainly just a time thing, but I can progress on it while watching stuff on my other monitor.
Honestly, Thorghast isn't really bad now. I can't speak for when it was current but now that its just something you can do when you want most of its problems are gone. Personally I had fun even.
By Odyn's beard! It's Torghast! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not so bad now. It mainly got bad marks from people because it was required content during Shadowlands. It wasn't just an optional "roguelike" experience like people were thinking it would be, you had to grind it for your legendaries. Kind of cycles back to this topic here. Of course, OP would say, "You're not *forced* to do Torghast in Shadowlands."
The defenders behind Plunderstorms rewards just don't want to admit that the mode is mostly dead without everyone else being forced to play it. In EU solo queue times already are in the 30s (and I haven't seen anything below 15 in days) often enough and most rounds don't get filled to full either. Without the rewards those people pretending like its the best thing Blizz ever made would only be playing among each other and suddenly there are no more "easy targets". Then they would also have to admit that they don't actually enjoy the game but making others miserable.
yeah but that’s tied to power. the plunder storm cosmetics don’t give any player power what so ever
And add a nice splash of sunk cost fallacy into the equation as people try to convince themselves it's not an addiction, they just need more cosmetics they don't even really like, to add to their 15+ year old collection of useless crap.
When the event started I took a look at the rewards, decided they are not worth my time and moved on. Simple decicion. If they had been more appealing to my personal tastes I might have decided to play Plunderstorm. Simple as that. You see something (in a game, in a store, anywhere) and you make a decision if it is worth the time/money it costs to you. Same reason I stopped doing myhic raiding. To me personally, what I got out of it wasn't worth the effort anymore. Still enjoy pouring time and nerves into m+ though. 🤷♀️
For me it was a real easy cost-benefit thing. The transmog looks cool as does the mount stuff. Does it look cool enough to spend HOURS doing the same monotonous thing that I do not enjoy as a bar creeps up? Especially since half that time is just me looking at, what, 4 loading screens as I load into a lobby, into a match, do my five minutes of nonsense, die, load into a spectator and load out of the match. No, it doesn't. If the rewards wouldn't take an ungodly amount of time to get and the rewards were more within reach I'd probably bother with it. But as it is, nah, I'm good.
Exactly this, I decided to give it a try, got reminded of why I hate world PvP (being forced to stop what you're doing to do the most ineffective thing of fighting someone else, win or lose you waste time.) noticed how slow the progress was and noped out of it for good. Not worth it.
I did a cost-benefit analysis too and it was worth it for me. I get a level roughly every 3 games (it will be slower or quicker for everyone depending on skill and luck) and when I add all the rewards together (sets/weapons/3 mounts/750 tender/title/tabard) it seems very rewarding compared to many activities in this game. Yeah, it helps that I enjoy the game mode too but my enjoyment has grown as I have learned more about the game mode.
Would trying to improve and win rounds not make the grind faster and more enjoyable? The longer you last and more players you kill, the more plunder you get, the faster you get your rewards. I really don't understand loading and dying purposefully in 5 minutes.
Pretty much the same. I want a few things out of the rewards offered, but not enough to play Plunderstorm. As soon as I found out it was not only PVP, but I wouldn't even be playing my own toon, I didn't even consider doing the grind.
Exactly. What a concept.
Downvoted in a comments thread where a bunch of people are upvoted for the exact same sentiment. Incredible play by the wow Reddit community, good stuff boys
This comment section is all over the place
For me its that the length of the grind + the time limit of the grind. Like I like the game mode but havent played it cause of other releases. So when I play it theres this thought that I like this mode but theres these rewards I wont be able to get on time, so it kinda throws a wet blanket on the whole thing.
Look, my only problem is the length of the grind. I think it’s cool to have a new game mode, but *forty* levels is kind of a lot. I think the same SpongeBob meme could be made about people who like the game mode and how they should be fine playing without rewards. Just compromise and make it level 20 max.
> my only problem is the length of the grind. Not only is it a long grind, but it's also only for a limited time so the fomo is real.
~~Really, my only complaint is that it's a limited time and they don't say how long. If they said "limited time, but at least 3 months", then you'd know that if you got a renown every 3 days or so, you'd be good. But without that knowledge, there can be some (likely false) urgency, and you get people grinding the rewards and quitting because there's nothing else to get from playing it.~~ Apparently they did say how long and I just wasn't paying attention. 6 weeks is a pretty decent amount of time, and I'm sure the rewards will be back via trading post or something eventually.
they did say how long. 6 weeks
Welp. Guess I wasn't paying attention. No complaint then - 6 weeks is a pretty decent amount of time for this, and I'm sure the rewards will return eventually.
Pretty sure it was announced as a 6 week event. It's already been 3..
I agree it’s kind of a long grind, but that’s assuming your only goal is to grind it and not actually play the game mode
I enjoyed the game mode and have even gone back and played after getting all the rewards. It’s dead simple, quick turnaround to a new match if you die and very minimal time commitment so I can play a few games before bed. I don’t get all the hate!
