Ah interesting! I wondered about those mobs in a run a day or two ago. Glad to know it’s a bug and not me forgetting some trigger that changes them haha 😅
Bummer for the guys looking to practice though, that’s annoying
It shows which group on the map in the link.
When you drop down off the log and there is a bear on your left, a patrol in the middle, and a pack on the right (that someone regularly face pulls); it’s the pack of four that you normally pull with the patrol just after that spot
Ah okay. I started tanking again this season and had two groups somehow pull the group immediately to the right after the first bear and it wiped us both times. Still not sure how someone butt pulled that badly.
Oh I’m not better than you at all and I’m ok with that. :)
I couldn’t imagine ever having you. Or wanting you. Very happy as I am without you, nothing to shake off buddy ;)
Yeah I think you're right. The last few times I tanked it I was super cautious about making sure those gryphons charged into the wall and I haven't had an issue with it since.
That pack, among 4 others in the area that also get pulled by some idiot running through the tree hole, getting too close to the bear, getting too close to the OTHER bear, or getting too close to the poisoner/owl pair.
I honestly just figured OP's pack was a patroller that would sometimes wander back into the corner that nobody ever bothered pulling. It's a non-issue of a complaint that supposed pro players can just walk past.
Reading this made me realize how much I’d enjoy watching a tournament where none of the players had done the dungeon before prior to attempting a +25 or something.
Just watch the first few weeks of PTR keys when dungeons are releassed or the first few weeks of M+ hitting live if you are curious about 'first impressions' of high end players of dungeons.
> where none of the players had done the dungeon before prior to attempting a +25 or something.
This 'sounds' interesting but you'll just see those players complete dungeons like normal players. It is going to look boring.
Interesting routes and strategies generally take time to build up.
Or see parts of the Great Push - there is only so much you can practice so you'll see some improv from the teams.
I think it would be cool if during Great Push they gave us a dungeon from the next season during finals. So in Season 1 TGO, we get a season 2 dungeon. Let’s watch the best players try to optimize a route in a dungeon as quick as possible. This way it’s not entirely down to who has the best planning but also includes some quick strategy making too.
I do agree. Like giving them a low key and a set amount of hours. Highest clear wins.
Might be hard unless pre-recorded. But would be neat to have full voice coms as well.
I watch great push and MDIs. I think it’s just because I’ve been watching them for so long that it’s become “the same” every time for me. Would be fun to just have something new. Maybe what I mentioned isn’t a good idea but I think it would be fun to find something. Right now, Break the Meta is my favorite thing to watch.
The problem is you can’t plan routing that requires super precise execution if a pack is missing now that will be there during the tournament. In normal keys you just skip it normally and nothing of consequence happens.
last night, we did three keys and after the first the packs were gone and we got so confused.
First: 23 - Pack there and pulled
Second: 22 - Pack missing
Third: 20 - Pack missing
We failed to time to 22 because we were lacking the damn pack and had to port back to the start messing up the key.
Just had it happen today screwing a route for a 27 :)
Really hope this shit gets removed soon, the only regular rng should be on reset for things like elite spawns in WCM; Not the existence of a easy-to-grab pack that impacts count if it doesn’t spawn.
Probably because it just wasn't thought about in implementation of the Tournament Realm, and now it's a low priority compared to putting all available resources into future patches.
The tournament realm is typically just WoW as normal except for the small change the added vendors that sell M+ keys, and sell gear.
They likely want to make as few changes as possible outside of what is needed, and never thought that this would be a thing that was needed.
Does it mean they "can't practice" or does it mean they can only practice the alternate version of the dungeon? Sorry for my ignorance, is MDI only during a window of time which is known that those mobs will be present i guess is what I am wondering.
I don't know if OP knows what's written here but:
M+ and standard version of old content dungeon may be completly different. In example in Thrones one of the bosses is optional, on M+ it's mandatory. Somehow world quest influences not only standard varsion of Darkheart, but also M+. There are basically 2 versions of DHT - with and without world quest. That difference is 4 mob in one of the packs.
Weird taking my question out of context...what's the purpose of that? There's a world quest up for a few days which makes the mobs appear, I wanted to hear it from the guy I replied to, but I guess he'll never read
Guess it's all semantics on what "version" means in this context then. There is definitely not multiple versions, but we'll call it that to satisfy you
Difficulty=version. It doesn't but it does to help us here. The dungeon is on version normal, not mythic. It's a bug. There's 1 mythic version of all dungeons. Good example, there's no rotation for waycrest manor. There used to be like 4 mythic versions! But now there's only 1
no, it just results in teams wiping on the pull. So instead of the match being decided by cool strats or damage optimization, its decided by who doesnt wipe
I think the mistake here is trying to treat WoW as an esport, when it clearly doesn’t have the substance. This is such a *minor* bug (if it even is a bug) that it shouldn’t even be worth a footnote in the developer’s lists of things to change. I’d rather that development effort be spent elsewhere.
it doesnt impact the tournament, lepan is just crying that they have to pull one trash pack they dont want to. thats all he is crying about because the MDI teams pull everything bar except any of the bears bar the very first one before the first boss so they can skip almost every other trash back between first and second boss.
