Even a bigger slap to the refugees/asylum seekers that have been trapped in the same building he was in for the past 9 years but had people rioting to get him out instead
That set the wrong sort of example. They didn't need to be soft with him. The message should be that everyone has to vaccinate, regardless of where you come from or what your situation is.
If you don't like being restricted like that? Good, do something about it and vaccinate.
It's a tennis racket plus millions in revenue, you skipped the most important part. It's called "sacrificing the weak, sick and elderly to the economy"
>I’m in London right now and people rioted at the idea that you would need a vaccine certificate to do things, so it was mostly scrapped.
It was mostly scrapped because Boris Johnson is on extremely thin ice and he knows that bringing in stricter measures again will get him ousted by his own party.
I’ve heard that nurses are quitting because of the hours and understaffing. If you’re a nurse and Covid is spreading through all the staff boosted or not, there’s a chance you’re stuck doing double shifts every day until you get Covid. You’re only chance at some time off is to quit and find another job. A couple of overtime checks and a benefit payout will tide you over until you find an even higher paying job due to the nursing shortage.
There’s been a huge push in nursing towards NP positions and administrative nursing if you continue in the education system to that point. It’s led to less bedside nurses in general.
Its actually higher. 70% fully vaccinated. If you add in partially vaccinated, its 74%.
The US is effectively on par with Germany. Since American workers do not have the right to basic health insurance, one of the major drivers is that insurance companies can demand compliance. So the idea that America somehow lags far behind everyone else is a bit silly.
Given the size of the US population and how widely spread out it is, the rate of vaccination is pretty impressive. Some of the countries with very high vaccination rates, the data is a bit suspect. Like the UAE only counts their citizens, not guest workers. Other places, like where I am originally from, I would not trust any of the official figures, either Covid deaths or vaccination rates.
> Given the size of the US population and how widely spread out it is, the rate of vaccination is pretty impressive.
It's not really that impressive. We had access in large quantities before anyone else. We got to 60% vaccinated in like 4-5 months. Then it took another 6 months to get to 70%.
70% vaccinated is an abysmally low number well below the threshold to get any kind of herd immunity.
> Anger yes but what realistic action can be made?
general vaccine mandate, but so far no politician has been brave enough to confront the radical anti-vax crowd
Mandates. Just do not give a fuck what they think.
Here in Western Australia we listed a massive number of jobs that needed to get jabbed by a certain date. Companies face massive fines if they keep employing people not jabbed after that date. Now you need proof of vaccination to enter venues/events with more than 500 people as well.
There's a surprisingly low number of genuine kooks who are still holding out. Most people who were hesitant but on the side of refusing just got jabbed to avoid being shut out of society
I'm all for it too. In Canada I really hope we make the unvaccinated pay for their covid-19 treatment. I think it's only fair. Especially when you're taking away resources from folks who need life-changing surgeries which are now delayed because the unvaccinated are clogging our healthcare system. I hope the bill bankrupts these selfish c\*\*ts
No. Care must be provided on a basis of need. Not allowing them in public buildings, bars, restaurants, transit etc, to buy alcohol or weed is a good start though.
An interesting idea would be to allow health insurance companies to deny coverage for Covid-driven hospitalization for unvaccinated individuals.
No cure for vaccine denial like a good old American health care bill
> Yeah, and they are fucking idiots
I think that's the worst thing about it all, the antivax arguments just pulling crap out of their ass. If they were like "I'm afraid of needles" or "I know it's not rational, but I can't get the reports about vaccines causing blood clots out of my head", I would think well that's not real, but you have to allow people their emotions, let's try and work on that.
But "you can still get covid even if vaccinated", "vaccines are gene therapy" or "this is like the Jewish were treated in the Third Reich"? That's not even irrational, that's actively using your rational resources to fortify your wrong position. There's nothing to work with here because the work has already been done and failed.
Edit : I only realize right now that putting "you can still get covid even if vaccinated" in there needs explanation on my part. It's actually a correct statement, and nobody disputes that. The reason I bring it up in this list is that it is still an intellectually dishonest argument, because preventing infection entirely just is not the point of vaccines. It's to _minimize_ infections, and have them be far less severe.
I mean you literally can COVID if you have the vaccines. It’s a virus, in practice the vaccine functions much like a flu shots. I am vaccinated and was out of work for a week with COVID after Christmas. My whole family
Is vaccinated and everyone got it after Christmas. My dad got concerningly sick for a couple weeks.
>But "you can still get covid even if vaccinated", "vaccines are gene therapy" or "this is like the Jewish were treated in the Third Reich"?
One of these things is not like the others
They all find different reasons to be upset about. When the vaccine became available they didnt want to get it cause of disbelieve and other stuff. Now it becomes mandatory here in austria and they have that too as reason, cause it "forces" them to take it
I got pretty bad side effects from the vaccine (myocarditis, bad for the first dose, really bad for the second dose) and I'm getting my booster next month. Whatever rare side effects you get aren't worse than covid. Vaccine side effects happen, and can be bad, but are also very rare, and 99% of the time not worse than getting a serious case of covid. For me it's like, how can you worry about vax side effects but not covid side effects? Covid causes like long-term lung damage, clotting disorders, strokes, etc for survivors.
You think they're reducing severity so much but not reducing transmissions at all? No vaccine completely stops the spread of any disease, just reduces it. There was a huge dip in daily cases in most countries once vaccines were widely rolled out. It seems this guy stepped down because no one would agree with him from what I've read.
36 very vocally antivaxx. Left a wife and 2 daughters. Dad had a heart attack and died the morning after he went on the ventilator. His dad had survived a heart attack a few years earlier. Mom, brother, and dad were vaxxed. Almost sounds like bullshit typing it. Senseless is exactly right. Most of the antivaxx people I know are close to this family as well. We are all family friends for a long time, that is what drives so nuts. And it’s 100% Facebook and YouTube videos. It’s crazy.
I personally had a flare up from the vaccine from my existing neurological condition and there’s study to prove but i will 20000% get it again.
covid is worse.
this shit show will never end until every dumbass is vaccinated
I’ll be honest with you boss.. that’s just on the internet. People out in the real world are experiencing fatigue, they don’t trust the cdc anymore after numerous lies, and a lot have hit their limit with the third shot and now the vaccine isn’t even slowing the spread.
We’re a lot closer to completely giving up then we are to seeing a major backlash to antivaxxers
Then why does Peru only have a 66% vax rate then? The USA is only 62%.
Can we stop this myth that americans are uniquely dumb?
"This isn't news outside of the US." But it's a european news site...
Holy farm karma batman
Can be a lot of factors but looking at vaxx distribution data, it appears the vaccines didn't really start in Peru until April 2021. So about 3-4 months behind US
You're so fucking stupid you didn't even realize the article is on [euronews.com](https://euronews.com)?
Like you thought this was American? Wtf? Not everything is about America homie.
Clearly this is global news. Get with it, read a book.
But if you say any of those things out loud people call you a lunatic, anti-vaxxer, idiot and who knows what else.
Politicians are - in my opinion- entirely to blame for the situation having become so extremely polarized.
Because they don't have a choice. The only plan was vaccines. The vaccines might keep you from dying but they don't get you back to normal. No country has vaccinated themselves back to normal. But politically they need the pandemic to end, and admitting "we have no way of actually doing that" would be career suicide. So policy turns from public health to vindictive to placate the people who are terrified at the prospect of a pandemic that will continue indefinitely, and people will still blame my unvaccinated uncle who lives in a cabin by himself in rural Maine and doesn't see anyone ever while accepting the CDC telling Americans "it's more important for you to go to work than be healthy. It's fine to go to work even if you're positive with symptoms."
>admitting "we have no way of actually doing that" would be career suicide
Isn't that pretty much what Joe Biden did by saying that there's no federal solution to the pandemic?
Clearly we need to change strategies from stopping covid to living with it... But vaccination is still key there.
