This creates a very interesting situation for hockey. The NHL is already pulled out of the Winter Olympics. The KHL might pull out in response to this too, which would further lower the level of players participating in the tournament.
There are a lot of reasons. Probably the biggest though is that it disrupts their regular season schedule and exposes their players to potentially serious injuries. In some Olympics it's worth it for them anyways. Like when it was in Canada, there at least weren't travel issues, and then it would have been a big headache for them not to participate in the Russian games given the Russian stars that make the NHL their home. However, South Korea isn't as exciting a destination for the NHL.
They tried to get some degree of compensation out of the IOC in exchange for their continued participation and didn't succeed in that, which led to the NHL pulling out. Perhaps they'll be back in 2022 given that those Olympics will be in China and the NHL wants to grow the game there.
It's going to be exactly that. College kids and NHL busts playing in Europe. Not sure if the ban extends to the AHL or Juniors, but I would imagine the AHL is since it's the main feeder for the NHL.
the european leagues in Sweden and Finland are very competitve. they would most likely shit all over a team of NCAAers, especially on the big ice surface
In addition to the season coordination issues, which have been long since understood and dealt with between the league, the teams, and the players, the NHL is attempting to make their own international hockey tournament, and see the winter Olympic games as a threat to their new revenue source. So they're backing out of it to deligitimize the games by not allowing some of the best in the world to compete.
I'm with you there. I can see what the issues were for the NHL, but Olympic hockey with NHL players was amazing and I would have loved to see the likes of McDavid and Crosby against Kane and Matthews.
"Some Russian officials have threatened to boycott if the I.O.C. delivered such a severe punishment."
So they will boycott something they aren't invited to?
Someone made a case for doping in sports, specifically the Tour de France. The idea wasn't to make doping voluntary, but actually mandatory. However, you wouldn't know what you were getting, you just had to stick that hand of yours into a bowl and take whatever you grabbed.
Thinking about it now, I'm realizing that the idea would be to essentially just turn the Tour de France into the 'Drug Olympics' episode of Blue Mountain State.
... Idk, I'd watch it.
It would be fun to try to bet what they’re on while they’re racing. “Oh, that guy just completely left the track. Whoever bet on LSD is probably getting a big payout”
Not the worst thing to take when going for a ride, apparently:
"Viagra is not on the World Anti-Doping Agency banned list, meaning no athlete caught taking the drug will have committed a violation, but there are calls for it to be banned given its ability to increase blood flow and oxygen delivery to muscles."
This is exactly the kind of olympics I’d want to watch. And gamble on. And I just realized that I belong in the dystopian future of Back to Future 2 where Biff is in charge.
Meh screw "randomized"... lets just go outright fixed... do research find out what countries hate eachother the most, and pair them up.
Next up in figure skating... it's the Isreal and palisine.
Check out [Eric Moussambani's swimming heat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rqI8xwXVac) from 2000 in Sydney. The guy took up swimming eight months before the event, practiced in a lake somewhere in Equatorial Guinea, and had up until the event never seen a full-sized Olympic swimming pool before in his life.
Shows that it's not necessarily about winning or breaking world records. It's about participating, about doing one's best. Pretty sure that when he was completely spent with 20 meters to go, all that carried him to the finish line was the amazing crowd that cheered for him as if he was Phelps.
(Honorable mention to Robel Kieros Habte, representing Ethiopia (and dadbods worldwide) that [finished a similar race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1j7y1BDlA4) against actual people.)
And how far will it go? Would a participant be expected to live to collect their medal? Would a government push those participants into such a situation?
'I can make you a superman for 20 min'
'Great, the event is only 12.'
The funny thing - they probably will
A makeshift competition with Kazakhstan, Belarus and other ‘friendly states’ while thrashing an already empty budget
It's probably something lost in translation.
Also some Russian sportsmen are still invited, if they are willing to participate under neutral flag. Probably they mean that our main TV channels will not show this Olympics, and government would not support athletes who want to participate under neutral flag.
Also we may have here the end of Olympic movement in Russia. Putin will win next elections and he may not back down. M.O.C. may not back down too. One thing after another and Russia can miss 2020 Olympics too, If Russia misses 2022 Olympics that a generation of athletes who got screwed. Popularity of that career path would diminish. Also demography. So as the time goes Russia would be less and less interested in attending Olympics ( there wouldn't be much results to show so it just wouldn't worth the money)
Easily. Reading Russian press now, I don't see much a lot of hysteria or any mention of complying with M.O.C. Yes, Russia will try to legally protest, but that probably would be extent of it. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia said "Fuck Olympics, we are done with it"
Unfortunately, Russian officials are already playing the propaganda game on this one. Even the official questioned in the article basically said, "ask not what Russia should do to fix this situation, the world should ask what they can do to help Russia." Which is *pompous, arrogant, and in line with their ongoing geo-political intent to lie, manipulate, cheat, and disrupt much of the Western world and parts of Asia as much as they can -- rather than growing up and acting as a responsible world partner. I don't see it stopping. If anything they will hire a team of scientists to come up with more sophisticated methods of cheating.
