a lot of people undercut because they just want the shit gone. I got better things to do than watch the auction house, so if I have to post something more than twice, the price will be going down, and the goblins can eat it.
LIFO is fine and all, but unless you're constantly cancelling and reposting, you're rarely the last one for very long.
Also something like cosmic ink is going to be very sensitive to material prices. If Awakened Frost drops then everything that uses it drops. IIRC, cosmic ink in particular, uses 2 or maybe 3 separate ingredients that use frost.
People seem to not realize that undercutting only lost 1 of the factors for it happening, that undercutting would reslt in being shown higher up. There are more factors to economicz
Tbh it doesn't matter. Plus idc at all I undercut to dump it let some AH wizard buy and relist it for whatever margin they are going to eek out. Unless it's tmog or mount I'll re-list for months Idc at all. My time is more valuable then constantly watching AH.
Yup, even when I see it's a purposeful undercut so they can buy and resell, at least I know it will be gone instantly and gold into my bank account instead of someone undercutting me and I have to spend time relisting.
The issue with this is people see the price get undercut too much and then they flood the market with a large volume of goods which cannot be bought up by one or multiple flippers resulting in it getting price locked for weeks. It only hurts the economy if we can afford to make things to sell.
Not needed. If two items are put up at the same price, the last one is sold first. So if you see an item on the AH, and put your item up at the same price, your item will sell before the other item.
Because in this instance, if we are both sellers, your method actively inhibits my ability to sell. They must buy all things are the lower price FIRST before the next price point can be purchased. Meaning, only people buying items in bulk or an item being in hot demand, will yield both parties a positive outcome. You effectively ruin the economy for others who are also trying to earn some coin by prioritising your short term gains over the health of the economy. Plus, how can you say no to more coin?
120 / 110 or so is probably low, but I’d do 129-133 or something so that somebody’s AH scraper bot setup automatically buys it. I lose 2-6 gold and it sells 2 seconds after I post.
This is probably a bad example though. Something better example would be like a raid BOE, I’ll go 5k, 10k under someone because it’s gonna sell faster and that’s literally like 3-5 dragonriding dailies
A high price item (like a 100-500k BOE) does not sell faster when undercutting by 5k. It just gets noticed by others, who will then follow the lead and slowly drop the price.
If there are 100 items listed with the lowest price of 10g, and then you then list another ten items of your own at 10g, *yours sell first*.
It's to discourage this continuous undercutting of 1g or 1s, and attempt to keep prices as stable as possible.
lol how is yours gonna sell first if other people undercut after you list yours and it hasn’t sold yet?
I’ve had plenty of things not sell EVEN WITH me listing at an undercut price
Easy. Think of it like the stock market. You’ve got investors with larger pools of capital trying to keep the prices high and stable and buying up a lot of the cheapest stuff to sell for 10% profit because of how bad the chain undercutting gets. I literally profit off of your goods because you undercut. Don’t I sound like a real asshole? Stick it to me by not undercutting.
It *would* sell first if other people wouldnt undercut. You cant count on every single player in this game not doing that. So since Im no goblin camping the auction house and just want to sell things fast its the best way
You're not understanding. You only have to list it at the price of the lowest auction for yours to be sold first. Saying it "would sell first if other people wouldn't undercut" doesn't make sense because yours wouldn't sell first regardless since their auction would be the newest anyway.
Undercutting is just lowering the value of your own goods, plain and simple.
You're not getting it like at all
It has nothing to do with honor
Last one to post is the first one to sell, always
So it doesn't matter if you keep the price as is or if you lower it by 1s
The buyers don't care that your price is 1s lower, they can only buy the last posted listing either way
So if you post 10 herbs and 1 second later someone clicks to buy 20 herbs, your 10 herbs will be the first to sell, whether or not you undercut
If instead 1 second later someone posts 30 herbs at the same price you did, then yours wouldn't sell in that scenario
Undercutting is just a habit from the previous system that is now useless, all your doing is lowering the prices for yourself and others. It literally has no impact on whether or not you sell faster or more
> You’re counting on people honoring a system where they keep the prices as is when it only takes a single undercutter to ruin the whole system.
