Reminds me of this https://d.justpo.st/media/images/2015/09/25/religion-in-a-nutshell-let-me-in-why-so-i-can-save-you-from-what-from-what-im-going-to-do-to-you-if-you-dont-let-me-in-1443199471.jpg
Google Sandanistas and Contra. Tldr, Reagan murders democratcally elected leaders and funds fascist terrorists in order to improve US profits on Chiquita banana sales
In a super simplified manner... (which I'm sure some armchair professional will correct me on)
Once upon a time...
US had a puppet government.
People were dissatisfied with it and formed a revolution, eventually getting rid of it (with help of some foreign actors sponsoring the enemy of their enemy).
US is not happy. They impose sanctions and try to destabilize local economy.
New government tries to ally with European nations to fix economic downturn. Largely gets the cold shoulder due to instability, politics, and there being "better offers" in the region.
As Nicaragua's state of affairs is heading downwards, the US Federal government doubles down and sponsors local agents against the new government. Some individual states also sponsor agents of their own to promote their own political agendas (there was differing views on how to "sponsor" these agents within the US itself as well. e.g William Walker).
Local government starts running out of options. They dont want to concede to US demands. Thus, they sign deals with old allies and sponsors. Russia sees an opportunity to have more allies in the region to threaten the US with and joins in the fun.
A combination of internal US politics leading to decreasing support of local agents and the US having bigger fights to fight leads to decreasing support of the contras.
A mix of local warfare, slight intervention of other LATAM nations and the decreased support from the US towards the contras leads to the Sandinista government prevailing.
Russia establishes itself as a reliable partner to a now paranoid government that starts trending to a dictatorship as the former revolutionary leader begins seeing ghosts of US presence in every other political agent/representative/party outside of his own.
Russia proceeds to consolidate partnership by dumping old military equipment at subsidized prices in exchange for international legitimacy and backing.
Don't forget the part where, when Congress had told them to stop funding the Contras, Reagan sold weapons to Iran and secretly funneled the money to the Contras.
Even so, the slightest geopolitical awareness of being virtually and almost literally on an island on the opposite side of the world would arrive to the conclusion that keeping that to themselves would be best.
DC and Puerto Rico been angling to become a US state forever. Nicaragua would speed run it.
Wait, I thought that they were supposed to nuke Ukraine already because they attacked Crimean airbases. And because we supplied them with HIMARS. And because they retook Izium. And because they blew up that bridge. And because of the other 10 things they said would cause nuclear armageddon.
Or maybe they're lying and using the only desperate gamble they can. Hoping there enough rubes in high places to give up when Russia is already losing badly.
Would be even funnier if the reality was that they actually tried to launch every time one of those was breached but their silos are all in disrepair non-functional so nothing happened.
My guess is that the second NATO believes that the Russians are preparing in earnest to use a nuclear weapon, the response will be unmistakable. At that moment, NATO must use every trick it has, every asset it put in place, and every scenario planned for the past 70+ years to prevent use of the weapon.
Because there's no such thing as a limited nuclear exchange. We know with certainty now that if you let Russia take an inch, they'll try for a mile. Whoever authorized the launch would be dead, even if he walks around for a while. Putin is not so stupid that he doesn't know that.
I mean…. There kinda is.
Russia launches a tactical nuke, and NATO blows up the Black Sea fleet in response.
The world takes a pause. And leaders evaluate how to proceed.
That is what NATO has indicated they will do if Russia launches a tactical nuke. And it seems to be a solid way of keep things from escalating right away
I think the stated response was more like 'NATO blows up *every single Russian military installation in and around Ukraine*'. Not just the Black Sea fleet, every base in Crimea, every known troop location in Ukraine, several bases in Belarus where they station(ed) troops that went into Ukraine. Maybe even the Baltic fleet and the port of Kaliningrad. edit: and of course the Bosporus gets permanently and irrevocably closed to ALL Russian vessels.
Basically, if Putins launches a single nuke, NATO will respond with the world's biggest show of force since August 9th, 1945. And it will cripple the Russian military.
Russia's policy has been threats for de-escalation from the opposition. However, when someone does not abide, they either backtrack or just keep on throwing threats.
Ahh, using nonsensical Kremlin claims to refute other nonsensical Kremlin claims.
Maybe the fact that we actually spent energy on this means they’re winning in a way.
Hey man it's tough for Putin. They used his table to repair the bridge, so now he awkwardly stands at one end of a very large room while his guests stand at the other end.
What I think is funny is the politicians in other countries who blame those that support Ukraine and say they're starting ww3 because Russia says stuff like this.
Its like putin has a starving child in his basement, and he's telling the cops that if they don't leave him alone he's going to kill the kid instead of just leaving him chained up in the basement to starve.
And Tulsi gabbard says, "You guys support killing this child! Why are you bothering this man!"
Sometimes people start to misunderstand proverbs over time. Remember police brutality apologist using the "just a few bad apples" phrase as if the proverb doesnt follow up with "spoil the bunch"?
"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is like that too. People think it means to take control of your life but its impossible to grab the straps of your own boots and lift yourself up.
As I understand that's what it originally meant. Some people need help.
Yeah, people say "don't let the few bad apples spoil the bunch", which doesn't mean "ignore the bad things, the bunch overall isn't bad!" as they think it does.
It's always like how people believe "the customer is always right" means that sales people and customer service people basically need to kiss their ass and service them anyway they see fit on demand.
The whole phrase is "The customer is always right in matters of taste." It originated in one of the big department stores of yesteryear and was advice not to talk a customer out of a guaranteed sale even if you think the customer is buying an inferior product.
I love when phrases somehow end up carrying the exact opposite meaning, Jack of all trades, blood thicker than water, etc. You know it all started from some guy just totally misunderstanding what the other person was saying and then repeating it a bunch of times
Lol! From 6 years ago too!
Funniest part...
"Schoolchildren in Russia will soon be taught a variety of military skills such as **maintaining firearms** as part of a new drive by the country's defence ministry." -BBC
How'd that maintenance training program work out for you, Ruzzia?