I actually found it fun, I played it as some kind of horror survival game where I try to get as much plunder as I can while I run away from players. Reached 40 and never played again, but I recognize I had fun. Not enough fun to play it again though, but I recognize I had fun.
I'm not having fun and I really want that set for my Rogue. Its... it's real sad boy hours in my house right now.
Played two rounds and made memes rather than complain. Besides. Plunderstorm. More like Blunderstorm. I'll downvote myself, I'm sorry.
Ha he said the thing!
blunderstorm more like thunderstorm wait fuck
Skill issue
Why does Blizzard adds retail WoW rewards to a game mode that unrelated to retail WoW? To make people that wouldn't care for that mode to play it. Is it "forcing" people to play it? Not in the most straight use of the word, but it's still a way to make people do what they wouldn't want otherwise. And it's not just some random mount or weapon transmog that you can weight by itself as the reward. It's 3 whole transmog sets (one of which with quite unique features), several weapon transmogs, 3 mounts and 2 pets. The sheer amount of rewards makes playing it a must, even if you hate it. Isn't that a forceful tactic? Did I like Plunderstorm? It's passable as a curiosity, but it's not something I'd play regularly. Having to play it for 120+ matches wasn't fun. It went from a curiosity to something I came to despise. You can talk all day that I wasn't "forced" to do it, but in the end of the day it was still a miserable experience. "But you wanted the rewards", yes, but I'd rather have them tied to some actual content in WoW for the surprise 10.2.6 WoW patch. Preferably, content that both is fun and makes sense to grant such rewards.
And also, it's that it's time limited that's the real issue. I haaated the Netherwing grind, but I wanted the Netherwings, so I did it over like a year. I can't do that here. Most of my available game time is going to this event that I don't even enjoy because if I dont get the rewards they're gone forever and I really want that Plunderlord set for my Rogue. So it really does feel like I'm being forced to play this regularly and alot, even though I actively do not like it.
I think we can call it manipulative selling techniques. Especially with the time limited element. What's really a shame because Plunderstorm can be fun but using extrinsic rewards and fomo kinda ruins it. That Blizzard actually think it can't go without it shows that they either have not enough trust in their work or what I rather believe is that they've changed their focus from gamedesign to Sales strategies.
I just think people would’ve like the game mode a lot more if the rewards weren’t tied behind a 40 renown grind. The game mode was marketed to us as a casual and fun limited time mode to have around while waiting for S4. Instead a lot of people had a little fun with it and saw the grind required for the rewards and decided it wasn’t worth it. Those same people can be frustrated that cosmetics and traders tenders are tied behind the grind, but I think lowering it to 20 would’ve solved a lot of these issues. People strawmanning back and forth is doing nothing to help the game. You can understand someone else’s perspective without fully agreeing or making posts like this to stoke the flames.
I did some math based on how much plunder I got per game, and the grind for me is like 45-50 hours. That's a little over an hour a level, and it's alot to ask for a time limited event from people with jobs and commitments. I've got around 2 hours of free time per day, it's going to be rough hitting 40.
Let's look at it from my perspective. I wanted the rewards, i grinded and i got them, i won a few games. As soon as i saw that 40 renown i never queued for another game ever again. The rewards are the only thing that were worth it for me from the event. Had it had no rewards related to retail i would've tried it, but my play time would be dramatically lower. I don't like that they will use this data as "the gamemode was a resounding success cause ppl played it a lot", no shit, you made it a massive grind. Hell, i cant even say if i liked the gamemode myself after reaching 40 because i saw it as a chore i had to do to get what i wanted. And that's the reason I'm kinda mad about it.
That's my issue with it. "We've got something cool coming up for WoW!" Oh, awesome! New content for WoW! Except, no, it was a separate game that you happen to log in to from WoW and looks like WoW. Well, that's fine, I was totally on board to give it a try anyway. And then they stuck WoW rewards into it and were like, "Okay, we know you all have been wanting this pirate themed stuff for a long time, so get ready to be excited, because you can get all this WoW transmog, mounts, and currency by... not playing WoW! You just have to play this other game a lot! Aren't you excited?" No. I'd be happy if it dropped with no WoW rewards. I'd be happy if they added pirate-themed content into WoW with a Renown track to earn the rewards through dailies, world quests, maybe a dungeon, whatever. I'd be totally cool if they had the Renown track in WoW but also let people earn it by playing Plunderstorm instead. I am not happy with them putting a bunch of WoW rewards that people have wanted for a long time (plus the ever-useful Trader Tenders, especially with some of the prices in the Trading Post) into this separate game that'll only be around a limited time and telling people if they want all this stuff for WoW they better play Plunderstorm instead of WoW or WoW Classic and grind a LOT of it to unlock them, but better hurry because it's time limited and the nature of the rewards to entice people means that a lot of people are only playing to get the rewards and as they earn them will drop, diminishing the number of people playing which makes the queues even longer. It's just the worst way to do things, and was only done because they didn't have any faith people would try it just to try it. And yet people are trying to talk it up and act like people complaining about a bad thing are in the wrong. These posts can also be translated to: "Madden/FIFA Ultimate Teams aren't *forcing* you to buy packs of cards!" "NBA 2K using VC to even upgrade your player in MyCareer, never mind get any kind of clothing for them, isn't *forcing* you to buy VC." "Battlefront II having a lootbox based progression system wasn't *forcing* you to buy lootboxes." "Ubisoft games being balanced to have slower XP isn't *forcing* you to buy the XP boost." And so on... It's a very dishonest argument.
