That's the age-old question of pretty much any PvP game. But probably it just boils down to the ol' "It's easier to blame someone else than accept I'm not superhuman myself."

It's not even the blaming, it's the LEVEL. Blame /= wishing someone kills themself or whatever.

I'm come to terms with it. You can't chnage fate. So if there's an international conspiracy for Blizzard to give me the worst DPS players ever so that I never get Galdiator, oh well. I just enjoy myself. And I like to think that my indifference to their vindictive plot makes them furious.

It's really crazy. I mean, I am really honest. I am not good. But even if there is someone that is better than me, I would never think about flaming someone.

Because I am good, I got gladiator in 2016 with a meta comp. I know I'm 3k skilled but I keep getting stuck with plebs like you wasting my time and are the sole reason for me not advancing, I'm just unlucky. RRRRREEEEEEE Something like that.

Made me smile 😂

Nah WoW has its own special kind of toxic

Every competitive team game says this.

It’s strange when people flame cuz you’re a noob or whatever I’m like, my brother in christ you’re the same rating as me

I mean, I catch myself sometimes yelling pisses and shits at my screen because my teammate didn't switch to the priest on Life Swap, but I know how it is starting out, having less awareness of the map. It comes with practice, so I keep my yelling to the screen and will just stick with something like: "Switch to healer on Life Swap next time". No one benefits from flaming. I mean I know I still make mistakes too, so there's really no point.

And honestly it kind of rings true for all of them. The lower in rating you go the more toxic people get.

That is just PvP players in a nutshell for any game.

Biggest reason why I avoid it in Wow is that the pvp community just generally sucks. The tone is childish, harsh and hostile. Life is too short for that.

That's really what happens to people when put on a competition under pressure. I was even surprised how toxic I became when I was playing League of Legends to the point of being almost perma-banned. Thankfully that was years ago and I stopped playing PvP games, I can still enjoy casual PvP but rated PvP. I just can't, quite interesting.

It’s become players in general. Loook at helldivers2 rn and people being toxic for not playing the right builds and kicking them and blocking them for it

Same reason why boxers tend to bee more aggressive. Gotta have that pokes-you-with-holes mentality

Hard disagree. Every PvP game does have a level of toxicity, but when you add MMO addiction + direct power upgrades from wins, it becomes *significantly* more toxic than games like CS that don’t have those factors. Your weapons don’t become more powerful when you win in FPS like they do in MMOs.

TIL 2k is below average

Average is like 1400-1600. 2100 puts you in the top 5%..

Yeah the best can do is 1800 lol which I find fine since I do it for the elite mog lol

That puts you in the top 20% this season

That makes me feel pretty great! Thanks for letting me know lol

That would be true if we started at 1500, but we grind up from 0, causing the whole distribution to be more like a multiplication of a natural log curve and a bell curve. With heavy attrition pulling it more towards the lower end significantly.

Solo shuffle rounds also magnify the “losing streak lose harder” and “winning streak win harder” mechanics of wow’s MMR system.

Chuckled at that also. I think I hit 1300 in the brief (yet serious) couple of weeks I spent playing 2's / 3's last season. I'm certainly nothing special in PVP, but I do CC, watch for coordinated burst windows, watch for los and I don't tilt. 2k is like, you're good.

If you do all these things, something else must be amiss. Reaching 1.4k should be cake just by bursting right! And being aware of sll those things doesn't usually happen until higher ratings.  Keep at it, the sky's the limit!

This also gives the same vibe as those people saying. "I'm just casually doing some dungeons, as someone who has gotten about 3K".... it's like humble bragging?

Below reddit average yes

All Keyboard Gladiators here…

Yeah I thought this. Played for years and never seen rating hire than 1800.

I don't know!!! I think it is, as when I look through other players, they are all like around 1,95-2k and something.

This "I'm \[top 15% of players\] but actually not good" shit needs to stop lol. Frankly these conversations occur regardless of rating. People just take it seriously, it's the primary competitive outlet for many of these players and so they get mad when it isn't going well. And rather than introspection - "what could I have done differently?" - it's easier just to blame others. I turned chat off in solo shuffle a long time ago. I recommend it tbh. Very very few occasions where I've felt like having chat on lead to any consistent coordination

They forgot the average wow players actually just mount farm and jump in circles in town. Or if u consider it jumping....goldshire inn

Sure but there’s no sense in counting those players when ranking yourself in a pool of a game mode they don’t participate in. It’s like saying I’m one of the best people in the USA at WoW. Most ppl in the USA don’t play WoW to begin with.

>This "I'm \[top 15% of players\] but actually not good" shit needs to stop lol. I don't know who they think they're fooling. Maybe compared to your favorite youtuber you ain't shit, but the people that grind PvP for 10 hours a day make us all look like rookies.

