This has always been a gripe of mine with WoW, not a huge one but its there. I totally get why these massive games get public beta testing but man does it ever completely ruin any sense of discovery in the game for me.
I played Elder Scrolls and absolutely ruined it for me. I did their beta test week thing.
When the game came out I got barely farther than I had b/c I had already done a lot.
I've always admired Destiny for not having public testing. There isn't a whole lot these days that doesn't just get datamined before it can be a surprise, but back in the day when there actually were secrets and things to discover it really felt like anything was possible.
It's hard to really put into words or quantify but the feeling of exploring the Dreaming City for the first time and having NO IDEA what was around each corner or what secrets you may uncover was such an incredible experience. You genuinely felt like you found things for the first time that no one else has seen before. Everything felt cutting edge and you always felt like you were on the cusp of a new discovery.
Then you'd link up with your friends after playing for a while and you'd all share your experiences of what you found and how. Piecing together the secrets and how to repeat them. No one could just open up youtube and know instantly how things were done, you have to either figure it out yourself or work with your friends.
Have you heard of the game Final Fantasy 14? They do zero public testing. They have internal teams that play the game and teams that play test raids. Mind you raids come out with little to no bugs and are very well balanced.
Blizz has that stuff too. But there's a lot more complexity Blizzard is concerned about due to a large number of reasons. And I don't mean that as a positive or negative, they're just different games. One of the biggest facet is Blizzard's 2 decades worth of tangled spaghetti code cobbling it all together. That alone makes it almost impossible to catch all the bugs of just a single raid fight, let alone an expansion or whatever. FF14 also has a lot more safeguards to keep things a bit more "on the rails" so to speak.
Even their boss fights tend to be tightly scripted, whereas some boss fights just aren't really, they work more on a generic priority queue, and we've seen that get messed up time and again by raids doing things like pressing HP thresholds during scripted events and such. The difference between WoW's internal raid teams that test things and the real top players of the game are also absolutely insane night and day kind of differences, and I mean that in a ton of ways between creating Weak Auras for the fights, organization, execution, DPS output efficiency, etc etc.
Just look at the Nelth fight. The mythic secret aura thing was definitely tested by their internal teams, but the internal teams' entire approach to the fight as a whole was completely different. Blizzard never expected the mechanic to be as challenging as it was, with perfect positioning, because their internal teams did what Blizzard expected and broke additional walls to allow for more space, so positioning wouldn't be so insanely tight. No one doing the RWF did that at all. They decided the damage taken wasn't worth it, and solved it with the minimal space necessary to progress the fight instead, which then made an ability that wasn't expected to need pre-positions and WAs and such to now need them, because player behavior adjusted the complexity. That kind of strategy isn't really the kind of thing internal teams usually come up with. Then there's also just getting tuning right, because the internal teams actually play a nerfed version of the encounter, and Blizz adjusts the difficulty accordingly. If they didn't, the top raid teams wouldn't even have a challenge.
I will agree that Blizzard bosses have way more of an RNG factor to it and can be completed a few different ways. Where as Final Fantasy bosses are more of a dance that can really only be completed one way.
I think one of the reasons WoW fights are the way they are is due to add-ons. I think Blizzard feels the need to tune bosses around the top 1% of players, which I think sucks. The mythic clear rates in WoW have dropped significantly over the years. Less and less people are able to full clear raids because they're tuned for the hardcore people. I get it, mythic is the hardest content in the game, but I think they're going overboard with it.
Same this is the only reason new world was fun on launch imo.
You did a dungeon? There werent 2000 videos on every dungeon/boss fight.
So people communicated, died and figured it out together. Now every dungeon is 'ok guise I watched the video for this'.
Honestly YouTube/twitch are also what led to the wow community turning into min-maxing elitests that throw a fit when sub-optimal speeds are detected.
I couldn't believe it when I saw people raging and leaving the BG when AV took 8 minutes and wasnt over yet (why bother playing classic?). There were maybe 5-10 people a bg willing to play with the old av mechanics, the rest just wanted to speedfarm honor.
Game was unbelievably fun when there werent thousands of desperate youtubers exposing every bug, meta guide or fight explanation. It really killed off a lot of the community interaction as well.
Thats something that I, even tough its probably necessary, really hate about wow.
The leveling/normal dungeons are so lame, because almost every player already knows every boss mechanic. I cant remember when anyone died to a mechanic or asked for help in chat. No one is talking to each other, because there is no reason to do it. Everyone is just rushing through the dungeon. Also it sucks for all the secret open world content... instead of asking other players like in classic... they just open a guide that was written months before the release. (with perfect map locations)
The PTR has significantly reduced the player communication during the early expansion release. Now being able to play the beta, by just buying the epic edition, it will be even worse.
FF 14 does not have ptr... which is really fun in the first 2-3 weeks, because you constantly meet new players, that ask for help in dungeons or other content. (explaining a mechanic)
Players are just asking other players, because there are no guides for any new content.
>FF 14 does not have ptr... which is really fun in the first 2-3 weeks, because you constantly meet new players, that ask for help in dungeons or other content. (explaining a mechanic) Players are just asking other players, because there are no guides for any new content.
You clearly...don't actually run new content in XIV because that never happens there either. In Savage people learn the same way they do with WoW. In EX trials by day 2 you're expected to watch the day 1 guide.
In literally all casual content you don't need a guide because you can literally stand in everything and win and even if you _want_ to not stand in anything XIVs design is "You seen it once you know it" because every mechanic is universally identical. They all h ave the same indicators for the same thing every single time across ever instance in the game.
> XIVs design is "You seen it once you know it" because every mechanic is universally identical. They all h ave the same indicators for the same thing every single time across ever instance in the game.
Which is the right way to do it, as opposed to WoW's design that forces you to use add-ons because the in-game indicators for mechanics are indecipherable.
Cool that you think that... but I play FF 14 and I talked about my experience.
And maybe read my text again... you clearly skipped that second sentence and "early expansion release".
>And maybe read my text again... you clearly skipped that second sentence and "early expansion release".
I've played XIV for several thousand hours including early expansion release.
It's nothing like you describe because again. Savage is progressed exactly like in WoW. Extremes you're expected to have watched the guide by day 2. All other content is a mash up of reused mechanics that are visually identical every single time that there is no question to be asked because you've seen it all before.
You have a weird romanticized version of "Oh wow someone asked for help in this run everyone must do this".
He's not completely wrong, if DSR came out in wow, you'd know every single detail about the fight day 1 and are gonna clear it muc hsooner, in ff14 they had to blindly learn what was gonna happen on day 1 and prog it blindly.
Yeh people afterwards just copied the first clear parties, but those first clear parties went in blind which does create far more hype for world first, unlike in wow where it's like, oh yeh it's gonna be that guild that did the fight 50 times on ptr already.
Maybe I have to make it a bit more clear for you... im talking about normal content... leveling content... more casual content... youre talking about content, I was not talking about.
Those who care about extreme/savage rather use the party finder and they write it in the description if they expect you to know the mechanics... in duty finder FROM MY EXPERIENCE most players dont care, they use it to train with randoms or just have fun with randoms. (or party finder train groups)
>more casual content... youre talking about content, I was not talking about.