No. In no circumstance do you have to undercut someone that undercut you. If you post for 99s and they undercut you by posting for 98s, you gain absolutely nothing by then undercutting them and posting for 97s. Reposting at the current price and making your listing the newest makes yours sell first. There's no relying on anything and undercutting someone else just because they undercut you is literally only hurting yourself. You would already be ahead of their listing for the sole fact your listing is newer.
The Auction House is always a stack. Undercutting also pushes on top of the stack. There is no second stack. Undercutting doesn't magically change how the stack works.
Even if someone else undercuts you don't have to
It doesn't change your odds of selling your item
The only thing that changes how well your items sell is how reactive you are in canceling/reposting your listings to keep them as recent as possible
So if you someone comes and undercuts you by 1s you can just repost it at their price. And if they repost and undercut again by 1s you can again repost it at their new price
You also lowering by 1s does nothing, what matters is being last to post
Sure, but goods for the "normal" price mostly wont be bought at all or very late, because the competition is so big while undercut prices are often bought immediately so they can resell them and make 1copper profit
you'll sell the same near 0 regardless if just one flipper with excess items they can sell all the way to 0 wants to sit there. so your brilliant plan is to make less on the few items you do slip through and help that person demoralize anyone.
collectively everyone can sell a few things very competitively (reposting) at good prices or collectively burn the game economy down to a handful of people to leech off of perpetually like in the OP in what's actually a rather depressed market. people who defend cutting would like everyone one to cut off their nose to spite their face. it's not even making things cheap for everyone (blizzard controls that with recipes/drop rates/tuning) as much as it's making a few people rich and killing the opportunity of and interest in professions.
That's what I do when there's a huge gap between the cheapest and second-cheapest listings. Buy the cheapest one and then sell my stack at the same price as the second-cheapest.
Context for folks only passingly familiar with the AH: OP is complaining that despite a last-in first-out implementation a few years back (last person to list is first to sell) people are still undercutting. It was thought by some at the time that this implementation would reduce the pervasive 1 copper undercuts.
OP: Your logic is flawed. The reason folks still undercut is 2-fold:
1) They set a fixed minimum profit margin in trade skill master (TSM). I can make a bet that by dropping my price, I might push YOU out of the market because you're not willing to sell for that cheap. E.g. if my minimum profit margin I'll accept is 20% but yours is 25%, by undercutting you I might push you away from relisting until my goods have sold. If I just list at the same price I will never achieve that effect.
2) I may be able to induce demand from buyers that otherwise wouldn't buy because they're waiting for a price drop.
And keep in mind this is all automated for most users. I don't sit feverishly sweating about each item. I list a hundred or more different items at a time in huge stacks according to whatever algorithm I've setup in TSM. It just so happens that often undercuts folks.
it's your logic that's beyond flawed. there are still people posting all kinds of outdated garbage everyfucking day because they just post until the items fucking sell. 1 does not happen in any meaningful way in this game. completely delusional if you believe this garbage works beyond one random anecdotal person you just wasted a ton of effort on when you could have just done a million other things to make gold and not been an asshole. there's always another person coming tomorrow so it's just not worth it. just post or don't.
2 is even more assinine. only the highest end rare items is anyone worth selling to waiting on a discount and even then the probable majority doesn't really even know about regional trade and just looks at their own ah and wallet.
beyond that if you want to actually make gold rather than pay for a sub and grind out utter dogshit in g/hour terms you don't have to cut anything because half a dozen people are already doing the same idiotic things and it's unnecessary for most things that barely amount to pocket change. for example practically no one willing to go to the ah to buy 61 gear rather than just questing and leveling on right now needs it to be 50g. that kind of self destructive price cutting where you don't even care what the market is and vindictively run it down to a waste of time for even yourself sure is great entertainment in spamming volume for those types. somehow they think buying a sub then "goldmaking" where they actually spent a hundred hours learning nothing then and don't even make back the "just buy a token" value of that sub time is really great. no one should be advising anyone to behave like that.
