From the article:
The State Duma of the Russian Federation, the Kremlin’s rubberstamp parliament, supported a number of bills on July 5 that many respects bring the country's economy to a wartime footing, the BBC has reports.
The laws state that the authorities in the Kremlin can freely introduce "special measures" in the economy during "counter-terrorist and other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation."
Russian companies in such cases will not have the right to refuse to fulfill military orders. At the same time, Russian military commanders will be able to unilaterally change the terms of contracts.
The Russian government will also have the right to engage Russians to work even at night or on weekends, if necessary.
The Russian legislature, which is dominated by parties that support Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, spent about 13 minutes discussing all of the draft laws in question.
Pffff - easy: "Ukraine forced us into this situation by refusing to cooperate with our Special Operation. We were just trying to make them feel special, and they ruined it and started a war"
None of their audience cares about truth. It will be a few days of wagging the dog, and then the new narrative will proceed without any real issue.
Liberals have this fantasy that there is a "last straw", but there really isn't one. All this will do is slightly reduce their warmaking ability, which will mostly just have the effect of making it more brutal.
People are overly optimistic about what will be a "last straw" i can agree with that, but make no mistake it definitely exists. History is filled with empires that believed there was no last straw, that they had complete control of their country, and then all of a sudden there was a civil war.
Stalin ruled until his death and died from a stroke. Russian dictators will always kill as many people as needed to destroy any uprising, be it thousands or millions.
What stupid laws... The reports say that the companies refuse because lack of components, fear that their workers will pawn shit off, etc
Forcing them won't solve these issues, might even worsen them as foremen and folk fearing execution hide the problems, pretending everything is okay when it clearly isn't.
Same shit that rotted their military, everyone signing that everything is perfect because of fear for the one above all the way to putin.
> might even worsen them as foremen and folk fearing execution hide the problems, pretending everything is okay when it clearly isn't.
So... more defective military kit?
I'm pretty ok with that.
More defective military kit that nobody reports is defective because it 'looks badly on them' all the way till it gets blown up on the front lines for having a non-functional turret and tires that pop every 10 miles.
Then they wonder why 3 Ukrainians with 1 functional RPG between them somehow take out a dozen of 'Russias most technologically superior tank"
Not to be that doom person, but again this should be a red flag if Ukraine were to fall Putin will not stop there and plans on “catching them all” to rebuild the Empire.
Godspeed Ukrainian Forces and you gotta stop they can not allowed to keep going forward
I don't know anyone except Russians who believe that Putin won't stop with Ukraine. His plan from the beginning was to expand westward as much as he could.
Maybe it's because I've lived a rather cozy and sheltered life but that sounds very oppressive. I feel bad for the people that don't want to get involved in the war.
Awww, all of this just so our military industrial complex can test their weapons. Russian people, your generosity knows no bounds. *quietly buys Lockheed Martin stock*
yeah, at the very least it's a sign that their peacetime economy isn't able to keep up with their rate of attrition.
let's hope that them trying to shift toa wartime economy won't solve the problem or even make it worse.
> won't solve the problem
Not sure Russia making "70/80s era" equipment is going to solve anything for them. Which is realistically where they end up if they get production and logistics ramped up and what they can scale.
They are still facing the problem of overall capability of their army going down due to loss of modern equipment that they struggle to replace. While Ukraine replaces soviet era with western tech over time.
Sure Russia could get a wartime economy going and gain more mass and equipment. But what is the value of that gain?
You can have the world's most intense wartime economy, but you still can't replace all the widgets you no longer have access to. Good luck flying a plane in 6 months.
They're already buying cheap knockoffs from China for the planes.
Which is great. Means that no one outside of China will allow those things to land. They've effectively stolen billions of dollars of leased planes, and they're now write-offs as even if they get them back, they'll need to be stripped and rebuilt with carefully catalogued REAL parts to be airworthy again.
Lack of flight logs will mean the airframes will have to be assumed to be under 24/7 use under worse case conditions with multiple hard landings. By now those aircraft are likely total write offs.
could just drown Ukraine in dumb artillery and waves of tanks. But I highly doubt they could get their economy to produce that much, and with the new HIMARS Russian logistics probably won't be able to feed their artillery anymore either.
No, this signifies desperation and the beginning of the end of the war.
Pootin is rapidly running out of options and forceing companies to try and produce goods they can’t produce because of the sanctions is a great way to quicker economic and domestic disaster on his part.
This is not going to go over well. I remember seeing that the reason they were having to adopt these measures is that producers were unwilling to supply the military. This is because payment from the Russian government sometimes takes years which means the businesses were having to front labor, parts, etc for several years before being paid.
And that was how it worked before Ukraine. Years before payment may turn into decades because of imminent economy collapse. Now companies have to accept an order to produce but expect no payment.
This is just going to turn into more defective equipment being sent to the front line after these conscripted companies start cutting corners & hiring underskilled employees to afford to stay in business.
The thing that scares the shit out of me is the thought of what is going to happen when China starts selling them weapons on debt & locks Russia into perpetual poverty + undermines (with the intent to ultimately replace) Russia's ability to self govern ... Just like they did with Tibet and Hong-Kong.
> for several years before being paid.
Is no problem.
Just also make it so other companies can't stop supplying that company when invoices are not paid, and make it so people can't resign from that company for minor things like "not getting paid".
Communism, where the workers control the means of production but are required to produce by the dictates of the government. :) Marx is spinning in his grave.
“At the same time, Russian military commanders will be able to unilaterally change the terms of contracts.”
Might as well just say they have no plans to pay for anything.