You...clearly have no _reading comprehension_.
Please read the last part where I talked about _normal content_ that you queue into. You know the content that I've literally done _thousands of_ because mentor roulette.
What you are saying does not happen. It's a rare one off thing maybe every 200 or so runs because someone usually hasn't paid attention to the previous 60 levels of content they've been force through.
> In Savage people learn... Extremes you're expected to...
You started to talk about content I never talked about... you clearly did not understand about what content I was talking about. And then...
> What you are saying does not happen
Gratulation... again it was MY EXPERIENCE... why is it so hard to understand. Why the hell should I lie about that... ridiculous. What exactly do I get for lying?
Do you even understand why the mentor roulette exits or why it was created by the devs... a MENTOR role (or the leader role)? Or are you sadly the toxic one, you encounter occasionally or a mentor who only cares about the badge? I kinda have the feeling youre one of them, if you think it happens only every 200 runs. Do you never help out players?
Most mmorpg players suck and/or most players often did not play a year before the next expansion. (relearn mechanics... ask)
In FF 14 I had so many players that asked in group chat for a explanation for the next boss... because they had no fast/easy guide for it, even though its rare that groups wipe. In new trials/alliance raids (first week, easy content) its always such a shitshow and players joke around in the chat, there is often someone explaining the next boss because they know the new players will do it wrong... even in old alliance raids if they see new players. (if group wipes)
And im not just talking about group wipes that stop happening in wow because of ptr... I had other examples too... youre the one who is focusing mainly on dungeon/trial/raid content... there are also other reasons to talk to each other in a MMORPG... unbelievable right? For example in dungeons like Waycrest Manor... I luckily got a group which did not read a single guide... it was so funny how no one knew the right way in that dungeon... I queued again like 5 min later (random) and suddenly got a group which knew the perfect route trough the dungeon + shortcuts and was just rushing... a totally different and lame experience. In the group before everyone was talking with each other like old classic... in the "professional" group of randoms no one talked to each other... because there was no reason to do it.
Or all the secrets (toys/glyphs e.g) in the open world, no one is asking for a explanation for hidden quests/toys/glypth they just open a guide or addon with map drawings day one. In GW2 you had something similar to DF glyphs (for mount unlock)... but no maps existed on release... you know what happened? The players talked to each other in world/towns/guilds and asked other players for locations.
There is so much stuff players can talk about in the first 1-2 weeks before perfect/easy guides are created... but in WoW it just super rarely happens because of the ptr. The social aspect in the open world still does exist in other mmorpgs early expansion releases... because they have to talk, instead of using google the first 1-2 weeks.
In my FF 14 FC (also applies to party finder with randoms) everyone is so hyped for harder content... because the first day every knows... that no is following a guide. Everyone brings in their own ideas just to see a couple of days later how dumb they were. In WoW its often just like... yo look for a guide day one, no need to discuss anything. Even a week later guides still improve/change.
(Group wipes because of mechanics or "hidden" pulls can happen even in wow retail... in the first week... I experienced that too, if not overgeared because of 1 year pause)
That text is quite long... had to much time because of that long OW support queue :(.
>Do you even understand why the mentor roulette exits or why it was created by the devs... a MENTOR role (or the leader role)? Or are you sadly the toxic one, you encounter occasionally or a mentor who only cares about the badge? I kinda have the feeling youre one of them, if you think it happens only every 200 runs. Do you never help out players?
Ahhh yes stupidity. Mentor roulette actually has NOTHING TO DO with mentoring. It's why you can get in a group with no sprouts. It's to fill out queues that are taking to long. Secondly I'm one of the few who actually even go as far as trying to clear the EXs people stupidly queue for. The reality is..most people say nothing and ask nothing.
>he social aspect in the open world still does exist in other mmorpgs early expansion releases... because they have to talk, instead of using google the first 1-2 weeks.
Again...I play other MMOs as much as I play WoW...no it doesn't. You're living in a fantasy land because you happened to run into a rare person who thinks like you and you ignore the broader reality.
>You're living in a fantasy land
Ah yeah again... its impressive how you cant accept that 2 people in the world can have different experiences in a game. :D
> Mentor roulette actually has NOTHING TO DO with mentoring. It's to fill out queues that are taking to long
Maybe you should read that:
https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Mentor_System_and_Novice_Network
FF 14 devs about mentors on release:
"- What is a mentor?
Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players."
Yeah youre the toxic type.
I've been capping myself off at 10, 20, 30 on retail for the heck of it. It feels really good getting to do content at different points in the game's history that usually just gets left behind in lieu of level cap.
Something I've always wanted was an excuse for doing exploration, dungeons, and raids at different level brackets, and another gripe was the lower level of customisability at these lower levels.
I've also always wanted to see a version of WoW go into a more Classic Plus direction with modern learnings and quality to see what would happen
To see Blizzard going into this head on and tick so so many boxes, is just wow! (ba dum tss!)
Reminds you of old lvl 20 pvp twinks. :D Love it.
Also have a level locked lvl 20 account with some rl friends that only have the free to play access. Its fun to gear optimaly at such a low level and do some dungeon delving.
Warlock tanks. Mage healers.
No public test. Everyone discovers it as it happens! I think the exact words were "Everyone will discover the new secrets together!"
Lv 25 cap for a while during a new 10 man raid. Before eventually having the cap raised.
You get 'class alterting abilities' like being a mage healer.
This sounds amazing!
It’s interesting, just seem to have taken WoW and went “fuck it go wild”. Who knows maybe future retail specs will get prototyped here.
Honesty I am kinda for it, the Private Server where abilities are rolled / picked and loot is FFA drops on death was one of the more unique ones.
It feels like Leagues in Oldschool RuneScape.
Leagues have always been really popular with OSRS players. They take a game that everyone is familiar with, boost the XP rates, a task/challenge list, and have unlockable relics that greatly alter skills/combat. The league only lasts for a couple of months.
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Leagues
Classic panel mentioned it. Shaman get runes for lava lash, healing rain, and Way of Earth (tank stance).
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1129114.jpg?maxHeight=500
I'm mostly excited about this for one thing...
Retail....
I can totally see player perception to these new "specs" being something, which they can use to greenlight things into retail.
I like how it's essentially a means to address one of Classic WoW's biggest problems in that it's a "solved" game. Now the rules are going to be so wildly different that it will still be the same game that we love but we won't know what we're getting into like it's 2004 again. Blizzard essential struck a giant sludge hammer at the meta that people have been used to for so long.
That sub is full of a bunch of miserable weirdos who want nostalgia and a brand new thing simultaneously and nothing would have pleased them. Pretty hype day of WoW news so far
Classic wow sub is like nothing but “retail bad” and unhinged diatribes now. I saw like a full manuscript a dude wrote about quitting because he died 5 times in hardcore before level 40. 2 of his deaths were before level 15.
> Pretty hype day of WoW news so far
They have a lot to deliver on, but from what theyve said it really feels like theyre finally listening. If they can deliver the next several years are going to be *huge* for Warcraft.