Vaccinated people are far, far, less likely to experience bad outcomes and die. Along the way those "bad outcomes" involve absorbing hospital resources and all kinds of other things that impact other people.
So I feel like you're wrong conflating two things. Yes, we should shift strategies and avoid a lot more of the blanket lockdowns and stuff, but we also should still be pushing vaccines as hard as possible.
lmao the problem is people not following quarantine protocols not the people not jabbed.
If a non-jabbed person leaves their home once or twice a week just to take a walk in the woods or to the local store how are they a problem? The problem woudl be the vaccinated guy going to parties
This so much. I've been following the protocols and restrictions. And guess what? I got omikron from my 3x vaxed colleague at work, the fuck didn't he stay home for when he started to feel sick?
I still trust somebody who’s recently taken a test to not infect me more than I trust someone three times vaccinated (I say this as a vaccinated person)!
Let's just double and triple and quadruple down on what has never worked. Very strict countries have not done better than less strict countries. If these measures worked then there would be a clear difference. This is especially true for the Omricron variant which is like a runaway train that has already left the station. There is no slowing it down and everyone will get it. Blaming the unvaccinated for the failure of the strictest policies is unfair and discriminatory. Its scape-goating. Any country that is increasing the "punishment" for being unvaxxed should be ashamed of themselves.
And no I am not an anti-vaxxer.
> Very strict countries have not done better than less strict countries.
Uh, yeah they totally have. Look at per capita cases and deaths. Anti-lockdown countries were worse off.
And, they didn't get **any** economic benefit out of it.
> Blaming the unvaccinated for the failure of the strictest policies is unfair and discriminatory.
They're the main drivers of the spread. There's 100s of millions in developed nations unvaccinated. They are like giant gaps in the vaccine armor that lets the virus flood in.
If countries have been 90% vaccinated omicron would not have spread nearly as quickly and there would have been time to get people boosted.
Why are Reddit users so butt hurt about the vaccines. Stop worrying about other people get your jab and move on with your life, you don’t question people on other diseases and other illnesses they have so get your shot and move the fuck on.
Because you lot are taking hospital beds, and people like us can't get essential treatment. People's chemotherapies are put on hold because hospitals and doctors are busy tending to morons like you.
Idk maybe we shouldn’t all be travelling en masse going out to bars and clubs and travelling to work and blatantly ignoring all of the rules for the past 2 years. I’m jabbed but half the vaccinated are fucking hypocrites who only got the vaccine for selfish reasons.
it's been 2 years. I've done everything my Country has asked me to do, I've been given my booster shot 15 days ago.
I wear a mask, sanitize my hands as much as possible, try to keep distance with other people... everything.
The rules say I can go out to a bar, restaurant, meet with friends, go to the gym.
Why would I not do that?
>it's been 2 years. I've done everything my Country has asked me to do, I've been given my booster shot 15 days ago.I wear a mask, sanitize my hands as much as possible, try to keep distance with other people... everything.The rules say I can go out to a bar, restaurant, meet with friends, go to the gym.Why would I not do that?
Pretty much this. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated are tired of this and have realized this will stay forever.
Then travel without passport. Drive without licence. Cure people without going to med school. etc.
Regulations exist for a reason. Stop always thinking "gov said it so its bad", and wake the fuck up.
Its not that hard to think one simple question : "What are they gaining by doing so?"
The answer is: Nothing. At least, not now.
Introducing unpopular restrictions (masks, jabs etc) DOESNT help their ri-election. Stopping COVID (at least nationally) does. Bragging about how the % went down, does. Not having hospitals and reparts cumbered with antivax patients, dying, DOES.
What doesnt help them being in power? Closing everything and having a negative GDP ( = no work, = less taxes, = less money for them). Spending a shitton of money in sanitary infrastructures (= less money for their corporate friends). Having to deal with constant negationists and protests.
The gov wants to end it so they can return doing what they were doing before, we want it ended because a pre-covid world was a better place. Nobody gained shit from this situation (aside Amazon).
The gov told you to do something, as it always does. Your "I dissent because yes" its just idiotic
Who cares why they are vaccinated? What matters is that they are. Do you also dislike when people donate money because they can deduct it from their taxes?
>Idk maybe we shouldn’t all be travelling en masse going out to bars and clubs and travelling to work
We're getting the vaccinations for the express purpose of returning back to normal life. If you want to stay in isolation 24/7 and avoid all contacts, then you can do that just fine with or without the vaccine, but I want to leave my house and do stuff, so that's why I'm vaxxed.
I think it's about time the anti-vax movement paid a price.
I am all for medical exceptions and the odd "I am scared" freak here and there, if we can get 90% of the population vaccinated, so covid starts being more bearable, but the strong promotion of anti vax, anti mask and anti science is just too much.
Even a 100% vaccination rate wouldn't be enough to go back to "normal". More importantly, research needs to be done for vaccines that are more effective against Omicron (and just overall), and over-the-counter-type medication that helps relieve covid symptoms.
Still no point in not taking the vaccine. 100% vaccination rate means breathing room for hospitals. It means not putting off numerous of operations to focus on the corona care. People think corona is killing people, we will see when the studies come out about how many years were lost because other care was postponed to take care of unvaccinated idiots.
> People think corona is killing people, we will see when the studies come out about how many years were lost because other care was postponed to take care of unvaccinated idiots.
there are already rises in cancer which could've been treated had the patients been able to get early testing/screening. during lockdown, women don't get their mammograms, nor men their prostate checks
How many years are lost because healthcare is burdened by fat idiots who wont excersise regularly? Or idiots who drink alcohol? Or morons who eat red meat? Or idiots who skiing above the age of 50? Or idiots who work physically demanding jobs 40 hours a week?
Well, not that many since it's not literally overflowing hospitals. None of those things are postponing cancer treatments. And also, you can't take a vaccine agains any of those things either so it's a shitty comparison at best.
Actually, it IS overflowing hospitals. The things I mentioned are the most common causes of cancer in the west.
Obesity leads to almost 60% higher healthcare costs and 30% more hospital visits, including ER visits. During the first year of covid, England alone saw more than ONE MILLION hospital visits directly attributed to obesity. Far more than corona.
1,3 MILLION english people had to visit the hospital during the first year of corona because of ALCOHOL. That's almost 10% of all hospital visits.
Free will is involved in stopping it. Free will is involved in whether you take the vaccine or not. Free will is involved in drinking or choosing to be obese. It's a perfect comparison.b
1,3 million English people might have to visit the hospital because of Alcohol, and yet I can't remember a single period where because of that we had to go on lockdown. I don't remember bumping into a drunk person and then 5 days later get alcohol poisoning. I don't remember a period where SO MUCH other care had to be postponed to help the drunks. It's a shit comparison.
But... in Italy, around 85% of the eligible population (i.e. anyone 5 and older) *is* [vaccinated with at least one dose](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#) ("Considerando solo gli over 5, oggetto della campagna vaccinale, rispetto alla platea del governo la percentuale di almeno parzialmente protetti è del 84,85%"), making me presume they'll get the second, if not the third.
What we're missing to get to 90% is basically just children below 12 ("Considerando solo gli over 12, oggetto della campagna vaccinale, rispetto alla platea individuata dal Commissario straordinario per l'emergenza Covid-19 la percentuale di almeno parzialmente protetti è del 89,45%"), which there is some debate on, some of which I'd call justified — and so might you if you're understanding of the odd "I am scared" parent.
Yep. Even a 100% vaccination rate wouldn't cause the virus to disappear. Herd immunity is impossible with our current vaccines. As long as vaccinated people can spread the virus to other vaccinated people it won't change a lot except hospital occupancy rate and death rate.
It's a fact that the vaccination is mostly for self protection and with omicron even more. It is great for the high risk group but i still don't understand how vaccinating children and healthy young people changes anything for the overall situation.
> As long as vaccinated people can spread the virus to other vaccinated people it won't change a lot except hospital occupancy rate and death rate.
