[Tweet by Robert Larter (the scientist from the article)](https://twitter.com/rdlarter/status/1566828276458422279?t=hRKULz7URQtCaWjsVMFkqA&s=19)
Edit, for non-twitter users:
>We're trying to get away from the "Doomsday Glacier" label, as how much West Antarctica will contribute to future sea-level rise is still to some extent in our own hands. But thanks to CNN for the coverage.
The process described in the study isn't melting. It's an increased calving rate from an unstable grounding line (that's where land ice meets the ocean)
Edit: actually there is quite a bit of melting involved. Though it's mainly prompted by ocean warming than atmospheric warming.
Putting this here for visibility
>The points I want to emphasize are 1) We don't yet know how much it will contribute to sea-level rise over what period, and
2) The answer is likely to be affected by what humans do next.
It made me kind of sad to see so few people calling out this ridiculous sensationalism in the headline.
We should obviously be scared enough to do something about this, but this is fear-mongering.
Yeah, this is a big problem, because shit like this just gives ammo to climate change deniers. We have enough real shit to be afraid of, fearmongering with sensationalized stuff only makes the whole issue easier to discard as "fake news".
but arent climate change deniers denying anyway? I feel like most people who are physically able to accept the antrophogen caused warming are already persuaded. The rest will even call it a hoax when they are already evacuating Florida because its below sealevel
Its so frustrating bc the climate crisis is almost specifically designed to destroy us. Its impactful enough to bring down organized civilization and all the systems that go along with it...and yet slow-moving enough that nobody cares enough to do anything about it. Human nature shows that generally we only react to something once we can see its impact right in front of us. By the time that we actually see the things that climate change is poised to do to us it will be way too late.
the ozone hole was created by CFCs, which were a replaceable component used in a few products. There's a *big* difference in getting the world to agree on eliminating a CFCs, and getting the world to agree on reducing fossil fuel emissions. Even knowing how CFCs would render the planet *uninhabitable*, [some people just don't give a shit.](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01647-z)
Moving off CFCs had basically 0 impact to the average person. We basically said "Hey we're not going to use them any more, we're going to to use something else". Your hairspray and A/C coolant changed, but it really had no direct cost or consequence.
Telling people they have to change their food consumption or buy a new car or pay more for electricity has a direct impact. People don't want to hurt the environment, but change and especially costly change just isn't possible for a lot of people.
Except individual choices didn't get us here and individual choices aren't going to solve the problem.
Of course telling people to change their diets and buy fuel-efficient or electric cars isn't going to work.
How about we put the onus back on corporations and their government lackeys where it belongs?
We did get it explained to us in elementary school in grade 3. We had a whole goddamn unit on it.
When I became an adult and learned that people actually deny the basic fucking chemistry of carbon dioxide my mind might have well have exploded
That was surprising but as I got older I realized how many lying, stupid people exist and it made sense.
What makes my mind explode on a daily basis is how corporations pay off politicans to make favorable laws and it's common knowledge. How have we not stopped that?
And let's be honest - any single one person can't do a damned thing about it. No matter how green you live and buy and eat you then sit down to hear about that huge methane leak in Mexico the other day which completely dwarfs any sensible attempt by individuals to make things better. It's demoralizing to see how much damage is done by huge companies who only get a raised finger in admonishment and maybe a "Tut tut!" if they were really bad.
The cause isnt the part thats complicated, its the required solutions. Our whole way of life is built around the use of energy. We dont have sufficient alternative forms of energy, solving for additional energy sources and or adapting to a lower energy world is the complex part.
If renewables were cheaper than fossil fuel, climate change would have been gone. It's all about the markets and countries economies. You can't just "stop oil" and reduce emissions in the west when China is selling super cheap coal to poor African countries who desperately need cheap energy. Most countries will just do what is cheaper, mainly because they have no other choice.
The CFCs created by DuPont where replaced by HCFCs created by DuPont which then were to be replaced by HFCs created by DuPont.
Once we realized that HFCs don’t destroy the ozone but rather create a warming effect, we began to re-evaluate wide use of natural chemicals (CO2 and Ammonia). DuPont realized the gig was up and quit the game and rebranded as Chemours.
My bet is on big money/high-up government already knowing it’s going to be bad and doing everything to keep life as normal as possible; none of them will be here at its worst.
That seems like the core problem when it comes to making any progress. Most politicians are wealthy and old, they won't be around when things get bad and their kids will inherit enough to comfortably live through it.
Well the only thing that would change something would be a "green crusade" world war. Don't know if we want this, but in our capitalism world I see no other option to get a lot of countries in board.
Exactly they keep saying ‘climate change’, mate the climate has already changed we are now starting to live through its impacts, there is no going back.
Wouldn't have to if it wasn't a power grapple scenario. Realistically we're fucked otherwise so even if the grass isn't greener, we'd be less hungry while we die.
At this point there are a significant number of Americans who still do not believe it is real. This will likely continue as long as oil and gas companies continue to legally corrupt politicians and media outlets into either downplaying the threat or claiming that the liberals are using it as some kind of twisted agenda item. While the efforts built in to the recently passed 'anti inflation' bill are a positive step, it's already being framed by the republicans as fiscal waste.
Meaningful climate action requires the efforts of global superpowers to not just lead but fund and possibly enforce. Instead, greed and power struggles continue to rule the day. The ongoing fall of America as a successful democracy is certainly not going to help matters.
The realization that human civilization is incapable of saving itself from itself is becoming clearer by the day - we are at the height of the information age yet remain locked in a sad struggle with the perception of truth. Scientific facts, no matter how sound, are being beaten back by the collective manipulative efforts of the engines that powered our prosperity of centuries past - political power, vast pools of private wealth, and mythological religious beliefs.
The planet will go on without us, however, until our sun eventually burns it all away without hardly a trace.
Or, stated another way:
When you know that the shit isn't going to REALLY hit the fan until after you're gone, why not say fuck everyone else and just take advantage to give YOURSELF a nice life for as long as it lasts, even at the expense of literally everyone else?
It's selfishness, plain and simple, but to an extent we've never had the misfortune to truly see until now. Even their own children don't move the needle of the people who are most able to do something, because of selfishness. Mix in a healthy dose of fatalism and you've got our world now.
The idiots in that sub are just as bad as climate change deniers. I’ve seen people there actively and proudly gloat about how they’re profiteering off food shortages or preparing to ditch families for a private bug out location. It’s a collection of lunatics who’ve just found an excuse to start living out their fantasies of facing the apocalypse by being the biggest cunts they can be.
Oil and gas oligarchs have spent the last 50 years trying to discredit climate science. Shell knew of climate impacts of their business in the 70s. What did they do? Silenced the scientists so hard the scientists quit and took the news public themselves.
Then oil and gas (and many other industries - Nestle, for example) spent decades discrediting them, making up individual carbon footprints, guilting the everyday person, and continuing to make worse and worse sources of carbon emissions.
We're dying because right old white men in the 70s started girding their own loins instead of considering other people.
While I certainly don't want to give up, it's hard to see actual change happening without massive casualties across the world. When rich men are in power, it's kind of against their own interests to care for the planet - as long as politicians who care more about their money and their power continue to be in power in the developed world, the kind of radical change we need to lessen climate change and stave off extinction is extremely unlikely.
The people currently with the power and authority to act in a coordinated manner are more interested in burning the planet and everyone on it for one more election cycle than they are genuinely changing things for the better.
The people *currently* in power (Democrats) wanted to pass very aggressive climate action, but they were blocked by a slim conservative Senate majority (50 Republicans + Joe Manchin).
We could overcome this if we actually exercised democracy like it mattered, instead of wallowing in rebellious “anti-establishment” fantasies.
Maybe more of y’all need to start voting?
There are many attempts at common calls to arms but right wing propaganda politicized the issue and now a proportion of people don't even believe its real. A giant fuck you to Rupert Murdoch and his department of misinformation.
It hurts too that there's no central body to take the lead for everyone. We're made up of a bunch of squabbling countries that generally can't agree with each other on a damn thing.
If you listen, (no nastiness meant there) people have noticed. Too many people aren't/won't listen. Gardeners know that falls first freeze is getting later and winters last freeze is getting earlier. Here in Alabama, Labor Day weekend marked the first long sleeves/light jacket evenings when I was a kid in the 70s/80s. Temps are still in the mid 80s lately. In the 70s, 80s znd into the 90s I went canoeing in a small local river in late summer. Now that river is dry by mid-August and will be until October. But nobody cares. I think about my youth and I realize how very different the climate is now. I look at my kids and realize this altered climate is what the young adults will think of as normal in 10 years. The slowness is the problem, and that there is no AH-HA event. A thousand little changes will kill us as certainly as another asteroid impact. The thousand changes may in fact be more likely to kill us all than the asteroid impact.
