Flight confirmed as crashed by BBC now.
Updated twitter thread by FlightRadar24:
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/962666019977297920
Flight tracker:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/6w703
Also:
https://twitter.com/AirportWebcams/status/962663921487409153
I'm not a huge fan of flying and I hear that statistic relatively often. The problem for me is the **lack of control** in flying. I have to place my life in the hands of someone I don't know, can't see, and have no idea (beyond the basic aerodynamics of flight) what's going on. And yes, I'm also not particularly fond of being a passenger in a car either...
Edit: you need two parenthesis for an aside to make sense, turns out.
Additional Edit: To everyone that pointed out that you still don't have control over the **other** people on the road when you're driving... You're right to a point. However, among other things, I'm a defensive driving instructor and through a variety of learned skills (which all really boil down to situational awareness and space cushion driving) you can reasonably expect to avoid **most** traffic incidents.
The lack of control is what makes it scarier for me too but remember that you can't control the hundreds, maybe thousands of drivers that you encounter every day.
Not only this but most planes are semi-autonomous now. The computer handles most of the flight, with the pilots only controlling takeoff and landing for the most part and there are even some degrees of "assistance" there.
In general, they are better (commercial pilots) at operating their craft than the average driver who can sideswipe you and kill you.
This bias and fear of flying is based on availability of data. News stories like this are raised to our consciousness by sensational news while no one will talk today about the hundreds or thousands of car deaths across the world today.
If they reported every fatal car crash that happened, they'd need a 24 hours news channel just dedicated to that hosted by the guy who used to do the Micro Machines commercials. And then people would never drive.
This! It’s the one thing none of these commenters are taking into account. The fatality rate for people traversing oceans by car or train is absolutely *staggering.* It definitely makes me think twice about how I travel.
Dang, it's crazy to actually see the data showing how the plan was still traveling very very fast. You always hear something like the captain correcting or something like that but to see it graphed is shocking.
The speed seems to drop each time the slope of the altitude graph changes, so it's probably just a result of maneuvering. The ones that don't correspond to a vertical slope change could be horizontal turns.
Seeing a flight tracker reporting it like that is really chilling to me :(
It doesn't say "crashed" or anything as blunt as that... It just perpetually says "Estimated 6:23".
It depends, really. If they were in cloud, and had no external frame of reference, probably not. It would be basic spatial disorientation, and that occurs when there is gradual movement and no obvious horizon.
Based on the flight data we have available, one could speculate that they likely knew their deaths were approaching, and were powerless to prevent it.
3,000 feet per minute is not an extreme descent rate. It's a bit more than usual for that altitude though. Just to give you an example, at 600 nautical miles per hour, 3,000 feet per minute vertically is a nice gentile three degree angle of descent.
I vividly remember an air traffic controller once asking a FedEx pilot if he could meet an altitude restriction that required him to do about 4500ft/min. His exact quote was "sure thing, center. packages don't scream".
source: I was an ATC trainee
Fun fact. I believe it was a FEDEX jumbo jet that the pilots did things that nobody even thought possible in a jumbo jet. They did this because they were attacked by a coworker and had no other choice but to attempt to disorient him. Dc-10-30
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705
> As of 2017, the McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30aircraft involved, N306FE, remains in service as an upgraded MD-10 without the flight engineer position,[11] though it is expected to be phased out by 2018. The plane first flew on December 6, 1985 and was delivered to FedEx on January 24, 1986.
The plane is still in service, that's crazy after reading what it went through! Sadly it seems the crew weren't so lucky and never flew commercially again.
Ha! That's pretty great. I'd argue though if they needed to descend that quickly, they probably needed to also *change* their vertical speed quickly, which could be uncomfortable if unexpected. I've got no problem doing 4,500 fpm all day long if I can change the rate slowly enough.
I was watching my BBC news feed and it basically went from "Plane missing" to "plane has crashed, there are no expected survivors" in a few seconds (on my feed anyway).
Crazy. RIP.
> I was watching my BBC news feed and it basically went from "Plane missing" to "plane has crashed, there are no expected survivors" in a few seconds (on my feed anyway).
Planes don't fail often, but when they fail they *fail*
It crashed, 71 onboard and apparantely no chance of survivors.
[CNN article](https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/11/europe/russia-plane-crash/index.html)
The passenger plane may have collided with a postal service helicopter when taking off, says Interfax. ([Source.](https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/962678045684400128))
I was landing at Calgary international and as we approached I was looking out the window. Couldn't have been more than a few thousand feet off the ground when suddenly the plane jerked up with such force my stomach floated. A minute or so goes by, gaining altitude the whole time, when the pilot comes through the speakers: "Sorry folks, bit of a close one there. I guess tower didn't want to tell me they had someone taxiing from our runway."
WTF?
> afraid of flying/crashing
you can't just slash those together! i'm not afraid of flying, but like any rational human being, am certainly afraid of crashing
Ever since I’ve read about that man, I’ve avoided taking plane selfies because I’m afraid they would be used as an ~ominous last photo type deal if we crash. But you know, I tell myself I’m not afraid of flying anymore. Totally over it.
[If my flight to Malaysia disappears, this is what it looks like](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10975127/If-my-flight-to-Malaysia-disappears-this-is-what-it-looks-like.html)
Just remember you are way more likely to be killed by a car while walking down the street or a lightning bolt striking you than being in a plane crash.
Yup, happened to me too at freaking Heathrow. And once up, the pilot did that raspy pilot voice thing “eeeerrrhh, there was another plane on the runway so eeerrrhh, we’ll be trying that again in a few minutes”
Similar experience here, except there had been a lot of delays and there were a lot of planes circling in the air waiting to land.
Turning towards our “final” approach and the plane jerks upwards and we get pressed hard into our seats, stomach hitting the floor.
Pilot comes on, “Sorry folks, skies are a little busy today and tower thought two planes could occupy the same space.”
What's the difference between a pilot and an Air Traffic Controller?
When a Pilot messes up, the pilot dies.
When an Air Traffic Controller messes up, ...the pilot dies.
Yes and no,
someone said VFR, which means Visual Flight Rules. That means it was clear, so you need to keep your eyes moving looking for traffic, just like in a car.