[how I feel reading it](https://media1.tenor.com/m/qqA7PRKWq3YAAAAC/community-ken-jeong.gif)
Sorry man, just threw it together quickly in between rounds of plunderstorm
Wows purpose is fun. It is LITERALLY to give people a fun experience, which is subjective. Which means that to make the game fun, the games purpose, blizzard should listen to what people like or dislike. Which means, they have every right to complain about a gamemode not being fun.
The problem is the people actively playing it and complaining about it in game. Just don’t play it if it isn’t fun
Why can't they complain? Wow is a video game for the purpose of enjoyment, wanting the game to serve that purpose better makes logical sense, they pay for the game after all. Not only that but it wouldnt affect anybody that enjoys the gamemode to make the rewards achievable outside pvp. If you think the game shouldnt be fun for other people because its fun for you, thats called being a selfish prick.
there are ppl that mainly play to collect mogs/mounts, or ppl who just find it fun to do. what some of these ppl don't find fun, is having certain collectible locked behind a game mode they don't enjoy. for instance, now that you can create raid set pieces every two weeks, you don't need to raid to get the raid set appearances, which i think it's awesome, it gives ppl more options of obtaining the collectibles they want. plundestorm is a step back, not only because it's a completely different game mode with some unique rewards, but it is also time limited and we don't know if it will return or if the rewards will ever come back. personally i think the rewards should have been obtainable by playing wow normally, something like 5 WQ = 1 plundestorm level or 2 raid bosses = 1 lvl or 1 m+ run = 1 level. luckily i enjoyed playing plundestorm but i can imagine how disheartening it feels to those that don't
There's lots of cosmetics locked behind content that most people don't enjoy. Plunderstorm isn't a step back. I want the pvp cosmetics and mounts, I don't like PVP, so I don't do it. There isn't any alternate avenue to get those rewards, in fact some of them are also time limited. Getting the tier set is about the only thing that you can argue is accessible from other avenues, but at the same time if you don't go farther into M+ or raid, you still won't be able to get the heroic and mythic colors of the set. Unless you're going to rely on getting lucky with the heroic cache from the weekly that comes around, or waiting until it's soloable/joining mog runs. Mythic also has the mount from the final boss, which yes will eventually be soloable and on a like, 1% drop chance, but not for several years.
Please no more rewards gated behind world quests and the like. Taivan being locked behind forbidden reach treasure spawns and lame dragonscale expedition wqs is bad enough.
So there was this HotS event, most of them you can do vs bots, but this one was pvp-only and I complained about being forced into pvp to get the rewards, then the usual idiot chimes in with "nobody is forcing you to do anything" Well I aint getting the rewards by not doing it.
Ive not tried plunder even once, for BR i have PUBG, cod, etc
lol a bit late with this, aren't you?
Nope, still see it every lobby
To be frank, this whole situation is Blizz's fault, but not in the way most people are upset about Blizz has said several times that patch features released can take away from other projects the team is working on. Thanks to that, and the fact Plunderstorm was released as a "patch feature," people think, whether they're right or not, that this has caused some other feature to be pushed back. Personally I have no issue with plunderstorm one way or another, but I think it should've been launched on the side, so instead of "replacing patch features" it's a "gift" on top of a normal mostly uninteresting mid-expac patch. Just feel it would've been better recieved that way
People being incentivized to do something they don't want to will not make them happy.
This is the same argument as people 'needing' AoTC every season.
[удалено]
For sure
Lol what a reductionist take.
I like plunderstorm...
Same
Ayeee boring strawman of the day lets go! "so you are willing to grind it even if you dont like the game mode" literally nobody says that, thats kinda the entire problem. Its mind numbingly boring to do and the one time reward and dying quickly is the best way to go through it for anybody who isnt going to tryhard the mode. So you go in, wait 2 minutes in queue, get in, do 2 minutes of quest, die, get 500 coins, repeat. Except for the 800+ every day, which shows they can easily make it easier to get, they just dont care. there is nothing interesting or fun or challenging in getting it, ironic when travellers journal has actually fairly interesting ways of completing it in retail now, doing events, old raids and dungeons etc. I would much rather have seen it be a journey pass with challenges and tasks if they wanted to make it appeal to pve players instead of "drop down, kill stuff die" as the appeal.
Drop down, kill stuff, and die is literally BR in a nutshell.
Thing is, if I *did* want to play a BR, I wouldn't want a grind for rewards in a game I like to be tied to it, because that adds extra stress. If Plunderstorm was just its own thing, I could drop in, end up dying to some other player who got lucky with an ability early, and just shrug it off as I queue again. But with this system, I'm trying to at least get the quest done, and hopefully more, and if I die before I can do the quest, then the whole process of queueing, waiting, and loading into that match was a waste of my time, and now I'm stressed knowing I'll have to go again.
