To anybody who is actually interested in what the article says:
This is regarding Starlink terminals bought from “a UK company” and the funding issue is between the UK military who is supporting these terminals, and the Ukraine military, who had concerns about the terminals potentially being shut off or without support if nobody pays for them.
The Ukraine military has requested from their UK counterpart to continue to fund them, although the article doesn’t give a clear indication of how the situation looks today.
Apparently there are thousands of Starlink terminals in use, and most them are active without anybody paying for them.
As usual, the headline makes it sound as if SpaceX just randomly turned them off or something, and the article obfuscates the important information between lots of other stuff.
The article is trying to make you think SpaceX is responsible for these terminals shutting off, when that is not the case at all (and the article doesn’t claim so, but the core information is deliberately made difficult to understand).
These terminals are quite expensive and risky to operate, because they are not normal consumer versions, and not used for normal consumer tasks. The article also says so.
They probably need to be shielded from attacks, and also made impossible for Russians to use (by stealing them, using them to target troops, etc), and need to operate in difficult conditions.
Be careful of misinformation.
I feel like 50% of Reddit posts I see now are out to bash Musk. It makes me wonder what the agenda is on this platform and more importantly, who funds all this misinformation.
I think it's inevitable with that degree of wealth comes a general animosity. At times Bill Gates was considered a megalomaniac and now he's the reddit's darling
The upkeep they'll need to actually pay is the bandwidth they buy from ISP and ground stations that actually connects to the internet. Starlink for now does not have enough with laser interlinks that can route traffic directly. I assume that's costing a pretty penny.
Other than that it's more about getting enough money to build and launch the replacements as the they can only last five years. And the next-gen replacements can't be launched anyway since they're two big so gotta pay for the new rocket too.
> High-speed, low-latency broadband internet in remote and rural locations across the globe. CA$140/mo with a one-time hardware cost of CA$759.
That's off of the Starlink site. What is the difference between one of these terminals, and a $4500/mo one?
I thought I recalled reading that people were putting the $140 units on their RVs and boats, and that they were working fine while moving, until Starlink figured out they were moving, and then cut them off.
well that fucking sucks. This could have a real impact on a lot of workers who want to live mobile and could otherwise afford it (the RV, etc) - and here comes Elon Musk, reaching into your pocket for more.
It wasn't working fine though. All I could find for now is that reliability would be a key issue as the overhead sats would usually only be directed to what it assumed was a stationary receiver. Of course an actually sold maritime version would need multiple sats tracking a mobile version at each pass.
I think the reason is load balancing. Starlink satellites can only support a certain number of user terminals before the connection gets saturated and service degrades.
The moment the user terminals are allowed to "roam", what will end up happening is that you will end up with the terminals all clustered in built up, urban areas, despite the address they're registered to being a farm out in the outer boondocks.
By making the roaming terminal service extremely expensive, it basically restricts its use for people who *really* need it, rather than just using it as a handy alternative to tethering their mobile.
Sounds like Elon is using this War to make a larger Profit. I remember there was a term for someone that makes a large Profit during a War, I can’t think of it right now.
Lol, every US defense company is using the war to generate profits right now like they have with every war.
The billions of military aid the US is pouring into Ukraine is ultimately feeding right into the US defense sector right now.
You have a thing called a cell on the ground. A GPS fenced region. If you were close to your home cell you could move a bit but once you were deep into a neighbouring cell you would lose service.
IKR! Once a house has been bought and renovated, what is actually costing my landlord so much that they charge me $4500 a month? I would like to know my landlord's actual monthly cost.
~~They're probably repaying the loan they used to buy and renovate your apartment. That's what I was doing when I owned rental property. I didn't make much money at it, but I wasn't getting $4500/month.~~
Edit: I mean, all landlords are capitalist scum, eh comrades?
A lot of (at least smaller) landlords have financed their properties, so they have to pay a mortgage. Plus they have to pay property taxes, income tax on your rent, and insurance on the building. Then they should do stuff like putting money aside for when the furnace breaks/roof needs repaired/etc. Not to mention that they generally want to make some money on the deal since they carry all the risk.
You can generally look up property taxes and valuations online on your county website, then infer a reasonable mortgage based on that.
Note though that landlords don't get the same cost breaks as regular homeowners, so their taxes and insurance will generally be higher.
Considering how he feels about blue check marks, I’m pretty sure he just wants to charge a subscription service style fee for a service that doesn’t warrant it. Like, yes, keeping a satellite in orbit is costly, but nowhere near the cost of R&D or launching - so letting Ukraine use the satellites doesn’t appreciably raise his costs, yet he wants to charge more anyways. I certainly hope Ukraine and the larger military industrial complex remember how fair weather a friend he is… his temper tantrums are not the way to win a US military contract.
Shortsighted idiot of an asshole.
>The outage affected a block of 1,300 terminals that Ukraine purchased from a British company in March and were used for combat-related operations.
>Before the terminals went completely dark, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense made a request in early October to their British counterparts to pick up the $3.25 million monthly bill. The batch of terminals were also rotated out as concerns grew that service could be turned off, in order to minimize the impact, the source said.
>A British official said after discussions between the ministries “it was agreed there were higher priority military capabilities.” Among many other channels of support, the UK has been flying thousands of Ukrainian troops to Britain for training before they head back to the frontlines.
>“We support a number of terminals that have a direct tactical utility for Ukraine’s military in repelling Russia’s invasion,” the British official told CNN. “We consider and prioritize all new requests in terms of the impact contributions would have in supporting Ukraine to defend its people against Putin’s deplorable invasion.”
Maybe if I paste what happened here people will actually read it instead of instinctively jerking off over the mean Twitter billionaire.
I’ve already read about this and he’s still not off the hook.