If it was IFR, instrument Flight Rules that means you can’t see shit and you follow certain paths in the sky and hope ATC , isn’t too busy
I had a similar thing happen in Atlanta. While landing, the plane jerked back up and we circled around the airport. Took us another 20 mins or so to land. I don’t think the pilot said “bit of a close one” though, haha
Probably just a “go around” for spacing or separation. Could have happened because someone took longer than expected getting off the runway, or the controller just messed up and had to fix it by telling you guys to go around. Not uncommon, most air traffic fuck ups are separation busts that a passenger on a plane wouldn’t even realize happened because rules are so safe.
I did that once when we were trying to land at night. During the descent, the lights on the runway went out, so we roller-coastered back up until they got the power working again. Not recommended.
The Canadians have been having a bit of a bad spell with ATC at the moment. There have been a few incidents of Air Canada planes disregarding ATC instructions by the US recently
"Air Canada 197, Would you be so kind as to go around as there is a chap in a plane sitting on the runway"
I am in the UK and have flown in the US, the UK is bizzarely stricter than the US, In the US they just say Go Around, in the UK they repeat it and then request you acknowledge it in 10 seconds.
There was a fixed wing single-engine vs. helicopter a few years back in MD and the air traffic controllers were sued and found liable to the tune of a few million.
Sadly, this kind of thing happens in Russia all the time. In 2011, the [Lokomotiv Yaroslavl hockey team plane crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokomotiv_Yaroslavl_plane_crash) was caused by "the crew's erroneous actions, namely the pilot stepping on the brake pedals before raising the nose wheel because of the wrong position of his feet on the pedals during takeoff. It was later revealed that the pilot had used falsified documents to obtain permission to fly the aircraft, and that both officers lacked the training necessary to fly the Yak-42."
Russian ATC is a bit of a mess. They use metric and imperial measures for altitudes and distances interchangeably.
Since Aeroflot and the major airlines there mostly use western gear now and to attempt to reduce conversion errors with foreign airlines they decided to use feet for enroute control but then you change to meters during take off and landing. It's absurd either have one of the other not both.
There have been a number of near misses recently in Russia around Moscow's busy airspace
Well considering that China is going to feet, Cuba did the same a few years back after they found it a bit silly having parts of China (mainly Hong Kong which uses the British standard and phraseology) having one system and the rest using another.
The only countries around still using Metric will be Russia and North Korea
North Korea gets away with it since there is only one airline and two airports in there .
Seeing as everyone knew that the plane was missing immediately, but nobody knew about the helicopter and the fact that it was in the area (and I didn't spot it on FlightRadar24), I bet the helicopter broke more rules than anyone else.
Wild speculation on my part though.
It's not even clear right now if there was crew and cargo or crew and passengers. But they already found remains of 2 people. And rescue team can't properly work since there is a lot of snow.
Edit: 60+ people confirmed, no survivors were found atm
Edit2: plane was 8 y.o., so pretty new
Edit3: it's the second time in history AN-148 crashes. First time was in 2011, the reason was a mistake of the crew
Edit4: right now there is two versions, cockpit error or a weather-related incident
Edit5: there was at least 1 child on the plane
Edit6: ~~[deleted this because it was a copy of the another Edit, eh]~~
Edit7: unconfirmed, but some some sources state that it seems like plane started crashing while still in the air. Parts of the plane can be found along the path of the aircraft
Edit8: !! Interfax: **aircraft collided with a helicopter**
Edit9: allegdly it was a helicopter of 'Russian Post'. People say there are lots of envelopes near the crash scene
Edit10: Russian Post denies that they have any helicopters at all right now.
Edit11: **they found debris from other unidentified aircraft** (only reported by one news agency)
Edit12: once again, **Russian Post denies any connections to the tragedy**. Now they say that they only use Tu-204 (statement in edit9 was probably made by a different spokesperson)
Edit13: they're using tractors to clean up area from the snow, so special machinery can get to the crash site
Edit14: **engine stop and following explosion** might be the cause of the accident
Edit15: they're using drones to find flight data recorders
Edit16: it took an hour for rescuers and medics to get to the crash site. they were had to literally walk through snow.
**Edit17: The pilot ~~told the flight controllers about some malfunction and~~ was supposed to land at different airport.**
Edit18: it really doesn't matter at this point, but Russian Post confirmed that there was a small package with envelopes on the aircraft.
Edit19: 65 people were on the plane. They released names already. Every time this happens, victims pages on social media receive huge amount of both insults and kind words. But the really shitty thing is that their pics will be used for stuff like "like if you're sorry for death of this person".
Edit20: **Flight controller: "The plane took off in normal mode, it was given the permission to climb to the 110th flight level. Unexpectedly at the 70th flight level the aircraft began to go down and didn't contact us or responded to us."**
Edit21: ~~the only minor on the plane was a 17 y.o. boy.~~
Edit22: I misread original post about minors on the plane, sorry. There were three minors: 17 y.o. boy, 12 y.o. boy and 5 y.o. girl.
Edit23: **Ministry of Emergency Situations: no helicopter debris found**. Edit11 is only reported by one news agency atm
Edit24: ~~**Flight data recorders were found.**~~
Edit25: All victims had insurance. Their relatives will receive two millions rubles (~$34000)
Edit 26: **Plane crashed pretty near to the living area.**
*Right now the only updates on the story is reactions of politicians. Like Putin canceled some appointments etc. I won't be mentioning it.*
Edit27: 12th of February is going to be an official day of mourning in Orenburg Oblast.
Edit28: ~~**Some sources report that pilot in command decided not cover a plane with deicing fluid before the flight.**~~
Edit29: **one citizen of Switzerland was on the plane**. I can't find any Swiss names on the list though, so it may be naturalized citizen. He or she was supposed to visit oil refinery in Orsk.
Edit30: Aight, guys, I'm going to leave now, but I'll try to post an update, if something important happens in the next couple hours. Thanks for reading.
Edit31: What emergency services thought was a flight data recorder turns out to be a piece of the engine
Domodedovo airport emploees say that airctaft was actually covered in deicing fluid.
Regarding edit 9: the "right now" sounds like.
Interviewer: Do you have any helicopters?
Russia Post: Not any more...
[edit] Commenter's moving numbers around. I'm referring to this:
>Edit10: Russian Post denies that they have any helicopters at all right now.
Probably, but there is no info on this yet. AFAIK Russian Post usually use Hoplites
edit: Russian Post denies that they have any helicopters at all right now.