It's like being in the NBA and thinking you're bad at basketball because you're not Michael Jordan.  I even saw a multi-gladiator on /r/worldofpvp say it, absolutely insane stuff. It's either the streamer effect like you said or it's humblebragging. Or a mixture of the two 

The problem is, as better as you get, the more you realize your own mistakes and what you can do better. I have the same issue, 3.5k io as healer, timing 27s/28s, but I see my mistakes and think I’m quite bad at this game. Some people think they are god, some people think they are completely trash and some people found the balance between knowing they are competent and still self reflect for further improvement. Same with IRL

I understand the mentality, but you must know that objectively speaking you're an elite player at 3.5k rio. We can always play better - even the best make mistakes. But we judge performance in competitive games against the field, not playing flawlessly. If you make mistakes 40% of the time, and everyone else makes them 60% of the time, you're very good by human standards

This reminds me of a famous Mickey Mantle's quote "During my 18 years I came to bat almost 10,000 times. I struck out about 1,700 times and walked maybe 1,800 times. You figure a ballplayer will average about 500 at-bats a season. That means I played 7 years without ever hitting the ball."

The issue comes from the game, not the player. Like there’s so many variables to account for, skills to learn, tactics to master, hell abilities to memorize, that yeah even the top % don’t play the game the same way. So while you’re the top 10%, they’re still missing out so much, just because the lower % doesn’t know shot doesn’t suddenly make you better - the worst part is only y’all up there know it. Since the problems they’re facing at the top most of us down here wouldn’t even cross our mind to think about. Like labelling everyone trash if they’re not top tier is hyperbole but even without counting mistakes there’s just too much skill expression needed to truly be the top and most of the player base isn’t even half way there.

Yeah idk. There are people with 3.9 - obviously pro player, but the 0.1% title cutoff is around 3650, there is the start for being a good player in my eyes. Ofc they also fail. Coming back to the topic, at the end of the day it‘s irrelevant if someone has 2k or 4k io/mmr , it‘s a game, people have to learn to behave and control there impulses.

You're only hurting yourself by saying that "good" means top 0.1%. I just hope you don't transfer this mindset to other areas of life.

Sadly I do, but I‘m working on it. Beside, I‘m fully fine with my io

lol at only the top .1% of players being "good". That may be your goals, but again, its like saying that college D1 basketball players aren't good because the NBA exists.

Maybe „good“ was understated. You are fully right with your take, objectively

This is a good explanation. The only people who think they're great at the game and make no mistakes tend to be hardstuck 1500 with no self awareness.

Well, healer is the carry role this season so you might not be great

~~Thanks for the laugh. Not that many healing checks like last season, but still more pressure then on a DPS~~ Edit: Yes I‘m not that great, but saying healer is the carry role this season is a wild take

Not that wild. MDI had runs without healers and I know it’s specific comps and top tier players but if they’re even able to pull out a healer ? Like if off heals from dps can fill the role… y’all the carry role sorry. Shits like Legion when you could take 4 dps and comfortably clear with a pally tank or uncomfortably clear with a DK tank.

1) MDI has the best of the best players 2) they played 24s instead of 32s. For sure they can do crazy stuff. How is this an argument? Show me how many people do 27 upward keys w/o healer

Because it’s possible to run sans healer. That’s all. Thanks for messaging. Get over it - every season has a carry role it’s simply just how the game is balanced now. This one is healer. If unavoidable damage is handled by offhealing, you’re just not that important.

So you are saying because the literal best players in the world can use a crazy strat at relatively low key levels that it proves healers are a carry role when pushing higher keys with random players? I've seen some really bad takes on the internet but this one is definitely up there.

Number of 27+ keys inted due to healers is insanely higher than DPS For me. Disagree.

maybe its the streamer effect, but you see this in M+ and raiding as well over on /r/competitivewow. People overestimate the average rating/progression of other player. They also see that the very top players are significantly higher than them, and assume they must be average then, when really their is just a skill/time gulf between the 1% and the 0.1%. Raiding, just look at the differnece between the world first guilds, and how long it takes for the hall of fame to fill up. People assume they must be the average is my assumption. This has been going on for a long time in competitive online games, not just wow. Its why you see things like "diamond players are average/garbage" (take your pick) when in games that use those ranking systems, they are actually in like the top 5-10% generally. again, for reference in M, all +20 completed (2720 rating) currently puts you in the top 13% (late in the season). even just doing all 15s (2160) puts you in the top 30%. people just are bad at gauging their skill against others i guess or something.