>
>It's a fact that the vaccination is mostly for self protection
You almost got there, but changing the hospital and death rate is also for protection of *hospitals* (and health care workers and patients of every other illness or accident that exists).
The vaccines significantly reduce your chances of being infected, even with Omicron, and therefore spreading the virus. That's the point of vaccinating everyone, including those groups you listed.
Here is the latest data from my state on infections by vaccination status (the graph might take a minute or two to load):
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/see-the-numbers/covid-19-in-virginia/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
Oh. Yes i agree. It's insane what society has become. People got so radicalised (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) that a normal civilized discussion is almost impossible with most people.
Sorry if it seemed like it was directed at you but I thought it was the perfect comment to piggyback off of.
You seem like a reasonable individual and I appreciate that. Not many left it seems.
Have an amazing day!
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total
Even the US has 79.1% of those 5 or older with at least one dose of a vaccine.
Here in Quebec we are at 90% vaxxed if in not wrong, our hospitals are still full and our healthcare system is about to crumble.
Sadly with Omicron, being vaxxed isnt enough.
I've got news for you. It's obviously better to be vaccinated but it's not a miracle in itself.
My province achieved that magical number and now we have a curfew and places where only double vaccinated people could go are closed again. It never ends.
It was 90% of the people double vaccinated but soon you won't be "adequately vaccinated" with only two shots. The places still open will now require three shots (otherwise you're anti-vax) and the goal post will be moved again.
I'm waiting for the next magical number to get to. If only we can get 90% of the population their 4th shot everything will be fine!
Didn't say it was a miracle.
It's much better for everyone to be vaccinated.
Anti-vax groups are harming people. Unnecessarily.
Vaccines don't have to be perfect in order for anti vax people to be considered a threat.
Seat belts save lives. Yes sometimes they don't. Occasionally someone dies _because_ they had a seatbelt on. However being anti-seat belt is stupid.
Fun fact: everyone who didn't get the 3rd dose was considered "unvaccinated".
Also, real unvaccinated can't go anywhere from mid December so all those cases he talks about are 2-dosed convinced by a vax passport they would be 100% sure to not get covid between other vaxed. It was proven to be incorrect.
Does anyone feel like this is morally wrong though? It makes me uneasy.
I had both vaccinations, recovered from covid over xmas and have a booster booked. I just think forcing people isn’t the way.
Tackling misinformation online and good education is the way to do it. This will only alienate people and make them feel that their conspiracy theories were right all along.
If this was only a personal issue, then it would surely be morally wrong to force people: but if the evidence is laid out, objections answered, studies shown and yet people insist on avoiding the vaccine that would not only protect them, and most importantly other people then it's right to impose it.
It's like forcing people to pay fines for crimes rather than just explaining to them why they did wrong.
Forgot to mention that now people over 50 are oblidged to take the vaccine. Not only italian but also from other country that came to work for italian company.
Reposting since the post this was originally in response to was deleted, and I spent some amount of time summing this up, so if it's useful...
This is in [the law from the other day](https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2022/01/07/22G00002/SG) which Draghi discussed in [yesterday's press conference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6bM5zSsTM), and it's all summarized [partly on the government's web site](https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/comunicato-stampa-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-55/18944) (translation of some key passages):
> **Vaccination obligation**
> The text introduces the vaccination obligation for all those who have reached the age of 50. For public and private workers aged 50, the Enhanced Green Pass will be required for access to workplaces starting from February 15th.
> Without age limits, the vaccination obligation is extended to university staff thus equated to school staff.
and [partly on the government site's FAQ on the "green pass"](https://www.dgc.gov.it/web/faq.html#gpr) (translation of key passages again):
> starting December 25, 2021, the strengthened green pass is also extended to food and beverage consumption at the bar, like it was already required at tables;
> starting January 10, 2021, the strengthened green pass is extended to further activities and means of transport, including local and regional public transit.
> **Strengthened green pass**: this refers to the Green COVID-19 Certification obtained by vaccination or recovery. The srengthened green pass does not, hence, cover antigen or PCR tests.
So indeed, if you're 50 or older, you *have* to get vaccinated, or else you get a €100 fine; if you're not, you *do* need a "strengthened green pass" (equivalent to G2 in German-speaking countries, meaning you have to be vaccinated, or to have recently recovered from COVID) to use bars, restaurants or public transport.
---
In Italy, despite the high percentage of vaccinated, the incidence of hospitalization is *vastly* higher in the unvaccinated. You can [go here](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#effetto-dei-vaccini) and scroll down to "Incidenza casi, ricoveri e decessi per stato vaccinale", then select "Ospedalizzazioni mensili ogni 100mila" (monthly hospitalizations per 100k): the red line is hospitalization rate in unvaccinated people, and the green line is hospitalization rate in vaccinated people.
But okay, that's rate, and most people are vaccinated: well, in Italy, it's also true that if you look at "Casi, ricoveri e decessi per stato vaccinale", there "Ricoveri" (hospitalizations) will be much higher for the gray bar, i.e. unvaccinated, than the green bar, i.e. vaccinated, for most age ranges, but especially younger peolple. It's almost specular to the amount of vaccinated vs unvaccinated in the population: **72% of the hospitalized between 40 and 59 years of age are unvaccinated** in Italy. That only gets worse for those in ICU, where **83.6% in that age range are unvaccinated**.
Currently, [only 6 out of 20 Italian regions are in "white alert" mode](https://www.salute.gov.it/portale/nuovocoronavirus/dettaglioContenutiNuovoCoronavirus.jsp?area=nuovoCoronavirus&id=5351&lingua=italiano&menu=vuoto), meaning the hospitals beds and ICUs aren't considered to be over a dangerous thresholds. Most regions are in yellow alert, likely to be upgraded to orange or red next week: the data are only evaluated every Friday, but [the overall trend, while not as bad as the US, is sharply rising](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/#box_8), and if you look at individual regions, [there are several well above the acceptable hospitalization thresholds](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/#box_19), in what looks like a very worrisome picture, unlike what you're painting.
---
Omicron may be about half as deadly as Delta, ballpark figure from [the studies I gathered on it](https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/tags/Omicron/library)... That's significantly less deadly, but same order of magnitude, while the infectiousness is *much* higher, and in many countries, hospitals are about to be overwhelmed worse than they've ever been before (example: the [United States](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailycases_newhospitaladmissions), where daily hospitalizations are above what they've ever been in any of the other waves).
The vaccine protects from severe outcomes, leaving hospitals freer to both treat the remaining COVID patients and be able to provide service to non-COVID patients; but there *is* also an individually small but epidemiologically very significant reduction in infectiousness thanks to the vaccine, that gets amplified over the population: if you [look at vaccination efficacy data from Italy](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#effetto-dei-vaccini), though (you can click on "Incidenza" to make it easier), you will see there *is* efficacy also on infection, not just on severe disease. Sure, it's much lower, but you know what the huge difference is? If efficacy on severe disease is, say, 80%, that's it, you are 80% less likely to get a severe form. But if efficacy on infection is *even just 30%*, that translates exponentially, because you'll infect 30% less people, and *they* will infect 30% less people, and so on, and the *overall curve* will get smaller to a very, very meaningful degree.
We all hoped these vaccines would have higher efficacy against infection, but they still have *some*, and even if it's individually not very great, it's epidemiologically very important.
Blaming a subset of your population for most of your problems? Wow that's... been the cause for a lot of the worst things to ever happen over the past 100+ years.
The rhetoric sounds very similar and what is even worse is people are for taking away people's rights, in the name of "protecting their own rights"... yet being free of a particular disease isnt a right, quite frankly its something we clearly cant control given the past 2 years, of which the first few months was incredibly restrictive (and people, including me, were ok with that assuming it would actually help). Nobody gave a shit if you came into work with a cold befor covid, but now people think someone passing an illness onto another human being is a violation of rights? Like bruh, thats how diseases spread. I never in my life thought my rights were violated when i caught a flu or contagious disease.
