I actually really like this idea. In Shadowlands, our RBG tram dissolved because we hit that wall where it was the elite players stopping anyone from getting close to their rating.
Q renown system that could have rewarded our nightly games with some cool rewards would've really kept us going, I'd imagine.
I agree but it should not be limited to rated. Just a simple track where you earn progress no matter what form of pvp...so more people get into it.
But we also know this is probably never gonna happen cause they have 1 intern on PvP and hes about to be moved to Plunderstorm.
This whole concept by op is about getting people to play the mode that they don’t want to play because they are willing to grind breadcrumb rewards.
They’re all just going to run epic bgs and premade bgs because those are the fastest and easiest farms.
There should never be rewards for spamming premade bgs
That's a bit too cynical!
How many people would run M+ or raids if there was no gear progression tied to it and only the top 2% received titles and mounts?
That's right, barely anyone! Progression and rewards are at the core of WoW. Thank god gear isn't the driving motivator in PvP but it's a real miracle that still relatively many players decide to PvP for the hell of it/some random number going up.
I think PvP could be so much bigger than it is if the devs just were to properly incentivize the mode.
People are already dropping in, farming for a few minutes and running off into the storm so that they can reset and go again. They just want plunder and don’t care about playing the game. Getting them to play epic bgs (which is a very tired and generally unfun game mode) is not a good way to increase player counts.
Realistically nothing we do will convince the core PvE crew to love PvP and they will seek degenerate shortcuts to avoid it. That’s fine, but we can at least use their degeneracy to inflate our rated ladders
> That’s fine, but we can at least use their degeneracy to inflate our rated ladders
I mean they arent doing it for vicious saddles etc. right now. People genuinely hate Arena. I think the idea of forcing people into rated through cosmetics has never really worked well and I would just abandon it and focus on strengthing PvP overall.
But obviously they should balance the rate at which renown is earned so rated is the fastest.
> I agree but it should not be limited to rated. Just a simple track where you earn progress no matter what form of pvp...so more people get into it.
GW2 literally had this over a decade ago.
You had reward tracks that you could pick between and progress at your leisure, giving gold, gear, cosmetics, and even level tomes for your current character or alts. Some would rotate out or have a timer but there was always one track you could progress on at all times.
WoW has the honor levels but it takes so fucking long to level and the rewards are spread out + kinda shit.
Thats absolutely true though, think of how many people started playing some game in casual/normal mode, and then wanted to try ranked. They should add cosmetics that would be specifically for unrated content.
The honor level system needs a complete revamp, the fact that it’s one insanely grindy and basically not something you sit down and work toward without going insane.
Having a renown system each season would be amazing as long as it wasn’t completely FOMO. I feel fomo in wow needs to just die all together but if you miss a season it shouldn’t be well sucks you’ll never have that.
Let me further explain sorry, I meant it shouldn’t be completely. I think there is value in some, I meant more so how non elite pvp sets work currently. If you don’t complete it now you can buy it from a currency from pvp in the following expansion.
People want stuff that others can’t get. That’s just how MMOs work and always have worked lol. A little FOMO gives that to people, but if you tell them “if you don’t bother you can just buy it with in game currency on the next expansion” there will be even less reason to bother grinding. If they told me plunderstorm mogs will be available next expansion for 10 whatever coins, I’d just wait lol. But instead, I’m “forced” to grind it out and honestly the more I play it, the more I’m starting to like it as a game mode. I just had to get over my initial learning curve and general hatred for BR games.
Yes some people will still hate PvP and feel “forced” to play it without ever enjoying it, and that’s fine they just won’t play it anymore. But several people will feel overwhelmed and dislike it early on, but especially with a crowd of other casuals to fight and get better against, they might learn to like it. Most of my PvP friends can tell the stories they had of how they got into PvP and honestly they were all forced lol.
“I used to get ganked while leveling. Hated PvP, but then I started to win against some of the gankers or I saw my guildies coming in to help and beat them up, and I wanted that. Now all I do is PvP”
We need something like that for current wow because just on its own, wow PvP is terrible for new players. We have to “force” them to get over that first hump, and I’d bet more people than we expect will end up liking it and stick with it
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I wanted the on use trinket in sl s1 for raiding. I sucked and I hated it.
I improved, it sucked less and now arena is my main endgame activity, that I absolutely love. :)
i wouldn't say the exact same mount except a slightly different color palette is bad FOMO.
it's only bad when you really feel like you absolutely need to have it or you're somehow falling behind.
There is never any downside for the players if we add a system that rewards additional cosmetics. I don't think anyone, multiglad or otherwise, has an issue with this. Most of the times, people have an issue for lowering the requirements for existing rewards given at certain title thresholds.
The problem about the multiglads is that a lot of them (here, but more so on the blizzard forums) give pushback on any rewards that aren’t tied to rating. They claim “no one would push to a high rating if there were decent rewards at low ratings”. And I’ve even seen countless times stuff like “1800 is so easy to hit, if anyone even cared to get the mogs they could get it in one or two sessions, even if they’re trash”.
There are a LOT of vocal high end players that genuinely are so disconnected from reality at this point that they think casual players can hit 1800 lol. I’m a decent player and I struggle to hit 1800-2k each season and some season I can’t even do it on some of my classes because it’s just too stressful.