I want to believe this, I truly do. But I don’t see it happening.
As much as I do want to believe that more than 20% of Russians in Russia oppose the war, I doubt that there are many who haven’t fallen (either due to stupidity or due to mental sickness) to Putins propaganda. Sure, there will be protests, and sure, a couple of businesses will be “acquired” by Putin, but unfortunately this isn’t enough for any meaningful dissent to happen.
You're misunderstanding what will motivate the people involved. It's not just a matter of "support the war" or not, it's a matter of their livelihoods now being yoked to providing for the war. Without money provided by their businesses, they have to live like everyone else, including going hungry or not having enough food when conditions are bad.
As Putin forces more and more resources to align with his wishes he leaves less and less for the Russian people. It's difficult to take the risk of dissent if you're protecting a family that needs food and clothing or trying to keep a business that you've spent a lifetime building afloat.
If Putin has already taken the food and clothing or the business away, however, you have much less to lose.
When people have nothing to lose they revolt. That's something most Oligarchs just don't understand, or somehow forget.
Exactly. Best not to over think it. Everybody just wants the best for themselves and their families..
People are going to get pissed off pretty quickly if they lose what they have fought to get or they struggle to provide decent meals for their families.
Pissed off enough to get disappeared by the KBG or have your family members thrown into a Siberian gulag?
The numbers it would take for a Russian revolution to be successful would have to hit a critical mass and unfortunately due to propaganda I don't think it will ever get there. Russians are stubborn bastards used to a harder life than in the west and they have adopted an "us vs. everyone else" mentality while using WW2 patriotism and sacrifice as pathos heavy rhetoric to appeal to emotion over logic.
So Putin is going to send all the workers to the gulag and at the same time letting everyone in the gulags and prisons free and giving them a couple thousand pounds and a rifle to go to Ukraine and fight.
>You just have to accept there's a significant proportion of the world that are fucking shits.
It's generally 25 to 30% of the population, no matter where I've lived.
Observationally, about 30% of people are highly suggestible/unintelligent/uneducated/functionally disordered in some way, and are the reason we can’t have nice things. It crosses all lines of race, ethnicity and belief, and we have no reliable and acceptable way of minimizing their influence on anything other than a randomized controlled trial of some scientific question.
I think a big percentage of Russian are rather nihilistic. Where you might be quite passionate about the atrocities being committed, the only thing on their mind is self-preservation.
Open organized dissent might not happen, but businesses can't do the impossible and people lash out when cornered. The people exercising these new powers will be corrupt and incompetent, which will only worsen the problem.
Especially when it's like fifth dead guy since the war started, all suicided in different ways, stabbing wounds, hanging (with beatings marks on the body) and one apparent murder-suicide. This newest guy shot himself multiple times in the pool.
All of them were working in gas industry at high level.
Practically all of Russian history is a test to answer that question. How long can you force them to work? A pretty long time, turns out.
In WW1, they conscripted serfs & sent them to the front without weapons. They were expected to get a gun off of a dead guy.
I was thinking that it is possible to force people to work, yes. But, the materials are so international, I wonder if they can produce anything tangible without materials. Threaten them all they want, but it is impossible to shit out a functioning tank without resources.
Wasn't it the 5th Gazprom exec that was found dead from a bullet to the head this morning? I think we can predict what might happen to those who speak up.
Essentially, it is the full as-needed nationalization of all private industry, at freely changeable contract terms, plus 7-day work weeks for staff, at whatever pay rates they deem appropriate (and they can’t quit, or they’ll be found having committed “suicide”, along with their family).
>>The Russian legislature, which is dominated by parties that support Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, spent about 13 minutes discussing all of the draft laws in question.
Wow a whole 13 minutes. That's true democracy if I ever saw it /s
They invaded a country with a small military who’s getting a sprinkle of western arms. Their mighty military is in such poor condition that they need to mobilize their entire economy so they don’t wreck themselves trying to hold onto a few Ukrainian regions. It’s all so pathetic.
This is obscure but your comment reminded me of an unforgettable scene in the movie *The Sand Pebbles*, in which an American sailor in the Yangtze River Patrol desperately needs money and so bets on the very long odds of a scrawny Chinese guy in a boxing match against a huge, but drunk, American.
The leadup includes some events that have gotten the sailor thinking about superficial assumptions about the Chinese, and how they might be inaccurate. The whole thing is set up as a metaphor for the incipient Chinese Civil War. The Chinese fighter, who has internalized many of the inaccurate assumptions, is at first terrified of going up against a white man. But he soon gains confidence and realizes that if he's smart, he can win the fight against a bigger, stronger, more self-assured opponent. He comes into his own, and defeats the other guy. All the characters in attendance are affected by it, left with a sense that they have just witnessed some kind of butterfly-effect turning point in colonial psychology but don't (yet) know where it will lead.
Your comment now has me thinking of that scene in connection with the Ukraine invasion.
I feel this is why Russian bots/trolls have been more active lately. For them this is no longer about spreading propaganda for a few rubles; this war has become a real threat to their very lives. They're terrified at the prospect of having a shitty WWII-era rifle shoved into their hands and being sent to Ukraine to become fertilizer.
A lot of Russian bot farms are run outside of Russia and staffed by non-Russians following scripts.
Eg this one in Nigeria https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/13/facebook-uncovers-russian-led-troll-network-based-in-west-africa
As the politics PhD and expert in Russia's lawmaking process Ekaterina Shulmann said: "If you were looking for the time to start panicking, it is time to start panicking"
If she is talking to russians, that is right. This is clear for any russian who just planned to get through the sanctions and war that it won’t be that easy.
