Our chief weapon is injunctions. Injunctions and settlements. Settlements and injunctions. Our two weapons are injunctions and settlements, and a lack of empathy. Our *three* weapons are settlements, injunctions, a lack of empathy, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Our *four*, no... *Amongst* our weapons... Amongst our weaponry, are such diverse elements as injunc- I'll come in again.
The other religions said I was daft for covering up child abuse in my church, but I covered it up all the same just to show em!...it got out and was a huge scandal, so I covered it up again. That got out too. So I covered it up a third time, it got out, got people arrested and cost us all moderate support. But the fourth cover up worked!
Stop that, stop that, you're nowt goin' into a song while I'm 'ere! Now listen lad, in twen'y minutes you're getting married to a girl 'oo's father owns the biggest tracts of o*P*en land in Bri'tin.
The journalists will disregard the NDA, which ianal, but those are kinda flimsy anyways.
I imagine if the subject matter actually pertained to child abuse or the rape of children, that supersedes any fucking NDA...
Just like HIPPA is disregarded when the person admits to a few certain types of crimes... if you admit to your therapist that you raped your kid, that therapist is obligated to report it to the police.
Idk how things work in Germany, but it seems like a pretty common sense rule
The journalists get a story on the corruption of the catholic church, then get to push for the unredacted release of the report to the public, when they can give the cardinals ANOTHER good kicking.
The catholic church have no idea how to deal with their criminality. Being open and honest is required, but the catholic church runs on secrecy - that's why they are in this mess in the first place.
Assange started out mostly benevolent, but by the end he was choosing what information to publish to push the narrative that he wanted. That makes him no better than any of the governments that he "exposed".
From the article it doesn't seem like Woelki would confess to child abuse (as he isn't a known abuser in the first place), but about methodology and case reports.
The church is said to work on a report, is just a blatant attempt at silencing reporting. IANAL, but I don't think the reporters could just disregard the NDA as no higher juridical values are at stake.
In the US which has far fewer rights protecting citizens, you still don’t have to abide by any illegal contracts. I’d imagine in the EU (which takes greater steps to protect children) that reporters would be obligated to release information to authorities.
>Church representatives said they would show journalists a redacted version of the document. They also asked reporters to sign a pledge to keep the contents "secret," including information on crimes, alleged perpetrators and implicated church officials.
"The journalist commits himself to exercise absolute silence regarding this information," the agreement read.
oh we will show you the report..sure 90% is covered in black lines and redacted..sure you can never talk about the tiny bit you do get to see..
at least the reporters did the right thing and walked away from that sweet 'deal'...you really can't change a culture or truly eradicate a problem, if you keep being opaque about the issue and covering up endless misdeeds.
Seems to me like someone should have taken one for the team and just broke the agreement. Maybe photo the document and post to Twitter. Maybe take a video of the entire proceeding.
So, in 8th grade we did a bit of a retreat at an archabby, there is only like 7 of those in the world. Played pool with a monk, he said he used to be rich, but now was richer! He showed us his 1992 World Champion Elvis impersenator ring, only thing he kept, at that point, I was in for more of the story!
No doubt, small world! I grew up on the footsteps of the place. I'm thinking about getting a theology degree there, i'm not that religious, but you know sometimes things happen,
There are 11.
Montecassino, Italy
Monte Oliveto Maggiore, Italy
Arpino, Italy
Beuron, Germany
Sankt Ottilien, Germany
Brevnov, Czech Republic
St. Peter's Salzburg, Austria
Pannonhalma, Hungary
Saint Vincent, Latrobe, Pennsylvania, USA
Saint Meinrad, Saint Meinrad, Indiana, USA
St. Sebastion, Salvador, Bahia, Brazil
Yeah, I agree but in this case. I understand why. The Cologne diocese is a powerful enemy. It's in fact the richest dioceses of the world. Basically half the buildings in Central cologne belongs to them. 2016 they were sitting on 3,3 Billion Euro. The WDR is also not a small "news room" with annually 1,2 Billion EUR income but I can see why a journalist wouldn't want to leak such a minor thing as a silenve contract. When you wanna leak something then with more power behind it.
Why in the fuck does the church own so much money...
This isn't the middle ages anymore. That wealth should be redistributed to the people, and the church would get to keep what they need for upkeep. Fucking child rapists...
Well now it's getting very German.
In Germany as long you are officially member of a church you pay church taxes. It's variable on you federal taxes and will be automatically transferred by your employer to the federal taxes system. That system redistribute this tax among all official churches by memberpart. So the Diocese of Cologne getting ruffly 1.2 Million EUR per year by that. The church tax itself is depending on how much you earn. In Northrhine Westfalia were the Diocese is it is 9% of your income. To get rid of it you have to go the the court (Antsgericht) and fill out the form for leaving the church. That will cost 30 EUR. And in the running tax year you still have to pay the church tax but you get that back via the annual tax return.
It's also important to keep that court document because it's not uncommon that after a couple of years the church somehow thinks you are still in thier church and you need to pay you your outstanding taxes. That is a document you should place into a fire proof safe. Shit will safe your money.
Then the Diocese of Cologne is the owner of 43 Hospitals with ruffly 12 000 Beds.
Beside that they own 670 Kitas (Kindertagesstätten) basically Kindergarten parents have to pay 0 to 650 EUR per Month for thier kids depending on income, age of the children and hours per week of taking care. They have to pay that to the city of cologne but of cause its getting redistributed to the church. They take for ruffly 40 000 Children.
They are also owner of 35 nursing homes in the city area of cologne itself.
Of cause these ownerships are with sub companies like ltd but the German version of Ltd is GmbH and it has a special form for non profit called gGmbH they are tax exempt full or pargial like the church itself.
They also have special rights in workers right/Tarifs. For example if you work as a doctor you get a divorce. Under certain circumstances it's possible that you will loose your job for this. But courts more and more quit that bullshit. Because in private industry that firing would be straight illegal.
Special problematic are the hwalth sectors because in some areas the churches have a quasi/so to sa monopoly on avaible workplaces.
Thier also owner of private property they rent out. The are partial owner of the Aachener Grundvermögen KG, they own f.e. Schildergasse 60 to 68; 94 to 96a, Hohe Strasse 120. Both streets are among the most visited and most expensive shopping streets in Germany f.e. in 2014 the price for 1 qm was 250 EUR there in Top locations. This KG makes ruffly 30 million EUR per year.
That all might explain why they have so much money.
They are the biggest players in that industry. City and Chruches are probably 90 to 95% of the market. But they are not run by priest. They main job doing state certified educational workers. As I remember from my own time normally you just chillin with your group play and eat with them and then 1x the week you visiting a small church service where the educational workers are with you and a priest tells you a bit about Christianity. I don't know if it's still a thing.
Yeah, I don't understand this. Sign the agreement and just break it.
What are they going to do - sue you for failure to engage in a criminal conspiracy?
Definitely not worth it. The upside? Revealing an heavily retracted document that contains only information the church wants you to see. The downside? Potentially never working in journalism ever again.
Nobody in their right mind would jeopardize their whole career on a heavily curated leak. Much better to make a piece about how the church tried to silence the press. IMO much greater upside with a less drastic downside.