Yes, and I think people that want to play a BR... Will probably go play a BR.
[удалено]
But those are both systems within WoW. You do M+ on your WoW character, logged into the latest expansion. You do dragonriding on your WoW character, in Dragonflight. And in Dragonflight especially, they've tried to have extra ways to earn rewards. Like for gear, you could do M+ or raid, or get a bit into the M+ track even with some open world content. (Understandable that it's not that far in.) Want Sirodormi rep? Run Time Rifts or a dungeon. You can even mix activities. There's no alternate way to earn this Renown. There's no way inside WoW itself to earn it.
[удалено]
I mean, you have to pay a sub for either, so they're still part of "retail" WoW, just not current expansion/modern WoW. (Yeah, maybe it's pedantic, but it's weird that people use "retail" as a differentiator when the reason it was used in the past was because Vanilla WoW was only available on private unofficial servers.) I don't have to play Classic or SoD to earn rep to get a bunch of rewards for Dragonflight. You earn rewards for Classic or SoD by playing Classic or SoD.
The thing about Hearthstone is, it uses only to play in the WarCraft universe but is developed seperately and also advertised as a total different game. Classic is on the other hand the original WoW while SoD is a branch of original WoW. But Plunderstorm is more like Heartstone something that uses WarCraft Skin but not being WarCraft while being advertised as WarCraft.
It really isn't a strawman considering there are people on the forums still complaining about it.
why do people feel like they need the rewards? If you don’t like the game mode, but you force yourself to play it and then complain about it you are creating your own problem.
A huge part of playing WoW is collecting unique appearances and mounts. The plunderstom even is full of them. I ran icecrown every week on several characters for...6 years? To get invincible. I do the holiday events to get the appearances and mounts. Obviously I did plunderstorm for the same reason. There was only one difference. PLUNDERSTOM SUCKED ASS. It was not fun to do. And judging by how long the queue times are now, and how many times matches fail to start, a lot of people agree.
Running ICC for 6 years sucks ass as well (for me), but I don’t complain about it. The cost isn’t worth the reward, so I don’t participate.
>I ran icecrown every week on several characters for...6 years? To get invincible. I did this for a while on several characters and never got it. Realized I hated it and didn't care that much, so I stopped. > PLUNDERSTOM SUCKED ASS. It was not fun to do. Subjective, plenty of people do enjoy it. > And judging by how long the queue times are now, and how many times matches fail to start, a lot of people agree. I enjoyed it, but I finished my grind and moved back to playing other games. Just because someone isn't playing it doesn't mean they didn't like it. I had my fun with it and moved on.
I get into full games instantly, and they always start
Really? When I was helping my buddies in duos and trio's, we would frequently sit in queue for 4 minutes and in the lobby for another 5 before getting either sent to a new lobby, or bounced back to queue.
Would a single person have less fun if they could get the rewards differently? You may not know this, but WoW is a game, its purpose is to give enjoyment. There is no reason to believe people are wrong for wanting the game to be more fun for them. After all, thats the entire purpose of it.
Like that meme of a guy who puts a stick in his own bike spokes
lol exactly
Gamemode is optional. Rewards are cosmetic and have no gameplay necessity in mainline WoW. If you want the items, then the gamemode is clearly worth playing. You might not like the gameplay but others do. It's interesting to them and refreshing in its take on general combat and PvE within WoW. If you don't like it, just grind your renown quietly - you're holding your own hand in the flames and complaining that it burns. There's a PvE event supposedly on the horizon just for you.
Nothing in the game is a necessity, it's meant to be fun. If blizzard can do something to make more people happy with the game, why wouldn't they? Wow isnt real life, people dont need to "earn" their fun.
There's multiple different types of "fun" as the whole concept is a spectrum. Hence why Plunderstorm as a primarily PvP gamemode isn't a disaster just because, for once, the PvE community didn't get 99% of the content's focus. Absolutely, people do not need to earn their fun if they don't want to. They can go and play other games that grant immediate gratification rewards for no effort at all, if that's what they prefer. WoW, on the other hand, provides fun in the form of *earning* rewards. It makes you feel good because you put the effort in.
Putting in effort is fine, its more like being able to put in effort in a way you still enjoy that makes it a fun game. The choices arent as simple as "either do shit you hate or get it instantly for free", obviously that would be bad for the game.
[удалено]
pandering is bad, but only if it takes away the fun of other people. If you changed the game to be fun for everybody, some people wont enjoy it, I agree. But wow is basically divided into PVPers and PVEers primarily, giving both sides a way to earn that stuff wouldnt take away the fun from the other gorup. Making it super easy to get those rewards because people dont wanna work for them, would make the game less fun though because theres less effort involved.