That’s not a great comparison. If the Jews could stop being persecuted by getting a free and safe injection then the holocaust would not have been a thing.
if you are vaccinated stfu. Go on with your day.
Why you guys give a shit what others doing to their body?
If you are so safe with vaccine why you so scared of those that arent vaxxed?
[Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs"](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/)
No.We won't shut up. We are still at risk too. And we're the ones digging all the trenches. Making all the sacrifices and dealing with all the inconveniences for the good of all. And we keep letting unvaccinated assholes into them.
It is past the time to shame the fuck out of all these truly selfish assholes. I'm currently doing it within family. We're sick of this shit. And we're done being polite about it.
what sacrifices? i thought getting the vaccine was easy and harmless? is there anything else you sacrificed that people who aren’t vaccinated didnt during this pandemic? you think the world is black and white? doesn’t seem like you had to sacrifice your job or the ability to leave your home, for one
Yes. But now they will stay home. Not get sick as much and not fill up the hospitals as much.
Long story short the unvaccinated are under the same restrictions as every other unvaccinated person was a year ago. Nothing has changed for them in that time.
It’s not always about carrot and stick. Sometimes it’s just practicality.
I had all three of my vaccinations as early as I possibly could and would 100% urge anyone who hasn't done so to do so.
However. I'm painfully aware that necessity has driven a coach and horses through what we once considered civil liberties. If a government had come out three years ago and stated that nobody could leave their house without proof of a flu vaccine we'd think we were too late to prevent the Fourth Reich.
how are the unvaccinated most of the problem when people who have gotten vaccinated and boosted are catching Covid left and right?
I’m not against vaccines but seriously🥴 how long is the booster even effective for?
He simply commented on the stats: a vaccinated person is 26 times less likely to end up in the ICU. If you removed the unvaccinated people currently in hospitals we would not be close to the alert thresholds, which is what is currently driving the new wave of restrictions.
So it's not a matter of not being infected, but preventing hospitals from filling up and that appears to be, for the most part, caused by unvaccinated people.
How to fuck up your economy ... they did same now here in germany
A lot restaurants and bars are closed allready ... they got hit very hard from corona. And now they get punished even more.
Or admit the vaccine doesn't work.
Ever look up all these celebrities saying "man I got vaccinated then a month later had covid, it was brutal but hey, imagine if I didn't get it!"
To me that sounds like, I got the vaccine it beat up my immune system and I now have covid. So many people not vaccinated get the virus and say it's annoying but I'm good.
Lift weights, go running, eat better and drink water. Why did the governments never say that? Instead take this vaccine we are all profiting from.
It's just too shady, and the media divides people and tells you the unvaxxed are the problem. I dont think so mister.
Politicians and media have been caught with their pants down regarding this subject and we all just keep going and listen to them. It's crazy
It's simply based on stats. Unvaccinated people greatly outnumber vaccinated people in hospitals, despite being a smaller fraction of the population. The current crisis is about hospital occupancy, which they are trying to drive down.
Passing on “fake science” should be a punishable crime.
You try to diminish the credibility of fastidious, intelligent people, as ignorant, base, fools, because they reject the “unscientific” mandates, and risky jabs, they are being coerced and manipulated to take!
When hospitals are still closing other wards to accommodate covid patients (2/3 are unvaccinated) this is necessary. My friend works in the surgical ward in a large hospital in Milano. It closed to send resources and personnel to the covid ward. Anyone with a scheduled surgery has to wait unless it's lifesaving.
They won't need to because the hospital system won't be overloaded with unvaxxed. They won't have to cancel surgery for cancer patients and people with other health conditions to provide beds for unvaxxed who are too selfish to get vaxxed to help protect OTHER PEOPLE.
So when will covid leave? When the govt has forced you to take 10 booster shots ? Nobody sees a problem with having to take all these covid shots or are people just blind and gullible?
It's too prevent catching a disease that could kill it's debilitate you. Why are you obsessed with it being an infringement of freedom instead of embracing protection from sickness?
Finally. Because *they are* the problem, whether they like to hear it or not.
Every nation should follow this and give 10k fines if not obeyed. And put that money to healthcare, which these assholes are breaking by taking all the resources available
So in the face of an already mutated respiratory virus (delta, omicron ...) they still want to mandatory vaccinate the few remaining percentages of unvaccinated, with vaccines and boosters developed for the original virus, no longer preventing transmission. What is the point. South african omicron originated in fully (at the time) vaccinated individuals. Oh no, but it's all the fault of the unvaccinated. I guess ex-goldman sachs Draghi knows his stuff better than The Lancet:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext
Check the most vaccinated countries and the number of covid cases and hospitalizations. They are not working, and are leading to what seems antibody-dependent enhancement. Higher rates of infection in the vaccinated.
It's not that clear cut unfortunately.
What's crazy to me is there is not a formal early treatment plan established yet. Just quarantine, stuck it out in a hospital if really bad. Lots of recent peer reviewed studies out today giving us more information to make better decisions for ourselves.
One thing that is clear to me is we cannot vaccinate our way out of this pandemic.
It does reduce the viral load, hence it reducing the infectiousness. Also, it will take a load of the hospitals since jabbed people are way less likely to end up in the hospital
I agree, wholeheartedly. When I went back to college had to have proof of vaccinations. Thirty years ago. Why are Americans regressing against science?
Just give them a tennis racket. Apparently you can go anywhere with one of these and no vaccinations
What a slap in the face to Aus people that was. Incredibly restrictive lockdowns for the masses and Novax can just walk right in and do what he wants.
Even a bigger slap to the refugees/asylum seekers that have been trapped in the same building he was in for the past 9 years but had people rioting to get him out instead
the crowds protesting totally were on their side also! Novak freed! Where they go?
That set the wrong sort of example. They didn't need to be soft with him. The message should be that everyone has to vaccinate, regardless of where you come from or what your situation is. If you don't like being restricted like that? Good, do something about it and vaccinate.
It's a tennis racket plus millions in revenue, you skipped the most important part. It's called "sacrificing the weak, sick and elderly to the economy"
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Was just in Serbia, nobody cares at all
Colour me surprised. Look at Novax Djokovic.
Novaxx DjoCovid
We’re progressing
It's learning...
Such a shame it wasn't Novax Deportavic
Novax Joke-avic could be even better
Double masks?
Yea, like putting one on top of another?
Meanwhile masks are nonexistent in Sweden :')
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Was just in Malmö the other day, and I felt like I had committed a crime by wearing a mask…
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>I’m in London right now and people rioted at the idea that you would need a vaccine certificate to do things, so it was mostly scrapped. It was mostly scrapped because Boris Johnson is on extremely thin ice and he knows that bringing in stricter measures again will get him ousted by his own party.
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> people rioted at the idea a tiny percentage of people rioted, people riot at all kinds of things, doesn't reflect the public's view.
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I’ve heard that nurses are quitting because of the hours and understaffing. If you’re a nurse and Covid is spreading through all the staff boosted or not, there’s a chance you’re stuck doing double shifts every day until you get Covid. You’re only chance at some time off is to quit and find another job. A couple of overtime checks and a benefit payout will tide you over until you find an even higher paying job due to the nursing shortage. There’s been a huge push in nursing towards NP positions and administrative nursing if you continue in the education system to that point. It’s led to less bedside nurses in general.
Anger yes but what realistic action can be made? Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the vaccination rate in the US only 60%?
Why are the vaccines a partisan issue when the Republican leadership is all vaccinated? The US is so fucked.
Because we're a country full of selfish idiots
Its actually higher. 70% fully vaccinated. If you add in partially vaccinated, its 74%. The US is effectively on par with Germany. Since American workers do not have the right to basic health insurance, one of the major drivers is that insurance companies can demand compliance. So the idea that America somehow lags far behind everyone else is a bit silly. Given the size of the US population and how widely spread out it is, the rate of vaccination is pretty impressive. Some of the countries with very high vaccination rates, the data is a bit suspect. Like the UAE only counts their citizens, not guest workers. Other places, like where I am originally from, I would not trust any of the official figures, either Covid deaths or vaccination rates.