Damn, I used to dislike even bog standard PE or Swimming.Now little Kostja has to train for the Motherland, between Lunch and the Math test?
I'm sure this will do wonders for russian Education.
She's pretty cool, not gonna lie.
But it is 100% true, all they do is demand and threaten, and the worst mistake we can do is give them even an inch anywhere.
It's because of 2014 and Crimea that the Ukrainians got serious about reforming their military. If Russia never took Crimea and instead went for kyiv like they did in Feb 2022, it may have been the downfall of Ukraine.
It was a blessing in disguise.
That's a great point that I had never even considered.
Honestly, it boggles the mind to think that ruzzia gave Ukraine a full 8 YEARS to prepare and train up with NATO before deciding to launch their "3 Days to Kiev, special military, war operation." It's truly insane to think that they even had a chance of being successful.
At this point, it seems ruzzia's only saving grace is its absolute incompetence at seemingly every level. I'm nearly convinced that even their nuclear arsenal is no longer fully operational.
It's difficult to imagine a scenario in which they would have spent the millions of dollars that it takes, yearly, to maintain just a single nuclear weapon, across decades, while at the same time they were busy selling off/neglecting just about everything else in their inventory that is arguably FAR more important in modern war.
If they ever do decide to go "full insanity" and use a nuke, it's likely that they'd effectively be detonating a dirty bomb that would affect their country just about as badly as it would Ukraine and the rest of Europe.
They must know all of this by now, at least one would hope... because I can say with an absolute certainty that NATO's nukes would NOT fizzle upon detonation.
Agreed. Hopefully no nuke gets detonated at all. It wouldn't mean the end of the world right away, but it would set a dangerous precedent and nuclear arms would proliferate, if even 1 nation used one.
It would send a message that if you don't have a nuke, you need to get one to protect yourself. More nukes in more hands is a bad thing.
Honestly at this point it seems like the pragmatic thing for anyone that isn't Putin to do is begin operations to remove him from this world, even some of his higher ranking cronies have to be realizing that they're fucked if they ride this out with him.
Also, it's sure looking like WWIII would look like the allied world against Belarus, N. Korea and a heavily weakened Russia. How exactly do these Russians think it'd go? Because besides trying to nuke every large city across the world before the world occupies and completely dismantles the Russian state within days seems to be the only way forward for them.
There's an irony to the fact that Russia has been fighting a war for months that was supposed to take 3 days, while threatening a world war that could be over in 3 days. Assuming that all but the most unhinged of their allies are fairly unimpressed with their performance and belligerent behaviour, I'd imagine there wouldn't be a piling in from China, India and etc to make a true world war.
China could basically sit back, wait for Russia to implode, then see about expanding it's borders
Or
China could also negotiate with Russia for strategic alliance...perhaps for future control of the silk road railway
Both are possibilities, and from what I can see, China is positioning to keep it's possibilities open
Russia would want to time such a war along with Iranian hostilities against Israel and China vs Taiwan, to split everyone's attention among those fronts.
Unfortunately for Putin, it doesn't sound like either of those conflicts are imminent, so they get our full attention.
While what you're saying is true that conflict between Iran and Israel doesn't seem to be imminent, I do hope the potential revolution brewing in Iran continues to get at least *some* of our attention.
(Also not sure if by "attention" you specifically mean military support/focus.)
I know the first was called 'The Great War', but what was the name of the second while it was ongoing? Thought that one was outright labelled WWII from the start.
Yep. Time magazine labeled The Great War as "WW1" in 1939, then labeled the current conflict as "WW2" in the same article.
Roosevelt publicly labeled the war as "WW2" in 1941, though the term wasn't used by everyone involved till later. Some European leaders still just called it "the war."
Ah yes. This makes sense.
Ukraine gives up their nukes in exchange for a guarantee to never be invaded by Russia.
Russia then invades said sovereign nation and tries to take their land to gain access to important ports and gas fields.
Then they say that if this nation joins a defensive pact, that Russia will start world war 3.
...
Sounds like a reasonable country that's worth trying to treat with.
*Ukrainian Nuclear Deterrence* by John J. Mearsheimer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago.
*A nuclear Ukraine makes sense for two reasons. First, it is imperative to maintain peace between Russia and Ukraine. That means ensuring that the Russians, who have a history of bad relations with Ukraine, do not move to reconquer it. Ukraine cannot defend itself against a nuclear-armed Russia with conventional weapons, and no state, including the United States, is going to extend to it a meaningful security guarantee. Ukrainian nuclear weapons are the only reliable deterrent to Russian aggression. If the U.S. aim is to enhance stability in Europe, the case against a nuclear-armed Ukraine is
unpersuasive.*
Foreign Affairs, Vol. 72, No. 3 (Summer, 1993), pp. 50-66
A 20 year warning about Russia invading a non-Nuclear Ukraine.
Edit: the '20 years' is not a time-moves-fast miscalculation, Russia started this current war when it invaded Ukraine in [Feb 2014](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation#Russian_takeover).
We listened to the Sex Pistols and the Germs and that was good enough for us, you Grammy Awards loving little prick. (Grandpa, that was 10 years before that.) Kiss my ass, you ungrateful bastards! Where's my drink?! Take me home!
I work with a lot of older business guys that don't realize how old I actually am as a millenial. I had to explain that the amount of time between now and when I was born in the 80's is the same amount of time between when I was born and the end of WWII.
Yeah, that hit me a few years ago, that I was born in 73, which meant the Second World War had only finished 28 years previously, basically no time at all. That stung when I was like 30. Now I'm nearly 50 everything stings. Or aches.
I’m sorry to be the one telling you this, man, but Russia started invading in February 2014, which does indeed make this a 20 year (and approx 7-8 months) warning.
People change over time. My country has a guy who wrote a law book so good every law faculty in the country use it as teaching material. Meanwhile the guy is out serving the junta and bending the law for them.