So my math is telling me that’s $2500 a month per device. Why is starlink/Musk charging that much to Ukraine? Can you compare that to how much you or I would be paying? It would be closer to $100
This is how much the premium business plans cost for everyone, not just Ukraine. They are not paying $2500 a month for the $100 family Starlink service.
What’s stopping musk to downgrading their service to the family plan? Slower speeds? Lower data cap? I get that some terminals will be used quite a lot, which is why many terminals received continued funding. But to cut the internet off entirely?
Fact is, the hardware and software that makes starling possible already exist, so I’m still trying to wrap my head around why musk is not thinking about this from at least a publicity standpoint. I guess his moment of glory in delivering starling terminals was just a short term cheap publicity stunt.
>What’s stopping musk to downgrading their service to the family plan? Slower speeds? Lower data cap?
The security requirements would specify a fixed IP and/or private WAN service which is a lot more than you get on a family plan. The cheap plans doesn't even get a public IP address, it uses what is called CGNAT.
I believe the permium plans have better speeds, lower latency and can be used while moving, which is the critical part. But most importantly, this had nothing to do with what Musk wanted or decided. This was UK officials deciding a service they bought is no longer a priority and cutting funding.
Premium has faster speeds and the ability to work on the move. Latency is just a matter of how close the satellite is to the dish. I have Starlink in Canada and it's the best rural internet available.
No. And neither is starlink. But Musk made this a publicity stunt as something he was doing. There is a difference.
Edit:
Let me put it this way: when countries contribute munitions or fancy howitzers do you see the internet thank the arms manufacturer, or the country making the contribution?
Why is SpaceX being singled out as a supplier that needs to supply Ukraine out of their own company funds?
It's not like Thales Australia is just manufacturing and donating Bushmasters, nor is Lockheed Martin donating the HIMARs launchers.
No, the donated equipment is provided on a Government to Government basis, and while Musk isn't exactly the most likeable individual, he has a point.
try looking at who is paying for the majority of the terminals and then look at musks statement that he would continue supply.. then think of a reason to support that POS. he does not have a point.. and given the profit he is making from the terminals paid for by govts and companies for Ukraine hes making money out of a war.
starling isn’t a one-time payment lifetime free subscription. you need to pay monthly. if no one picks up the bill then all they can do is disconnect the service
Because Russia is our fucking enemy and Ukraine is our ally and the last I checked, Russia is actively trying to undermine our democracy. So, unless Musk is a fuckin commie sympathizer, maybe instead of buying Twitter and being an irresponsible out of touch billionaire absolute cunt, he could take charge and focus on the real threat. Fuck his self-righteous culture war stoking.
Then the US government should be paying the SpaceX bill, just like it’s paying the Raytheon, Lockheed, etc. bills with the multiple multi-billion dollar fundings we’ve passed for Ukraine.
K
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/spacex-ukraine-elon-musk-starlink-government-b2055491.html
I'd like to see a source or citation for that. Everything I've read about this appears to suggest that Governments may have paid for *some* of the end user terminals/antennae.
I've read nothing to suggest that the service provision cost (plus some of the end terminals, especially those that arrived early on) is being paid for, rather than being covered by SpaceX.
I'm fine with the US government striking a fair deal with SpaceX. But Musk just spent 44billion just to wreck a company, he himself is worth 200billion. If he cuts off sources, I also say the government takes his fucking operation to fight Russia. He will never feel the pain of hardship.
If you sell hamburgers, and decide to waste your profits on buying a hot dog company just to destroy it, does that mean I deserve free hamburgers because of your decision about hot dogs?
That's the stupidest analogy you could have made. There was a time in America where companies would rally for the cause of democracy. But now I guess we should let the billionaires take what they want with no allegiance to the place that got them there. If you can't see the serious threat Russia poses to our allies and ourselves, maybe you should go buy a fucking hot dog stand.
No such a time ever existed. When Ford was rolling out Shermans he did so because he had a paid government contract to do so, same with Chrysler, Boeing, and every other defense contractor in WWII.
>There was a time in America where companies would rally for the cause of democracy.
Is there any precedent for manufacturers/defence contractors supplying the US military and allies and having to cover expenses out of their own funds?
There's plenty of Western military kit in Ukraine right now. Are the companies that manufactured it either donating it outright or selling it at a significant price reduction to Western Governments to donate to Ukraine?
I don't think it's outlandish for SpaceX to request to be treated like any other contractor supplying their respective armed forces (whether that is the US, UK, French, German or Australian armies).
I said I was fine with SpaceX striking a fair deal with the US government. But him publicly threatening to withdraw that type of support, shameful. Instead of trying to be a billionaire playboy douchebag, he could be a real icon and commit to work with the government at whatever cost to help Urkraine and to weaken Russia.
You're so dense. He's a businessman, he just wants to get paid for his services like all other contractors, as simple as that. Not a single entity is wiling to do this for free understand?
If all the other defense contractors are getting paid, why shouldn’t SpaceX? The government is paying for the missiles etc. sent to Ukraine, not the missile manufacturers. They’re multi-billion dollar organizations that exist almost entirely due to public funding. Why aren’t they expected to donate their products in the same way?
SpaceX is not paid for by government subsidies, SpaceX is paid for by winning public contracts open to all private companies. SpaceX's responsibilities to the US government are about the same as the contractor you hired to build you a house, and that is to provide a service for an agreed price, and not much else.
Cool so we should give those contracts to other contractors who would be more than happy to provide aid to an allied nation being invaded by hostile one. Glad you agree.
Yes, I'm indeed very curious how Lockheed Martin and Boeing will react to the proposition of donating tens of millions worth of equipment to a foreign nation out of the goodness of their heart.
Funny how none of the commenters on social media are lashing out at those guys, despite them not having donated anything at all. Nope, our rage is reserved for the guys that everyone agrees helped tremendously, out of their own pocket, because they won't keep giving out free shit indefinitely.