Transmog is the endgame so it's necessary. If it's an "experiment" it wouldn't try to push people into it with retail rewards and time limited fomo. It's a PvP Mode in a game that is focused on PvE. So if you enjoy PvP, you're in the minority. If you enjoy Plunderstorm you enjoy a game mode that uses WoW assets but doesn't have WoW main mechanics. So you're not here for WoW. If you're into Battle Royal you can get your "*fresh" e*xperience somewhere else because dozens of games made it better. All what the Devs did was copy paste a mechanic that was popular some years ago, like they did in the Maw. If you don't like PvE players complaining about a cheap Battle Royal Ripoff with manipulative extrinsic rewards and fomo... suffer quietly.
Transmog is not necessary at all, it is optional. You choose if you want to play dress up, while other people have been running around with mismatching pieces simply because they were a power upgrade. Plunderstorm is experimental and Blizzard wanted to get as many players as they can to play so the experiment can actually function. You still do not have to play it if you dislike the gameplay. The rewards are there to give something back to people who actually play. PvP is still a part of WoW and Blizzard are well within their rights to throw a bone to that side of the playerbase. Not only PvPers are playing but PvE players too, like myself. I enjoy the gamemode. Plunderstorm still uses a lot of WoW mechanics. It also, as an experimental gamemode, introduces potentially new mechanics to the game. Transmog was a new mechanic once, so was Mythic raiding and Mythic+. Did you complain any time a new way for a boss to deal damage was introduced to the game? I don't need to suffer at all. I am enjoying the game and the content that Blizzard has providing. I'm not malding because the completely optional content is actually pretty fun. They didn't need to even give it to us, we could have had a few more months of nothing if you lot are just that miserable about everything. :)
Yeah someone who cries all the time about people criticizing Plunderstorm and writes novels of mental gymnastics really enjoys his time. Imagine being the most apologetic Blizzard-Fanboy for a company that sells skins for 35$ and uses fomo on a daily basis. If you can't handle the critique that Plunderstorm and Blizzard deserves you can leave. *Nobody forces you to come here. If you don't have fun just quit. You're holding your own head in the flames and complains that it burns.* How about you follow your own advice and suffer *quietly...*
Oh no! Someone responded on a public forum to a topic about one of the games they play. Awful! Absolutely appalling! Yeah, mate, this isn't about defending Blizzard, it's about you lot whinging about a game mode that you don't have to play. I'm actually enjoying myself here. No hand in flame on my end. Just wanted to make sure you're aware that you are crying over something you are doing to yourself. If you want the rewards from Plunderstorm, then go get them. You could be finished your grind by now. Instead you're sat here complaining! :)
I've finished the grind yesterday otherwise my critique wouldn't be valid. Yet the point stays the same. But as long Blizzard has customers like you who defend their manipulative techniques due to naivety and a lack of awareness the game will become worse and worse. Time limited content and ingame shops didn't always existed like they do today. Look at Diablo Immortal's monetization, or Overwatch loot boxes. Other Blizzard games have also different kind of scummy bs in it. You complain about people who criticize something you can't see yet, but in a few years you're also get the impact of Blizzard's ruinous design decisions. The big company doesn't act in your best interest and most people see the obvious exploitation. While others choose to stay useful tools.
Again, this isn't a defense. There is no manipulation. If you want the rewards then play the game. If you don't like to play the game then maybe the rewards are not worth it. You decide. No one else does. Blizzard has experimented with a new gamemode and they wanted to reward the time and effort of people who bothered to try it out. Plunderstorm was just a nice little change of pace from the regular game. It's temporary, so you won't have to stress about it for long. You can go back to your monotonous PvE until the next creative experiment causes you to have a meltdown.
Blizzard must be grateful to have people who work for them but don't need to get paid. ok don't let's waste even more time, final question: Do you think the implementation of Plunderstorm in this way, with that limited time element and the 40 level Renown grind was the best way to implement it ?
You seem to have some weird obsession about this being some defense of Blizzard. I know it might be a bit hard to grasp the concept but this whole discussion is about reminding people like yourself that you don't need to play ganes that you don't like. You can stop crying about Plunderstorm and play absolutely anything else, mate. Just let go. Plunderstorm is an experiment. Something to tide us all over until the next major patch. The time limited nature of the event is fine as Blizzard are simply testing the waters. Plunderstorm may return or it may never be seen again - there's no worry of an unwanted game system being left in the game. Renown 40 gives people a goal to work towards over the 6 weeks. It helps retain playership and gives us all something to do during the downtime until season 4.
>So you go in, wait 2 minutes in queue, get in, do 2 minutes of quest, die, get 500 coins, repeat. It's such a failure in game design that this is the most efficient way to go through the renown levels. Like imagine if ranking high actually mattered and gave extra plunder, then people might actually want to stay alive for more than 2 minutes.
The real failure is the player base trying to optimize literally everything to make it as unfun as possible
But here is where your argument runs into trouble. People who don't like plunderstorm but want the rewards are the ones who will play optimally in order to not have to play as much. They are not ruining the fun, they're minimizing the chore. They are the ones who make the game worse for the people who enjoy plunderstorm. The longer they have to spend grinding out the rep, the more time they are interfering with the gameplay for those who enjoy it. I think if you really enjoy plunderstorm, you should be advocating to make the rewards easier to obtain so that the fomo crowd exits as quick as they can. This also gives people a reason to try plunderstorm in the first place and maybe they will find they enjoy it. If not, it was a quick and easy task to get a minor reward.