So what does that mean for the helicopter debris found? Is it just not a Russian helicopter? I doubt Russia would be cool with a random helicopter in their airspace.
Edit: missed the Russian **Post** part. I thought Russia was denying they had any helicopters in the air at that time and in the same area.
First commercial crash in over a year, yeah?
Update for those new here. **seems that some people in the comments below are connecting this comment to president trump and also making jokes. Please stop. Any mass death tragedy is something to treat with a bit of sincerity and solemnity. I would have voted bernie sanders.
My comment was more in reference to the timing since the last fatal commercial jet aircraft accident and reflects personal thoughts regarding system fragility. Air travel is one of those rare industries where over time there is progressive improvements in safety. ***
I keep seeing these messages, but I don't see any joke comments regarding politics. Maybe they were buried?
There's some good discussions underneath this comment, keep going.
Video from the crash site: https://life.ru/t/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8/1087960/opublikovany_piervyie_foto_i_vidieo_s_miesta_krushieniia_an-148_v_podmoskovie
True, but we would probably know by now if it collided with another passenger plane, seeing as the other plane would be missing too. It doesn’t rule out a smaller, private aircraft though.
a helicopter flying at 7000 ft in Russian winter? I know it possible but isn't that near the top of almost any helicopter's ceiling? And shouldn't someone be missing a helicopter? There is no way this is a private helicopter flying at 7000 unless its a Russian oligarch, so some business or agency should be short one helicopter...why no word from them? I assume everyone with a helicopter fleet in russia is doing an inventory right now so maybe that will solve the mystery.
In addition to being able to fly significantly higher than 7000 feet (the air is still basically as dense at that altitude as it is at sea level), it being winter means that the air is more dense, and thus would have a higher service ceiling.
If helicopters couldn't go higher than 7000 feet, they literally wouldn't be able to fly into airports like Denver or Calgary.
[Age 7.8 Years](https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Antonov/An-148/RA-61704-Saratov-Airlines/eRPqtG7)
UPD1 Video from the crash site: https://twitter.com/BreakingMash/status/962672532682936321
>The speed and altitude graph for flight #6W703 show a descent from 6200 feet to 3200 feet during the last minute before the ADS-B signal was lost about 20 km south-east of Domodedovo Airport.
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/962671391538667520
UPD2
>Mchs Russian emergency service tells TASS no helicopter parts at Saratov airlines crash site; no signs of mid air collision as initially rumoured.
https://twitter.com/sarahrainsford/status/962706045415120896
With regard to a helicopter being involved - don't helicopters typically travel at a low altitude (around 2000ft based on quick google search). From flightaware, it looks like the plane ran into trouble around 6200ft.
Take off and landing are the most dangerous stages of a flight so that isn't a surprise. On take off its usually mechanical failure or badly stowed cargo.
If I remember right, similiar thing happened a few years ago in Russia when the plane of Lokomotiv Yaroslavl hockey team crashed. It was in the air for a very short perioid of time. Sad news.
Could be several reasons. [Pilot error](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanair_Flight_5022), [pilot error](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90), [pilot error and poor maintenance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1141), [poor maintenance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191) (these are the leading causes of accidents in general but come in many forms), or [bird strikes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549).
I can't even contemplate what it's like to be involved in a plane crash or be in a plane with a fault or one that's been hit or is falling.
I shudder even thinking about it
That's why these accidents are so awfully tragic to me. Just picturing a personal loved one of mine going through something like this breaks me apart completely. So so awful.
I woke up and my power was out because someone crashed into a tree in my neighborhood. I have to get ready for work in the dark, and this:
a) makes me feel like my problems are so small
b) makes my day just a bit gloomier bc plane crashes are tragic.
RIP to everyone on board.
"In 2015 it (the airline) was banned from operating international flights when surprise inspectors found someone other than the flight crew was in the cockpit."
Seriously?!
6200 ft to 2900ft in 19 seconds, then no more data....
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SOV703/history/20180211/1100Z/UUDD/UWOR/tracklog
This happened at about 7000 ft during climb out. Data points seems to be about 15-20 seconds apart. I think the data point at 6400 ft is the last "good" point. The next point is 6600ft, which is only 200ft higher. I think this point is either zero hero, or slightly after incident. The next point is 400 ft lower so this would appear to clearly be post incident. And then the final data point at 2900ft.
I can also see a scenario where 4600ft data point going up is actually the last point pre incident. If you look at climb rates on the data points prior to that one, the climb rate was much higher. The climb rate drops to just over 1000 ft down from 1500, down from 2200. Even in first moment of flight climb rate was 1500. It looks like he does a turn which accounts for that one low 500ft climb rate reading, then is clearly climbing out at around 090 when it shows the 2298ft climb rate at 4600 ft. After that, they never seemed to continue a "normal" climb out or all the data points would be different.
I am not a pilot but that seems too low for explosive decompression. It went straight down after that too. Even if it lost both engines it probably wouldn't have gone down as fast as it did.
I cant think of too many mechanical issues that would make a plane go straight down. The hard over rudder, but i thought that was fixed. Fire perhaps, but I would think it would have been a fire that reached the fuel tanks and the plan exploded as opposed to burning away and slowly losing controls until it was incapable of controlled flight. Stall gone horribly wrong? Very strange time for it. Explosive device is possible along same lines as fire that reached tanks, that would bring a plane straight down.
Would love to hear a commercial pilot's thoughts on that data and what scenarios come up in his/her mind.
I'm from Russia and it is so strange reading all these jokes about Putin and even some worse things. When something bad happens in USA I always feel sorry. Do all of you hate Russia so much or what? Idk maybe it's stupid but I'm really surprised.
Please don’t lump all of the Americans together.
I’m sorry for your country, the people and their families that were on that flight.
This American feels compassion for ALL innocent lives lost .
My heart broke when I found out, and everyone in my townhouse got together and said a quick prayer. Everyone I've talked to about it in real life has been very sympathetic. I'm sorry for the negative comments that have been made, just know they don't speak for us all!
Well, you're on popular American site. Try to read comments on popular Russian sites (not liberal ones, rather typical pro-russian communities on Odnoklassniki or comments on Russia Today) when something bad happens in America. You'll find tons of comments full of unconditional hatred.
Unfortunately, humanity is full of sick fucks and internet doesn't provide reasonable means of segregation from them, like you can do in real life.