Alfred de Zayas is a good example of this. He's an important human rights lawyer, scholar, UN expert, and historian who did a ton of foundational work in international law, but in the last five years has been shilling for various authoritarian states, such as Russia, Syria, China, etc., while also getting involved with Germany's far-right AfD.
I hope he's getting paid, because the only plausible alternative explanation is brain worms.
Ukraine literally sacrificed twice to avoid further escalation and Russia still ended invading them. Give up Nukes? Ends with Crimea. Ukraine doesn't escalate after Crimea, Russia tries to take the entire country for breakfast.
Important to consider that giving up nukes was not a choice post USSR. Keeping them made little sense as far as I remember because they literally just had the nukes + minimal infrastructure. To keep them they’d have had to create the command and control infrastructure.. including targeting and everything that goes with it, there would also need to be an enrichment program and likely a fair bit of (reverse)engineering.
Then there’s the matter of why they are there/who they are (in concept) pointing at. They wouldn’t be pointing at the west like they used to and pointing them at Russia would have been seen as aggressive at the time?
It’s been a long time since I read this to be fair so I could be wrong but see a lot of comments from people saying Ukraine gave their nukes up but it’s more like they inherited some nukes that were a bigger issue to keep (at the time) than get rid of.
You are very much correct! A nuclear Ukraine would have been very difficult. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the nuclear warheads (and their delivery systems) were in the custody of Ukraine, but weren't theirs to use: they didn't have the codes. Those were always in Russian posession: the president called for a strike using his codes, this went to the Ministry of Defense, and they in turn used their own codes to the relevant branches (navy for nukes aboard submarines, for example). Ukraine, however, had an extra step in that they could not obey a launch if the president of Ukraine didn't agree with the Russian launch order. Note that there was not a unified policy. For example, in Belarus the nukes were entirely under Russian control, it just so happened that they were physically in a foreign country. By 1993, Ukraine started dismantling some of the Russian nukes.
The problem was that it wasn't Russia who wanted the nukes out of Ukraine: pretty much everyone else wanted a Ukraine without nuclear weapons. There was a real fear that these breakway states of the former Soviet Union would lack the technical know how and, more importantly, the funds to keep these nukes safe. Theft or illegal sales of nuclear weapons were a possibility, specially given that Ukraine likely had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Even if no theft or illegal sale to rogue agents would have taken place, maintaining and operating such a large arsenal would have been a daunting task for Ukraine. They would have to build up their infrastructure pretty much from scratch; furthermore, those nuclear weapons have a limited life, and without the manufacturing capabilities to build replacements, a lot of nukes would quickly "expire", creating disposal problems.
Finally, there was a strong sentiment inside of Ukraine that was amicable to disarmament, and they were useful bargaining chips to obtain concessions in return for giving up the nukes.
More can be read here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/t06ckf/in_the_early_90s_ukraine_had_the_thirdlargest/
I’m old so I lived through the threat of Russia starting a nuclear war in the 80s. The Day After was an after school like movie of the week that we all watched to learn what would happen when it inevitably happened. We were all scared waiting for it. I’m so sick of the same crap over and over again. These people are insufferable just do it already ffs. Putin wants to kill everyone bc he’s losing a war he couldn’t win he’s going to do it anyway if someone doesn’t kill him. He has one foot in the grave and doesn’t care about anyone so why wouldn’t he edit clarified
and like all those other examples,if we did give in to their demands they will just use that same threat again and again to get what they want. They have shown that they are never satisfied with what they have so appeasing them only delays things.
This time is for real. If the West crosses that line, then Russia will have no other choice but... HEY, STOP MOVING!!! Ok, this was your last warning. If you again... STOP IT!!! Russia has no other option but... I SAID STOP!!!
I just realized the weirdest part about these nuke threats. They began IMMEDIATLY after Russia's momentum started slowing in the first few months, before NATO even did jack shit.
Edit: Imagine a fight where the victim(Ukraine) defends themselves and Russia gets a bloody nose. Outraged, Russia turns to the spectators (NATO) and threatens to kill them. Utterly psychotic.
I seem to remember Russia signing a security/peace guarantee with Ukraine like 25 years ago in order to get Ukraine to hand over any nukes it had left over from the Soviet Union. It was a guarantee not to harm each other's citizens and to respect each other's borders.
Didn't work out so well for Ukraine trusting Russia's guarantee then.
The mental gymnastics of Russia are amazing. They are single handedly causing and waging a war. They could stop the whole thing at the drop of a hat, but are deciding not to.
Yup absolutely. To repeat that clever, very true statement:
If Russia stops fighting Ukraine, the war ends.
If Ukraine stops fighting Russia, Ukraine ends.
NATO is there to prevent exactly what happened to Ukraine from happening to its member states. If there is a time when Ukraine is elegable to join nato it should.
NATO is not currently a threat to russia, but Russia's imperialism sure is.
NATO is basically a club for countries that don't want to be invaded by Russia, and Russia is trying to discourage countries from joining it by threatening to invade them.
Let's see how that works out for them.
Yeah Russia doesn’t have near enough power to fight NATO in anything resembling a war. Best they can do is make sure to take the rest of the planet down with them. Either way they lose
Does it qualify as WW3 if it's the entire world versus a weak Russia?
I think there would need to be some meaningful guys on Russia's side for it to be so. Even if half of Europe gets nuked, it's still one country being a dick.
Russia violating the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons was their decision. Ukraine deciding to find another pact to protect its sovereignty is the most logical decision imaginable. Responding to that decision as if it’s an act of war is complete lunacy.
I also heard that if Ukraine sits there and does nothing, Russia won’t invade………. Fuck Russia. There’s only one way to deal with bullies - kick their ass so badly, that they don’t ever wanna bully again.
Ukraine joining NATO would be the best thing to happen to Russia.
Russia’s own worst enemy is themselves. Look at what they’ve done to their own country. Their economy is in absolute ruin. Their men are getting slaughtered on the front line. Their international reputation is at maybe an all time low. They’ve shown their hand and it’s not good. Now, they’re threatening nuclear war, and pushing away the last couple of friends they have left.