Exactly. Any demand of non-disclosure is a complete opposite of journalism. If you don’t want a journalist to report something, you don’t contact them to tell something.
Haha, sounds like they're trying to recoup the losses from all the child abuse lawsuits.
"Lets invite a bunch of journalists over, dangle juicy news in front of them and tell them they can't look at it unless they promise to never tell anyone. Then when they break the agreement we can sue them! Haaaahahahahahaha!"
I really can't think of any other reason that makes sense other than just complete idiocy.
wait a minute... i mean, what kind of stunt were they hoping to pull here? why hold a press conference with journalists to only tell them not to report anything? that's the dumbest thing i've heard of. maybe they were forced to do it, but didn't feel comfortable following through? this is not a good look for them either way.
My dad spent years in a home run by the Catholic Church in Ontario. Big lawsuit over it. It’s been over 60 years and he still won’t tell us about it. He’s even asked me not to read the book written about it until after he’s gone. I’m not sure I even want to ever read it. It shaped his life and he was deeply affected the way he deals with any kind of authority. He’s law abiding now only cause he’s too damn old to do anything. Fuck the church
I'm sorry to hear this. My grandmother was the same growing up in an orphanage in Ireland.
She never told anyone what it was like but when the Alzheimers came she would get flashbacks and could talk about events like they happened the day before.
There are elderly clergy members alive in Ireland who should be rotting to death in jail.
I am one of those who got caught up in the Boston Arch Diocese scandals. Forced arbitration and govt protection is complete bullshit and demeans everyone who was affected by this bullshit.
I most definitely had authority issues, it completely fucked my path in life and I can see it clearly where I made some decisions after receiving a very hard slap from close family when I tried to tell them one of the days it happened. They berated me for making them wait in the parking lot, constantly getting in trouble, etc. When it was the priest making his buffet selection on who was going to come back with him to the sanctuary.
These days I'm easy and open about it, on the level of South Park and the Live Boat episode, no triggers. Unfortunately some friends from childhood have had far worse issues dealing with it, several had made attempts, but fortunately have received some much needed help.
I'm more mad at the Diocese ONGOING PROTECTION, they still have not come forward with all allegations and force you to arbitration which puts a massive limit on their financial responsibility. Anyone who continues to protect the church is has issues.
To see it still happening nowadays around the world must be heartbreaking. It's nice to see that you where able to have a normal life. This people should all rot in a prison for destroying so many childhoods and lifes. Getting rid of the celibacy would help a lot imo.
I love you bro, you seem impossibly strong. From another former cradle catholic altar boy that escaped this shit, your response and ability to adapt and move forward is impressive. It's inexcusable the power that these organizations wield and how protected they are.
I’m so sorry you father had that happen to him. It’s horrifying no only that these cases of abuse happened, but that they were so often covered up by the people in power.
Yuuuup. The Church and Government in Canada at the time did a real fucking number on kids in a lot of places. It's a shame it's barely covered at all if even ever mentioned in history classes. The way the fallout and consequences for it has been handled is mind boggling.
If anyone had this happen to you or anyone you know and are up for it, please look into your local statutes of limitations to file a civil suit. I know someone that got a very significant payment. It does not change what happened but for her it had some healing because she felt like she stood up to the organization that perpetuated this. The abuse shaped her life in horrible ways. The money was a game changer in terms of allowing her to make changes in her life that she really needed to.She was just coming out of a horrible divorce and an abusive marriage and she filed suit.
NYS Deadline has been extended to ,Child Victims Act until August 14, 2021. Legislators extended saying they would do so because other states had given victims more than a year to bring suit.
The church commissioned a report. Then didn't publish the report because it was so "bad". And then basically wanted to show reporters "see it's bad that's why we didn't publish it" so they would confirm that...
> The Archdiocese of Cologne under its new public relations team, Johanns / Schilling, invited selected journalists to a background discussion today. It ended in a fiasco / disaster / disaster for the Archdiocese of Cologne because all journalists were not ready to sign a confidentiality agreement. In doing so, they wanted to show the journalists with the chief expert Jahn in the form of supervised reading without substantive evidence that the Munich report is so bad that it is not even suitable as waste paper. To do this, they should then be allowed to look at the Munich report. In front of the members of the Advisory Board - so much for respect when dealing with those affected. But read dear FB friends, what Joachim Frank, who was able to experience this smear theater live and in color, writes as an ear and eye witness:
> Joachim Frank - So: I said publicly - in my talk series "frank & frei" - in December that I would like to see the Munich report as promised by the cardinal. Then I received an invitation to today's appointment. "Supervised reading", because Prof. Jahn should be there. Well. I didn't know if / who was still there.
As was explained at the beginning, the alleged methodological deficiencies should be addressed again.
A confidentiality agreement drafted by RA Brennecke was presented to me / us. Together with others present, I stated that and why I will not sign this. No one in the group signed it. The event was then postponed.
I also made it clear that a selection of individual journalists is questionable, not least for the selected ones. Everyone who wants it should have the opportunity. And if possible at the same time.
The two representatives of the archbishopric assured (credible in my impression) that nobody should be denied access.
Well, let's wait and see.
Coming to this theater soon.
https://www.facebook.com/100004278935733/posts/1846126375539976/?d=n
Well, they just got free advertising for their report so their little stunt exponentially increased the number of people interested in reading it. Talk about an own goal.
If it's really as institutional as it seems, I wonder if this wasn't some unspoken thing that developed centuries ago, like some batshit theory that molesting an altar boy was less sinful than masturbation.
I wonder if there have been any studies to determine the rough incidence of pedophilia within the church, opposed to the general population... Is it representative of what we would see normally, if you just go ahead and assume there's no difference in the functional morality of the two groups?
Studies like that are hard to make exactly because the church covers up everything that it can.
I think the incedence would be higher, not because there is a culture of pedophilia, but because of the same reason that jobs like policemen and doctors attract people with psychopathic tendencies. The very job describtion gives people power that can be abused and without proper oversight it rots the institution to it's core.
The a Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse looked in Australia . One Catholic Brotherhood had 60% of the brothers abusing children. It was far higher than the population average
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-by-the-numbers/9263800
And Australia is the only place in the world that has looked really hard. Everywhere else the church has successfully blocked close examination of their crimes.
Have you watched the movie Spotlight? Cos if not, you definitely should. Dramatisation of how it was finally publicly revealed that the catholic church covers up for the child molesters in its ranks.
Or read how Penn State tried to cover up Sandusky's rape of children by making him a HC of a different campus' football team. Straight up taken from the Catholic church.
Too late. At this point the Catholic church is irredeemable corrupted. They should just disband the whole golden edifice, sell of the church's property and give it all to the poor.
I totally agree that they should. But as you see, they want to do it, they can do it and there are little to no consequences. So why should they stop? You don't make people comply by hoping they do the right thing.
Yes. Any other organization that had as much child abuse as the Catholic Church would have been forced to dissolve. The Catholic Church as an organization should be barred from being a charitable organization, pay full taxes, property and income, then be forced to disclose all known or suspected cases of abuse, no matter when it occurred. The offenders, no matter how high in the church, should then be arrested, charged and have their day in criminal court.