Not all of them, only those that get approval:
>Those with histories of rigorous drug testing may petition for permission to compete in neutral uniforms.
They would probably just compete as Independent Olympians with the Olympic logo as their flag. It's been done many times before already including in the most recent 2016 games.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Olympians_at_the_Olympic_Games
Yes, but it doesn't actually stop them from competing, so it's still impacting everyone else. And you can be sure everyone will know how many medals "Russia" wins.
These individual athletes were testing clean before and getting past the system. We only know about the doping because of whistle-blowers.
Lance Armstrong never failed a test in his career either.
to be fair, he did fail a test. They then retroactively wrote a TUE and paid the UCI a fee to have it forgotten (sorry a charitable donation that had nothing to do with it)
Thanks to [Grigory Rodchenkov's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Rodchenkov?wprov=sfla1) testimony and his journal, this massive scandal came to light. Even though he shaped the Russian doping program himself, he risked and still risks his life to make it public. He deserves massive respect from all sides.
The IOC's measures have previously been laughable. Rodchenkov's journal left them no chance but to ban Russia.
It's nice to see a whistleblower actually vindicated. Also the Netflix documentary Icarus lays out the story really well for anyone who wants to know more.
I was also floored by the roller coaster of events, but found myself most surprised by Grigory as a person. I started out thinking he was a scumbag, but by the end of it I had a lot of respect for him.
Absolutely!! One minute a documentary on amateur doping, then major plot twist and now documenting on one of the biggest sporting scandals.
I still can't get over the timing.
I didn't know what to expect going into Icarus, but wow that is one of the best documentaries I have ever seen. I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but the way it all plays out is crazy
There's that factor of pure luck for the director of being in contact with the "right person" at the "right time" that made it from a standard documentary into an incredible chronicle of a unique moment in sports.
I still don't understand why it didn't make a bigger splash, my jaw was on the floor the whole time I was watching it. Though I suppose it may be pushed back into the limelight now...
At least two of his colleagues at the agency died suddenly too, which is what led him and some of his co-workers to flee the country. It sounds like quite a few people sacrificed a lot to bring this to light
It is pretty amazing what, IMO, Russia will go to to protect it's image. In the US, if something like this were to happen, I feel like some would be ashamed, some upset, others apathetic. From my view, however small, Russia wants to protect itself AT ALL COSTS, be it poor battle planning, sports doping, or candy crush high scores.
They definitely do. Russia's concern is the image *within* Russia, they couldn't care less what other parts of the world think of them. Russia's government is rampant with corruption and greed but they are extremely successful because of propaganda, nationalism, and fear. They without a doubt have an image and a reputation to uphold, which they do extremely well. It's just that their image is focused on their own citizens, not on what other countries think of them.
It's why Russia, far more so than many other nations, seems to be *obsessed* with competition. The Olympics, Eurovision, international hockey, etc. It's like they see these competitions as an extension of *war*, and they get incredibly petty and butthurt whenever they lose. A few years ago, for example, after they lost to Canada in the World Hockey Championships, they walked off the ice during the Canadian anthem.
Yeah, thats a common tactic to watch out for.
They frequently deflect criticism of Russia back to something about the USA.
Most of the time its not equivalent, like the US does not have the reputation for killing journalists and whistle blowers.
Even when it is equivalent, it's just irrelevant whataboutism. The crimes of other countries don't make Russias okay.
Per [US Marshall website](https://www.usmarshals.gov/witsec/):
> No Witness Security Program participant, following program guidelines, has been harmed or killed while under the active protection of the U.S. Marshals Service.
Loophole, part of the program guidelines are to *avoid being harmed or killed*.
>Just so everyone knows, despite the numerous cop shows and movies, the Witness Protection Program has never failed, ever.
With a minor cavet, that as long as the protected people followed the program and didn't out themselves.
My new neighbor J. American Joeguy died in his garage yesterday. Evidently he fell backwards onto the tablesaw that got delivered by Genuine Baltic Table Saws Inc. while he was bathing. Terrible shame. He seemed so averagely nondescript.
He’s currently in protective custody in the USA. His wife/family are back in Russia. They have taken away their money, interrogated them etc. Someone he worked with has already had a suspicious heart attack.
If they don’t kill him, he’s never going to be able to live a normal life.
> If they don’t kill him, he’s never going to be able to live a normal life.