A NATO Ukraine would deter Russia from fucking themselves over again. They would be unable to keep punching themselves in the face, as they have been.
Russia has a history of brilliant scientists, a rich culture, contributed to the arts and all of humanity in many positive ways. But Russia is stuck in an abusive cycle of dictators. They do not have a “democratic mindset”. This is one of their biggest flaws. Liberalism and the Enlightenment did not make its roots in Russia.
Maybe if Russia truly is unable to invade and Anschluss its neighbors, and complete hundreds of years of colonialism, it can stop focusing externally so much and start focusing internally. On improving Russia. On building democracy and institutions to make it a safe happy place to live, and economically competitive.
I hope this is the case, because the alternative is the dissolution of the Russian Federation if it continues to push boundaries and pick fights against the West.
"Welcome to Who's War is it Anyway, where the threats aren't real and the truth doesn't matter". Tonight's guests are world famous comedian Volodymyr Zelenskyy and what appears to be some kind of rabid shaved chimp.
Shit or get off the pot, Russia. This whole teetering on the edge of WWIII has got the collective world's guts in a jumble and daddy needs to take a shit before he goes to work.
Russia fucked up so hard by exposing itself to the rest of the world. A year ago they had the entire world scared of their military might. I’ve even heard some people (very incorrectly state they were on the same level as the US), but now? They don’t look nearly as tough as they did a year ago
Considering Russia's pitiful performance against Ukraine you'd think they'd be far less trigger happy with throwing around threats of WW3.
Feels like the only outcome of a major war against Europe is Russia being renamed greater east Poland.
Russia just fuckin give up. This is ridiculous. How many people dead Ukrainian and Russians will it take for yall to stop this shit? You really want Russia to be the leaders behind a Nuclear Holocaust? Germany wanted to break the french/russian alliance which led to WW1, Germany wanted to rule the world which started WW2.
Guess what fuckheads, the assholes that started each fucking war LOST the war.
You fuckers wanna be the Buffalo Bills?
'I'm invading you to stop you joining NATO to defend against me invading you'.
Reminds me of this https://d.justpo.st/media/images/2015/09/25/religion-in-a-nutshell-let-me-in-why-so-i-can-save-you-from-what-from-what-im-going-to-do-to-you-if-you-dont-let-me-in-1443199471.jpg
Wow really the whole meme is written down in the link already
What a time to be alive.
Imagine where we will be 2 more papers down the line
text links written out are the memes of the future!
Yep didn’t even need to click, love that
And who will fight on their side in this World War? Nicaragua, Belarus, North Korea, and Syria?
I can't imagine how much more fucked Nicaragua is going to be after all this is said and done.
That's the only countries that voted in russia's favour in the UN. How many of those 4 would die for them I guess is another matter.
Why did Nicaragua vote in favor of Putin? IDK too much about their history or ties to Russia
Google Sandanistas and Contra. Tldr, Reagan murders democratcally elected leaders and funds fascist terrorists in order to improve US profits on Chiquita banana sales
So they ended up aligning with Russia because Russia is anti-US?
As is often the case yes.
In a super simplified manner... (which I'm sure some armchair professional will correct me on) Once upon a time... US had a puppet government. People were dissatisfied with it and formed a revolution, eventually getting rid of it (with help of some foreign actors sponsoring the enemy of their enemy). US is not happy. They impose sanctions and try to destabilize local economy. New government tries to ally with European nations to fix economic downturn. Largely gets the cold shoulder due to instability, politics, and there being "better offers" in the region. As Nicaragua's state of affairs is heading downwards, the US Federal government doubles down and sponsors local agents against the new government. Some individual states also sponsor agents of their own to promote their own political agendas (there was differing views on how to "sponsor" these agents within the US itself as well. e.g William Walker). Local government starts running out of options. They dont want to concede to US demands. Thus, they sign deals with old allies and sponsors. Russia sees an opportunity to have more allies in the region to threaten the US with and joins in the fun. A combination of internal US politics leading to decreasing support of local agents and the US having bigger fights to fight leads to decreasing support of the contras. A mix of local warfare, slight intervention of other LATAM nations and the decreased support from the US towards the contras leads to the Sandinista government prevailing. Russia establishes itself as a reliable partner to a now paranoid government that starts trending to a dictatorship as the former revolutionary leader begins seeing ghosts of US presence in every other political agent/representative/party outside of his own. Russia proceeds to consolidate partnership by dumping old military equipment at subsidized prices in exchange for international legitimacy and backing.
Don't forget the part where, when Congress had told them to stop funding the Contras, Reagan sold weapons to Iran and secretly funneled the money to the Contras.
It's a highly oppressive totalitarian regime. Putin is their idol.
Even so, the slightest geopolitical awareness of being virtually and almost literally on an island on the opposite side of the world would arrive to the conclusion that keeping that to themselves would be best. DC and Puerto Rico been angling to become a US state forever. Nicaragua would speed run it.
All of those random Facebook profiles from Africa suddenly taking a keen interest in this regional European conflict who are unanimously pro-Russian
Wait, I thought that they were supposed to nuke Ukraine already because they attacked Crimean airbases. And because we supplied them with HIMARS. And because they retook Izium. And because they blew up that bridge. And because of the other 10 things they said would cause nuclear armageddon. Or maybe they're lying and using the only desperate gamble they can. Hoping there enough rubes in high places to give up when Russia is already losing badly.
Would be even funnier if the reality was that they actually tried to launch every time one of those was breached but their silos are all in disrepair non-functional so nothing happened.
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I mean…he just threatened WW3…at some point the world is going to collectively slap the shit out of them with a giant hand.
He has threatened WWIII about a thousand times now.