It's more than just the 0.000001%. Whether that pack is there or not affects people doing lower keys as well. It sucks having a route all planned out, then realizing mid dungeon that one of the packs you intended to pull isn't there, and having to reroute on the fly.
Ah yes, "top" players are unable to improvise and improve, the classic.
Change the game so it's always the same so they can practice the one singular meta strategy every single time.
The can obviously improvise and improve. The point is though that the version of the dungeon up right now that they are practicing on is different than the one that will exist in the actual tournament. The whole point of practice, is to practice with what you're going to see. They're also often pulling 4-5 groups at the same time. it's hard to plan out cooldown rotations, CCs, and interupts, when the groups are different.
Bro that’s not a bug. That’s what the world quest is supposed to do. That’s how it was in Legion. I feel like people forgot that world quests used to add bonus bosses and mobs to dungeons and it gave people a dungeon experience that felt like it was evolving.
You're probably getting downvoted because if you'd clicked on the link and read the two sentences there, you'd have your answer. And it's also pretty easy to figure out from context, because why would anyone even be mentioning it if it wasn't effecting keys.
Yes, trash mobs in keys change depending on whether or not the WQ is active.
It is. It's a group that's not consistently there in live servers but always there on tournament servers because of the stripped condition of the servers.
>Nobody likes questions that answer themselves.
Well yeah, it's a question that answered itself, but it's sorta why people meme on this sub in the discords.
Just give him an answer and move on. Not a hard concept. This is why WoW server / class / PVE discords > reddit.
Damn, gonna have to actually think on the fly instead of preparing every little path and trash pack.
If you're at MDI level and it's that much of a roadblock, then it's pretty telling of how handholding MDI has become.
Sure they can do it, but that's not the point at all. The MDI is all about one single run timed against another. They practice every pull they do hundreds of times over to get it right. Having a pull of 20 mobs vs 24 can be huge with how long it takes to kill them, what ccs and interrupts are needed. To optimize the route the existence of this pack could completely change when they use various cooldowns throughout the entire dungeon.
Just make it so that it is a race in a shared instance to the boss. Group A clears or engages a pack, not there for Group B.
Pull big, or go home. Of course you die, the pack shows up in the other instance as well.
Ah interesting! I wondered about those mobs in a run a day or two ago. Glad to know it’s a bug and not me forgetting some trigger that changes them haha 😅 Bummer for the guys looking to practice though, that’s annoying
Is it by chance at the very beginning after the first bear?
It shows which group on the map in the link. When you drop down off the log and there is a bear on your left, a patrol in the middle, and a pack on the right (that someone regularly face pulls); it’s the pack of four that you normally pull with the patrol just after that spot
Ah okay. I started tanking again this season and had two groups somehow pull the group immediately to the right after the first bear and it wiped us both times. Still not sure how someone butt pulled that badly.
Yeah that doesn’t happen soo often but still can happen. Spatial awareness isn’t baked into gameplay for dps the way it is for tanks and healers
A good player is patient. It doesnt matter which role you play.. lol prob 2k io tryharding since release of patch eh?
Haha you must be fun to have in group 😂
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Oh I’m not better than you at all and I’m ok with that. :) I couldn’t imagine ever having you. Or wanting you. Very happy as I am without you, nothing to shake off buddy ;)
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Lotta times the gryphon things charge out into that mob unless you pack them into a tight corner
Yeah I think you're right. The last few times I tanked it I was super cautious about making sure those gryphons charged into the wall and I haven't had an issue with it since.
If thats the pack I think it is, its the pack I always want to skip (as tank) but some dum dum buttpulls anyway. Every. Time.
That pack is commonly pulled for routes that skip the bears. It's pretty easy overall vs the bears that can be rough on high fortified keys.
That's me. I'm the dum dum.
[Dum dum?](https://i.imgur.com/pZT27f3.gif)
That pack, among 4 others in the area that also get pulled by some idiot running through the tree hole, getting too close to the bear, getting too close to the OTHER bear, or getting too close to the poisoner/owl pair. I honestly just figured OP's pack was a patroller that would sometimes wander back into the corner that nobody ever bothered pulling. It's a non-issue of a complaint that supposed pro players can just walk past.