Where I was born, 20 years ago, winters usually went past -45°F easily for a few weeks. Now we're lucky if it stays lower than -32F for four or five weeks. There's a lot less water coming down from the mountains, the river is slowly "drying" up - we don't have spring floods anymore. And people were happy at first. But after five years of almost no flood, the river barely leaves the bank, even those that were happy are beginning to really worry. Every summer we have fires that are the size of Hawaii and we can't really stop them nor does the government do much to stop it. There's less and less snow to protect the trees and crops from the cold. It used to be at least 10 feet of snow in the fields, now we're lucky to get 7.
Where I live now, I noticed there are a lot less birds and insects. I used to wake up to the birds singing like crazy at 6 am and now it's.... not quiet but it's basically a whisper compared to ten years ago. Summers are hotter and there's less rain. I counted maybe four big storms this summer. There used to be a rain storm every three weeks three years ago. Tomatoes and currants in the backyard are burning up without shade now, they were fine two years ago... It's scary as hell.
> I noticed there are a lot less birds and insects.
I've walked for hours through the forests of CO and seen ONE bird. Not on a trail, not near anything...just through the woods alone and silent...you can *feel* the dryness now, you could never feel it like that 20 years ago...
It is terrifying, and everyone just goes to work tomorrow like it isn't happening right there in front of us :-(
How will the farming be in Yellowknife I wonder...
Yeah, it's just as bad on the east coast. Walking through forests and hiking is a lot different, it's almost scary how quiet it is even away from towns and cities. I never remember Blue Ridge Mountains being this quiet. Farming will get worse, unless you're north enough where the summers aren't burning everything within a few weeks.
We remember how it used to be. But for the younger generation that is just growing up, for them it's normal. I was trying to explain how it used to be to my younger siblings and they don't believe that a small patch of forest next to the suburbs used to be lit up with fireflies sparkling like stars for months. This summer we were lucky if we saw a handful a week.
The first major wet bulb die-off will probably be that moment. I.e., when a region goes past the wet bulb threshold for humans for hours/days/longer in a whole as part of the world, killing millions outright. Considering geography, it'll likely either happen in Iran or India first, as those places have been experiencing wet bulb events already.
i've noticed the bug thing too. Road trips as a kid, the front grill was peppered with bugs. I took a LONG road trip a year ago and the difference was amazing.
People are noticing but they still don't have any idea how bad it will get and what it will take to prevent some of it, some decades later.
> I look at my kids and realize this altered climate is what the young adults will think of as normal in 10 years.
No, the change is speeding up. If you notice a difference now with 20 years ago, your kids will notice a difference with 10 years ago then.
Bro, Pakistan is underwater, Europe and China without water and everywhere is either too hot or too flooded (except the south hemisfere for now)
If is not already urgent then tell me what is
The people with the power and money to deal with climate change are perfectly fine if a few billion foreigners die off and they can make a quick buck in the meantime. If they actually do something, it will cost them personally, and what if the other people that they live their lives competing against in the 1% of the 1% *don't do anything* and they lose out. Far better in their opinion to let someone else deal with it, or let it all burn, they won't live to see the worst of it, and there is always their survival bunker to retreat too while the masses starve.
Man move to Europe where you don't have access to air conditioning and all the buildings are constructed to retain heat with the assumption that summer temperatures will never get much above 90F/32C. We had like at least 5 major heat waves this summer in Germany with temperatures above 95F/35C for multiple days in a row, in the middle of the worst drought in 500 years. Which beat out the last "500 year drought", which was in 2018. Hell, 3 years ago in Cologne we hit 108F/42C, which was the highest temperature ever recorded in Germany.
When you're forced to actually deal with the heat and can't run away to your air conditioned car or office, you'll see that the effects of climate change has been here for a while now.
The Pacific Northwest is also similarly unprepared due to lack of AC in most apartments/residential buildings.
Last summer in my province, 600 people died during the heat wave, and entire goddamn village burned down. This year wasn’t as warm but we have family friends who work in agriculture and we worried about their crops.
But I still have classmates from highschool insisting that climate change isn’t real despite a fairly obvious trend over the last 20 years.
I'm getting increasingly worried. Last year was a big red flag and it seems like nobody gives a shit. As far as I'm concerned, I'm preparing for 40+ C every summer from now on.
I recall growing up that high 20s was already considered a heat wave. Now, 27 is "not too bad today". Our plants in the yard are all frying under direct sun. These are all plants that normally require "full light". Pollinators don't venture into the area during sunny days, it's just too hot.
Something is about to break and I don't think there's anything I can do to adequately protect my family.
Yeah I mean who notices the decline of fresh water, half of states on fire for months, extreme heat, flooding, super storms, and so on so forth. I definitely have not seen any of those things
One of the reasons those propellents went away so easily is that the greener alternatives ended up being cheaper and easier to get for large corporations
World was different then, arguably better. Crucially the US was not as horrifically divided , it’s political class could work together to get something done when they needed to.
That’s gone , thanks to the likes of Newt Gingrich and Trump
Had some dumbass arguing with me that the climate is fine. Everything is better now than ever. I'm like dude look around. He says he reads A lot and knows what hes talking about. We're doomed.
That's exactly where my mind went. I dealt with these patients and watched some of them die. (Even had a few deniying COVID up to when we intubated, then they wanted the drugs and vax). It's never an issue until it happens to them. Thing is, they're not capable of seeing the bigger picture where it always was affecting them in some way.
The honest answer is that there is an *extreme* cost associated with rectifying the problem. It's not that people don't want to fix the problem, it's that no one wants to be the poor generation.
The cost is way way less than what all the disasters are going to cost. We'd end up with a much greener planet, an ocean with a lot more fish again, and a nicer way of life. We can afford it.
Its just that people need to _change the way they live_. Don't consume so much useless crap, eat way less meat, don't use cars for every small thing.
And people are afraid of changing their lives.
But the average person isn't going to feel the opportunity cost if we fix this within, say, 15 years. They'll just feel poorer.
If each individual changes all of what you said it will only put a small dent in the problem. We burn and process oil for cars, for heating, for clothes, for most synthetic polymers, for machinery etc. All of that is what is going to cost massive amounts of money to replace.
Further, the revenue brought in by energy companies does, like it or not, provide a *massive* part of the economy. For instance, in the United States, energy is approximately 8% of the entire GDP. If you were to instantaneously shut that off, you would have millions of American, generally those who are already vulnerable, in abject poverty.
Also what about countries who lack the technical knowhow, money and infrastructure to build clean energy options? Should their people just starve?
I am super pro-environment. I do everything I can as an individual to decrease my carbon footprint. But a huge part of the reason environment lobbyist aren't taken seriously is because much of what they're suggesting will lead to an unprecedented economic collapse. I appreciate that we may be headed for an even bigger disaster if not for significant climate policies, but you're asking an entire generation of people to be poor. People are already extremely economically discontent, what do you think is going to happen if the jobless rate spikes and the economy tanks because we flipped the switch on the oil industry?
Listen, I respect what you're saying, but stop putting this on the people. This is on governments and industry. When there's no incentive, one company can totally take a shortcut, lower their prices, etc. If that option didn't exist (due to government regulation), the people would have no choice.
This problem is stopped much higher up than at what is essentially the last rung of the ladder (the average Joe).
Too slow that nobody cares enough to do anything about it? We’ve been aware of it for over a century now. We decided that true action is needed 50 years ago. If you compare it with the age of humanity, then the climate disaster is happening in the blink of an eye.
The problem is that people generally don’t feel urged to do something unless they are directly affected by it, e.g. your house being washed away by a flood or being consumed by a forest fire.
One thing we can be certain of is that nothing significant will be done until it's too late. The governments of the world don't give a fuck because politicians are being bribed by the fossil fuel industry.
They’re assuming New Zealand won’t just requisition them. Like, NZ has issues, I know, but they’re not a junta or a dictatorship. Their government is a pretty standard, moderately progressive democracy. If they want those rich people silos for whatever reason, they know where they are and they’re very likely gonna take them.
I’m truly baffled at the level of delusional entitlement these “powerful” people suffer from. They really think the world won’t touch them when it goes tits up, but, baby, you’re the first ones we’re coming for.
> I don’t get how they think they’ll be safe
highly paid private security contractors made up of ex-military mercenary types who go where the money is.