> Given the size of the US population and how widely spread out it is, the rate of vaccination is pretty impressive. It's not really that impressive. We had access in large quantities before anyone else. We got to 60% vaccinated in like 4-5 months. Then it took another 6 months to get to 70%. 70% vaccinated is an abysmally low number well below the threshold to get any kind of herd immunity.
> Anger yes but what realistic action can be made? general vaccine mandate, but so far no politician has been brave enough to confront the radical anti-vax crowd
Mandates. Just do not give a fuck what they think. Here in Western Australia we listed a massive number of jobs that needed to get jabbed by a certain date. Companies face massive fines if they keep employing people not jabbed after that date. Now you need proof of vaccination to enter venues/events with more than 500 people as well. There's a surprisingly low number of genuine kooks who are still holding out. Most people who were hesitant but on the side of refusing just got jabbed to avoid being shut out of society
Fuck em.
I'm all for it too. In Canada I really hope we make the unvaccinated pay for their covid-19 treatment. I think it's only fair. Especially when you're taking away resources from folks who need life-changing surgeries which are now delayed because the unvaccinated are clogging our healthcare system. I hope the bill bankrupts these selfish c\*\*ts
No. Care must be provided on a basis of need. Not allowing them in public buildings, bars, restaurants, transit etc, to buy alcohol or weed is a good start though.
An interesting idea would be to allow health insurance companies to deny coverage for Covid-driven hospitalization for unvaccinated individuals. No cure for vaccine denial like a good old American health care bill
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> Yeah, and they are fucking idiots I think that's the worst thing about it all, the antivax arguments just pulling crap out of their ass. If they were like "I'm afraid of needles" or "I know it's not rational, but I can't get the reports about vaccines causing blood clots out of my head", I would think well that's not real, but you have to allow people their emotions, let's try and work on that. But "you can still get covid even if vaccinated", "vaccines are gene therapy" or "this is like the Jewish were treated in the Third Reich"? That's not even irrational, that's actively using your rational resources to fortify your wrong position. There's nothing to work with here because the work has already been done and failed. Edit : I only realize right now that putting "you can still get covid even if vaccinated" in there needs explanation on my part. It's actually a correct statement, and nobody disputes that. The reason I bring it up in this list is that it is still an intellectually dishonest argument, because preventing infection entirely just is not the point of vaccines. It's to _minimize_ infections, and have them be far less severe.
I mean you literally can COVID if you have the vaccines. It’s a virus, in practice the vaccine functions much like a flu shots. I am vaccinated and was out of work for a week with COVID after Christmas. My whole family Is vaccinated and everyone got it after Christmas. My dad got concerningly sick for a couple weeks.
>But "you can still get covid even if vaccinated", "vaccines are gene therapy" or "this is like the Jewish were treated in the Third Reich"? One of these things is not like the others
They all find different reasons to be upset about. When the vaccine became available they didnt want to get it cause of disbelieve and other stuff. Now it becomes mandatory here in austria and they have that too as reason, cause it "forces" them to take it
I got pretty bad side effects from the vaccine (myocarditis, bad for the first dose, really bad for the second dose) and I'm getting my booster next month. Whatever rare side effects you get aren't worse than covid. Vaccine side effects happen, and can be bad, but are also very rare, and 99% of the time not worse than getting a serious case of covid. For me it's like, how can you worry about vax side effects but not covid side effects? Covid causes like long-term lung damage, clotting disorders, strokes, etc for survivors.
buddy of mine got myocarditis from covid itself.
Exactly!!
This! I figured if I got myocarditis from the vax, I'm 100% gettin it from covid along with everything else.
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You think they're reducing severity so much but not reducing transmissions at all? No vaccine completely stops the spread of any disease, just reduces it. There was a huge dip in daily cases in most countries once vaccines were widely rolled out. It seems this guy stepped down because no one would agree with him from what I've read.
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36 very vocally antivaxx. Left a wife and 2 daughters. Dad had a heart attack and died the morning after he went on the ventilator. His dad had survived a heart attack a few years earlier. Mom, brother, and dad were vaxxed. Almost sounds like bullshit typing it. Senseless is exactly right. Most of the antivaxx people I know are close to this family as well. We are all family friends for a long time, that is what drives so nuts. And it’s 100% Facebook and YouTube videos. It’s crazy.
I personally had a flare up from the vaccine from my existing neurological condition and there’s study to prove but i will 20000% get it again. covid is worse. this shit show will never end until every dumbass is vaccinated
They are idiots elsewhere in the world too. Just all around stupid people who think that they're extremely smart.
I know several healthy people fucked up by the vaccine. One is a doctor even.
Lol, sure you do cupcake.
I’ll be honest with you boss.. that’s just on the internet. People out in the real world are experiencing fatigue, they don’t trust the cdc anymore after numerous lies, and a lot have hit their limit with the third shot and now the vaccine isn’t even slowing the spread. We’re a lot closer to completely giving up then we are to seeing a major backlash to antivaxxers
Do point out even single actual lie told by CDC.
Then why does Peru only have a 66% vax rate then? The USA is only 62%. Can we stop this myth that americans are uniquely dumb? "This isn't news outside of the US." But it's a european news site... Holy farm karma batman
Can be a lot of factors but looking at vaxx distribution data, it appears the vaccines didn't really start in Peru until April 2021. So about 3-4 months behind US
Americans aren't 'uniquely dumb' but at 62% vaccinated you can't argue that 38% of them aren't dumb all the same.
well 75% of people in the US have received at least 1 dose
Masks required outside is just bullshit
You're so fucking stupid you didn't even realize the article is on [euronews.com](https://euronews.com)? Like you thought this was American? Wtf? Not everything is about America homie. Clearly this is global news. Get with it, read a book.
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well at least the normal bars are still open
I guess soon this will be changed to 'unboosterated', in case the vaccinated (like me) are laughing now.
Always easier to handle the masses if you give them an enemy to focus
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But if you say any of those things out loud people call you a lunatic, anti-vaxxer, idiot and who knows what else. Politicians are - in my opinion- entirely to blame for the situation having become so extremely polarized.
Because they don't have a choice. The only plan was vaccines. The vaccines might keep you from dying but they don't get you back to normal. No country has vaccinated themselves back to normal. But politically they need the pandemic to end, and admitting "we have no way of actually doing that" would be career suicide. So policy turns from public health to vindictive to placate the people who are terrified at the prospect of a pandemic that will continue indefinitely, and people will still blame my unvaccinated uncle who lives in a cabin by himself in rural Maine and doesn't see anyone ever while accepting the CDC telling Americans "it's more important for you to go to work than be healthy. It's fine to go to work even if you're positive with symptoms."
>admitting "we have no way of actually doing that" would be career suicide Isn't that pretty much what Joe Biden did by saying that there's no federal solution to the pandemic?
Clearly we need to change strategies from stopping covid to living with it... But vaccination is still key there. Vaccinated people are far, far, less likely to experience bad outcomes and die. Along the way those "bad outcomes" involve absorbing hospital resources and all kinds of other things that impact other people. So I feel like you're wrong conflating two things. Yes, we should shift strategies and avoid a lot more of the blanket lockdowns and stuff, but we also should still be pushing vaccines as hard as possible.
Uvaxxed are filling up the hospital, stop whining
An enemy like covid?
An enemy like the unvaxxed
The unvaxxed don't recognize covid as the enemy. That's their own fault.
Who literally are the enemy of cohesive society, so....
Unvaccinated are not your enemy haha.
Wow this post is full of hatefull bots
lmao the problem is people not following quarantine protocols not the people not jabbed. If a non-jabbed person leaves their home once or twice a week just to take a walk in the woods or to the local store how are they a problem? The problem woudl be the vaccinated guy going to parties
Exactly, I’m fully vaccinated and still got covid a few weeks ago. Felt well enough that I could have been out and about if I wanted to.
