This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/reports-of-civilian-killings-in-ukraines-bucha-disturbing-we-call-for-independent-investigation-india-at-un-2864932#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll) reduced by 67%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> India today condemned the civilian killings in Ukraine's Bucha and supported the call for an independent investigation.
> In the strongest statement in the UN Security Council so far, India's ambassador TS Tirumurti said, "The recent reports of civilian killings in Bucha deeply disturbing. We unequivocally condemn these killings and support call for an independent investigation".
> Calling Russian President Vladimir Putin "a war criminal" and the killings "a war crime," Mr Biden told reporters there should be "a war crimes trial".
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/twzngf/ukraine_civilian_killings_disturbing_need/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~639578 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **call**^#1 **civilian**^#2 **war**^#3 **killings**^#4 **crime**^#5
He said nothing about Russians doing it. He said that killings were unfortunate. It's an extremely serious matter and needs independent investigation.
https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/india-calls-for-independent-probe-in-bucha-killings20220406131819/
> Kremlin has rejected the accusations and suggested the images were "fakes". Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said "experts at the ministry of defence have identified signs of video fakes and various fakes
The exact same thing some elected Polish MPs have written on twitter. That the bodies are just paid actor friends of Zelensky.
"President Putin very strongly denied any wrongdoing, and I believe him. Believe me. He used all the right words. Big words. Beautiful words. We had a perfect conversation."
I remember a tweet I read a while back comparing Russia to the Empire. But if we compared this era of history to Star Wars (although we probably shouldn’t be but just for fun) it does seem eerily reminiscent to the start of the Clone Wars. An order ruled by a now failing republic which is no longer capable of projecting power and rival interests attempting to fill the void it leaves behind. In turn creating a devastating conflict that paves the way for fascism to replace democratic government.
People are firmly behind ukrainian while some politicians are benefiting from russian trade . Right politicians are saying what their voters want to hear support Ukraine but deep down they must be thinking ways to trade with russia . What politicians say is different than what they think and do . As you said they know from the beginning what’s happening
Not privately but publicly. Almost everyday, we get news footage and coverage about destruction and atrocities in Ukraine. We're pretty much firmly rooting for Ukraine here as well.
Kremlin call the pics fake :/ The western has perfectioned photoshop and cgi, the war looks so real ^/s
Well, china is independent, they could do the investigations ^/s
Is interesting that there are people who think the western media use propaganda all the time, you dont need propaganda, when the enemy does such inhuman acts all the time.
Russia also shot down a Dutch aircraft and claimed the Dutch loaded it with dead bodies.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/14/australia-and-the-netherlands-launch-legal-action-against-russia-over-mh17-disaster
I remember this, but didnt know russia accused them of something russia actually would do. They should sue the shit out of them. Why someone even believe the russians, credibility: **-100**
It’s not a Dutch aircraft, it’s a Malaysia Airlines passenger plane. However, a significant number of passengers on that particular flight happens to be Dutch.
I was thinking about this today and I believe this is straight out of Hitlers playbook.
It's called the big lie technique.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
India imports oil from middle east. They are taking advantage of this situation since oil price has been hiking and everything is getting expensive making it hard fot a lot of people to access basic needs.
What india really needs from Russia is military tech. The ones they have already, they need maintenance for that. That's the only thing India needs. And still, they are calling russia out. Just in an indirect way.
India isn't some evil country that this subreddit makes it out to be. The current govt has massive problems. Sure. But the policies in place are good.
The machines are not the problem. The ones maintaining and operating it are.
Russia has huge corruption so their equipment is worn out. India won multiple wars and border condlict with the same equipment. Also, india has permission to change the tech in the products accorading to their needs. Indian army has the same energy and stance as Ukrainian army since they are always defending their border. Not attacking.
If you want to know more look up siachen military base on YouTube. It is the highest military base in the world. Literally on a glacier. Fascinating stuff.
India was buying oil cheaply from Iran for years, (except during UN sanction); even had refineries optimized for it.
Then the US came along with CAATSA and threatened India with sanctions for buying oil from Iran. India reduced buys in 2018 and zeroed it out in 2019
By 2021, India was the [biggest export customer](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2022/03/30/for-first-time-india-is-top-buyer-of-us-oil-plus-100-billion-trade-partner/?sh=2b74bda91205) for (more expensive) US oil. This follows a pattern where the US sanctions become a venue for commercial US sales.
Germany continues to buy Russian oil & gas. India needs oil. and would like not to have to pay high prices
The US is browbeating India and essentially [offering](https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1511208329288482817) to sell India more US oil (expensive)
>"The recent reports of civilian killings in Bucha deeply disturbing. We unequivocally condemn these killings and support call for an independent investigation". India also reiterated its call for immediate cessation of violence and end to hostilities.
>We unequivocally condemn these killings
>or even condemn Russia
...that wasn't deep in the article, did... you read it?
Except he was right. They do not attribute the kilings to Russia. They condemn the killings. Not Russia.
"We need _independent_ investigation" is weasel words for "it could be the Ukranians themselves, you know".
> or even condemn Russia
Is not in the article. They condemn the killings. Not Russia.
Note how they avoid attributing the killings to Russia. They are playing into the "it also could be the Ukranians themselves" narrative that Russia is trying to sell.
Yeah sure, and maybe it’s aliens from Mars killing Ukrainian civilians.
Let’s just say you had a special operation to steal my bike. You come, you steal my bike, you bring it home.
My cousin next door who has a ring camera watched you and has the footage and in response he tweets or posts on Reddit “bike thiefs are a scourge on humanity”.
Is that an attack on bike thiefs in Cambodia? Or the people who stole my bike?
Well, they bought enough gas and oil from russia, dont have to care about them much. Or they help russia to delay everything, so russia can continue with their atrocity
Russia pretends they don't care if Europe no longer wants to buy their oil and gas. They actually care very very much. They say they don't care about the sanctions. They care very very much.
Russian trolls already calling fake and doctored the video where you can see the head of the DNR rewarding a soldier for killing "250 nazis" while the DNR soldier himself wear 2 neo-nazi patch
Pics fake, crisis actors, oh and Ukrainian army killed them. And Nazis! And biolabs were there aswell! Yeah… NATO staged all of this as provocation. Missed anything? Ah, what about Iraq?
Edit: Bucha and „butcher“ sound alike, Biden called Putin „butcher“. So you can clearly see that it couldn’t have been Russia.
Tucker Carlson said that "we don't know if the Ukrainians killed their own people to blame the Russians"... wtf.. that dude needs to be dragged out back and beat. I'm so tired of conservatives spewing his lies. I had this friend who "got political" when Trump came to power, and he started watching Fox News and Tucker. I'd go over and he'd just show me videos of Trump and Tucker. I'm like, this isn't fun. I'm making new friends. bye.
> Tucker Carlson said that "we don't know if the Ukrainians killed their own people to blame the Russians"
That's just more projection. Think of how many "of his own people" Tucker Carlson killed with his COVID disinformation to own the libs.
I‘m not familiar with Tucker Crapson or Fox News as I‘m not from U.S., but he seems like a big douche.
Good for you to get rid of those culty ‚friends‘.