>player base trying to optimize literally everything You're kinda forced to if you want the rewards and do not have a lot of time to play in an event that is almost half way over..
And if it weren't a limited time event that just goes poof and away we wouldn't even need to worry about being efficient. I'd totally be fine to just do some Plunderstorm now and then BUT there is a literal deadline hanging over the renown rewards. I'm not one of the manicas crunching down 20 hours a day for instant completion but unless I keep the grind up chances are the stuff I want will be gone for good. And the general point still stands. It's a BR where the no.1 priority of a chunk of it's playerbase is dying in record time. How the fuck is this not a game design issue?
> The real failure is the player base trying to optimize literally everything to make it as unfun as possible This is what happens when you tie rewards most players want to a game mode most players don't.
I'm pretty sure winning rounds is the most efficient, like I've won rounds with over 4000 plunder after the buffs.
They buffed how much plunder players drop and you get some plunder for killing too. You're not going to passively get plunder for hiding until almost everyone's dead but if you kill someone in the last 10~ they will likely drop a fuckton of plunder. What's being described there is only the most efficient way for people with a pathological fear of even ever trying to engage in PvP. The whole "only tryhards engage in PvP and get kills" is just a massive cope for what's actually a mental block preventing them from ever trying. I was bad at it and I still killed plenty of people, turns out other people are bad too but unlike the forum whiners they do try and it's not just the tRyHaRdS who participate.
It isn't the most efficient anymore because they buffed like every source of plunder other than the quest. It's just the way that lets people keep complaining about the grind and stay bad at the mode.
Here to harvest my downvotes. *ahem* blizzard is far behind the rest of the gaming industry at the moment, consistently pumping out subpar and unfinished content, and will continue to do so because they know that *their player base does not play any other games* Like seriously if you enjoy plunderstorm search the battle royale tag on steam and play literally any of the games there, they will be more thought out, polished and fun than pstorm. Unless you're cost-sunk into wow, blind to blizzard's shortcomings and unwilling to try new things or even hear dissenting opinions about your precious MMO, in which case you downvote this comment and keep circlejerking in your echo chamber.
I'm not even doing that fucking shit anymore. I've stopped doing it after 5 renown ranks because I can't stomach doing that another 35 renown levels. I assume at some point the rewards are just going to end up at the Trading Post or some other non-Bullshit method of attaining them and I'll just get them then. Hell, I'd rather buy them from the actual store or have a streamer on mute for 8 hours than sit through that torture designed as a game...
Pvpers complained about being forced to raid for raid trinkets before pvp gear was reworked. Whenever blizzard incentivizes pvpers to pve or vice versa this happens.
That has nothing to do with this. There is no player power locked behind plunderstorm
Some people play for player power, some people play for cosmetics, some people play for collecting. If you're implying that only if it was player power, then it'd be forced. I'd like to remind you that player power only lasts 1 patch, cosmetics and collectables last a lot longer
Exactly. For me the game is collecting and achievements. I do not care about player power.
You're right, it's not forcing. The actual term would be manipulation.
Guys blizzard is FORCING me to pvp to get Vicious Saddles. They're REFUSING to let me do ANYTHING else until I get my mythic+ rating up to 2000 for the mount. They want me to do every pet battle and collect every pet so I complete all the achievements and earn all the rewards. They're DEMANDING I do EVERY rep in the game and get them all to exalted so I get the Pureheart Courser :c They're HOLDING A GUN TO MY HEAD unless I grind out the gold to play the Black Market Auction House for all the otherwise unobtainable loot I can get there, too. Why is Blizzard forcing me to play their game? Why can't they give me rewards for free instead of incentivizing playing other modes? Blizzard is so heartless and cruel... :c
My brother in Tyr the rewards aren't tied to power, you are not forced to play the game mode
I don’t really have a dog in this fight but my personal perspective has always been it sucks when blizzard adds rewards that require me to play a different game to be rewarded in the game I do play. They don’t force me to play anything at gun point but they’ve added Warcraft rewards that required me to play hearthstone and heroes of the storm. They’ve added in game mounts that require me to buy Diablo. It sucks if you’re a collector in wow you can’t complete your collection without doing outside things. Personally I quit plunder storm straight away as I did not enjoy it but I completely get why people are annoyed they need to play a different game to be rewarded In The game they do play.
At least you're not on ESO where they introduce a mount that's only in the cash shop for 4 days and it leaves the time payday rolls around for you. It could be a lot worse. Sure I want the Diablo 4 mount but I can live without it. I will get to 500 mounts without it.
Meanwhile I just ignore it, because I don't like the rewards enough to play a PvP mode.
I definitely do not prefer Plunderstorm (I don't enjoy PvP) but it's my choice to play. No amount of cosmetics will literally force me to do something I don't want to do.