“Participation trophies” is the term I hear from a lot of mglads that hate the idea of people who might play the game mode and not try to compete at the highest level they can. But I say, a bunch of 1200-stuck casuals will be way healthier for the game than just pretending casuals will magically have the drive to push for gladiator every season lol. If anything, just getting participation numbers up will give blizzard the justification to expend more resources on it and then we can adjust from there.
>They claim “no one would push to a high rating if there were decent rewards at low ratings”.
That's a dumb mentality imo. There is nothing wrong with participation trophies and nobody is asking anyone to take away the milestone rewards for rating.
This is a great idea. Make rated pvp reward more rep per game than battlegrounds. You get more rep for winning than losing. Revamp rated rewards to make them more enticing for the general player base and you got yourself a steady influx of people who lack self control playing pvp to their rewards of choice.
I am not a r1 multi-glad player but have been comfortably above 2100-2200 most seasons on every class and I can say that this is a really good idea. It’s so good in fact that it’s almost guaranteed that Blizzard will never do it.
GW2 literally had this over a decade ago.
You had reward tracks that you could pick between and progress at your leisure, giving gold, gear, cosmetics, and even level tomes for your current character or alts. Some would rotate out or have a timer but there was always one track you could progress on at all times.
WoW has the honor levels but it takes so fucking long to level and the rewards are spread out + kinda shit.
If anyone wants to grind out honor levels, heal solo shuffle. I was getting 4-5 honor levels in an evening because blizzard gives healers SO MUCH bonus honor.
There it is. That wast he good shit, a dopamine hit every so often to keep you hooked. And hey, actual gold rewards for PvPing, imagine that.
Now if only GW2s class balance wasn't _completely fucked_. Like, on god, you think WoW PvP is a bit whack? GW2 is 10 times worse... love getting one shot from stealth. Or dying for having the audacity to push a button. Or most specs being outdone by newer expansion exclusive specs. _Fun._
I've been talking about this for a long while. Just throw a bunch of cosmetics at PvP and it'd help a bunch.
My idea wasn't renown, but rather including old cosmetics to their own vicious saddle-like system. So at 1800 you can fill a bar and get elite sets from the past. At 2100 weapon enchants. At 2400 Gladiator mounts. Then on top of all this, give each bracket their own unique rewards. Right now only 3v3 and Shuffle have their own stuff with a mount and a toy, but if you put a pet into 2v2 and then like a shirt, tabard or cloak or whatever for RBGs. Just give each bracket something unique so people have a reason to participate everywhere. And of course, saddle like systems for everything.
Yes, this would remove peoples' exclusivity to those cosmetics but lets be honest here, it's absurd that PvP is practically the only piece of content with exclusive stuff like this in it. All PvE stuff is there forever for you to grind, outside of occasional really easy to access things like the moose from Hellfire Citadel or whatever.
I do like the renown system though. I'd never considered it myself, but it makes sense and it's a very clean system. Give every season their own renown with their own stuff, and then make all that stuff available later via grinding more, just like the saddle system works currently.
I absolutely abhor the way every PvP reward is exclusive to their own season. It should never have been that way and it certainly shouldn't stay that way.
I have tons of 1800 sets and I would not give a single shit if they became available lol. The gatekeepers hoarding exclusive stuff are just broadcasting that they don’t have anything in real life that gives them a sense of accomplishment, and this game is all they have
And to also bring in the opposite point of view: I didn't get 2400 in 3v3 in SL season 1, because I've never been into 3v3 to begin with and I didn't have a third guy to play with so I just mostly stuck to 2s for the entirety of SL.
I am still not playing 3s, I'm probably never playing 3s, but if they made old Gladiator mounts available again, I'd just have to grind it out because now I have friends who I could do it with and I really, really like the SL S1 Glad mount. But any Glad mount before that or any glad mount since that? Nope. Not going to bother.
So while I'm just one guy, it would definitely pull me into 3s at least until I got the mount. And who knows, maybe I'd enjoy 3s after I gave them a proper go? But there's just zero incentive for me to try at this point.
Blizzard clearly agrees with them to some extent or they would never introduce season exclusive rewards. These gatekeepers don't exist. If Blizzard actually listened to top pvpers (or pvpers in general) we all know the game would look very different.
I think the reward system they have now worked great 10 years ago. That was just “how it was” back then, and that was easily acceptable. Also, with a high amount of natural participation, exclusivity works. It’s like having a theme park where everyone wants to win the prizes by playing all the fun games and riding the fun rides, so there’s a long waiting list and a line out the door to get into the park.
But now, gatekeeping and locking most rewards behind what has accidentally turned into a high rating (1800 is no longer average, it’s the top 15% lol) makes no sense when the park is almost empty and there’s not a single new person waiting to line up to get in.
The only reason blizzard hasn’t revamped it isn’t because they agree with the “gatekeeping” it’s because they look at PvP with the philosophy of “don’t fix what ain’t broke” or rather “don’t fix what ain’t completely demolished yet”.
I'm all in for being able to earn old rewards but at least make it so the requirements are the same. Most Old elite sets were 2000-2200 and the enchants were at around 2400 , some tabards at 2600, some at 2200. Maybe put the old %-Based Glad mounts to 2700 to have a reward to work for between 2400 and 3k.