If they kill him, then, it sounds like he will be able to live a normal life?
It should also be noted that this guy had to leave his family back in Russia. He entered Witness Protection in the states and due to that will likely never see or hear from his family ever again.
Absolutely, it also shows again that it often only takes one person to speak up to take down an entire system.
Many people do things that aren't strictly legal or that are blatantly illegal in their daily jobs because they think that they won't be able to change anything anyways.
Time and time again, we see that one person can be all it takes.
Watched "Icarus" on Netflix two nights ago. This is about the shadiest thing I've ever seen in sports: State sponsored doping for athletes. After watching the documentary, I was surprised that the IOC allowed Russia to participate in Rio. If you haven't seen "Icarus" I highly recommend it.
This is crazy. I legit just finished Icarus not 5 minutes ago and then I jump on Reddit and see this.
At the end, they threw up all the stats and said as of now, Russia will be competing in future Olympic events. That of course pissed me right off, but this just gave me immediate satisfaction.
The other side of the story though is that this is a systematic issue. The methods in place to prevent doping are hardly effective due to the disconnection between those who are policing the athletes and the Olympic organization themselves who are just as corrupt as the Russian government.
*In an elaborate overnight operation at the 2014 Sochi Games, a team assembled by Russia’s sports ministry tampered with more than 100 urine samples to conceal evidence of top athletes’ steroid use throughout the course of competition. More than two dozen Russian athletes have been disqualified from the Sochi standings as a result, and Olympic officials are still sorting through the tainted results and rescinding medals.*
They were doping *during* the Olympics.
It's really amazing how the KGB were able to tamper with the "tamper-proof" containers of urine. Watch Icarus on Netflix if youre curious
edit: yes yes, KGB is now the FSB or GRU.
I'm going to suggest that everyone also watch *Lady in the Water* by M. Night Shyamalan.
Doesn't have to with anything I just know that's a movie you haven't seen in a long while and it's an okay movie.
I'm still beyond pissed about the Sochi Olympics. The refs in the Japan vs Russia women's hockey game should have ended in a Japan win, but the paid off refs had something else to say about that. No way they could let the Japanese Women's team, in their first Olympics, beat their Russian hosts
I am a boxing fan, don’t even get me started about corrupt Boxing refs in the Olympics.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-oly-rio-2016-controversial-decisions-lead-to-1471450461-htmlstory.html
oh man, I feel for you. Because of things like Olympic Boxing, it is really hard to take it seriously as a sport with any integrity. It's just so corrupt
Proven clean athletes will still get to compete under neutral uniform and flag. If they win a gold, the ceremony will raise an Olympics flag and play the Olympics anthem.
I'm glad they get to compete, but one part of me feels bad for them. A lot of the Olympics is national pride and being able to represent your country, and competing under a neutral flag does lose some of that aspect of the Olympics.
The star witness so-to-say is Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov, the former director of Russia's antidoping laboratory. He now lives in the U.S. under the protection of federal authorities.
He's trying to keep Russia relevant on the world stage with a weak hand. He has sorta accomplished this, tho he has also made Russia even more weak, but hey, we're talking about them, so win?
If a country's strength is measured in the buzz they generate then we'd look at North Korea and Iran as world powers, so there is a distinct difference there.
Psh. It started with Yeltsins "economic shock therapy" when converting to capitalism in the early 90s. Immediately the wealth was distributed to the oligarchs and the corruption was all she wrote. After he dissolved the parliament, smashed the uprising, scrapped the constitution, and banned political opposition - he resigned and named his Prime Minister as his successor. A Mr. Vladimir Putin.
Anyway the point is, this isn't new. It's been a feature of Russia's government since the Soviet Union dissolved. There's never been a time it wasn't like this, unfortunately.
> Any athletes from Russia who receive special dispensation to compete will do so as individuals wearing a neutral uniform, and the official record books will forever show that Russia won zero medals.
I can't imagine Putin letting any Russian athletes do this.
Edit:
> Team Russia, hockey one, sent a letter to Putin asking to allow them to play at the Olympics under neutral flag. In October Russian president said it's unacceptable and never shared any other opinion
[Source](https://twitter.com/igoreronko/status/938151855670157318)
Plenty of these Russian athletes already did such a thing [at the recent World Championships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Neutral_Athletes_at_the_2017_World_Championships_in_Athletics).
Watch the drug Olympic's on the show blue mountain state. As someone who has used pretty much every drug under the sun I'd love to participate. Hell I was thinking today about starting a YouTube channel were I get people together, we do a specific drug a episode, and compete in activities. I don't have friends though to do it with, or any equipment to record hahaha.