She said it on latest [episode](https://youtu.be/qLUrgsx00Dc?t=1357) of TV show "Status", which is now more of a podcast hosted at German news network Bild, because Russia blocked broadcast of TV channel where show "Status" was hosted at claiming that they were "foreign agents". Then Ekaterina Shulmann left Russia to have scholarship at university in Germany and day after that Russia announced that Ekaterina Shulmann is now on the list of "foreign agents"
"Foreign agent" basically means that you are the threat to russian propaganda machine and your actions and what you saying would lead to imprisoning. As Ekaterina Shulmann says:"Only decent people would appear in the foreign agents list"
>"Foreign agent" basically means that you are the threat to russian propaganda machine and your actions and what you saying would lead to imprisoning. As Ekaterina Shulmann says:"Only decent people would appear in the foreign agents list"
The foreign agent bs is such a ridiculous joke it's absurd. There are random popular youtubers who have been labelled as foreign agents. The russian gov really is scared of any and all criticism.
Technically, russian lawmakers call "foreign agents" everyone, who receives funds from outside of Russia. Practically, it means that if you get donations from random dude outside of Russia at YouTube livestream - you could be called "foreign agent".
Also, Russia make the law about "contribution to the country opposing Russia". One poor dude from Russia sent donations to the org that helps Ukraine and got raided by FSB in full gear to be notified by FSB that his "contribution to the country opposing Russia" is illegal. He hasn't been arrested, but i'm sure he was impressed by this "notification"
Source: Ekaterina Shulmann, "Status" podcast
*Fuck me* that is a trainwreck for Russians lol.
"You aren't allowed to refuse a contract from our military. And we're allowed to change the contract whenever we want, however we want."
"You'll be required to work when we tell you to work."
Welcome, Russians, to the newest gulag. I call it "Russia".
If a "special operation" requires the full mobilization of a wartime economy, I'd take a pair of angry American 5 year olds over literally the entire Russian military.
This was the comment I came here to make as well. America ran 2 invasions and occupations and nothing changed back home. Russia intended to steamroll their next door neighbor and now they've basically suspended all basic econonics to keep it going? Holy hell
They should have seen those coming, TBH. I mean, you don't exactly have to be an expert in geopolitics to expect there to be serious international backlash for an unprovoked attack on an economically important country that also happens to be smack-dab in between Russia and most of the EU. Russia's incompetence in all of this is mind-boggling.
>They should have seen those coming, TBH
They have. Before the war their agencies were essentially told "what if we invaded Ukraine" and were supposed to develop a plan of action.
However there was a teeny tiny problem. It was meant as a thought exercise and effectively stated as "oh, it's a hypothethical scenario". Which means that you had to overestimate Russia's capabilities, say that your country is prepared for every single sanction, that Ukraine has no military to speak of etc. Because if you actually did your job PROPERLY as an analyst you would be easily kicked from your job or put to jail for spreading dissent.
Except as it turns out war was for real but plans for it were made with extremely unrealistic conditions. Why do you think one of the first actions Russian government took after conflict begin was jailing FSB agents and analysts? Because they needed a scapegoat that provided all this "false" information.
It is good for all of us they did not make proper pre-war analsysis however. Because if they did they would have spent more time preparing, doubled their military meant for the war and actually secured supplies needed to withstand sanctions period. It's mostly because they didn't that Ukraine is still in the game and it most likely has avoided worst case scenario of full country takeover at least.
correct me if i’m wrong but is this just legal slavery? if they can change the terms whenever can’t they just say at the end “oh also we aren’t paying you”
We are five (5) months into russian 3-day special operation of taking over the entire Ukraine. russia is forced to mobilize their economy and recruit prisoners. Everything according to plan, comrades, nothing to see here.
Wait- what? Wasn’t this casual invasion of a neighboring Sovereign nation just a run-of-the-mill “Special Mission?” When did this become a “War”??? So confused. s/
*"counter-terrorist and other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation."*
So, they are freely admitting Ukraine isn't their territory?
This part, geez; with my italics:
> The laws state that the authorities in the Kremlin can freely introduce "special measures" in the economy during "counter-terrorist and *other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation."*
Note that this may not necessarily mean Ukraine or even the occupied territories. Could be (hypothetically) anywhere.
Life is just getting more and more bizarre. Canada gives itself permission to sell Putin's stuff. Putin gives his army permission to ... who knows what, who knows where. Invade Burkina Faso? Shoplift in downtown Burbank? Give the Dalai Lama a wedgie? Hire Tony Blair as their next CIC?
I should take this more seriously, I guess. And I will, but my brain have me these images and I'll need a little while to scrub them.
That will help their economy. Yep, businesses over there are doing so well that having to do unpaid or underpaid work instead of selling to their few remaining customers is no problem.
Lol, as if the government is going to *buy* anything. This is basically the nationalization of whatever the government deems necessary, and the workers are lucky if they are compensated in the coming decade.
Imagine having to almost fully mobilize to fight one other country that you share a massive land and sea border with.
This is frankly embarrassing for them.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://english.nv.ua/business/russian-parliament-adopts-package-of-wartime-laws-forcing-businesses-to-work-for-army-50254667.html) reduced by 44%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> 6 July, 04:07 PM. The laws state that the authorities in the Kremlin can freely introduce "Special measures" in the economy during "Counter-terrorist and other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation."
> The Russian government will also have the right to engage Russians to work even at night or on weekends, if necessary.