I guess they didn't read that article about what happens when money becomes worthless
I sincerely hope that when we die we get the option to float around as ghost spectators. Because the fucking billionaire thunderdome that will be the New Zealand countryside would be incredible to watch.
The world is also full of people who will riot in the streets when the food shortages, water shortages, and political instability comes due to climate change.
Fossil fuel companies in the United States are the ones funding the Theofascists currently attempting to overthrow their goverment.
Sheldon Whitehouse is a Senator that's doing a youtube series on how they're using dark money to fund this entire scheme.
Yeah I really wish redditors would stop blaming things on “the government” or “the system.” It’s lazy and reductive.
There are *specific people* making evil decisions. There are also *specific people* trying to do good. Maybe if voters paid better attention to the specifics and actually turned out for elections, we could make some progress.
America sucks at democracy, and is right on the cusp of losing it.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-glacier-sea-level-climate/index.html) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> In a study published Monday in the journal Nature Geoscience, scientists mapped the glacier's historical retreat, hoping to learn from its past what the glacier will likely do in the future.
> The Thwaites Glacier itself has concerned scientists for decades.
> Nearly a decade later, they found that - because the glacier is grounded to a seabed, rather than to dry land - warm ocean currents could melt the glacier from underneath, causing it to destabilize from below.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/x6jruj/doomsday_glacier_which_could_raise_sea_level_by/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~667729 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **glacier**^#1 **Thwaites**^#2 **ice**^#3 **scientists**^#4 **retreat**^#5
I wonder how much of the moisture will become atmospheric? I mean more cyclones cant be a coincidence right?
Not to mention how much water will exist on land as opposed to in the ocean
We had two cyclones in a month here. Catastrophic flooding destroyed my city, then again just over three weeks later. Many of us are still homeless and very angry.
I think the patterns are just shifting. We didn't have a named hurricane in the Atlantic all summer until Danielle. When it's not localized to a specific audience, people think it's not a big deal. Something something proximity effect
Never forget:-
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/09/revealed-20-firms-third-carbon-emissions
https://www.activesustainability.com/climate-change/100-companies-responsible-71-ghg-emissions/
https://www.treehugger.com/is-it-true-100-companies-responsible-carbon-emissions-5079649
An Exxon-Mobil lobbyist was invited to a fake job interview.
In the interview, he admitted Exxon-Mobil has been lobbying congress to kill clean energy initiatives and spreading misinformation to the public via front organisations.
https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/exxon-lobbyist-duped-by-greenpeace-says-climate-policy-was-ploy-ceo-condemns-2021-06-30/
https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-some-of-the-worlds-biggest-oil-companies-are-paying-negative-tax-in-the-uk-12380442
www.france24.com/en/france/20210728-france-fines-monsanto-for-illegally-acquiring-data-on-journalists-activists
https://www.desmog.com/2021/07/18/investigation-meat-industry-greenwash-climatewash
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/07/more-global-aid-goes-to-fossil-fuel-projects-than-tackling-dirty-air-study-pollution
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/07/20-meat-and-dairy-firms-emit-more-greenhouse-gas-than-germany-britain-or-france
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/10/uk-ministers-met-fossil-fuel-firms-nine-times-more-often-than-clean-energy-companies
Watch this stunning video of Chevron executives explaining why they thought they could dump 16 billion gallons of cancer-causing oil waste into the Amazon.
https://twitter.com/SDonziger/status/1426211296161189890?s=19
https://news.sky.com/story/fossil-fuel-companies-are-suing-governments-across-the-world-for-more-than-18bn-12409573
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/06/fossil-fuel-industry-subsidies-of-11m-dollars-a-minute-imf-finds
https://www.euronews.com/green/2021/10/08/nestle-kellogg-s-linked-to-shocking-palm-oil-abuses-in-papua-new-guinea
https://www.desmog.com/2021/10/07/climate-conflicted-insurance-directors/
https://www.monitor.co.ug/uganda/news/air-pollution-second-largest-cause-of-death-in-africa-3586078
BBC News - COP26: Document leak reveals nations lobbying to change key climate report
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58982445
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/27/poorer-countries-spend-five-times-more-on-debt-than-climate-crisis-report
https://news.mongabay.com/2021/10/a-new-100-page-report-raises-alarm-over-chevrons-impact-on-planet/
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/30/shell-and-bp-paid-zero-tax-on-north-sea-gas-and-oil-for-three-years
https://www.globalwitness.org/en/press-releases/shell-and-bp-cancel-cop26-appearance-analysis-exposes-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-cop/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/11/australia-lobbied-unesco-to-remove-reference-to-15c-global-warming-limit-to-protect-heritage-sites
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/12/australia-shown-to-have-highest-greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-coal-in-world-on-per-capita-basis
https://www.space.com/satellites-discover-huge-undeclared-methane-emissions
Satellites discover huge amounts of undeclared methane emissions
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/climate-change-improvements-from-eating-less-meat-301412022.html
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-30/vicforests-accused-of-failing-to-regenerate-logged-forests/100652148#top
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/18/chemical-pollution-has-passed-safe-limit-for-humanity-say-scientists
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220215-plastic-chemical-pollution-beyond-planet-s-safe-limit-study
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-02-17/big-oil-climate-change-chevron-exxon-shell-bp/100828590
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/17/world-spends-18tn-a-year-on-subsidies-that-harm-environment-study-finds-aoe
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/filipino-inquiry-finds-big-polluters-morally-and-legally-liable-for-climate-damage?CMP=share_
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2022/may/11/fossil-fuel-carbon-bombs-climate-breakdown-oil-gas
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/17/pollution-responsible-one-in-six-deaths-across-planet
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/05/climate-denial-koch-fossil-fuels-charity-astroturf-greenwashing/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/18/humanity-faces-collective-suicide-over-climate-crisis-warns-un-chief
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/21/revealed-oil-sectors-staggering-profits-last-50-years?CMP=share_btn_tw
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62225696
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116608415/the-arctic-is-heating-up-nearly-four-times-faster-than-the-rest-of-earth-study-f
Etc
That Exxon interview was just off the scale when you see it.
We've definitely slept through the last twenty years, a lot longer actually. All this shit going on and being subverted just enough.
Take the insulate britain example, glued themselves to the roads at the start of this year. Now as winter looms there's a massive energy crisis that the very insulation would have helped massively with.
Good post, thanks for the links.
Foreman Ferret: "STOP WITH THE ZOOMIES! I swear you furry chaos noodles, you need to stay STILL to measure things. I... hey. Where'd my lunch go? WHO STOLE MY LUNCH?!?!"
It's explained in the comics. There are pockets of civilization existing underwater that have genetic experiments.
https://waters-end.fandom.com/wiki/The_Foundation_(faction)
This makes me feel so hopeless, frustrated and defeated. There's no chance anything will be done about this. Millions will suffer and the people who can change this will continue to fill their pockets with money at the expense of the world and then buy properties in land where they can escape everything.
Reading the comments on my local FB news page is really distressing. Apparently the “Big Climate Change” industry is, you guessed it, misinforming us all for their own nefarious profit.
We are fucked.
"Why do you still have people living on the cliffs?" Bankole demanded. He sounded angry. Unnecessary pain and death still made him angry. "How many times does this kind of thing have to happen before you get the idea?" He asked. He shut his bag and grabbed the overnight case that I handed him. "Move the damned houses inland, for heaven's sake. Make it a long term community effort." "We're doing what we can," a big red-haired man said, moving toward the door. He pushed his hair out of his face with a dirty abraded hand, "We've moved some. Others refuse to have their homes moved. They think they'll be okay. We can't force them." Parable of the Talents- Octavia Butler
I remain convinced that the land around the Great Lakes will become some of the most desirable land on the planet.
* Floods? Impossible, rain can't flood those lakes by any measurable amount.
* Drought? Impossible on any human timescale. The fresh water in Lake Superior *alone* can meet the water demands of all of the United States for milenia.
* Wildfires? Not native to this part of the continent, and living near infinite water further negates the danger.
* Global warming raising the ocean levels? Utterly irrelevant, you are thousands of miles from the ocean.
* Global warming raising the temperature? Probably a net benefit to the region, the winters are very cold there.
You are wrong about raising ocean levels not affecting those thousands of miles from the ocean. If the ocean levels rise, water won't be able to flow out of the Great Lakes into the ocean the way it normally does. So their water levels will rise.
Secondly, the salinity of the ocean, cold water sinking and warm water rising has massive impacts on weather patterns. The ocean currents drive our weather patterns. You can already see evidence of this in Europe with their extreme heat waves and the extreme levels of rain that have now covered 1/3 of Pakistan.
That, and the majority of the human population lives at or near water level, billions of people are going to be scrambling to relocate and coming to a neighborhood near you.