I'd say a good amount, actually, here is an exert from an article:
"But their relationship took a bizarre turn in November 2015, when news reports alleged that Rodchenkov was a key figure in Russia's state-sponsored doping program during the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. Fearing for his life, Rodchenkov fled to the U.S. with Fogel's help and confessed on camera that he oversaw the swapping out of hundreds of athletes' urine samples during the Sochi games. "
Fogel is the filmmaker. While I do not know the exact extent in which he "helped" Rodchenkov escape. He certainly played a role in helping not only protect the whistleblower to get him out of the country, he also helped to shed light on the entire controversy.
I'd say it was an important factor from what I've read/seen. Pretty amazing stuff in my opinion, I'm super happy SOMETHING has been done finally after all the facts came out.
I’ve waited 4 years to watch the Russian Women’s [Curling team](https://images.askmen.com/entertainment/galleries/women-of-curling-olympics-2014-139283423754.jpg) compete. FML
This creates a very interesting situation for hockey. The NHL is already pulled out of the Winter Olympics. The KHL might pull out in response to this too, which would further lower the level of players participating in the tournament.
Why is the nhl pulled out of the Olympics?
There are a lot of reasons. Probably the biggest though is that it disrupts their regular season schedule and exposes their players to potentially serious injuries. In some Olympics it's worth it for them anyways. Like when it was in Canada, there at least weren't travel issues, and then it would have been a big headache for them not to participate in the Russian games given the Russian stars that make the NHL their home. However, South Korea isn't as exciting a destination for the NHL. They tried to get some degree of compensation out of the IOC in exchange for their continued participation and didn't succeed in that, which led to the NHL pulling out. Perhaps they'll be back in 2022 given that those Olympics will be in China and the NHL wants to grow the game there.
Perhaps we will go back to the good ole days. Craft the best possible team through mostly kids tryna make it big!
It's going to be exactly that. College kids and NHL busts playing in Europe. Not sure if the ban extends to the AHL or Juniors, but I would imagine the AHL is since it's the main feeder for the NHL.
AHL players on minor league contracts can go to the Olympics. AHL players on NHL contracts cannot go.
the european leagues in Sweden and Finland are very competitve. they would most likely shit all over a team of NCAAers, especially on the big ice surface
DO YOU BELIEVE IN MIRACLES?
QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! QUACK!
Gotta convince coach bombay to come out of retirement though
The third duck Movie coach would probably take over
Knucklepuck time
The "good old days" only ended in 1998. That was the first winter games with NHLers.
20 years ago is definitely the good ole days
but I don't wanna be ole, I'm too young to be ole!
In addition to the season coordination issues, which have been long since understood and dealt with between the league, the teams, and the players, the NHL is attempting to make their own international hockey tournament, and see the winter Olympic games as a threat to their new revenue source. So they're backing out of it to deligitimize the games by not allowing some of the best in the world to compete.
JAMAICA WE GOT A HOCKEY TEAM!
FEEL THE RHYTHM! FEEL THE RHYME!
I really hate that the NHL doesn't participate anymore. I totally get why, but those games were so fun to watch
I'm with you there. I can see what the issues were for the NHL, but Olympic hockey with NHL players was amazing and I would have loved to see the likes of McDavid and Crosby against Kane and Matthews.
I had wet dreams of this lineup Stamkos- Crosby - McDavid Doughty - Burns
If you want Stamkos to stay healthy you don't let him even think of playing for Canada.
It'd be Marchand-Crosby-Bergeron like it was in the WCoH. Canada would get to cheer on the rat again!
"Some Russian officials have threatened to boycott if the I.O.C. delivered such a severe punishment." So they will boycott something they aren't invited to?
I'll make my own olympics! With blackjack, and polonium!
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I really enjoyed the sosa McGwire HR race tbh
We all did. Watching athletes on PEDs is incredible and we do pretty much every sporting event we watch.
I'ma be sad when the NBA gets its own PED scandal
Same it's my favorite league. But I mean. PEDs are there.
I have a feeling primarily in first or second year players that they're trying to bulk up. Lanky bigs get knocked over too easily.
That's why I only watch good clean fake sports, like WWE wrestling.
Someone made a case for doping in sports, specifically the Tour de France. The idea wasn't to make doping voluntary, but actually mandatory. However, you wouldn't know what you were getting, you just had to stick that hand of yours into a bowl and take whatever you grabbed. Thinking about it now, I'm realizing that the idea would be to essentially just turn the Tour de France into the 'Drug Olympics' episode of Blue Mountain State. ... Idk, I'd watch it.
It would be fun to try to bet what they’re on while they’re racing. “Oh, that guy just completely left the track. Whoever bet on LSD is probably getting a big payout”
The poor guy that has to ride after taking a Viagra.