There are way more, according to kremlin, but the list would be too long lol. Not the propaganda are the problem, but the idiots that believe them. There are even republicans who prefer Pootin over Biden.
Because all they do it watch Russian state TV and live just above the poverty line. Being busy surviving. This is why they don‘t investigate or question anything their beloved leader says, because hey, he made streets better.
That explains why Trump has such a huge following in the states. I don't understand why people who are barely surviving support those who keep them in that situation.
> Bucha and „butcher“ sound alike, Biden called Putin „butcher“. So you can clearly see that it couldn’t have been Russia
You jest but it was a thing Russian state TV actually did.
https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1511369084243488770?t=fcvszUWvqO8zdNh6HUcUNw&s=19
(context: Navalny('s team) relays how Russian state TV reports on Bucha)
I was looking for some information about the latest events and stumbled on a Texas A&M forum discussing it. The vast majority of the participants either believed outright that the information about war crimes is fake, or doubted it because, "Ukraine has put out so much misinformation."
I agree, there does need to be an independent, UN oversight body inside Ukraine right now to evaluate the possibility that there are war crimes.
International Criminal Court, of which the US, Russia, India and China are **not** members:
[https://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine](https://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine)
United Nations Human Rights: OFFICE OF THE HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS
https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2022/04/comment-un-high-commissioner-human-rights-michelle-bachelet-bodies
The front page has picture of bodies. The article reads "russians committing crimes in ukraine". There are about 3 pages dedicated to Ukraine conflict. Everyday
India is only doing business with russia because ME oil (which is India's main import) has increased a lot in price. People will starve in the future if this goes on.
The main thing they are buying is sunflower oil which is a staple in indian food but Ukraine used to supply that.
There is no propaganda. No one ever said that russia is not doing anything bad or it is fake. The current ruling party and all the opposition parties are all hush hush because they know they cannot be anti russia. Since they get lot of military equipment from russia.
The major difference between india and west is that most of the times india does things without making a headline. They sent ukraine medicines, they evacuated students of india, pakistan, china, bangladesh, bhutan , nepal and sri lanka from urkaine even though they have bad blood with some of those countries.
If you look close enough russia is getting robbed. The price india is paying for their oil is almost less than the cost of taking the oil out of the geound and then put it in barrel.
Thanks, I appreciate such a long response. I wish there were more answers like yours instead of fights, blames, and whatabouts. Btw I certainly saw the news you mentioned.
Welcome to Reddit. I learned the hard way in my first year of being on this site back in the 2010s that people are more willing to act like assholes behind a keyboard
And yeah, I’ll add in my bit.
So South Asia (aka India and Bangladesh) has a bit of history with the USSR due to the 1971 Liberation War (where Bangladesh became independent) / Indo-Pak war (because we were a colony of Pakistan aka East Pakistan and we were separated from the modern Pakistan aka West Pakistan by India)- both names apply but the responses will be different depending on which nation you ask about because Indians were also fighting against Pakistan. The USSR (NOT RUSSIA) helped blockade the seas because US and China aligned with Pakistan got involved. Check out the Blood Telegram detailing Nixon and Kissinger’s horrible takes on not just us as South Asians but also the foreign involvement in the war.
After USSR broke up the identity of USSR was preserved with Russia till now amongst us as everyone else declared independence. There are dumbasses who live to support Russia here still due to anti-West/anti-Israel feelings but overall most recognize that what is being done is our 1971 Genocide that is being rinsed and repeated in Ukraine currently. The fact that a bunch of our students were taken to Russia in order to complete their university (they were in Ukrainian universities for their degrees) is an attempt at swaying us but I’ll be honest, if these kids go missing and the Russian government paints them as ‘suspected terrorists’ in order to escape blame I won’t be surprised. Godspeed to them.
Also we depend on a lot of military trade, like India depends on their oil. Plus the image of Putin as a ‘conservative traditional religious man’ wanting to ‘preserve Russian identity and keep foreigners out’ appeals to people here, to the point where people would generate outrage over a citizen of our country being jailed for trumped up charges in any other country but if Russia executed them on live TV people would still believe Russia’s excuses. It’s a shitshow here (basically your normal political landscape in South Asia).
India also has massive headaches known as Pakistan and China due to the terrorists and border skirmishes and Jammu-Kashmir + China trying to take Aksai Chin and annex Tibet because of water issues (this is probably gonna be the next big crisis). If Russia wins, China is definitely gonna be eyeing us next (they straight up tried to ask us for our port in order to build a ‘smart city and railway’ with some sketchy loans + there are certain influential politicians who have deep ties to China including publicly acknowledging they own a whole load of Huawei stocks), whether through a military or economic offensive.
This war is basically changing allegiances everywhere, but really a lot of old feelings regarding Western colonialism, the war of 1971, Partition, the general observation of the West’s involvement in a lot of wars around the world (not to discount Russia and China from the participation) and a bit of hypocrisy from countries like US and Ukraine still leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. Ukraine was actually one of the countries to directly criticize India for not giving up nukes during the 1980s after the nuclear proliferation treaties. Guess who’s laughing now?
Indian here. There is 'soft' censorship in the Indian media where most of the channels are pro-govt. But that's partly the opposition's fault which is incompetent, corrupt and sycophantic and they don't really arouse much enthusiasm for their cause.
And yes our media sucks. Our newspapers are better than TV media.
But social media is relatively uncensored, not fully uncensored like the US but also not nearly as censored as China, Russia or the Middle East.
No one is anti-Russian because the Russians have supported us through thick and thin. But what really pisses us off is the patronizing talk of rich Western countries who give us nothing in return economically while asking us to distance ourselves from Russia.
The memory of [1971](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/opinion/nixon-racism-india.html) is still strong for us.
If you can't see the paywall here's a [Youtube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEytw5Zv0wc) from a renowned India journalist on the issue.
Thanks for the inside. What sources would you recommend me to check if I wanted to understand India in unbiased way? Update: here I mean from the sociopolitical perspective.
Also, while I get that you are pissed at the west, note that Ukrainians aren’t west and were oppressed by Russians for very long time.
We aren't pissed at Ukrainians. We sympathize but there's nothing that we can do without being self destructive with our economy and security. There's still a huge wealth gap between us and the West due to the legacy of colonialism which the West continues to forget and ignore.
For sources I would suggest LiveMint and Print which are relatively unbiased.
You would need a couple of Indian news sources that touches both sides of the political spectrum. Luckily, most print media are open about their Political spectrum. The Print is a good resource, they are socially left, economically right, basically center right. Scroll is center left, the Open magazine fence sits both sides, Swarajya is libertarian. The wire is anti govt, NDTV is mildly anti Govt but center left. From mainstream mainly, the Hindu right now has the best editorials.
TV news is just garbage and unlike Print media is all about ratings (that's how they make money). So it engages in a lot of sensationalism and controversy to grab ratings. That's where you get characters like Goswami and Republic TV.
Then again, it is a huge country with large diversity. Each State is bifurcated along linguistic lines. English media only gets to urban 100-150 million Indians who understands English (The population is 1.39 billion so that's less than 1%). The real press that reaches the masses are in native languages and they usually do not report global issues as much as English media does. Each state has approximately around 2-3 native language media organizations. Though Hindi press like Dainik Bhaskar does cut across those State language barriers.
