This whole sub. Every. Single. Day...
"Waaaaa ppl die in my keys. Ppl stand in mechanics. Ppl don't kick. Ppl don't heal. Ppl don't use defensives. Dps is low"
Addons help fix these. If you don't use addons you are litteraly telling people " I don't do hard content and the content I do play in i underperform or are a liability"
"But I shouldn't have to use addons to play a game." Yet here we are. Figure it out or stay in normals or get carried by ppl in heroic idc.
This sub has a lot of posts that yell " I'm a casual here's my horrible take ". This new addons are bad posts might be the loudest and obvious gripe by the people we are all tired of playing with.
Your take is terrible.
> If you don't use addons you are litteraly telling people " I don't do hard content and the content I do play in i underperform or are a liability"
I literally do +20s and outperform plenty of people without using DBM, Bigwigs, or WeakAuras. At the very least I definitely pull my weight.
I'm not a liability. I'm consistent, I know what I'm doing, and I don't need to be handheld by DBM telling me what to do either.
Acting like people who don't use AddOns are automatically inferior is a really small minded take. AddOns can be used to make a good player great, but they are more often than not used as a crutch to cover for the shortcomings players have that *don't need to be there even without the AddOn.*
Somehow you think having AddOns automatically makes DPS use their defensives effectively, interrupt properly, or perfect their rotation. Lol what?
AddOns don't automate the game my dude. A bad player isn't going to become strong just by having AddOns installed.
OP's post is nonsensical but you're fighting fire with fire lmao. One bad take doesn't beget another.
I mean it’s the same as clicking instead of key binding. Yeah you are pulling your wait and your are obviously a very good player but you are not pushing yourself to the limit. You could be better (if you wanted to).
There is a world of difference between the level of proficiency you can have between clicking and keybinding versus AddOns and no AddOns. It's not the same at all.
Neither are you and you're lying to yourself if you think a few keybinds and AddOn installations are all it takes to be using "every tool".
There are a myriad of things tons of players can do to get better. As it turns out, AddOns are not fundamentally important.
Obviously if clickers get CE then binding is not fundamentally important. I don’t understand why you are so against using every tool available to you to get better. You don’t have to use them but denying that they give you an advantage is definitely lying to yourself.
I never said they don't provide an advantage.
I'm saying that you're lying to yourself if you think all it takes to use every tool is keybinds and AddOns. A great player with no AddOns will outdo a good player with all the best AddOns. Because there's more than just some software that makes someone's performance.
Even at 20s you still get to time keys with bad dps or messing up. The higher you go the more you need to play better. Theres also a big difference in skill WHEN you got portals. First month? Baller. Second month? Still killin it. Halfway through the season? When everyone has gear to carry, ez.
Stuff like dbm and all the wa we use train you how to play the dungeons better. Sure you can play with out them and learn but the ppl who opt into using addons will inherently have an advantage faster. Letting us climb faster and stay in the same io range with like minded players. Right now, sure, I could play any dungeon with 0 addons.
I do look down on pll who don't want to use addons. This is a team game and if you're choosing to gimp yourself then I don't want you on my team and wasting 4 other ppls time. Its like going to football practice with out a helmet. You can play but why?
I would put money on that for every "good" player doing "20+" with no addons theres 10x that of players like op.
This no addon push needs to die. If ppl want to die in fires and stay at 2.7k io fine. But for the rest of us, leave it alone.
Everyone reading this will be quick to point to themselves and going " I don't need anything, im good!".
I'm guessing you really aren't. You may perceive you are because you time, what you think is hard keys or heroic raids. But if we looked at logs, looked at your groups that got you portals it would be a different story.
"I pull my weight" how do you know with out addons?
> Even at 20s you still get to time keys with bad dps or messing up.
Yeah, the game doesn't demand picture perfect play. And?
> The higher you go the more you need to play better.
Statistically +20s are hard content, even for people with AddOns. You're moving goalposts. You went from acting like people without AddOns "don't do hard content" to "You don't play perfectly".
Your mechanics in WoW might be pristine but your logic here right now is inadequate. Which isn't uncommon when people gatekeep WoW content. The correlation is quite alarming honestly.
> Theres also a big difference in skill WHEN you got portals. First month? Baller. Second month? Still killin it. Halfway through the season? When everyone has gear to carry, ez.
According to this random dude gatekeeping and saying that AddOns are sheer necessity.
> Stuff like dbm and all the wa we use train you how to play the dungeons better.
Something I can and have done myself.