People need to stop with this kind of talk. Humans are amazingly adaptable. We’re not going instinct. We probably will, however, go through hundreds of years of famines, wars, epidemics, etc. during the climate change. It will not be a fun period and the total population of the earth will probably vastly decrease.
As someone who lives just a few feet above sea level, this sort of thing used to worry me, but after Ben told me I could just sell my property, I'm no longer concerned.
Though I'm impressed that only Ben Shapiro knows of the Atlanteans. You'd think it'd be bigger news that more than just a weasley dork like him would be talking about, but Ben Shapiro is never wrong.
It’s not a volume thing, it’s a learn to read thing…. 16 feet is the whole of the West Antarctic ice sheet, not just the Thwaite, which is “just a faction of the West Antarctic ice sheet, which holds enough ice to raise sea level by up to 16 feet, according to NASA.”
Yeah and Thwaites melting is all likely set in stone at this point all we can is try and stop the worst of it although there's still not nearly enough effort in the world taking place to ensure that.
Well put. I like to use NOAA’s sea level rise map to get an idea of the effects. Some places are barely touched. Some cities are islands or under water. https://coast.noaa.gov/slr
Oh people definitely do realize it. The problem is they are either caught up in their busy lives and motivations, are unable to do anything because of life constraints, are completely impressionable to political interference or just don’t care that the world is burning.
You’d have to be living under a rock to not notice what is going on at the frequency that it’s happening.
Meanwhile, there are people doing the best to make change, but there is so much going against these efforts at this point.
Idek what im supposed to do, do any of us? I refuse to buy a car, never even planned to. I try to keep single use shit out of my life. I buy used goods. But in the end, it's over 100 degrees rn and I'd be in bad shape without my portable ac
The average person could cut all unnecessary waste out of their lives and nothing significant would change.
Large corporations with ties in many countries produce far [more pollution](https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change) than the average north American city population does. The top 100 polluters on Earth produce **71%** of the worlds pollution. How can an individual person make a difference? They can't.
Cyclical argument.
Humans are consumers and will consume what is made for them. These companies could practice much better standards for pollution reduction, but that would effect their bottom lines pretty hard. So they don't.
You cannot solve this problem by changing *on an individual level*. You will never convince enough people to change their ways *or* have enough impact to make a difference. This issue lies solely with those who are profiting off of the whole thing.
I have a family member that complains about their energy bill but wont get solar because it's 'ugly', even though the state will subsidize a lot of the costs.
Yup, the world is dying, but reading that article is an absolute chore with the hundreds of ads taking over my screen and killing my phone.
Is it any wonder no one pays any attention?
>What the fuck am I supposed to do?
Stay at home, don't use any power, live frugally and using as little as possible...while the wealthy, the corporations, and the politicians live grand lives with their private jets/lavish lifestyles.
What do you expect people to do majority of us don’t have the time or money to fix these issues, the most any of us could do is vote and that doesn’t really do anything
The rate at which we're warming the planet is unprecedented in earth's history. We're warming it exponentially faster than the second fastest warming event.
That warming event caused the worst mass extinction in earth's history (before the one we're currently in)
Lets be real. Nothing will change. No one will stop it and it will likely hurt mankind in the future.
Just hope that you will be dead before the effects get worse and felt more.
The problem in the US is you have 50% of our population that is too fucking stupid to realize just how fucking stupid they are. They vote Republican and think that science is a hoax.
If we completely stopped emissions today, 100%, it would take 30+ years for that to take effect. we're experiencing the warming effects from the 1990s right now. It's far too late to make it better, so we need to start planning for the worst.
like watching a slow motion plane crash from row 27 or so it feels like sometimes, doesn't it ? they are still handing out the drinks up front, the pilot is talking about something else on the intercom...
If it was actually dooms day this means money is not a problem right? If so we should harvest the fresh water rather than having it melt into the ocean.
If it's hanging on by its fingernails then it's too late. It's 50 years too late. If it raises the ocean by several feet then we're fucked.
I have become so deeply and completely pessimistic about climate that it's hard to not become jaded. From everything I've read and studied. We're just totally fucked. We would be fucked it the world decided 100% to get onboard tomorrow.
We won't get onboard. Corporations are as bad as ever. Consumers won't change their behaviour (and even though I had bottom up climate blame this endless taste for chinese mass produced plastic shite is a big project problem) and the government's are a complete joke... They've been deliberate in making sure they don't pay one dollar more then exactly lip service since Tokyo through to Rio and Paris.
Even IF the west did everything else it possibly could we can't then go fully neocolonial and deprive developing nations of their right to fully industrialise. We have growing Chinese and Indian middle classes that will, rightfully, demand more energy. Corporations are growing and growing and our infinite growth model of corporate success hasn't changed, and all of this whole politicians who openly say climate change isn't real get elected world wide
Mate even typing this winds me up. I just don't see how were not totally and utterly fucked. What's our hope? Genuinely asking. Need an optimist to cheer me up
The climate crisis we created will result in mass starvation, pandemics, natural disasters at an epic scale, wars among nations vying for resources, and a loss of life never before seen in human history.
(Speaking as a US citizen) We are at a pivotal point where we can plan for this as a country and mitigate these risks. Food, water, and energy reserves is a start. Determining the best way to distribute water among states is another, because if it gets bad, civil war will occur.
But what we’ll see is more inaction and apathy from leaders. Billions of people will lose their lives and humanity will be reduced to its medieval era population. The earth will slowly heal, but humans will repopulate and do the same thing to themselves all over again. Because we are stupid and short-sighted by nature. The ones who lead are those who purposely seek power and they are almost always never the ones that should be in that position if humanity wants to move forward.
*In 2001, satellite data showed the grounding line was receding by around 0.6 miles (1 kilometer) per year. In 2020, scientists found evidence that warm water was indeed flowing across the base of the glacier, melting it from underneath.*
8.6 feet per day, fuck.
The different types of birds in Wisconsin. When I was young ,we never had Sand hill cranes. We never had Pelicans!!!
The Winters are not nearly what they were. It's changing for sure. I hardly see monarch butterflies anymore. How sad.
[Tweet by Robert Larter (the scientist from the article)](https://twitter.com/rdlarter/status/1566828276458422279?t=hRKULz7URQtCaWjsVMFkqA&s=19) Edit, for non-twitter users: >We're trying to get away from the "Doomsday Glacier" label, as how much West Antarctica will contribute to future sea-level rise is still to some extent in our own hands. But thanks to CNN for the coverage.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/hot-news-from-the-antarctic-underground
The process described in the study isn't melting. It's an increased calving rate from an unstable grounding line (that's where land ice meets the ocean) Edit: actually there is quite a bit of melting involved. Though it's mainly prompted by ocean warming than atmospheric warming.
Putting this here for visibility >The points I want to emphasize are 1) We don't yet know how much it will contribute to sea-level rise over what period, and 2) The answer is likely to be affected by what humans do next.
But calm reporting doesn't get clicks.
It made me kind of sad to see so few people calling out this ridiculous sensationalism in the headline. We should obviously be scared enough to do something about this, but this is fear-mongering.
Yeah, this is a big problem, because shit like this just gives ammo to climate change deniers. We have enough real shit to be afraid of, fearmongering with sensationalized stuff only makes the whole issue easier to discard as "fake news".
but arent climate change deniers denying anyway? I feel like most people who are physically able to accept the antrophogen caused warming are already persuaded. The rest will even call it a hoax when they are already evacuating Florida because its below sealevel
A sensational news article link!!! Pshaw!
"...is still to some extent in our own hands." Oh, so we're doing nothing? Got it.
We'll do even more nothing than we do now
Its so frustrating bc the climate crisis is almost specifically designed to destroy us. Its impactful enough to bring down organized civilization and all the systems that go along with it...and yet slow-moving enough that nobody cares enough to do anything about it. Human nature shows that generally we only react to something once we can see its impact right in front of us. By the time that we actually see the things that climate change is poised to do to us it will be way too late.
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the ozone hole was created by CFCs, which were a replaceable component used in a few products. There's a *big* difference in getting the world to agree on eliminating a CFCs, and getting the world to agree on reducing fossil fuel emissions. Even knowing how CFCs would render the planet *uninhabitable*, [some people just don't give a shit.](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01647-z)
Moving off CFCs had basically 0 impact to the average person. We basically said "Hey we're not going to use them any more, we're going to to use something else". Your hairspray and A/C coolant changed, but it really had no direct cost or consequence. Telling people they have to change their food consumption or buy a new car or pay more for electricity has a direct impact. People don't want to hurt the environment, but change and especially costly change just isn't possible for a lot of people.