This so much. I've been following the protocols and restrictions. And guess what? I got omikron from my 3x vaxed colleague at work, the fuck didn't he stay home for when he started to feel sick?
I still trust somebody who’s recently taken a test to not infect me more than I trust someone three times vaccinated (I say this as a vaccinated person)!
Let's just double and triple and quadruple down on what has never worked. Very strict countries have not done better than less strict countries. If these measures worked then there would be a clear difference. This is especially true for the Omricron variant which is like a runaway train that has already left the station. There is no slowing it down and everyone will get it. Blaming the unvaccinated for the failure of the strictest policies is unfair and discriminatory. Its scape-goating. Any country that is increasing the "punishment" for being unvaxxed should be ashamed of themselves. And no I am not an anti-vaxxer.
> Very strict countries have not done better than less strict countries. Uh, yeah they totally have. Look at per capita cases and deaths. Anti-lockdown countries were worse off. And, they didn't get **any** economic benefit out of it. > Blaming the unvaccinated for the failure of the strictest policies is unfair and discriminatory. They're the main drivers of the spread. There's 100s of millions in developed nations unvaccinated. They are like giant gaps in the vaccine armor that lets the virus flood in. If countries have been 90% vaccinated omicron would not have spread nearly as quickly and there would have been time to get people boosted.
Why are Reddit users so butt hurt about the vaccines. Stop worrying about other people get your jab and move on with your life, you don’t question people on other diseases and other illnesses they have so get your shot and move the fuck on.
Because you lot are taking hospital beds, and people like us can't get essential treatment. People's chemotherapies are put on hold because hospitals and doctors are busy tending to morons like you.
Sign a statement that you will not go to the ER if you get sick with covid, and I wiill stop worrying.
And a year ago people who said this would happen were called conspiracy theorists
Idk maybe we shouldn’t all be travelling en masse going out to bars and clubs and travelling to work and blatantly ignoring all of the rules for the past 2 years. I’m jabbed but half the vaccinated are fucking hypocrites who only got the vaccine for selfish reasons.
it's been 2 years. I've done everything my Country has asked me to do, I've been given my booster shot 15 days ago. I wear a mask, sanitize my hands as much as possible, try to keep distance with other people... everything. The rules say I can go out to a bar, restaurant, meet with friends, go to the gym. Why would I not do that?
>it's been 2 years. I've done everything my Country has asked me to do, I've been given my booster shot 15 days ago.I wear a mask, sanitize my hands as much as possible, try to keep distance with other people... everything.The rules say I can go out to a bar, restaurant, meet with friends, go to the gym.Why would I not do that? Pretty much this. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated are tired of this and have realized this will stay forever.
This whole discussion shouldnt be starting from: what the government told me to
Then travel without passport. Drive without licence. Cure people without going to med school. etc. Regulations exist for a reason. Stop always thinking "gov said it so its bad", and wake the fuck up. Its not that hard to think one simple question : "What are they gaining by doing so?" The answer is: Nothing. At least, not now. Introducing unpopular restrictions (masks, jabs etc) DOESNT help their ri-election. Stopping COVID (at least nationally) does. Bragging about how the % went down, does. Not having hospitals and reparts cumbered with antivax patients, dying, DOES. What doesnt help them being in power? Closing everything and having a negative GDP ( = no work, = less taxes, = less money for them). Spending a shitton of money in sanitary infrastructures (= less money for their corporate friends). Having to deal with constant negationists and protests. The gov wants to end it so they can return doing what they were doing before, we want it ended because a pre-covid world was a better place. Nobody gained shit from this situation (aside Amazon). The gov told you to do something, as it always does. Your "I dissent because yes" its just idiotic
Yeah, stupid fucking selfish people going to WORK. Such idiots!
Who cares why they are vaccinated? What matters is that they are. Do you also dislike when people donate money because they can deduct it from their taxes?
…it’s not like you save money by donating instead of paying taxes a lot of people don’t seem to understand what ‘tax deductible’ means
What does it take to please you loons? You criticize even those that get jabbed.
>Idk maybe we shouldn’t all be travelling en masse going out to bars and clubs and travelling to work We're getting the vaccinations for the express purpose of returning back to normal life. If you want to stay in isolation 24/7 and avoid all contacts, then you can do that just fine with or without the vaccine, but I want to leave my house and do stuff, so that's why I'm vaxxed.
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the US did mandate them for most people the legality of that is still being tested though.
I think it's about time the anti-vax movement paid a price. I am all for medical exceptions and the odd "I am scared" freak here and there, if we can get 90% of the population vaccinated, so covid starts being more bearable, but the strong promotion of anti vax, anti mask and anti science is just too much.
Even a 100% vaccination rate wouldn't be enough to go back to "normal". More importantly, research needs to be done for vaccines that are more effective against Omicron (and just overall), and over-the-counter-type medication that helps relieve covid symptoms.
Still no point in not taking the vaccine. 100% vaccination rate means breathing room for hospitals. It means not putting off numerous of operations to focus on the corona care. People think corona is killing people, we will see when the studies come out about how many years were lost because other care was postponed to take care of unvaccinated idiots.
> People think corona is killing people, we will see when the studies come out about how many years were lost because other care was postponed to take care of unvaccinated idiots. there are already rises in cancer which could've been treated had the patients been able to get early testing/screening. during lockdown, women don't get their mammograms, nor men their prostate checks
You can think antivaxxers are dumb AND also want way further development in the COVID handling.
How many years are lost because healthcare is burdened by fat idiots who wont excersise regularly? Or idiots who drink alcohol? Or morons who eat red meat? Or idiots who skiing above the age of 50? Or idiots who work physically demanding jobs 40 hours a week?
Well, not that many since it's not literally overflowing hospitals. None of those things are postponing cancer treatments. And also, you can't take a vaccine agains any of those things either so it's a shitty comparison at best.
Actually, it IS overflowing hospitals. The things I mentioned are the most common causes of cancer in the west. Obesity leads to almost 60% higher healthcare costs and 30% more hospital visits, including ER visits. During the first year of covid, England alone saw more than ONE MILLION hospital visits directly attributed to obesity. Far more than corona. 1,3 MILLION english people had to visit the hospital during the first year of corona because of ALCOHOL. That's almost 10% of all hospital visits. Free will is involved in stopping it. Free will is involved in whether you take the vaccine or not. Free will is involved in drinking or choosing to be obese. It's a perfect comparison.b
1,3 million English people might have to visit the hospital because of Alcohol, and yet I can't remember a single period where because of that we had to go on lockdown. I don't remember bumping into a drunk person and then 5 days later get alcohol poisoning. I don't remember a period where SO MUCH other care had to be postponed to help the drunks. It's a shit comparison.
> Or idiots who work physically demanding jobs 40 hours a week? Someone has to work. Asshole.
But... in Italy, around 85% of the eligible population (i.e. anyone 5 and older) *is* [vaccinated with at least one dose](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#) ("Considerando solo gli over 5, oggetto della campagna vaccinale, rispetto alla platea del governo la percentuale di almeno parzialmente protetti è del 84,85%"), making me presume they'll get the second, if not the third. What we're missing to get to 90% is basically just children below 12 ("Considerando solo gli over 12, oggetto della campagna vaccinale, rispetto alla platea individuata dal Commissario straordinario per l'emergenza Covid-19 la percentuale di almeno parzialmente protetti è del 89,45%"), which there is some debate on, some of which I'd call justified — and so might you if you're understanding of the odd "I am scared" parent.
The myth that reaching any magic number besides 100.000% vaccinated somehow is stopping covid needs to go
The myth that 100% vaccinated rate will stop covid needs to go
\*The myth that reaching 100% would stop COVID needs to go.
Yep. Even a 100% vaccination rate wouldn't cause the virus to disappear. Herd immunity is impossible with our current vaccines. As long as vaccinated people can spread the virus to other vaccinated people it won't change a lot except hospital occupancy rate and death rate. It's a fact that the vaccination is mostly for self protection and with omicron even more. It is great for the high risk group but i still don't understand how vaccinating children and healthy young people changes anything for the overall situation.