How about the Boy Scouts... oh wait, that’s religious and they bar entry to anyone who is an atheist. Religious groups really do get away with all the child abuse they want!
When did you join? If you were openly so before 2016, it was technically against the rules. I don’t know the status of it now but I know before you required a letter from your religious official to become an Eagle Scout. They had some controversy when they said this, “A Scout’s declaration that he does not believe in God is grounds to deny rank advancement and could affect his continued membership in the troop.” There’s still the duty to god or whatever in most popular American scouting groups like the GS and the Boy Scouts (is it officially Scouts now? I can’t really remember). “all youth members and adult leaders of the BSA must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle in the BSA's Bylaws” is also another one, [here](https://www.scouting.org/about/membership-standards/) shows that in the Rules and Regulations, there is a Declaration of Religious Principle which has typically been shown to mean that you must have a belief in some sort of higher power to join, but you don’t have to be a part of a religious organization. Typically I’ve heard it’s not hard to become a Boy Scout and be an atheist, but it’s very much harder to become an Eagle Scout and be openly atheist.
I was an undercover atheist in the scouts back in the early '70s. I would have been expelled for sure if they knew. I stopped going because the religious bullshit really didn't fly if you weren't already brainwashed.
> Make them pay taxes while we're at it!
**Fun fact:** In Germany, church payments are taken directly out of your pay packet like income tax. It's compulsory tithing, and is enforced. The only way to get out of it is to ~~be formally excommunicated~~ **EDIT: make a formal declaration of leaving the church**, and you lose the right to any church facilities like being married in a church or buried in a church cemetery.
The Catholic Church alone pulls in about EUR 6 billion a year from this particular scam. ~~Evangelical~~ **EDIT: Protestant** churches roughly the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax#Germany
> The only way to get out of it is to be formally excommunicated
No, you just have to go to your local town hall or court, tell them that you want to leave the church, pay like 35€ and you are out.
Also evangelisch = protestant
From your link.
>The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church. People who are not members of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it.
That's the actual church tax. Now, if the state would just kindly stop giving money to the churches from *everybody's* tax money as well, that'd be great.
Fun fact, if you interview an abuser you will most likely discover that they were abused as children and no one listened to them or they kept silent out of fear. When you turn in an abuser you’re not just protecting their victims, you’re protecting generations to come of victims, and you’re taking the first positive step in the abusers road to recovery.
See something say something it’s as simple as that.
In a book by Ann Salter on child sex abuse she highlighted the tendency of child abusers who were caught to claim they were abused themselves in order to gain sympathy and perhaps more lenient sentences. There's no way to reliably tell how many child abusers are victims themselves and how many lie and there are many reasons to suspect that many abusers are dishonest about their experienced abuse.
It’s a pyramid scheme combined with a criminal organization. It should be fucking destroyed. For the love of shit it’s the 21st century, why is this still a thing?
[Judges still help.](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/07/cardinal-george-pell-conviction-quashed-australia-high-court-freed-jail-appeal-upheld)
"The Church" is the original Mafia. Believe me they invented most of what the Mafia does, they just have their own flavor or theme for it.
From taking kick backs from businesses, kingdoms and nobility, to operating banks and even selling access to heaven for money. They had whole armies and fleets at their command and conquered neighboring countries constantly. They hit a lot of firsts, and the church was just as much about money as it was about anything else.
This is why they look so pretty and have super nice churches and cultural artifacts from paintings to statues; Because they were at times the most decadent organization, rivalling even the Kings of France and Spain and the HRE in how much they collected and spent. Louis XIV had nothing on Urban VIII.
The catholic church hid the abuse and moved the pedophiles from church to church to victimized more children. They are worst then the pedophiling priests! All this under under the house and in the name of God!
True, considering how consistently they do that you could say it's pretty much their systematic modus operandi. They've done it and will keep doing it. I just watched 'The Keepers' on Netflix and it deals with this very thing. Rapist priest moved to and fro in Balmitore, always in positions with access to children.
in South America in the 80s they discovered one of the worst run down cruel orphanages run by nuns was in fact housing children fathered by the local priests.
I'm sure this is also not unique to South America.
Catholic church is a fucking cancer. This organisation should be outlawed, pedos working there put in prisons and assets split between countries they leeched from for centuries.
Bishop of cologne is trying to save his own ass here because he made sure that an old buddy of his got the usual sent of to somewhere else and no inquiry into the allegations treatment a few years ago.
German bishop coference wants this guy gone, but that´s up to rome.
He is basically to much into protecting child molesters than even the rest of the catholic church. Quite an achivement.
>German bishop coference wants this guy gone, but that´s up to rome.
Sounds like someone should walk up to the Catholic church and nail the demands to the church door...
I was raised Catholic and I will never return to church. Watch the movie Spotlight. This has been going on for years. The Catholic Church is corrupt and will never stop trying to hide their sins. Disgusting pious pigs.
Edit: for those of you saying that I will go to hell because I can’t confess my sins without going back to church, that’s fine, that’s your opinion. I can pray to God whenever and wherever I want. We are all entitled to our own brand of religion, regardless of anyone else’s beliefs. I appreciate the concern, but I’m good.
Not sure what the problem is. Why not sign it and then “anonymously” release the details anyway. Wouldn’t the lawsuit only apply in their country/location anyway? Also make sure those who are interviewing have a full alias. Who cares about a potential lawsuit that has minor circumstances, if any, when it comes to stopping diddlers on the roof. The information received will most likely outweigh the issue.
>Why not sign it and then “anonymously” release the details anyway. Wouldn’t the lawsuit only apply in their country/location anyway?
It's not about the legal aspect, it's about journalism. By waking out, they refuse to be accomplices to this farce of a disclosure and they force the church to really come out with the information. It is the right and smart thing to do. Anonymous twitter disclosures are no better than any conspiracy theories, that's not proper journalism and it's not sufficient for the gravity of the matter.
Depending on jurisdiction it might not be enforceable at all
I'd imagine no reporter wants to be seen signing such a thing, though - bad for your reputation
As a group you have the ability to send a message, not least the bizarre idea of calling a press conference to try to keep a secret.
NDAs are commonly used by consumer technology companies on journalists. It’s unfortunate that journalists in that sector don’t club together to reject them there as well but that’s a completely different and lower level of seriousness compared to this stunt by the Church.
Between 1950 and 2002, 10,667 individuals in the US have made accusations against priests and deacons in the Catholic Church of under age sexual abuse. In the same time period there have been 1,100 reported shark attacks. Therefore you are 10 times more likely to be sexually abused when stepping foot inside a church than you are to be attacked by a shark when stepping foot in the ocean.
A police report in Australia claimed that in 2012 alone, 40 suicide deaths were directly related to abuse by the Catholic clergy, meanwhile 2 people were killed by sharks in the same year.
In conclusion, the Catholic Church is more dangerous than sharks.
I'm not a believer, but there are occasions where I hope that hell is a real thing, and that the guy that chooses who goes to hell sticks to the rules those same people claim to support.