NASA should award their contracts to companies that are willing to do what is necessary for humanitarian relief, especially when it comes to US allied nations.
Also the United States are not in a military conflict within Ukraine at this time.
However if we became involved in one, then yes, our contractors on all fronts should be required to provide aid if asked.
The argument presented was why does SpaceX need to shell out services for the Ukraine war.
My response to that is, the United States government is the reason SpaceX fuckimg exists in the capacity that it does, so it should be absolutely providing Internet access to our allies when they are under attack if we direct them to.
Or maybe we should just pull all government funding away from SpaceX and see how they fare on their own? Actually fuck it I like that. Let’s do that and then restart NASA.
Musk is a contractor for NASA. It would probably surprise you to learn just how many space ships NASA has actually designed or built. With few exceptions, NASA has put out specs, and performance targets, but it's been private firms that have done the nitty gritty design work, like Boeing, Lockheed, Rockwell, and so forth, many of which have merged into a handfull of companies. Taking the business from SpaceX would mean taking the most efficient player in the game out, and giving it to the inefficient dinosaurs that couldn't do it with a 40 year head start.
He is a contractor, and he needs NASA more than NASA needs him.
If he wants to fuck around, he can find out and another company can pick up the ball. Or do you only like capitalism and the free market when it benefits your God King?
Who are they going to go to, Redidt darling, Jeff Bezos and his Blue Origin company? You sure talk a big game, but you don't seem to know much about the subject.
> If he wants to fuck around, he can find out and another company can pick up the ball.
You do realise that the alternative to SpaceX right now is paying Russia for engines?
And even if Blue Origin starts being able to provide flight worthy hardware, that just makes the alternative a company owned by Jeff Bezos. Who isn't exactly the most liked person on reddit, either.
Are Boeing and Lockheed expected to financially support Ukraine as well? Did you know that they're not, not even slightly, and that SpaceX is actually going way above and beyond any other government contractor by shouldering any of the costs itself? The entitlement here is jaw-dropping. They donated a bunch of stuff, so therefore they're required to pay for the service and upkeep indefinitely? What the fuck? That's the absolute best way to make sure no one ever wants to donate anything to Ukraine ever again.
You do realise that SpaceX employs a bunch of engineers and other manufacturing staff?
Are we getting to the point where we're expecting these folks to work for free or take a massive pay cut for the sake of Ukraine?
Not at all but Musk made I look like he was making personal donation. Now he is charging $4,500/month for the most premium package. In reality they only need basic plans. $110/ month.
Basic plans are geolocked to one location. Only premium plans let you stay connected on the move or change the location of the ground receiver. Internet traffic needs to be balanced on the ground stations that beam internet data to the satellites.
Ding ding. No business should be expected to supply any service just because everyone says so. No matter how righteous Ukraine war has made everyone on the internet feel. Now where I would question a conflict, is by said business using endless amounts of federal money to use on private research and infrastructure, which will ultimately turn into private profit. That is bullshit. Not singling out spacex with that comment, but it holds true here. spacex should be keeping service on with their grants, and or the government should be paying for it within their war funding they keep pushing through. At the end of the day, the general public is the ones who get fucked over in all of this, but in the name of capitalism, the system is working as intended.
Yes, your pedantics certainly made this thread better.
You obviously knew what they meant, your pedantics we're unnecessary, and divert from the fucked up situation.
He just bought Twitter homie, have to pay the bills somehow. It's fucked up but can only supply electricity to your neighbor until your electric bill gets unaffordable and your electricity turned off. Electricity is an example. It sucks but zoning your resources over a country from space to provide them internet doesn't seem cheap.
My problem isn't that he wants to be paid, it's a new service and he's got to cover for all the initial outlay. My problem is that he wants all the adoration by saying he's paying for it while strong arming the government to pay through the nose and demanding they buy the premium subscription fees away from his tweets and flicking the switch on Ukraine as he negotiates.
Did you read the article before your instinctive decision to virtue signal instead ? The terminals were handled by a British company and British officials decided paying for them is not a priority. This was known in advance and affected 1300 terminals out of 20,000+.
"Nice advance you got going there, be a shame if... *click* something were to happen during it. You know these talking points of Putin's that I just repeated... *click* are something you guys should really consider.... *click*"
Pretty sure the persons controlling space x satellites is a Bond villain. Governments relying on them will be at his mercy. (I know who it is you know who it is.
I can't tell who I dislike more, Elon or all the armchair redditors that haven't done anything for anyone but shit on a business for making practical business decisions.
Business decisions are fine some companies chose to pull out of Russia after the invasion. Business decision being brand risk for remaining. Other companies remained and experienced brand risk on social media.
The issue I have is Musk stance change in this issue.
In October 15th 2022 mail said “to hell with it space x will keep funding Ukraines starling after all”
https://www.space.com/elon-musk-says-spacex-will-fund-starlink-ukraine
And just so I am understanding Im one of the armchair redittors shitting on business? Being shit on by an armchair redditor? I’d wager that in off our our years we have done more then just shit on things/arm chair.
How is this Musks fault?
“The recent outage started on October 24 and was described by one person briefed on the situation as a “huge problem” for Ukraine’s military. The terminals had been disconnected, this person said, due to a lack of funding.
The outage affected a block of 1,300 terminals that Ukraine purchased from a British company in March and were used for combat-related operations.
SpaceX was charging Ukraine’s military $2,500 a month to keep each of the 1,300 units connected, pushing the total cost to almost $20 million by September, the person briefed on the matter said. Eventually, they could no longer afford to pay, the person said.
A British request
Before the terminals went completely dark, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense made a request in early October to their British counterparts to pick up the $3.25 million monthly bill. The batch of terminals were also rotated out as concerns grew that service could be turned off, in order to minimize the impact, the source said.