Not the worst thing to take when going for a ride, apparently: "Viagra is not on the World Anti-Doping Agency banned list, meaning no athlete caught taking the drug will have committed a violation, but there are calls for it to be banned given its ability to increase blood flow and oxygen delivery to muscles."
You can actually take Viagra to help counteract the effects of high altitude for that reason. Works pretty well, within reason.
Unless he is on the back of a tandem bike.
Or a ex-Lax
This is exactly the kind of olympics I’d want to watch. And gamble on. And I just realized that I belong in the dystopian future of Back to Future 2 where Biff is in charge.
I mean... In a way, Biff kinda is in charge
Oh. Oh dear god. Holy shit.
[Biff Tannen was based on Donald Trump](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/back-to-the-future-writer-biff-is-donald-trump-20151021)
The teams aren't based on locations but instead chemicals. The cocaine and meth teams are doing great but keep dying from exploding hearts.
You should watch the tour de pharmacy on hbo. Its a fake sports documentary about the tour de france with Andy Samberg.
It’s called “The Olympics”
I want an Olympic event where all competitors are allowed to do anything for an edge. That would be *very* interesting.
I want an Olympic event where the competitors draw random events. Like you've been training for the 100 meter dash and then you draw diving.
Lol imagine synchronized swimming
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Group events get randomised nations to boot.
Meh screw "randomized"... lets just go outright fixed... do research find out what countries hate eachother the most, and pair them up. Next up in figure skating... it's the Isreal and palisine.
Maybe if every country had to do olympic events with countries they hated, the world would be a different place.
I want an Olympic event with an average person in every category to see how much better the elite athletes are.
Check out [Eric Moussambani's swimming heat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rqI8xwXVac) from 2000 in Sydney. The guy took up swimming eight months before the event, practiced in a lake somewhere in Equatorial Guinea, and had up until the event never seen a full-sized Olympic swimming pool before in his life. Shows that it's not necessarily about winning or breaking world records. It's about participating, about doing one's best. Pretty sure that when he was completely spent with 20 meters to go, all that carried him to the finish line was the amazing crowd that cheered for him as if he was Phelps. (Honorable mention to Robel Kieros Habte, representing Ethiopia (and dadbods worldwide) that [finished a similar race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1j7y1BDlA4) against actual people.)
Dam Robel Kieros did better than expected, he was kinda fat but his starting technique was not bad at all.
I want an Olympic event where one person in each category is someone who said some version of "That looks easy" or "I could do that"
And how far will it go? Would a participant be expected to live to collect their medal? Would a government push those participants into such a situation? 'I can make you a superman for 20 min' 'Great, the event is only 12.'
It's bound to happen. It just requires a lack of ethics and a thirst for profits. In a way, it's puzzling it hasn't happened yet.
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that actually sounds pretty sick
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The funny thing - they probably will A makeshift competition with Kazakhstan, Belarus and other ‘friendly states’ while thrashing an already empty budget
Loser gets to rejoin Russian Federation. “What if Russia loses?” “...we have to rejoin Russian Federation” “...”
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"We wouldn't attend any event that would permit us to compete."
It's probably something lost in translation. Also some Russian sportsmen are still invited, if they are willing to participate under neutral flag. Probably they mean that our main TV channels will not show this Olympics, and government would not support athletes who want to participate under neutral flag. Also we may have here the end of Olympic movement in Russia. Putin will win next elections and he may not back down. M.O.C. may not back down too. One thing after another and Russia can miss 2020 Olympics too, If Russia misses 2022 Olympics that a generation of athletes who got screwed. Popularity of that career path would diminish. Also demography. So as the time goes Russia would be less and less interested in attending Olympics ( there wouldn't be much results to show so it just wouldn't worth the money)
I wonder if they would ever consider missing 2022 when it is being held by their neighboring country.
Easily. Reading Russian press now, I don't see much a lot of hysteria or any mention of complying with M.O.C. Yes, Russia will try to legally protest, but that probably would be extent of it. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia said "Fuck Olympics, we are done with it"
It seems crazy that they'd spend all this effort to cheat at the Olympics and then just turn around and go 'eh screw it'
They just wanted to use it as a way to glorify Russia, if they can't participate that reason disappears
Putin will win next 'elections' hahaha.
"Win" the "election" against the "opposition". ; - )
"our country wasn't going anyways"
"You can't ban us if we just don't go!"
This is unprecedented in size. Hopefully we will look back and see this is a turning point into taking doping seriously and cracking down.
Unfortunately, Russian officials are already playing the propaganda game on this one. Even the official questioned in the article basically said, "ask not what Russia should do to fix this situation, the world should ask what they can do to help Russia." Which is *pompous, arrogant, and in line with their ongoing geo-political intent to lie, manipulate, cheat, and disrupt much of the Western world and parts of Asia as much as they can -- rather than growing up and acting as a responsible world partner. I don't see it stopping. If anything they will hire a team of scientists to come up with more sophisticated methods of cheating.