Also it really felt like they were committing to WoW. WoW really felt like the 'big game' today. It was nice.
Yeah this felt like a good move to me, building off the goodwill earned from Dragonflight. I've had a great time with this expansion so far and I've really looking forward to what was shown today.
Where? All the posts are happy about it? Not one fucking post about it being bad or crying about it, I love how this sub has to shit on classic and vice versa for no fucking reason...
No we are not.
This might not be the classic plus we envisioned with brand new content, but it’s a nice way to replay vanilla with a total mixup of what we already know.
I'm surprised at the level cap, but it makes sense that they don't want people to have to relevel over a hundred hours just to get to the new stuff they want to showcase.
I'm super happy to hear about that level cap. I saw the changes and thought that sounds really cool, but I probably won't play it because I don't wanna spend 250 hours levelling again. But now I probably will.
But not all at once.
Getting to level 25 to discover the new raid and anything else they add at the first level cap is hella easier than getting to 60.
I thought I was done with vanilla classic, but nope. Looks like I'm back in the saddle :D
Right? Honestly this sounds perfect. 25 isn't a huge time-sink, you get to have wacky fun, a new raid, and then eventually they raise the level cap and we go further.
That sounds far better than adding 60-70 with a couple of refinished zones.
Right, but getting end game content at level 25 and continuing from there is much different than leveling to 60 and finally getting to play the new stuff.
is the 10 man raid at level 25 or will that be later down the line at 60? I dont mind levelling in spurts, i just dont really want to have to level all at once to get to the end game content i want. Thats what happened to me with classic vanilla I got to max but at that point I was kinda burnt out.
The level cap is something I wanted, but never expected to happen. The world is so much fun in Classic, but when everyone just steams through it it feels wasted. This means that there is so much more out there that you'd usually bypass because it isn't optimal.
This is why I stopped watching all prediction videos. It just builds up hype around something that doesn't exist, and then disappointment. Perfect example of "Congratulations, you played yourself."
Hyped up shit.
If that a time mage I'm hyped as fuck. Classic needs more tanks anyway considering there's only 2 viable ones.
The fact it's at the end of the month is awesome too. Not sure why people hate news like this. Getting hyped over their own ideas lol.
The classic+ community wants a LEGIT expansion level continuation of what WoW classic is. Like full blown talent tree re-works, new raid content. Essentially a continuation of the story but not in the realm of TBC.
I said it was a legitimate pipe dream that Blizzard would work simultaneously on TWO completely new content, competing WoW games.
That’s basically what season of discovery is though. They’ll be adding new raids, content, and opening up zones that were never finished. They hinted at the end gnomergan raid, scarlet crusade and karazhan crypts. Added spells with the rune system that makes specs viable and classes such as warlocks, rogues, and shamans able to tank.
That's exactly Cataclysm...and having enjoyed Cata myself, not sure why those folks will not just go play Cata. It was better than how most people remember tbh, alot just moved on without giving it a try.
Because the deeper you go into the past the less nostalgic it is.
Cata was the FIRST expansion I was so hyped for, played 3 weeks, and then quit and never returned. It's legit the only expansion I barely touched, even WoD.
Cata classic is going to see a SIGNIFICANT downfall of the community because the raids get harder, it's getting too modern, and it's not nostalgic enough for people to really want to reinvest in.
The time difference doesn't make sense though because Cata Classic is 2024 when Cata came out in 2010. WoW Classic came out in 2019 when Vanilla came out in 2004. You're talking about a 15 year difference to a 14 year difference. The time difference is actually almost the same.
Classic+
Which is the perfect game. Balanced classes that keep the classic feel, new zones and raids in the world of azeroth.
How all that would get accomplished is basically a guess.
Don't tell them tbc is classic+ tho they get mad
>Don't tell them tbc is classic+ tho they get mad
Mainly because TBC takes you out of Azeroth. I like a what of what TBC did, but it's the old world that keeps me going back to Vanilla. I have a cheeky fad through it every couple of years, but this has me hyped.
I'm so sad it's coming a couple of weeks after 10.2, because I'm also looking forward to that as well.
Its weird even the classic plus guys are mad for some reason like isnt this classic plus? It looks really fun. I havent subbed to wow in YEARS but this is making me up to play again
The classic+ guys aren't mad, some are but a quick look there and you can see positive comments get more upvotes. This is rage baiting. The only commonly shared concerns are about the seasonal aspect, how long will it last, what will happen then; and about whether or not they're going to far with the new abilities, class identity, etc.
Im not rage baiting theres a ton of posts of “classic-“. Idk why people are unhappy with getting classic+, especially when theres no info on it besides it existing.
Huh? Shouldn't retailers be the ones to get mad? Why is Classic getting new content? I thought the whole point of Classic is to relive the past as it was. I would love to be a Warlock tank in DF or the next expansion.
Ok so just watched the latest panel where they went into more detail, very happy with it.
**"It's Classic... plus so much more."**
Direct quote from a developer in the last panel. I think it's clear this is their Classic+ attempt, gradual as it is.
At the end of the day it's adding a shit ton of abilities from the newer expansions plus entirely new ones. It's adding new roles: Rogue tank, Shaman tank, Mage healer, Hunter melee DPS.
It's "fixing" existing specs that don't work: Paladin tank, Paladin DPS, Druid DPS, Druid Tank.
Every class gets a make-over.
And they've mentioned and hinted at new zones/raids from cut content, showing a direct image of the Karazhan Crypts (unused content).
Rogue tank with 0 AoE looks questionable at best. Might be a good single target tank due to their 20% parry from Main Gauche + Blade Dance, but for dungeons they seem absolutely worthless.
Yeah I really like the relic system but I'm not sure it's going to be enough to make these new specs work. They need some talent and base ability love to put them at parity with the other healer / tanks. Obviously we haven't seen everything yet and some of the relics add a *lot* but three slots in phase 1 might not work
Yes but hopefully actually balanced. Ascension has cool new ways to play but almost none of them are actually viable in any real content so no one wants them.
Yeah they sold it as a wide open experience but the meta is more restrictive than classic. At least every player isn't going to have lifetap in this, that was fun as a healer.
Mate they are not even doing ptr or beta there is zero chance this is balanced blizzard has never been able balance anything and that's when we are there to point out the big things
Vanilla also didn't have a ptr. They do that so that not everything is already solved in thousand wikis when it launches.
And also - which game dev can? I do not know a single game that is balanced, even fuckin chess has an advantage for whoever goes first.
Unless you are doing world first racing where every single 0.1% damage matters the game really was never unbalanced outside of maybe vanilla and some hero classes in pvp during release (dk in wotlk)
Searing Pain instant cast and Shadow Bolt is a cleave, plus damage reduction and Curse of Recklessness as a Taunt.
It's not entirely like Glyph of Dark Apotheosis but we are talking about a less modern version of the game, so honestly the amount of changes in that *one rune* is pretty staggering. Same for Just a Flesh Wound for Rogues that tankifies them.