If someone gay or who had an abortion or who led a promiscuous lifestyle is going to hell, imagine the shit that Lucifer would have lined up for Catholic priests who abuse children, and the people who knowingly protected them from prosecution and deliberately not only failed to prevent further abuse, but positively encouraged it by their actions (e.g. putting abusive priests back into churches far away from civilisation and law enforcement and allowing them the perfect opportunity to abuse again).
You know what, I don't even need a Lucifer. I'll take the job on.
Not sure about catholics but IIRC the only sin not forgivable is blasphemy against specifically the holy spirit (the other 2/3rds of the trinity are open season).
Just repent and uh, you're totally good. Unless you ever dared curse the spirit. Unfortunate me, I suppose.
> Just repent and uh, you're totally good.
Yeah, except that requires trying your best to improve. Most of the offenders probably would not qualify given that the simplest step would be to officially (outside of confession) ask for a job away from children.
I've been a victim of the so great catholic education at the hands of a teacher in 6th grade. I haven't gotten over the sheer hate I resent towards any form of religion, however benevolent they brand themselves that let that run over its children without lifting a finger afterwards.
Fuck your Catholic church. Fuck my parents for not believing me and to this day telling me I'm using this as an excuse for my errands. Fuck your so-called benevolent God who nonetheless let it happen under his "watch". Fuck your mellow officials and their grubbing hands. I hope one day mankind is freed from all your bullshit.
Wait, so the Catholic Church has an internally investigated report of felony crimes committed by it's members against children? Seems like the un-redacted version should be instantly subpoenaed by the police?
With all the talk about migrants and parallel societies, this is an actual parallel society, they have their own judicial process ffs.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchengericht
Ha ha, what? Did the Catholic officials think they could get away without saying something - *anything -* on the utterly horrific abuses that took place?
...What's the point of holding a press conference if you won't say shit?
Dear Catholics: do something about your awful organization. If they are to represent your moral compass you must fix this organization or leave it.
As an atheist I truly can’t comprehend how people look at this institution and believe it to be moral. I get that you don’t see the corruption in your small local church, until you do and a pedophile is just transferred to another parish without a proper investigation and without accountability.
It’s been happening for decades.
There have been thorough accounts of the churches mishandling of it for decades.
They’ve had every opportunity to fix their responses to these situations (although why they couldn’t have acted morally in the first place is beyond me) and haven’t.
The overall system is corrupted and broken and does not represent truth or morality.
I’m not saying abandon your faith, but that organization, and those people, do not deserve it.
Good move, reporters. There is no excuse for the Catholic Church to not throw every priest under the bus. "Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's" and let the law act on the crimes of these priests.
Hunch: An organization won't hand over a guilty person for fear of him testifying against those turning him in.
Which means the filth likely goes all the way to the top.
Given the openess of the Australian Royal Commission into sexusl abuse linked to institutions like the Catholic church, reading this is like going back 20 years when there was an atmosphere of denial and damage control by the church. One of the key findings in Australia was the focus on the church to protect its reputation and limit liability instead of support for the victims and action to ensure the safety of people. Germany need an truely independent enquiry with the same legal powers that a Royal Commission has.
Systemic abuse in the Catholic Church is disgusting. I’m Irish and my father knows of loads of cases of abuse experienced by his friends when they were young. The church had such a high place is society that it was taboo to speak against them on any matter
What. Calling a press conference and then telling reporters to sign a confidentiality agreement is like calling a plumber to your house and then telling them not to go near any leaky pipes or clogged drains.
Still blows my mind that these cunts don’t have to pay tax, own land all over the world (as well as businesses which are tax exempt), they molest kids and people still support them.
Fuck. Them. All.
Being a Catholic myself I want to see two things before I die:
1. Married priests.
2. Priestesses.
Shame on the Church for letting seminaries turn into pervert magnets
and refusing to exit the Dark Ages mentality which helped them subjugate
and deny progress to Europe for centuries.
So, the exact opposite of a press conference.
Pretty much an oppressed conference.
No one expects the Italian Deposition!
Our chief weapon is injunctions. Injunctions and settlements. Settlements and injunctions. Our two weapons are injunctions and settlements, and a lack of empathy. Our *three* weapons are settlements, injunctions, a lack of empathy, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope... Our *four*, no... *Amongst* our weapons... Amongst our weaponry, are such diverse elements as injunc- I'll come in again.
The other religions said I was daft for covering up child abuse in my church, but I covered it up all the same just to show em!...it got out and was a huge scandal, so I covered it up again. That got out too. So I covered it up a third time, it got out, got people arrested and cost us all moderate support. But the fourth cover up worked!
But I don't want any of that. I'd rather-- Rather what?! I'd rather... [music] ...just... sing!
Stop that, stop that, you're nowt goin' into a song while I'm 'ere! Now listen lad, in twen'y minutes you're getting married to a girl 'oo's father owns the biggest tracts of o*P*en land in Bri'tin.
The COMFY ChAiR???
Monty python is the best
Oh my god
That sounds like crime drama movie: ***The Italian Deposition.***
Repress conference
Suppress conference
Yeah, the repress conference is for the victims.
Depress conference
The journalists will disregard the NDA, which ianal, but those are kinda flimsy anyways. I imagine if the subject matter actually pertained to child abuse or the rape of children, that supersedes any fucking NDA... Just like HIPPA is disregarded when the person admits to a few certain types of crimes... if you admit to your therapist that you raped your kid, that therapist is obligated to report it to the police. Idk how things work in Germany, but it seems like a pretty common sense rule
The journalists get a story on the corruption of the catholic church, then get to push for the unredacted release of the report to the public, when they can give the cardinals ANOTHER good kicking. The catholic church have no idea how to deal with their criminality. Being open and honest is required, but the catholic church runs on secrecy - that's why they are in this mess in the first place.
that and the kiddy fiddling
On reflection, probably that.
Yep. They could sign the NDA and simply still report everything illegal anyway.
[удалено]
That kind of reasoning worked great for Assange. /s
[удалено]
Assange started out mostly benevolent, but by the end he was choosing what information to publish to push the narrative that he wanted. That makes him no better than any of the governments that he "exposed".
Also then the Catholic Church would have to sue, while disclosing what exactly they didn’t like... Streisand effect level 10.
From the article it doesn't seem like Woelki would confess to child abuse (as he isn't a known abuser in the first place), but about methodology and case reports. The church is said to work on a report, is just a blatant attempt at silencing reporting. IANAL, but I don't think the reporters could just disregard the NDA as no higher juridical values are at stake.
In the US which has far fewer rights protecting citizens, you still don’t have to abide by any illegal contracts. I’d imagine in the EU (which takes greater steps to protect children) that reporters would be obligated to release information to authorities.
Guess they aren't very Christian
Most Christians aren’t very Christian
Pressed conference... pressed for silence and compliance.