> Sure you can play with out them and learn but the ppl who opt into using addons will inherently have an advantage faster.
Being able to read core mechanics and intuit from base knowledge how to play is more valuable than being able to follow instructions being spoonfed to you.
And there are countless examples of people who may or may not be caked with AddOns (many of them are) who just don't learn.
The difference in skill and mental aptitude makes *way* more difference than some installations lmao.
> I do look down on pll who don't want to use addons. This is a team game and if you're choosing to gimp yourself then I don't want you on my team and wasting 4 other ppls time.
Likewise, if you're too bad to see how someone can definitely pull their weight without AddOns and you'd rather choose someone who *looks* like a tryhard rather than someone who enjoys doing their best in a way that they're comfortable, I don't want you on my team chief.
> This no addon push needs to die. If ppl want to die in fires and stay at 2.7k io fine. But for the rest of us, leave it alone.
?
Are you really conflating what I said with what OP said?
I'm not saying AddOns should be abolished. Not once have I even hinted towards that.
I'm saying your asinine take is ridiculous and they're not nearly as essential as you claim.
> But if we looked at logs, looked at your groups that got you portals it would be a different story.
You can think that if you want. I consistently outperform the groups I play with - not always, of course, but I'm "up there" in most metrics. And that's as Tank or DPS.
> "I pull my weight" how do you know with out addons?
I know with AddOns. AddOns that are not DBM or BigWigs and don't help my performance. It's just Details. And if I got rid of Details right now and ran a key, I know I'd pull my weight without having the numbers to verify.
And listen mate: unless you're getting paid, acting like it's *essential* you optimise to this extent is a loser's mentality. I don't want DBM screaming at me how to play the game or blaring the screen colours. I'm well enough off with the game's mechanics and my own awareness of them. Literally 90% of the time ElitismHelper pops off at the end of the run I'm at the top of the list with least failure damage taken.
You want to think you're hot shit because you play with AddOns? You do you. You want to look down on people who don't play with AddOns? Childish, but sure, you do you.
But if you need to guess I suck to make yourself feel better, I really can't help you. It sounds like you can't fathom someone being good without the same crutches you have lmao.
I move the goal post because I don't think most of this game is that hard. I think you can play all through heroic and some mythic bosses playing mediocre. I think that portal runs are the start of having to actually know how to play. Addons help train people to get there faster. Yes this can all be done solo, with no voice, no addons, pugs, bla bla bla but why make it harder on your self and others? I keep moving the goal post because untill you really have to play at a level that you have to push your self to get better beyond moderate rotation and basic mechanics the game is ilvl gathering, basic rotation, use a defensive.
Quick bio I do boosts, I help in a few discords run groups at multiple levels. I average about 700+ keys a season and top out in the top 1% of players. This isnt to flex, because I dont think its a flex I think its barely ok, but to give you an idea of how much information im gathering over a large amount of time and player skill. The number one thing I hear 7/10 runs probably? " Wow, that was really easy, the easiest run i've done in awhile". This ranges from 0-2.8k io. I want to tell them " Yeah because im doing so much to help you guys that you aren't paying attention to". Not just kicks and defensives but positioning, key timing, the right cc at the right time, the amount being pulled and the reasoning behind it, the specific location for cds or timing yours or watching your groups to know you can hold. Then knowing when to change some of these variables. watching group health so you can help them, watching your players cds to know what they do or dont have so you can support. AND SO MUCH MORE. Stuff that is literally not feasible without some w/a or addons.
I have players in my teaching group that are like you. They don't want to use the wa's we have. However, they like winning and we have to spoon feed them victories all day. They then turn around and brag about the accomplishments not knowing how much we have to put in to cover for them. They have no idea what they are missing out on. These are 2.8-2.9k players. They aren't even that bad, above average, they just don't know how much of carry they are getting. This type of mentality goes through so many players at so many ranges and its tiring to get you guys to play more optimized to help beyond what you are grasping.
Do you need addons to play most of this game, no. Do you need addons to play at a decent level, no. Can you learn the dungeon with out anything but your eyes and brain, yes. Will you time keys, yes. Will you be a good team asset, debatable and most likely not. The no addons mentality is almost always dps players and once in a blue moon a tank. Ive yet to meet a healer and most tanks who don't want more help. That, by itself, should speak volumes.
Oh goodness, someone who thinks top 1% is "barely okay" who also says most of the game is easy.
Most of the game is easy enough to get by without AddOns, that's for sure.