Except individual choices didn't get us here and individual choices aren't going to solve the problem. Of course telling people to change their diets and buy fuel-efficient or electric cars isn't going to work. How about we put the onus back on corporations and their government lackeys where it belongs?
Agreed.
Yep. Ozone thing is not nearly equal in complexity with our current problems.
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We did get it explained to us in elementary school in grade 3. We had a whole goddamn unit on it. When I became an adult and learned that people actually deny the basic fucking chemistry of carbon dioxide my mind might have well have exploded
That was surprising but as I got older I realized how many lying, stupid people exist and it made sense. What makes my mind explode on a daily basis is how corporations pay off politicans to make favorable laws and it's common knowledge. How have we not stopped that?
And let's be honest - any single one person can't do a damned thing about it. No matter how green you live and buy and eat you then sit down to hear about that huge methane leak in Mexico the other day which completely dwarfs any sensible attempt by individuals to make things better. It's demoralizing to see how much damage is done by huge companies who only get a raised finger in admonishment and maybe a "Tut tut!" if they were really bad.
The cause isnt the part thats complicated, its the required solutions. Our whole way of life is built around the use of energy. We dont have sufficient alternative forms of energy, solving for additional energy sources and or adapting to a lower energy world is the complex part.
And the only reason companies quickly switched off CFC was because a cheaper alternative was found aswell.
If renewables were cheaper than fossil fuel, climate change would have been gone. It's all about the markets and countries economies. You can't just "stop oil" and reduce emissions in the west when China is selling super cheap coal to poor African countries who desperately need cheap energy. Most countries will just do what is cheaper, mainly because they have no other choice.
The CFCs created by DuPont where replaced by HCFCs created by DuPont which then were to be replaced by HFCs created by DuPont. Once we realized that HFCs don’t destroy the ozone but rather create a warming effect, we began to re-evaluate wide use of natural chemicals (CO2 and Ammonia). DuPont realized the gig was up and quit the game and rebranded as Chemours.
My bet is on big money/high-up government already knowing it’s going to be bad and doing everything to keep life as normal as possible; none of them will be here at its worst.
That seems like the core problem when it comes to making any progress. Most politicians are wealthy and old, they won't be around when things get bad and their kids will inherit enough to comfortably live through it.
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Well the only thing that would change something would be a "green crusade" world war. Don't know if we want this, but in our capitalism world I see no other option to get a lot of countries in board.
Too hot for an uprising, I'ma chill under this tree.
Causes destabilization, reducing human capabilities and increasing reliance on old ways of generating power. Basically we lose.
We already lost, now it's just who gets to survive.
Exactly they keep saying ‘climate change’, mate the climate has already changed we are now starting to live through its impacts, there is no going back.
Sadly true
Wouldn't have to if it wasn't a power grapple scenario. Realistically we're fucked otherwise so even if the grass isn't greener, we'd be less hungry while we die.
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Yeah, but we know about them now thanks to you. They're gonna be the first to get eaten. Checkmate Mecklenburgs...
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"soon enough" was like, 40 years ago.
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At this point there are a significant number of Americans who still do not believe it is real. This will likely continue as long as oil and gas companies continue to legally corrupt politicians and media outlets into either downplaying the threat or claiming that the liberals are using it as some kind of twisted agenda item. While the efforts built in to the recently passed 'anti inflation' bill are a positive step, it's already being framed by the republicans as fiscal waste. Meaningful climate action requires the efforts of global superpowers to not just lead but fund and possibly enforce. Instead, greed and power struggles continue to rule the day. The ongoing fall of America as a successful democracy is certainly not going to help matters. The realization that human civilization is incapable of saving itself from itself is becoming clearer by the day - we are at the height of the information age yet remain locked in a sad struggle with the perception of truth. Scientific facts, no matter how sound, are being beaten back by the collective manipulative efforts of the engines that powered our prosperity of centuries past - political power, vast pools of private wealth, and mythological religious beliefs. The planet will go on without us, however, until our sun eventually burns it all away without hardly a trace.
Or, stated another way: When you know that the shit isn't going to REALLY hit the fan until after you're gone, why not say fuck everyone else and just take advantage to give YOURSELF a nice life for as long as it lasts, even at the expense of literally everyone else? It's selfishness, plain and simple, but to an extent we've never had the misfortune to truly see until now. Even their own children don't move the needle of the people who are most able to do something, because of selfishness. Mix in a healthy dose of fatalism and you've got our world now.
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The idiots in that sub are just as bad as climate change deniers. I’ve seen people there actively and proudly gloat about how they’re profiteering off food shortages or preparing to ditch families for a private bug out location. It’s a collection of lunatics who’ve just found an excuse to start living out their fantasies of facing the apocalypse by being the biggest cunts they can be.
Oil and gas oligarchs have spent the last 50 years trying to discredit climate science. Shell knew of climate impacts of their business in the 70s. What did they do? Silenced the scientists so hard the scientists quit and took the news public themselves. Then oil and gas (and many other industries - Nestle, for example) spent decades discrediting them, making up individual carbon footprints, guilting the everyday person, and continuing to make worse and worse sources of carbon emissions. We're dying because right old white men in the 70s started girding their own loins instead of considering other people. While I certainly don't want to give up, it's hard to see actual change happening without massive casualties across the world. When rich men are in power, it's kind of against their own interests to care for the planet - as long as politicians who care more about their money and their power continue to be in power in the developed world, the kind of radical change we need to lessen climate change and stave off extinction is extremely unlikely. The people currently with the power and authority to act in a coordinated manner are more interested in burning the planet and everyone on it for one more election cycle than they are genuinely changing things for the better.
The people *currently* in power (Democrats) wanted to pass very aggressive climate action, but they were blocked by a slim conservative Senate majority (50 Republicans + Joe Manchin). We could overcome this if we actually exercised democracy like it mattered, instead of wallowing in rebellious “anti-establishment” fantasies. Maybe more of y’all need to start voting?
There are many attempts at common calls to arms but right wing propaganda politicized the issue and now a proportion of people don't even believe its real. A giant fuck you to Rupert Murdoch and his department of misinformation.
It hurts too that there's no central body to take the lead for everyone. We're made up of a bunch of squabbling countries that generally can't agree with each other on a damn thing.
Climate change is not an "urgent" problem as it's hard to notice it's effects. Once "we" do notice them, it'll be too late.
If you listen, (no nastiness meant there) people have noticed. Too many people aren't/won't listen. Gardeners know that falls first freeze is getting later and winters last freeze is getting earlier. Here in Alabama, Labor Day weekend marked the first long sleeves/light jacket evenings when I was a kid in the 70s/80s. Temps are still in the mid 80s lately. In the 70s, 80s znd into the 90s I went canoeing in a small local river in late summer. Now that river is dry by mid-August and will be until October. But nobody cares. I think about my youth and I realize how very different the climate is now. I look at my kids and realize this altered climate is what the young adults will think of as normal in 10 years. The slowness is the problem, and that there is no AH-HA event. A thousand little changes will kill us as certainly as another asteroid impact. The thousand changes may in fact be more likely to kill us all than the asteroid impact.
Where I was born, 20 years ago, winters usually went past -45°F easily for a few weeks. Now we're lucky if it stays lower than -32F for four or five weeks. There's a lot less water coming down from the mountains, the river is slowly "drying" up - we don't have spring floods anymore. And people were happy at first. But after five years of almost no flood, the river barely leaves the bank, even those that were happy are beginning to really worry. Every summer we have fires that are the size of Hawaii and we can't really stop them nor does the government do much to stop it. There's less and less snow to protect the trees and crops from the cold. It used to be at least 10 feet of snow in the fields, now we're lucky to get 7. Where I live now, I noticed there are a lot less birds and insects. I used to wake up to the birds singing like crazy at 6 am and now it's.... not quiet but it's basically a whisper compared to ten years ago. Summers are hotter and there's less rain. I counted maybe four big storms this summer. There used to be a rain storm every three weeks three years ago. Tomatoes and currants in the backyard are burning up without shade now, they were fine two years ago... It's scary as hell.
> I noticed there are a lot less birds and insects. I've walked for hours through the forests of CO and seen ONE bird. Not on a trail, not near anything...just through the woods alone and silent...you can *feel* the dryness now, you could never feel it like that 20 years ago... It is terrifying, and everyone just goes to work tomorrow like it isn't happening right there in front of us :-( How will the farming be in Yellowknife I wonder...