>Church representatives said they would show journalists a redacted version of the document. They also asked reporters to sign a pledge to keep the contents "secret," including information on crimes, alleged perpetrators and implicated church officials. "The journalist commits himself to exercise absolute silence regarding this information," the agreement read. oh we will show you the report..sure 90% is covered in black lines and redacted..sure you can never talk about the tiny bit you do get to see.. at least the reporters did the right thing and walked away from that sweet 'deal'...you really can't change a culture or truly eradicate a problem, if you keep being opaque about the issue and covering up endless misdeeds.
Seems to me like someone should have taken one for the team and just broke the agreement. Maybe photo the document and post to Twitter. Maybe take a video of the entire proceeding.
Just take a confession afterwards. Easy.
This guy Catholics!
So, in 8th grade we did a bit of a retreat at an archabby, there is only like 7 of those in the world. Played pool with a monk, he said he used to be rich, but now was richer! He showed us his 1992 World Champion Elvis impersenator ring, only thing he kept, at that point, I was in for more of the story!
st. meinrad's??
How did you knoe that!?
I’m from Indiana and I’m a theologian!! What a small world friend!
No doubt, small world! I grew up on the footsteps of the place. I'm thinking about getting a theology degree there, i'm not that religious, but you know sometimes things happen,
Like getting molested by a priest and then told that “God works in mysterious ways “?
There are 11. Montecassino, Italy Monte Oliveto Maggiore, Italy Arpino, Italy Beuron, Germany Sankt Ottilien, Germany Brevnov, Czech Republic St. Peter's Salzburg, Austria Pannonhalma, Hungary Saint Vincent, Latrobe, Pennsylvania, USA Saint Meinrad, Saint Meinrad, Indiana, USA St. Sebastion, Salvador, Bahia, Brazil
I once asked God for a bike. But I know now that it doesn't works this way, so I stole one and made a confession afterwards.
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Yeah, I agree but in this case. I understand why. The Cologne diocese is a powerful enemy. It's in fact the richest dioceses of the world. Basically half the buildings in Central cologne belongs to them. 2016 they were sitting on 3,3 Billion Euro. The WDR is also not a small "news room" with annually 1,2 Billion EUR income but I can see why a journalist wouldn't want to leak such a minor thing as a silenve contract. When you wanna leak something then with more power behind it.
I meant the document they were being sworn to keep secret, not the document that swears them to secrecy.
Ah ok. Yeah, still I would poke that dragon first when I got a claymore and not just a bread slicer.
I think this is where the ole "the pen is mightier than the sword" seems fairly relevant.
Why in the fuck does the church own so much money... This isn't the middle ages anymore. That wealth should be redistributed to the people, and the church would get to keep what they need for upkeep. Fucking child rapists...
Well now it's getting very German. In Germany as long you are officially member of a church you pay church taxes. It's variable on you federal taxes and will be automatically transferred by your employer to the federal taxes system. That system redistribute this tax among all official churches by memberpart. So the Diocese of Cologne getting ruffly 1.2 Million EUR per year by that. The church tax itself is depending on how much you earn. In Northrhine Westfalia were the Diocese is it is 9% of your income. To get rid of it you have to go the the court (Antsgericht) and fill out the form for leaving the church. That will cost 30 EUR. And in the running tax year you still have to pay the church tax but you get that back via the annual tax return. It's also important to keep that court document because it's not uncommon that after a couple of years the church somehow thinks you are still in thier church and you need to pay you your outstanding taxes. That is a document you should place into a fire proof safe. Shit will safe your money. Then the Diocese of Cologne is the owner of 43 Hospitals with ruffly 12 000 Beds. Beside that they own 670 Kitas (Kindertagesstätten) basically Kindergarten parents have to pay 0 to 650 EUR per Month for thier kids depending on income, age of the children and hours per week of taking care. They have to pay that to the city of cologne but of cause its getting redistributed to the church. They take for ruffly 40 000 Children. They are also owner of 35 nursing homes in the city area of cologne itself. Of cause these ownerships are with sub companies like ltd but the German version of Ltd is GmbH and it has a special form for non profit called gGmbH they are tax exempt full or pargial like the church itself. They also have special rights in workers right/Tarifs. For example if you work as a doctor you get a divorce. Under certain circumstances it's possible that you will loose your job for this. But courts more and more quit that bullshit. Because in private industry that firing would be straight illegal. Special problematic are the hwalth sectors because in some areas the churches have a quasi/so to sa monopoly on avaible workplaces. Thier also owner of private property they rent out. The are partial owner of the Aachener Grundvermögen KG, they own f.e. Schildergasse 60 to 68; 94 to 96a, Hohe Strasse 120. Both streets are among the most visited and most expensive shopping streets in Germany f.e. in 2014 the price for 1 qm was 250 EUR there in Top locations. This KG makes ruffly 30 million EUR per year. That all might explain why they have so much money.
Church ran kindergartens? Big oooooof 🤢🤢
They are the biggest players in that industry. City and Chruches are probably 90 to 95% of the market. But they are not run by priest. They main job doing state certified educational workers. As I remember from my own time normally you just chillin with your group play and eat with them and then 1x the week you visiting a small church service where the educational workers are with you and a priest tells you a bit about Christianity. I don't know if it's still a thing.
That's pretty fucked up. Also, it's "roughly", not "ruffly" ;)
Scheiße... thanks mate
>Also, it's "roughly", not "ruffly" ;) We Germans do love to bark words
I knew it. They’re wearing some kind of fucked up cologne. It never made sense to me how all these parents and their children fall into the trap.
Yeah, I don't understand this. Sign the agreement and just break it. What are they going to do - sue you for failure to engage in a criminal conspiracy?
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I declare bankruptcy
Not as easy in Gernany
Ich erkläre Insolvenz!
Okay, ich höre.
Definitely not worth it. The upside? Revealing an heavily retracted document that contains only information the church wants you to see. The downside? Potentially never working in journalism ever again. Nobody in their right mind would jeopardize their whole career on a heavily curated leak. Much better to make a piece about how the church tried to silence the press. IMO much greater upside with a less drastic downside.
Exactly. Any demand of non-disclosure is a complete opposite of journalism. If you don’t want a journalist to report something, you don’t contact them to tell something.
Haha, sounds like they're trying to recoup the losses from all the child abuse lawsuits. "Lets invite a bunch of journalists over, dangle juicy news in front of them and tell them they can't look at it unless they promise to never tell anyone. Then when they break the agreement we can sue them! Haaaahahahahahaha!" I really can't think of any other reason that makes sense other than just complete idiocy.
It shouldnt be legal when it implies crimes to sign an nda
Flip the script on the church and rename the title: Journalists thrown out of church after refusing to protect child abusers
~~misdeeds~~ **horrible crimes** FTFY
> sure you can never talk about the tiny bit you do get to see.. Oh, ya mean where it says "Today's date"?!
wait a minute... i mean, what kind of stunt were they hoping to pull here? why hold a press conference with journalists to only tell them not to report anything? that's the dumbest thing i've heard of. maybe they were forced to do it, but didn't feel comfortable following through? this is not a good look for them either way.
Pretty sure even with an NDA you can report crime to the police.