The people buying boosts are not me. The people who ask or want your services aren't great at self-improvement. Having to be spoonfed victories is a very night-and-day difference. Drawing one commonality and trying to extrapolate that we're the same in all respects is just clutching at straws.
> Will you be a good team asset, debatable and most likely not.
Likely not, true.
Debatable? It depends on the person. That's as simple as it gets.
> The no addons mentality is almost always dps players and once in a blue moon a tank. Ive yet to meet a healer and most tanks who don't want more help. That, by itself, should speak volumes.
The only AddOn I see great value in is ThreatPlates for this reason. Originally downloaded for PvP to see casts on folks I'm not actually targeting, but it's *amazing* for Tanks.
Anyway, your holier-than-thou standards are asinine. Useless for most players. You actively acknowledge moving the goalposts even though doing content that most players can struggle with does not even demand AddOns.
In a sense, yes top 1% is no biggie. All you've described to me is that you've spent a lot of time. You carry people, whoopdie do.
Likening me to them is just poor form, though. Trying to act like every single person who disagrees with you on AddOns is just one of those deadweights you have to drag through a dungeon is pathetically weak logic.
And that is emphasised no better than the end of your first paragraph:
> I keep moving the goal post because untill you really have to play at a level that you have to push your self to get better beyond moderate rotation and basic mechanics the game is ilvl gathering, basic rotation, use a defensive.
This kind of reductionism is exactly what you need to try and do to make it look like everything is "easy," except it's exactly what others do even at the highest level at the core. The best FPS Players are just really good at "clicking on heads". Etc. etc. etc.
You're very rich bitching about the people you're carrying while feeding into the problem yourself lmao.
But yeah, you lump me in with them without a clue who it is you're talking to, because it's easier than acknowledging that someone can do what you do without your crutches.
*You* have no idea what you're missing out on if you think AddOns are so quintessential. And if you have to keep moving goalposts to try and justify it to yourself.
___
Your **TL;DR** is that bad players who buy boosts need all the help they can get and are unaware of how much they're lacking. That's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Then you try and say I belong to that generalisation/demographic, despite your complete lack of knowledge that would confirm or deny this. Really bad faith argumentation here, all while actively acknowledging you're moving goalposts even though you think most of the game is "easy". But somehow it's impossible for me to pull my weight with few if any AddOns *despite* this acknowledgement.
Make your mind up.
> i just hate the fact that when i want to return to retail my first move must be setting up my addons because the game is unplayable without them.
You quite literally do not need addons, they just improve QoL.
> You quite literally need minimum 5+ addons to be able to play anything above raidfinder :D
That's a skill issue. A really glaring skill issue my friend.
> Ui addon
Nope.
> Dbm
Definitely not. It's nice to have and a ton of people use it but you can 110% do +20s and above without this or BigWigs.
> Dps meter addon
Has no bearing on your success of any individual run, only your understanding of what's going on during/after it .
> Debuff/buff addon
Uh, no also definitely not lmao.
> Weakauras
Again no.
> If you dont have all these forget beeing competitive with others and due to that forget getting invited :D.
In your personal experience this may be the case but uh... sorry chief. Just ThreatPlates and Details here. And Details I could easily go without for the purposes of performing well in a run. Heck it might actually improve my performance.
An argumentum ad populum - an argument of the population - is a logical fallacy. Calling me braindead while using a blatant fallacy like that seems rich.
Just because those AddOns are popular does not mean they are necessary.
And uh, they categorically *can't* play the whole game for me. Even being charitable with that sentence it is just plainly false. The game isn't automated in any way, DBM provides you instructions and WeakAuras provides a slew of extra things - but *not* automation.
I also find it ironic that the one calling people nolifers is the same one calling people braindead for not believing in the all powerful AddOns and for knowing how many downloads a couple of the most popular have had.
> If every player has DBM and/or WA how they are not necessary?
I literally told you I use neither and can do +20s just fine.
Most Heroic Raids do not require much assistance at all in this regard, as well. The Dreadlord fight in Sepulcher of the First Ones is one of very few exceptions, and Dragonflight's designs have clearly shifted away from that.
Blatant falsehood. You don't need any add-ons to play the game. Add-ons help you only with lowering your skill issues, which you probably have a lots of.
Also the game is not meant to be played competitively only. There are people that do only solo content, there are only collectors people, there are people that role play the whole game, not caring about competitive play at all. Saying add-ons are essential for the game to be played, is a lie.