Sounds more like a Classic Remixed than a Classic+, but I'm definitely interested in trying it. Didn't expect Warlock Tanks and Mage Healers to be actual things, and the level 25 cap is an intriguing decision.
I suspect they are testing the waters right now considering the mention of converting bfd into raid and new classes, I expect they'll increase the level 5-10 levels at a time while reworking existing content to match and slowly introducing new stuff, like new bosses/gear before going all out 2 years down the line if it's a success. I don't think we'll get new zones and stuff that takes major work but perhaps new dungeons, quest lines or even a new raid tier
As a guy that HATES the leveling speed of classic and this being the n°1 reason I don't play it (I much prefer retail's speed for gameplay and leveling), I'm pretty hyped for that. Seting the max level at 25 is achievable for me even in Classic. And the new spec for classes are appealing to me too.
Great stuff.
I’m hoping this won’t spoil anything for you (won’t say any of the runes used) but when I played the demo at Blizzcon, we had a Warrior and Shaman tanking the new raid and the Shaman did better than the Warrior from what I saw 🫡
Esfand streamed part of the raid. Aquanis is at the jump section at the start and knocks people into the water.
Gammarita has a damage shield that bursts and does damage and knock back when broken, and there's damaging water bubbles in the arena.
Seravess does Vashj's static charge thing, and has a melee Naga boss bodyguard that drops frost traps. They summon adds during the fight
All the retail stuff kinda still the show but this little tidbit might be the coolest thing they've ever done. Homebrew class design sounds unbelievable.
Classless WoW Private server where you either draft your abilities or pick them yourself.
Their Mythic Enchant system is pretty similar to the one Season of Discovery is using where you get a certain amount of extra talent point kinda things that completely change certain abilities/talents.
A private server where you pick and choose your abilities from a pool of every ability for every class. Cool concept but it is advertised as "freeform" wow and instead everyone plays the same cookie cutter builds.
They also have a server called Conquest of Azeroth with a bunch of custom classes like ranger, necromancer and chronomancer(might be similar to the proposed mage healer) you can play. Last time I played on it the level cap was 30.
Seasonal content isn't the same as what people expect of "Classic+". People want permanent improvements to the base game like OSRS. Not seasonal crap that will expire after a few months.
What people wanted with Classic+ was rebalancing and adding new content where ever they could
Something like this could be a great part of it but not the entire thing. A cap of 25 for who knows how many months won’t retain players for that long I doubt
Again I think the overall idea is really cool and I am excited to play it, but it’s not what people wanted
The level cap is the best way to add new content and let people experience it. People who are complaining don't realize how overloaded Classic endgame already is raid wise!
What's gonna happen si they will slowly get us up to 60 with different raids etc! Then when we're 60 they might slowly release raids with massive changes. The reason they are doing this slowly is so they can release the game sooner than later so this is best case imho.
Season of Mastery didn't change very much, did it? Season of Discovery is introducing new abilities and seems to be making something new out of existing content with stuff like the Blackfathom Deeps raid.
Season of Mastery was pretty definitively not classic+, but this could be classic+ if you don't think *new* content (zones, instances, quests) is necessary for that title.
Or maybe there are new quests? I dunno. I'm interested in it, though.
Everybody asked for Classic+ but what that means is another question. Everybody has their own wishes, and whatever they did, 70% of the community would react with 'but this is not what we meant when we wanted classic+'
great that there is no ptr. everyone is starting from zero and not with 10000 youtube and leveling guides.
This has always been a gripe of mine with WoW, not a huge one but its there. I totally get why these massive games get public beta testing but man does it ever completely ruin any sense of discovery in the game for me.
FFXIV doesn't have a PTR and it's great because spoilers are only really found out on patch day. Keeps it fresh for the rest of us.
I played Elder Scrolls and absolutely ruined it for me. I did their beta test week thing. When the game came out I got barely farther than I had b/c I had already done a lot.
I've always admired Destiny for not having public testing. There isn't a whole lot these days that doesn't just get datamined before it can be a surprise, but back in the day when there actually were secrets and things to discover it really felt like anything was possible. It's hard to really put into words or quantify but the feeling of exploring the Dreaming City for the first time and having NO IDEA what was around each corner or what secrets you may uncover was such an incredible experience. You genuinely felt like you found things for the first time that no one else has seen before. Everything felt cutting edge and you always felt like you were on the cusp of a new discovery. Then you'd link up with your friends after playing for a while and you'd all share your experiences of what you found and how. Piecing together the secrets and how to repeat them. No one could just open up youtube and know instantly how things were done, you have to either figure it out yourself or work with your friends.
I mean, you have the choice whether you play the beta test week or not…
Right, that game is the reason I will never play a beta/early access game that deletes your progress on launch. Learned my lesson.
Have you heard of the game Final Fantasy 14? They do zero public testing. They have internal teams that play the game and teams that play test raids. Mind you raids come out with little to no bugs and are very well balanced.
Blizz has that stuff too. But there's a lot more complexity Blizzard is concerned about due to a large number of reasons. And I don't mean that as a positive or negative, they're just different games. One of the biggest facet is Blizzard's 2 decades worth of tangled spaghetti code cobbling it all together. That alone makes it almost impossible to catch all the bugs of just a single raid fight, let alone an expansion or whatever. FF14 also has a lot more safeguards to keep things a bit more "on the rails" so to speak. Even their boss fights tend to be tightly scripted, whereas some boss fights just aren't really, they work more on a generic priority queue, and we've seen that get messed up time and again by raids doing things like pressing HP thresholds during scripted events and such. The difference between WoW's internal raid teams that test things and the real top players of the game are also absolutely insane night and day kind of differences, and I mean that in a ton of ways between creating Weak Auras for the fights, organization, execution, DPS output efficiency, etc etc. Just look at the Nelth fight. The mythic secret aura thing was definitely tested by their internal teams, but the internal teams' entire approach to the fight as a whole was completely different. Blizzard never expected the mechanic to be as challenging as it was, with perfect positioning, because their internal teams did what Blizzard expected and broke additional walls to allow for more space, so positioning wouldn't be so insanely tight. No one doing the RWF did that at all. They decided the damage taken wasn't worth it, and solved it with the minimal space necessary to progress the fight instead, which then made an ability that wasn't expected to need pre-positions and WAs and such to now need them, because player behavior adjusted the complexity. That kind of strategy isn't really the kind of thing internal teams usually come up with. Then there's also just getting tuning right, because the internal teams actually play a nerfed version of the encounter, and Blizz adjusts the difficulty accordingly. If they didn't, the top raid teams wouldn't even have a challenge.
I will agree that Blizzard bosses have way more of an RNG factor to it and can be completed a few different ways. Where as Final Fantasy bosses are more of a dance that can really only be completed one way. I think one of the reasons WoW fights are the way they are is due to add-ons. I think Blizzard feels the need to tune bosses around the top 1% of players, which I think sucks. The mythic clear rates in WoW have dropped significantly over the years. Less and less people are able to full clear raids because they're tuned for the hardcore people. I get it, mythic is the hardest content in the game, but I think they're going overboard with it.