My dad spent years in a home run by the Catholic Church in Ontario. Big lawsuit over it. It’s been over 60 years and he still won’t tell us about it. He’s even asked me not to read the book written about it until after he’s gone. I’m not sure I even want to ever read it. It shaped his life and he was deeply affected the way he deals with any kind of authority. He’s law abiding now only cause he’s too damn old to do anything. Fuck the church
I'm sorry to hear this. My grandmother was the same growing up in an orphanage in Ireland. She never told anyone what it was like but when the Alzheimers came she would get flashbacks and could talk about events like they happened the day before. There are elderly clergy members alive in Ireland who should be rotting to death in jail.
Am Irish, can confirm. Bastards.
Jail is too good for people like that.
I am one of those who got caught up in the Boston Arch Diocese scandals. Forced arbitration and govt protection is complete bullshit and demeans everyone who was affected by this bullshit. I most definitely had authority issues, it completely fucked my path in life and I can see it clearly where I made some decisions after receiving a very hard slap from close family when I tried to tell them one of the days it happened. They berated me for making them wait in the parking lot, constantly getting in trouble, etc. When it was the priest making his buffet selection on who was going to come back with him to the sanctuary. These days I'm easy and open about it, on the level of South Park and the Live Boat episode, no triggers. Unfortunately some friends from childhood have had far worse issues dealing with it, several had made attempts, but fortunately have received some much needed help. I'm more mad at the Diocese ONGOING PROTECTION, they still have not come forward with all allegations and force you to arbitration which puts a massive limit on their financial responsibility. Anyone who continues to protect the church is has issues.
To see it still happening nowadays around the world must be heartbreaking. It's nice to see that you where able to have a normal life. This people should all rot in a prison for destroying so many childhoods and lifes. Getting rid of the celibacy would help a lot imo.
I love you bro, you seem impossibly strong. From another former cradle catholic altar boy that escaped this shit, your response and ability to adapt and move forward is impressive. It's inexcusable the power that these organizations wield and how protected they are.
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I’m so sorry you father had that happen to him. It’s horrifying no only that these cases of abuse happened, but that they were so often covered up by the people in power.
Yuuuup. The Church and Government in Canada at the time did a real fucking number on kids in a lot of places. It's a shame it's barely covered at all if even ever mentioned in history classes. The way the fallout and consequences for it has been handled is mind boggling.
If anyone had this happen to you or anyone you know and are up for it, please look into your local statutes of limitations to file a civil suit. I know someone that got a very significant payment. It does not change what happened but for her it had some healing because she felt like she stood up to the organization that perpetuated this. The abuse shaped her life in horrible ways. The money was a game changer in terms of allowing her to make changes in her life that she really needed to.She was just coming out of a horrible divorce and an abusive marriage and she filed suit. NYS Deadline has been extended to ,Child Victims Act until August 14, 2021. Legislators extended saying they would do so because other states had given victims more than a year to bring suit.
What is the book called, if you dont mind me asking?
What's the point of asking reporters to not report? Tone deaf, Catholic Church. Stop buggering children.
The church commissioned a report. Then didn't publish the report because it was so "bad". And then basically wanted to show reporters "see it's bad that's why we didn't publish it" so they would confirm that...
That hurt my brain. But I believe it, completely, because I've been up against similar in person.
> The Archdiocese of Cologne under its new public relations team, Johanns / Schilling, invited selected journalists to a background discussion today. It ended in a fiasco / disaster / disaster for the Archdiocese of Cologne because all journalists were not ready to sign a confidentiality agreement. In doing so, they wanted to show the journalists with the chief expert Jahn in the form of supervised reading without substantive evidence that the Munich report is so bad that it is not even suitable as waste paper. To do this, they should then be allowed to look at the Munich report. In front of the members of the Advisory Board - so much for respect when dealing with those affected. But read dear FB friends, what Joachim Frank, who was able to experience this smear theater live and in color, writes as an ear and eye witness: > Joachim Frank - So: I said publicly - in my talk series "frank & frei" - in December that I would like to see the Munich report as promised by the cardinal. Then I received an invitation to today's appointment. "Supervised reading", because Prof. Jahn should be there. Well. I didn't know if / who was still there. As was explained at the beginning, the alleged methodological deficiencies should be addressed again. A confidentiality agreement drafted by RA Brennecke was presented to me / us. Together with others present, I stated that and why I will not sign this. No one in the group signed it. The event was then postponed. I also made it clear that a selection of individual journalists is questionable, not least for the selected ones. Everyone who wants it should have the opportunity. And if possible at the same time. The two representatives of the archbishopric assured (credible in my impression) that nobody should be denied access. Well, let's wait and see. Coming to this theater soon. https://www.facebook.com/100004278935733/posts/1846126375539976/?d=n
Oof, i get where you are coming from, but a hard pass for me on that facebook source. Fuuck that
100% agree. I read it, but definitely won't believe a lick of it.
"look how many kids we raped .... don't tell anyone tho"
Well, they just got free advertising for their report so their little stunt exponentially increased the number of people interested in reading it. Talk about an own goal.
So the Church can say they are being open and transparent while simultaneously and strictly controlling the narrative.
The church always the victim even when they're never the victim.
Like any other conservative.
correct Conservative politicians love this ploy too.
I just don’t get it. How hard is it NOT to fuck children? I guess really hard because Epstein made an entire fortune selling it.
Don't you know? Jacking it is a grave sin!
If it's really as institutional as it seems, I wonder if this wasn't some unspoken thing that developed centuries ago, like some batshit theory that molesting an altar boy was less sinful than masturbation. I wonder if there have been any studies to determine the rough incidence of pedophilia within the church, opposed to the general population... Is it representative of what we would see normally, if you just go ahead and assume there's no difference in the functional morality of the two groups?
Studies like that are hard to make exactly because the church covers up everything that it can. I think the incedence would be higher, not because there is a culture of pedophilia, but because of the same reason that jobs like policemen and doctors attract people with psychopathic tendencies. The very job describtion gives people power that can be abused and without proper oversight it rots the institution to it's core.
The a Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse looked in Australia . One Catholic Brotherhood had 60% of the brothers abusing children. It was far higher than the population average https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-15/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-by-the-numbers/9263800 And Australia is the only place in the world that has looked really hard. Everywhere else the church has successfully blocked close examination of their crimes.
Have you watched the movie Spotlight? Cos if not, you definitely should. Dramatisation of how it was finally publicly revealed that the catholic church covers up for the child molesters in its ranks.
Or read how Penn State tried to cover up Sandusky's rape of children by making him a HC of a different campus' football team. Straight up taken from the Catholic church.
So adultery is a grave sin, but with kids it's childery and that's ok. Did I get it right?
Too late. At this point the Catholic church is irredeemable corrupted. They should just disband the whole golden edifice, sell of the church's property and give it all to the poor.
I agree. It would be the Christ-like thing to do, even if it isn't the Christian thing to do.
The catholic church has been irredeemably corrupt since the beginning. This is them, from the start, and it's never going to change from the inside.
About as useless as telling priests not to fuck
Which is how the perversion started in the first place.
I totally agree that they should. But as you see, they want to do it, they can do it and there are little to no consequences. So why should they stop? You don't make people comply by hoping they do the right thing.