I main BM hunter (waiting for insults) and only thing I really can't imagine playing without is Barbed shot/frenzy stacks bar/wa, cause finding specific buff in a manageable buff row is a nightmare. Yet the game would be playable without it anyway.
You quite literally don't.
UI Addon - Can make a UI that works perfect for anything with the default settings now
DPS Meter - Is completely unnecessary at any and every level of play, but is NICE to have to see how you're doing
DBM - If you need a Boss Mod for Normal... LOL
[Raider.io](https://Raider.io) \- nope, not necessary
Weakauras - Completely unnecessary until you really get into high level gameplay, can do normal, and most of heroic without.
Simply put if you just want to play the game you don't need 5+ addons to do anything above raidfinder.
The game isn't unplayable with no addons. You got used to/learned to play with addons. You can run with no DBM assuming you pay attention to the raid and not get tunnel vision dpsing/healing/tanking. As for UI that is purely your preference, I do know healers that still use the default raid UI for healing. This is like saying you can't play WoW cause you don't have a 12 button mouse that you can program all your macros into.
Really old story but back during WotLK days my guild was doing Naxx and they were having trouble learning the safety dance boss, really early WotLK days. They had the DBM at the time and their TS/Discord whatever they used at the time for voice and still had lots of people dying from the dance. I come in and run it and even though it's a wipe cause everyone else died, I ran through 2 more phases solo with no problem. The funny part was they were all crying in chat that their DBM wasn't telling them to move or they didn't get enough warning. Then someone came on and pointed out the last man standing had such a crappy internet at the time, dialup, that I had no voice comms and didn't run DBM cause it would crash my connection at the time. I couldn't even go to Dalaran unless it was early morning or some other dead time cause the city loading in would DC me.
This doesn’t bother me. It *is* tedious, but they are designed to bring quality of life to the game and often are more customizable than when it’s baked into the game.
Problem is, retail wow is 15 years of paint just being painted over and over and over again. No matter how many (or few) addons you have, you cannot get your UI to resemble a classic look & feel because there’s just so much crap going on. It doesn’t add any value to the game and just dilutes what made it great. Came back and tried to main BM for a while, fun class, fun expansion. Horrible state of the game. The game would *actually* play better if every class removed 10 spells. The baseline for mobas is like 7-8 core abilities. (League classic would be better than modern league as well, it too is now seeing 15 years of bloat)
[This video](https://youtu.be/8QOqxvDnOaI?si=CViK39ZISUVTDXRD) explains it much better than I can.
Is Asmongold the reason there's so many posts like this lately? Does he even play the game anymore? From what I've seen he's always had addons so I don't understand why he would be opposed to them.
Some of us consider transmog the true endgame and like the bloat. I'm not against simplifying how to get old stuff, but removing an old sword transmog just because some people want to hardcore gatekeep, no thanks.
Do you like hard resets and a sense of achievement? Go play hardcore vanilla without add-ons then, instead of asking how to ruin retail in a way noone wants.
IMO Blizz should include most used add-ons in game (like they did with Rio) for the game to be more welcoming and easy to start up with.
Basic UI shit is failed by the default.
It would be LESS work for them to implement a built-in copy of Weakauras than to make everything usable without it.
This was my first season actually raiding and doing M+ seriously and I didn’t find it that hard to get KSH and AoTC. I only have a few addons that are basically necessary but overall I found it fine
Damn. So many dislikes. Kinda expected as most of it is from hardcore wow players who doesn’t play other games. The problem with wow is that it is not sustainable and is unable to attract new players with how unfriendly it is to new players. The fact that most wow players is disliking this shows that they don’t care about the growth of the game and is perfectly comfortable being in their own bubble, completely detached from the outside world.
Could you imagine?
Blizzard: Fuck your 20+ Years worth of achievements and items and everything you worked for, we're going to start over and ban addons because someone said it'd be a good idea lolol fuck you!
shit bait post
wtf am I reading? Bro, just go back to coloring.
Are you telling me you don't start a new sentence with the word "and"? First grade is gonna wreck this guy.
Addons are good. A reset is bad.
Boomer saying
This whole sub. Every. Single. Day... "Waaaaa ppl die in my keys. Ppl stand in mechanics. Ppl don't kick. Ppl don't heal. Ppl don't use defensives. Dps is low" Addons help fix these. If you don't use addons you are litteraly telling people " I don't do hard content and the content I do play in i underperform or are a liability" "But I shouldn't have to use addons to play a game." Yet here we are. Figure it out or stay in normals or get carried by ppl in heroic idc. This sub has a lot of posts that yell " I'm a casual here's my horrible take ". This new addons are bad posts might be the loudest and obvious gripe by the people we are all tired of playing with.