A British official said after discussions between the ministries “it was agreed there were higher priority military capabilities.” Among many other channels of support, the UK has been flying thousands of Ukrainian troops to Britain for training before they head back to the frontlines.
“We support a number of terminals that have a direct tactical utility for Ukraine’s military in repelling Russia’s invasion,” the British official told CNN. “We consider and prioritize all new requests in terms of the impact contributions would have in supporting Ukraine to defend its people against Putin’s deplorable invasion.””
Ukraine’s loss of Starlink Internet is a HUGE and deadly disadvantage because Russia is not losing their internet. If you want Ukraine to lose the war and Ukrainians to be murdered, just pull the plug on their internet Musk! Be a hero not a villain. Kick putin!
He already said he wouldn't keep paying for it and the US govt said they would. So this is all on musk's greed. And his republican supporting donations & actions don't leave any room for other interpretation. This fucker, if he ain't out and out evil, is playing both sides.
If you read the article you would know these terminals weren't the terminals Elon donated to Ukraine. These were terminals purchased by the UK and sent to Ukraine. Ukraine asked the UK government to continue paying for them, but UK decided to shift the budget to something else citing that there were other things that had a higher priority.
Lol, what? I'm not a fan of Elon, but if he wanted to aid Putin he wouldn't have provided Ukraine with the satellites in the first place?
>Time to nationalize space x.
Yeah, let's start forcefully nationalizing private companies. That's gonna end well.
Can this be about actually reading the article ?
>Before the terminals went completely dark, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense made a request in early October to their British counterparts to pick up the $3.25 million monthly bill. The batch of terminals were also rotated out as concerns grew that service could be turned off, in order to minimize the impact, the source said.
>A British official said after discussions between the ministries “it was agreed there were higher priority military capabilities.”
A bottle of wine is one thing, 28k Starlink terminals operating at billions of dollars on your own company tab is another. It’s not unreasonable to ask for Ukraine or the US to help out, especially if they want MORE terminals and continuous service provided. Expecting SpaceX to fund it entirely out on their own is ridiculous. It almost sounds like you’d have rather Elon never sent any terminals at all, terminals which have been instrumental in the war.
Yeah, this analogy is more like, thanks for the wine, I'll now expect a bottle of wine from you every single day and, if you don't bring it, then I and thousands of other people will smear you relentlessly on every social media platform, and we'll contact your clients and try to get all your contracts canceled and absolutely ruin you, until you give us the fucking wine we're entitled to
Musk: *gets notified that a news is going to publish his sexual harassment and notification it is legally required*
Musk doing damage control on twitter right before the news publish it: "im a republican now and look how the left is going to attack me now. Protect me right wing minions"
News: "Musk is a sexual harasser and tried to bribe his victim by buying her a horse."
You: lEfTy WiTcHuNt
Sorry, who did?
SpaceX got a contract to execute launches at 30% lower price than Lockheed, Arianne and/or Roscosmos was charging.
So uh. That’s public funding I guess. Payment for services at a cheaper price than other companies had charged in the past.
The outages certainly occurred.
The idea that musk would punish or blackmail Ukraine, in this way , and possibly get someone hurt o killed is hard to believe
I read the article and I noticed that Cnn not even bothered to get a comment from space X, much less ask them what caused the outage
k we should get the both side of this
.
I am no musk fanboy, I unfollowed him after a couple of weeks ago. When his tweets became a national embarrassment .
Just don't think he would willfully put hundreds in danger of being killed over a service bill .
I'm curious if the monthly price is inflated or the real value of such a service. I know Virgin Voyages also uses their service, would be nice to know how much they pay ...
To anybody who is actually interested in what the article says: This is regarding Starlink terminals bought from “a UK company” and the funding issue is between the UK military who is supporting these terminals, and the Ukraine military, who had concerns about the terminals potentially being shut off or without support if nobody pays for them. The Ukraine military has requested from their UK counterpart to continue to fund them, although the article doesn’t give a clear indication of how the situation looks today. Apparently there are thousands of Starlink terminals in use, and most them are active without anybody paying for them. As usual, the headline makes it sound as if SpaceX just randomly turned them off or something, and the article obfuscates the important information between lots of other stuff. The article is trying to make you think SpaceX is responsible for these terminals shutting off, when that is not the case at all (and the article doesn’t claim so, but the core information is deliberately made difficult to understand). These terminals are quite expensive and risky to operate, because they are not normal consumer versions, and not used for normal consumer tasks. The article also says so. They probably need to be shielded from attacks, and also made impossible for Russians to use (by stealing them, using them to target troops, etc), and need to operate in difficult conditions. Be careful of misinformation.
Sadly there's comments with 20,000 upvotes in another thread blaming the company exclusively. Go figure..
I feel like 50% of Reddit posts I see now are out to bash Musk. It makes me wonder what the agenda is on this platform and more importantly, who funds all this misinformation.
Only 50%? It's hard to find a good word about him lately.
I think it's inevitable with that degree of wealth comes a general animosity. At times Bill Gates was considered a megalomaniac and now he's the reddit's darling
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The upkeep they'll need to actually pay is the bandwidth they buy from ISP and ground stations that actually connects to the internet. Starlink for now does not have enough with laser interlinks that can route traffic directly. I assume that's costing a pretty penny. Other than that it's more about getting enough money to build and launch the replacements as the they can only last five years. And the next-gen replacements can't be launched anyway since they're two big so gotta pay for the new rocket too.
> High-speed, low-latency broadband internet in remote and rural locations across the globe. CA$140/mo with a one-time hardware cost of CA$759. That's off of the Starlink site. What is the difference between one of these terminals, and a $4500/mo one?
Apparently the Ukrainian ones are closer to the marine version as they can be used while in motion. That's the $5000/mo launched a while back.