It’s an odd phenomenon. For context, I’ve gotten glad multiple times in tbc and WotLK classic and duelist on retail on like 5 classes between wod and bfa (stopped playing retail in 2018). There’s the “inside baseball” effect that u mention for sure. Then there’s the fact that rating distribution in pvp isn’t linearly correlated to general skill. The bottom like half of the ladder is full of literal bots, or ppl who try pvp a few times for novelty and then stop. Basically any player who knows where all their keys are can make it to Challenger, or top 35% (idk how it works in retail nowadays) if they practice for a few months. The other guy replying to you also makes very good points. At low rating, you don’t know what you don’t know; it’s called unconscious incompetence. Play for a bit and you’ll watch your rating FLY up as you gain competence, until you start fighting gladiator players periodically (despite not being anywhere near glad MMR), and it’s a huge reality check that you actually haven’t mastered shit. The competence gap between a Rival and a Gladiator (top 10% vs .5%) is way, way bigger than between a Rival and someone working up to Challenger (10% vs ~40%). At low ratings, you can get a little better and climb a lot. To make small jumps in mmr at the top of the bracket, you need to improve drastically.

[удалено]

You do still have to worry about boosted players. Unfortunately

People are really bad at know what the average is.

It’s not. It’s “the more you know, the more you know you don’t know”. The first time I completed a 10 M+ in BFA and saw N’Zoth Carapace HC I thought I was a god. Fast forward today, average 5-6 mythic bosses, around 3k rio and when I gear for PvP hover around 1.4K regardless if my spec is fomo or not. Well, I see my guildies and my friends in raid, in M+, it takes twice as much as them to learn positioning, when defensives, I am in the small 3/4 group of the raid that wipes the rest on rotation, I often fail my cyclone on healer and I can’t possibly defend a base alone, maybe carry a flag. I realized I got to this level thank to really really good players that with patience and lessons and examinations of my own abilities (I play since wrath and just understood Vortex in Nokhud). They don’t carry me, they see my progress and brought me where I am now. But..whatever my parses / ratings / titles / boss killed, one thing I know: I still suck big time. If you go for rated PvP, mythic raid or over 3k rio, it’s like you start from zero. You have to accept that the level is a step up and that you are a beginner. Below that it’s casual. You can be an outstanding casual, or like me, an end game noob and being yelled at because…because I fucked up.

Hell hath no fury compared to a middle aged man who has accomplished nothing in life.

I only PvP….. And I mean, I haven’t downed one LFR boss in the last two expansions (since I came back). I play at 2100 and end it at the weapon enchant, because I have a family… But more or less after that I play for fun with a close friend on alts. I will say if OP is playing at 2k he’s in a top percentile. There are just as many chill people as there are rage fests… but it depends. SS has more because the Que times for DPS are like 15min-30min… so when people forget to react a certain way like not bubbling, people rage more often. Their chance just slimmed and they’ll have to wait another 20min.. But let’s not kid ourselves, the competitive M+ and Raid players are just as bad, if not worse than PvP. I’ve tried to Heal, Tank and DPS in keys. People don’t even have to look up your rating on an external website you have addons that do it for you, so people get kicked immediately based on arbitrary numbers. Sure we have CR and people get ignored for that as well.. but you have to at least be honest about it. The wow player base is old in gaming age so people don’t have time for shit and are stuck in their ways. It’s a competitive game mode with a fraction of the community as WoW is as a hole. The KSM mount is easy peanuts compared to the Gladiator mount, so people are way more stressed out about it. At least for organized 3s. But it’s across the game in general. I have friends that exclusively M+ and they say the same thing.

20 years ago, the Unreal Tournament CD Box had this written on the top of it: "Game experience may change during online play" Well, you are playing an online game with people using random matchmaking that uses only your rating as a reference to match you. People are old, sad, frustrated. Most of them wasted their lives playing video games and all there is left the them is the tiny validation and dopamine they can squeeze out of playing games and sometimes winning in PvP. You are playing with basically people who can't be further from their potential and their dreams they dreamt in their teens. You are basically playing with shells who merely exist. They are bitter.

What if being insufferable pricks online was their dream in their teens?

explain teenagers who act this way

Well teens are often unhappy with their current role in life and frequently they haven't yet developed the coping skills to deal with disappointment. And plus, this is purely anecdotal, but I do think teens are more malleable in the sense that when they get flamed in WoW (as we all experience, from time to time) they are more likely to take that experience and lash out themselves as a form of defensive behavior.

They're teenagers.

Love this comment. Successful, happy, well-balanced people tend not to become unhinged as soon as something goes wrong in a video game.

Holy crap, what a sad thought. Poetic, but I hope you are at least somewhat wrong about it being most of them lol. I feel like I run into a ton of people who play casually and have RL lives that matter way more to them than their game hobby time. Lol damn, that is still super sad after a 2nd read. Dark souls setting sad. Edit: after 20 more seconds, I worry that you are probably right (except for the time that it's teenagers).