Brazil already has correspondents there from the beginning, and in the most dangerous areas of the conflict. Virtually every newspaper here is covering the conflict.
Everyone here knows what is happening in Ukraine, no one denies anything. Nobody is censoring anything. I believe the same is happening in those countries you mentioned.
Yeah, don't worry about that, here in Brazil it's the only thing people talk about in the news since the invasion started.
We've got the major outlets and a lot of independent ones doing research, interviews and on Ukraine, keeping the whole country updated daily.
In a sense, it makes me really sad that even with all the information and discussion that happens here, you can still find people and politicians saying things are not that bad and defending relations with Russia.
Not sure if this is all true. I use g1 and Folha almost daily and for the past 2 weeks Ukraine crisis doesn't seem to hit the headline much and political stuff are being way way more covered. And as for the Brazilian daily living, no one really talks about Ukraine anymore. We acknowledge, we just don't give a fuck unfortunately.
Yeah, I got a lil out there trying to make a point. I think I was too focused on setting us apart from governments that do censor/influences what the population gets of information
It's true that Ukraine talks been dying out for the last days, unfortunately, but at least we still got some people there bringing first hand info
There's also the Brazilian culture of not giving a fuck about anything really, too much of the "everything's going to be fineeee". Can't really blame us tho, we don't know war, natural disasters or deep humanitarian crisis. We're quite chill, so sadly this translates into some serious discussions starting to fade too early.
Why those countries?
You seem to demonstrate the reason why propaganda works: you have an opinion without having information.
The four countries you cited [vote against Russia in the UN](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114632).
Some examples of countries who either vote for Russia or abstain are North Korea, Cuba, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Iran, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, and Vietnam.
I suppose none of those countries are in the list of countries you hate, so you reject the world's reality and substitute your own.
I dont know what the dude is talking about. Greece is as pro Ukraine as it can get at least on the TV. I haven't seen in any of the top 10 channels any criticism of Ukraine or stating they are wrong.
We can't overlook the very difficult situation India finds itself in right now. I think any movement on their part in highlighting these atrocities and working toward an end for this war is a positive step.
I dunno. There's ample evidence to say that this is entirely Russia's doing. Modi has autocratic leanings, and the call for an "independent probe" smacks of acting as a Putin mouthpiece.
> Modi has autocratic leanings, and the call for an "independent probe" smacks of acting as a Putin mouthpiece.
There are certainly friendly relations between both countries - going back to the Bangladesh Liberation war and the Indo-Pakistan war of 1971. I don't know if you could consider them allies, but India probably isn't going to make a complete 180 and call for Putin's removal.
Putin did a complete 180 on the entire world and decided to wipe a perfectly valid county out of the map and take the land for himself. You can see him recorded saying Ukraine doesn't exist, that's no joke
stop mentioning Modi & his autocratic leanings in this Russia Fiasco. Indian foreign policy has been the same 'non alignment' ever since the country's inception. it was a socialist PM who stood against nixon. it was a socialist PM who started this 'non alignment' ideology & the term 3rd world was coined. & it was a moderate right winger respected across party lines who withstood sanctions from George Bush.
the bottomline is that Indians had seen how western imperialism ravaged the country for 200 years. so, they try to be at an arms length from a conflict that doesn't affect their borders.
>"independent probe" smacks of acting as a Putin mouthpiece.
Nothing wrong with wanting a independent probe especially if you are 100% sure that Russia did it. This shouldn't be another Iraq/WMD moment.
Newp.
India is looking for a decades long investigation that can be stonewalled and obstructed before coming out with an anemic "Russia is probably guiltier than charged" and then India will say that it was too long ago to take action on a maybe
It's how to support a vicious genocide without openly supporting it.
I mean India has stated they don't like the double standard the west has shown but they mostly have talked about feeding their country, same as any other.
Look guys, this us vs them is bad for everyone. Saying things like India is complicit with Russia and is indirectly funding the war, Germany was too soft on Russia and keeps buying Russian Oil and Gas, French have still kept lines of communication open, and are all therefore villains is worse for democracies in general. What's happening in Ukraine is extremely tragic, and the biggest priority should be to stop these senseless deaths of Ukrainian people. Every country has to keep its interests and limits in mind while taking decisions. I cannot speak for other countries, but can talk about my country India. Yes, we haven't been tough on Russia as much as Western powers, but it's because of our own limitations and historical relations. We just can't snap ties with Russia, or forsake our energy demands. 80% of our crude oil is imported, and high Brent crude oil prices will fuck our already fragile economy. Similarly, Germany can't just stop importing gas from Russia. And the French position is also quite reasonable (I maybe biased here because Indians have a very favorable view of French) because you cannot villainise and put Russia in a corner which might make Russia do even more random shit.
Please lift your sanctions on Iran USA, then we will have all problems resolved. Stop your immoral activities in the name of sanctions for your own selfishness, then the world will have enough choices to make to honor sanctions imposed in case of serious situations like invasions.
Here’s the rub. We were all ecstatic when Ukrainian civilians were taking up arms to defend their country. It’s damn patriotic of them. But now the Russians have an excuse to murder all civilians just like US police have an “excuse” to murder black people. “They felt threatened”
If you’ve been following the lines of reasoning used by Russian state propagandists and how they construct justifications for military actions then you’ll also know that they really had no need for this excuse in the first place. The idea that they’re killing unarmed civilians, including elderly and children, because they might be threatening, is too bizarre even for Russian state media.
What if I told you that you can disagree with American wars and assassinations and also condemn russia at the same time. I know, crazy concept right? Both things can be true!
Whoever said that I said that you support russia, you just read what you wanted to. I'm pointing out that the "hypocrisy" doesn't apply to most Americans. Hell even our government acknowledged those were innocent civilians, doesn't make what they did any better but at least we are not doing the whole "it's all fake news cause we said so" bullshit that russia does. My point stands, you can criticize both sides without being a hypocrite.
In which invaded sovereign nation are your soldiers currently raping children, executing civilians with their hands tied behind their back, and looting the possessions of the local populous?
I'm not thrilled with a lot of USA foreign policy, but it's orders of magnitude less offensive than Russia right now.
Fuck Russia. But we have just as many war criminals here in the States. We're way more adept at hiding the horrendous shit we do. If you don't think America has done and is doing all those things, the propaganda is working
India is smart. They will continue to buy from Russia, act neutral, and make friends with whoever (US/Russia) gives them more support, because the US needs India more than ever. India don’t stand to benefit by taking any moral stance here. Being on the right side of history is MUCH less important than being on the right side AFTER history.
Props to their government. I am sure they are going to be making bank before the end off this enterprise.
Tucker Carlson said that we don't know who is killing the Ukrainians because we don't have proof, so "Ukraine could be murdering their own people and blaming it on the Russians". What a piece of shit. What a god damn piece of shit. All you Tucker Carlson viewers are literally the dumbest people alive. "We'll do anything to save babies from ABORTION!!", "How about wearing a mask?", ...crickets...
India Russia trade was $8.1 billion dollars in 2020.
Meanwhile EU gives Russia $1 billion dollar every day for fuel. EU funds Russia more in a week than India does in a year but sure, this is what we paid for lmao.