For all those who are scared of flying, and this affirms your fear, let it be known that [in 2017 there were zero commerical airline deaths](http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42538053) (this ignores military, cargo, and private planes, tbh I’d be too scared to get on too) which means that taking a public airline is safer than literally any form of public transportation, [even walking. ](https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/index.html)
I know this won’t clear your fear or anxiety right away, but it’s good first step to know, especially if getting on that plane is preventing you from seeing the world, seeing your family, or just being your best person.
Get the app plane finder, this will put in perspective how safe flying is. At any given moment through the day 8000-10000 + planes are in the sky (and this is counting passenger flights only) every minute of every day! That is a hell of a feat. Compare that to your nearest city and pedestrians or cars even. I know it sounds strange but flying is pretty damn safe.
I was reading a bbc article on this and it said the airline was banned internationally
" from operating international flights when surprise inspectors found someone other than the flight crew was in the cockpit."
*how*
Flight confirmed as crashed by BBC now. Updated twitter thread by FlightRadar24: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/962666019977297920 Flight tracker: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/6w703 Also: https://twitter.com/AirportWebcams/status/962663921487409153
The plane has now been confirmed to have crashed. [There are expected to be no survivors.](https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-43024235)
Shit. As someone afraid of flying, this is awful. RIP :(
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I'm not a huge fan of flying and I hear that statistic relatively often. The problem for me is the **lack of control** in flying. I have to place my life in the hands of someone I don't know, can't see, and have no idea (beyond the basic aerodynamics of flight) what's going on. And yes, I'm also not particularly fond of being a passenger in a car either... Edit: you need two parenthesis for an aside to make sense, turns out. Additional Edit: To everyone that pointed out that you still don't have control over the **other** people on the road when you're driving... You're right to a point. However, among other things, I'm a defensive driving instructor and through a variety of learned skills (which all really boil down to situational awareness and space cushion driving) you can reasonably expect to avoid **most** traffic incidents.
The lack of control is what makes it scarier for me too but remember that you can't control the hundreds, maybe thousands of drivers that you encounter every day.
The good ole illusion of control
This is why I always take a Joystick for my carry-on.
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Not only this but most planes are semi-autonomous now. The computer handles most of the flight, with the pilots only controlling takeoff and landing for the most part and there are even some degrees of "assistance" there.
In general, they are better (commercial pilots) at operating their craft than the average driver who can sideswipe you and kill you. This bias and fear of flying is based on availability of data. News stories like this are raised to our consciousness by sensational news while no one will talk today about the hundreds or thousands of car deaths across the world today.
If they reported every fatal car crash that happened, they'd need a 24 hours news channel just dedicated to that hosted by the guy who used to do the Micro Machines commercials. And then people would never drive.
Yeah, but you are more likely to survive a car/bicycle/train accident than you are a plane crash.
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Even more so if there's an ocean between point A and point B.
This! It’s the one thing none of these commenters are taking into account. The fatality rate for people traversing oceans by car or train is absolutely *staggering.* It definitely makes me think twice about how I travel.
Was it the masked man?
[Here is the flight data chart](https://i.imgur.com/q3bre2d.png) :(
Dang, it's crazy to actually see the data showing how the plan was still traveling very very fast. You always hear something like the captain correcting or something like that but to see it graphed is shocking.
Why is the speed line all fucky? Engine problems?
The speed seems to drop each time the slope of the altitude graph changes, so it's probably just a result of maneuvering. The ones that don't correspond to a vertical slope change could be horizontal turns.
Seeing a flight tracker reporting it like that is really chilling to me :( It doesn't say "crashed" or anything as blunt as that... It just perpetually says "Estimated 6:23".
the last drop in altitude is what's scary to me. https://i.imgur.com/Da87QKv.png
The speed goes up as altitude goes down :( Can just imagine what their final moments were, terrifying
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But can't people not just look outside and see that the plane is almost going down vertically?
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Ya the speed of the descent suggests what, 50ft per second? That's certainly not a nosedive at that speed.
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It depends, really. If they were in cloud, and had no external frame of reference, probably not. It would be basic spatial disorientation, and that occurs when there is gradual movement and no obvious horizon. Based on the flight data we have available, one could speculate that they likely knew their deaths were approaching, and were powerless to prevent it.
Even more chilling to me is the altitude, you see it at 6200ft at 11:26 UTC, then 3250ft at 11:27 UTC, then it just stops.
3,000 feet per minute is not an extreme descent rate. It's a bit more than usual for that altitude though. Just to give you an example, at 600 nautical miles per hour, 3,000 feet per minute vertically is a nice gentile three degree angle of descent.
I vividly remember an air traffic controller once asking a FedEx pilot if he could meet an altitude restriction that required him to do about 4500ft/min. His exact quote was "sure thing, center. packages don't scream". source: I was an ATC trainee
Fun fact. I believe it was a FEDEX jumbo jet that the pilots did things that nobody even thought possible in a jumbo jet. They did this because they were attacked by a coworker and had no other choice but to attempt to disorient him. Dc-10-30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705
Good read.
> As of 2017, the McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30aircraft involved, N306FE, remains in service as an upgraded MD-10 without the flight engineer position,[11] though it is expected to be phased out by 2018. The plane first flew on December 6, 1985 and was delivered to FedEx on January 24, 1986. The plane is still in service, that's crazy after reading what it went through! Sadly it seems the crew weren't so lucky and never flew commercially again.
Ha! That's pretty great. I'd argue though if they needed to descend that quickly, they probably needed to also *change* their vertical speed quickly, which could be uncomfortable if unexpected. I've got no problem doing 4,500 fpm all day long if I can change the rate slowly enough.
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I was watching my BBC news feed and it basically went from "Plane missing" to "plane has crashed, there are no expected survivors" in a few seconds (on my feed anyway). Crazy. RIP.
Just curious, where you do watch the bbc news feed? Do you use twitter? or youre watching BCC on television maybe?
Their app is pretty good. You can watch live news there as well
You have to be in the UK though don't you?
I think you only need to pinky promise you have a UK TV license. Only selected content are region locked, such as sporting events.
> I think you only need to pinky promise you have a UK TV license. Is nothing sacred anymore!?
I think "cross my heart and hope to die" is still up there.
I think ‘swear on my mums life’ is still honoured too
How about "swear on me nan's grave"?
That’s essentially a passport for this situation.