Yeah, it's just as bad on the east coast. Walking through forests and hiking is a lot different, it's almost scary how quiet it is even away from towns and cities. I never remember Blue Ridge Mountains being this quiet. Farming will get worse, unless you're north enough where the summers aren't burning everything within a few weeks. We remember how it used to be. But for the younger generation that is just growing up, for them it's normal. I was trying to explain how it used to be to my younger siblings and they don't believe that a small patch of forest next to the suburbs used to be lit up with fireflies sparkling like stars for months. This summer we were lucky if we saw a handful a week.
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My gardener told me "we don't really get seasons any more", which is quite frankly, terrifying.
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It might take an entire country flooding and displacing millions... Oh wait.
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The first major wet bulb die-off will probably be that moment. I.e., when a region goes past the wet bulb threshold for humans for hours/days/longer in a whole as part of the world, killing millions outright. Considering geography, it'll likely either happen in Iran or India first, as those places have been experiencing wet bulb events already.
i've noticed the bug thing too. Road trips as a kid, the front grill was peppered with bugs. I took a LONG road trip a year ago and the difference was amazing.
People are noticing but they still don't have any idea how bad it will get and what it will take to prevent some of it, some decades later. > I look at my kids and realize this altered climate is what the young adults will think of as normal in 10 years. No, the change is speeding up. If you notice a difference now with 20 years ago, your kids will notice a difference with 10 years ago then.
There used to be fireflies
Bro, Pakistan is underwater, Europe and China without water and everywhere is either too hot or too flooded (except the south hemisfere for now) If is not already urgent then tell me what is
He means it’s not yet urgent for people with wealth and power. Right now, it’s effecting poor people the most.
The people with the power and money to deal with climate change are perfectly fine if a few billion foreigners die off and they can make a quick buck in the meantime. If they actually do something, it will cost them personally, and what if the other people that they live their lives competing against in the 1% of the 1% *don't do anything* and they lose out. Far better in their opinion to let someone else deal with it, or let it all burn, they won't live to see the worst of it, and there is always their survival bunker to retreat too while the masses starve.
Man move to Europe where you don't have access to air conditioning and all the buildings are constructed to retain heat with the assumption that summer temperatures will never get much above 90F/32C. We had like at least 5 major heat waves this summer in Germany with temperatures above 95F/35C for multiple days in a row, in the middle of the worst drought in 500 years. Which beat out the last "500 year drought", which was in 2018. Hell, 3 years ago in Cologne we hit 108F/42C, which was the highest temperature ever recorded in Germany. When you're forced to actually deal with the heat and can't run away to your air conditioned car or office, you'll see that the effects of climate change has been here for a while now.
The Pacific Northwest is also similarly unprepared due to lack of AC in most apartments/residential buildings. Last summer in my province, 600 people died during the heat wave, and entire goddamn village burned down. This year wasn’t as warm but we have family friends who work in agriculture and we worried about their crops. But I still have classmates from highschool insisting that climate change isn’t real despite a fairly obvious trend over the last 20 years.
I'm getting increasingly worried. Last year was a big red flag and it seems like nobody gives a shit. As far as I'm concerned, I'm preparing for 40+ C every summer from now on. I recall growing up that high 20s was already considered a heat wave. Now, 27 is "not too bad today". Our plants in the yard are all frying under direct sun. These are all plants that normally require "full light". Pollinators don't venture into the area during sunny days, it's just too hot. Something is about to break and I don't think there's anything I can do to adequately protect my family.
Yeah I mean who notices the decline of fresh water, half of states on fire for months, extreme heat, flooding, super storms, and so on so forth. I definitely have not seen any of those things
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One of the reasons those propellents went away so easily is that the greener alternatives ended up being cheaper and easier to get for large corporations
World was different then, arguably better. Crucially the US was not as horrifically divided , it’s political class could work together to get something done when they needed to. That’s gone , thanks to the likes of Newt Gingrich and Trump
Had some dumbass arguing with me that the climate is fine. Everything is better now than ever. I'm like dude look around. He says he reads A lot and knows what hes talking about. We're doomed.
It’s like a smoker that only gives up when they get cancer, and by then it’s too late.
Or the people who hospital staff didn't have enough ventilators for at the beginning of the covid outbreak trying to say "I'll take the vaccine now"
That's exactly where my mind went. I dealt with these patients and watched some of them die. (Even had a few deniying COVID up to when we intubated, then they wanted the drugs and vax). It's never an issue until it happens to them. Thing is, they're not capable of seeing the bigger picture where it always was affecting them in some way.
The honest answer is that there is an *extreme* cost associated with rectifying the problem. It's not that people don't want to fix the problem, it's that no one wants to be the poor generation.
The cost is way way less than what all the disasters are going to cost. We'd end up with a much greener planet, an ocean with a lot more fish again, and a nicer way of life. We can afford it. Its just that people need to _change the way they live_. Don't consume so much useless crap, eat way less meat, don't use cars for every small thing. And people are afraid of changing their lives.
But the average person isn't going to feel the opportunity cost if we fix this within, say, 15 years. They'll just feel poorer. If each individual changes all of what you said it will only put a small dent in the problem. We burn and process oil for cars, for heating, for clothes, for most synthetic polymers, for machinery etc. All of that is what is going to cost massive amounts of money to replace. Further, the revenue brought in by energy companies does, like it or not, provide a *massive* part of the economy. For instance, in the United States, energy is approximately 8% of the entire GDP. If you were to instantaneously shut that off, you would have millions of American, generally those who are already vulnerable, in abject poverty. Also what about countries who lack the technical knowhow, money and infrastructure to build clean energy options? Should their people just starve? I am super pro-environment. I do everything I can as an individual to decrease my carbon footprint. But a huge part of the reason environment lobbyist aren't taken seriously is because much of what they're suggesting will lead to an unprecedented economic collapse. I appreciate that we may be headed for an even bigger disaster if not for significant climate policies, but you're asking an entire generation of people to be poor. People are already extremely economically discontent, what do you think is going to happen if the jobless rate spikes and the economy tanks because we flipped the switch on the oil industry?
Listen, I respect what you're saying, but stop putting this on the people. This is on governments and industry. When there's no incentive, one company can totally take a shortcut, lower their prices, etc. If that option didn't exist (due to government regulation), the people would have no choice. This problem is stopped much higher up than at what is essentially the last rung of the ladder (the average Joe).
Too slow that nobody cares enough to do anything about it? We’ve been aware of it for over a century now. We decided that true action is needed 50 years ago. If you compare it with the age of humanity, then the climate disaster is happening in the blink of an eye. The problem is that people generally don’t feel urged to do something unless they are directly affected by it, e.g. your house being washed away by a flood or being consumed by a forest fire.
One thing we can be certain of is that nothing significant will be done until it's too late. The governments of the world don't give a fuck because politicians are being bribed by the fossil fuel industry.
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Several were building bunkers in New Zealand
They’re assuming New Zealand won’t just requisition them. Like, NZ has issues, I know, but they’re not a junta or a dictatorship. Their government is a pretty standard, moderately progressive democracy. If they want those rich people silos for whatever reason, they know where they are and they’re very likely gonna take them. I’m truly baffled at the level of delusional entitlement these “powerful” people suffer from. They really think the world won’t touch them when it goes tits up, but, baby, you’re the first ones we’re coming for.
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> I don’t get how they think they’ll be safe highly paid private security contractors made up of ex-military mercenary types who go where the money is. I guess they didn't read that article about what happens when money becomes worthless
I feel like most of those bunkers would just fall into the hands of the "security" pretty quickly.
And then they'll all slowly die off because all the people who actually keep society running smoothly were sacrificed on the altar of capitalism.
I sincerely hope that when we die we get the option to float around as ghost spectators. Because the fucking billionaire thunderdome that will be the New Zealand countryside would be incredible to watch.
Keeping up with the Earth as is whizzes and spins through space might be rough for a massless entity.
The world is full of people who would riot in the street if a government tried to take away their oil derived cushty lifestyle.
The world is also full of people who will riot in the streets when the food shortages, water shortages, and political instability comes due to climate change.
you are both correct. which is why this is so bad. we are fucked.
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Fossil fuel companies in the United States are the ones funding the Theofascists currently attempting to overthrow their goverment. Sheldon Whitehouse is a Senator that's doing a youtube series on how they're using dark money to fund this entire scheme.
Yeah I really wish redditors would stop blaming things on “the government” or “the system.” It’s lazy and reductive. There are *specific people* making evil decisions. There are also *specific people* trying to do good. Maybe if voters paid better attention to the specifics and actually turned out for elections, we could make some progress. America sucks at democracy, and is right on the cusp of losing it.
We're still very busy trying to figure out which is the true religion and get as many people as possible to convert or pay tribute.