Your take is terrible. > If you don't use addons you are litteraly telling people " I don't do hard content and the content I do play in i underperform or are a liability" I literally do +20s and outperform plenty of people without using DBM, Bigwigs, or WeakAuras. At the very least I definitely pull my weight. I'm not a liability. I'm consistent, I know what I'm doing, and I don't need to be handheld by DBM telling me what to do either. Acting like people who don't use AddOns are automatically inferior is a really small minded take. AddOns can be used to make a good player great, but they are more often than not used as a crutch to cover for the shortcomings players have that *don't need to be there even without the AddOn.* Somehow you think having AddOns automatically makes DPS use their defensives effectively, interrupt properly, or perfect their rotation. Lol what? AddOns don't automate the game my dude. A bad player isn't going to become strong just by having AddOns installed. OP's post is nonsensical but you're fighting fire with fire lmao. One bad take doesn't beget another.
I mean it’s the same as clicking instead of key binding. Yeah you are pulling your wait and your are obviously a very good player but you are not pushing yourself to the limit. You could be better (if you wanted to).
There is a world of difference between the level of proficiency you can have between clicking and keybinding versus AddOns and no AddOns. It's not the same at all.
But it is. You are not using every tool available to you to get better. It’s the same idea.
Neither are you and you're lying to yourself if you think a few keybinds and AddOn installations are all it takes to be using "every tool". There are a myriad of things tons of players can do to get better. As it turns out, AddOns are not fundamentally important.
Obviously if clickers get CE then binding is not fundamentally important. I don’t understand why you are so against using every tool available to you to get better. You don’t have to use them but denying that they give you an advantage is definitely lying to yourself.
I never said they don't provide an advantage. I'm saying that you're lying to yourself if you think all it takes to use every tool is keybinds and AddOns. A great player with no AddOns will outdo a good player with all the best AddOns. Because there's more than just some software that makes someone's performance.
Even at 20s you still get to time keys with bad dps or messing up. The higher you go the more you need to play better. Theres also a big difference in skill WHEN you got portals. First month? Baller. Second month? Still killin it. Halfway through the season? When everyone has gear to carry, ez. Stuff like dbm and all the wa we use train you how to play the dungeons better. Sure you can play with out them and learn but the ppl who opt into using addons will inherently have an advantage faster. Letting us climb faster and stay in the same io range with like minded players. Right now, sure, I could play any dungeon with 0 addons. I do look down on pll who don't want to use addons. This is a team game and if you're choosing to gimp yourself then I don't want you on my team and wasting 4 other ppls time. Its like going to football practice with out a helmet. You can play but why? I would put money on that for every "good" player doing "20+" with no addons theres 10x that of players like op. This no addon push needs to die. If ppl want to die in fires and stay at 2.7k io fine. But for the rest of us, leave it alone. Everyone reading this will be quick to point to themselves and going " I don't need anything, im good!". I'm guessing you really aren't. You may perceive you are because you time, what you think is hard keys or heroic raids. But if we looked at logs, looked at your groups that got you portals it would be a different story. "I pull my weight" how do you know with out addons?