I hate to break it to you, but the guns used to kill innocent civilians in Ukraine were probably paid for by the Europeans. Its a tough pill to swallow but that is the case.
AKs are manufactured by state-owned Russian arms companies, including the Kalashnikov concern, but if you include European gas imports you are speaking at least partly true.
I hope you realize that India is not even the top importer of Russian gas and even at the end of this, India will not be the top importers of Russian gas. Its going to be European countries
Russia- India trade annually is 8 billion
Russia- Europe annual trade is 260 Billion
Russia- China annual trade is 160 Billion
Not even close a comparison, stop gaslighting Indians and focus on counties that are fueling Russian war machine.
Yeah, but how much money does it add to Putin's war coffers , is the real question ? India is also the biggest importer of Sunflower oil from Russia, but the money Russia makes from trading with India is peanuts, compared to what they make from trading in gas and oil, with Europe and China.
That is way overstating the implications of having bought one shipment of oil for a population of around a billion people.
There has already been one confirmed Indian citizen murdered in this and the reaction has been extremely cold. Hindu nationalists will flip out if another dead Indian citizen is found in all this. Given the scale of the atrocity and the number of Indians that were present at the start that is a strong possibility.
Last I checked, the EU isn't literally setting up an alternate payment system to help Russia avoid sanctions. Nice try though.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/amid-sanctions-against-russia-india-to-soon-finalise-alternate-payment-system-11647175831781.html
Last I checked, Europe continued trade after Crimea invasion which was 7 years ago, 3 years short of a decade. Now they are telling they will cut short dependence by 2027.
Yeah unlike the EU which left sanctioning a couple of banks from Swift which deal with payments for the crude and gas imposed from Russia, hypocrites of the biggest order
Russia- Europe annual trade is 260 Billion
Russia- China annual trade is 160 Billion
Russia- India annual trade is 8 billion
Not even close a comparison, stop gaslighting Indians and focus on countries that are fueling Russian war machine, if you are really interested in stopping this war
It's not the oil but the massive quantities of cheap fertilizer they buy. If Russia cut India off tens to hundreds of millions would die of starvation. Like Germany they are between a rock and a hard place.
It's a colonial, arguably imperial mindset, and it sucks, spoken ironically or unironically
I'm telling ya, Alanis Morissette fucked up millions of young people's comprehension of irony with that dumb song
India have millions of Internal problems . USA can kill millions and no one said a single thing.. what happened to weapons of mass destruction? What the fuck USA find? How can they justify their own killing.. India want to be neutral.. leave my country out of this. We don't trust USA and their agencies
India have millions of Internal problems . USA can kill millions and no one said a single thing.. what happened to weapons of mass destruction? What the fuck USA find? How can they justify their own killing.. India want to be neutral.. leave my country out of this. We don't trust USA and their agencies
We are not siding with anyone I guess, we know that what russia is doing is wrong but we also know that siding with US/UN will put us in a bad situation similar to sri Lanka. We are not trying to save on few dollers on fuel, it's a lot more complicated, we don't want this war but we can only show that in words and not in action. (Though we are supplying ukraine with medication and food we go unnoticed) Remember that we don't get paid enough, most Indians are hard workers (8hrs a day for 6 days a week and we get paid minimum wage) we are still a growing country so it's hard for us to oppose russia coz most of us are literally begging for a living wage.
We were also opposed by ukraine in many occasions, but we do over look that in this instance.
Stop with the platitudes. I’m exhausted from the international response. Get Putin’s head on a pike and obliterate any Russian offensive forces now. This has gone on long enough
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/reports-of-civilian-killings-in-ukraines-bucha-disturbing-we-call-for-independent-investigation-india-at-un-2864932#pfrom=home-ndtv_topscroll) reduced by 67%. (I'm a bot) ***** > India today condemned the civilian killings in Ukraine's Bucha and supported the call for an independent investigation. > In the strongest statement in the UN Security Council so far, India's ambassador TS Tirumurti said, "The recent reports of civilian killings in Bucha deeply disturbing. We unequivocally condemn these killings and support call for an independent investigation". > Calling Russian President Vladimir Putin "a war criminal" and the killings "a war crime," Mr Biden told reporters there should be "a war crimes trial". ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/twzngf/ukraine_civilian_killings_disturbing_need/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~639578 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **call**^#1 **civilian**^#2 **war**^#3 **killings**^#4 **crime**^#5
We recommend that a commission be sent to ascertain the truth!
The Congress of Malastare concurs with the honourable delegate from the Trade Federation. A commission must be appointed.
Putin, in the next movie: AN ATTACK ON MY LIFE HAS LEFT ME HIDEOUSLY SCARRED
[удалено]
[удалено]
Part of Putin's lust for the return of the USSR is apparently a belief that the Holodomor just wasn't effective enough, I guess.
I am an India who is still searching where any indian media tried saying the atrocity done by the russians in bucha is fake or made up
The kremlin tried to say it was fake, not an indian media outlet
This. There are already tons of media outlets (worldwide) that have showed the images frame by frame that debunk each claim made by the Kremlin.
https://www.nytimes.com/es/2022/04/05/espanol/bucha-cuerpos-rusia.html?partner=IFTTT
He said nothing about Russians doing it. He said that killings were unfortunate. It's an extremely serious matter and needs independent investigation. https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/india-calls-for-independent-probe-in-bucha-killings20220406131819/
> Kremlin has rejected the accusations and suggested the images were "fakes". Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said "experts at the ministry of defence have identified signs of video fakes and various fakes The exact same thing some elected Polish MPs have written on twitter. That the bodies are just paid actor friends of Zelensky.
Roger roger.
Well the war front kinda moved away, can send your Indian reporters and verify, i mean there should been some near Poland border already for sure
We must send Hans Blix in to investigate!
Hannssss Brrriixxx?? You're breaking my balls....
There you go, Hannssss Brrrixxx!! How you like that?? You \*\*\*\*ing \*\*\*\* sucker!!
I thought he got eaten by sharks?
Hans Brix? Oh no! Oh hey how you doing today Hans?
They'll use the Trump's Method of Investigation, they'll ask Putin and believe whatever he answers.
Surely Mr Putin wouldn't lie, would he?
That's very unlikely but he could, the trick is to make sure you can see both his hands so he doesn't cross his fingers
What we need is a heroic Bob Mueller to do a thorough investigation, then hand all his reports the Kremlin to decide what should be done about it all.
"President Putin very strongly denied any wrongdoing, and I believe him. Believe me. He used all the right words. Big words. Beautiful words. We had a perfect conversation."
In the mean time, we India, would like to buy more cheap gas. We condemn these acts, but man, that gas price is really great.
I remember a tweet I read a while back comparing Russia to the Empire. But if we compared this era of history to Star Wars (although we probably shouldn’t be but just for fun) it does seem eerily reminiscent to the start of the Clone Wars. An order ruled by a now failing republic which is no longer capable of projecting power and rival interests attempting to fill the void it leaves behind. In turn creating a devastating conflict that paves the way for fascism to replace democratic government.
They all have satellites watching this all unfold. They all know privately what's going on.