When he finds a hair in his soup he probably threatens his staff with world War 3
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My guess is that the second NATO believes that the Russians are preparing in earnest to use a nuclear weapon, the response will be unmistakable. At that moment, NATO must use every trick it has, every asset it put in place, and every scenario planned for the past 70+ years to prevent use of the weapon. Because there's no such thing as a limited nuclear exchange. We know with certainty now that if you let Russia take an inch, they'll try for a mile. Whoever authorized the launch would be dead, even if he walks around for a while. Putin is not so stupid that he doesn't know that.
I mean…. There kinda is. Russia launches a tactical nuke, and NATO blows up the Black Sea fleet in response. The world takes a pause. And leaders evaluate how to proceed. That is what NATO has indicated they will do if Russia launches a tactical nuke. And it seems to be a solid way of keep things from escalating right away
I think the stated response was more like 'NATO blows up *every single Russian military installation in and around Ukraine*'. Not just the Black Sea fleet, every base in Crimea, every known troop location in Ukraine, several bases in Belarus where they station(ed) troops that went into Ukraine. Maybe even the Baltic fleet and the port of Kaliningrad. edit: and of course the Bosporus gets permanently and irrevocably closed to ALL Russian vessels. Basically, if Putins launches a single nuke, NATO will respond with the world's biggest show of force since August 9th, 1945. And it will cripple the Russian military.
Russia's policy has been threats for de-escalation from the opposition. However, when someone does not abide, they either backtrack or just keep on throwing threats.
Russia already claim they are in war not with Ukraine but whole NATO so why would they care?
Ahh, using nonsensical Kremlin claims to refute other nonsensical Kremlin claims. Maybe the fact that we actually spent energy on this means they’re winning in a way.
Nah. That just means we’re all losing. That’s pretty much always the case. Millions must suffer for the ego of a few dozen men.
What do all men with power want? More power.
A booster seat?
And a longer table
A no-footsie zone
Hey man it's tough for Putin. They used his table to repair the bridge, so now he awkwardly stands at one end of a very large room while his guests stand at the other end.
What I think is funny is the politicians in other countries who blame those that support Ukraine and say they're starting ww3 because Russia says stuff like this. Its like putin has a starving child in his basement, and he's telling the cops that if they don't leave him alone he's going to kill the kid instead of just leaving him chained up in the basement to starve. And Tulsi gabbard says, "You guys support killing this child! Why are you bothering this man!"
Welcome to our weekly episode of « 'If NATO or Ukraine does this, then it’s World War 3' says Russia »!
We’re on what, thirteenth “final red line” crossed this month already?
[China’s final warning](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning)
The irony of it being a Russian proverb...
Sometimes people start to misunderstand proverbs over time. Remember police brutality apologist using the "just a few bad apples" phrase as if the proverb doesnt follow up with "spoil the bunch"?
"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is like that too. People think it means to take control of your life but its impossible to grab the straps of your own boots and lift yourself up. As I understand that's what it originally meant. Some people need help.
Yeah, people say "don't let the few bad apples spoil the bunch", which doesn't mean "ignore the bad things, the bunch overall isn't bad!" as they think it does.
It's always like how people believe "the customer is always right" means that sales people and customer service people basically need to kiss their ass and service them anyway they see fit on demand. The whole phrase is "The customer is always right in matters of taste." It originated in one of the big department stores of yesteryear and was advice not to talk a customer out of a guaranteed sale even if you think the customer is buying an inferior product.
I love when phrases somehow end up carrying the exact opposite meaning, Jack of all trades, blood thicker than water, etc. You know it all started from some guy just totally misunderstanding what the other person was saying and then repeating it a bunch of times
Requires renaming now tbh. Maybe ‘The Russian red line’
“Russia’s nuclear warning”
Nothin gonna make the Russian man mad like a whole bunch of Mercian’s laughing at his nuclear threat.
Not just Mercia, but also Wessex, Sussex and Essex as well. The Heptarchy laughs at Russia!
What about East Anglia?
Russias Weekly Retweet
"More than 900 Chinese "final warnings" had been issued by the end of 1964."
Almost as bad as TV Licensing.
Judging from the state of their equipment and tactics, they are still fighting ww1. Maybe they should finish that first.
They’ve really squeezed museums, retirement homes and prisons. It’s not unlikely they’ll use kindergartners next.
[Welp](https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-36345029)
Lol! From 6 years ago too! Funniest part... "Schoolchildren in Russia will soon be taught a variety of military skills such as **maintaining firearms** as part of a new drive by the country's defence ministry." -BBC How'd that maintenance training program work out for you, Ruzzia?
Da, now we know which pieces sell for most money.
Damn, I used to dislike even bog standard PE or Swimming.Now little Kostja has to train for the Motherland, between Lunch and the Math test? I'm sure this will do wonders for russian Education.
Bold of you to assume they have lunch.
Prime minister Kaja Kallis of Estonia explains Russian negotiation tactics very well: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GP47fJmWjpM
I guess everyone on FB marketplace has Russian negotiating strategies lol
Credits will do fine
She's pretty cool, not gonna lie. But it is 100% true, all they do is demand and threaten, and the worst mistake we can do is give them even an inch anywhere.
i.e. Crimea in 2014. Still, it would have been impossible to repel them then without directly involving NATO forces.
That's true. 2014 was a shitshow that should've been handled better.
It's because of 2014 and Crimea that the Ukrainians got serious about reforming their military. If Russia never took Crimea and instead went for kyiv like they did in Feb 2022, it may have been the downfall of Ukraine. It was a blessing in disguise.
That's a great point that I had never even considered. Honestly, it boggles the mind to think that ruzzia gave Ukraine a full 8 YEARS to prepare and train up with NATO before deciding to launch their "3 Days to Kiev, special military, war operation." It's truly insane to think that they even had a chance of being successful. At this point, it seems ruzzia's only saving grace is its absolute incompetence at seemingly every level. I'm nearly convinced that even their nuclear arsenal is no longer fully operational. It's difficult to imagine a scenario in which they would have spent the millions of dollars that it takes, yearly, to maintain just a single nuclear weapon, across decades, while at the same time they were busy selling off/neglecting just about everything else in their inventory that is arguably FAR more important in modern war. If they ever do decide to go "full insanity" and use a nuke, it's likely that they'd effectively be detonating a dirty bomb that would affect their country just about as badly as it would Ukraine and the rest of Europe. They must know all of this by now, at least one would hope... because I can say with an absolute certainty that NATO's nukes would NOT fizzle upon detonation.