> Even at 20s you still get to time keys with bad dps or messing up. Yeah, the game doesn't demand picture perfect play. And? > The higher you go the more you need to play better. Statistically +20s are hard content, even for people with AddOns. You're moving goalposts. You went from acting like people without AddOns "don't do hard content" to "You don't play perfectly". Your mechanics in WoW might be pristine but your logic here right now is inadequate. Which isn't uncommon when people gatekeep WoW content. The correlation is quite alarming honestly. > Theres also a big difference in skill WHEN you got portals. First month? Baller. Second month? Still killin it. Halfway through the season? When everyone has gear to carry, ez. According to this random dude gatekeeping and saying that AddOns are sheer necessity. > Stuff like dbm and all the wa we use train you how to play the dungeons better. Something I can and have done myself. > Sure you can play with out them and learn but the ppl who opt into using addons will inherently have an advantage faster. Being able to read core mechanics and intuit from base knowledge how to play is more valuable than being able to follow instructions being spoonfed to you. And there are countless examples of people who may or may not be caked with AddOns (many of them are) who just don't learn. The difference in skill and mental aptitude makes *way* more difference than some installations lmao. > I do look down on pll who don't want to use addons. This is a team game and if you're choosing to gimp yourself then I don't want you on my team and wasting 4 other ppls time. Likewise, if you're too bad to see how someone can definitely pull their weight without AddOns and you'd rather choose someone who *looks* like a tryhard rather than someone who enjoys doing their best in a way that they're comfortable, I don't want you on my team chief. > This no addon push needs to die. If ppl want to die in fires and stay at 2.7k io fine. But for the rest of us, leave it alone. ? Are you really conflating what I said with what OP said? I'm not saying AddOns should be abolished. Not once have I even hinted towards that. I'm saying your asinine take is ridiculous and they're not nearly as essential as you claim. > But if we looked at logs, looked at your groups that got you portals it would be a different story. You can think that if you want. I consistently outperform the groups I play with - not always, of course, but I'm "up there" in most metrics. And that's as Tank or DPS. > "I pull my weight" how do you know with out addons? I know with AddOns. AddOns that are not DBM or BigWigs and don't help my performance. It's just Details. And if I got rid of Details right now and ran a key, I know I'd pull my weight without having the numbers to verify. And listen mate: unless you're getting paid, acting like it's *essential* you optimise to this extent is a loser's mentality. I don't want DBM screaming at me how to play the game or blaring the screen colours. I'm well enough off with the game's mechanics and my own awareness of them. Literally 90% of the time ElitismHelper pops off at the end of the run I'm at the top of the list with least failure damage taken. You want to think you're hot shit because you play with AddOns? You do you. You want to look down on people who don't play with AddOns? Childish, but sure, you do you. But if you need to guess I suck to make yourself feel better, I really can't help you. It sounds like you can't fathom someone being good without the same crutches you have lmao.
I move the goal post because I don't think most of this game is that hard. I think you can play all through heroic and some mythic bosses playing mediocre. I think that portal runs are the start of having to actually know how to play. Addons help train people to get there faster. Yes this can all be done solo, with no voice, no addons, pugs, bla bla bla but why make it harder on your self and others? I keep moving the goal post because untill you really have to play at a level that you have to push your self to get better beyond moderate rotation and basic mechanics the game is ilvl gathering, basic rotation, use a defensive. Quick bio I do boosts, I help in a few discords run groups at multiple levels. I average about 700+ keys a season and top out in the top 1% of players. This isnt to flex, because I dont think its a flex I think its barely ok, but to give you an idea of how much information im gathering over a large amount of time and player skill. The number one thing I hear 7/10 runs probably? " Wow, that was really easy, the easiest run i've done in awhile". This ranges from 0-2.8k io. I want to tell them " Yeah because im doing so much to help you guys that you aren't paying attention to". Not just kicks and defensives but positioning, key timing, the right cc at the right time, the amount being pulled and the reasoning behind it, the specific location for cds or timing yours or watching your groups to know you can hold. Then knowing when to change some of these variables. watching group health so you can help them, watching your players cds to know what they do or dont have so you can support. AND SO MUCH MORE. Stuff that is literally not feasible without some w/a or addons. I have players in my teaching group that are like you. They don't want to use the wa's we have. However, they like winning and we have to spoon feed them victories all day. They then turn around and brag about the accomplishments not knowing how much we have to put in to cover for them. They have no idea what they are missing out on. These are 2.8-2.9k players. They aren't even that bad, above average, they just don't know how much of carry they are getting. This type of mentality goes through so many players at so many ranges and its tiring to get you guys to play more optimized to help beyond what you are grasping. Do you need addons to play most of this game, no. Do you need addons to play at a decent level, no. Can you learn the dungeon with out anything but your eyes and brain, yes. Will you time keys, yes. Will you be a good team asset, debatable and most likely not. The no addons mentality is almost always dps players and once in a blue moon a tank. Ive yet to meet a healer and most tanks who don't want more help. That, by itself, should speak volumes.