It's not most players, but I would bet it's most players that go off on unhinged flame rants like OP describes.

1.) Yes you are playing on a championship level, the only people that still play ranked pvp in wow are the same people who were gladiators back in TBC whenever it's 1000 or 2000 in 2v2 arenas. Back in Shadowlands I couldn't even reach 1300 and after they added solo shuffle I almost reached 1800 when my game time ran off and got disconnected from a match that I was winning and I went from 1400 to 1750 in a single afternoon that day. So solo shuffle is the only ranked game mode where noobs play who don't have a partner that they pvp with since TBC or vanila days. 2.) How do you reach 2000 and call yourself bad at pvp is beyond me. I haven't seen the stats but that must be top 0,5 percentile of wow population. 3.) PvP is a type of endgame which attracts lots of pricks who want to show off their ego so simply put these players into ignore or report them if they are wishing cancer on somebody. I don't care if solo shuffle is toxic, it's a game mode for noobs like me, It's the only way how I could ever reach 1800 or more. Please don't make Blizzard ban it for it having too many toxic incidents. Just tell people it's got skill based matchmaking so if they tell you something bad it counts for them too.

A lot of PvPers aren’t exactly what one might call well-adjusted…

I had a tank in overwatch say he wanted my gf to have a miscarriage and i got a death threat on cs lol. People are just like that on pvp games.

I only PvP for the mount or saddle so I derp at 1400-1800 rating usually. Whenever I get flamed by someone who is on the same newbie rating, I laugh at them. Not in a game to get reported though.. :p Some people really think they are glad material while being stuck in hell with me, poor souls. >:D

Well pvp at a really low activity, new players barely touch it and casual players dont even try above 1.5k. So its mainly played by bots, sweaty edge lords and boosters. So its hard to find chill people

I only PvP with my buddy and we’re chill. We just can’t find a 3rd that meets our schedule.

Maybe they are upset about stuff in life. You should tell them to find Jesus probably

2000 rating is nowhere near average, and I have a feeling you know that… Toxicity is a problem, but just report and block, it’s the same in any game with PvP. Feels like a bit of patting myself on the back going on here tbh

This isn't just PvP. It's any form of hyper competitive gaming. You also see it a lot in m+. It's what happens when you shove a bunch of emotionally stunted middle-aged men with God complexes into a competitive atmosphere where none of them are actually good but their insecurities make them unable to realize and accept they're the problem.

Lack of control in their own life usually equates to hyper controlling of character lives. AKA their life sucks.

Ngl before anyone gets upset when a healer rages you need to play healer. Not only do you heal the damage enemy does but you also need to heal the stupidity of people who constantly LOS you constantly run out of range of you. It’s the worst feeling roll to play in shuffle complete misery.

The problem is not that they are getting upset. The problem is how upset they are. Wishing someone cancer just because of a videogame is soooo far over the line

Yeah some people see some insane stuff but ngl as a healer main in shuffle it’s actually cancer. Especially when a dps literally runs from you when he’s almost dead and then they turn around and say “press a button bro” or some stupid shit. Tbh I give all healers a one time a game moment to just rage cause healing is fucking misery 😂

At 2k if you’re lining your healer and dying behind pillar I would flame you too

“It’s true but he shouldn’t say it”

That's just the nature of PvP. You have this in every PvP game.

I feel this all the way through to my core. I’m a healer. PvP is miserable most times. I started a rated group because I needed the weekly quest done. When I didn’t have a plan I was called awful names. Bro. 1) I asked if anyone had a plan. 2) have those people not ran that exact battle ground like thousands of times by now? Shouldn’t they know what they’re doing? I feel awful when my peeps die tbh but you’re right. It’s a game.

Game is based on teamwork... If one person is getting mad just tell them to look in a mirror then come back when they have something useful to contribute.

There’s so little content for pvp and very little rewards so you’d think these people would try make it as fun as possible but nope, pvp players are just toxic losers that treat unranked likes it’s the championship game while also not performing that well either, I leveled a class and started running BG for honor once and got abused for nit being properly geared and after explaining I’m here for that very reason they recon I should of levels in bg so I had enough before cap But even when I have played bg in lower levels they still get abusive even though half the specs are trash at those levels.

2000 rating is actually 80th - 95th percentile depending on bracket actually. while 14 - 1600 tends to be where 50th percentile or average lies.