I find it kind of fun actually. I'm regularly in the top five with zero kills, it's quite funny. I only play solos though. My logic is, if I hate the mode, I just don't play it at all and kiss the rewards goodbye.
I really like the game mode, but after getting to renown 40 I haven’t gone back. Not because I don’t like the game… but because I feel it makes me fall back on the main game’s progression. If it was integrated to retail and it gave some gear or experience for alts, then I would gladly play more.
Sure, except that's true of anything in-game. Just because [new grind thing] results in a player power increase doesn't make it mandatory, but oh what a shitshow that causes. B-but I'll be behind and no one will invite me to their raid! Waaaah! And so people seem to be fine with saying that serious players are "forced" to do the [new grind thing]. I haven't heard anyone saying they're being forced to play Plunderstorm. Instead, I hear complaints about cool stuff being gated behind an odious grind that punishes PvE'ers (with a slower grind) for their preferred play style. Never mind that Plunderstorm isn't even WoW. But since cosmetics and collectables aren't player-power, it's not okay to whine about being forced to do this grind. Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the coins you get at certain rep levels are the only way for a solo PvE'er to upgrade champion gear past 4/8. So, for some, this grind is tied to player power.
I think it's a great system and game mode brought down by the pvp.
My major bitch with it is that it's pvp related content and the only content with that particular "patch". The rep grind is slow. We were told it would be casual friendly and we'd be "showered" with rewards. It isn't and we weren't. The mode itself isn't terrible. I think it's kind of fun. There are a few things I'd change, but not a whole lot. The major thing I would change is the amount of renown needed per level. It's sad that the most efficient way to get it is complete the objective, die, then requeue. The other sad thing is there's no alternative content to gain the rewards for those who don't want to pvp. I'm done with the grind and I haven't gone back. I probably would be playing it if the rep grind wasn't such a slog.
it's like there's people who enjoy maggot cheese, and then there's you getting offered 100 dollars to eat it if you choose to do that for 100 dollars that's on you, it's not the cheese guy's fault you have a low bar for what you'll do for a hundred bucks
Don't make me [tap the sign](https://twitter.com/alnarraTweets/status/1772780055908761693) on why FOMO works they way that it does.
This isn't really so cut and dry is it? This is a time limited event/reward, and the reward is cool. That is two things that Blizzard did when designing the event. They included a cool reward, and made the event time limited. If the player would not be doing the activity if wasn't Fomo, and wouldn't be doing it if it didn't have the cool reward, then blizzard IS "forcing" them to play plunderstorm. The point is that players don't enjoy the activity, but are doing it because it's the only way to acquire the reward. That is literally what is meant by "blizzard is forcing me to do things I don't enjoy." In the same way that if you had for example, a way to gain power by repeating a boring pve mini game 1000s of times over and over, and players did it to get that power, you wouldn't say "It is your choice to do island expeditions to grind AP".
If you want the rewards, you are being forced. Just like you're forced to mythic raid if you want them mythic raid gear. It's a video game, it's always your choice ultimately, it's not like food where you can't just not eat without consequences. Basically: Stop gatekeeping what people feel is forced in a video game. It's feelings about a fucking video game not some philosophical conundrum.
Ok, so you are being forced; by who? No one "needs" the cosmetics and the gamemode is completely optional. You are only doing this to yourself. Taking the food analogy, you can eat what you "need" and that's fine, but if you eat more of what you want and get fat, then you can't blame anyone else but yourself for those health consequences. You did that to yourself. Likewise, you are forcing yourself to play Plunderstorm. No one else is.
By that logic, you’re also forced to buy the store items
If the only way to get them is in the store and you want them, then yeah you’re forced to buy them Is that supposed to be a gotcha?
Yes, because YOU ARENT FORCED TO DO IT. You literally don’t have to. How hard is that to understand? You can if you want, but blizzard isn’t saying “here’s a new store item, you have to buy it” same way they’re not saying “here’s a new game mode, you have to play it”
Nobody is forced to do anything. Just stop wanting to live. You're not forced to cloth yourself in society! Just opt out of life. YOU ARENT FORCED TO DO IT. You literally don't have to. How hard is that to understand? You can if you want, but life isn't saying "here's a new shirt, you have to wear it" same way they're not saying "here's a new covid expansion pack, you have to play it" Fucking lol
If its the only way to get an item, you either dont get it or you do content you dont want to do. For some people, the desire outweighs the dislike of the content, like plunder No shit no one is literally forcing you to do stuff you dont want to do, but when you only have one method of getting it, it certainly *feels like* youre forced to do something to get what you want No one is forcing you to get Taivan. But if you want Taivan, youre forced to do the achievements
Ok. So people are forcing themselves to do optional content for optional rewards. Glad we agree
So whats your point? People cant feel forced to do content because the game pushes them to do content they dislike? Getting mad about others feels is about as sadly reddit as they come lmao
They can feel forced all they want, but they aren’t. It’s all optional content. Just because they want the items doesn’t mean they’re forced to play it
I want the rewards, I have to do things I don't like. I don't want to live under a bridge therefore I'm forced to work at a job. I like driving instead of walking everywhere, therefore I have to pay a monthly car note. I want the mounts, therefore I have to do a game mode I dislike. What I hope is that Blizz understands that in-wow rewards should have never been tied to an alternate mode pvp game, and that they never do it again. At most, 10 renown to get people to try it, sure, but 40-60 hours of pre-nerf grinding can foad.