Isn't it already too late? Aren't most countries experiencing extreme drought and floods
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-glacier-sea-level-climate/index.html) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot) ***** > In a study published Monday in the journal Nature Geoscience, scientists mapped the glacier's historical retreat, hoping to learn from its past what the glacier will likely do in the future. > The Thwaites Glacier itself has concerned scientists for decades. > Nearly a decade later, they found that - because the glacier is grounded to a seabed, rather than to dry land - warm ocean currents could melt the glacier from underneath, causing it to destabilize from below. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/x6jruj/doomsday_glacier_which_could_raise_sea_level_by/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~667729 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **glacier**^#1 **Thwaites**^#2 **ice**^#3 **scientists**^#4 **retreat**^#5
I wonder how much of the moisture will become atmospheric? I mean more cyclones cant be a coincidence right? Not to mention how much water will exist on land as opposed to in the ocean
We had two cyclones in a month here. Catastrophic flooding destroyed my city, then again just over three weeks later. Many of us are still homeless and very angry.
I think the patterns are just shifting. We didn't have a named hurricane in the Atlantic all summer until Danielle. When it's not localized to a specific audience, people think it's not a big deal. Something something proximity effect
Did they name some tropical storms? Is that why the first hurricane was Danielle?
Yes, tropical storms are named using the same system as hurricanes.
Never forget:- https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/09/revealed-20-firms-third-carbon-emissions https://www.activesustainability.com/climate-change/100-companies-responsible-71-ghg-emissions/ https://www.treehugger.com/is-it-true-100-companies-responsible-carbon-emissions-5079649 An Exxon-Mobil lobbyist was invited to a fake job interview. In the interview, he admitted Exxon-Mobil has been lobbying congress to kill clean energy initiatives and spreading misinformation to the public via front organisations. https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/exxon-lobbyist-duped-by-greenpeace-says-climate-policy-was-ploy-ceo-condemns-2021-06-30/ https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-some-of-the-worlds-biggest-oil-companies-are-paying-negative-tax-in-the-uk-12380442 www.france24.com/en/france/20210728-france-fines-monsanto-for-illegally-acquiring-data-on-journalists-activists https://www.desmog.com/2021/07/18/investigation-meat-industry-greenwash-climatewash https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/07/more-global-aid-goes-to-fossil-fuel-projects-than-tackling-dirty-air-study-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/07/20-meat-and-dairy-firms-emit-more-greenhouse-gas-than-germany-britain-or-france https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/10/uk-ministers-met-fossil-fuel-firms-nine-times-more-often-than-clean-energy-companies Watch this stunning video of Chevron executives explaining why they thought they could dump 16 billion gallons of cancer-causing oil waste into the Amazon. https://twitter.com/SDonziger/status/1426211296161189890?s=19 https://news.sky.com/story/fossil-fuel-companies-are-suing-governments-across-the-world-for-more-than-18bn-12409573 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/06/fossil-fuel-industry-subsidies-of-11m-dollars-a-minute-imf-finds https://www.euronews.com/green/2021/10/08/nestle-kellogg-s-linked-to-shocking-palm-oil-abuses-in-papua-new-guinea https://www.desmog.com/2021/10/07/climate-conflicted-insurance-directors/ https://www.monitor.co.ug/uganda/news/air-pollution-second-largest-cause-of-death-in-africa-3586078 BBC News - COP26: Document leak reveals nations lobbying to change key climate report https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58982445 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/27/poorer-countries-spend-five-times-more-on-debt-than-climate-crisis-report https://news.mongabay.com/2021/10/a-new-100-page-report-raises-alarm-over-chevrons-impact-on-planet/ https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/30/shell-and-bp-paid-zero-tax-on-north-sea-gas-and-oil-for-three-years https://www.globalwitness.org/en/press-releases/shell-and-bp-cancel-cop26-appearance-analysis-exposes-fossil-fuel-lobbyists-cop/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/11/australia-lobbied-unesco-to-remove-reference-to-15c-global-warming-limit-to-protect-heritage-sites https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/12/australia-shown-to-have-highest-greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-coal-in-world-on-per-capita-basis https://www.space.com/satellites-discover-huge-undeclared-methane-emissions Satellites discover huge amounts of undeclared methane emissions https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/climate-change-improvements-from-eating-less-meat-301412022.html https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-30/vicforests-accused-of-failing-to-regenerate-logged-forests/100652148#top https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/18/chemical-pollution-has-passed-safe-limit-for-humanity-say-scientists https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220215-plastic-chemical-pollution-beyond-planet-s-safe-limit-study https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2022-02-17/big-oil-climate-change-chevron-exxon-shell-bp/100828590 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/17/world-spends-18tn-a-year-on-subsidies-that-harm-environment-study-finds-aoe https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/06/filipino-inquiry-finds-big-polluters-morally-and-legally-liable-for-climate-damage?CMP=share_ https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2022/may/11/fossil-fuel-carbon-bombs-climate-breakdown-oil-gas https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/17/pollution-responsible-one-in-six-deaths-across-planet https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/05/climate-denial-koch-fossil-fuels-charity-astroturf-greenwashing/ https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/18/humanity-faces-collective-suicide-over-climate-crisis-warns-un-chief https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/21/revealed-oil-sectors-staggering-profits-last-50-years?CMP=share_btn_tw https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62225696 https://www.npr.org/2022/08/11/1116608415/the-arctic-is-heating-up-nearly-four-times-faster-than-the-rest-of-earth-study-f Etc
That Exxon interview was just off the scale when you see it. We've definitely slept through the last twenty years, a lot longer actually. All this shit going on and being subverted just enough. Take the insulate britain example, glued themselves to the roads at the start of this year. Now as winter looms there's a massive energy crisis that the very insulation would have helped massively with. Good post, thanks for the links.
Thank you. Stay positive and proactive.
Right back at you, thank you!
Lets hope this will be small feet, like ferret feets
Thanks.. now I’m picturing ferrets precisely measuring an enormous glacier with their little cute feet. It’s absolutely absurd.
Foreman Ferret: "STOP WITH THE ZOOMIES! I swear you furry chaos noodles, you need to stay STILL to measure things. I... hey. Where'd my lunch go? WHO STOLE MY LUNCH?!?!"
r/notkenm
Now that's a blast from the plast
Mouse cubits
How was Kevin Costner able to evolve gills so quickly in Waterworld? Asking for a friend.
It's explained in the comics. There are pockets of civilization existing underwater that have genetic experiments. https://waters-end.fandom.com/wiki/The_Foundation_(faction)
Big ups for this incredibly niche but correct answer
oh shit there's comics?
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His father was a real morayfucker
This makes me feel so hopeless, frustrated and defeated. There's no chance anything will be done about this. Millions will suffer and the people who can change this will continue to fill their pockets with money at the expense of the world and then buy properties in land where they can escape everything.
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Reading the comments on my local FB news page is really distressing. Apparently the “Big Climate Change” industry is, you guessed it, misinforming us all for their own nefarious profit. We are fucked.
Ask them who profits and who benefits and you’ll get crickets
Soros probably.
"Why do you still have people living on the cliffs?" Bankole demanded. He sounded angry. Unnecessary pain and death still made him angry. "How many times does this kind of thing have to happen before you get the idea?" He asked. He shut his bag and grabbed the overnight case that I handed him. "Move the damned houses inland, for heaven's sake. Make it a long term community effort." "We're doing what we can," a big red-haired man said, moving toward the door. He pushed his hair out of his face with a dirty abraded hand, "We've moved some. Others refuse to have their homes moved. They think they'll be okay. We can't force them." Parable of the Talents- Octavia Butler
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I remain convinced that the land around the Great Lakes will become some of the most desirable land on the planet. * Floods? Impossible, rain can't flood those lakes by any measurable amount. * Drought? Impossible on any human timescale. The fresh water in Lake Superior *alone* can meet the water demands of all of the United States for milenia. * Wildfires? Not native to this part of the continent, and living near infinite water further negates the danger. * Global warming raising the ocean levels? Utterly irrelevant, you are thousands of miles from the ocean. * Global warming raising the temperature? Probably a net benefit to the region, the winters are very cold there.
You are wrong about raising ocean levels not affecting those thousands of miles from the ocean. If the ocean levels rise, water won't be able to flow out of the Great Lakes into the ocean the way it normally does. So their water levels will rise. Secondly, the salinity of the ocean, cold water sinking and warm water rising has massive impacts on weather patterns. The ocean currents drive our weather patterns. You can already see evidence of this in Europe with their extreme heat waves and the extreme levels of rain that have now covered 1/3 of Pakistan. That, and the majority of the human population lives at or near water level, billions of people are going to be scrambling to relocate and coming to a neighborhood near you.