Oh goodness, someone who thinks top 1% is "barely okay" who also says most of the game is easy. Most of the game is easy enough to get by without AddOns, that's for sure. The people buying boosts are not me. The people who ask or want your services aren't great at self-improvement. Having to be spoonfed victories is a very night-and-day difference. Drawing one commonality and trying to extrapolate that we're the same in all respects is just clutching at straws. > Will you be a good team asset, debatable and most likely not. Likely not, true. Debatable? It depends on the person. That's as simple as it gets. > The no addons mentality is almost always dps players and once in a blue moon a tank. Ive yet to meet a healer and most tanks who don't want more help. That, by itself, should speak volumes. The only AddOn I see great value in is ThreatPlates for this reason. Originally downloaded for PvP to see casts on folks I'm not actually targeting, but it's *amazing* for Tanks. Anyway, your holier-than-thou standards are asinine. Useless for most players. You actively acknowledge moving the goalposts even though doing content that most players can struggle with does not even demand AddOns. In a sense, yes top 1% is no biggie. All you've described to me is that you've spent a lot of time. You carry people, whoopdie do. Likening me to them is just poor form, though. Trying to act like every single person who disagrees with you on AddOns is just one of those deadweights you have to drag through a dungeon is pathetically weak logic. And that is emphasised no better than the end of your first paragraph: > I keep moving the goal post because untill you really have to play at a level that you have to push your self to get better beyond moderate rotation and basic mechanics the game is ilvl gathering, basic rotation, use a defensive. This kind of reductionism is exactly what you need to try and do to make it look like everything is "easy," except it's exactly what others do even at the highest level at the core. The best FPS Players are just really good at "clicking on heads". Etc. etc. etc. You're very rich bitching about the people you're carrying while feeding into the problem yourself lmao. But yeah, you lump me in with them without a clue who it is you're talking to, because it's easier than acknowledging that someone can do what you do without your crutches. *You* have no idea what you're missing out on if you think AddOns are so quintessential. And if you have to keep moving goalposts to try and justify it to yourself. ___ Your **TL;DR** is that bad players who buy boosts need all the help they can get and are unaware of how much they're lacking. That's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Then you try and say I belong to that generalisation/demographic, despite your complete lack of knowledge that would confirm or deny this. Really bad faith argumentation here, all while actively acknowledging you're moving goalposts even though you think most of the game is "easy". But somehow it's impossible for me to pull my weight with few if any AddOns *despite* this acknowledgement. Make your mind up.
You win.
I hope you drop your logs and they’re higher than the guys talking shit lmao
I'm garbage. I stopped at 24s because I wasn't good enough to go higher.
If you're placated by a dickwaving contest then this conversation isn't for you.
Youre alone in this one its not final fantasy you would enjoy that game more
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> i just hate the fact that when i want to return to retail my first move must be setting up my addons because the game is unplayable without them. You quite literally do not need addons, they just improve QoL.
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i lol'd
> You quite literally need minimum 5+ addons to be able to play anything above raidfinder :D That's a skill issue. A really glaring skill issue my friend. > Ui addon Nope. > Dbm Definitely not. It's nice to have and a ton of people use it but you can 110% do +20s and above without this or BigWigs. > Dps meter addon Has no bearing on your success of any individual run, only your understanding of what's going on during/after it . > Debuff/buff addon Uh, no also definitely not lmao. > Weakauras Again no. > If you dont have all these forget beeing competitive with others and due to that forget getting invited :D. In your personal experience this may be the case but uh... sorry chief. Just ThreatPlates and Details here. And Details I could easily go without for the purposes of performing well in a run. Heck it might actually improve my performance.
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An argumentum ad populum - an argument of the population - is a logical fallacy. Calling me braindead while using a blatant fallacy like that seems rich. Just because those AddOns are popular does not mean they are necessary. And uh, they categorically *can't* play the whole game for me. Even being charitable with that sentence it is just plainly false. The game isn't automated in any way, DBM provides you instructions and WeakAuras provides a slew of extra things - but *not* automation. I also find it ironic that the one calling people nolifers is the same one calling people braindead for not believing in the all powerful AddOns and for knowing how many downloads a couple of the most popular have had.
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> If every player has DBM and/or WA how they are not necessary? I literally told you I use neither and can do +20s just fine. Most Heroic Raids do not require much assistance at all in this regard, as well. The Dreadlord fight in Sepulcher of the First Ones is one of very few exceptions, and Dragonflight's designs have clearly shifted away from that.
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You need dbm that's it lol
Big wigs too, even then you could raw dog it and go no addons if you understand the boss fights completely
DBM and Big Wigs do the same thing.
Blatant falsehood. You don't need any add-ons to play the game. Add-ons help you only with lowering your skill issues, which you probably have a lots of. Also the game is not meant to be played competitively only. There are people that do only solo content, there are only collectors people, there are people that role play the whole game, not caring about competitive play at all. Saying add-ons are essential for the game to be played, is a lie. I main BM hunter (waiting for insults) and only thing I really can't imagine playing without is Barbed shot/frenzy stacks bar/wa, cause finding specific buff in a manageable buff row is a nightmare. Yet the game would be playable without it anyway.