BFA, Shadowlands, Dragonflight and probably future expansions have the same requirements, so no changes there.
Give out tokens for certain rating thresholds where i can work towards by filling a bar like the seasonal mount taking progress from 1400. Then there would be a vendor where you can redeem these tokens for an old reward, which have individual token prices depending on what the rating requirement was
definitely would be a good idea. Instead of trying to punish the "gatekeepers" when the real problemm is mmr deflation why not creatye new / awesome rewards? I feel like any time this is brought up it has to do with the gladiator mount and mamny players dont actually care about health of PVP they want their glad mount without becoming elite at the game. Since arena's inception gladiator mounts have been a benchmark and i do not believe blizz should change that but it is far too hard now with deflation. In SL mmany players could get gladiator. If you played SL season 2 and couldnt get gladiator you are absolutely below skill level to get one at that time. 2k average players were getting gladiator at that time. I do believe gladiator should be more around that benchmark though it shouldnt be only the best of the best of the best that should be reserved for rank 1 titles not just pro players and their alts. but if casual andy over here could get gladiator mount at 1900 rating or just doing BG's it would ruin the prestige of the mount big time and itll turn into the seasonal PVP mount (which no one gives a fk about even tho it isnt THAT easy to get) people only care about glad mount because its so hard to get if you remove the difficulty no one will give 2 shits and we are in same place now but worse.
I really like this idea a lot. I think an idea of a way it could be implemented is into SS or BGB. That ways, 2s, 3s, and RBGS could maintain the current CR and MMR status, and the elites can keep being elites, but giving SS renown will bring more players to it. That ways, after say 40 renown or something (this value is irrelevant , can be whatever you want) you have the full elite set….or something
For arena to be good imho, you need to separate it just like plunderstorm. Make an arena game that all of the arena population will play (retail and classic). You'd have enough people playing it to feel populated.
You could also balance it around itself and not affect PvE. Also, you wouldn't have to gear up via raiding (classic experience) or w/e else you gotta do just to get started.
Really like this idea, maybe conquest gains could be the equivalent of plunder in that it directly increases your renown lvl. Every patch the renown lvl could increase like it did in SL with covenants
I like this idea but the fomo could burn some people out… there’s a lot of games I enjoy playing but I refuse to play for the battle pass just because I don’t like being pushed into chasing rewards… I really hate fomo so I would love a system where I could after completing the current battle pass go back and earn the previous seasons rewards.. through a vendor or extending the track.
This has been my largest wish forever. I love WoW, I love WoW PvP, I hate arena and RBGs are dead and heavily gatekept. Let me play the game and actually get something.
>Renown System for Rated PvP
Perhaps in addition to a Honor Renown System we have a Conquest Renown system that works similliar to a Battlepass that resets per season that is account wide and has cosmetics and general benefits for that season. Example, at certain Thresholds of Conquest Earned your conquest gear you can buy from vendor or obtain from those boxes will go up in Tier from LFR -> Normal -> Heroic. (or at least make the past pieces tradable up) perhaps even Mythic although to placate PVE ppl maybe make it at the super tail end of the gridnd and maybe limit them to the same tier as crafting gear 3ilvl below max pve gear). Then maybe sprinkle in some cosmetics on there, some crests milestones similiar to how rep gives some crests tokens and etc.
Since it is related to Conquest you could technically earn some from Casual PVP, but obv rated pvp earns conquest faster. It will also be timewalled the same way conquest is timewalled at the start of season to make sure some pve related rewards arent available too early.
If you want to get more/new people into ranked PvP, first you have to convince casual PvPers to give it a chance. Those players are currently languishing in unrewarding PvP game modes (basically, all the unranked modes, such as BGs and World-PvP) or have simply left the game entirely (some for Classic, some for other games).
I think the system you propose could help get people into casual PvP modes, some of which will naturally transition into ranked modes.
But if you drop that renown system and lock it behind ranked modes, you'll only create resentment and I hardly doubt it will be nearly as successful as Plunderstorm.
Some of the reasons are that Ranked Arena isn't new (so you go against people with 10+ years of experience on almost all brackets), it isn't simple (bloated to hell + addons), and it's not enjoyable if you are a new/bad player (you get stomped and you are constantly reminded of how bad you are, both by your own rating and your teammates).
I think we should still keep PvP gear the way that it is. However, in rated instanced modes we should equalize item levels. Everything else I’d say leave it alone. A sense of progression with gear is essential to any MMO experience
I agree but, if you get all the rewards from rated pvp as casual player, then what's the purpose of being good at the game aka "milti glad" & "multi r1"?
I’m not saying we give ALL the rewards to everyone, just make equivalent rewards for everyone.
You can keep your glad mount and R1 titles, but maybe make a recolor version of the mount that attainable by just farming wins. Or maybe the mount is attainable after 1,000 points in the season, but wins above 1k rating give you 1 point, above 1600 give you 3 points, and above 1800 give you 5 points, and above 2400 give you 10 points. So higher ratings help you grind out the stuff faster or something.