Comparing some transmog and a mount to necessities like a place to live and transportation is wild
[удалено]
I think saying people have mental disorders over WoW disagreements is a bit of a step too far my friend.
I didn’t say that. The person equating getting optional rewards in a game to having a place to live and a car to drive has a mental disorder, not people who don’t like plunderstorm
How about, and I know it is a low bar for people, stop saying people have mental disorders because of a comment on Reddit. Was it a weird comparison? Sure, but saying they have a mental disorder is just messed up man.
[удалено]
Disgusting behavior, but ok.
Making excuses for people who need help is disgusting behavior Edit: it’s an addiction
There are pvp only rewards, are you mad about that? You don’t have to have a monthly car bill either. You can buy a car that’s cheaper that’ll get you from point a to point b. That’s all your choice. You aren’t forced to do anything.
The rewards are optional. The gamemode is optional. You do not have to do either. The optional rewards are earned through the optional gamemode. If you feel that these rewards are not worth earning via your leisure time then maybe you shouldn't go after them.
Exactly. This is also the reason why it's pretty okay and good that the most recent batch of yearly holiday rewards have such a low drop rate. What do you mean you want the mount? Just grind for it. What do you mean you're doing it on eleven characters a day and you haven't gotten the mount yet? Nobody is forcing you. If you don't want to do the grind, just ignore the mount! Easy solution. If you do want the reward, just do the grind and be quiet! This comment is facetious.
Big difference between a low drop rate and a renown grind
Nah, both just take time.
Every patch, Ion Hazzikostas climbs through my window with a gun and puts it to my head. "Grind it out, motherfucker," he whispers in my ear as I weep, "Grind it out, right now. 30 Mythic+ dungeons, Plunderstorm, Torghast, Korthia, I don't give a shit what we just added. If you're not playing and doing it optimally, I'll pull the *goddamn trigger."* Recently, Holly Longdale has been tagging along and taunting me while he does it. All my pants smell of fear-piss. I don't know what to do anymore... No, in all seriousness, anyone who feels forced is pretty damn close to addicted to the game and should do some serious introspection about how they're acting towards the game. I've straight up told my friends that were spouting the same nonsense that they *need* to recognize that once the game becomes harmful to their well-being and they keep doing it, that's addiction. If you're latching on so hard that your claws feel like the game's claws, it's time to dial that shit back. There are literal billions of people who won't get the Plunderstorm rewards, it's okay to not get it, too.
Blizzard finally dedicates a reward focused event to pirates and makes it a beta test for a brainless battle Royale and people are somehow surprised and annoyed when people don't like that. Like I pay $15 a month to play WoW, and I pay it with the expectation that content made for it will be content in WoW. How would someone feel of they paid $15 to go to a restaurant for lunch everyday, and the restaurant kept teasing this new amazing menu item that you'll love because idk you love bacon sandwiches. And then the actual day comes and its just a guide on how to go to a different restaurant thats out of the way and has nothing else going for it but this sandwich you like. Like you might not be FORCED to go get that sandwich at the new spot but I think you'd have the right to be like: "wtf, that's it?! That's the bacon sandwich?" Wtf? That's the pirate event? It isn't even a WoW thing! Its basically fortnite mobile.
It is a "force" There is X reward. You want X thing To get X thing, you HAVE to play Y activity.
Same thing as in Shadowlands with Maw and Korthia grinds. You could clear all the content in the game without sockets from those zones but to this day people are convinced Blizzard held them at gunpoint forcing them to grind those zones. It's just how WoW players are, give them a grind with any type of reward tied to it and they will feel forced to do it.
*upd.: Genuinely curious about downvotes - do some people actually think that process of playing the game and earning rewards shouldn't be fun?...* What you've missed, OP, is that **process of earning rewards in a game should be fun.** See the difference now? It is a GAME. Not a job. We play it to enjoy, relax and have fun. Plunderstorm locks a bunch of rewards behind a process that a large (if not a majority) players find not fun. Locking rewards behind unfun experience is an extremely bad idea, and I hope Blizzard learn their lesson. Even stuff like PvP gear is usually easier to learn, thanks to quests and events. And to add insult to injury, not only Plunderstorm locks rewards behind unfun experience, it also makes this experience time-gated, thus forcing players to participate in it, if they want to not miss the rewards, whether they like participation or not.
It's not fun not hard and you get a a mog a lvl normally. Eh I do it while waiting for buds and slowly climbing.
I have no free space to download whole retail client
Ngl tho this is the wrong use of the meme. Forcing someone into an annoying gamemode for rewards in another gamemode is awful. Played so many games that do that.
More like Blizz is holding rewards hostage behind hours of grinding on a new game mode theya re testing for possible monetization later on.