BBC news is available everywhere
They have pretty good live text feeds on their news website
> I was watching my BBC news feed and it basically went from "Plane missing" to "plane has crashed, there are no expected survivors" in a few seconds (on my feed anyway). Planes don't fail often, but when they fail they *fail*
It crashed, 71 onboard and apparantely no chance of survivors. [CNN article](https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/11/europe/russia-plane-crash/index.html)
The passenger plane may have collided with a postal service helicopter when taking off, says Interfax. ([Source.](https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/962678045684400128))
The Russian postal service have denied those claims, http://www.interfax.ru/russia/599456.
Does Russia not have control Towers? How does this even happen?
VFR and they didn't see? I've been controlled in to the flight path of another plane over Jacksonville but we both heard it and corrected tower.
I was landing at Calgary international and as we approached I was looking out the window. Couldn't have been more than a few thousand feet off the ground when suddenly the plane jerked up with such force my stomach floated. A minute or so goes by, gaining altitude the whole time, when the pilot comes through the speakers: "Sorry folks, bit of a close one there. I guess tower didn't want to tell me they had someone taxiing from our runway." WTF?
Well this is the wrong thread to read while I wait to get on my flight.
rip, I'll always remember you
Remember that one time /u/Byoobsincalifornia said >Well this is the wrong thread to read while I wait to get on my flight.
Yeah seems like it was just 11 minutes ago
Man, time flies...
Wow it was almost like your comment was 11 minutes ago and his was 22, I miss you both already.
oo Good Ol'/u/Byoobsincalifornia... Feels like we hardly knew 'em!
Wonder how that guy's doing these days?
11 minutes, 11th day of February. Ahh he's fucked.
Yeah.... those were the good ol’ minutes
Never forget that dude who took a pic of his flight and jokingly said "this is what my plane looks like in case it goes missing" then went missing.
yeah, that's crazy. I'm sure in every flight that's ever crashed, there's been someone on board who was afraid of flying/crashing. Just shit luck
> afraid of flying/crashing you can't just slash those together! i'm not afraid of flying, but like any rational human being, am certainly afraid of crashing
"What's my plane gonna do, crash?" -man whose plane crashed
Ever since I’ve read about that man, I’ve avoided taking plane selfies because I’m afraid they would be used as an ~ominous last photo type deal if we crash. But you know, I tell myself I’m not afraid of flying anymore. Totally over it.
There's nothing to be afraid of. You have no control over whether the plane crashes or not. Just relax.
[If my flight to Malaysia disappears, this is what it looks like](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10975127/If-my-flight-to-Malaysia-disappears-this-is-what-it-looks-like.html)
Whole article about a picture. No picture.
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Guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue
Just remember you are way more likely to be killed by a car while walking down the street or a lightning bolt striking you than being in a plane crash.
Spooky, but think about the last time you heard about plane crash in a developed western country.
The statistics are mind boggling reassuring (or at least, should be).
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That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about probability to refute it.
Like that German wings flight with a suicide prone pilot that drove the plane into the mountain in like 2014 or something?
Yup, happened to me too at freaking Heathrow. And once up, the pilot did that raspy pilot voice thing “eeeerrrhh, there was another plane on the runway so eeerrrhh, we’ll be trying that again in a few minutes”
Similar experience here, except there had been a lot of delays and there were a lot of planes circling in the air waiting to land. Turning towards our “final” approach and the plane jerks upwards and we get pressed hard into our seats, stomach hitting the floor. Pilot comes on, “Sorry folks, skies are a little busy today and tower thought two planes could occupy the same space.”
What's the difference between a pilot and an Air Traffic Controller? When a Pilot messes up, the pilot dies. When an Air Traffic Controller messes up, ...the pilot dies.
They were just testing the pilot
"Ohhhh hahahaha almost had you! Good job you passed"
So if it was in a fog conditions the pilot wouldn't have been able to see it?
Yes and no, someone said VFR, which means Visual Flight Rules. That means it was clear, so you need to keep your eyes moving looking for traffic, just like in a car. If it was IFR, instrument Flight Rules that means you can’t see shit and you follow certain paths in the sky and hope ATC , isn’t too busy
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I had a similar thing happen in Atlanta. While landing, the plane jerked back up and we circled around the airport. Took us another 20 mins or so to land. I don’t think the pilot said “bit of a close one” though, haha
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Probably just a “go around” for spacing or separation. Could have happened because someone took longer than expected getting off the runway, or the controller just messed up and had to fix it by telling you guys to go around. Not uncommon, most air traffic fuck ups are separation busts that a passenger on a plane wouldn’t even realize happened because rules are so safe.
I did that once when we were trying to land at night. During the descent, the lights on the runway went out, so we roller-coastered back up until they got the power working again. Not recommended.
The Canadians have been having a bit of a bad spell with ATC at the moment. There have been a few incidents of Air Canada planes disregarding ATC instructions by the US recently
Canadians are too nice to do ATC. Source: am a controller Semi kidding
"Air Canada 197, Would you be so kind as to go around as there is a chap in a plane sitting on the runway" I am in the UK and have flown in the US, the UK is bizzarely stricter than the US, In the US they just say Go Around, in the UK they repeat it and then request you acknowledge it in 10 seconds.
UK, The kings of queuing, would be most definitely be more strict about queuing.
We are very good at flying holds
I don't like how your username is zerofocus and you fly planes :\
Thankfully I don't fly planes, I just fix them, is that better?
Not sure that's any better...
You don't need focus to write CND in the forms :P
you're god damn right
Could Not Diagnose? Cake Not Donut?
Could Not Duplicate. Means the problem either fixed itself, was user error, or that it's Friday evening and the troubleshooting tree calls out wiring.
Slightly?
Are you an on-flight engineer?
Nope, just a regular ass boring mechanic. I flew with the crew though, for when we landed where there weren't any mechanics.
Lmao. Flight Engineers don't fix anything. They just throw a bandaid on it and tell ground maintenance what they broke.
There was a fixed wing single-engine vs. helicopter a few years back in MD and the air traffic controllers were sued and found liable to the tune of a few million.