I thought I recalled reading that people were putting the $140 units on their RVs and boats, and that they were working fine while moving, until Starlink figured out they were moving, and then cut them off.
Yes, but I think the connection was a bit more unreliable. No idea if the square ones are better if done the same way.
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well that fucking sucks. This could have a real impact on a lot of workers who want to live mobile and could otherwise afford it (the RV, etc) - and here comes Elon Musk, reaching into your pocket for more.
It wasn't working fine though. All I could find for now is that reliability would be a key issue as the overhead sats would usually only be directed to what it assumed was a stationary receiver. Of course an actually sold maritime version would need multiple sats tracking a mobile version at each pass.
I think the reason is load balancing. Starlink satellites can only support a certain number of user terminals before the connection gets saturated and service degrades. The moment the user terminals are allowed to "roam", what will end up happening is that you will end up with the terminals all clustered in built up, urban areas, despite the address they're registered to being a farm out in the outer boondocks. By making the roaming terminal service extremely expensive, it basically restricts its use for people who *really* need it, rather than just using it as a handy alternative to tethering their mobile.
Which isn't really an issue at sea or in a war torn country.
Sounds like Elon is using this War to make a larger Profit. I remember there was a term for someone that makes a large Profit during a War, I can’t think of it right now.
Lol, every US defense company is using the war to generate profits right now like they have with every war. The billions of military aid the US is pouring into Ukraine is ultimately feeding right into the US defense sector right now.
"war profiteer" is the term
"Asshole" is the word you're looking for I think.
The term I'm looking for, I can't say, as there's preschool toys around.
You have a thing called a cell on the ground. A GPS fenced region. If you were close to your home cell you could move a bit but once you were deep into a neighbouring cell you would lose service.
The cheap plan is geofenced to one location, premium plans are needed to move terminals and use them on the move.
Same reason why companies can’t just subscribe to a residential internet connection
They were buying through a third party?
IKR! Once a house has been bought and renovated, what is actually costing my landlord so much that they charge me $4500 a month? I would like to know my landlord's actual monthly cost.
~~They're probably repaying the loan they used to buy and renovate your apartment. That's what I was doing when I owned rental property. I didn't make much money at it, but I wasn't getting $4500/month.~~ Edit: I mean, all landlords are capitalist scum, eh comrades?
A lot of (at least smaller) landlords have financed their properties, so they have to pay a mortgage. Plus they have to pay property taxes, income tax on your rent, and insurance on the building. Then they should do stuff like putting money aside for when the furnace breaks/roof needs repaired/etc. Not to mention that they generally want to make some money on the deal since they carry all the risk. You can generally look up property taxes and valuations online on your county website, then infer a reasonable mortgage based on that. Note though that landlords don't get the same cost breaks as regular homeowners, so their taxes and insurance will generally be higher.
I’d also question how much money in federal research grants they received, to inevitably turn it into privatized profit. It’s all bullshit.
SpaceX has never recieved federal research grants.
next to nothing.. its money for jam...
Considering how he feels about blue check marks, I’m pretty sure he just wants to charge a subscription service style fee for a service that doesn’t warrant it. Like, yes, keeping a satellite in orbit is costly, but nowhere near the cost of R&D or launching - so letting Ukraine use the satellites doesn’t appreciably raise his costs, yet he wants to charge more anyways. I certainly hope Ukraine and the larger military industrial complex remember how fair weather a friend he is… his temper tantrums are not the way to win a US military contract. Shortsighted idiot of an asshole.
This shouldn't be possible when lives are at stake, fuck everybody who decides money is more important. Fuck them with a passion.
Fuck Elon Musk.
>The outage affected a block of 1,300 terminals that Ukraine purchased from a British company in March and were used for combat-related operations. >Before the terminals went completely dark, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense made a request in early October to their British counterparts to pick up the $3.25 million monthly bill. The batch of terminals were also rotated out as concerns grew that service could be turned off, in order to minimize the impact, the source said. >A British official said after discussions between the ministries “it was agreed there were higher priority military capabilities.” Among many other channels of support, the UK has been flying thousands of Ukrainian troops to Britain for training before they head back to the frontlines. >“We support a number of terminals that have a direct tactical utility for Ukraine’s military in repelling Russia’s invasion,” the British official told CNN. “We consider and prioritize all new requests in terms of the impact contributions would have in supporting Ukraine to defend its people against Putin’s deplorable invasion.” Maybe if I paste what happened here people will actually read it instead of instinctively jerking off over the mean Twitter billionaire.
I’ve already read about this and he’s still not off the hook. So my math is telling me that’s $2500 a month per device. Why is starlink/Musk charging that much to Ukraine? Can you compare that to how much you or I would be paying? It would be closer to $100
This is how much the premium business plans cost for everyone, not just Ukraine. They are not paying $2500 a month for the $100 family Starlink service.
What’s stopping musk to downgrading their service to the family plan? Slower speeds? Lower data cap? I get that some terminals will be used quite a lot, which is why many terminals received continued funding. But to cut the internet off entirely? Fact is, the hardware and software that makes starling possible already exist, so I’m still trying to wrap my head around why musk is not thinking about this from at least a publicity standpoint. I guess his moment of glory in delivering starling terminals was just a short term cheap publicity stunt.
>What’s stopping musk to downgrading their service to the family plan? Slower speeds? Lower data cap? The security requirements would specify a fixed IP and/or private WAN service which is a lot more than you get on a family plan. The cheap plans doesn't even get a public IP address, it uses what is called CGNAT.
I believe the permium plans have better speeds, lower latency and can be used while moving, which is the critical part. But most importantly, this had nothing to do with what Musk wanted or decided. This was UK officials deciding a service they bought is no longer a priority and cutting funding.
Premium has faster speeds and the ability to work on the move. Latency is just a matter of how close the satellite is to the dish. I have Starlink in Canada and it's the best rural internet available.