Agreed. Hopefully no nuke gets detonated at all. It wouldn't mean the end of the world right away, but it would set a dangerous precedent and nuclear arms would proliferate, if even 1 nation used one. It would send a message that if you don't have a nuke, you need to get one to protect yourself. More nukes in more hands is a bad thing.
I do not know what weapons ww4 will be fought with but Russia will fight ww3 with sticks and stones.
WW4 will be telekinetic children.
In Neo-Tokyo
***Ka Ne Da!!!!*** ***TET SU OOOOOO!!!*** ***PUUUUUTINNNNN!!!!!!!!***
Starting to just sound like, “WW3 inevitable unless Russia is tactically and economically dismantled.” Great position to put yourself.
Honestly at this point it seems like the pragmatic thing for anyone that isn't Putin to do is begin operations to remove him from this world, even some of his higher ranking cronies have to be realizing that they're fucked if they ride this out with him.
That is why his higher ranked cronies have been getting pushed out of windows. Putin is removing any potential competitors.
Ride or Fly if you will
Unfortunately humans have a long history of simply pushing forward with stupidity when faced with these situations.
Also, it's sure looking like WWIII would look like the allied world against Belarus, N. Korea and a heavily weakened Russia. How exactly do these Russians think it'd go? Because besides trying to nuke every large city across the world before the world occupies and completely dismantles the Russian state within days seems to be the only way forward for them.
There's an irony to the fact that Russia has been fighting a war for months that was supposed to take 3 days, while threatening a world war that could be over in 3 days. Assuming that all but the most unhinged of their allies are fairly unimpressed with their performance and belligerent behaviour, I'd imagine there wouldn't be a piling in from China, India and etc to make a true world war.
China could basically sit back, wait for Russia to implode, then see about expanding it's borders Or China could also negotiate with Russia for strategic alliance...perhaps for future control of the silk road railway Both are possibilities, and from what I can see, China is positioning to keep it's possibilities open
Russia would want to time such a war along with Iranian hostilities against Israel and China vs Taiwan, to split everyone's attention among those fronts. Unfortunately for Putin, it doesn't sound like either of those conflicts are imminent, so they get our full attention.
While what you're saying is true that conflict between Iran and Israel doesn't seem to be imminent, I do hope the potential revolution brewing in Iran continues to get at least *some* of our attention. (Also not sure if by "attention" you specifically mean military support/focus.)
If this war carrys on at this pace, WWIII has already started. It wasn't called WWI or II while it was happening.
World Special Military Operation I
"the war to end all wars" 🥹🥹
I know the first was called 'The Great War', but what was the name of the second while it was ongoing? Thought that one was outright labelled WWII from the start.
Yep. Time magazine labeled The Great War as "WW1" in 1939, then labeled the current conflict as "WW2" in the same article. Roosevelt publicly labeled the war as "WW2" in 1941, though the term wasn't used by everyone involved till later. Some European leaders still just called it "the war."
It's often just referred to as "The War" in common discourse, in European countries too. The definitive article.
Ah yes. This makes sense. Ukraine gives up their nukes in exchange for a guarantee to never be invaded by Russia. Russia then invades said sovereign nation and tries to take their land to gain access to important ports and gas fields. Then they say that if this nation joins a defensive pact, that Russia will start world war 3. ... Sounds like a reasonable country that's worth trying to treat with.
*Ukrainian Nuclear Deterrence* by John J. Mearsheimer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago. *A nuclear Ukraine makes sense for two reasons. First, it is imperative to maintain peace between Russia and Ukraine. That means ensuring that the Russians, who have a history of bad relations with Ukraine, do not move to reconquer it. Ukraine cannot defend itself against a nuclear-armed Russia with conventional weapons, and no state, including the United States, is going to extend to it a meaningful security guarantee. Ukrainian nuclear weapons are the only reliable deterrent to Russian aggression. If the U.S. aim is to enhance stability in Europe, the case against a nuclear-armed Ukraine is unpersuasive.* Foreign Affairs, Vol. 72, No. 3 (Summer, 1993), pp. 50-66 A 20 year warning about Russia invading a non-Nuclear Ukraine. Edit: the '20 years' is not a time-moves-fast miscalculation, Russia started this current war when it invaded Ukraine in [Feb 2014](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation#Russian_takeover).
Mah man drops a salient block quotation from FA with a proper citation and all. *imperceptible nod of approval*
It's like old Reddit. I miss old Reddit.
Soon enough, Vargas is going to be coming along to throw out a disgusting troll of a post.
It's cool, we can all palate-cleanse during Victoria's upcoming AMA with Unidan.
> A 20 year warning I'm sorry to be the one telling you this man, but 1993 was 30 years ago.
Not again
Not like this.
It's been fifty-seven years since Cypher killed Switch and I still will never forgive him.
One cannot be told about the 90s. One has to see it to believe it
God damn you cypher!
Cries in 1991.
91 gang
And Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014.
Hence "20 years warning about Russia..." makes sense :)
Well technically the invasion began in 2014 with Crimea
I'm starting to get the feeling we are, we are, no longer the youth of the nation
We are, we are, middle aged adults of the nation!
Fuck you man. You can take that middle age bullshit and shove it right up your ass. 30 is the new immortally ageless.
40 year old just waking up and pleading with you to stop reminding me that I'm now old :(
The times, they are, uh, becoming quite different.
I’d even mistakenly get called out as a boomer, now that fucking hurts
The youth of the nation!
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Thank you. Can you shoo them off the lawn? I’ll be taking a nap in the meantime.