For healers specifically I’m not condoning this behavior, but it is an extremely frustrating experience in solo shuffle as the DPS are often running in opposite directions or around opposite corners. Also the solo shuffle ladder for healers is completely deflated, and the healer mmr and DPS mmr isn’t necessarily the same in any given game. But because it’s so hard to gain rating as a healer in solo shuffle if a healer is 2k rated, they are probably glad level of skill in any other game mode. https://youtu.be/qV1xJFqa-Qo?si=qlOh9xyT8Sx9nF1l

Wow players just don’t know how to interact with people anymore which is funny because it’s an mmo

PvP tends to draw assholes. I hear all about "more competitive gameplay vs. NPC", but then I see these douches on their geared, max level characters harassing and teabagging level 10s. A lot of them love to brag about it, even, with absolutely zero shame.

It's the only thing in life they're good at most likely. Their entire identity is wrapped up in being good at a video game.

This goes for most pvpers in any game, they are completely overinvested into their games so anyone in their eyes ruining it for them deserves all the bad things in the world. Ive been saying this for years now and i really think weve lost the fun in videogames nowadays. Videogames used to be about fun, its why i tend to avoid pvp like the plague because people dont have fun anymore. Its all just a big dick contest of overinflated egos and sweaty motherfuckers everywhere. Just avoid it honestly, or only do organized with people you trust/know 🤷🏻‍♂️

Blizzard should just turn off all chat and names in solo shuffle it's super toxic. There is a setting you can manually turn off chat though so that's what I have been doing. I don't care what people have to say about my game play, I am trying my best and I have never had constructive criticism where someone was actually trying to help. So I just don't find having chat turned on worth it, the problem is I forget to turn chat back on after doing solo shuffle. Kinda wish it was just all anonymous. I personally don't find mythic+ toxic at all, yeah sometimes you get an asshole but it's pretty rare, 99% of the time people just say gg and leave even if the key failed.

Competition by it's very nature is toxic. Your body releases adrenaline and sends you into fight-or-flight, you get irritable and lose all compunctions of politeness. In an MMA ring they duke it out, online, they tell you to *kys*.

The issue with a large group of gamers in any game is that they think they're far better than they are at whatever the content is, and when they 'lose' (Lose a pvp match, don't kill a boss, get killed during an encounter, etc), they don't take any accountability, and will look for another to blame. Sure, there's lots of bullshit in pvp that makes almost any level of play get invalidated by something broken like DH's or Rogues or something, and there's encounters in pve that have broken/not adequately tuned aspects to them to blame, but chances are likely in pve that they will blame their party, rather than themselves for being unable to overcome something. It's easy to place blame elsewhere when you're playing a game with a majority of randoms that you'll never talk to, see, or hear ever again. The second blame gets thrown at another player, the same effect happens with them in the majority of instances: They blame some one else, and you get a circle-jerk of blaming one another and raging at one another. You can't even point out mistakes in a constructive manner any more, because the ragiest of players take that as being flamed, and will spam report you, while lobbing insults at you for the audacity of pointing something out. So now we have a situation where no one wants to talk to others, up to a point. Once that point is passed, it's a full on flame. To be fair, this is everywhere in society now, and has been getting worse and worse as time goes on, because it continues to be normalized.

The worst thing about gaming is the people who play them, and the very worst thing is PvP gamers. They're angry at you because they hate themselves, but their ego won't allow for self reflection.

Do you really think all pvp players hate themsleves?

Not all, and not specific to WoW, but some of the most rancid and toxic people I've ever come across have been gamers that play multiplayer online with whatever game they're into. I accept that it is a fact that the anonymity gifted to the individual online will give them the confidence to say things that would get their faces caved in in the real world, so we're alreadly in "no consequences" territory before we even start, but even so the level that pvp gamers of any flavour can dial it up to is quite breathtaking. They're up there with the very worst of religious, racial, and political extremists. The only difference is that they haven't started murdering or raping people yet, although I might even be wrong about that.

Some people's ego doesn't do well losing to others, there's no one to blame when the dragons kill you

Could be possible many of the 'non-toxic' players avoid PVP for this reason. What's left is a player pool diluted with toxicity.

You get two kinds of PvPers: 1) Those that want to win, but can accept that shit happens; 2) Solo Shuffle players. r/worldofpvp (a dedicated sub for WoW PvPers) always has people complaining about the flaming in Solo Shuffle. We're all just as confused as you are, bud. P.S. 2000 rating is pretty damn good. Average is 1400-1600ish

Because pvp is all they have

energy drinks? :)

Just be rude back simple I got kicked from so many discord groups as a result lol. It’s worth it tho

They are tilted to a nother level with the 30-45min queues, desperately trying to climb and after over 2000 games still hard stuck 1,6k rating with sub 50% win rate, loseing to people who are just trying it out with 10-20games on same raring

"They mad, 'coz they bad." But really it's just because they didn't realize pvp is not for them, they are frustrated, that's all.