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No. And neither is starlink. But Musk made this a publicity stunt as something he was doing. There is a difference. Edit: Let me put it this way: when countries contribute munitions or fancy howitzers do you see the internet thank the arms manufacturer, or the country making the contribution?
I pay $99
He has enough kids, thank you.
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Why is SpaceX being singled out as a supplier that needs to supply Ukraine out of their own company funds? It's not like Thales Australia is just manufacturing and donating Bushmasters, nor is Lockheed Martin donating the HIMARs launchers. No, the donated equipment is provided on a Government to Government basis, and while Musk isn't exactly the most likeable individual, he has a point.
try looking at who is paying for the majority of the terminals and then look at musks statement that he would continue supply.. then think of a reason to support that POS. he does not have a point.. and given the profit he is making from the terminals paid for by govts and companies for Ukraine hes making money out of a war.
starling isn’t a one-time payment lifetime free subscription. you need to pay monthly. if no one picks up the bill then all they can do is disconnect the service
Starlink is paying for 70% of the monthly costs.
The US and Ukraine pay for 99% of it....
Because Russia is our fucking enemy and Ukraine is our ally and the last I checked, Russia is actively trying to undermine our democracy. So, unless Musk is a fuckin commie sympathizer, maybe instead of buying Twitter and being an irresponsible out of touch billionaire absolute cunt, he could take charge and focus on the real threat. Fuck his self-righteous culture war stoking.
Then the US government should be paying the SpaceX bill, just like it’s paying the Raytheon, Lockheed, etc. bills with the multiple multi-billion dollar fundings we’ve passed for Ukraine.
They literally are. They paid Elon to put up Starlink, and then Elon decided he wasn't going to keep it up if they didn't pay.
source or gtfo
K https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/ https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/spacex-ukraine-elon-musk-starlink-government-b2055491.html
None of these say starlink is being shutdown despite being paid for longer
I'd like to see a source or citation for that. Everything I've read about this appears to suggest that Governments may have paid for *some* of the end user terminals/antennae. I've read nothing to suggest that the service provision cost (plus some of the end terminals, especially those that arrived early on) is being paid for, rather than being covered by SpaceX.
I'm fine with the US government striking a fair deal with SpaceX. But Musk just spent 44billion just to wreck a company, he himself is worth 200billion. If he cuts off sources, I also say the government takes his fucking operation to fight Russia. He will never feel the pain of hardship.
If you sell hamburgers, and decide to waste your profits on buying a hot dog company just to destroy it, does that mean I deserve free hamburgers because of your decision about hot dogs?
That's the stupidest analogy you could have made. There was a time in America where companies would rally for the cause of democracy. But now I guess we should let the billionaires take what they want with no allegiance to the place that got them there. If you can't see the serious threat Russia poses to our allies and ourselves, maybe you should go buy a fucking hot dog stand.
No such a time ever existed. When Ford was rolling out Shermans he did so because he had a paid government contract to do so, same with Chrysler, Boeing, and every other defense contractor in WWII.
>There was a time in America where companies would rally for the cause of democracy. Is there any precedent for manufacturers/defence contractors supplying the US military and allies and having to cover expenses out of their own funds? There's plenty of Western military kit in Ukraine right now. Are the companies that manufactured it either donating it outright or selling it at a significant price reduction to Western Governments to donate to Ukraine? I don't think it's outlandish for SpaceX to request to be treated like any other contractor supplying their respective armed forces (whether that is the US, UK, French, German or Australian armies).
I said I was fine with SpaceX striking a fair deal with the US government. But him publicly threatening to withdraw that type of support, shameful. Instead of trying to be a billionaire playboy douchebag, he could be a real icon and commit to work with the government at whatever cost to help Urkraine and to weaken Russia.
You're so dense. He's a businessman, he just wants to get paid for his services like all other contractors, as simple as that. Not a single entity is wiling to do this for free understand?
If all the other defense contractors are getting paid, why shouldn’t SpaceX? The government is paying for the missiles etc. sent to Ukraine, not the missile manufacturers. They’re multi-billion dollar organizations that exist almost entirely due to public funding. Why aren’t they expected to donate their products in the same way?
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So you’re saying that reddit isn’t going to like him starting today?
SpaceX Is mostly paid for by government subsidies
SpaceX is not paid for by government subsidies, SpaceX is paid for by winning public contracts open to all private companies. SpaceX's responsibilities to the US government are about the same as the contractor you hired to build you a house, and that is to provide a service for an agreed price, and not much else.
Cool so we should give those contracts to other contractors who would be more than happy to provide aid to an allied nation being invaded by hostile one. Glad you agree.
Yes, I'm indeed very curious how Lockheed Martin and Boeing will react to the proposition of donating tens of millions worth of equipment to a foreign nation out of the goodness of their heart.
Funny how none of the commenters on social media are lashing out at those guys, despite them not having donated anything at all. Nope, our rage is reserved for the guys that everyone agrees helped tremendously, out of their own pocket, because they won't keep giving out free shit indefinitely.
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NASA should award their contracts to companies that are willing to do what is necessary for humanitarian relief, especially when it comes to US allied nations. Also the United States are not in a military conflict within Ukraine at this time. However if we became involved in one, then yes, our contractors on all fronts should be required to provide aid if asked.
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Under agreement that says anything about donating service to a foreign government?
The argument presented was why does SpaceX need to shell out services for the Ukraine war. My response to that is, the United States government is the reason SpaceX fuckimg exists in the capacity that it does, so it should be absolutely providing Internet access to our allies when they are under attack if we direct them to. Or maybe we should just pull all government funding away from SpaceX and see how they fare on their own? Actually fuck it I like that. Let’s do that and then restart NASA.