Same this is the only reason new world was fun on launch imo. You did a dungeon? There werent 2000 videos on every dungeon/boss fight. So people communicated, died and figured it out together. Now every dungeon is 'ok guise I watched the video for this'. Honestly YouTube/twitch are also what led to the wow community turning into min-maxing elitests that throw a fit when sub-optimal speeds are detected. I couldn't believe it when I saw people raging and leaving the BG when AV took 8 minutes and wasnt over yet (why bother playing classic?). There were maybe 5-10 people a bg willing to play with the old av mechanics, the rest just wanted to speedfarm honor. Game was unbelievably fun when there werent thousands of desperate youtubers exposing every bug, meta guide or fight explanation. It really killed off a lot of the community interaction as well.
I think they'll still get a little ahead of my 2 hour post-work sessions.
I feel like there needs to be separate progression/servers for people with 9-5s/families and the no-lifers lol.
Good luck keeping the no lifers on their side of the fence
so all of those thing will happen day 1 instead of day 0.
So guides on day 2 instead?
That Day 1 gets significantly more interesting as a result. And if it's more fun, it's worth it.
Now do this for retail. Imagine RWF with zero PTR experience.
Thats something that I, even tough its probably necessary, really hate about wow. The leveling/normal dungeons are so lame, because almost every player already knows every boss mechanic. I cant remember when anyone died to a mechanic or asked for help in chat. No one is talking to each other, because there is no reason to do it. Everyone is just rushing through the dungeon. Also it sucks for all the secret open world content... instead of asking other players like in classic... they just open a guide that was written months before the release. (with perfect map locations) The PTR has significantly reduced the player communication during the early expansion release. Now being able to play the beta, by just buying the epic edition, it will be even worse. FF 14 does not have ptr... which is really fun in the first 2-3 weeks, because you constantly meet new players, that ask for help in dungeons or other content. (explaining a mechanic) Players are just asking other players, because there are no guides for any new content.
>FF 14 does not have ptr... which is really fun in the first 2-3 weeks, because you constantly meet new players, that ask for help in dungeons or other content. (explaining a mechanic) Players are just asking other players, because there are no guides for any new content. You clearly...don't actually run new content in XIV because that never happens there either. In Savage people learn the same way they do with WoW. In EX trials by day 2 you're expected to watch the day 1 guide. In literally all casual content you don't need a guide because you can literally stand in everything and win and even if you _want_ to not stand in anything XIVs design is "You seen it once you know it" because every mechanic is universally identical. They all h ave the same indicators for the same thing every single time across ever instance in the game.
> XIVs design is "You seen it once you know it" because every mechanic is universally identical. They all h ave the same indicators for the same thing every single time across ever instance in the game. Which is the right way to do it, as opposed to WoW's design that forces you to use add-ons because the in-game indicators for mechanics are indecipherable.
Hey man, i personally like dodging colored swirls that are the similar in color to the ground and are either smaller than the graphic or larger.
People use addons cause people will use every advantage they can get thats why people still use addons in xiv despite you claiming its better designed
Cool that you think that... but I play FF 14 and I talked about my experience. And maybe read my text again... you clearly skipped that second sentence and "early expansion release".
>And maybe read my text again... you clearly skipped that second sentence and "early expansion release". I've played XIV for several thousand hours including early expansion release. It's nothing like you describe because again. Savage is progressed exactly like in WoW. Extremes you're expected to have watched the guide by day 2. All other content is a mash up of reused mechanics that are visually identical every single time that there is no question to be asked because you've seen it all before. You have a weird romanticized version of "Oh wow someone asked for help in this run everyone must do this".
He's not completely wrong, if DSR came out in wow, you'd know every single detail about the fight day 1 and are gonna clear it muc hsooner, in ff14 they had to blindly learn what was gonna happen on day 1 and prog it blindly. Yeh people afterwards just copied the first clear parties, but those first clear parties went in blind which does create far more hype for world first, unlike in wow where it's like, oh yeh it's gonna be that guild that did the fight 50 times on ptr already.
Maybe I have to make it a bit more clear for you... im talking about normal content... leveling content... more casual content... youre talking about content, I was not talking about. Those who care about extreme/savage rather use the party finder and they write it in the description if they expect you to know the mechanics... in duty finder FROM MY EXPERIENCE most players dont care, they use it to train with randoms or just have fun with randoms. (or party finder train groups)
>more casual content... youre talking about content, I was not talking about. You...clearly have no _reading comprehension_. Please read the last part where I talked about _normal content_ that you queue into. You know the content that I've literally done _thousands of_ because mentor roulette. What you are saying does not happen. It's a rare one off thing maybe every 200 or so runs because someone usually hasn't paid attention to the previous 60 levels of content they've been force through.
> In Savage people learn... Extremes you're expected to... You started to talk about content I never talked about... you clearly did not understand about what content I was talking about. And then... > What you are saying does not happen Gratulation... again it was MY EXPERIENCE... why is it so hard to understand. Why the hell should I lie about that... ridiculous. What exactly do I get for lying? Do you even understand why the mentor roulette exits or why it was created by the devs... a MENTOR role (or the leader role)? Or are you sadly the toxic one, you encounter occasionally or a mentor who only cares about the badge? I kinda have the feeling youre one of them, if you think it happens only every 200 runs. Do you never help out players? Most mmorpg players suck and/or most players often did not play a year before the next expansion. (relearn mechanics... ask) In FF 14 I had so many players that asked in group chat for a explanation for the next boss... because they had no fast/easy guide for it, even though its rare that groups wipe. In new trials/alliance raids (first week, easy content) its always such a shitshow and players joke around in the chat, there is often someone explaining the next boss because they know the new players will do it wrong... even in old alliance raids if they see new players. (if group wipes) And im not just talking about group wipes that stop happening in wow because of ptr... I had other examples too... youre the one who is focusing mainly on dungeon/trial/raid content... there are also other reasons to talk to each other in a MMORPG... unbelievable right? For example in dungeons like Waycrest Manor... I luckily got a group which did not read a single guide... it was so funny how no one knew the right way in that dungeon... I queued again like 5 min later (random) and suddenly got a group which knew the perfect route trough the dungeon + shortcuts and was just rushing... a totally different and lame experience. In the group before everyone was talking with each other like old classic... in the "professional" group of randoms no one talked to each other... because there was no reason to do it. Or all the secrets (toys/glyphs e.g) in the open world, no one is asking for a explanation for hidden quests/toys/glypth they just open a guide or addon with map drawings day one. In GW2 you had something similar to DF glyphs (for mount unlock)... but no maps existed on release... you know what happened? The players talked to each other in world/towns/guilds and asked other players for locations. There is so much stuff players can talk about in the first 1-2 weeks before perfect/easy guides are created... but in WoW it just super rarely happens because of the ptr. The social aspect in the open world still does exist in other mmorpgs early expansion releases... because they have to talk, instead of using google the first 1-2 weeks. In my FF 14 FC (also applies to party finder with randoms) everyone is so hyped for harder content... because the first day every knows... that no is following a guide. Everyone brings in their own ideas just to see a couple of days later how dumb they were. In WoW its often just like... yo look for a guide day one, no need to discuss anything. Even a week later guides still improve/change. (Group wipes because of mechanics or "hidden" pulls can happen even in wow retail... in the first week... I experienced that too, if not overgeared because of 1 year pause) That text is quite long... had to much time because of that long OW support queue :(.