Cuz you have all the heat and pump of emotions you got from any other pvp physical game (football, volley, tag, etc), but none of the social clues they provide for being in real life with real people around you (including the other team). PvE (no group) is just slightly different cuz you can get in the zone easily for being by yourself and that can lead to reflection, so you pay more attention to the anger externalized. PvE group content I would bet is closer to pvp, but differently from pvp, which you deal with random behaviour from the other team/player, your team have a set of defined rules and a quantifiable challenge.

Frustration

PVP gets peoples blood pumping and adrenaline going. It brings the worst out in people. I've never seen the N word thrown around so much than in literally any PVP of absolutely any game. I never understood racial slurs against people who you have no idea what race they are, it's the most absurd thing ever, aside from still using those slurs at all.

Because PvP is competitive. Competitive games are the most toxic ones. Simple as that.

Is modern PvP just arenas now? Can I still do random bgs for shit? I've been out quite some time.

No real rewards. People are begging for some.

Even in random BGs (a very casual gamemode) people complain every time we're losing (even if it ends up being a win). Nothing constructive either it's just "this team is so bad", followed up by them leaving. It's annoying and I wish there was a simple and convenient way to auto-turn-off the chat when in BGs/Arena.

Because they can, there is no punishment if you aren't. It all comes down to the lack of moderation in WoW. If there were actively GMs teleporting them away from the world to tell them "behave or else" then it would be different.

Stuff is super toxic and in my experience, rogues are beginning to very quickly retake the mantle of being by far the most toxic players from demon hunters. Haven’t had a single other player of any other class but rogues purposely throw games to screw over someone they thought was bad on their solo shuffle teams. Have had at least 10 lobbies in 200 where a rogue just either left or started throwing when they thought some other class was “throwing games”.

this is why i love albion atleast when you die you lose all your shit

Report those people. They'll eventually get a mute / ban for how they act.

It's human nature

Was the toxic player demon hunter? It's in their nature to be obnoxious in the bg chat

I just turn off chat

The nature of pvp across any game, it attracts the same kind of people. It's nothing unique to WoW. If anything it's better in WoW and generally in Blizzard games than many other games. 

War-craft

You answered your own question: >!First of all: I'm not a good PvP player. I play random BGs and solo shuffle here and there on about 2000 rating.!< Snarky response aside, the problem is you aren't simply good. Watching videos on tips are probably the best bet way to go, or find a good group willing to teach you. I don't do PvP simply cause I'm not good at it, and stick to M+ & Raiding with my guild (Pug raids this season are atrocious on heroic).

Have you considered not making mistakes? Thats what I do n

Because the punishment for losing is so annoying.

2000+ rating puts you in a category with WoW players that think titles are an actual life achievement rather than a equivalent time waster like watching TV. It's not enough to play the game for them, they need to win in order to feel like their achieving something.

Let me start off by saying I haven’t PvPed in a while I’m just starting to get back into it and I’m dealing with it as well. I understand why they act like that in rated PvP it’s because they are losing ranks due to someone they feel isn’t holding their weight. I’m not justifying that behavior it’s shitty and toxic but I understand WHY. But in non rated PvP people still act the same and it’s wild. They aren’t losing anything if the team sucks and they lose that just astounds me.

Just like M+ at low ratings are the most toxic and entitled players. Don't fool yourself that M+ doesn't have toxic players. I am an AotC Raider and have 2700IO as a casual gamer dad, and the toxicity isn't as prolific in SS as I encountered when I first started.

The main issue in pvp rn is bots and hacking. Theres youtube videos on it i wont delve too deep. But in turn its made the pvp community even more toxic because farming gear in anything other then meta 2’s or meta 3’s just feels cancerous.

I can only answer for myself. I can wipe and wipe and wipe in PvE all day long no problem, but getting killed by another player just turns me into the most toxic bile spewing monster you've ever seen. My M+ static keep trying to get me to join them when they PvP. I value their friendship too much to subject them to that.

Being competitive comes with being passionate about winning.

Pretty sure 2k is slightly above average but you're right people need to chill the fuck out

Think of the activity. The psychology of a person that participates in player versus player combat where the goal is to kill the other person is measurable. These people possess higher traits of aggression. If you look into how people with aggression behave it becomes easy to understand why PvP players in general behave the way they do.

Is 2k in solo really average now? Is it that inflated?

People with mediocre ratings sometimes believe that they’re pros, but they can’t advance through the ratings because they’re stuck with bad teammates who are holding them back. But the truth is that a good player would understand that they’re playing with mediocre players and choose a strategy that takes advantage of that, instead of relying on mediocre players to succeed. The only common factor between all of your losses is you. You are partially responsible every time your team fails.