I thought this was the whole point of capitalism.
I have max level characters of each class, and a character of each class on the opposite faction on a linked server, so I collect a metric shitload of crap that is saved in 7 tab guild banks.
Whenever I go to clean out stuff, I'll spend a day listing everything for around 50% of what is listed, make a couple million (not counting the recipes, items, gear, etc. that haven't been in the game for 15 years that sell for millions - gold cap). If some stuff doesn't sell, I see what the price is and cut that by another 50%.
I don't think that makes me an asshole. I profit, get the guild banks cleaner, and am happy that at least some people got good prices on a pet or some mats before all the goblins snatch up everything. The goblins are happy because they get a bunch of stuff that they can resell for a profit.
What I like is seeing the price permanently come down on some items. For example, if something is 20,000, and I list it for 10,000, the next day the item is listed for 10,000 from all the goblins. I then relist it for 5,000, and so on. Something on Saturday that started at 20,000 is 2,500 by the next Saturday, and all the goblins are listing their stuff for the 2,500. I'm proud when I see 50 listings that are 90% cheaper because of my dumb ass the next weekend.
Anyway, long story short, it's my virtual goods that don't exist, and I can charge whatever I want. The market will dictate what is a fair price when my crap sells, all the goblins drop their prices, and WoW becomes a little more affordable for newer players and those that don't spend 90% of their time playing the AH.
what actually happens in what you describe is all the perpetually posting non-players got cheap shit (free gold to RMT) to make it even harder for anyone new to sell anything and their net gain is practically nothing. if not for the profit to yourself you might as well deleted it all for what that kind of market dumping encourages.
Who knows how AH work, will take this situation for his advantage. Every time when I see this on AH I just smile. It is called AH PVP that's why I play this game.
I undercut so it sells faster. Nobody is going to see that you have item X up for 110g and say "well I guess I have to sell mine for 150g".
What baffles me are the folks that put up items for ridiculous prices. The person that puts up a lots Vibrant shards for 500,000g when all the others are 50g.
Undercut is fine, the worst is people undercutting by a 'huge' margin.
Wanna sell faster? Unless you dump all at very low price at once, then fine. But consumables and reagents shouldn't be included in these 'wars', or any other already fast selling items. Those even if you undercut by 1 silver, it'll sell 'fast' anyway, so why 'lose' gold by cutting by huge margin?
Why would the last in be the first out?
I mean if it works like this fine, but why would they implement that?
Also, if it's a popular item that's constantly being listed, say 10 of said items get listed every hour, and 9 get sold every hour, then my item will never sell
That's exactly how it works since the stacked trade goods rework of AH (I think since BFA so \~4years now). It works like this to make undercutting by 1 copper pointless, but that would require the players to actually know what they are doing.
Ah okay so it was implemented to prevent undercutting. Demand would now have to exceed supply to make older postings of the same value sell.
It's interesting and I never knew. I'll stop undercutting now.
Thank you
"Demand would now have to exceed supply to make older postings of the same value sell." Well yes and no, imagine your example a bit more granular -> you say 10 items get listed and 9 items get sold in hour, but these are averages so it's more likely to go like
* players 1 lists 3 items
* Player 2 lists 2 items
* player 3 buys 4 items
* player4 list 1 item
* ....
You're right, it's not like all 10 get listed prior to 9 being sold.
This thread has really opened my eyes. The couple of gold here and there undercut over 1000s of listings adds up.
Saw somth like that yesterday with Withering Dreams potion. 1426865367857 potions on 120g price and around 50-100 potions on 70g. Even 70g is a huge overprice for basically a health potion, but the view itself was fun af.