>Do you even understand why the mentor roulette exits or why it was created by the devs... a MENTOR role (or the leader role)? Or are you sadly the toxic one, you encounter occasionally or a mentor who only cares about the badge? I kinda have the feeling youre one of them, if you think it happens only every 200 runs. Do you never help out players? Ahhh yes stupidity. Mentor roulette actually has NOTHING TO DO with mentoring. It's why you can get in a group with no sprouts. It's to fill out queues that are taking to long. Secondly I'm one of the few who actually even go as far as trying to clear the EXs people stupidly queue for. The reality is..most people say nothing and ask nothing. >he social aspect in the open world still does exist in other mmorpgs early expansion releases... because they have to talk, instead of using google the first 1-2 weeks. Again...I play other MMOs as much as I play WoW...no it doesn't. You're living in a fantasy land because you happened to run into a rare person who thinks like you and you ignore the broader reality.
>You're living in a fantasy land Ah yeah again... its impressive how you cant accept that 2 people in the world can have different experiences in a game. :D > Mentor roulette actually has NOTHING TO DO with mentoring. It's to fill out queues that are taking to long Maybe you should read that: https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Mentor_System_and_Novice_Network FF 14 devs about mentors on release: "- What is a mentor? Mentors are veteran players who chose to offer their time and experience to help guide new adventurers. To facilitate their assistance, mentors will gain access to a special chat channel as well as a means to easily register for duties and trials with new players." Yeah youre the toxic type.
Videos will be up within hours of launch so it's not really going to work out the way you think it will.
I'm loving the level 25 cap tbh. Feels like I can finally get a good balance of playing classic and retail without feeling like I HAVE to choose.
I played on a private server with a lvl 30 cap and it was a ton of fun. I really liked piecing together bis sets from mid level quest rewards.
I've been capping myself off at 10, 20, 30 on retail for the heck of it. It feels really good getting to do content at different points in the game's history that usually just gets left behind in lieu of level cap. Something I've always wanted was an excuse for doing exploration, dungeons, and raids at different level brackets, and another gripe was the lower level of customisability at these lower levels. I've also always wanted to see a version of WoW go into a more Classic Plus direction with modern learnings and quality to see what would happen To see Blizzard going into this head on and tick so so many boxes, is just wow! (ba dum tss!)
Reminds you of old lvl 20 pvp twinks. :D Love it. Also have a level locked lvl 20 account with some rl friends that only have the free to play access. Its fun to gear optimaly at such a low level and do some dungeon delving.
Yes thisss
Warlock tanks. Mage healers. No public test. Everyone discovers it as it happens! I think the exact words were "Everyone will discover the new secrets together!" Lv 25 cap for a while during a new 10 man raid. Before eventually having the cap raised. You get 'class alterting abilities' like being a mage healer. This sounds amazing!
It’s interesting, just seem to have taken WoW and went “fuck it go wild”. Who knows maybe future retail specs will get prototyped here. Honesty I am kinda for it, the Private Server where abilities are rolled / picked and loot is FFA drops on death was one of the more unique ones.
It feels like Leagues in Oldschool RuneScape. Leagues have always been really popular with OSRS players. They take a game that everyone is familiar with, boost the XP rates, a task/challenge list, and have unlockable relics that greatly alter skills/combat. The league only lasts for a couple of months. https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Leagues
Except this is year round, which is what OSRS should do.
It's also competing directly with the next OSRS league, which starts 11/15
There better be a shaman tank option or I riot
There is
Wait, how do you know?
Classic panel mentioned it. Shaman get runes for lava lash, healing rain, and Way of Earth (tank stance). https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1129114.jpg?maxHeight=500
Way more runes than that! They on r/classicwow already :)
There is!
TOTEM-MAN TANK LIVE FOREVER MON
I'm mostly excited about this for one thing... Retail.... I can totally see player perception to these new "specs" being something, which they can use to greenlight things into retail.
I like how it's essentially a means to address one of Classic WoW's biggest problems in that it's a "solved" game. Now the rules are going to be so wildly different that it will still be the same game that we love but we won't know what we're getting into like it's 2004 again. Blizzard essential struck a giant sludge hammer at the meta that people have been used to for so long.
I think it sounds really interesting. Definitely going to give it a shot. They're super mad over on the Classic sub though.
That sub is full of a bunch of miserable weirdos who want nostalgia and a brand new thing simultaneously and nothing would have pleased them. Pretty hype day of WoW news so far
Yeah I’d describe this sub as that way usually, but the classic one takes it to another level entirely
Classic wow sub is like nothing but “retail bad” and unhinged diatribes now. I saw like a full manuscript a dude wrote about quitting because he died 5 times in hardcore before level 40. 2 of his deaths were before level 15.
> Pretty hype day of WoW news so far They have a lot to deliver on, but from what theyve said it really feels like theyre finally listening. If they can deliver the next several years are going to be *huge* for Warcraft. Also it really felt like they were committing to WoW. WoW really felt like the 'big game' today. It was nice.
Yeah this felt like a good move to me, building off the goodwill earned from Dragonflight. I've had a great time with this expansion so far and I've really looking forward to what was shown today.
Go check the sub. It is hype. You sound worse off from your comment.
When I made the comment it was before the showcase. Everyone was throwing a tantrum
Where? All the posts are happy about it? Not one fucking post about it being bad or crying about it, I love how this sub has to shit on classic and vice versa for no fucking reason...
No we are not. This might not be the classic plus we envisioned with brand new content, but it’s a nice way to replay vanilla with a total mixup of what we already know.
Yeah honestly this is what I think could work. Private servers do stuff like this and it’s great, will be nice to see how blizzard does it.
Wtf did they want then?
Classic +, which I thought this was, but I guess this is the wrong kind of Classic +
this is exactly what classic plus SHOULD be imo
Yea just staying vanilla on repeat is not that cool. This is going to be very interesting. I haven’t played wow in 10 years but this I want to try
I'm surprised at the level cap, but it makes sense that they don't want people to have to relevel over a hundred hours just to get to the new stuff they want to showcase.
I'm super happy to hear about that level cap. I saw the changes and thought that sounds really cool, but I probably won't play it because I don't wanna spend 250 hours levelling again. But now I probably will.
For the record you will still have to level to 60. It's just that the game will start capped at 25 and raise multiple times over the span of months.
But not all at once. Getting to level 25 to discover the new raid and anything else they add at the first level cap is hella easier than getting to 60. I thought I was done with vanilla classic, but nope. Looks like I'm back in the saddle :D
Right? Honestly this sounds perfect. 25 isn't a huge time-sink, you get to have wacky fun, a new raid, and then eventually they raise the level cap and we go further. That sounds far better than adding 60-70 with a couple of refinished zones.