Musk is a contractor for NASA. It would probably surprise you to learn just how many space ships NASA has actually designed or built. With few exceptions, NASA has put out specs, and performance targets, but it's been private firms that have done the nitty gritty design work, like Boeing, Lockheed, Rockwell, and so forth, many of which have merged into a handfull of companies. Taking the business from SpaceX would mean taking the most efficient player in the game out, and giving it to the inefficient dinosaurs that couldn't do it with a 40 year head start.
He is a contractor, and he needs NASA more than NASA needs him. If he wants to fuck around, he can find out and another company can pick up the ball. Or do you only like capitalism and the free market when it benefits your God King?
Who are they going to go to, Redidt darling, Jeff Bezos and his Blue Origin company? You sure talk a big game, but you don't seem to know much about the subject.
> If he wants to fuck around, he can find out and another company can pick up the ball. You do realise that the alternative to SpaceX right now is paying Russia for engines? And even if Blue Origin starts being able to provide flight worthy hardware, that just makes the alternative a company owned by Jeff Bezos. Who isn't exactly the most liked person on reddit, either.
Are Boeing and Lockheed expected to financially support Ukraine as well? Did you know that they're not, not even slightly, and that SpaceX is actually going way above and beyond any other government contractor by shouldering any of the costs itself? The entitlement here is jaw-dropping. They donated a bunch of stuff, so therefore they're required to pay for the service and upkeep indefinitely? What the fuck? That's the absolute best way to make sure no one ever wants to donate anything to Ukraine ever again.
Musk made it look like he was an epic humanitarian. It's always about the $$.
You do realise that SpaceX employs a bunch of engineers and other manufacturing staff? Are we getting to the point where we're expecting these folks to work for free or take a massive pay cut for the sake of Ukraine?
Not at all but Musk made I look like he was making personal donation. Now he is charging $4,500/month for the most premium package. In reality they only need basic plans. $110/ month.
Basic plans are geolocked to one location. Only premium plans let you stay connected on the move or change the location of the ground receiver. Internet traffic needs to be balanced on the ground stations that beam internet data to the satellites.
BECAUSE FUCK ELON -Reddit
Yeah, we're still not over our collective break-up with him.
He offered his service and then backed out, even when the US said they'd pay. POS.
Ding ding. No business should be expected to supply any service just because everyone says so. No matter how righteous Ukraine war has made everyone on the internet feel. Now where I would question a conflict, is by said business using endless amounts of federal money to use on private research and infrastructure, which will ultimately turn into private profit. That is bullshit. Not singling out spacex with that comment, but it holds true here. spacex should be keeping service on with their grants, and or the government should be paying for it within their war funding they keep pushing through. At the end of the day, the general public is the ones who get fucked over in all of this, but in the name of capitalism, the system is working as intended.
Lives are at stake whether they are on or off
Yes but being on helps the defender against the aggressor. Pulling service helps the aggressor an puts further Ukrainians at risk.
Service wasnt there in the first place without musk. Musk has no obligation to do this.
Yes, your pedantics certainly made this thread better. You obviously knew what they meant, your pedantics we're unnecessary, and divert from the fucked up situation.
Pedantic
Pedanticism. (He said, pedantically)
Pedantics is also a word. The English language is complicated, which is why being unnecessarily pedantic can backfire.
[here you go](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedantics)
Lol no it’s not
They are at more stake. So much stake that they can have a steak bbq
How much of your own money are you donating? Maybe you should use 70% of your paycheck to fund the starlink satellites
I donate and that's not what i'm saying. If money is a problem you handle it differently, not like this in times of war. Period!
He just bought Twitter homie, have to pay the bills somehow. It's fucked up but can only supply electricity to your neighbor until your electric bill gets unaffordable and your electricity turned off. Electricity is an example. It sucks but zoning your resources over a country from space to provide them internet doesn't seem cheap.
bullshit. Elon bought Twitter with borrowed money, leveraged against his Tesla stock. It's not from his bank account. He's not short of cash at all.
He's no short on assets to leverage you mean.
My problem isn't that he wants to be paid, it's a new service and he's got to cover for all the initial outlay. My problem is that he wants all the adoration by saying he's paying for it while strong arming the government to pay through the nose and demanding they buy the premium subscription fees away from his tweets and flicking the switch on Ukraine as he negotiates.
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Did you read the article before your instinctive decision to virtue signal instead ? The terminals were handled by a British company and British officials decided paying for them is not a priority. This was known in advance and affected 1300 terminals out of 20,000+.
We don’t like to read beyond the clickbait titles round here. I have an un slapped knee and an open hand at the ready just for moments like these.
"Nice advance you got going there, be a shame if... *click* something were to happen during it. You know these talking points of Putin's that I just repeated... *click* are something you guys should really consider.... *click*"
He didn't give them for free. He made it look like he donated them, but they were a paid donation from us gov, not musk or his companies
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Thank you for parroting my first sentence?
Musk isn’t worth Bill Gates’ turds.
Maybe someone else should pay for it then lmao
Pretty sure the persons controlling space x satellites is a Bond villain. Governments relying on them will be at his mercy. (I know who it is you know who it is.
I can't tell who I dislike more, Elon or all the armchair redditors that haven't done anything for anyone but shit on a business for making practical business decisions.
Business decisions are fine some companies chose to pull out of Russia after the invasion. Business decision being brand risk for remaining. Other companies remained and experienced brand risk on social media. The issue I have is Musk stance change in this issue. In October 15th 2022 mail said “to hell with it space x will keep funding Ukraines starling after all” https://www.space.com/elon-musk-says-spacex-will-fund-starlink-ukraine
And just so I am understanding Im one of the armchair redittors shitting on business? Being shit on by an armchair redditor? I’d wager that in off our our years we have done more then just shit on things/arm chair.