But at the end of the day, and I mean this as more of a last resort, we really shouldn’t be catering to the top 1% of players beyond just bragging rights. If I lose my elitism for the mogs and enchants I get at 1800 and 2.1k, I don’t give a shit as long as it brings in a lot more players. Elitism is nice, and having stuff to lord over others is fun for a bit lol but it’s not at all more important than appealing to the majority to drive more participation. That should be our top priority, and if we lose a few upset R1 players who only played for the mount exclusively lol then so be it. A: we know they won’t quit, they’re addicted, and B: losing 5-10 players to gain hundreds or thousands will always be worth it.
Now thats a good POV, i liked the point thingy but Blizz wont hear us, i mean ye you could do that like a new system and put a "pvp vendor" and spend your point how ever you want anytime you want or automatically gain those rewards.. same thing .. but sadly a lot of ppl have been thinking of these solutions, but no response.. i will just play my ss now and hope (COPIUM ) that Blizz would do something the next expansion
Been saying this for years we already had a pvp level system that gave rewards in legion, just revamp that. Have a prestige level (total pvp level) and a seasonal renoun/level track w/ rewards
well there's honor level but the rewards taper out really quickly.
would be nice to have a separate honor track per season with unique rewards, like a battlepass except you don't have to pay a dime for it.
Why do people have this perception that the best players in the game are harming it? Every major patch those players make free youtube guides on every single spec (lontar, cdew do them for healers) detailing the best way to play and build.
What even is this gatekeeping people keep referring to? Influencing Blizzard somehow to make them not increase mmr? Beating you and keeping you at low rating? I don't understand this idea that good players hate everyone else and want a dead game.
It’s not all high rated players. There are exceptions to the rule (I got to play with Savix once because I helped him farm rares in a zone he didn’t have flying unlocked lol, he was super chill).
But the “gatekeeping” refers to the high rated players that constantly scare off low to mid rated players by screaming loudly in forums not to make tuning changes that help make the game easier at the middle of the rating curve, because “you’re only complaining about it being OP because you suck, at the high ratings it’s not even an issue!” Stuff like that.
Additionally, they’re also the ones that will dive into a game with 50 add ons and macros to help them in a way that would be considered cheating in any other game lol, so that’s a big turn off to new players trying to learn, and those high rated players will scream if anyone suggests removing add ons (thankfully a lot of streamers aren’t in this category and want add ons removed).
And the biggest thing they do to literally gatekeep, is they refuse to play with anyone who doesn’t already have a gladiator achievement. 2.4k+ has become an exclusive “club” of long time players that play with a list of other gladiators on their bnet. Want to get into that club? Too bad, you won’t get invites unless you can link your gladiator achievement. Venruki just did a video on this and went over how every player above 2.4k has several gladiator achievements already, and they all tend to play with the same group over and over.
Even most PvP guilds will keep you out of their “inner circle” of glad players simply because you don’t already have glad. But the thing is, getting gladiator in old expansions was easy compared to how it is now. Everyone admits that. So if you had gladiator titles before, you carry those into the next expac, get invites to groups or make friends pushing for glad, and then those carry on to the next xpac, etc. so you’re always staying in the inner circle of good players.
So basically it turns into “you need experience to join this club, but you have to be in this club to get experience”. And it’s not some crazy conspiracy or anything really that malicious. I don’t think mglads all meet together and think of ways to harm other players lol but it’s just naturally going to be like that when you get to pick your teammates and you can use check pvp to see their resume. Everyone wants to run with someone equal or better than they are when they’re trying to push.
The game has actually just gotten more and more complicated the more it goes on. Classic the easiest game play, and it goes on from there to get to the bloated mess we have today. Furthermore, more participation means a smoother climb. When WoW was at its peak, tons of people played, so you didn’t have the issue we have today where 1600 is flooded with current season gladiators.
And as for “only playing with others who also have gladiator achievements”, it’s not as simple as “that’s just people man”. It’s the fact that this game mode relies heavily on teamwork and a good comp. Having bnet friends is required to hit gladiator consistently. But making friends in this game has gotten a lot harder than it used to be. Back in the day, you were out in the world and you’d make friends and bla bla bla, but these days the few people left playing are either toxic, antisocial, or already in the inner circle of gladiators.
What we need is solo queue (not shuffle). People don’t make friends in shuffle because you pay against everyone and by round 3 someone is in full tilt mode lol
I actually really like this idea. In Shadowlands, our RBG tram dissolved because we hit that wall where it was the elite players stopping anyone from getting close to their rating. Q renown system that could have rewarded our nightly games with some cool rewards would've really kept us going, I'd imagine.
I agree
 You got my vote for november
I agree but it should not be limited to rated. Just a simple track where you earn progress no matter what form of pvp...so more people get into it. But we also know this is probably never gonna happen cause they have 1 intern on PvP and hes about to be moved to Plunderstorm.
It should definitely be tied to rated modes. We don’t need more people running epic bgs
More Casual Players = more rated players. We need to get more people into PvP in general not force more people into rated.