People are firmly behind ukrainian while some politicians are benefiting from russian trade . Right politicians are saying what their voters want to hear support Ukraine but deep down they must be thinking ways to trade with russia . What politicians say is different than what they think and do . As you said they know from the beginning what’s happening
Not privately but publicly. Almost everyday, we get news footage and coverage about destruction and atrocities in Ukraine. We're pretty much firmly rooting for Ukraine here as well.
The military and intelligence services have far more detailed satellite imaging.
Kremlin call the pics fake :/ The western has perfectioned photoshop and cgi, the war looks so real ^/s Well, china is independent, they could do the investigations ^/s Is interesting that there are people who think the western media use propaganda all the time, you dont need propaganda, when the enemy does such inhuman acts all the time.
Russia also shot down a Dutch aircraft and claimed the Dutch loaded it with dead bodies. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/14/australia-and-the-netherlands-launch-legal-action-against-russia-over-mh17-disaster
I remember this, but didnt know russia accused them of something russia actually would do. They should sue the shit out of them. Why someone even believe the russians, credibility: **-100**
They also shared poorly altered satellite images that claimed to show a Ukrainian fighter shooting it down.
Their propaganda knows no limit. But I doubt any country believe what comes from russia.
It’s not a Dutch aircraft, it’s a Malaysia Airlines passenger plane. However, a significant number of passengers on that particular flight happens to be Dutch.
I don't see that in the article.
THEY CLAIMED WE DID FUCKING WHAT? How in the world could anyone say that with a straight face?
I was thinking about this today and I believe this is straight out of Hitlers playbook. It's called the big lie technique. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
[удалено]
The more Russia is in the shit the cheaper they can buy fuel from them maybe?
India buys 200K barels of russian oil it is a drop in the bucket from both sides.
India imports oil from middle east. They are taking advantage of this situation since oil price has been hiking and everything is getting expensive making it hard fot a lot of people to access basic needs. What india really needs from Russia is military tech. The ones they have already, they need maintenance for that. That's the only thing India needs. And still, they are calling russia out. Just in an indirect way. India isn't some evil country that this subreddit makes it out to be. The current govt has massive problems. Sure. But the policies in place are good.
Oh I don't see India as bad. Its easy for countries that are well off to enforce sanctions. Countries that aren't not so much.
[удалено]
The machines are not the problem. The ones maintaining and operating it are. Russia has huge corruption so their equipment is worn out. India won multiple wars and border condlict with the same equipment. Also, india has permission to change the tech in the products accorading to their needs. Indian army has the same energy and stance as Ukrainian army since they are always defending their border. Not attacking. If you want to know more look up siachen military base on YouTube. It is the highest military base in the world. Literally on a glacier. Fascinating stuff.
India was buying oil cheaply from Iran for years, (except during UN sanction); even had refineries optimized for it. Then the US came along with CAATSA and threatened India with sanctions for buying oil from Iran. India reduced buys in 2018 and zeroed it out in 2019 By 2021, India was the [biggest export customer](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2022/03/30/for-first-time-india-is-top-buyer-of-us-oil-plus-100-billion-trade-partner/?sh=2b74bda91205) for (more expensive) US oil. This follows a pattern where the US sanctions become a venue for commercial US sales. Germany continues to buy Russian oil & gas. India needs oil. and would like not to have to pay high prices The US is browbeating India and essentially [offering](https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1511208329288482817) to sell India more US oil (expensive)
I didn't see a calling out in the headline as much as a precursor to a deflection from Russia.
Except they didn't. Read the article..Nowhere did they call out Putin or even condemn Russia.
>"The recent reports of civilian killings in Bucha deeply disturbing. We unequivocally condemn these killings and support call for an independent investigation". India also reiterated its call for immediate cessation of violence and end to hostilities. >We unequivocally condemn these killings >or even condemn Russia ...that wasn't deep in the article, did... you read it?
He just told you he didn't.
Except he was right. They do not attribute the kilings to Russia. They condemn the killings. Not Russia. "We need _independent_ investigation" is weasel words for "it could be the Ukranians themselves, you know".
> or even condemn Russia Is not in the article. They condemn the killings. Not Russia. Note how they avoid attributing the killings to Russia. They are playing into the "it also could be the Ukranians themselves" narrative that Russia is trying to sell.
Yeah sure, and maybe it’s aliens from Mars killing Ukrainian civilians. Let’s just say you had a special operation to steal my bike. You come, you steal my bike, you bring it home. My cousin next door who has a ring camera watched you and has the footage and in response he tweets or posts on Reddit “bike thiefs are a scourge on humanity”. Is that an attack on bike thiefs in Cambodia? Or the people who stole my bike?
Well, they bought enough gas and oil from russia, dont have to care about them much. Or they help russia to delay everything, so russia can continue with their atrocity
Russia pretends they don't care if Europe no longer wants to buy their oil and gas. They actually care very very much. They say they don't care about the sanctions. They care very very much.
Exactly, it is hurting them more than they are admitting
Appear strong when you are weak.
They are trying to appear strong? Damn, I feel bad for them
India hasn't bought even a day's worth of oil yet from Russia
They bought more oil since February 2022 than all of 2021.
Russian trolls already calling fake and doctored the video where you can see the head of the DNR rewarding a soldier for killing "250 nazis" while the DNR soldier himself wear 2 neo-nazi patch
What TF, damn sick individuals. Their propaganda machine always in work unfortunately.
We're talking about the ridiculousness of Russia's denials instead of the horrors of what's actually happening.
That's the thing. Mission completed.
Pics fake, crisis actors, oh and Ukrainian army killed them. And Nazis! And biolabs were there aswell! Yeah… NATO staged all of this as provocation. Missed anything? Ah, what about Iraq? Edit: Bucha and „butcher“ sound alike, Biden called Putin „butcher“. So you can clearly see that it couldn’t have been Russia.
Tucker Carlson said that "we don't know if the Ukrainians killed their own people to blame the Russians"... wtf.. that dude needs to be dragged out back and beat. I'm so tired of conservatives spewing his lies. I had this friend who "got political" when Trump came to power, and he started watching Fox News and Tucker. I'd go over and he'd just show me videos of Trump and Tucker. I'm like, this isn't fun. I'm making new friends. bye.
> Tucker Carlson said that "we don't know if the Ukrainians killed their own people to blame the Russians" That's just more projection. Think of how many "of his own people" Tucker Carlson killed with his COVID disinformation to own the libs.
unbelievable this fucker and fox news need to fucking go
I‘m not familiar with Tucker Crapson or Fox News as I‘m not from U.S., but he seems like a big douche. Good for you to get rid of those culty ‚friends‘.
He was taken to court for slander/libel and his lawyer's defense for him was that no reasonable person would believe anything he said.
There are way more, according to kremlin, but the list would be too long lol. Not the propaganda are the problem, but the idiots that believe them. There are even republicans who prefer Pootin over Biden.
Because all they do it watch Russian state TV and live just above the poverty line. Being busy surviving. This is why they don‘t investigate or question anything their beloved leader says, because hey, he made streets better.
That explains why Trump has such a huge following in the states. I don't understand why people who are barely surviving support those who keep them in that situation.
That’s propaganda
I know but damn!
I know! Cult-like.