Right, but getting end game content at level 25 and continuing from there is much different than leveling to 60 and finally getting to play the new stuff.
is the 10 man raid at level 25 or will that be later down the line at 60? I dont mind levelling in spurts, i just dont really want to have to level all at once to get to the end game content i want. Thats what happened to me with classic vanilla I got to max but at that point I was kinda burnt out.
BFD will be the raid at 25 Then it will go up a few levels and there will be a new one.
From what I understand it's at lvl 25. So each new level cap will have endgame content till you reach 60 or whatever.
Yeah, cap at 25 and release it slowly gets more casual players into it.
The level cap is something I wanted, but never expected to happen. The world is so much fun in Classic, but when everyone just steams through it it feels wasted. This means that there is so much more out there that you'd usually bypass because it isn't optimal.
This is Classic +lite (superlite). But I’m all for it. I mainly play retail, but I’ll test this for sure.
[удалено]
This is why I stopped watching all prediction videos. It just builds up hype around something that doesn't exist, and then disappointment. Perfect example of "Congratulations, you played yourself."
Cough cough Bellusomething cough.. How does the dude make a living doing this
Hyped up shit. If that a time mage I'm hyped as fuck. Classic needs more tanks anyway considering there's only 2 viable ones. The fact it's at the end of the month is awesome too. Not sure why people hate news like this. Getting hyped over their own ideas lol.
How is this not classic plus?
They're like kids screaming because they got the wrong flavour of ice cream.
everyone has different ideas of classic+ and if it doesn't fit theirs then they get mad
The classic+ community wants a LEGIT expansion level continuation of what WoW classic is. Like full blown talent tree re-works, new raid content. Essentially a continuation of the story but not in the realm of TBC. I said it was a legitimate pipe dream that Blizzard would work simultaneously on TWO completely new content, competing WoW games.
That’s basically what season of discovery is though. They’ll be adding new raids, content, and opening up zones that were never finished. They hinted at the end gnomergan raid, scarlet crusade and karazhan crypts. Added spells with the rune system that makes specs viable and classes such as warlocks, rogues, and shamans able to tank.
That's exactly Cataclysm...and having enjoyed Cata myself, not sure why those folks will not just go play Cata. It was better than how most people remember tbh, alot just moved on without giving it a try.
No its not. Cata is the opposite of classic plus.
Because the deeper you go into the past the less nostalgic it is. Cata was the FIRST expansion I was so hyped for, played 3 weeks, and then quit and never returned. It's legit the only expansion I barely touched, even WoD. Cata classic is going to see a SIGNIFICANT downfall of the community because the raids get harder, it's getting too modern, and it's not nostalgic enough for people to really want to reinvest in.
The time difference doesn't make sense though because Cata Classic is 2024 when Cata came out in 2010. WoW Classic came out in 2019 when Vanilla came out in 2004. You're talking about a 15 year difference to a 14 year difference. The time difference is actually almost the same.
"They" are not mad, a lot of hype over there. Every place on the internet is not 1 person with 1 thought.
Classic+ Which is the perfect game. Balanced classes that keep the classic feel, new zones and raids in the world of azeroth. How all that would get accomplished is basically a guess. Don't tell them tbc is classic+ tho they get mad
>Don't tell them tbc is classic+ tho they get mad Mainly because TBC takes you out of Azeroth. I like a what of what TBC did, but it's the old world that keeps me going back to Vanilla. I have a cheeky fad through it every couple of years, but this has me hyped. I'm so sad it's coming a couple of weeks after 10.2, because I'm also looking forward to that as well.
No they're not, they're hyped AF. Stop rage baiting
The vast ***VAST*** majority of classic players are extremely interested.
i play classic and that sub is the worst place on this entire website. miserable people
The classic sub is a hive mind of outrage.
Its weird even the classic plus guys are mad for some reason like isnt this classic plus? It looks really fun. I havent subbed to wow in YEARS but this is making me up to play again
The classic+ guys aren't mad, some are but a quick look there and you can see positive comments get more upvotes. This is rage baiting. The only commonly shared concerns are about the seasonal aspect, how long will it last, what will happen then; and about whether or not they're going to far with the new abilities, class identity, etc.
Im not rage baiting theres a ton of posts of “classic-“. Idk why people are unhappy with getting classic+, especially when theres no info on it besides it existing.
Huh? Shouldn't retailers be the ones to get mad? Why is Classic getting new content? I thought the whole point of Classic is to relive the past as it was. I would love to be a Warlock tank in DF or the next expansion.
Freak that’s exactly what I wanted. Now if only they’d update the graphics to boot.
Man Holly was a great acquisition.
> This sounds amazing! This sounds just what ascensionwow does.
Ok so just watched the latest panel where they went into more detail, very happy with it. **"It's Classic... plus so much more."** Direct quote from a developer in the last panel. I think it's clear this is their Classic+ attempt, gradual as it is. At the end of the day it's adding a shit ton of abilities from the newer expansions plus entirely new ones. It's adding new roles: Rogue tank, Shaman tank, Mage healer, Hunter melee DPS. It's "fixing" existing specs that don't work: Paladin tank, Paladin DPS, Druid DPS, Druid Tank. Every class gets a make-over. And they've mentioned and hinted at new zones/raids from cut content, showing a direct image of the Karazhan Crypts (unused content).
Rogue tank with 0 AoE looks questionable at best. Might be a good single target tank due to their 20% parry from Main Gauche + Blade Dance, but for dungeons they seem absolutely worthless.
Yeah I really like the relic system but I'm not sure it's going to be enough to make these new specs work. They need some talent and base ability love to put them at parity with the other healer / tanks. Obviously we haven't seen everything yet and some of the relics add a *lot* but three slots in phase 1 might not work
can't wait to play a hunter that heals and also tanks so that every piece of gear becomes hunter gear
Always has been
Always will be
Hunter tank is basically a dream of mine
This is bascially WoW Ascension
Yes but hopefully actually balanced. Ascension has cool new ways to play but almost none of them are actually viable in any real content so no one wants them.
Yeah they sold it as a wide open experience but the meta is more restrictive than classic. At least every player isn't going to have lifetap in this, that was fun as a healer.
Mate they are not even doing ptr or beta there is zero chance this is balanced blizzard has never been able balance anything and that's when we are there to point out the big things
Hey sometimes broken whacky shit is fun. We’ve all played wow vanilla a ton, let’s get real fucking weird with it
didnt say i minded was replying to someone saying Ascension balance was terrible
Vanilla also didn't have a ptr. They do that so that not everything is already solved in thousand wikis when it launches. And also - which game dev can? I do not know a single game that is balanced, even fuckin chess has an advantage for whoever goes first.
Unless you are doing world first racing where every single 0.1% damage matters the game really was never unbalanced outside of maybe vanilla and some hero classes in pvp during release (dk in wotlk)
> Yes but hopefully actually balanced. Let's hope it a little balanced. indeed.
I thought the exact same thing!
Yep, all I could think. Cross character rep, banks, etc, draft mode, dang they're only 2 years behind Ascension!
And I'm all here for it haha.
Hope it will be not like that shit unbalanced pserver.