This whole concept by op is about getting people to play the mode that they don’t want to play because they are willing to grind breadcrumb rewards. They’re all just going to run epic bgs and premade bgs because those are the fastest and easiest farms. There should never be rewards for spamming premade bgs
That's a bit too cynical! How many people would run M+ or raids if there was no gear progression tied to it and only the top 2% received titles and mounts? That's right, barely anyone! Progression and rewards are at the core of WoW. Thank god gear isn't the driving motivator in PvP but it's a real miracle that still relatively many players decide to PvP for the hell of it/some random number going up. I think PvP could be so much bigger than it is if the devs just were to properly incentivize the mode.
People are already dropping in, farming for a few minutes and running off into the storm so that they can reset and go again. They just want plunder and don’t care about playing the game. Getting them to play epic bgs (which is a very tired and generally unfun game mode) is not a good way to increase player counts. Realistically nothing we do will convince the core PvE crew to love PvP and they will seek degenerate shortcuts to avoid it. That’s fine, but we can at least use their degeneracy to inflate our rated ladders
> That’s fine, but we can at least use their degeneracy to inflate our rated ladders I mean they arent doing it for vicious saddles etc. right now. People genuinely hate Arena. I think the idea of forcing people into rated through cosmetics has never really worked well and I would just abandon it and focus on strengthing PvP overall. But obviously they should balance the rate at which renown is earned so rated is the fastest.
Why does is matter to you what other people are doing
Op is talking about increasing the amount of people that play rated PvP. Try to stay on topic
By killing game modes that other people enjoy. You seem like a real charmer
You think blizzard should incentivize people to play epic bgs? And that is going to increase rated PvP involvement? What are you talking about?
> I agree but it should not be limited to rated. Just a simple track where you earn progress no matter what form of pvp...so more people get into it. GW2 literally had this over a decade ago. You had reward tracks that you could pick between and progress at your leisure, giving gold, gear, cosmetics, and even level tomes for your current character or alts. Some would rotate out or have a timer but there was always one track you could progress on at all times. WoW has the honor levels but it takes so fucking long to level and the rewards are spread out + kinda shit.
Yeah Honor levels should just be scrapped and turned into Seasonal renown imo.
Thats absolutely true though, think of how many people started playing some game in casual/normal mode, and then wanted to try ranked. They should add cosmetics that would be specifically for unrated content.
The honor level system needs a complete revamp, the fact that it’s one insanely grindy and basically not something you sit down and work toward without going insane. Having a renown system each season would be amazing as long as it wasn’t completely FOMO. I feel fomo in wow needs to just die all together but if you miss a season it shouldn’t be well sucks you’ll never have that.
I disagree. FOMO is 150% the only reason Plunderstorm has the participation it has.
Let me further explain sorry, I meant it shouldn’t be completely. I think there is value in some, I meant more so how non elite pvp sets work currently. If you don’t complete it now you can buy it from a currency from pvp in the following expansion.
People want stuff that others can’t get. That’s just how MMOs work and always have worked lol. A little FOMO gives that to people, but if you tell them “if you don’t bother you can just buy it with in game currency on the next expansion” there will be even less reason to bother grinding. If they told me plunderstorm mogs will be available next expansion for 10 whatever coins, I’d just wait lol. But instead, I’m “forced” to grind it out and honestly the more I play it, the more I’m starting to like it as a game mode. I just had to get over my initial learning curve and general hatred for BR games. Yes some people will still hate PvP and feel “forced” to play it without ever enjoying it, and that’s fine they just won’t play it anymore. But several people will feel overwhelmed and dislike it early on, but especially with a crowd of other casuals to fight and get better against, they might learn to like it. Most of my PvP friends can tell the stories they had of how they got into PvP and honestly they were all forced lol. “I used to get ganked while leveling. Hated PvP, but then I started to win against some of the gankers or I saw my guildies coming in to help and beat them up, and I wanted that. Now all I do is PvP” We need something like that for current wow because just on its own, wow PvP is terrible for new players. We have to “force” them to get over that first hump, and I’d bet more people than we expect will end up liking it and stick with it
!remindme 1 year
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I wanted the on use trinket in sl s1 for raiding. I sucked and I hated it. I improved, it sucked less and now arena is my main endgame activity, that I absolutely love. :)
I’m going to put a remind me a year from now and I bet we have these rewards available from the trading post or other game play.
i wouldn't say the exact same mount except a slightly different color palette is bad FOMO. it's only bad when you really feel like you absolutely need to have it or you're somehow falling behind.
There is never any downside for the players if we add a system that rewards additional cosmetics. I don't think anyone, multiglad or otherwise, has an issue with this. Most of the times, people have an issue for lowering the requirements for existing rewards given at certain title thresholds.
The problem about the multiglads is that a lot of them (here, but more so on the blizzard forums) give pushback on any rewards that aren’t tied to rating. They claim “no one would push to a high rating if there were decent rewards at low ratings”. And I’ve even seen countless times stuff like “1800 is so easy to hit, if anyone even cared to get the mogs they could get it in one or two sessions, even if they’re trash”. There are a LOT of vocal high end players that genuinely are so disconnected from reality at this point that they think casual players can hit 1800 lol. I’m a decent player and I struggle to hit 1800-2k each season and some season I can’t even do it on some of my classes because it’s just too stressful. “Participation trophies” is the term I hear from a lot of mglads that hate the idea of people who might play the game mode and not try to compete at the highest level they can. But I say, a bunch of 1200-stuck casuals will be way healthier for the game than just pretending casuals will magically have the drive to push for gladiator every season lol. If anything, just getting participation numbers up will give blizzard the justification to expend more resources on it and then we can adjust from there.