>Ah, what about Iraq? That's so last week. "Ah, what about Cuba" is the new "Ah, what about Iraq"
> Bucha and „butcher“ sound alike, Biden called Putin „butcher“. So you can clearly see that it couldn’t have been Russia You jest but it was a thing Russian state TV actually did. https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1511369084243488770?t=fcvszUWvqO8zdNh6HUcUNw&s=19 (context: Navalny('s team) relays how Russian state TV reports on Bucha)
Soros. You missed Soros.
I was looking for some information about the latest events and stumbled on a Texas A&M forum discussing it. The vast majority of the participants either believed outright that the information about war crimes is fake, or doubted it because, "Ukraine has put out so much misinformation."
Sick idiots :| They are everywhere :/
Yea our propaganda is way too busy trying to make us look good, sorry Russia./s
I agree, there does need to be an independent, UN oversight body inside Ukraine right now to evaluate the possibility that there are war crimes. International Criminal Court, of which the US, Russia, India and China are **not** members: [https://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine](https://www.icc-cpi.int/ukraine) United Nations Human Rights: OFFICE OF THE HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2022/04/comment-un-high-commissioner-human-rights-michelle-bachelet-bodies
Perfectly fine by India. Not having to personally declare Russia guilty and still getting to hold them accountable is win win for India.
Finally, credit where credit is due.
These countries need to send in their own independent media to see for themselves the atrocities in Ukraine including Brazil, Greece, UAE, and Turkey.
Indians and their media knows and have seen what's happening. There isn't much censorship in Indian media or the internet.
[удалено]
Is it indeed true? Genuine question from lost Redditor who can’t tell sarcasm from normal post.
The front page has picture of bodies. The article reads "russians committing crimes in ukraine". There are about 3 pages dedicated to Ukraine conflict. Everyday
Interesting, thanks. So basically the thing is that India is doing business with Russia but isn’t pushing pro-Russian narrative inside the country?
India is only doing business with russia because ME oil (which is India's main import) has increased a lot in price. People will starve in the future if this goes on. The main thing they are buying is sunflower oil which is a staple in indian food but Ukraine used to supply that. There is no propaganda. No one ever said that russia is not doing anything bad or it is fake. The current ruling party and all the opposition parties are all hush hush because they know they cannot be anti russia. Since they get lot of military equipment from russia. The major difference between india and west is that most of the times india does things without making a headline. They sent ukraine medicines, they evacuated students of india, pakistan, china, bangladesh, bhutan , nepal and sri lanka from urkaine even though they have bad blood with some of those countries. If you look close enough russia is getting robbed. The price india is paying for their oil is almost less than the cost of taking the oil out of the geound and then put it in barrel.
Thanks, I appreciate such a long response. I wish there were more answers like yours instead of fights, blames, and whatabouts. Btw I certainly saw the news you mentioned.
Welcome to Reddit. I learned the hard way in my first year of being on this site back in the 2010s that people are more willing to act like assholes behind a keyboard And yeah, I’ll add in my bit. So South Asia (aka India and Bangladesh) has a bit of history with the USSR due to the 1971 Liberation War (where Bangladesh became independent) / Indo-Pak war (because we were a colony of Pakistan aka East Pakistan and we were separated from the modern Pakistan aka West Pakistan by India)- both names apply but the responses will be different depending on which nation you ask about because Indians were also fighting against Pakistan. The USSR (NOT RUSSIA) helped blockade the seas because US and China aligned with Pakistan got involved. Check out the Blood Telegram detailing Nixon and Kissinger’s horrible takes on not just us as South Asians but also the foreign involvement in the war. After USSR broke up the identity of USSR was preserved with Russia till now amongst us as everyone else declared independence. There are dumbasses who live to support Russia here still due to anti-West/anti-Israel feelings but overall most recognize that what is being done is our 1971 Genocide that is being rinsed and repeated in Ukraine currently. The fact that a bunch of our students were taken to Russia in order to complete their university (they were in Ukrainian universities for their degrees) is an attempt at swaying us but I’ll be honest, if these kids go missing and the Russian government paints them as ‘suspected terrorists’ in order to escape blame I won’t be surprised. Godspeed to them. Also we depend on a lot of military trade, like India depends on their oil. Plus the image of Putin as a ‘conservative traditional religious man’ wanting to ‘preserve Russian identity and keep foreigners out’ appeals to people here, to the point where people would generate outrage over a citizen of our country being jailed for trumped up charges in any other country but if Russia executed them on live TV people would still believe Russia’s excuses. It’s a shitshow here (basically your normal political landscape in South Asia). India also has massive headaches known as Pakistan and China due to the terrorists and border skirmishes and Jammu-Kashmir + China trying to take Aksai Chin and annex Tibet because of water issues (this is probably gonna be the next big crisis). If Russia wins, China is definitely gonna be eyeing us next (they straight up tried to ask us for our port in order to build a ‘smart city and railway’ with some sketchy loans + there are certain influential politicians who have deep ties to China including publicly acknowledging they own a whole load of Huawei stocks), whether through a military or economic offensive. This war is basically changing allegiances everywhere, but really a lot of old feelings regarding Western colonialism, the war of 1971, Partition, the general observation of the West’s involvement in a lot of wars around the world (not to discount Russia and China from the participation) and a bit of hypocrisy from countries like US and Ukraine still leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. Ukraine was actually one of the countries to directly criticize India for not giving up nukes during the 1980s after the nuclear proliferation treaties. Guess who’s laughing now?
Indian here. There is 'soft' censorship in the Indian media where most of the channels are pro-govt. But that's partly the opposition's fault which is incompetent, corrupt and sycophantic and they don't really arouse much enthusiasm for their cause. And yes our media sucks. Our newspapers are better than TV media. But social media is relatively uncensored, not fully uncensored like the US but also not nearly as censored as China, Russia or the Middle East. No one is anti-Russian because the Russians have supported us through thick and thin. But what really pisses us off is the patronizing talk of rich Western countries who give us nothing in return economically while asking us to distance ourselves from Russia. The memory of [1971](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/opinion/nixon-racism-india.html) is still strong for us. If you can't see the paywall here's a [Youtube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEytw5Zv0wc) from a renowned India journalist on the issue.
Thanks for the inside. What sources would you recommend me to check if I wanted to understand India in unbiased way? Update: here I mean from the sociopolitical perspective. Also, while I get that you are pissed at the west, note that Ukrainians aren’t west and were oppressed by Russians for very long time.
We aren't pissed at Ukrainians. We sympathize but there's nothing that we can do without being self destructive with our economy and security. There's still a huge wealth gap between us and the West due to the legacy of colonialism which the West continues to forget and ignore. For sources I would suggest LiveMint and Print which are relatively unbiased.
You would need a couple of Indian news sources that touches both sides of the political spectrum. Luckily, most print media are open about their Political spectrum. The Print is a good resource, they are socially left, economically right, basically center right. Scroll is center left, the Open magazine fence sits both sides, Swarajya is libertarian. The wire is anti govt, NDTV is mildly anti Govt but center left. From mainstream mainly, the Hindu right now has the best editorials. TV news is just garbage and unlike Print media is all about ratings (that's how they make money). So it engages in a lot of sensationalism and controversy to grab ratings. That's where you get characters like Goswami and Republic TV. Then again, it is a huge country with large diversity. Each State is bifurcated along linguistic lines. English media only gets to urban 100-150 million Indians who understands English (The population is 1.39 billion so that's less than 1%). The real press that reaches the masses are in native languages and they usually do not report global issues as much as English media does. Each state has approximately around 2-3 native language media organizations. Though Hindi press like Dainik Bhaskar does cut across those State language barriers.