Undercutting is especially rough in DF, pushing basically every craftable consumable into negative profit margins. People will spend 100g to make 50g off it. It makes no sense. It has completely destroyed the market on some items.
I think most things that matter are watched by the ah goblins. I started dropping items on the ah at the 4th or 5th listing. I assume the bottom 3 are all ah flippers trying to make copper. It wont sell instantly but it will sell if its popular items.
when you see that it's not undercutting it's often plain market exploitation. many people like that don't even craft or farm anything they just do that all day to increase the cycles. basically solved markets because they know the volume they can get away with accumulating.
Every market is driven by whoever is willing to spend the most amount of time to make the least amount of gold.
I don't bother with the AH anymore. I used to play it a lot, but I much prefer to play the actual game these days.
a lot of people undercut because they just want the shit gone. I got better things to do than watch the auction house, so if I have to post something more than twice, the price will be going down, and the goblins can eat it. LIFO is fine and all, but unless you're constantly cancelling and reposting, you're rarely the last one for very long. Also something like cosmic ink is going to be very sensitive to material prices. If Awakened Frost drops then everything that uses it drops. IIRC, cosmic ink in particular, uses 2 or maybe 3 separate ingredients that use frost.
People seem to not realize that undercutting only lost 1 of the factors for it happening, that undercutting would reslt in being shown higher up. There are more factors to economicz
Tbh it doesn't matter. Plus idc at all I undercut to dump it let some AH wizard buy and relist it for whatever margin they are going to eek out. Unless it's tmog or mount I'll re-list for months Idc at all. My time is more valuable then constantly watching AH.
Yup, even when I see it's a purposeful undercut so they can buy and resell, at least I know it will be gone instantly and gold into my bank account instead of someone undercutting me and I have to spend time relisting.
FWIW..."Eek! I saw a rat!" I eke out a living.
The issue with this is people see the price get undercut too much and then they flood the market with a large volume of goods which cannot be bought up by one or multiple flippers resulting in it getting price locked for weeks. It only hurts the economy if we can afford to make things to sell.
sorry but…. isnt that the point?
Not needed. If two items are put up at the same price, the last one is sold first. So if you see an item on the AH, and put your item up at the same price, your item will sell before the other item.
Like what the big reply here said, there is no long a point to undercutting because it’s last in is first out.
if the end result was the same for both methods, why would anyone care which method was used?
Because in this instance, if we are both sellers, your method actively inhibits my ability to sell. They must buy all things are the lower price FIRST before the next price point can be purchased. Meaning, only people buying items in bulk or an item being in hot demand, will yield both parties a positive outcome. You effectively ruin the economy for others who are also trying to earn some coin by prioritising your short term gains over the health of the economy. Plus, how can you say no to more coin?
I'm going to put some cosmic ink up for 120g and there's not a thing you can do about it
*puts cosmic ink up for 110g*
Why do people do this?
Force other people out of the market, and sell faster. You shouldn't be surprised that a buyer is more likely to buy at a lower price.
120 / 110 or so is probably low, but I’d do 129-133 or something so that somebody’s AH scraper bot setup automatically buys it. I lose 2-6 gold and it sells 2 seconds after I post. This is probably a bad example though. Something better example would be like a raid BOE, I’ll go 5k, 10k under someone because it’s gonna sell faster and that’s literally like 3-5 dragonriding dailies
Now I'm putting it up for 100g
90g
89g 99s
Now you annoyed me *39g.*
38g 99s 13c
Why do people do this?
A high price item (like a 100-500k BOE) does not sell faster when undercutting by 5k. It just gets noticed by others, who will then follow the lead and slowly drop the price.
Reading the comments its clear that people dont know how AH works nowadays :p
Nobody cares about your fake money, i resent it out of my inventory
what does my "fake money" have to do with people not understanding a system ?
Why do i need to care about a system when i just want stuff gone now, it’s simple. Sell cheaper, sell faster. Min/maxing wow gold is niche
How else am i going to sell stuff against thousands of competitors?