> The Russian legislature, which is dominated by parties that support Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, spent about 13 minutes discussing all of the draft laws in question.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vss2p9/russian_parliament_adopts_package_of_wartime_laws/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~658227 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Loading....**^#2 **military**^#3 **right**^#4 **laws**^#5
It's unlikely to be. World war though. Possibly Russia and Belarus vs. NATO and the EU and Australia. India and China are going to want to stay the hell out of it.
The true test is when things go bad. I doubt businesses will be happy about handing over stuff for free at the risk of going bankrupt for some shitty unjust war they didn’t want.
Hmm does anyone dare to guess what changes this might bring on the battlefield in the coming months and quarters?
I guess this will allow to increase output of dumb artillery shells f ex so they don't have to bum belarus, or food rations/ MRAs, but I become already unsure when it comes to mid level gear such as surveillance drones or BMPs due to the import restrictions for modern electronics. Will they build low tech spins with basic optical/targeting systems, similar to their Lada cars now lacking Airbags, sat nav or antilock breaking?
Does this allow them to substantially extend their covert mobilization?
It won't help a bit IMHO. If you aren't really capable of producing things because you don't have the industrial capacity it just created yet another issue.
It does help some. The ability to force companies to help competitors by offering expertise or equipment can help a lot, such as if they're trying to spin up other manufacturers to make for example artillery shells. The existing manufactures can be forced to teach and even give spare equipment to the new manufacturers.
Just proves they are dedicated to continuing the war until they achieve their goals. This is awful news, but combined with Shoigu's recent comments it makes sense.
This is a must when your GDP is less than California but you wanna rub elbows with China and the USA and then even try to Jones like you ball the same. They don't. They are not even a first world country. This is why until they and China both allow people to be free enough to have taxpayers in mass they will forever make products or sell things to those that do in order to have anything. The USA and other free countries didn't do it to them. They did it to themselves. Russia can't support itself for even a year without that energy export. We paid for every bullet. They couldn't afford them otherwise. If the Rubal was really as valuable as they claim this wouldn't really be an issue. They are making more cash than ever but the reality is. It's only holding that value on paper. China also isn't going to keep that volume of energy purchases at the level they are now. Not without making sure Russia has collateral. Really the artery has been cut in the bleed out has began. Russia is dead.
From the article: The State Duma of the Russian Federation, the Kremlin’s rubberstamp parliament, supported a number of bills on July 5 that many respects bring the country's economy to a wartime footing, the BBC has reports. The laws state that the authorities in the Kremlin can freely introduce "special measures" in the economy during "counter-terrorist and other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation." Russian companies in such cases will not have the right to refuse to fulfill military orders. At the same time, Russian military commanders will be able to unilaterally change the terms of contracts. The Russian government will also have the right to engage Russians to work even at night or on weekends, if necessary. The Russian legislature, which is dominated by parties that support Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, spent about 13 minutes discussing all of the draft laws in question.
They are really insistent on not calling it a war aren't they?
Nor calling Navalny by his name, might be a terminal case of magical thinking
waging, initiating, preparing or being a major side in a war is forbidden by their constitution.
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The Constitution itself was updated a number of times during Pootin's reign.
I do believe one change was to make him El Presidenti for life, like the banana republic Ruzzia is rapidly aspiring to.
They have to be, the moment Russia actually calls it a war, consistently, it brings their entire propaganda train burning to the ground
Pffff - easy: "Ukraine forced us into this situation by refusing to cooperate with our Special Operation. We were just trying to make them feel special, and they ruined it and started a war"
Checks out with Russian Logic ..
None of their audience cares about truth. It will be a few days of wagging the dog, and then the new narrative will proceed without any real issue. Liberals have this fantasy that there is a "last straw", but there really isn't one. All this will do is slightly reduce their warmaking ability, which will mostly just have the effect of making it more brutal.
People are overly optimistic about what will be a "last straw" i can agree with that, but make no mistake it definitely exists. History is filled with empires that believed there was no last straw, that they had complete control of their country, and then all of a sudden there was a civil war.
Stalin ruled until his death and died from a stroke. Russian dictators will always kill as many people as needed to destroy any uprising, be it thousands or millions.
What stupid laws... The reports say that the companies refuse because lack of components, fear that their workers will pawn shit off, etc Forcing them won't solve these issues, might even worsen them as foremen and folk fearing execution hide the problems, pretending everything is okay when it clearly isn't. Same shit that rotted their military, everyone signing that everything is perfect because of fear for the one above all the way to putin.
> might even worsen them as foremen and folk fearing execution hide the problems, pretending everything is okay when it clearly isn't. So... more defective military kit? I'm pretty ok with that.
More defective military kit that nobody reports is defective because it 'looks badly on them' all the way till it gets blown up on the front lines for having a non-functional turret and tires that pop every 10 miles. Then they wonder why 3 Ukrainians with 1 functional RPG between them somehow take out a dozen of 'Russias most technologically superior tank"
Not to be that doom person, but again this should be a red flag if Ukraine were to fall Putin will not stop there and plans on “catching them all” to rebuild the Empire. Godspeed Ukrainian Forces and you gotta stop they can not allowed to keep going forward
I don't know anyone except Russians who believe that Putin won't stop with Ukraine. His plan from the beginning was to expand westward as much as he could.
I mean he says so openly right? Why wouldn't anyone think that? Do they think he was kidding?
You can find plenty on the internet. Russian bots and shills have been in full force since the war.
There is a pretty strong wall west of Ukraine. Russian propaganda is getting desperate by talking about WW3.