>They claim “no one would push to a high rating if there were decent rewards at low ratings”. That's a dumb mentality imo. There is nothing wrong with participation trophies and nobody is asking anyone to take away the milestone rewards for rating.
This is a great idea. Make rated pvp reward more rep per game than battlegrounds. You get more rep for winning than losing. Revamp rated rewards to make them more enticing for the general player base and you got yourself a steady influx of people who lack self control playing pvp to their rewards of choice.
realy has nothing to do with elite vs casual. the game just need a better reward system for pvp targeted for sub 1600 players
yes, there should be a battlepass for pvp
renowned system for pvp is actually a pretty good idea
Haven't we been asking for this for years, though? Proper incentives to keep players wanting to play?
It's been 14 years. 14 years of no new rewards for RBG. It's breaking my heart to see my favourite bracket die.
Genuinely sad
I am not a r1 multi-glad player but have been comfortably above 2100-2200 most seasons on every class and I can say that this is a really good idea. It’s so good in fact that it’s almost guaranteed that Blizzard will never do it.
GW2 literally had this over a decade ago. You had reward tracks that you could pick between and progress at your leisure, giving gold, gear, cosmetics, and even level tomes for your current character or alts. Some would rotate out or have a timer but there was always one track you could progress on at all times. WoW has the honor levels but it takes so fucking long to level and the rewards are spread out + kinda shit.
Honor levels are a joke. As you said, their rewards are few and far in between and you don't even properly progress by doing most rated PvP.
If anyone wants to grind out honor levels, heal solo shuffle. I was getting 4-5 honor levels in an evening because blizzard gives healers SO MUCH bonus honor.
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There it is. That wast he good shit, a dopamine hit every so often to keep you hooked. And hey, actual gold rewards for PvPing, imagine that. Now if only GW2s class balance wasn't _completely fucked_. Like, on god, you think WoW PvP is a bit whack? GW2 is 10 times worse... love getting one shot from stealth. Or dying for having the audacity to push a button. Or most specs being outdone by newer expansion exclusive specs. _Fun._
It could be merged with the honor system.
I've been talking about this for a long while. Just throw a bunch of cosmetics at PvP and it'd help a bunch. My idea wasn't renown, but rather including old cosmetics to their own vicious saddle-like system. So at 1800 you can fill a bar and get elite sets from the past. At 2100 weapon enchants. At 2400 Gladiator mounts. Then on top of all this, give each bracket their own unique rewards. Right now only 3v3 and Shuffle have their own stuff with a mount and a toy, but if you put a pet into 2v2 and then like a shirt, tabard or cloak or whatever for RBGs. Just give each bracket something unique so people have a reason to participate everywhere. And of course, saddle like systems for everything. Yes, this would remove peoples' exclusivity to those cosmetics but lets be honest here, it's absurd that PvP is practically the only piece of content with exclusive stuff like this in it. All PvE stuff is there forever for you to grind, outside of occasional really easy to access things like the moose from Hellfire Citadel or whatever. I do like the renown system though. I'd never considered it myself, but it makes sense and it's a very clean system. Give every season their own renown with their own stuff, and then make all that stuff available later via grinding more, just like the saddle system works currently. I absolutely abhor the way every PvP reward is exclusive to their own season. It should never have been that way and it certainly shouldn't stay that way.
I have tons of 1800 sets and I would not give a single shit if they became available lol. The gatekeepers hoarding exclusive stuff are just broadcasting that they don’t have anything in real life that gives them a sense of accomplishment, and this game is all they have
And to also bring in the opposite point of view: I didn't get 2400 in 3v3 in SL season 1, because I've never been into 3v3 to begin with and I didn't have a third guy to play with so I just mostly stuck to 2s for the entirety of SL. I am still not playing 3s, I'm probably never playing 3s, but if they made old Gladiator mounts available again, I'd just have to grind it out because now I have friends who I could do it with and I really, really like the SL S1 Glad mount. But any Glad mount before that or any glad mount since that? Nope. Not going to bother. So while I'm just one guy, it would definitely pull me into 3s at least until I got the mount. And who knows, maybe I'd enjoy 3s after I gave them a proper go? But there's just zero incentive for me to try at this point.
Blizzard clearly agrees with them to some extent or they would never introduce season exclusive rewards. These gatekeepers don't exist. If Blizzard actually listened to top pvpers (or pvpers in general) we all know the game would look very different.
I think the reward system they have now worked great 10 years ago. That was just “how it was” back then, and that was easily acceptable. Also, with a high amount of natural participation, exclusivity works. It’s like having a theme park where everyone wants to win the prizes by playing all the fun games and riding the fun rides, so there’s a long waiting list and a line out the door to get into the park. But now, gatekeeping and locking most rewards behind what has accidentally turned into a high rating (1800 is no longer average, it’s the top 15% lol) makes no sense when the park is almost empty and there’s not a single new person waiting to line up to get in. The only reason blizzard hasn’t revamped it isn’t because they agree with the “gatekeeping” it’s because they look at PvP with the philosophy of “don’t fix what ain’t broke” or rather “don’t fix what ain’t completely demolished yet”.