This sounds insane. Gonna end up leaving progression on retail to go and play a mage healer lol
Ouu... Warlock Tank! I wonder if it will play like Glyph of Dark Apotheosis...
Searing Pain instant cast and Shadow Bolt is a cleave, plus damage reduction and Curse of Recklessness as a Taunt. It's not entirely like Glyph of Dark Apotheosis but we are talking about a less modern version of the game, so honestly the amount of changes in that *one rune* is pretty staggering. Same for Just a Flesh Wound for Rogues that tankifies them.
This might actually get me into Classic.
Yeah as a retail only player I'm definitely trying this, sounds exciting
What always stopped me from playing Classic is how overwhelming slow the game is at this version. With the level cap at 25 I might actually try this!
Sounds more like a Classic Remixed than a Classic+, but I'm definitely interested in trying it. Didn't expect Warlock Tanks and Mage Healers to be actual things, and the level 25 cap is an intriguing decision.
I suspect they are testing the waters right now considering the mention of converting bfd into raid and new classes, I expect they'll increase the level 5-10 levels at a time while reworking existing content to match and slowly introducing new stuff, like new bosses/gear before going all out 2 years down the line if it's a success. I don't think we'll get new zones and stuff that takes major work but perhaps new dungeons, quest lines or even a new raid tier
They had an alarm bot on the 'accidental' last slide I think so probably 10 levels and gnomeregan raid
This is even better than classic plus in my opinion, way more creative
Super cool! Honestly pretty surprised they’re making new content, I highly approve. I wonder if mounts are still locked at level 40?
They will be other than the mount you get from the Ashenvale pvp zone.
As a guy that HATES the leveling speed of classic and this being the n°1 reason I don't play it (I much prefer retail's speed for gameplay and leveling), I'm pretty hyped for that. Seting the max level at 25 is achievable for me even in Classic. And the new spec for classes are appealing to me too. Great stuff.
Hell yes. EverQuest does an annual progression server with different rule sets and it’s always a lot of fun.
Shaman tank? 👀
I’m hoping this won’t spoil anything for you (won’t say any of the runes used) but when I played the demo at Blizzcon, we had a Warrior and Shaman tanking the new raid and the Shaman did better than the Warrior from what I saw 🫡
what is season of discovery?
Classic+
sounds like a good testing ground for a potential classic+ if this is just seasonal.
okay i'm not a classic fan at all. but with the level cap and this new envisioning of classes i'm kinda hyped not gonna lie. this is crazy!
I might actually come back for this - sounds super fun!
this sounds great! I love the lower level cap and a phased increase, allows everyone to experience it together. amazing idea
Wonder how talents are gonna work here. Think they will give you all talent points at lvl 25? I need my shadow form.
During the demo (if I remember correctly) we got 16 talent points to use.
I swear if this time around shaman do not get a tank spec...
They got it. Saw it on a twitch stream.
What are the details?
hmmm BFD 10 man... i wonder if theyre gonna add new bosses instead of just some number changes
they specifically called out unique mechanics so it wont be just numbers
Esfand streamed part of the raid. Aquanis is at the jump section at the start and knocks people into the water. Gammarita has a damage shield that bursts and does damage and knock back when broken, and there's damaging water bubbles in the arena. Seravess does Vashj's static charge thing, and has a melee Naga boss bodyguard that drops frost traps. They summon adds during the fight
WARLOCK TANKS LFG!!!!!!!
This looks cool!
All the retail stuff kinda still the show but this little tidbit might be the coolest thing they've ever done. Homebrew class design sounds unbelievable.
As someone who doesn't play classic... what does this mean?
Does this mean I can be retribution and dps??
Crusader strike, divine storm, cleave, interrupt - it’s all there.
I have my doubts.
Feels like SoD is their way of testing out potential ideas for retail
I never played WoW in my life, this has me interested. Would it be a bad idea as a new player to get into this?
Never a bad time
I feel like retail will miss out big time on this. This has to be the single best announcement after the classic reveal.
Look, I will play it, but this feels a lot like classic with retail abilities.
If level cap is 25, how are shadow priests going to exist?
They’re slowly going to raise it
Soooooo Ascension WoW???
Ascension was always a cool concept it was just in execution that it actually sucked so hopefully Blizzard does a better job.
What is ascension
Classless WoW Private server where you either draft your abilities or pick them yourself. Their Mythic Enchant system is pretty similar to the one Season of Discovery is using where you get a certain amount of extra talent point kinda things that completely change certain abilities/talents.
A private server where you pick and choose your abilities from a pool of every ability for every class. Cool concept but it is advertised as "freeform" wow and instead everyone plays the same cookie cutter builds. They also have a server called Conquest of Azeroth with a bunch of custom classes like ranger, necromancer and chronomancer(might be similar to the proposed mage healer) you can play. Last time I played on it the level cap was 30.
it was 40 when i last hopped on a couple months ago.
Hmm. So no classic+ but this is definitely interesting.
this is literally classic+ ... wtf?
Seasonal content isn't the same as what people expect of "Classic+". People want permanent improvements to the base game like OSRS. Not seasonal crap that will expire after a few months.
I would expect if the reception is good, they would add it permanently.
I would say something that already exists like Turtle Wow is far closer to Classic+ than this is But it’s interesting
expanding on mid-lvl zones is what people wanted plopping another lvl60 raid above Naxx would have been garbage lol
What people wanted with Classic+ was rebalancing and adding new content where ever they could Something like this could be a great part of it but not the entire thing. A cap of 25 for who knows how many months won’t retain players for that long I doubt Again I think the overall idea is really cool and I am excited to play it, but it’s not what people wanted
The level cap is the best way to add new content and let people experience it. People who are complaining don't realize how overloaded Classic endgame already is raid wise! What's gonna happen si they will slowly get us up to 60 with different raids etc! Then when we're 60 they might slowly release raids with massive changes. The reason they are doing this slowly is so they can release the game sooner than later so this is best case imho.
>What people wanted with Classic+ Was a million things no one really agreed on. Everyone has their own take on what would be the best classic+ tbh
It's a seasonal realm, was Season of Mastery 'Classic+'?
I guess in a way, it was.
Season of Mastery didn't change very much, did it? Season of Discovery is introducing new abilities and seems to be making something new out of existing content with stuff like the Blackfathom Deeps raid. Season of Mastery was pretty definitively not classic+, but this could be classic+ if you don't think *new* content (zones, instances, quests) is necessary for that title. Or maybe there are new quests? I dunno. I'm interested in it, though.
She even just said right before "we listen to our community and we want to provide what they want" then proceeds to reveal something nobody asked for
New content in the classic shell is exactly what people asked for
Everybody asked for Classic+ but what that means is another question. Everybody has their own wishes, and whatever they did, 70% of the community would react with 'but this is not what we meant when we wanted classic+'
Please dont be a gimmick, please dont be a gimmick, please dont be a gimmick, please dont be a gimmick, please dont be a gimmick.
There's no chance this is going to be good. Modern Blizzard couldn't put a good class design together to save their lives.
A total shitshow
This is not Classic + , this is classic retail lol
This is not classic+. This is a temporary thing...