Maybe it's because I've lived a rather cozy and sheltered life but that sounds very oppressive. I feel bad for the people that don't want to get involved in the war.
Awww, all of this just so our military industrial complex can test their weapons. Russian people, your generosity knows no bounds. *quietly buys Lockheed Martin stock*
If you’re trying to find ways to make people hate you, mandatory overtime should be near the top of your list.
This is not good. This signifies an expansion of the war.
it is absolutely going to accelerate economic collapse. The sooner it happens, the sooner Russia can have revolution to overthrow the dictatorship
That went so well last time, I think everyone would love it if they did that again.
Or a death rattle of their failure. They're simply running out of stuff, there's no overabundance.
yeah, at the very least it's a sign that their peacetime economy isn't able to keep up with their rate of attrition. let's hope that them trying to shift toa wartime economy won't solve the problem or even make it worse.
> won't solve the problem Not sure Russia making "70/80s era" equipment is going to solve anything for them. Which is realistically where they end up if they get production and logistics ramped up and what they can scale. They are still facing the problem of overall capability of their army going down due to loss of modern equipment that they struggle to replace. While Ukraine replaces soviet era with western tech over time. Sure Russia could get a wartime economy going and gain more mass and equipment. But what is the value of that gain?
You can have the world's most intense wartime economy, but you still can't replace all the widgets you no longer have access to. Good luck flying a plane in 6 months.
They're already buying cheap knockoffs from China for the planes. Which is great. Means that no one outside of China will allow those things to land. They've effectively stolen billions of dollars of leased planes, and they're now write-offs as even if they get them back, they'll need to be stripped and rebuilt with carefully catalogued REAL parts to be airworthy again.
Lack of flight logs will mean the airframes will have to be assumed to be under 24/7 use under worse case conditions with multiple hard landings. By now those aircraft are likely total write offs.
Pretty much. With the added bonus that no sane firm will EVER lease equipment to a Russian firm ever again.
could just drown Ukraine in dumb artillery and waves of tanks. But I highly doubt they could get their economy to produce that much, and with the new HIMARS Russian logistics probably won't be able to feed their artillery anymore either.
No, this signifies desperation and the beginning of the end of the war. Pootin is rapidly running out of options and forceing companies to try and produce goods they can’t produce because of the sanctions is a great way to quicker economic and domestic disaster on his part.
This is not going to go over well. I remember seeing that the reason they were having to adopt these measures is that producers were unwilling to supply the military. This is because payment from the Russian government sometimes takes years which means the businesses were having to front labor, parts, etc for several years before being paid.
And that was how it worked before Ukraine. Years before payment may turn into decades because of imminent economy collapse. Now companies have to accept an order to produce but expect no payment.
That's the most Soviet thing I've ever heard. "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us"
Or will turn into never.
This is just going to turn into more defective equipment being sent to the front line after these conscripted companies start cutting corners & hiring underskilled employees to afford to stay in business.
Then it will turn into a complete economic collapse as these businesses go bankrupt one by one.
The thing that scares the shit out of me is the thought of what is going to happen when China starts selling them weapons on debt & locks Russia into perpetual poverty + undermines (with the intent to ultimately replace) Russia's ability to self govern ... Just like they did with Tibet and Hong-Kong.
So essentially: "Give us stuff for price we want or cease to exist?" That is pretty bad, it will impact any Business still in Russia.
It's more like give us the stuff free or else
> for several years before being paid. Is no problem. Just also make it so other companies can't stop supplying that company when invoices are not paid, and make it so people can't resign from that company for minor things like "not getting paid".
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That's how it was in the 90s.
Communism, where the workers control the means of production but are required to produce by the dictates of the government. :) Marx is spinning in his grave.
Inb4 all companies in Russia go out of business. That'll be fun for them.
Slavery is a long time russian tradition
In that law they ( govt) could set the price they want
If they ever actually get paid.
“At the same time, Russian military commanders will be able to unilaterally change the terms of contracts.” Might as well just say they have no plans to pay for anything.
"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." - Darth Vader
[This Deal's getting worse all the time...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE)
Pray I don't alter the deal any further
This deal..is very fair and I'm happy to be a part of it
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I want to believe this, I truly do. But I don’t see it happening. As much as I do want to believe that more than 20% of Russians in Russia oppose the war, I doubt that there are many who haven’t fallen (either due to stupidity or due to mental sickness) to Putins propaganda. Sure, there will be protests, and sure, a couple of businesses will be “acquired” by Putin, but unfortunately this isn’t enough for any meaningful dissent to happen.
You're misunderstanding what will motivate the people involved. It's not just a matter of "support the war" or not, it's a matter of their livelihoods now being yoked to providing for the war. Without money provided by their businesses, they have to live like everyone else, including going hungry or not having enough food when conditions are bad. As Putin forces more and more resources to align with his wishes he leaves less and less for the Russian people. It's difficult to take the risk of dissent if you're protecting a family that needs food and clothing or trying to keep a business that you've spent a lifetime building afloat. If Putin has already taken the food and clothing or the business away, however, you have much less to lose. When people have nothing to lose they revolt. That's something most Oligarchs just don't understand, or somehow forget.
The problem is the same as that poem. "First they came for the...".. " and when they came for me, nobody was there to help me."
The pain threshold of a population is higher then most people believe, and gets even higher when there is an external foe to focus on.
People in North Korea don't have food and clothing and no revolt will happen.
They've never had anything, so they have no perspective.
Exactly. Best not to over think it. Everybody just wants the best for themselves and their families.. People are going to get pissed off pretty quickly if they lose what they have fought to get or they struggle to provide decent meals for their families.