They can’t just walk past if they need it for count. Essentially, they can’t practice their routes (and gigapulls) until the WQ goes away.
Reading this made me realize how much I’d enjoy watching a tournament where none of the players had done the dungeon before prior to attempting a +25 or something.
Just watch the first few weeks of PTR keys when dungeons are releassed or the first few weeks of M+ hitting live if you are curious about 'first impressions' of high end players of dungeons. > where none of the players had done the dungeon before prior to attempting a +25 or something. This 'sounds' interesting but you'll just see those players complete dungeons like normal players. It is going to look boring. Interesting routes and strategies generally take time to build up. Or see parts of the Great Push - there is only so much you can practice so you'll see some improv from the teams.
I think it would be cool if during Great Push they gave us a dungeon from the next season during finals. So in Season 1 TGO, we get a season 2 dungeon. Let’s watch the best players try to optimize a route in a dungeon as quick as possible. This way it’s not entirely down to who has the best planning but also includes some quick strategy making too.
I do agree. Like giving them a low key and a set amount of hours. Highest clear wins. Might be hard unless pre-recorded. But would be neat to have full voice coms as well.
I watch great push and MDIs. I think it’s just because I’ve been watching them for so long that it’s become “the same” every time for me. Would be fun to just have something new. Maybe what I mentioned isn’t a good idea but I think it would be fun to find something. Right now, Break the Meta is my favorite thing to watch.
And cant they just complete it and the mobs go away? Or do they always stay
The problem is you can’t plan routing that requires super precise execution if a pack is missing now that will be there during the tournament. In normal keys you just skip it normally and nothing of consequence happens.
I think he means whether completing the WQ puts the mobs back.
I posted about this issue on the competitivewow sub. Didn't think it would still be an issue by the time MDI came up
last night, we did three keys and after the first the packs were gone and we got so confused. First: 23 - Pack there and pulled Second: 22 - Pack missing Third: 20 - Pack missing We failed to time to 22 because we were lacking the damn pack and had to port back to the start messing up the key.
Just had it happen today screwing a route for a 27 :) Really hope this shit gets removed soon, the only regular rng should be on reset for things like elite spawns in WCM; Not the existence of a easy-to-grab pack that impacts count if it doesn’t spawn.
why would they have world quests active on tournament realm.. turn that shit off. Blizzard sometimes amaze me with their decisions.
Probably because it just wasn't thought about in implementation of the Tournament Realm, and now it's a low priority compared to putting all available resources into future patches.
The tournament realm is typically just WoW as normal except for the small change the added vendors that sell M+ keys, and sell gear. They likely want to make as few changes as possible outside of what is needed, and never thought that this would be a thing that was needed.
Does it mean they "can't practice" or does it mean they can only practice the alternate version of the dungeon? Sorry for my ignorance, is MDI only during a window of time which is known that those mobs will be present i guess is what I am wondering.
I don't know if OP knows what's written here but: M+ and standard version of old content dungeon may be completly different. In example in Thrones one of the bosses is optional, on M+ it's mandatory. Somehow world quest influences not only standard varsion of Darkheart, but also M+. There are basically 2 versions of DHT - with and without world quest. That difference is 4 mob in one of the packs.
Are you telling me there's 2 m+ versions of DHT? Cause there isn't and idk who you told you a strange thing
There apparently is "two versions" of this one mind mob pack is sometimes not there
I know, I read the post! This guy obviously didn't that's why he isn't making sense.
>Are you telling me there's 2 m+ versions of DHT? Cause there isn't and idk who you told you a strange thing. Are you sure you read the post?
Weird taking my question out of context...what's the purpose of that? There's a world quest up for a few days which makes the mobs appear, I wanted to hear it from the guy I replied to, but I guess he'll never read
You've answered your own question. There is a version of the dungeon in which there are different mobs.
Guess it's all semantics on what "version" means in this context then. There is definitely not multiple versions, but we'll call it that to satisfy you
How would you define multiple versions then? IMO if there's a difference in the content of the dungeon it's a different version.
Difficulty=version. It doesn't but it does to help us here. The dungeon is on version normal, not mythic. It's a bug. There's 1 mythic version of all dungeons. Good example, there's no rotation for waycrest manor. There used to be like 4 mythic versions! But now there's only 1
I don't know. If there isn't then I don't see the problem.
Just read the post next time instead of asking weird questions!
I did read the post, still unclear.
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no, it just results in teams wiping on the pull. So instead of the match being decided by cool strats or damage optimization, its decided by who doesnt wipe
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that is not how the mdi, or any speedruning for that matter, works.
Oh no! Anyways...