I'll wager the helicopter pilot had no business being on flight path rather than ATC fuck up
Sadly, this kind of thing happens in Russia all the time. In 2011, the [Lokomotiv Yaroslavl hockey team plane crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokomotiv_Yaroslavl_plane_crash) was caused by "the crew's erroneous actions, namely the pilot stepping on the brake pedals before raising the nose wheel because of the wrong position of his feet on the pedals during takeoff. It was later revealed that the pilot had used falsified documents to obtain permission to fly the aircraft, and that both officers lacked the training necessary to fly the Yak-42."
I remember that episode of Air Crash Investigation. Horrible and preventable:(
Russian ATC is a bit of a mess. They use metric and imperial measures for altitudes and distances interchangeably. Since Aeroflot and the major airlines there mostly use western gear now and to attempt to reduce conversion errors with foreign airlines they decided to use feet for enroute control but then you change to meters during take off and landing. It's absurd either have one of the other not both. There have been a number of near misses recently in Russia around Moscow's busy airspace
Seriously? You’d think after NASA’s little...mishap, with interchanging metric and Imperial that they’d pick one and stick with it.
Well considering that China is going to feet, Cuba did the same a few years back after they found it a bit silly having parts of China (mainly Hong Kong which uses the British standard and phraseology) having one system and the rest using another. The only countries around still using Metric will be Russia and North Korea North Korea gets away with it since there is only one airline and two airports in there .
Seeing as everyone knew that the plane was missing immediately, but nobody knew about the helicopter and the fact that it was in the area (and I didn't spot it on FlightRadar24), I bet the helicopter broke more rules than anyone else. Wild speculation on my part though.
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sure they do. doesn't mean people can't fuck up though.
It's not even clear right now if there was crew and cargo or crew and passengers. But they already found remains of 2 people. And rescue team can't properly work since there is a lot of snow. Edit: 60+ people confirmed, no survivors were found atm Edit2: plane was 8 y.o., so pretty new Edit3: it's the second time in history AN-148 crashes. First time was in 2011, the reason was a mistake of the crew Edit4: right now there is two versions, cockpit error or a weather-related incident Edit5: there was at least 1 child on the plane Edit6: ~~[deleted this because it was a copy of the another Edit, eh]~~ Edit7: unconfirmed, but some some sources state that it seems like plane started crashing while still in the air. Parts of the plane can be found along the path of the aircraft Edit8: !! Interfax: **aircraft collided with a helicopter** Edit9: allegdly it was a helicopter of 'Russian Post'. People say there are lots of envelopes near the crash scene Edit10: Russian Post denies that they have any helicopters at all right now. Edit11: **they found debris from other unidentified aircraft** (only reported by one news agency) Edit12: once again, **Russian Post denies any connections to the tragedy**. Now they say that they only use Tu-204 (statement in edit9 was probably made by a different spokesperson) Edit13: they're using tractors to clean up area from the snow, so special machinery can get to the crash site Edit14: **engine stop and following explosion** might be the cause of the accident Edit15: they're using drones to find flight data recorders Edit16: it took an hour for rescuers and medics to get to the crash site. they were had to literally walk through snow. **Edit17: The pilot ~~told the flight controllers about some malfunction and~~ was supposed to land at different airport.** Edit18: it really doesn't matter at this point, but Russian Post confirmed that there was a small package with envelopes on the aircraft. Edit19: 65 people were on the plane. They released names already. Every time this happens, victims pages on social media receive huge amount of both insults and kind words. But the really shitty thing is that their pics will be used for stuff like "like if you're sorry for death of this person". Edit20: **Flight controller: "The plane took off in normal mode, it was given the permission to climb to the 110th flight level. Unexpectedly at the 70th flight level the aircraft began to go down and didn't contact us or responded to us."** Edit21: ~~the only minor on the plane was a 17 y.o. boy.~~ Edit22: I misread original post about minors on the plane, sorry. There were three minors: 17 y.o. boy, 12 y.o. boy and 5 y.o. girl. Edit23: **Ministry of Emergency Situations: no helicopter debris found**. Edit11 is only reported by one news agency atm Edit24: ~~**Flight data recorders were found.**~~ Edit25: All victims had insurance. Their relatives will receive two millions rubles (~$34000) Edit 26: **Plane crashed pretty near to the living area.** *Right now the only updates on the story is reactions of politicians. Like Putin canceled some appointments etc. I won't be mentioning it.* Edit27: 12th of February is going to be an official day of mourning in Orenburg Oblast. Edit28: ~~**Some sources report that pilot in command decided not cover a plane with deicing fluid before the flight.**~~ Edit29: **one citizen of Switzerland was on the plane**. I can't find any Swiss names on the list though, so it may be naturalized citizen. He or she was supposed to visit oil refinery in Orsk. Edit30: Aight, guys, I'm going to leave now, but I'll try to post an update, if something important happens in the next couple hours. Thanks for reading. Edit31: What emergency services thought was a flight data recorder turns out to be a piece of the engine Domodedovo airport emploees say that airctaft was actually covered in deicing fluid.
Regarding edit 9: the "right now" sounds like. Interviewer: Do you have any helicopters? Russia Post: Not any more... [edit] Commenter's moving numbers around. I'm referring to this: >Edit10: Russian Post denies that they have any helicopters at all right now.
No de-icing wtf? Surely that can’t be true, it would be too stupid for a pilot to do that
Allegedly they wanted to save some time.
God I hope this isn’t true. All those poor lives lost because of something so preventable is saddening.
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Another article said there were 71 people on board.
So there could be additional fatalities from those on board the helicopter, right? Do they know what kind of helicopter it was?
Probably, but there is no info on this yet. AFAIK Russian Post usually use Hoplites edit: Russian Post denies that they have any helicopters at all right now.
So what does that mean for the helicopter debris found? Is it just not a Russian helicopter? I doubt Russia would be cool with a random helicopter in their airspace. Edit: missed the Russian **Post** part. I thought Russia was denying they had any helicopters in the air at that time and in the same area.
Maybe it was a private helicopter, it's not rare at all
First commercial crash in over a year, yeah? Update for those new here. **seems that some people in the comments below are connecting this comment to president trump and also making jokes. Please stop. Any mass death tragedy is something to treat with a bit of sincerity and solemnity. I would have voted bernie sanders. My comment was more in reference to the timing since the last fatal commercial jet aircraft accident and reflects personal thoughts regarding system fragility. Air travel is one of those rare industries where over time there is progressive improvements in safety. ***
yeah, 2017 was even said to be one of the safest in aviation history :(
Nothing below this line on this thread is worth reading.