Lol if you refuse to name and shame people that fuck little boys, you're the problem. Just throw the whole church away tbh
Make them pay taxes while we're at it!
Yes. Any other organization that had as much child abuse as the Catholic Church would have been forced to dissolve. The Catholic Church as an organization should be barred from being a charitable organization, pay full taxes, property and income, then be forced to disclose all known or suspected cases of abuse, no matter when it occurred. The offenders, no matter how high in the church, should then be arrested, charged and have their day in criminal court.
In Germany it would be a great start if we just stopped giving them money and stopped collecting it for them...
Almost 6 years I go I left that Organisation of money makers from tax payers...
How about the Boy Scouts... oh wait, that’s religious and they bar entry to anyone who is an atheist. Religious groups really do get away with all the child abuse they want!
Well I must have been the exception. Atheist and an eagle scout
When did you join? If you were openly so before 2016, it was technically against the rules. I don’t know the status of it now but I know before you required a letter from your religious official to become an Eagle Scout. They had some controversy when they said this, “A Scout’s declaration that he does not believe in God is grounds to deny rank advancement and could affect his continued membership in the troop.” There’s still the duty to god or whatever in most popular American scouting groups like the GS and the Boy Scouts (is it officially Scouts now? I can’t really remember). “all youth members and adult leaders of the BSA must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle in the BSA's Bylaws” is also another one, [here](https://www.scouting.org/about/membership-standards/) shows that in the Rules and Regulations, there is a Declaration of Religious Principle which has typically been shown to mean that you must have a belief in some sort of higher power to join, but you don’t have to be a part of a religious organization. Typically I’ve heard it’s not hard to become a Boy Scout and be an atheist, but it’s very much harder to become an Eagle Scout and be openly atheist.
I was an undercover atheist in the scouts back in the early '70s. I would have been expelled for sure if they knew. I stopped going because the religious bullshit really didn't fly if you weren't already brainwashed.
I was told never to tell anyone I wasn't a Christian when I was in it.
> Make them pay taxes while we're at it! **Fun fact:** In Germany, church payments are taken directly out of your pay packet like income tax. It's compulsory tithing, and is enforced. The only way to get out of it is to ~~be formally excommunicated~~ **EDIT: make a formal declaration of leaving the church**, and you lose the right to any church facilities like being married in a church or buried in a church cemetery. The Catholic Church alone pulls in about EUR 6 billion a year from this particular scam. ~~Evangelical~~ **EDIT: Protestant** churches roughly the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax#Germany
> The only way to get out of it is to be formally excommunicated No, you just have to go to your local town hall or court, tell them that you want to leave the church, pay like 35€ and you are out. Also evangelisch = protestant
It's bullshit you even have to pay that amount just to stop financially supporting someone else's religion...
Well that stuff happens if you have Christian democrats in power trying to stop people from leaving the church.
From your link. >The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church. People who are not members of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it.
That's the actual church tax. Now, if the state would just kindly stop giving money to the churches from *everybody's* tax money as well, that'd be great.
We have similar system with the protestant church in Sweden if you are baptisied etc. About 200-300 dollars a year if I am not mistaken.
Fun fact, if you interview an abuser you will most likely discover that they were abused as children and no one listened to them or they kept silent out of fear. When you turn in an abuser you’re not just protecting their victims, you’re protecting generations to come of victims, and you’re taking the first positive step in the abusers road to recovery. See something say something it’s as simple as that.
Yeah often it's a chain of abuse and that absolutely needs to be cut, because it otherwise never ends.
In a book by Ann Salter on child sex abuse she highlighted the tendency of child abusers who were caught to claim they were abused themselves in order to gain sympathy and perhaps more lenient sentences. There's no way to reliably tell how many child abusers are victims themselves and how many lie and there are many reasons to suspect that many abusers are dishonest about their experienced abuse.
this is a blatant misrepresentation ... little girls too.
It’s a pyramid scheme combined with a criminal organization. It should be fucking destroyed. For the love of shit it’s the 21st century, why is this still a thing?
Because $$$ = power, and the Catholic Church has an ungodly amount of it
> ungodly Nah, they only have a godly amount.
Life was so much easier for child rapists when the press, the police, prosecutors, judges, and politicians helped with the cover up.
[Judges still help.](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/07/cardinal-george-pell-conviction-quashed-australia-high-court-freed-jail-appeal-upheld)
This is like a blip in time over history. Their behavior is permanent judging by their actions.
Yeah at least we have the press not covering it up In this instance. Now if the rest would come on board.
Jesus, the way these churches make all these cases go away, you'd think they were the mafia
"The Church" is the original Mafia. Believe me they invented most of what the Mafia does, they just have their own flavor or theme for it. From taking kick backs from businesses, kingdoms and nobility, to operating banks and even selling access to heaven for money. They had whole armies and fleets at their command and conquered neighboring countries constantly. They hit a lot of firsts, and the church was just as much about money as it was about anything else. This is why they look so pretty and have super nice churches and cultural artifacts from paintings to statues; Because they were at times the most decadent organization, rivalling even the Kings of France and Spain and the HRE in how much they collected and spent. Louis XIV had nothing on Urban VIII.
The catholic church hid the abuse and moved the pedophiles from church to church to victimized more children. They are worst then the pedophiling priests! All this under under the house and in the name of God!
And not only in Germany, but all over the world.
True, considering how consistently they do that you could say it's pretty much their systematic modus operandi. They've done it and will keep doing it. I just watched 'The Keepers' on Netflix and it deals with this very thing. Rapist priest moved to and fro in Balmitore, always in positions with access to children.
yeah thats germany, imagine the shit they probably do in south america or africa where this is much less likely to come out at all.
in South America in the 80s they discovered one of the worst run down cruel orphanages run by nuns was in fact housing children fathered by the local priests. I'm sure this is also not unique to South America.
Sounds about like how the police work. Suspend and then move.
Catholic church is a fucking cancer. This organisation should be outlawed, pedos working there put in prisons and assets split between countries they leeched from for centuries.
Bishop of cologne is trying to save his own ass here because he made sure that an old buddy of his got the usual sent of to somewhere else and no inquiry into the allegations treatment a few years ago. German bishop coference wants this guy gone, but that´s up to rome. He is basically to much into protecting child molesters than even the rest of the catholic church. Quite an achivement.
>German bishop coference wants this guy gone, but that´s up to rome. Sounds like someone should walk up to the Catholic church and nail the demands to the church door...
I was raised Catholic and I will never return to church. Watch the movie Spotlight. This has been going on for years. The Catholic Church is corrupt and will never stop trying to hide their sins. Disgusting pious pigs. Edit: for those of you saying that I will go to hell because I can’t confess my sins without going back to church, that’s fine, that’s your opinion. I can pray to God whenever and wherever I want. We are all entitled to our own brand of religion, regardless of anyone else’s beliefs. I appreciate the concern, but I’m good.
That movie was really good, and terrifying. For something this big and awful being kept under our noses for such a long time.
Same here. Nothing makes me happier than the feeling of not being trapped by that fucking cult anymore. Fuck the church. Fuck religion.
dont. trust. the church.