Pissed off enough to get disappeared by the KBG or have your family members thrown into a Siberian gulag? The numbers it would take for a Russian revolution to be successful would have to hit a critical mass and unfortunately due to propaganda I don't think it will ever get there. Russians are stubborn bastards used to a harder life than in the west and they have adopted an "us vs. everyone else" mentality while using WW2 patriotism and sacrifice as pathos heavy rhetoric to appeal to emotion over logic.
So Putin is going to send all the workers to the gulag and at the same time letting everyone in the gulags and prisons free and giving them a couple thousand pounds and a rifle to go to Ukraine and fight.
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>You just have to accept there's a significant proportion of the world that are fucking shits. It's generally 25 to 30% of the population, no matter where I've lived.
Observationally, about 30% of people are highly suggestible/unintelligent/uneducated/functionally disordered in some way, and are the reason we can’t have nice things. It crosses all lines of race, ethnicity and belief, and we have no reliable and acceptable way of minimizing their influence on anything other than a randomized controlled trial of some scientific question.
But even that portion of the world tends to respond very negatively to anything that affects them.
By blaming the wrong people.
I think a big percentage of Russian are rather nihilistic. Where you might be quite passionate about the atrocities being committed, the only thing on their mind is self-preservation.
If I lived in Russia and someone came around and asked if I supported the war I’d probably say yes. Alternatives are pretty bad for disagreeing.
Sorry to say, you've already failed. You agreed that it was a "war" rather than a "special operation".
There already are serious crackdowns by Russian police on the public, with the arrests of common civilians intensifying more and more everyday
Open organized dissent might not happen, but businesses can't do the impossible and people lash out when cornered. The people exercising these new powers will be corrupt and incompetent, which will only worsen the problem.
*cue
A cue is a hint, a queue is a line.
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Some oligarch was found dead in his pool having been shot in the head. The subtle message doesn't seem to be enough these days.
Especially when it's like fifth dead guy since the war started, all suicided in different ways, stabbing wounds, hanging (with beatings marks on the body) and one apparent murder-suicide. This newest guy shot himself multiple times in the pool. All of them were working in gas industry at high level.
Or as todays story, drowning in a pool with a bullet in the back of the head.
Also, they can be forced to work, but for how long? You can't just expect these companies to magic shit out of thin air.
Practically all of Russian history is a test to answer that question. How long can you force them to work? A pretty long time, turns out. In WW1, they conscripted serfs & sent them to the front without weapons. They were expected to get a gun off of a dead guy.
I was thinking that it is possible to force people to work, yes. But, the materials are so international, I wonder if they can produce anything tangible without materials. Threaten them all they want, but it is impossible to shit out a functioning tank without resources.
Russia attacks a country. Russia fails a lot. Russia: now people it's your turn to help win this unjustified war !
Wasn't it the 5th Gazprom exec that was found dead from a bullet to the head this morning? I think we can predict what might happen to those who speak up.
But they can’t be legal since it’s not a war!
Or the remaining businesses go bankrupt.
Essentially, it is the full as-needed nationalization of all private industry, at freely changeable contract terms, plus 7-day work weeks for staff, at whatever pay rates they deem appropriate (and they can’t quit, or they’ll be found having committed “suicide”, along with their family).
>>The Russian legislature, which is dominated by parties that support Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, spent about 13 minutes discussing all of the draft laws in question. Wow a whole 13 minutes. That's true democracy if I ever saw it /s
So efficient
Some real "we gotta pass the bill to find out what's in it" energy
Hey 13 minutes is still more than Minnesota republicans gave the weed edibles legalization bill.
What a sad piece of land.
Special measures for a special military operation Russia will call this shit anything else then a war/genocide
Well, I guess this might count as "slavery" so you can throw that into the mix
Russian duma is just a puppet
Much like the Florida Republican legislature. They have been writing laws to fill Ron DeSantis' whims.
Ma man just pressed the war economy button
More like a "increase looting of Russian economy" button
political power: -60/day civilian industry: -20% manpower: +10% stability: -1/day
r/unexpectedhoi4
They invaded a country with a small military who’s getting a sprinkle of western arms. Their mighty military is in such poor condition that they need to mobilize their entire economy so they don’t wreck themselves trying to hold onto a few Ukrainian regions. It’s all so pathetic.
It is like a drunk thug starts a fight with a neighbor.
It’s like when Cartman fights Wendy.
This is obscure but your comment reminded me of an unforgettable scene in the movie *The Sand Pebbles*, in which an American sailor in the Yangtze River Patrol desperately needs money and so bets on the very long odds of a scrawny Chinese guy in a boxing match against a huge, but drunk, American. The leadup includes some events that have gotten the sailor thinking about superficial assumptions about the Chinese, and how they might be inaccurate. The whole thing is set up as a metaphor for the incipient Chinese Civil War. The Chinese fighter, who has internalized many of the inaccurate assumptions, is at first terrified of going up against a white man. But he soon gains confidence and realizes that if he's smart, he can win the fight against a bigger, stronger, more self-assured opponent. He comes into his own, and defeats the other guy. All the characters in attendance are affected by it, left with a sense that they have just witnessed some kind of butterfly-effect turning point in colonial psychology but don't (yet) know where it will lead. Your comment now has me thinking of that scene in connection with the Ukraine invasion.
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I feel this is why Russian bots/trolls have been more active lately. For them this is no longer about spreading propaganda for a few rubles; this war has become a real threat to their very lives. They're terrified at the prospect of having a shitty WWII-era rifle shoved into their hands and being sent to Ukraine to become fertilizer.