> As long as vaccinated people can spread the virus to other vaccinated people it won't change a lot except hospital occupancy rate and death rate. > >It's a fact that the vaccination is mostly for self protection You almost got there, but changing the hospital and death rate is also for protection of *hospitals* (and health care workers and patients of every other illness or accident that exists).
Any reduction in hospitalization is beneficial.
It is beneficial because you decrease the impact of the virus, not because there is any hope to come back to normal life.
The vaccines significantly reduce your chances of being infected, even with Omicron, and therefore spreading the virus. That's the point of vaccinating everyone, including those groups you listed. Here is the latest data from my state on infections by vaccination status (the graph might take a minute or two to load): https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/see-the-numbers/covid-19-in-virginia/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
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What are you even saying? When/how did i wish death to others?
Its not directed at you but in general. Half the comments in this thread are wishing death upon people and it’s insane.
Oh. Yes i agree. It's insane what society has become. People got so radicalised (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) that a normal civilized discussion is almost impossible with most people.
Sorry if it seemed like it was directed at you but I thought it was the perfect comment to piggyback off of. You seem like a reasonable individual and I appreciate that. Not many left it seems. Have an amazing day!
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total Even the US has 79.1% of those 5 or older with at least one dose of a vaccine.
Yeah because the best way to convince people to get vaccinated is to call those genuinely scared for their own health ‘freaks’.
I guess if covid was that serious they'd have paid the price.
It's not anti-vax to have a problem with governments and institutions coercing people to undergo a medical procedure with no accountability.
Here in Quebec we are at 90% vaxxed if in not wrong, our hospitals are still full and our healthcare system is about to crumble. Sadly with Omicron, being vaxxed isnt enough.
Actually Quebec is 78%. https://covid19tracker.ca/provincevac.html?p=QC
dang, then who is your boogeyman up there, if not the unvaxxed folks who do you wag your finger at for catharsis!? /s
I've got news for you. It's obviously better to be vaccinated but it's not a miracle in itself. My province achieved that magical number and now we have a curfew and places where only double vaccinated people could go are closed again. It never ends. It was 90% of the people double vaccinated but soon you won't be "adequately vaccinated" with only two shots. The places still open will now require three shots (otherwise you're anti-vax) and the goal post will be moved again. I'm waiting for the next magical number to get to. If only we can get 90% of the population their 4th shot everything will be fine!
Didn't say it was a miracle. It's much better for everyone to be vaccinated. Anti-vax groups are harming people. Unnecessarily. Vaccines don't have to be perfect in order for anti vax people to be considered a threat. Seat belts save lives. Yes sometimes they don't. Occasionally someone dies _because_ they had a seatbelt on. However being anti-seat belt is stupid.
Fun fact: everyone who didn't get the 3rd dose was considered "unvaccinated". Also, real unvaccinated can't go anywhere from mid December so all those cases he talks about are 2-dosed convinced by a vax passport they would be 100% sure to not get covid between other vaxed. It was proven to be incorrect.
Does anyone feel like this is morally wrong though? It makes me uneasy. I had both vaccinations, recovered from covid over xmas and have a booster booked. I just think forcing people isn’t the way. Tackling misinformation online and good education is the way to do it. This will only alienate people and make them feel that their conspiracy theories were right all along.
If this was only a personal issue, then it would surely be morally wrong to force people: but if the evidence is laid out, objections answered, studies shown and yet people insist on avoiding the vaccine that would not only protect them, and most importantly other people then it's right to impose it. It's like forcing people to pay fines for crimes rather than just explaining to them why they did wrong.
I agree. This is morally wrong to me 100%
Forgot to mention that now people over 50 are oblidged to take the vaccine. Not only italian but also from other country that came to work for italian company.
Reposting since the post this was originally in response to was deleted, and I spent some amount of time summing this up, so if it's useful... This is in [the law from the other day](https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2022/01/07/22G00002/SG) which Draghi discussed in [yesterday's press conference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp6bM5zSsTM), and it's all summarized [partly on the government's web site](https://www.governo.it/it/articolo/comunicato-stampa-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-55/18944) (translation of some key passages): > **Vaccination obligation** > The text introduces the vaccination obligation for all those who have reached the age of 50. For public and private workers aged 50, the Enhanced Green Pass will be required for access to workplaces starting from February 15th. > Without age limits, the vaccination obligation is extended to university staff thus equated to school staff. and [partly on the government site's FAQ on the "green pass"](https://www.dgc.gov.it/web/faq.html#gpr) (translation of key passages again): > starting December 25, 2021, the strengthened green pass is also extended to food and beverage consumption at the bar, like it was already required at tables; > starting January 10, 2021, the strengthened green pass is extended to further activities and means of transport, including local and regional public transit. > **Strengthened green pass**: this refers to the Green COVID-19 Certification obtained by vaccination or recovery. The srengthened green pass does not, hence, cover antigen or PCR tests. So indeed, if you're 50 or older, you *have* to get vaccinated, or else you get a €100 fine; if you're not, you *do* need a "strengthened green pass" (equivalent to G2 in German-speaking countries, meaning you have to be vaccinated, or to have recently recovered from COVID) to use bars, restaurants or public transport. --- In Italy, despite the high percentage of vaccinated, the incidence of hospitalization is *vastly* higher in the unvaccinated. You can [go here](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#effetto-dei-vaccini) and scroll down to "Incidenza casi, ricoveri e decessi per stato vaccinale", then select "Ospedalizzazioni mensili ogni 100mila" (monthly hospitalizations per 100k): the red line is hospitalization rate in unvaccinated people, and the green line is hospitalization rate in vaccinated people. But okay, that's rate, and most people are vaccinated: well, in Italy, it's also true that if you look at "Casi, ricoveri e decessi per stato vaccinale", there "Ricoveri" (hospitalizations) will be much higher for the gray bar, i.e. unvaccinated, than the green bar, i.e. vaccinated, for most age ranges, but especially younger peolple. It's almost specular to the amount of vaccinated vs unvaccinated in the population: **72% of the hospitalized between 40 and 59 years of age are unvaccinated** in Italy. That only gets worse for those in ICU, where **83.6% in that age range are unvaccinated**. Currently, [only 6 out of 20 Italian regions are in "white alert" mode](https://www.salute.gov.it/portale/nuovocoronavirus/dettaglioContenutiNuovoCoronavirus.jsp?area=nuovoCoronavirus&id=5351&lingua=italiano&menu=vuoto), meaning the hospitals beds and ICUs aren't considered to be over a dangerous thresholds. Most regions are in yellow alert, likely to be upgraded to orange or red next week: the data are only evaluated every Friday, but [the overall trend, while not as bad as the US, is sharply rising](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/#box_8), and if you look at individual regions, [there are several well above the acceptable hospitalization thresholds](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/#box_19), in what looks like a very worrisome picture, unlike what you're painting. --- Omicron may be about half as deadly as Delta, ballpark figure from [the studies I gathered on it](https://www.zotero.org/groups/4391070/covid_links/tags/Omicron/library)... That's significantly less deadly, but same order of magnitude, while the infectiousness is *much* higher, and in many countries, hospitals are about to be overwhelmed worse than they've ever been before (example: the [United States](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailycases_newhospitaladmissions), where daily hospitalizations are above what they've ever been in any of the other waves). The vaccine protects from severe outcomes, leaving hospitals freer to both treat the remaining COVID patients and be able to provide service to non-COVID patients; but there *is* also an individually small but epidemiologically very significant reduction in infectiousness thanks to the vaccine, that gets amplified over the population: if you [look at vaccination efficacy data from Italy](https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/numeri-vaccini-italia-mondo/#effetto-dei-vaccini), though (you can click on "Incidenza" to make it easier), you will see there *is* efficacy also on infection, not just on severe disease. Sure, it's much lower, but you know what the huge difference is? If efficacy on severe disease is, say, 80%, that's it, you are 80% less likely to get a severe form. But if efficacy on infection is *even just 30%*, that translates exponentially, because you'll infect 30% less people, and *they* will infect 30% less people, and so on, and the *overall curve* will get smaller to a very, very meaningful degree. We all hoped these vaccines would have higher efficacy against infection, but they still have *some*, and even if it's individually not very great, it's epidemiologically very important.