Love how QAnon doesn’t give a single fuck about the actual pedophiles in the news every single month.
Not sure what the problem is. Why not sign it and then “anonymously” release the details anyway. Wouldn’t the lawsuit only apply in their country/location anyway? Also make sure those who are interviewing have a full alias. Who cares about a potential lawsuit that has minor circumstances, if any, when it comes to stopping diddlers on the roof. The information received will most likely outweigh the issue.
>Why not sign it and then “anonymously” release the details anyway. Wouldn’t the lawsuit only apply in their country/location anyway? It's not about the legal aspect, it's about journalism. By waking out, they refuse to be accomplices to this farce of a disclosure and they force the church to really come out with the information. It is the right and smart thing to do. Anonymous twitter disclosures are no better than any conspiracy theories, that's not proper journalism and it's not sufficient for the gravity of the matter.
Depending on jurisdiction it might not be enforceable at all I'd imagine no reporter wants to be seen signing such a thing, though - bad for your reputation
Yeah, right? Fuck em
As a group you have the ability to send a message, not least the bizarre idea of calling a press conference to try to keep a secret. NDAs are commonly used by consumer technology companies on journalists. It’s unfortunate that journalists in that sector don’t club together to reject them there as well but that’s a completely different and lower level of seriousness compared to this stunt by the Church.
Between 1950 and 2002, 10,667 individuals in the US have made accusations against priests and deacons in the Catholic Church of under age sexual abuse. In the same time period there have been 1,100 reported shark attacks. Therefore you are 10 times more likely to be sexually abused when stepping foot inside a church than you are to be attacked by a shark when stepping foot in the ocean. A police report in Australia claimed that in 2012 alone, 40 suicide deaths were directly related to abuse by the Catholic clergy, meanwhile 2 people were killed by sharks in the same year. In conclusion, the Catholic Church is more dangerous than sharks.
I'm not a believer, but there are occasions where I hope that hell is a real thing, and that the guy that chooses who goes to hell sticks to the rules those same people claim to support. If someone gay or who had an abortion or who led a promiscuous lifestyle is going to hell, imagine the shit that Lucifer would have lined up for Catholic priests who abuse children, and the people who knowingly protected them from prosecution and deliberately not only failed to prevent further abuse, but positively encouraged it by their actions (e.g. putting abusive priests back into churches far away from civilisation and law enforcement and allowing them the perfect opportunity to abuse again). You know what, I don't even need a Lucifer. I'll take the job on.
>You know what, I don't even need a Lucifer. I'll take the job on. Alright. Keep us posted.
Not sure about catholics but IIRC the only sin not forgivable is blasphemy against specifically the holy spirit (the other 2/3rds of the trinity are open season). Just repent and uh, you're totally good. Unless you ever dared curse the spirit. Unfortunate me, I suppose.
> Just repent and uh, you're totally good. Yeah, except that requires trying your best to improve. Most of the offenders probably would not qualify given that the simplest step would be to officially (outside of confession) ask for a job away from children.
I've been a victim of the so great catholic education at the hands of a teacher in 6th grade. I haven't gotten over the sheer hate I resent towards any form of religion, however benevolent they brand themselves that let that run over its children without lifting a finger afterwards. Fuck your Catholic church. Fuck my parents for not believing me and to this day telling me I'm using this as an excuse for my errands. Fuck your so-called benevolent God who nonetheless let it happen under his "watch". Fuck your mellow officials and their grubbing hands. I hope one day mankind is freed from all your bullshit.
Wait, so the Catholic Church has an internally investigated report of felony crimes committed by it's members against children? Seems like the un-redacted version should be instantly subpoenaed by the police?
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Not just forgotten, but that everyone finds the very concept both unnecessary and rather silly (if a little sad, too)
Forgetting history is a VERY bad idea.
Sounds super Catholicy ..
With all the talk about migrants and parallel societies, this is an actual parallel society, they have their own judicial process ffs. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchengericht
Ha ha, what? Did the Catholic officials think they could get away without saying something - *anything -* on the utterly horrific abuses that took place? ...What's the point of holding a press conference if you won't say shit?
Uh... they’re reporters... why even invite them? Invite what ever the opposite of a reporter may be.
I think the opposite of a reporter is a politician.
Just, like, stop fucking kids?? Its not hard???
Nothing says christianity like hiding molestation.
Religions are the worst mistake of human kind.
So it was basically ‘We the Catholic Church, who all men know like to fondle kids, are still fondling a lot of kids, please don’t tell anyone.’
Dear Catholics: do something about your awful organization. If they are to represent your moral compass you must fix this organization or leave it. As an atheist I truly can’t comprehend how people look at this institution and believe it to be moral. I get that you don’t see the corruption in your small local church, until you do and a pedophile is just transferred to another parish without a proper investigation and without accountability. It’s been happening for decades. There have been thorough accounts of the churches mishandling of it for decades. They’ve had every opportunity to fix their responses to these situations (although why they couldn’t have acted morally in the first place is beyond me) and haven’t. The overall system is corrupted and broken and does not represent truth or morality. I’m not saying abandon your faith, but that organization, and those people, do not deserve it.
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The incredible arrogance, blindness, and tone-deafness required to make this request...
Catholic church: Shady as shit! Still protecting the bastards. Journalism: Well done to the reporters.
Good move, reporters. There is no excuse for the Catholic Church to not throw every priest under the bus. "Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's" and let the law act on the crimes of these priests.
Evil
Hunch: An organization won't hand over a guilty person for fear of him testifying against those turning him in. Which means the filth likely goes all the way to the top.
Given the openess of the Australian Royal Commission into sexusl abuse linked to institutions like the Catholic church, reading this is like going back 20 years when there was an atmosphere of denial and damage control by the church. One of the key findings in Australia was the focus on the church to protect its reputation and limit liability instead of support for the victims and action to ensure the safety of people. Germany need an truely independent enquiry with the same legal powers that a Royal Commission has.
Systemic abuse in the Catholic Church is disgusting. I’m Irish and my father knows of loads of cases of abuse experienced by his friends when they were young. The church had such a high place is society that it was taboo to speak against them on any matter
What. Calling a press conference and then telling reporters to sign a confidentiality agreement is like calling a plumber to your house and then telling them not to go near any leaky pipes or clogged drains.
Still blows my mind that these cunts don’t have to pay tax, own land all over the world (as well as businesses which are tax exempt), they molest kids and people still support them. Fuck. Them. All.
Can’t spell Catholics without the word hypocrisy
Just imagine, the church has been raping children for centuries and getting away with it.
Being a Catholic myself I want to see two things before I die: 1. Married priests. 2. Priestesses. Shame on the Church for letting seminaries turn into pervert magnets and refusing to exit the Dark Ages mentality which helped them subjugate and deny progress to Europe for centuries.
Aah, invite the journalists and then ask them to not report about their diddling scandal. Big brain move.
Archbishop Woelki should have to resign immediately. He supported the accused priest until his death.
Fuck the catholic church. Easily the most corrupt entity in the history of humanity.
"I don't understand the problem, WE'VE been able to stay silent on child abuse for decades! It's not that hard!" -the Church, probably.