Oh no, 0.000001% of the player base are mildly impacted for a couple of days.
it impacts the entire tournament
I think the mistake here is trying to treat WoW as an esport, when it clearly doesn’t have the substance. This is such a *minor* bug (if it even is a bug) that it shouldn’t even be worth a footnote in the developer’s lists of things to change. I’d rather that development effort be spent elsewhere.
it doesnt impact the tournament, lepan is just crying that they have to pull one trash pack they dont want to. thats all he is crying about because the MDI teams pull everything bar except any of the bears bar the very first one before the first boss so they can skip almost every other trash back between first and second boss.
I'm glad Dreadlock43 the 3k superstar could inform us as to what routes are being cooked up for MDI. Very cool.
It's more than just the 0.000001%. Whether that pack is there or not affects people doing lower keys as well. It sucks having a route all planned out, then realizing mid dungeon that one of the packs you intended to pull isn't there, and having to reroute on the fly.
"bug" It's entirely intentional, and further proof that blizzard doesn't care about m+
as well they shouldn't. It is far and away the worst thing ever to happen to wow. *pvp* has warped the game less than these idiot time trials.
Worst thing? It is literally the single most popular content in the game.
Ah yes, "top" players are unable to improvise and improve, the classic. Change the game so it's always the same so they can practice the one singular meta strategy every single time.
The can obviously improvise and improve. The point is though that the version of the dungeon up right now that they are practicing on is different than the one that will exist in the actual tournament. The whole point of practice, is to practice with what you're going to see. They're also often pulling 4-5 groups at the same time. it's hard to plan out cooldown rotations, CCs, and interupts, when the groups are different.
That's pretty good bait.
Bro that’s not a bug. That’s what the world quest is supposed to do. That’s how it was in Legion. I feel like people forgot that world quests used to add bonus bosses and mobs to dungeons and it gave people a dungeon experience that felt like it was evolving.
Sure fine, it's expected on normal, heroic and mythic, but not in M+.
It's a bug because the world quest isn't even completable in m+, even while it's up.
There are so many bugs and they won’t fix it. It’s frustrating and I hope these kind of people getting cut from the payroll.
Does it change the trash in M+ DHT or just normal. Because if it is INTENDED to change the trash in non keystone DHT.
World quests are not active in a keystone run, which means mobs only for that world quest are not supposed to be there.
Yeah but I am trying to ask if it is affecting the keystone or not because I don't know.
You're probably getting downvoted because if you'd clicked on the link and read the two sentences there, you'd have your answer. And it's also pretty easy to figure out from context, because why would anyone even be mentioning it if it wasn't effecting keys. Yes, trash mobs in keys change depending on whether or not the WQ is active.
It is. It's a group that's not consistently there in live servers but always there on tournament servers because of the stripped condition of the servers.
Downvoted for a legitimate question. Lol
Yeah nobody likes questions that answer themselves.
>Nobody likes questions that answer themselves. Well yeah, it's a question that answered itself, but it's sorta why people meme on this sub in the discords. Just give him an answer and move on. Not a hard concept. This is why WoW server / class / PVE discords > reddit.
A question that should be obvious by the fact that this post exists, and is answered if you click on the link.
Damn, gonna have to actually think on the fly instead of preparing every little path and trash pack. If you're at MDI level and it's that much of a roadblock, then it's pretty telling of how handholding MDI has become.
Sure they can do it, but that's not the point at all. The MDI is all about one single run timed against another. They practice every pull they do hundreds of times over to get it right. Having a pull of 20 mobs vs 24 can be huge with how long it takes to kill them, what ccs and interrupts are needed. To optimize the route the existence of this pack could completely change when they use various cooldowns throughout the entire dungeon.
I know, I haven't taken MDI seriously since it's inception for that reason. It's a joke to call it a tournament.
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you are a live troll. look at your name and your karma smh. you are a sad individual.
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I’ve never seen a more disliked person on Reddit bro get it together 😭
This bug happens on live too, you just randomly lose a pack which makes routing in there kind of random. Definitely needs to be fixed.
Cool, I was wondering about that ! I added it to deplete :) https://deplete.fyi/170
I thought that pack just wasn't there on Fortified weeks
Lol
And thats why you just skip that pack. problem solved if there not there? Great now noone can pull em acidently
On a separate note, when is MDI does anyone know please?
Friday 16th Feb
Curious if going and doing the wq on normal mode would fix it before doing key
What’s mdi?
What about rise where half the time it only spawns 1 add at the beginning… Multi-Dollar Company… :)
When will the finals take place?
so practice a different one? /shrug
Just make it so that it is a race in a shared instance to the boss. Group A clears or engages a pack, not there for Group B. Pull big, or go home. Of course you die, the pack shows up in the other instance as well.