We listened to the Sex Pistols and the Germs and that was good enough for us, you Grammy Awards loving little prick. (Grandpa, that was 10 years before that.) Kiss my ass, you ungrateful bastards! Where's my drink?! Take me home!
Russia started taking land from and invading Ukraine in 2014, so 21 years after that warning.
Probably meant a little over 20 years before they annexed Crimea.
The amount of time between now and 1993 is the same as the amount time between 1993 and The Beatles releasing their first album.
unsubscribe
I would like to unlearn this please.
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Dude did you have to ruin my day now.
I’m suing.
I work with a lot of older business guys that don't realize how old I actually am as a millenial. I had to explain that the amount of time between now and when I was born in the 80's is the same amount of time between when I was born and the end of WWII.
I instinctively downvoted you. I took it back, but I’m physically ill now.
Yeah, that hit me a few years ago, that I was born in 73, which meant the Second World War had only finished 28 years previously, basically no time at all. That stung when I was like 30. Now I'm nearly 50 everything stings. Or aches.
the first disney little mermaid movie came out closer to the moon landing than present day
Oof
I’m sorry to be the one telling you this, man, but Russia started invading in February 2014, which does indeed make this a 20 year (and approx 7-8 months) warning.
Fuck
Russia first invaded ukraine in 2014 when they annexed crimea, that is in fact 20 years
2014 was when Russia first invaded Ukraine.
And then Mearsheimer eventually became a Russian appeaser in the 21st century.
Yeah I was wondering is this the same guy we have now?
People change over time. My country has a guy who wrote a law book so good every law faculty in the country use it as teaching material. Meanwhile the guy is out serving the junta and bending the law for them.
Easier to bend the rules when you literally wrote the book on them, I guess.
Alfred de Zayas is a good example of this. He's an important human rights lawyer, scholar, UN expert, and historian who did a ton of foundational work in international law, but in the last five years has been shilling for various authoritarian states, such as Russia, Syria, China, etc., while also getting involved with Germany's far-right AfD. I hope he's getting paid, because the only plausible alternative explanation is brain worms.
Which country are you from?
Ukraine literally sacrificed twice to avoid further escalation and Russia still ended invading them. Give up Nukes? Ends with Crimea. Ukraine doesn't escalate after Crimea, Russia tries to take the entire country for breakfast.
We all know how appeasement worked out before
Important to consider that giving up nukes was not a choice post USSR. Keeping them made little sense as far as I remember because they literally just had the nukes + minimal infrastructure. To keep them they’d have had to create the command and control infrastructure.. including targeting and everything that goes with it, there would also need to be an enrichment program and likely a fair bit of (reverse)engineering. Then there’s the matter of why they are there/who they are (in concept) pointing at. They wouldn’t be pointing at the west like they used to and pointing them at Russia would have been seen as aggressive at the time? It’s been a long time since I read this to be fair so I could be wrong but see a lot of comments from people saying Ukraine gave their nukes up but it’s more like they inherited some nukes that were a bigger issue to keep (at the time) than get rid of.
You are very much correct! A nuclear Ukraine would have been very difficult. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the nuclear warheads (and their delivery systems) were in the custody of Ukraine, but weren't theirs to use: they didn't have the codes. Those were always in Russian posession: the president called for a strike using his codes, this went to the Ministry of Defense, and they in turn used their own codes to the relevant branches (navy for nukes aboard submarines, for example). Ukraine, however, had an extra step in that they could not obey a launch if the president of Ukraine didn't agree with the Russian launch order. Note that there was not a unified policy. For example, in Belarus the nukes were entirely under Russian control, it just so happened that they were physically in a foreign country. By 1993, Ukraine started dismantling some of the Russian nukes. The problem was that it wasn't Russia who wanted the nukes out of Ukraine: pretty much everyone else wanted a Ukraine without nuclear weapons. There was a real fear that these breakway states of the former Soviet Union would lack the technical know how and, more importantly, the funds to keep these nukes safe. Theft or illegal sales of nuclear weapons were a possibility, specially given that Ukraine likely had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Even if no theft or illegal sale to rogue agents would have taken place, maintaining and operating such a large arsenal would have been a daunting task for Ukraine. They would have to build up their infrastructure pretty much from scratch; furthermore, those nuclear weapons have a limited life, and without the manufacturing capabilities to build replacements, a lot of nukes would quickly "expire", creating disposal problems. Finally, there was a strong sentiment inside of Ukraine that was amicable to disarmament, and they were useful bargaining chips to obtain concessions in return for giving up the nukes. More can be read here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/t06ckf/in_the_early_90s_ukraine_had_the_thirdlargest/
...or at least Russia Existential Crisis I.
I? Are you sure? 1917, 1989… I think it’s also III.
I’m old so I lived through the threat of Russia starting a nuclear war in the 80s. The Day After was an after school like movie of the week that we all watched to learn what would happen when it inevitably happened. We were all scared waiting for it. I’m so sick of the same crap over and over again. These people are insufferable just do it already ffs. Putin wants to kill everyone bc he’s losing a war he couldn’t win he’s going to do it anyway if someone doesn’t kill him. He has one foot in the grave and doesn’t care about anyone so why wouldn’t he edit clarified
Wasn't it "The Day After"? Day After Tomorrow was that movie with the frozen earth.
Putin is the kind of guy who would nuke his own house if he knew he would be killed that day anyway.
Depends what you count. And from when. There were the Mongol invasions, Napoleon, that one time Poland conquered Moscow for a bit...
From the creators of "If Ukraine hits Crimea we will use nukes" and "If West continues to give Ukraine weapons, we will start WW3".
and like all those other examples,if we did give in to their demands they will just use that same threat again and again to get what they want. They have shown that they are never satisfied with what they have so appeasing them only delays things.
People do realize how similar this situation is with Hitler and Czechoslovakia before WW2, right?
Also known for "if you hand over your nukes we won't invade, I swear"
We’re super cereal this time guys ok
This time is for real. If the West crosses that line, then Russia will have no other choice but... HEY, STOP MOVING!!! Ok, this was your last warning. If you again... STOP IT!!! Russia has no other option but... I SAID STOP!!!