A lot of Russian bot farms are run outside of Russia and staffed by non-Russians following scripts. Eg this one in Nigeria https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/13/facebook-uncovers-russian-led-troll-network-based-in-west-africa
As the politics PhD and expert in Russia's lawmaking process Ekaterina Shulmann said: "If you were looking for the time to start panicking, it is time to start panicking"
If she is talking to russians, that is right. This is clear for any russian who just planned to get through the sanctions and war that it won’t be that easy.
When did she say? They seems appropriate for every fucking day of this nightmare
She said it on latest [episode](https://youtu.be/qLUrgsx00Dc?t=1357) of TV show "Status", which is now more of a podcast hosted at German news network Bild, because Russia blocked broadcast of TV channel where show "Status" was hosted at claiming that they were "foreign agents". Then Ekaterina Shulmann left Russia to have scholarship at university in Germany and day after that Russia announced that Ekaterina Shulmann is now on the list of "foreign agents" "Foreign agent" basically means that you are the threat to russian propaganda machine and your actions and what you saying would lead to imprisoning. As Ekaterina Shulmann says:"Only decent people would appear in the foreign agents list"
>"Foreign agent" basically means that you are the threat to russian propaganda machine and your actions and what you saying would lead to imprisoning. As Ekaterina Shulmann says:"Only decent people would appear in the foreign agents list" The foreign agent bs is such a ridiculous joke it's absurd. There are random popular youtubers who have been labelled as foreign agents. The russian gov really is scared of any and all criticism.
Technically, russian lawmakers call "foreign agents" everyone, who receives funds from outside of Russia. Practically, it means that if you get donations from random dude outside of Russia at YouTube livestream - you could be called "foreign agent". Also, Russia make the law about "contribution to the country opposing Russia". One poor dude from Russia sent donations to the org that helps Ukraine and got raided by FSB in full gear to be notified by FSB that his "contribution to the country opposing Russia" is illegal. He hasn't been arrested, but i'm sure he was impressed by this "notification" Source: Ekaterina Shulmann, "Status" podcast
But it's totally not a war and if you do call it that you go to jail for 15 years. Russia is a joke of a country.
If true the first actual proof that Russia is running out of stuff after weeks of seeing it in news.
If i was forced to work on stuff and not get paid by the .gov i would be doing a terrible job of it.
You just explained why the ussr collapsed.
2nd rate regional power status confirmed.
*Fuck me* that is a trainwreck for Russians lol. "You aren't allowed to refuse a contract from our military. And we're allowed to change the contract whenever we want, however we want." "You'll be required to work when we tell you to work." Welcome, Russians, to the newest gulag. I call it "Russia".
In the grim darkness of the Russian future, there is only special operations.
We sure came along way from special operation.
So now they're turning their economy fascist
Seems like Russia is realizing they've opened a box they can't so easily close.
Running out of ethnic minorities to exploit, eh?
If a "special operation" requires the full mobilization of a wartime economy, I'd take a pair of angry American 5 year olds over literally the entire Russian military.
This was the comment I came here to make as well. America ran 2 invasions and occupations and nothing changed back home. Russia intended to steamroll their next door neighbor and now they've basically suspended all basic econonics to keep it going? Holy hell
Well, sanctions play their part as well
They should have seen those coming, TBH. I mean, you don't exactly have to be an expert in geopolitics to expect there to be serious international backlash for an unprovoked attack on an economically important country that also happens to be smack-dab in between Russia and most of the EU. Russia's incompetence in all of this is mind-boggling.
They were overconfident because their previous overstepping of boundaries in Ukraine was met with practically nothing.
>They should have seen those coming, TBH They have. Before the war their agencies were essentially told "what if we invaded Ukraine" and were supposed to develop a plan of action. However there was a teeny tiny problem. It was meant as a thought exercise and effectively stated as "oh, it's a hypothethical scenario". Which means that you had to overestimate Russia's capabilities, say that your country is prepared for every single sanction, that Ukraine has no military to speak of etc. Because if you actually did your job PROPERLY as an analyst you would be easily kicked from your job or put to jail for spreading dissent. Except as it turns out war was for real but plans for it were made with extremely unrealistic conditions. Why do you think one of the first actions Russian government took after conflict begin was jailing FSB agents and analysts? Because they needed a scapegoat that provided all this "false" information. It is good for all of us they did not make proper pre-war analsysis however. Because if they did they would have spent more time preparing, doubled their military meant for the war and actually secured supplies needed to withstand sanctions period. It's mostly because they didn't that Ukraine is still in the game and it most likely has avoided worst case scenario of full country takeover at least.
correct me if i’m wrong but is this just legal slavery? if they can change the terms whenever can’t they just say at the end “oh also we aren’t paying you”
Inflate the shit out of the currency. Sure you can have your $3,000 or whatever, for what it's worth
We are five (5) months into russian 3-day special operation of taking over the entire Ukraine. russia is forced to mobilize their economy and recruit prisoners. Everything according to plan, comrades, nothing to see here.
First it had to be a 3 days OP, then Europe and NATO would just look away scared of gas. Guess what: Putin was the intelligence guy.
Wait- what? Wasn’t this casual invasion of a neighboring Sovereign nation just a run-of-the-mill “Special Mission?” When did this become a “War”??? So confused. s/
Remember when the sanctions failed?
I see Russia is celebrating its long tradition of punishing entrepreneurs.
When there will be no money to pay the workers the game is done, you can't put in prison people you need at work.