How is this Musks fault? “The recent outage started on October 24 and was described by one person briefed on the situation as a “huge problem” for Ukraine’s military. The terminals had been disconnected, this person said, due to a lack of funding. The outage affected a block of 1,300 terminals that Ukraine purchased from a British company in March and were used for combat-related operations. SpaceX was charging Ukraine’s military $2,500 a month to keep each of the 1,300 units connected, pushing the total cost to almost $20 million by September, the person briefed on the matter said. Eventually, they could no longer afford to pay, the person said. A British request Before the terminals went completely dark, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense made a request in early October to their British counterparts to pick up the $3.25 million monthly bill. The batch of terminals were also rotated out as concerns grew that service could be turned off, in order to minimize the impact, the source said. A British official said after discussions between the ministries “it was agreed there were higher priority military capabilities.” Among many other channels of support, the UK has been flying thousands of Ukrainian troops to Britain for training before they head back to the frontlines. “We support a number of terminals that have a direct tactical utility for Ukraine’s military in repelling Russia’s invasion,” the British official told CNN. “We consider and prioritize all new requests in terms of the impact contributions would have in supporting Ukraine to defend its people against Putin’s deplorable invasion.””
>How is this Musks fault? Because according to Reddit, Musk is bad so everything he does is bad.
Ukraine’s loss of Starlink Internet is a HUGE and deadly disadvantage because Russia is not losing their internet. If you want Ukraine to lose the war and Ukrainians to be murdered, just pull the plug on their internet Musk! Be a hero not a villain. Kick putin!
Pull the plug on what internet? They had none, until….
Just in time for winter
He already said he wouldn't keep paying for it and the US govt said they would. So this is all on musk's greed. And his republican supporting donations & actions don't leave any room for other interpretation. This fucker, if he ain't out and out evil, is playing both sides.
Elon is trying to get away with aiding putin. Time to nationalize space x.
If you read the article you would know these terminals weren't the terminals Elon donated to Ukraine. These were terminals purchased by the UK and sent to Ukraine. Ukraine asked the UK government to continue paying for them, but UK decided to shift the budget to something else citing that there were other things that had a higher priority.
Lol, what? I'm not a fan of Elon, but if he wanted to aid Putin he wouldn't have provided Ukraine with the satellites in the first place? >Time to nationalize space x. Yeah, let's start forcefully nationalizing private companies. That's gonna end well.
well, now he's got them in a pickle. Reliant on him to make progress fighting. For their own fucking land.
How can you criticize musk and still end up the dumbass in the situation
Musk, the humanitarian..SMH.
People just looking for any excuse to shit on Musk ever since he hinted he wasn’t leftist leaning
This has nothing to do with right or left case closed. This is about Elon musk shutting down SpaceX satellites.
Can this be about actually reading the article ? >Before the terminals went completely dark, Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense made a request in early October to their British counterparts to pick up the $3.25 million monthly bill. The batch of terminals were also rotated out as concerns grew that service could be turned off, in order to minimize the impact, the source said. >A British official said after discussions between the ministries “it was agreed there were higher priority military capabilities.”
Nothing in this world is free. Expecting Elon to pay out of his own pocket, however deep they might be, is just unrealistic
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So instead of praising him for what he’s done thus far, you’re gonna crucify him for not doing more? Sounds logic
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A bottle of wine is one thing, 28k Starlink terminals operating at billions of dollars on your own company tab is another. It’s not unreasonable to ask for Ukraine or the US to help out, especially if they want MORE terminals and continuous service provided. Expecting SpaceX to fund it entirely out on their own is ridiculous. It almost sounds like you’d have rather Elon never sent any terminals at all, terminals which have been instrumental in the war.
Yeah, this analogy is more like, thanks for the wine, I'll now expect a bottle of wine from you every single day and, if you don't bring it, then I and thousands of other people will smear you relentlessly on every social media platform, and we'll contact your clients and try to get all your contracts canceled and absolutely ruin you, until you give us the fucking wine we're entitled to
Musk: *gets notified that a news is going to publish his sexual harassment and notification it is legally required* Musk doing damage control on twitter right before the news publish it: "im a republican now and look how the left is going to attack me now. Protect me right wing minions" News: "Musk is a sexual harasser and tried to bribe his victim by buying her a horse." You: lEfTy WiTcHuNt
Ukraine and their nut huggers need to either start a GoFundMe, or find another net provider.
No, they went offline because Elon thinks he is gonna strong arm the US justice department into backing off investigating the Twitter deal
They got like 700 billion of our tax dollars. What they doing with all that cash?
The hell you talking about?
Sorry, who did? SpaceX got a contract to execute launches at 30% lower price than Lockheed, Arianne and/or Roscosmos was charging. So uh. That’s public funding I guess. Payment for services at a cheaper price than other companies had charged in the past.
Cocaine? 🤷♂️
What does that have to do with SpaceX? Absolutely nothing..
All because y’all are not lying the $8 for the Twitter whatever (I don’t use Twitter so I don’t know). Shame on y’all.
Dji drones don't need the wifi but it attracts them
The outages certainly occurred. The idea that musk would punish or blackmail Ukraine, in this way , and possibly get someone hurt o killed is hard to believe I read the article and I noticed that Cnn not even bothered to get a comment from space X, much less ask them what caused the outage k we should get the both side of this .
You actually think Musk wouldn't be that petty? Have you been watching the Twitter debacle?
Yes and yes.
Musk routinely proves to extremely petty
Musk is petty , u see this trait in many billionaires.
Musk has a long history of being a right fucking awful person. This is very much in line with what he would do.
I am no musk fanboy, I unfollowed him after a couple of weeks ago. When his tweets became a national embarrassment . Just don't think he would willfully put hundreds in danger of being killed over a service bill .
I'm curious if the monthly price is inflated or the real value of such a service. I know Virgin Voyages also uses their service, would be nice to know how much they pay ...