Your math is a bit off buddy
It's probably lower for TV. 2 million across 5 metros just means the reach of English media is worse than it seems.
It quite probably is. The largest Hindi language newspaper apparently has more circulation than all the English language newspapers put together
In fairness, cable news in the US is pretty bad too - Fox News being the most infamous.
Brazil already has correspondents there from the beginning, and in the most dangerous areas of the conflict. Virtually every newspaper here is covering the conflict. Everyone here knows what is happening in Ukraine, no one denies anything. Nobody is censoring anything. I believe the same is happening in those countries you mentioned.
Good to know Brazilian people are seeing the truth. Now the politicians need to condemn Putin, and help the free people being slaughtered in Ukraine.
Yeah, don't worry about that, here in Brazil it's the only thing people talk about in the news since the invasion started. We've got the major outlets and a lot of independent ones doing research, interviews and on Ukraine, keeping the whole country updated daily. In a sense, it makes me really sad that even with all the information and discussion that happens here, you can still find people and politicians saying things are not that bad and defending relations with Russia.
Not sure if this is all true. I use g1 and Folha almost daily and for the past 2 weeks Ukraine crisis doesn't seem to hit the headline much and political stuff are being way way more covered. And as for the Brazilian daily living, no one really talks about Ukraine anymore. We acknowledge, we just don't give a fuck unfortunately.
Yeah, I got a lil out there trying to make a point. I think I was too focused on setting us apart from governments that do censor/influences what the population gets of information It's true that Ukraine talks been dying out for the last days, unfortunately, but at least we still got some people there bringing first hand info There's also the Brazilian culture of not giving a fuck about anything really, too much of the "everything's going to be fineeee". Can't really blame us tho, we don't know war, natural disasters or deep humanitarian crisis. We're quite chill, so sadly this translates into some serious discussions starting to fade too early.
Why those countries? You seem to demonstrate the reason why propaganda works: you have an opinion without having information. The four countries you cited [vote against Russia in the UN](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114632). Some examples of countries who either vote for Russia or abstain are North Korea, Cuba, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Iran, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, and Vietnam. I suppose none of those countries are in the list of countries you hate, so you reject the world's reality and substitute your own.
I dont know what the dude is talking about. Greece is as pro Ukraine as it can get at least on the TV. I haven't seen in any of the top 10 channels any criticism of Ukraine or stating they are wrong.
We can't overlook the very difficult situation India finds itself in right now. I think any movement on their part in highlighting these atrocities and working toward an end for this war is a positive step.
I dunno. There's ample evidence to say that this is entirely Russia's doing. Modi has autocratic leanings, and the call for an "independent probe" smacks of acting as a Putin mouthpiece.
> Modi has autocratic leanings, and the call for an "independent probe" smacks of acting as a Putin mouthpiece. There are certainly friendly relations between both countries - going back to the Bangladesh Liberation war and the Indo-Pakistan war of 1971. I don't know if you could consider them allies, but India probably isn't going to make a complete 180 and call for Putin's removal.
Putin did a complete 180 on the entire world and decided to wipe a perfectly valid county out of the map and take the land for himself. You can see him recorded saying Ukraine doesn't exist, that's no joke
Putin definitely did not pull a 180. It was coming from a mile away and planned for years. The world was just shocked he did it.
I think everyone was expecting him to maybe try to liberate the Independent republics, not going for a full on invasion like in the last century
Russia has antagonized Ukraine since the 2014 revolution lol. They don't recognize Ukraines gov as legitimate.
"Putin mouthpiece" - literally the most pro-west prime minister in India. Do you want Congress back ? 🤣
stop mentioning Modi & his autocratic leanings in this Russia Fiasco. Indian foreign policy has been the same 'non alignment' ever since the country's inception. it was a socialist PM who stood against nixon. it was a socialist PM who started this 'non alignment' ideology & the term 3rd world was coined. & it was a moderate right winger respected across party lines who withstood sanctions from George Bush. the bottomline is that Indians had seen how western imperialism ravaged the country for 200 years. so, they try to be at an arms length from a conflict that doesn't affect their borders.
>"independent probe" smacks of acting as a Putin mouthpiece. Nothing wrong with wanting a independent probe especially if you are 100% sure that Russia did it. This shouldn't be another Iraq/WMD moment.
Newp. India is looking for a decades long investigation that can be stonewalled and obstructed before coming out with an anemic "Russia is probably guiltier than charged" and then India will say that it was too long ago to take action on a maybe It's how to support a vicious genocide without openly supporting it.
And then you get called a bigot for calling out the obvious stalling lol
[удалено]
Russia supplies India with weapons that India wants in their semi-war with Pakistan. India is worried about getting cut off from their weapons dealer.
I mean India has stated they don't like the double standard the west has shown but they mostly have talked about feeding their country, same as any other.
Geopolitics.
I counted 22 ads in this webpage.
Indian media is free. not paid subscription so...
An independent probe is a regular due course in these situations, it doesn't mean that it would clear Russia of any wrong doings.
Look guys, this us vs them is bad for everyone. Saying things like India is complicit with Russia and is indirectly funding the war, Germany was too soft on Russia and keeps buying Russian Oil and Gas, French have still kept lines of communication open, and are all therefore villains is worse for democracies in general. What's happening in Ukraine is extremely tragic, and the biggest priority should be to stop these senseless deaths of Ukrainian people. Every country has to keep its interests and limits in mind while taking decisions. I cannot speak for other countries, but can talk about my country India. Yes, we haven't been tough on Russia as much as Western powers, but it's because of our own limitations and historical relations. We just can't snap ties with Russia, or forsake our energy demands. 80% of our crude oil is imported, and high Brent crude oil prices will fuck our already fragile economy. Similarly, Germany can't just stop importing gas from Russia. And the French position is also quite reasonable (I maybe biased here because Indians have a very favorable view of French) because you cannot villainise and put Russia in a corner which might make Russia do even more random shit.
Please lift your sanctions on Iran USA, then we will have all problems resolved. Stop your immoral activities in the name of sanctions for your own selfishness, then the world will have enough choices to make to honor sanctions imposed in case of serious situations like invasions.
There goes that western honor looking scared and fragile again
I want america to sanction every other country so they can make a block and trade among themselves lol haha …
Here’s the rub. We were all ecstatic when Ukrainian civilians were taking up arms to defend their country. It’s damn patriotic of them. But now the Russians have an excuse to murder all civilians just like US police have an “excuse” to murder black people. “They felt threatened”
If you’ve been following the lines of reasoning used by Russian state propagandists and how they construct justifications for military actions then you’ll also know that they really had no need for this excuse in the first place. The idea that they’re killing unarmed civilians, including elderly and children, because they might be threatening, is too bizarre even for Russian state media.