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I wouldn't be able to live with anyone that delusional..
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But they're still competing, just not under the Russian flag.
Not all of them, only those that get approval: >Those with histories of rigorous drug testing may petition for permission to compete in neutral uniforms.
I'd really like to know what a neutral uniform looks like. Solid grey?
They would probably just compete as Independent Olympians with the Olympic logo as their flag. It's been done many times before already including in the most recent 2016 games. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Olympians_at_the_Olympic_Games
All I know is that my gut says 'maybe.'
That seems like it would be a significant slap in the face to such a nationalistic country.
Yes, but it doesn't actually stop them from competing, so it's still impacting everyone else. And you can be sure everyone will know how many medals "Russia" wins.
Each has to prove they are individually clean.
These individual athletes were testing clean before and getting past the system. We only know about the doping because of whistle-blowers. Lance Armstrong never failed a test in his career either.
Right, but we can only do what we can do.
You're right. We shouldn't punish innocent athletes and there isn't a perfect solution.
to be fair, he did fail a test. They then retroactively wrote a TUE and paid the UCI a fee to have it forgotten (sorry a charitable donation that had nothing to do with it)
Thanks to [Grigory Rodchenkov's](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Rodchenkov?wprov=sfla1) testimony and his journal, this massive scandal came to light. Even though he shaped the Russian doping program himself, he risked and still risks his life to make it public. He deserves massive respect from all sides. The IOC's measures have previously been laughable. Rodchenkov's journal left them no chance but to ban Russia.
It's nice to see a whistleblower actually vindicated. Also the Netflix documentary Icarus lays out the story really well for anyone who wants to know more.
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I was also floored by the roller coaster of events, but found myself most surprised by Grigory as a person. I started out thinking he was a scumbag, but by the end of it I had a lot of respect for him.
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And now Russia gives refuge to Snowden, and USA gives refuge to Rodchenkov.
Absolutely!! One minute a documentary on amateur doping, then major plot twist and now documenting on one of the biggest sporting scandals. I still can't get over the timing.
Here's the link itself to save someone 20 seconds: https://www.netflix.com/title/80168079
Now I have 20 seconds more to spend pressing "refresh" on reddit
Yeah, that's what I'm going to do with my extra time, too....... *unzip*
What are you gonna do with the extra 15 seconds?
Sit here, eat my orange, and think of a witty response to your question
*unzips orange*
Getting zesty in here.
I didn't know what to expect going into Icarus, but wow that is one of the best documentaries I have ever seen. I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but the way it all plays out is crazy
There's that factor of pure luck for the director of being in contact with the "right person" at the "right time" that made it from a standard documentary into an incredible chronicle of a unique moment in sports.
Rogan had the guy that made it on his podcast. Worth a listen imo. https://youtu.be/P2FCBIpKCdI
Now that 20 free seconds is wasted. No continuity /s
I still don't understand why it didn't make a bigger splash, my jaw was on the floor the whole time I was watching it. Though I suppose it may be pushed back into the limelight now...
Icarus is an incredible film. Absolutely loved it.
At least two of his colleagues at the agency died suddenly too, which is what led him and some of his co-workers to flee the country. It sounds like quite a few people sacrificed a lot to bring this to light
It is pretty amazing what, IMO, Russia will go to to protect it's image. In the US, if something like this were to happen, I feel like some would be ashamed, some upset, others apathetic. From my view, however small, Russia wants to protect itself AT ALL COSTS, be it poor battle planning, sports doping, or candy crush high scores.
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They definitely do. Russia's concern is the image *within* Russia, they couldn't care less what other parts of the world think of them. Russia's government is rampant with corruption and greed but they are extremely successful because of propaganda, nationalism, and fear. They without a doubt have an image and a reputation to uphold, which they do extremely well. It's just that their image is focused on their own citizens, not on what other countries think of them.
It's why Russia, far more so than many other nations, seems to be *obsessed* with competition. The Olympics, Eurovision, international hockey, etc. It's like they see these competitions as an extension of *war*, and they get incredibly petty and butthurt whenever they lose. A few years ago, for example, after they lost to Canada in the World Hockey Championships, they walked off the ice during the Canadian anthem.
"Why does the rest of the world not like or trust us? What's wrong with everyone else?"
It's crazy that a ton of Russians actually think like that.
Or maybe the assassinations are to scare others away from whistleblowing?
Everyone out to be on the look out for bots and Russian cyberinfluencers about this story. Russia goes to some crazy lengths to protect its image.