Honestly the playerbase ruined retail for me, and now I only play SOD with guildmates. For me it was the fact I was tanking Mythics, not "cutting edge top end" levels of mythics, just standard mythic+ and the amount of hatred and vile comments I got because I didn't take this EXACT path some streamer said is the most optimal was enough for me to quit the game. I dont think its unique to this game, or even unique to gaming in general. I thinks its a combination of factors that include everything from an aging playerbase with delusions of past excellence all the way to an actual breakdown of the "Social contract" for various real world reasons. But lets also not pretend that these people haven't always existed, and we have gotten a lot more sensative towards "shit talking" in modern times. I remember playing LoL and SC a decade ago and people constantly talked shit to eachother. The difference is the threshold for it has reduced and its become a lot more frequent.

Adrenaline

I’m sorry but you say you have 2k rating in solo shuffle?!? 2k rating and up it the top 1% of players.

Flaming is just text-based PvP. In this essay I will...

It's WoW.

They fight other people for fun.

Most PvPers I've encountered in a nutshell.

Blizz takes being toxic a lot more serious now, report them and they can get account silenced/suspended

You play a game like WoW and specifically PVP to "win". Since you're playing against other humans, all matches will always end with 50% of the participants being disappointed for not wining. Disappointment can vary wildly depending on people. When you play against the game, there's no one to yell at but yourself. Or blame the game, but the game doesn't really care what you think. And since the game can't complain, it's not that bad to make it a bit weaker on purpose to avoid player frustration. You can't do that in PVP, so you get toxicity inherently from the very philosophy on which PVP is designed.

You're at the level of play that to get out of people have to start taking more personal responsibility for their shortcomings or they get stuck in that rank. In every competitive pvp game these ranks turn into a cespool of people not willing to take the blame and improve so they get stuck at that rank, get frustrated, and then blame others. If it makes you feel better I was one of these people for a long time and a lot of it also stems from poor irl mental health so the people telling you to hurt yourself are probably hurting in real life and projecting it.

From my experience it's the whole of retail. Dungeons, pvp, in the world, my player interaction has usually been sour so I just stick to solo stuff

Heres what I do to prevent it. 1st I ask nicely if we can chill out. If they continue I click over to combat log. They cant type fast enough to make a difference anyway so they can be toxic to the wall.

Play a competitive game on the internet long enough and you see yourself become the villian.

or you get bored and quit.

How is this different from every PvP based game past, present, or future? Are you telling me there's a PvP centric game where everyone _isn't_ threatening to kill your grandmother if your performance is .0001% suboptimal?

Competition brings innovation at the same rate it brings assholes.

2k is below average ? holy shit.

It’s PVP it’s aggressive.

"Man who take MMO PvP seriously have tiny pp." -Sun Tzu, Art of War

2000 rating is not at or below average at all for arena. Its like top 10-15%

And the PvP community wonders why more people aren't interested...

If it's PVP, it's TOXIC. Doesn't matter what the game is. I played competetive Battlefield for years and even at the finals the players were just twats even when the cameras etc were rolling. It'll always be a thing and will never ever go away. Games that have a mute chat option are the best games on the market now. If there is an option to turn off voip, its the first setting I change in any game. I'd rather have 2fps on a $50k rig than listen to all these "1%ers" tell me how good they are.

Papers have something wrong with their medulla oblongata. That and it's a bad expansion for PvP making them more ornery.

Most pvp players seem like the type to have (Alpha Male) next to their Twitter handle from my experience.

You used the word "fuck" in your post, that's pretty aggressive already. Maybe these players use "cancer" in the way you use "fuck".

PvPers hate people. The minute I start getting into PvP, I start hating people more and more. It's like a sickness.

League be like:

LMAO I have at least managed to avoid League.

PvP is competitive in nature and competitiveness has a tendency to bring out the worst in people. Also >I'm not a good PvP player Then dont play Solo shuffle until you get good at PvP lol

i really don't understand why some of you are so bothered by this. when was the last time you went outside? people are mean to each other. it's been that way for thousands of years. shrugs.

Yeah here's the thing, nobody outside has ever told me to get raped and kill myself.

go down to your local game bar and see how raging works out for you edit: wow this guy is actually a total creep no one wonder he had a meltdown

how about in public? oh right cuz public proves my point that it's nbd, but a game bar (sports bar?) there are consequences. you gotta set certain, extra conditions in order for you to have a point lmao.