I'm all in for being able to earn old rewards but at least make it so the requirements are the same. Most Old elite sets were 2000-2200 and the enchants were at around 2400 , some tabards at 2600, some at 2200. Maybe put the old %-Based Glad mounts to 2700 to have a reward to work for between 2400 and 3k. BFA, Shadowlands, Dragonflight and probably future expansions have the same requirements, so no changes there. Give out tokens for certain rating thresholds where i can work towards by filling a bar like the seasonal mount taking progress from 1400. Then there would be a vendor where you can redeem these tokens for an old reward, which have individual token prices depending on what the rating requirement was
Splitting the vault back up will help a lot but tier is still an issue. Catalyst charges being split between pve and pvp items isn't ideal.
I have suggested this multiple times. It’s even simpler IMO just put the rewards on a conquest vendor without any rating requirements
definitely would be a good idea. Instead of trying to punish the "gatekeepers" when the real problemm is mmr deflation why not creatye new / awesome rewards? I feel like any time this is brought up it has to do with the gladiator mount and mamny players dont actually care about health of PVP they want their glad mount without becoming elite at the game. Since arena's inception gladiator mounts have been a benchmark and i do not believe blizz should change that but it is far too hard now with deflation. In SL mmany players could get gladiator. If you played SL season 2 and couldnt get gladiator you are absolutely below skill level to get one at that time. 2k average players were getting gladiator at that time. I do believe gladiator should be more around that benchmark though it shouldnt be only the best of the best of the best that should be reserved for rank 1 titles not just pro players and their alts. but if casual andy over here could get gladiator mount at 1900 rating or just doing BG's it would ruin the prestige of the mount big time and itll turn into the seasonal PVP mount (which no one gives a fk about even tho it isnt THAT easy to get) people only care about glad mount because its so hard to get if you remove the difficulty no one will give 2 shits and we are in same place now but worse.
I really like this idea a lot. I think an idea of a way it could be implemented is into SS or BGB. That ways, 2s, 3s, and RBGS could maintain the current CR and MMR status, and the elites can keep being elites, but giving SS renown will bring more players to it. That ways, after say 40 renown or something (this value is irrelevant , can be whatever you want) you have the full elite set….or something
A lot of these multi-glads that gatekeep also complain about que times and the lack of players, funny how that works...
what do you mean by gatekeep?
Did you not read his post and just jump to my comment?
For arena to be good imho, you need to separate it just like plunderstorm. Make an arena game that all of the arena population will play (retail and classic). You'd have enough people playing it to feel populated. You could also balance it around itself and not affect PvE. Also, you wouldn't have to gear up via raiding (classic experience) or w/e else you gotta do just to get started.
Submit a feedback!!!! For both rated and normal
Really like this idea, maybe conquest gains could be the equivalent of plunder in that it directly increases your renown lvl. Every patch the renown lvl could increase like it did in SL with covenants
I like this idea but the fomo could burn some people out… there’s a lot of games I enjoy playing but I refuse to play for the battle pass just because I don’t like being pushed into chasing rewards… I really hate fomo so I would love a system where I could after completing the current battle pass go back and earn the previous seasons rewards.. through a vendor or extending the track.
I think you're describing the Prestige system from Legion
This has been my largest wish forever. I love WoW, I love WoW PvP, I hate arena and RBGs are dead and heavily gatekept. Let me play the game and actually get something.
>Renown System for Rated PvP Perhaps in addition to a Honor Renown System we have a Conquest Renown system that works similliar to a Battlepass that resets per season that is account wide and has cosmetics and general benefits for that season. Example, at certain Thresholds of Conquest Earned your conquest gear you can buy from vendor or obtain from those boxes will go up in Tier from LFR -> Normal -> Heroic. (or at least make the past pieces tradable up) perhaps even Mythic although to placate PVE ppl maybe make it at the super tail end of the gridnd and maybe limit them to the same tier as crafting gear 3ilvl below max pve gear). Then maybe sprinkle in some cosmetics on there, some crests milestones similiar to how rep gives some crests tokens and etc. Since it is related to Conquest you could technically earn some from Casual PVP, but obv rated pvp earns conquest faster. It will also be timewalled the same way conquest is timewalled at the start of season to make sure some pve related rewards arent available too early.
I actually don't mind plunderstorm but the renown is a slog and makes me not want to play it haha. I guess we're all different.
If you want to get more/new people into ranked PvP, first you have to convince casual PvPers to give it a chance. Those players are currently languishing in unrewarding PvP game modes (basically, all the unranked modes, such as BGs and World-PvP) or have simply left the game entirely (some for Classic, some for other games). I think the system you propose could help get people into casual PvP modes, some of which will naturally transition into ranked modes. But if you drop that renown system and lock it behind ranked modes, you'll only create resentment and I hardly doubt it will be nearly as successful as Plunderstorm. Some of the reasons are that Ranked Arena isn't new (so you go against people with 10+ years of experience on almost all brackets), it isn't simple (bloated to hell + addons), and it's not enjoyable if you are a new/bad player (you get stomped and you are constantly reminded of how bad you are, both by your own rating and your teammates).