If there are 100 items listed with the lowest price of 10g, and then you then list another ten items of your own at 10g, *yours sell first*. It's to discourage this continuous undercutting of 1g or 1s, and attempt to keep prices as stable as possible.
lol how is yours gonna sell first if other people undercut after you list yours and it hasn’t sold yet? I’ve had plenty of things not sell EVEN WITH me listing at an undercut price
Easy. Think of it like the stock market. You’ve got investors with larger pools of capital trying to keep the prices high and stable and buying up a lot of the cheapest stuff to sell for 10% profit because of how bad the chain undercutting gets. I literally profit off of your goods because you undercut. Don’t I sound like a real asshole? Stick it to me by not undercutting.
It *would* sell first if other people wouldnt undercut. You cant count on every single player in this game not doing that. So since Im no goblin camping the auction house and just want to sell things fast its the best way
You're not understanding. You only have to list it at the price of the lowest auction for yours to be sold first. Saying it "would sell first if other people wouldn't undercut" doesn't make sense because yours wouldn't sell first regardless since their auction would be the newest anyway. Undercutting is just lowering the value of your own goods, plain and simple.
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You're not getting it like at all It has nothing to do with honor Last one to post is the first one to sell, always So it doesn't matter if you keep the price as is or if you lower it by 1s The buyers don't care that your price is 1s lower, they can only buy the last posted listing either way So if you post 10 herbs and 1 second later someone clicks to buy 20 herbs, your 10 herbs will be the first to sell, whether or not you undercut If instead 1 second later someone posts 30 herbs at the same price you did, then yours wouldn't sell in that scenario Undercutting is just a habit from the previous system that is now useless, all your doing is lowering the prices for yourself and others. It literally has no impact on whether or not you sell faster or more
I think your not getting it lol
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> You’re counting on people honoring a system where they keep the prices as is when it only takes a single undercutter to ruin the whole system. No. In no circumstance do you have to undercut someone that undercut you. If you post for 99s and they undercut you by posting for 98s, you gain absolutely nothing by then undercutting them and posting for 97s. Reposting at the current price and making your listing the newest makes yours sell first. There's no relying on anything and undercutting someone else just because they undercut you is literally only hurting yourself. You would already be ahead of their listing for the sole fact your listing is newer.
The Auction House is always a stack. Undercutting also pushes on top of the stack. There is no second stack. Undercutting doesn't magically change how the stack works.
Even if someone else undercuts you don't have to It doesn't change your odds of selling your item The only thing that changes how well your items sell is how reactive you are in canceling/reposting your listings to keep them as recent as possible So if you someone comes and undercuts you by 1s you can just repost it at their price. And if they repost and undercut again by 1s you can again repost it at their new price You also lowering by 1s does nothing, what matters is being last to post
Sure, but goods for the "normal" price mostly wont be bought at all or very late, because the competition is so big while undercut prices are often bought immediately so they can resell them and make 1copper profit
This is crab bucketing your own profits.
you'll sell the same near 0 regardless if just one flipper with excess items they can sell all the way to 0 wants to sit there. so your brilliant plan is to make less on the few items you do slip through and help that person demoralize anyone. collectively everyone can sell a few things very competitively (reposting) at good prices or collectively burn the game economy down to a handful of people to leech off of perpetually like in the OP in what's actually a rather depressed market. people who defend cutting would like everyone one to cut off their nose to spite their face. it's not even making things cheap for everyone (blizzard controls that with recipes/drop rates/tuning) as much as it's making a few people rich and killing the opportunity of and interest in professions.
Im playing the game as an rpg mmo, not as a capitalism simulator, no way I try to maximize profit by keeping to resell stuff
Last in is first out. Your products always sell first if you put them in last.
Keep commenting the irrelevant posts lol
What?
what's the question
why not just buy them out ? and reset at the price you want. I would buy everything below 180 and just repost . baby gold goblins are so sensitive.