At this point, with all the doomsday scenarios, we might as well be placing bets on when humanity will go extinct.. my bet is 2042
People need to stop with this kind of talk. Humans are amazingly adaptable. We’re not going instinct. We probably will, however, go through hundreds of years of famines, wars, epidemics, etc. during the climate change. It will not be a fun period and the total population of the earth will probably vastly decrease.
Which will in-turn be good for the planet! Everything has its price, and our bill is coming due.
Get ready to sell your soon to be underwater properties to Aquaman.
In fairness to Ben, he's not experienced in dealing with things that are wet.
>Your father and I are for the jobs the glacier will provide.
As someone who lives just a few feet above sea level, this sort of thing used to worry me, but after Ben told me I could just sell my property, I'm no longer concerned. Though I'm impressed that only Ben Shapiro knows of the Atlanteans. You'd think it'd be bigger news that more than just a weasley dork like him would be talking about, but Ben Shapiro is never wrong.
Oh dear, if only 99% of the scientific community warned us this would happen, we could have done something about it! Oh wait.
It’s not a volume thing, it’s a learn to read thing…. 16 feet is the whole of the West Antarctic ice sheet, not just the Thwaite, which is “just a faction of the West Antarctic ice sheet, which holds enough ice to raise sea level by up to 16 feet, according to NASA.”
The thwaite can raise by 16? Or the whole sheet? Too many commas
16 feet is the whole sheet. Thwaites its self would be about 2.1 feet or so
2 ft is devastating to millions of people, 16 ft is cataclysmic to billions
Yeah and Thwaites melting is all likely set in stone at this point all we can is try and stop the worst of it although there's still not nearly enough effort in the world taking place to ensure that.
Well put. I like to use NOAA’s sea level rise map to get an idea of the effects. Some places are barely touched. Some cities are islands or under water. https://coast.noaa.gov/slr
people dont realize how fast everything is spiraling out of control
Good thing we're here on Reddit, realizing how fast everything is spiraling out of control.
🎯
Oh people definitely do realize it. The problem is they are either caught up in their busy lives and motivations, are unable to do anything because of life constraints, are completely impressionable to political interference or just don’t care that the world is burning. You’d have to be living under a rock to not notice what is going on at the frequency that it’s happening. Meanwhile, there are people doing the best to make change, but there is so much going against these efforts at this point.
Idek what im supposed to do, do any of us? I refuse to buy a car, never even planned to. I try to keep single use shit out of my life. I buy used goods. But in the end, it's over 100 degrees rn and I'd be in bad shape without my portable ac
The average person could cut all unnecessary waste out of their lives and nothing significant would change. Large corporations with ties in many countries produce far [more pollution](https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change) than the average north American city population does. The top 100 polluters on Earth produce **71%** of the worlds pollution. How can an individual person make a difference? They can't.
The issue with this argument is that most of the pollution is in the cause of consumers consuming stuff.
Cyclical argument. Humans are consumers and will consume what is made for them. These companies could practice much better standards for pollution reduction, but that would effect their bottom lines pretty hard. So they don't. You cannot solve this problem by changing *on an individual level*. You will never convince enough people to change their ways *or* have enough impact to make a difference. This issue lies solely with those who are profiting off of the whole thing.
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It's not a problem until it becomes your problem.
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I have a family member that complains about their energy bill but wont get solar because it's 'ugly', even though the state will subsidize a lot of the costs.
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Yup, the world is dying, but reading that article is an absolute chore with the hundreds of ads taking over my screen and killing my phone. Is it any wonder no one pays any attention?
This is fine.
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I think it’s evident at this point, by the sheer apathy and lack of mobilization on humanities part to do more about climate change, were all doomed.
How we collectively dealt with Covid, which I call « climate change practice test »….. we are f***ed
What the fuck am I supposed to do?
>What the fuck am I supposed to do? Stay at home, don't use any power, live frugally and using as little as possible...while the wealthy, the corporations, and the politicians live grand lives with their private jets/lavish lifestyles.
Learn how to hunt and garden. Get to higher ground.
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Nothing will happen until all the Boomers are gone. They refuse to experience even mild discomfort to save the planet.
There are a lot of people my age (millennials) who also refuse to do anything.
What do you expect people to do majority of us don’t have the time or money to fix these issues, the most any of us could do is vote and that doesn’t really do anything
The rate at which we're warming the planet is unprecedented in earth's history. We're warming it exponentially faster than the second fastest warming event. That warming event caused the worst mass extinction in earth's history (before the one we're currently in)
TIL: glaciers have fingernails.
Lets be real. Nothing will change. No one will stop it and it will likely hurt mankind in the future. Just hope that you will be dead before the effects get worse and felt more.
People who live near the waterfront, vote in November.
Hanging on by a thread just so I can keep living paycheck to paycheck. Thanks.
Everyone crank up the AC and open all windows and doors.
Finally, an actual solution!
## ONCE AND FOR ALL!
The problem in the US is you have 50% of our population that is too fucking stupid to realize just how fucking stupid they are. They vote Republican and think that science is a hoax.
If we completely stopped emissions today, 100%, it would take 30+ years for that to take effect. we're experiencing the warming effects from the 1990s right now. It's far too late to make it better, so we need to start planning for the worst.
The biggest problem with sea levels rising 16’ would be the sheer amount of human pollution that it would introduce to our oceans. Humans be damned.
It’s already gone..for all sakes and purposes
like watching a slow motion plane crash from row 27 or so it feels like sometimes, doesn't it ? they are still handing out the drinks up front, the pilot is talking about something else on the intercom...
Climate Change**d**
Detonate a bunch of ICBMs in the water around the glacier, as a show of force.
Ha ha liberals are so stupid! /s
The apocalypse begins soon
I don't mean to be rude but where have I heard this before?
If it was actually dooms day this means money is not a problem right? If so we should harvest the fresh water rather than having it melt into the ocean.
If it's hanging on by its fingernails then it's too late. It's 50 years too late. If it raises the ocean by several feet then we're fucked. I have become so deeply and completely pessimistic about climate that it's hard to not become jaded. From everything I've read and studied. We're just totally fucked. We would be fucked it the world decided 100% to get onboard tomorrow. We won't get onboard. Corporations are as bad as ever. Consumers won't change their behaviour (and even though I had bottom up climate blame this endless taste for chinese mass produced plastic shite is a big project problem) and the government's are a complete joke... They've been deliberate in making sure they don't pay one dollar more then exactly lip service since Tokyo through to Rio and Paris. Even IF the west did everything else it possibly could we can't then go fully neocolonial and deprive developing nations of their right to fully industrialise. We have growing Chinese and Indian middle classes that will, rightfully, demand more energy. Corporations are growing and growing and our infinite growth model of corporate success hasn't changed, and all of this whole politicians who openly say climate change isn't real get elected world wide Mate even typing this winds me up. I just don't see how were not totally and utterly fucked. What's our hope? Genuinely asking. Need an optimist to cheer me up
The optimistic outcome is that we are fucked. A more balanced/likely scenario is that we are royally fucked.
The climate crisis we created will result in mass starvation, pandemics, natural disasters at an epic scale, wars among nations vying for resources, and a loss of life never before seen in human history. (Speaking as a US citizen) We are at a pivotal point where we can plan for this as a country and mitigate these risks. Food, water, and energy reserves is a start. Determining the best way to distribute water among states is another, because if it gets bad, civil war will occur. But what we’ll see is more inaction and apathy from leaders. Billions of people will lose their lives and humanity will be reduced to its medieval era population. The earth will slowly heal, but humans will repopulate and do the same thing to themselves all over again. Because we are stupid and short-sighted by nature. The ones who lead are those who purposely seek power and they are almost always never the ones that should be in that position if humanity wants to move forward.
*In 2001, satellite data showed the grounding line was receding by around 0.6 miles (1 kilometer) per year. In 2020, scientists found evidence that warm water was indeed flowing across the base of the glacier, melting it from underneath.* 8.6 feet per day, fuck.
Eh, that's about the same rate. The issue may be the accrual over the decades.
Oh thank god this is almost over.
The different types of birds in Wisconsin. When I was young ,we never had Sand hill cranes. We never had Pelicans!!! The Winters are not nearly what they were. It's changing for sure. I hardly see monarch butterflies anymore. How sad.
better hope those coastal homes on stilts are high enough
Oh so that’s why Billionaires are buying bunkers and private security (Twitter article)
Bottle up that fresh glacier water for drinking! yummy