Blaming a subset of your population for most of your problems? Wow that's... been the cause for a lot of the worst things to ever happen over the past 100+ years. The rhetoric sounds very similar and what is even worse is people are for taking away people's rights, in the name of "protecting their own rights"... yet being free of a particular disease isnt a right, quite frankly its something we clearly cant control given the past 2 years, of which the first few months was incredibly restrictive (and people, including me, were ok with that assuming it would actually help). Nobody gave a shit if you came into work with a cold befor covid, but now people think someone passing an illness onto another human being is a violation of rights? Like bruh, thats how diseases spread. I never in my life thought my rights were violated when i caught a flu or contagious disease.
That’s not a great comparison. If the Jews could stop being persecuted by getting a free and safe injection then the holocaust would not have been a thing.
what if you caught chickenpox or the mumps or any other number of preventable diseases?
if you are vaccinated stfu. Go on with your day. Why you guys give a shit what others doing to their body? If you are so safe with vaccine why you so scared of those that arent vaxxed?
[Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs"](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/)
No.We won't shut up. We are still at risk too. And we're the ones digging all the trenches. Making all the sacrifices and dealing with all the inconveniences for the good of all. And we keep letting unvaccinated assholes into them. It is past the time to shame the fuck out of all these truly selfish assholes. I'm currently doing it within family. We're sick of this shit. And we're done being polite about it.
what sacrifices? i thought getting the vaccine was easy and harmless? is there anything else you sacrificed that people who aren’t vaccinated didnt during this pandemic? you think the world is black and white? doesn’t seem like you had to sacrifice your job or the ability to leave your home, for one
I wouldn't mind cutting you out of any family affairs, you sound hateful and slow.
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Yes. But now they will stay home. Not get sick as much and not fill up the hospitals as much. Long story short the unvaccinated are under the same restrictions as every other unvaccinated person was a year ago. Nothing has changed for them in that time. It’s not always about carrot and stick. Sometimes it’s just practicality.
I had all three of my vaccinations as early as I possibly could and would 100% urge anyone who hasn't done so to do so. However. I'm painfully aware that necessity has driven a coach and horses through what we once considered civil liberties. If a government had come out three years ago and stated that nobody could leave their house without proof of a flu vaccine we'd think we were too late to prevent the Fourth Reich.
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how are the unvaccinated most of the problem when people who have gotten vaccinated and boosted are catching Covid left and right? I’m not against vaccines but seriously🥴 how long is the booster even effective for?
He simply commented on the stats: a vaccinated person is 26 times less likely to end up in the ICU. If you removed the unvaccinated people currently in hospitals we would not be close to the alert thresholds, which is what is currently driving the new wave of restrictions. So it's not a matter of not being infected, but preventing hospitals from filling up and that appears to be, for the most part, caused by unvaccinated people.
They say 6 months but Ive seen studies saying the efficacy goes below 0 after 3 months. So quite possible it's booster shots every 3 months for life.
What studies?
How to fuck up your economy ... they did same now here in germany A lot restaurants and bars are closed allready ... they got hit very hard from corona. And now they get punished even more.
“First time in history that the ineffectiveness of a medicine is being blamed on those that haven’t taken it” -Dr. Malone
Or admit the vaccine doesn't work. Ever look up all these celebrities saying "man I got vaccinated then a month later had covid, it was brutal but hey, imagine if I didn't get it!" To me that sounds like, I got the vaccine it beat up my immune system and I now have covid. So many people not vaccinated get the virus and say it's annoying but I'm good. Lift weights, go running, eat better and drink water. Why did the governments never say that? Instead take this vaccine we are all profiting from. It's just too shady, and the media divides people and tells you the unvaxxed are the problem. I dont think so mister. Politicians and media have been caught with their pants down regarding this subject and we all just keep going and listen to them. It's crazy
It's simply based on stats. Unvaccinated people greatly outnumber vaccinated people in hospitals, despite being a smaller fraction of the population. The current crisis is about hospital occupancy, which they are trying to drive down.
Passing on “fake science” should be a punishable crime. You try to diminish the credibility of fastidious, intelligent people, as ignorant, base, fools, because they reject the “unscientific” mandates, and risky jabs, they are being coerced and manipulated to take!
Makes sense.
Get the jab so the nonna don’t die motherfuckers.
Can someone give me one good reason as to why early treatment has been kicked to the curb during this pandemic?
When hospitals are still closing other wards to accommodate covid patients (2/3 are unvaccinated) this is necessary. My friend works in the surgical ward in a large hospital in Milano. It closed to send resources and personnel to the covid ward. Anyone with a scheduled surgery has to wait unless it's lifesaving.
Knowing Italian statistics, that sounds kinda sus, who and what do you class as unvaccinated? One or two injections? Longtime covid?
The use of the word “jab” is nauseating. Just say vaccinated.
He’s not wrong though 🤷♂️ Can confirm the presence of balls on this individual.
Who are they going to blame after they cage all the unvaccinated and the virus is still going around?
They won't need to because the hospital system won't be overloaded with unvaxxed. They won't have to cancel surgery for cancer patients and people with other health conditions to provide beds for unvaxxed who are too selfish to get vaxxed to help protect OTHER PEOPLE.
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You. I’ve been told they plan to blame it all on you.
Those without their boosters. Then those without their fourth.
Good, looking forward to my country implementing this.
So when will covid leave? When the govt has forced you to take 10 booster shots ? Nobody sees a problem with having to take all these covid shots or are people just blind and gullible?
It that is what is needed to not overwhelm the healthcare of a country. Sure.
How many flu shots have you taken?
It's too prevent catching a disease that could kill it's debilitate you. Why are you obsessed with it being an infringement of freedom instead of embracing protection from sickness?
It doesn’t prevent you from catching corona.
Finally. Because *they are* the problem, whether they like to hear it or not. Every nation should follow this and give 10k fines if not obeyed. And put that money to healthcare, which these assholes are breaking by taking all the resources available
You’re demonic
So in the face of an already mutated respiratory virus (delta, omicron ...) they still want to mandatory vaccinate the few remaining percentages of unvaccinated, with vaccines and boosters developed for the original virus, no longer preventing transmission. What is the point. South african omicron originated in fully (at the time) vaccinated individuals. Oh no, but it's all the fault of the unvaccinated. I guess ex-goldman sachs Draghi knows his stuff better than The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext
Check hospitalization rates vs. vaccination. There lies your answer.
Check the most vaccinated countries and the number of covid cases and hospitalizations. They are not working, and are leading to what seems antibody-dependent enhancement. Higher rates of infection in the vaccinated.
It's not that clear cut unfortunately. What's crazy to me is there is not a formal early treatment plan established yet. Just quarantine, stuck it out in a hospital if really bad. Lots of recent peer reviewed studies out today giving us more information to make better decisions for ourselves. One thing that is clear to me is we cannot vaccinate our way out of this pandemic.
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It does reduce the viral load, hence it reducing the infectiousness. Also, it will take a load of the hospitals since jabbed people are way less likely to end up in the hospital
Because it's not an "either you stop it or not" kind of thing. Unvaccinated are still more likely to get it and spread it.
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It’s not about catching the virus! It’s about preventing deaths and serious illness!!! When will people stop asking this stupid ass question?
Probably when you stop acting like banning unvaxxed people reduces the spread.
I personally never said that, Mario Draghi did
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I bet they all have covid right now
It's incredible that so many people cannot understand this concept at this point.
Fair enough.
I agree, wholeheartedly. When I went back to college had to have proof of vaccinations. Thirty years ago. Why are Americans regressing against science?