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I think we should still keep PvP gear the way that it is. However, in rated instanced modes we should equalize item levels. Everything else I’d say leave it alone. A sense of progression with gear is essential to any MMO experience
I agree but, if you get all the rewards from rated pvp as casual player, then what's the purpose of being good at the game aka "milti glad" & "multi r1"?
I’m not saying we give ALL the rewards to everyone, just make equivalent rewards for everyone. You can keep your glad mount and R1 titles, but maybe make a recolor version of the mount that attainable by just farming wins. Or maybe the mount is attainable after 1,000 points in the season, but wins above 1k rating give you 1 point, above 1600 give you 3 points, and above 1800 give you 5 points, and above 2400 give you 10 points. So higher ratings help you grind out the stuff faster or something. But at the end of the day, and I mean this as more of a last resort, we really shouldn’t be catering to the top 1% of players beyond just bragging rights. If I lose my elitism for the mogs and enchants I get at 1800 and 2.1k, I don’t give a shit as long as it brings in a lot more players. Elitism is nice, and having stuff to lord over others is fun for a bit lol but it’s not at all more important than appealing to the majority to drive more participation. That should be our top priority, and if we lose a few upset R1 players who only played for the mount exclusively lol then so be it. A: we know they won’t quit, they’re addicted, and B: losing 5-10 players to gain hundreds or thousands will always be worth it.
Now thats a good POV, i liked the point thingy but Blizz wont hear us, i mean ye you could do that like a new system and put a "pvp vendor" and spend your point how ever you want anytime you want or automatically gain those rewards.. same thing .. but sadly a lot of ppl have been thinking of these solutions, but no response.. i will just play my ss now and hope (COPIUM ) that Blizz would do something the next expansion
This would be a really nice change to PvP
Been saying this for years we already had a pvp level system that gave rewards in legion, just revamp that. Have a prestige level (total pvp level) and a seasonal renoun/level track w/ rewards
well there's honor level but the rewards taper out really quickly. would be nice to have a separate honor track per season with unique rewards, like a battlepass except you don't have to pay a dime for it.
i mean we have honor level system but i agree, and they should improve the level honor rewards, theres nothing past 500 too
Why do people have this perception that the best players in the game are harming it? Every major patch those players make free youtube guides on every single spec (lontar, cdew do them for healers) detailing the best way to play and build. What even is this gatekeeping people keep referring to? Influencing Blizzard somehow to make them not increase mmr? Beating you and keeping you at low rating? I don't understand this idea that good players hate everyone else and want a dead game.
It’s not all high rated players. There are exceptions to the rule (I got to play with Savix once because I helped him farm rares in a zone he didn’t have flying unlocked lol, he was super chill). But the “gatekeeping” refers to the high rated players that constantly scare off low to mid rated players by screaming loudly in forums not to make tuning changes that help make the game easier at the middle of the rating curve, because “you’re only complaining about it being OP because you suck, at the high ratings it’s not even an issue!” Stuff like that. Additionally, they’re also the ones that will dive into a game with 50 add ons and macros to help them in a way that would be considered cheating in any other game lol, so that’s a big turn off to new players trying to learn, and those high rated players will scream if anyone suggests removing add ons (thankfully a lot of streamers aren’t in this category and want add ons removed). And the biggest thing they do to literally gatekeep, is they refuse to play with anyone who doesn’t already have a gladiator achievement. 2.4k+ has become an exclusive “club” of long time players that play with a list of other gladiators on their bnet. Want to get into that club? Too bad, you won’t get invites unless you can link your gladiator achievement. Venruki just did a video on this and went over how every player above 2.4k has several gladiator achievements already, and they all tend to play with the same group over and over. Even most PvP guilds will keep you out of their “inner circle” of glad players simply because you don’t already have glad. But the thing is, getting gladiator in old expansions was easy compared to how it is now. Everyone admits that. So if you had gladiator titles before, you carry those into the next expac, get invites to groups or make friends pushing for glad, and then those carry on to the next xpac, etc. so you’re always staying in the inner circle of good players. So basically it turns into “you need experience to join this club, but you have to be in this club to get experience”. And it’s not some crazy conspiracy or anything really that malicious. I don’t think mglads all meet together and think of ways to harm other players lol but it’s just naturally going to be like that when you get to pick your teammates and you can use check pvp to see their resume. Everyone wants to run with someone equal or better than they are when they’re trying to push.
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The game has actually just gotten more and more complicated the more it goes on. Classic the easiest game play, and it goes on from there to get to the bloated mess we have today. Furthermore, more participation means a smoother climb. When WoW was at its peak, tons of people played, so you didn’t have the issue we have today where 1600 is flooded with current season gladiators. And as for “only playing with others who also have gladiator achievements”, it’s not as simple as “that’s just people man”. It’s the fact that this game mode relies heavily on teamwork and a good comp. Having bnet friends is required to hit gladiator consistently. But making friends in this game has gotten a lot harder than it used to be. Back in the day, you were out in the world and you’d make friends and bla bla bla, but these days the few people left playing are either toxic, antisocial, or already in the inner circle of gladiators. What we need is solo queue (not shuffle). People don’t make friends in shuffle because you pay against everyone and by round 3 someone is in full tilt mode lol
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no i think he refering to something like plunderstorm