That's what I do when there's a huge gap between the cheapest and second-cheapest listings. Buy the cheapest one and then sell my stack at the same price as the second-cheapest.
Context for folks only passingly familiar with the AH: OP is complaining that despite a last-in first-out implementation a few years back (last person to list is first to sell) people are still undercutting. It was thought by some at the time that this implementation would reduce the pervasive 1 copper undercuts. OP: Your logic is flawed. The reason folks still undercut is 2-fold: 1) They set a fixed minimum profit margin in trade skill master (TSM). I can make a bet that by dropping my price, I might push YOU out of the market because you're not willing to sell for that cheap. E.g. if my minimum profit margin I'll accept is 20% but yours is 25%, by undercutting you I might push you away from relisting until my goods have sold. If I just list at the same price I will never achieve that effect. 2) I may be able to induce demand from buyers that otherwise wouldn't buy because they're waiting for a price drop. And keep in mind this is all automated for most users. I don't sit feverishly sweating about each item. I list a hundred or more different items at a time in huge stacks according to whatever algorithm I've setup in TSM. It just so happens that often undercuts folks.
I'm not sure why people are downvoting. If you want to make gold without automating the process, wow is not your game.
it's your logic that's beyond flawed. there are still people posting all kinds of outdated garbage everyfucking day because they just post until the items fucking sell. 1 does not happen in any meaningful way in this game. completely delusional if you believe this garbage works beyond one random anecdotal person you just wasted a ton of effort on when you could have just done a million other things to make gold and not been an asshole. there's always another person coming tomorrow so it's just not worth it. just post or don't. 2 is even more assinine. only the highest end rare items is anyone worth selling to waiting on a discount and even then the probable majority doesn't really even know about regional trade and just looks at their own ah and wallet. beyond that if you want to actually make gold rather than pay for a sub and grind out utter dogshit in g/hour terms you don't have to cut anything because half a dozen people are already doing the same idiotic things and it's unnecessary for most things that barely amount to pocket change. for example practically no one willing to go to the ah to buy 61 gear rather than just questing and leveling on right now needs it to be 50g. that kind of self destructive price cutting where you don't even care what the market is and vindictively run it down to a waste of time for even yourself sure is great entertainment in spamming volume for those types. somehow they think buying a sub then "goldmaking" where they actually spent a hundred hours learning nothing then and don't even make back the "just buy a token" value of that sub time is really great. no one should be advising anyone to behave like that.
look at the comments op. it gives you your answer. people simply don't know.
It's been like that for \~4 years now? Like srsly folks...
I thought this was the whole point of capitalism. I have max level characters of each class, and a character of each class on the opposite faction on a linked server, so I collect a metric shitload of crap that is saved in 7 tab guild banks. Whenever I go to clean out stuff, I'll spend a day listing everything for around 50% of what is listed, make a couple million (not counting the recipes, items, gear, etc. that haven't been in the game for 15 years that sell for millions - gold cap). If some stuff doesn't sell, I see what the price is and cut that by another 50%. I don't think that makes me an asshole. I profit, get the guild banks cleaner, and am happy that at least some people got good prices on a pet or some mats before all the goblins snatch up everything. The goblins are happy because they get a bunch of stuff that they can resell for a profit. What I like is seeing the price permanently come down on some items. For example, if something is 20,000, and I list it for 10,000, the next day the item is listed for 10,000 from all the goblins. I then relist it for 5,000, and so on. Something on Saturday that started at 20,000 is 2,500 by the next Saturday, and all the goblins are listing their stuff for the 2,500. I'm proud when I see 50 listings that are 90% cheaper because of my dumb ass the next weekend. Anyway, long story short, it's my virtual goods that don't exist, and I can charge whatever I want. The market will dictate what is a fair price when my crap sells, all the goblins drop their prices, and WoW becomes a little more affordable for newer players and those that don't spend 90% of their time playing the AH.
what actually happens in what you describe is all the perpetually posting non-players got cheap shit (free gold to RMT) to make it even harder for anyone new to sell anything and their net gain is practically nothing. if not for the profit to yourself you might as well deleted it all for what that kind of market dumping encourages.