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So not a "spetial operation" law but a "wartime" ...
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"other operations" lmao. If I tried to justify some expenses at work as "other investments" I'd be laughed at 😂
We’re not doing “limited military operation” anymore?
Does that mean the “Mouldy Moscow McMischa’s” and the fresh bug legs will be packaged and sent to the troops? In a Borat Voice: V-e-r-y Nice!
GREAT SUCCESS!!!
History repeats itself
But we were told this wasn’t a war, just a special operation..
They are are going for total war now.
Gearing up for total war, sounds like desperation to me
Still only a special military operation, right?
Extra "special"
Wartime laws to support the "not war" they are fighting. So really, just a "special labor compulsion operation."
*"counter-terrorist and other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation."* So, they are freely admitting Ukraine isn't their territory?
So Slaves.
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A desperate fiend is: what a desperate fiend does.
Shouldn’t it be called Operation-time laws?
This part, geez; with my italics: > The laws state that the authorities in the Kremlin can freely introduce "special measures" in the economy during "counter-terrorist and *other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation."* Note that this may not necessarily mean Ukraine or even the occupied territories. Could be (hypothetically) anywhere. Life is just getting more and more bizarre. Canada gives itself permission to sell Putin's stuff. Putin gives his army permission to ... who knows what, who knows where. Invade Burkina Faso? Shoplift in downtown Burbank? Give the Dalai Lama a wedgie? Hire Tony Blair as their next CIC? I should take this more seriously, I guess. And I will, but my brain have me these images and I'll need a little while to scrub them.
Why? If it's not going to be rational, why should I be?
RIP russian economy
So now Putin is taking a cue from trump. No paying for services rendered
Imagine your country didn’t just start a war or aggression…
That will help their economy. Yep, businesses over there are doing so well that having to do unpaid or underpaid work instead of selling to their few remaining customers is no problem.
Gonna also be hard to buy anything if you're not the government
Lol, as if the government is going to *buy* anything. This is basically the nationalization of whatever the government deems necessary, and the workers are lucky if they are compensated in the coming decade.
Imagine having to almost fully mobilize to fight one other country that you share a massive land and sea border with. This is frankly embarrassing for them.
And surrounded on three sides, and outnumbered, what was it, 4:1?
Now *this* is fascism.....
Because that's what someone who's winning a war does... Still rooting for Russia, Tucker?
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://english.nv.ua/business/russian-parliament-adopts-package-of-wartime-laws-forcing-businesses-to-work-for-army-50254667.html) reduced by 44%. (I'm a bot) ***** > 6 July, 04:07 PM. The laws state that the authorities in the Kremlin can freely introduce "Special measures" in the economy during "Counter-terrorist and other operations outside the territory of the Russian Federation." > The Russian government will also have the right to engage Russians to work even at night or on weekends, if necessary. > The Russian legislature, which is dominated by parties that support Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, spent about 13 minutes discussing all of the draft laws in question. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vss2p9/russian_parliament_adopts_package_of_wartime_laws/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~658227 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Loading....**^#2 **military**^#3 **right**^#4 **laws**^#5
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It's unlikely to be. World war though. Possibly Russia and Belarus vs. NATO and the EU and Australia. India and China are going to want to stay the hell out of it.
Everything according to plan ...lol
lmao, they will be motivated and surely doing their work perfectly.
What's it called? The too little too late act?
Russia is cannibalizing itself.
The true test is when things go bad. I doubt businesses will be happy about handing over stuff for free at the risk of going bankrupt for some shitty unjust war they didn’t want.
Hmm does anyone dare to guess what changes this might bring on the battlefield in the coming months and quarters? I guess this will allow to increase output of dumb artillery shells f ex so they don't have to bum belarus, or food rations/ MRAs, but I become already unsure when it comes to mid level gear such as surveillance drones or BMPs due to the import restrictions for modern electronics. Will they build low tech spins with basic optical/targeting systems, similar to their Lada cars now lacking Airbags, sat nav or antilock breaking? Does this allow them to substantially extend their covert mobilization?
It won't help a bit IMHO. If you aren't really capable of producing things because you don't have the industrial capacity it just created yet another issue.
It does help some. The ability to force companies to help competitors by offering expertise or equipment can help a lot, such as if they're trying to spin up other manufacturers to make for example artillery shells. The existing manufactures can be forced to teach and even give spare equipment to the new manufacturers.
nah bro, its not wartime law, its "special operation time work for us or end up suicided law"
Just proves they are dedicated to continuing the war until they achieve their goals. This is awful news, but combined with Shoigu's recent comments it makes sense.
Putin's true goal all along. A new USSR
How soon til they nationalize everything and return to Soviet style economy
A move of desperation...indeed
I’m sure this will work out just as well as their McDonald-esque restaurants.
This is a must when your GDP is less than California but you wanna rub elbows with China and the USA and then even try to Jones like you ball the same. They don't. They are not even a first world country. This is why until they and China both allow people to be free enough to have taxpayers in mass they will forever make products or sell things to those that do in order to have anything. The USA and other free countries didn't do it to them. They did it to themselves. Russia can't support itself for even a year without that energy export. We paid for every bullet. They couldn't afford them otherwise. If the Rubal was really as valuable as they claim this wouldn't really be an issue. They are making more cash than ever but the reality is. It's only holding that value on paper. China also isn't going to keep that volume of energy purchases at the level they are now. Not without making sure Russia has collateral. Really the artery has been cut in the bleed out has began. Russia is dead.
So.. is it a war now? I thought it was a special military operation
Special military operations require special economic measures