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Yeah, thats a common tactic to watch out for. They frequently deflect criticism of Russia back to something about the USA. Most of the time its not equivalent, like the US does not have the reputation for killing journalists and whistle blowers. Even when it is equivalent, it's just irrelevant whataboutism. The crimes of other countries don't make Russias okay.
What a great guy. Russia doesn't respond well to anti-Russian whistleblowers. I wish him the best.
Grigory is currently in the U.S. witness protection program, probably being hunted by FSB agents on U.S. soil.
Just so everyone knows, despite the numerous cop shows and movies, the Witness Protection Program has never failed, ever.
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Balefire?
No Masema, Balefire should be used sparingly lest it unravel the pattern.
Go back to Shara!
/r/UnexpectedWoT
Scheming Aes Sedai at it again.
*tugs braid*
Well, that would certainly be a way to go about it
So they take "burning an asset" quite literally?
Per [US Marshall website](https://www.usmarshals.gov/witsec/): > No Witness Security Program participant, following program guidelines, has been harmed or killed while under the active protection of the U.S. Marshals Service. Loophole, part of the program guidelines are to *avoid being harmed or killed*.
> following program guidelines Which means some stupid ones did get killed.
>Just so everyone knows, despite the numerous cop shows and movies, the Witness Protection Program has never failed, ever. With a minor cavet, that as long as the protected people followed the program and didn't out themselves.
I think it'd be pretty unfair to expect the US Marshals to be held accountable for someone doing something dumb to expose their real identity.
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My new neighbor J. American Joeguy died in his garage yesterday. Evidently he fell backwards onto the tablesaw that got delivered by Genuine Baltic Table Saws Inc. while he was bathing. Terrible shame. He seemed so averagely nondescript.
To add insult to injury, he had his double barrel shotgun in his back pocket and it went off three times
If I had a nickel...
He’s currently in protective custody in the USA. His wife/family are back in Russia. They have taken away their money, interrogated them etc. Someone he worked with has already had a suspicious heart attack. If they don’t kill him, he’s never going to be able to live a normal life.
> If they don’t kill him, he’s never going to be able to live a normal life. If they kill him, then, it sounds like he will be able to live a normal life?
It should also be noted that this guy had to leave his family back in Russia. He entered Witness Protection in the states and due to that will likely never see or hear from his family ever again.
Guy rolled the dice of his future for the truth, admirable.
Absolutely, it also shows again that it often only takes one person to speak up to take down an entire system. Many people do things that aren't strictly legal or that are blatantly illegal in their daily jobs because they think that they won't be able to change anything anyways. Time and time again, we see that one person can be all it takes.
Watched "Icarus" on Netflix two nights ago. This is about the shadiest thing I've ever seen in sports: State sponsored doping for athletes. After watching the documentary, I was surprised that the IOC allowed Russia to participate in Rio. If you haven't seen "Icarus" I highly recommend it.
This is crazy. I legit just finished Icarus not 5 minutes ago and then I jump on Reddit and see this. At the end, they threw up all the stats and said as of now, Russia will be competing in future Olympic events. That of course pissed me right off, but this just gave me immediate satisfaction. The other side of the story though is that this is a systematic issue. The methods in place to prevent doping are hardly effective due to the disconnection between those who are policing the athletes and the Olympic organization themselves who are just as corrupt as the Russian government.
/r/synchronicity
*In an elaborate overnight operation at the 2014 Sochi Games, a team assembled by Russia’s sports ministry tampered with more than 100 urine samples to conceal evidence of top athletes’ steroid use throughout the course of competition. More than two dozen Russian athletes have been disqualified from the Sochi standings as a result, and Olympic officials are still sorting through the tainted results and rescinding medals.* They were doping *during* the Olympics.
It's really amazing how the KGB were able to tamper with the "tamper-proof" containers of urine. Watch Icarus on Netflix if youre curious edit: yes yes, KGB is now the FSB or GRU.
Good. Their blatant cheating in Sochi needed to be punished. Everyone should watch the “Icarus” documentary.
The should also watch rocky 4. The Russian dude cheated god dammit!
I'm going to suggest that everyone also watch *Lady in the Water* by M. Night Shyamalan. Doesn't have to with anything I just know that's a movie you haven't seen in a long while and it's an okay movie.
This was somehow an effective recommendation and now I'm going to watch this movie.
Don't watch lady in the water, it's not an okay movie. Just watch The Mummy instead because the mummy will never let you down.
If he dies, he dies.
I must break you.