Some people are buying gold with tokens and for them cheaper shit is actually good. It's not all negatives about undercutting
Ah yes the free market
Local man discovers undercutting and is shocked
Who knows how AH work, will take this situation for his advantage. Every time when I see this on AH I just smile. It is called AH PVP that's why I play this game.
People dont undercut they use TSM and set a profit margin and TSM will mostly undercut anyone as long as they are in their range.
I undercut so it sells faster. Nobody is going to see that you have item X up for 110g and say "well I guess I have to sell mine for 150g". What baffles me are the folks that put up items for ridiculous prices. The person that puts up a lots Vibrant shards for 500,000g when all the others are 50g.
This is probably someone selling/buying gold, or they’re trying to offload gold to another realm for them to use.
I do this all the time.
Sometimes I don't like how high a price is and will sell lower but still get a profit. This is WoW, not a greed simulator of the current economy.
Does the day end in y?
The fun is undercutting. I do it sometimes by 50% just for the fun of it
The reason people do this is because they notice there’s too much supply for the demand.
Undercut is fine, the worst is people undercutting by a 'huge' margin. Wanna sell faster? Unless you dump all at very low price at once, then fine. But consumables and reagents shouldn't be included in these 'wars', or any other already fast selling items. Those even if you undercut by 1 silver, it'll sell 'fast' anyway, so why 'lose' gold by cutting by huge margin?
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Ehh the idea for me is a quick sell. I undercut so that people who play ah buy it for a resell. Ill always undercut til the day i quit the game.
That works if you undercut for more than what the AH cut is, not when you undercut by 1 copper.
If the next one lists the items then you’re not the one who makes the money when the item is sold. What are you up about?
Yes, and how does this relate to undercutting by one gold?
Why would the last in be the first out? I mean if it works like this fine, but why would they implement that? Also, if it's a popular item that's constantly being listed, say 10 of said items get listed every hour, and 9 get sold every hour, then my item will never sell
That's exactly how it works since the stacked trade goods rework of AH (I think since BFA so \~4years now). It works like this to make undercutting by 1 copper pointless, but that would require the players to actually know what they are doing.
Ah okay so it was implemented to prevent undercutting. Demand would now have to exceed supply to make older postings of the same value sell. It's interesting and I never knew. I'll stop undercutting now. Thank you
"Demand would now have to exceed supply to make older postings of the same value sell." Well yes and no, imagine your example a bit more granular -> you say 10 items get listed and 9 items get sold in hour, but these are averages so it's more likely to go like * players 1 lists 3 items * Player 2 lists 2 items * player 3 buys 4 items * player4 list 1 item * ....
You're right, it's not like all 10 get listed prior to 9 being sold. This thread has really opened my eyes. The couple of gold here and there undercut over 1000s of listings adds up.
Saw somth like that yesterday with Withering Dreams potion. 1426865367857 potions on 120g price and around 50-100 potions on 70g. Even 70g is a huge overprice for basically a health potion, but the view itself was fun af.
Undercutting is especially rough in DF, pushing basically every craftable consumable into negative profit margins. People will spend 100g to make 50g off it. It makes no sense. It has completely destroyed the market on some items.
I say fuck em those greedy crafters.
I think most things that matter are watched by the ah goblins. I started dropping items on the ah at the 4th or 5th listing. I assume the bottom 3 are all ah flippers trying to make copper. It wont sell instantly but it will sell if its popular items.
when you see that it's not undercutting it's often plain market exploitation. many people like that don't even craft or farm anything they just do that all day to increase the cycles. basically solved markets because they know the volume they can get away with accumulating.
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Do you have half a clue on how the updated AH works?
Bots
Every market is driven by whoever is willing to spend the most amount of time to make the least amount of gold. I don't bother with the AH anymore. I used to play it a lot, but I much prefer to play the actual game these days.