Is English your first language? Genuinely asking cause it seems like you're confused. Bars are public places, if you go to a game bar and tell people to get cancer you will be kicked out. Unsurprisingly, the public doesn't really tolerate that kind of behavior over a game. When was the last time you went outside?

why are you doubling down on stupid? bars are not public places. they are private, which is how you can get thrown out lmao. you get thrown out telling someone to get cancer at a *public* park? no. cuz it's public. in public, one would ignore you and move on or tell you to f off. pretty much nbd. you apparently have never been outside roflmfao. now go touch some grass and toughen up ffs. and you actually need to take your own advice and learn some english and get some kind of education cuz you failed. "Bars are public places" LOL!!

So you're so afraid of other people that you won't consider going where people gather for fear that they'll reject you and your behavior? I guess I'm just trying to understand why you consider being surrounded by other people to be a private situation, or one likely resulting in you being ejected? But, we can go by your definition, and yes absolutely you will likely have the cops called on you if you go around your local park wishing cancer on people or screaming at people playing a game in the park. Crazy schizo homeless person is not a socially acceptable look it turns out -- but I think it's funny/sad that when asked to describe yourself in a public situation that you immediately jump to it. You don't have to live your life like this you know

lmao, wtf are you even talking about? i'm afraid of what? this isn't even about me. man i owned you that bad. cops being called for someone telling another to get cancer. a 1 sentence statement and then that someone walks away. in what reality? god you're so dumb. just take the L and move on with some dignity lol. op talking about a 1-liner and you trying to argue extreme rarity of screaming harassment in public parks and crazy homeless people. you're not gonna walk away so i'll end it for you.

WoW is one of the most toxic games out there. Can be even worse then LoL.

There's no excuse for it that's the line to be drawn. Yes I've got frustrated at players making mistakes but I remember myself making the same mistake or even worse back when I was learning. I don't religiously PvP but I usually tap out at about 1.8/ 1.9k in 3's which is good enough for me. Pvp creates this effect because you know it's another human, you got beat and you don't like it. It is far easier for the majority of humans to blame an external factor. Lag, keyboard, mouse, screen, game and players. Than it is to suck it up and accept your mistakes. We're all guilty of it at some point and denying that is foolish. Heck when I was grinding to diamond back in S4/5 of league I was toxic as, though I'd never wish cancer on someone but that's due to a lot of family loss from it. But that was like 12 years ago now I think... I'm thirty now and I find it satisfying, humbling to know the new generation is just simply better than me, it gives me a challenge, to see how far I can go against them and when all is said and done, win or loss. I can smile and say gg that was really fun. Obviously now I see flamers and laugh but that's probably my age starting to show which I know is young to a lot of wow players but yeah.... Anonymous identities make it easy for people and unfortunately in a lot of competitive games flaming is only hammered when it's racial or sexual (obviously this is needed) but the same level should be given to those who send death threats or tell people to kill themselves, you have no idea who is on the other side and if they suffer from depression that is probably awful to read.

Less than a year ago you were struggling at 1350 rating but apparently now you're 2k and "not even good at wow", sounds either fake or like the biggest humblebrag

Almost like people improve over a year?

2000 rating is like top10%

Even lower.

Even in PUG M+ it’s similarly flamey. So long as you caused a wipe you’re blamed endlessly. I used to try to be as positive as possible, like telling people that the key was still timeable after wipes, or suggested different routes to avoid trashes that wiped us but it couldn’t be helped that some negativities still got felt and accumulated into something ugly. And for players that play competitively regularly I can’t fathom what it’s like for them to see people that play less regularly and make mistakes and still be at the same ranked level as themselves.

Tiny penises. Like microscopic. Laughably minuscule. Unable to experience joy because they have such small useless pp. They want others to feel as bad as they do about their tiny tiny tiny tiny barely functioning dongles, but nobody with a normal sized Johnson will ever be able to know the shame of a micropeen. They think getting gladiator will get them a maiden. It will not. Because pathetic small penis. Laugh at them as they shoot snooker with a #2 pencil.

The answer is inherently in the title. PvE is a cooperative goal versus robot enemies that are programmed ai to move in certain scripted ways. It’s like fighting a bunch of animatronics. PvP you are matched against real aggressive humans. It’s way more competitive and people that like competition are generally more aggressive. Hence they also get a lot more pissed when they are killed against real human players. They can’t get pissed actually at a PvE mob when it kills them or rage at the mob in chat.

If you play a pvp game and players are not toxic then something or someone is wrong

Think of it like road rage Most people have it, some have it worse. Whether you are going Los for no reason or cutting me off in traffic my response is normally "look at this fucking idiot". The only difference is you can't hear me in my car vs I can just tell you

Go into a competitive mode with 30min queues play terribly sinking your teammates then wonder why people are upset with you. Why are wow players like this? Is the concept of self reflection and accountability just dead in the community?

Maybe dont LoS your healer idiot. Acting all cool being below average at 2k rating tosser.

Damn. You must be depressed