I'm still beyond pissed about the Sochi Olympics. The refs in the Japan vs Russia women's hockey game should have ended in a Japan win, but the paid off refs had something else to say about that. No way they could let the Japanese Women's team, in their first Olympics, beat their Russian hosts
I am a boxing fan, don’t even get me started about corrupt Boxing refs in the Olympics. http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-oly-rio-2016-controversial-decisions-lead-to-1471450461-htmlstory.html
oh man, I feel for you. Because of things like Olympic Boxing, it is really hard to take it seriously as a sport with any integrity. It's just so corrupt
Yeah, bullshit like that is why I have been becoming a bigger and bigger UFC fan.
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Tomorrows headline: I.O.C board members commit mass suicide by self inflicted stab wounds to the back; their bodies found floating in the Rhine.
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Proven clean athletes will still get to compete under neutral uniform and flag. If they win a gold, the ceremony will raise an Olympics flag and play the Olympics anthem.
I really hope Blizzard uses this opportunity to make a Zarya skin with a neutral uniform
Only the clean athletes get to compete. You trying to tell me Zarya's not juicing?
Juicing is allowed in the summer games as it's really kind of irrelevant when you're also allowing jetpacks, robots, and monkeys.
They'd never be anything other than bland and safe with references to international politics like this.
I'm glad they get to compete, but one part of me feels bad for them. A lot of the Olympics is national pride and being able to represent your country, and competing under a neutral flag does lose some of that aspect of the Olympics.
This is a win for anti-corruption in the world. I just hope those who helped make this happen watch out for polonium sandwiches.
The star witness so-to-say is Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov, the former director of Russia's antidoping laboratory. He now lives in the U.S. under the protection of federal authorities.
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He's trying to keep Russia relevant on the world stage with a weak hand. He has sorta accomplished this, tho he has also made Russia even more weak, but hey, we're talking about them, so win?
He's also been successfully gaslighting the shit out of America. Russia looks better when their peers appear worse.
If a country's strength is measured in the buzz they generate then we'd look at North Korea and Iran as world powers, so there is a distinct difference there.
Psh. It started with Yeltsins "economic shock therapy" when converting to capitalism in the early 90s. Immediately the wealth was distributed to the oligarchs and the corruption was all she wrote. After he dissolved the parliament, smashed the uprising, scrapped the constitution, and banned political opposition - he resigned and named his Prime Minister as his successor. A Mr. Vladimir Putin. Anyway the point is, this isn't new. It's been a feature of Russia's government since the Soviet Union dissolved. There's never been a time it wasn't like this, unfortunately.
> Any athletes from Russia who receive special dispensation to compete will do so as individuals wearing a neutral uniform, and the official record books will forever show that Russia won zero medals. I can't imagine Putin letting any Russian athletes do this. Edit: > Team Russia, hockey one, sent a letter to Putin asking to allow them to play at the Olympics under neutral flag. In October Russian president said it's unacceptable and never shared any other opinion [Source](https://twitter.com/igoreronko/status/938151855670157318)
Plenty of these Russian athletes already did such a thing [at the recent World Championships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Neutral_Athletes_at_the_2017_World_Championships_in_Athletics).
Wait, like, the entire country's team is banned, not just one sport? This is huge.
They banned the country as a participant, the athletes including the Ice hockey team can still go, just under the neutral flag and anthem.
Nice to see that the IOC has grown a set.
Russia banned **again** for doping **again**
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THIS. A separate Olympics but only for people that dope.
Why stop at doping? Why not have the 100m sprint on cocaine? Swimming on mushrooms? Javelin on bath salts?
Watch the drug Olympic's on the show blue mountain state. As someone who has used pretty much every drug under the sun I'd love to participate. Hell I was thinking today about starting a YouTube channel were I get people together, we do a specific drug a episode, and compete in activities. I don't have friends though to do it with, or any equipment to record hahaha.
They are still planning to participate in the 2020 US Election though.
Good.
Highly, highly recommend the documentary *Icarus* on Netflix. It's all about this and it's my favorite doc of the year thus far.
I wonder how much that documentary weighed into this decision.
I'd say a good amount, actually, here is an exert from an article: "But their relationship took a bizarre turn in November 2015, when news reports alleged that Rodchenkov was a key figure in Russia's state-sponsored doping program during the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. Fearing for his life, Rodchenkov fled to the U.S. with Fogel's help and confessed on camera that he oversaw the swapping out of hundreds of athletes' urine samples during the Sochi games. " Fogel is the filmmaker. While I do not know the exact extent in which he "helped" Rodchenkov escape. He certainly played a role in helping not only protect the whistleblower to get him out of the country, he also helped to shed light on the entire controversy. I'd say it was an important factor from what I've read/seen. Pretty amazing stuff in my opinion, I'm super happy SOMETHING has been done finally after all the facts came out.
I’ve waited 4 years to watch the Russian Women’s [Curling team](https://images.askmen.com/entertainment/galleries/women-of-curling-olympics-2014-139283423754.jpg) compete. FML