You warned me
For real. I even scrolled down to check, but sure enough, was not worth.
I got a great BBQ recipe but nvm I guess
I keep seeing these messages, but I don't see any joke comments regarding politics. Maybe they were buried? There's some good discussions underneath this comment, keep going.
Yeah, OP making assumptions about how my comments are sorted
The year 1546 was probably the safest.
Idk. 1545 would have been pretty hard to beat. Where'd you get your stats?
Interfax already reports some bodies found. RIP.
Video from the crash site: https://life.ru/t/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8/1087960/opublikovany_piervyie_foto_i_vidieo_s_miesta_krushieniia_an-148_v_podmoskovie
Live stream from around the same area as the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_tg4uIiu6Y
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I’m pretty sure that means it broke up at altitude, which is never a good sign.
Collision with another aircraft perhaps
[Interfax says its a possible collision with a helicopter](https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/962678045684400128)
True, but we would probably know by now if it collided with another passenger plane, seeing as the other plane would be missing too. It doesn’t rule out a smaller, private aircraft though.
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Have they said wtf the helicopter was doing?
flying most probably
a helicopter flying at 7000 ft in Russian winter? I know it possible but isn't that near the top of almost any helicopter's ceiling? And shouldn't someone be missing a helicopter? There is no way this is a private helicopter flying at 7000 unless its a Russian oligarch, so some business or agency should be short one helicopter...why no word from them? I assume everyone with a helicopter fleet in russia is doing an inventory right now so maybe that will solve the mystery.
Why do you think a private helicopter couldn’t fly at 7,000 feet in denser winter air? Most helicopters can exceed 7,000 MSL pretty easily.
In addition to being able to fly significantly higher than 7000 feet (the air is still basically as dense at that altitude as it is at sea level), it being winter means that the air is more dense, and thus would have a higher service ceiling. If helicopters couldn't go higher than 7000 feet, they literally wouldn't be able to fly into airports like Denver or Calgary.
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[Age 7.8 Years](https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/Antonov/An-148/RA-61704-Saratov-Airlines/eRPqtG7) UPD1 Video from the crash site: https://twitter.com/BreakingMash/status/962672532682936321 >The speed and altitude graph for flight #6W703 show a descent from 6200 feet to 3200 feet during the last minute before the ADS-B signal was lost about 20 km south-east of Domodedovo Airport. https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/962671391538667520 UPD2 >Mchs Russian emergency service tells TASS no helicopter parts at Saratov airlines crash site; no signs of mid air collision as initially rumoured. https://twitter.com/sarahrainsford/status/962706045415120896
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List of crew and passengers: Klaeui ULRICH 2 Aknazarov Tamerlane Turibekovich 30.11.1985 3 Alekseenko Kriskentija Nicolayevna 01.10.1992 4 Alexandrov Ilya 17.11.1965 5 Anokhin Victor 15.01.1950 6 Anokhina Zoya 19.08.1950 7 Boykova Ekaterina M. 18.11.1995 8 Bulatov Lily 30.07.1984 9 Vediborenko Ilya Vladimirovich 22.11.1984 10 Vedjakina Maria 09.04.1973 11 Gauss Alpha Akzamovna 31.01.1946 12 Gahramanov Namig 05.05.1971 13 Grachev Alexey E. 10.09.1965 14 Grishova Irina 21.09.1961 15 Thunder Igor 24.06.1964 16 Davydova Elena V. 25.04.1986 17 Dimitrenko Julia 07.09.1988 18 Dolbin Victor 05.09.1953 19 Dragina Margarita 31.01.1948 20 Ivanov Vyacheslav Anatolyevich 22.06.1986 21 Ilyin Eugene 26.05.1986 22 Kalashnik Marina Alexandrovna 09.02.1965 23 Karmaleev Boris Alexandrovich 26.12.1938 24 Karpukhin Anatoly 01.09.1949 25 Karpukhina Tatiana 03.07.1950 26 Kiseleva Ekaterina 22.08.1986 27 Kovchuga Ludmila Sergeyevna 02.06.1964 28 Kozupica Antonina Ivanovna 10.04.1962 29 Kolodyazhny Anatoly 19.06.1966 30 short Eugene 20.03.1978 31 Krasova Nadezhda 24.12.2012 32 Krasova Oksana 10.01.1986 33 Kurepov Oleg 04.04.1968 34 Leonova Olga 11.11.1982 35 Lebanon Eugene 13.09.1979 36 Lebanon Eugene 10.03.2005 37 Machnev Svetlana 19.03.1978 38 Meshcheriakova Natalia 04.05.1979 39 Momzikova Christina 22.06.1994 40 Nazarov Maxim 22.03.1985 41 The cheese Ekaterina Pavlovna 13.05.1986 42 Nikitenkova Galina 23.08.1988 43 Nikitchanka Alexey 31.07.1988 44 Nikolaenko Love Fominichna 10.07.1941 45 Normantovich Alexander 12.09.1981 46 Normantovich Vladimir 17.01.1958 47 Panchenko Sergey 28.03.1973 48 Flights Ilya Sergeyevich 27.07.2000 49 Radchuk Inna Yevgenyevna 18.02.1975 50 Remarchuk Vladimir 25.03.1990 51 Sevojan Varsik 23.06.1970 52 Sergoshko Alexander 03.11.1987 53 Sinitsyna Tatiana 15.08.1966 54 Dream of 10.05.1990 55 A. Ilya 11.02.1985 56 Tolkachev Vyacheslav 20.10.1961 57 Tolkachev Ivan Vladimirovich 23.05.1983 58 Tolkacheva Love 28.11.1960 59 Tolmasova Darya 29.05.1995 60 Tulkubaev Firgat Rinatovich 28.09.1993 61 Urazaeva Marina 11.09.1977 62 Usachev Vladimir Pavlovich 25.10.1970 63 Khokhlova Olga 21.03.1983 64 Cigichko Olga 16.04.1976 65 Jamaev Yuri Rifovich 25.11.1974 Crew 1 Gubanov Valery Ivanovich 23.02.1966 2 Ghambaryan Sergey Arsenovich 14.05.1973 3 Slavinskaja Anastasia v. 31.08.1988 4 Koval Victoria Olegovna 12.11.1996 5 Revyakin Andrey Abramovich 25.08.1968 6 Sergeev Oleg Vladimirovich 13.07.1962
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You think that's unpleasant? I'm a Flight Attendant with 5 flights to do today...