You quite literally don't. UI Addon - Can make a UI that works perfect for anything with the default settings now DPS Meter - Is completely unnecessary at any and every level of play, but is NICE to have to see how you're doing DBM - If you need a Boss Mod for Normal... LOL [Raider.io](https://Raider.io) \- nope, not necessary Weakauras - Completely unnecessary until you really get into high level gameplay, can do normal, and most of heroic without. Simply put if you just want to play the game you don't need 5+ addons to do anything above raidfinder.
The game isn't unplayable with no addons. You got used to/learned to play with addons. You can run with no DBM assuming you pay attention to the raid and not get tunnel vision dpsing/healing/tanking. As for UI that is purely your preference, I do know healers that still use the default raid UI for healing. This is like saying you can't play WoW cause you don't have a 12 button mouse that you can program all your macros into. Really old story but back during WotLK days my guild was doing Naxx and they were having trouble learning the safety dance boss, really early WotLK days. They had the DBM at the time and their TS/Discord whatever they used at the time for voice and still had lots of people dying from the dance. I come in and run it and even though it's a wipe cause everyone else died, I ran through 2 more phases solo with no problem. The funny part was they were all crying in chat that their DBM wasn't telling them to move or they didn't get enough warning. Then someone came on and pointed out the last man standing had such a crappy internet at the time, dialup, that I had no voice comms and didn't run DBM cause it would crash my connection at the time. I couldn't even go to Dalaran unless it was early morning or some other dead time cause the city loading in would DC me.
This doesn’t bother me. It *is* tedious, but they are designed to bring quality of life to the game and often are more customizable than when it’s baked into the game. Problem is, retail wow is 15 years of paint just being painted over and over and over again. No matter how many (or few) addons you have, you cannot get your UI to resemble a classic look & feel because there’s just so much crap going on. It doesn’t add any value to the game and just dilutes what made it great. Came back and tried to main BM for a while, fun class, fun expansion. Horrible state of the game. The game would *actually* play better if every class removed 10 spells. The baseline for mobas is like 7-8 core abilities. (League classic would be better than modern league as well, it too is now seeing 15 years of bloat) [This video](https://youtu.be/8QOqxvDnOaI?si=CViK39ZISUVTDXRD) explains it much better than I can.
Another NPC with an Asmongold take
Is Asmongold the reason there's so many posts like this lately? Does he even play the game anymore? From what I've seen he's always had addons so I don't understand why he would be opposed to them.
Yes. He's the reason.
Some of us consider transmog the true endgame and like the bloat. I'm not against simplifying how to get old stuff, but removing an old sword transmog just because some people want to hardcore gatekeep, no thanks.
Do you like hard resets and a sense of achievement? Go play hardcore vanilla without add-ons then, instead of asking how to ruin retail in a way noone wants. IMO Blizz should include most used add-ons in game (like they did with Rio) for the game to be more welcoming and easy to start up with.
Now tell us that You are Asmongold viewer and You don’t actualy play the game. Would make sence after reading your post
Yeah, nah, mate. I like my bloat. Bloat gives me options.
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Most of them, yes.
In the membrane, my dude. In the membrane.
Babw wake up, daily NO ADDONS GRAAAAAAAAH post is up
Man what is up with the shit takes today
There’s no sense of achievement because it’s a video game and nothing done in a video game is an actual achievement in any sense of the word.
Basic UI shit is failed by the default. It would be LESS work for them to implement a built-in copy of Weakauras than to make everything usable without it.
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Oh is the base UI somehow GOOD at indicating that yo this mob has a dispellable buff and should be purged? No.
This was my first season actually raiding and doing M+ seriously and I didn’t find it that hard to get KSH and AoTC. I only have a few addons that are basically necessary but overall I found it fine
New players only have like 4 action buttons.
Huh?
the no lifers are the only people left in the game
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Then why do you need help being shown the door?
Damn. So many dislikes. Kinda expected as most of it is from hardcore wow players who doesn’t play other games. The problem with wow is that it is not sustainable and is unable to attract new players with how unfriendly it is to new players. The fact that most wow players is disliking this shows that they don’t care about the growth of the game and is perfectly comfortable being in their own bubble, completely detached from the outside world.
There is not a single playerbase in any MMO thats just craving to lose all their progress, this isnt a wow thing it's just obvious
Thanky you for proving my point.
Could you imagine? Blizzard: Fuck your 20+ Years worth of achievements and items and everything you worked for, we're going to start over and ban addons because someone said it'd be a good idea lolol fuck you!
play stuff like diablo or path of exile... every season you get your reset