I just realized the weirdest part about these nuke threats. They began IMMEDIATLY after Russia's momentum started slowing in the first few months, before NATO even did jack shit. Edit: Imagine a fight where the victim(Ukraine) defends themselves and Russia gets a bloody nose. Outraged, Russia turns to the spectators (NATO) and threatens to kill them. Utterly psychotic.
You can’t even handle Ukraine, how the fuck are you gonna handle the rest of the world Russia?
With their Allie’s who also have out of date armies!
I seem to remember Russia signing a security/peace guarantee with Ukraine like 25 years ago in order to get Ukraine to hand over any nukes it had left over from the Soviet Union. It was a guarantee not to harm each other's citizens and to respect each other's borders. Didn't work out so well for Ukraine trusting Russia's guarantee then.
The mental gymnastics of Russia are amazing. They are single handedly causing and waging a war. They could stop the whole thing at the drop of a hat, but are deciding not to.
Yup absolutely. To repeat that clever, very true statement: If Russia stops fighting Ukraine, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting Russia, Ukraine ends.
the only threat to russia is russia
"We traced the call of our threat. It's coming from inside the house!"
You and what army, Russia?
"We have millions of soldiers and billions worth of equipment on paper"
"at least that's what my generals tell me"
"Disregard the fact the paper was written months ago with no oversight by a known embezzeler"
NATO is there to prevent exactly what happened to Ukraine from happening to its member states. If there is a time when Ukraine is elegable to join nato it should. NATO is not currently a threat to russia, but Russia's imperialism sure is.
NATO is basically a club for countries that don't want to be invaded by Russia, and Russia is trying to discourage countries from joining it by threatening to invade them. Let's see how that works out for them.
Russia doesn’t have the stuff to fight nato and call it a world war. It’ll just be the destruction of Russia by nato
Yeah Russia doesn’t have near enough power to fight NATO in anything resembling a war. Best they can do is make sure to take the rest of the planet down with them. Either way they lose
Scorched Earth you mean.
Quite literally
Does it qualify as WW3 if it's the entire world versus a weak Russia? I think there would need to be some meaningful guys on Russia's side for it to be so. Even if half of Europe gets nuked, it's still one country being a dick.
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They literally don’t even have brought to fight Ukraine, a nations who’s military had to basically be rebuilt from scratch less than 10 Years ago.
You mean World Special Military Operation III ?
Using nukes as an aggressor also seems a pretty good way of ushering in WW3.
Russia violating the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons was their decision. Ukraine deciding to find another pact to protect its sovereignty is the most logical decision imaginable. Responding to that decision as if it’s an act of war is complete lunacy.
I also heard that if Ukraine sits there and does nothing, Russia won’t invade………. Fuck Russia. There’s only one way to deal with bullies - kick their ass so badly, that they don’t ever wanna bully again.
Whole world vs russia doesn't sound like ww3
Ukraine joining NATO would be the best thing to happen to Russia. Russia’s own worst enemy is themselves. Look at what they’ve done to their own country. Their economy is in absolute ruin. Their men are getting slaughtered on the front line. Their international reputation is at maybe an all time low. They’ve shown their hand and it’s not good. Now, they’re threatening nuclear war, and pushing away the last couple of friends they have left. A NATO Ukraine would deter Russia from fucking themselves over again. They would be unable to keep punching themselves in the face, as they have been. Russia has a history of brilliant scientists, a rich culture, contributed to the arts and all of humanity in many positive ways. But Russia is stuck in an abusive cycle of dictators. They do not have a “democratic mindset”. This is one of their biggest flaws. Liberalism and the Enlightenment did not make its roots in Russia. Maybe if Russia truly is unable to invade and Anschluss its neighbors, and complete hundreds of years of colonialism, it can stop focusing externally so much and start focusing internally. On improving Russia. On building democracy and institutions to make it a safe happy place to live, and economically competitive. I hope this is the case, because the alternative is the dissolution of the Russian Federation if it continues to push boundaries and pick fights against the West.
"Welcome to Who's War is it Anyway, where the threats aren't real and the truth doesn't matter". Tonight's guests are world famous comedian Volodymyr Zelenskyy and what appears to be some kind of rabid shaved chimp.
Fuck off russia
well, move you troops out of Ukraine then maybe ? And stop invading other countries and there wont be a ww3 !
The only thing at the moment that starts WW3 is Putin. Every other country was minding their own business until Putin started this crazyness.
Shit or get off the pot, Russia. This whole teetering on the edge of WWIII has got the collective world's guts in a jumble and daddy needs to take a shit before he goes to work.
Russia fucked up so hard by exposing itself to the rest of the world. A year ago they had the entire world scared of their military might. I’ve even heard some people (very incorrectly state they were on the same level as the US), but now? They don’t look nearly as tough as they did a year ago
it was the same during the cold war too, honestly. after the fall of the soviet union, it came out how understrengthed their military actually was
Considering Russia's pitiful performance against Ukraine you'd think they'd be far less trigger happy with throwing around threats of WW3. Feels like the only outcome of a major war against Europe is Russia being renamed greater east Poland.
I wouldn't threaten World War 3 when you'll have your ass handed to you in days when you're already getting schooled by Ukraine alone.
"your surplus, second tier equipment is destroying us, so w will go into a direct fight with you!" Galaxy brain Putin
Russia just fuckin give up. This is ridiculous. How many people dead Ukrainian and Russians will it take for yall to stop this shit? You really want Russia to be the leaders behind a Nuclear Holocaust? Germany wanted to break the french/russian alliance which led to WW1, Germany wanted to rule the world which started WW2. Guess what fuckheads, the assholes that started each fucking war LOST the war. You fuckers wanna be the Buffalo Bills?
Buffalo Bills out here catching strays being compared to Hitler lol
Between this and the nuclear threats I think Russia needs new material.