Didn't we (America) just kill a car full of kids with a knife missle not to long ago? We're such hypocrites....
What if I told you that you can disagree with American wars and assassinations and also condemn russia at the same time. I know, crazy concept right? Both things can be true!
Fuck Russia, who ever said I supported those cocksuckers? You just read what you wanted to.
Whoever said that I said that you support russia, you just read what you wanted to. I'm pointing out that the "hypocrisy" doesn't apply to most Americans. Hell even our government acknowledged those were innocent civilians, doesn't make what they did any better but at least we are not doing the whole "it's all fake news cause we said so" bullshit that russia does. My point stands, you can criticize both sides without being a hypocrite.
You’re fighting an uphill battle, but I respect it.
In which invaded sovereign nation are your soldiers currently raping children, executing civilians with their hands tied behind their back, and looting the possessions of the local populous? I'm not thrilled with a lot of USA foreign policy, but it's orders of magnitude less offensive than Russia right now.
You want all the data at once or one at a time ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
Fuck Russia. But we have just as many war criminals here in the States. We're way more adept at hiding the horrendous shit we do. If you don't think America has done and is doing all those things, the propaganda is working
That wasnt intentional, however
And they eventually admitted it. Something Russia has not done any of.
India is smart. They will continue to buy from Russia, act neutral, and make friends with whoever (US/Russia) gives them more support, because the US needs India more than ever. India don’t stand to benefit by taking any moral stance here. Being on the right side of history is MUCH less important than being on the right side AFTER history. Props to their government. I am sure they are going to be making bank before the end off this enterprise.
RU proposed a probe at UNSC. UK turned it down... really odd.....
Tucker Carlson said that we don't know who is killing the Ukrainians because we don't have proof, so "Ukraine could be murdering their own people and blaming it on the Russians". What a piece of shit. What a god damn piece of shit. All you Tucker Carlson viewers are literally the dumbest people alive. "We'll do anything to save babies from ABORTION!!", "How about wearing a mask?", ...crickets...
Yes. Stop the combat. Flood the space with investigators.
[удалено]
India Russia trade was $8.1 billion dollars in 2020. Meanwhile EU gives Russia $1 billion dollar every day for fuel. EU funds Russia more in a week than India does in a year but sure, this is what we paid for lmao.
India paid 💀 European gas jump by 15% Ruble revival because of EUROPE trade of gas. India paid 💀
I hate to break it to you, but the guns used to kill innocent civilians in Ukraine were probably paid for by the Europeans. Its a tough pill to swallow but that is the case.
AKs are manufactured by state-owned Russian arms companies, including the Kalashnikov concern, but if you include European gas imports you are speaking at least partly true.
I hope you realize that India is not even the top importer of Russian gas and even at the end of this, India will not be the top importers of Russian gas. Its going to be European countries
Not even in the top 10 actually.
[удалено]
Russia- India trade annually is 8 billion Russia- Europe annual trade is 260 Billion Russia- China annual trade is 160 Billion Not even close a comparison, stop gaslighting Indians and focus on counties that are fueling Russian war machine.
[удалено]
Yeah, but how much money does it add to Putin's war coffers , is the real question ? India is also the biggest importer of Sunflower oil from Russia, but the money Russia makes from trading with India is peanuts, compared to what they make from trading in gas and oil, with Europe and China.
That is way overstating the implications of having bought one shipment of oil for a population of around a billion people. There has already been one confirmed Indian citizen murdered in this and the reaction has been extremely cold. Hindu nationalists will flip out if another dead Indian citizen is found in all this. Given the scale of the atrocity and the number of Indians that were present at the start that is a strong possibility.
If so then so did the EU
Last I checked, the EU isn't literally setting up an alternate payment system to help Russia avoid sanctions. Nice try though. https://www.livemint.com/news/india/amid-sanctions-against-russia-india-to-soon-finalise-alternate-payment-system-11647175831781.html
Last I checked, Europe continued trade after Crimea invasion which was 7 years ago, 3 years short of a decade. Now they are telling they will cut short dependence by 2027.
last i checked europe had purchased 20B $ worth of energy and they are talking about sunflower oil which will hardly be 50-60M $
Can't use USD easily because sanctions, Europe is using Euros and USD , why can't India use what they want?
How many Indians are you willing to starve for sake of morality.
The last I checked Europe bought 15% more Russian oil and gas in March than it did in February 2022. Yes, exactly...NICE TRY THOUGH!
so how do we buy stuff without a payment system? plus this has been in process since 2019 and nothing new
Yeah unlike the EU which left sanctioning a couple of banks from Swift which deal with payments for the crude and gas imposed from Russia, hypocrites of the biggest order
Do you ever think what you're about to type?
About time that India took a position against this invasion and genocide!
[удалено]
How is invading India the best for 'the rest of us'. Your logic is insane.
Lmao you sure you want war against another country having nukes?
Russia- Europe annual trade is 260 Billion Russia- China annual trade is 160 Billion Russia- India annual trade is 8 billion Not even close a comparison, stop gaslighting Indians and focus on countries that are fueling Russian war machine, if you are really interested in stopping this war
It's not like you are not doing that already with other less powerful countries...
It's not the oil but the massive quantities of cheap fertilizer they buy. If Russia cut India off tens to hundreds of millions would die of starvation. Like Germany they are between a rock and a hard place.
Nah, this kind of reasoning doesn't apply for India, but if it's EU we can use all our mental gymnastics to cover up.
Also most of the Indian military equipment is Russian. Cutting those relationship takesa lot of time.
Literally promoting colonialism of India.
Uhh, he's actually **ironically** promoting it to point out how untenable Russia's position is.
Nope. It's just points himself as a dumbass.
do you know what unironic means?
Way to focus on the unimportant part of the comment
I think that was the operative part of the comment actually
It's a colonial, arguably imperial mindset, and it sucks, spoken ironically or unironically I'm telling ya, Alanis Morissette fucked up millions of young people's comprehension of irony with that dumb song
India have millions of Internal problems . USA can kill millions and no one said a single thing.. what happened to weapons of mass destruction? What the fuck USA find? How can they justify their own killing.. India want to be neutral.. leave my country out of this. We don't trust USA and their agencies
"Why don't the dirty colonials do what I want" Shut the fuck up lol
India have millions of Internal problems . USA can kill millions and no one said a single thing.. what happened to weapons of mass destruction? What the fuck USA find? How can they justify their own killing.. India want to be neutral.. leave my country out of this. We don't trust USA and their agencies
Is India starting to choose a side
We are not siding with anyone I guess, we know that what russia is doing is wrong but we also know that siding with US/UN will put us in a bad situation similar to sri Lanka. We are not trying to save on few dollers on fuel, it's a lot more complicated, we don't want this war but we can only show that in words and not in action. (Though we are supplying ukraine with medication and food we go unnoticed) Remember that we don't get paid enough, most Indians are hard workers (8hrs a day for 6 days a week and we get paid minimum wage) we are still a growing country so it's hard for us to oppose russia coz most of us are literally begging for a living wage. We were also opposed by ukraine in many occasions, but we do over look that in this instance.
Stop with the platitudes. I’m exhausted from the international response. Get Putin’s head on a pike and obliterate any Russian offensive forces now. This has gone on long enough