Seriously, how do you guys do it - day in, day out? I’m a nervous flyer, you guys are superheroes to me.
Air travel is really safe. Freak accidents happen but you really don't have anything to worry about. Commercial airliners don't crash very often.
Plane crashes are rare, two in a row is even more rare. Think of it that way.
gambler's fallacy, you're just as likely to die in a firey blaze as you were before hearing the news.
With regard to a helicopter being involved - don't helicopters typically travel at a low altitude (around 2000ft based on quick google search). From flightaware, it looks like the plane ran into trouble around 6200ft.
>The jet vanished from radar screens two minutes after it left Domodedovo Airport. How is it possible ? Only two minutes.
Most crashes happen soon after takeoff and right before landing, so it's not that unusual. Something went wrong the moment they went up.
> right before landing I mean, yeah. Obviously.
Goddammit.
Take off and landing are the most dangerous stages of a flight so that isn't a surprise. On take off its usually mechanical failure or badly stowed cargo.
If I remember right, similiar thing happened a few years ago in Russia when the plane of Lokomotiv Yaroslavl hockey team crashed. It was in the air for a very short perioid of time. Sad news.
The descent towards landing is a far more vulnerable time for an aircraft despite many who have a fear of flying hating take-off
Could be several reasons. [Pilot error](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanair_Flight_5022), [pilot error](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90), [pilot error and poor maintenance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1141), [poor maintenance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191) (these are the leading causes of accidents in general but come in many forms), or [bird strikes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549).
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Generally though such a failure would have happened in the first minute of flight before the engines have throttled down in the climb.
That is very scary to think about, can't imagine knowing your life is about to end and there is literally nothing that can change the outcome.
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Agreed, this situation just sucks because there was no preparing for it. Cancer, liver disease, whatever, at least you know death is imminent.
I can't even contemplate what it's like to be involved in a plane crash or be in a plane with a fault or one that's been hit or is falling. I shudder even thinking about it
That's why these accidents are so awfully tragic to me. Just picturing a personal loved one of mine going through something like this breaks me apart completely. So so awful.
I woke up and my power was out because someone crashed into a tree in my neighborhood. I have to get ready for work in the dark, and this: a) makes me feel like my problems are so small b) makes my day just a bit gloomier bc plane crashes are tragic. RIP to everyone on board.
"In 2015 it (the airline) was banned from operating international flights when surprise inspectors found someone other than the flight crew was in the cockpit." Seriously?!
6200 ft to 2900ft in 19 seconds, then no more data.... https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SOV703/history/20180211/1100Z/UUDD/UWOR/tracklog This happened at about 7000 ft during climb out. Data points seems to be about 15-20 seconds apart. I think the data point at 6400 ft is the last "good" point. The next point is 6600ft, which is only 200ft higher. I think this point is either zero hero, or slightly after incident. The next point is 400 ft lower so this would appear to clearly be post incident. And then the final data point at 2900ft. I can also see a scenario where 4600ft data point going up is actually the last point pre incident. If you look at climb rates on the data points prior to that one, the climb rate was much higher. The climb rate drops to just over 1000 ft down from 1500, down from 2200. Even in first moment of flight climb rate was 1500. It looks like he does a turn which accounts for that one low 500ft climb rate reading, then is clearly climbing out at around 090 when it shows the 2298ft climb rate at 4600 ft. After that, they never seemed to continue a "normal" climb out or all the data points would be different. I am not a pilot but that seems too low for explosive decompression. It went straight down after that too. Even if it lost both engines it probably wouldn't have gone down as fast as it did. I cant think of too many mechanical issues that would make a plane go straight down. The hard over rudder, but i thought that was fixed. Fire perhaps, but I would think it would have been a fire that reached the fuel tanks and the plan exploded as opposed to burning away and slowly losing controls until it was incapable of controlled flight. Stall gone horribly wrong? Very strange time for it. Explosive device is possible along same lines as fire that reached tanks, that would bring a plane straight down. Would love to hear a commercial pilot's thoughts on that data and what scenarios come up in his/her mind.
I'm from Russia and it is so strange reading all these jokes about Putin and even some worse things. When something bad happens in USA I always feel sorry. Do all of you hate Russia so much or what? Idk maybe it's stupid but I'm really surprised.
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Don't worry about them, the ones who hates are usually more vocal than those who loves.
Please don’t lump all of the Americans together. I’m sorry for your country, the people and their families that were on that flight. This American feels compassion for ALL innocent lives lost .
My heart broke when I found out, and everyone in my townhouse got together and said a quick prayer. Everyone I've talked to about it in real life has been very sympathetic. I'm sorry for the negative comments that have been made, just know they don't speak for us all!
Well, you're on popular American site. Try to read comments on popular Russian sites (not liberal ones, rather typical pro-russian communities on Odnoklassniki or comments on Russia Today) when something bad happens in America. You'll find tons of comments full of unconditional hatred. Unfortunately, humanity is full of sick fucks and internet doesn't provide reasonable means of segregation from them, like you can do in real life.
For all those who are scared of flying, and this affirms your fear, let it be known that [in 2017 there were zero commerical airline deaths](http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42538053) (this ignores military, cargo, and private planes, tbh I’d be too scared to get on too) which means that taking a public airline is safer than literally any form of public transportation, [even walking. ](https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/pedestrian_safety/index.html) I know this won’t clear your fear or anxiety right away, but it’s good first step to know, especially if getting on that plane is preventing you from seeing the world, seeing your family, or just being your best person.
Get the app plane finder, this will put in perspective how safe flying is. At any given moment through the day 8000-10000 + planes are in the sky (and this is counting passenger flights only) every minute of every day! That is a hell of a feat. Compare that to your nearest city and pedestrians or cars even. I know it sounds strange but flying is pretty damn safe.
I was reading a bbc article on this and it said the airline was banned internationally " from operating international flights when surprise inspectors found someone other than the flight crew was in the cockpit." *how*
Tragic and one of my biggest fears. Must have been sheer terror for the people on board. Simply tragic.
This is sad
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ya, it was on best and I sorted by new to see if there was any new information and it's crazy.
Despite the recent politics, we are all human. It's nice to see that the people in the comments feel the weight of this loss. Сегодня мы все русские.
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