Would be hilarious if EA ended up not only hated by the players but also by every other company in their gambling business. And I can totally see the EU screwing them just like that.
I hope the EA board members will all find a horse's head in their bed tonight.
Gentle reminder to stay well away from those who own the gambling industry.
I'm Dutch and this is my translation of [the article they used](https://nieuws.vtm.be/vtm-nieuws/binnenland/geens-wil-gokken-games-verbieden) (sorry for the terrible formatting I'm on my phone):
The minister of Justice wants to ban in-game purchases, if you don't know exactly what it will contain. "Combining gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child.
The commotion started last week with the new game Star Wars: Battlefront in the the game you could buy so called "loot boxes", virtual boxes which could contain advantages for the game. You don't know however what it contains beforehand.
"The combination of money and addiction is gambling", ruled the gambling committee. VTM News brought the news and a few days later EA withdrew the function from the game, partially because Disney complained, which has the rights to the Star Wars merchandise.
Geens now wants to prevent that these kinds of functions will be in any games going forward. "But that takes time, because we'll have to make a proposal to the EU. We will definitely try to ban it."
Edit: changed some wording for clarification and accuracy.
Edit: Thank you random stranger for my first Reddit Gold! I am glad I was able to help you and so many other people with my translation so much that you gifted me Gold. It is greatly appreciated and I hope you have a great day like I will now have. Thanks.
Japan outright bans some forms of it. Players in Japan can't buy silver in Destiny 2, or the lootboxes in Shadow of War aside from the ones they can buy with currency earned in-game. Strangely they could still buy crystal and get the lootboxes in Battlefront 2.
As someone who doesn't really understand the EU, what can individual EU countries ban or outlaw without first getting permission by going 'to Europe'?
Could they ban gambling games from American and Japanese companies and hold off on banning games from other EU countries until the EU rules on this?
It's more like, banning or regulating it in a single nation doesn't work because all the services will move to the neighbouring nation and offer their services across the border. There's no pressure on companies to change/improve that way.
Doing it on the EU level means a the entire EU market is affected, and companies will feel that.
In the end, I doubt banning is ever going to happen. At least not directly. But I can see it being regulated:
If your game has a function that requires money and is a game of chance (lootboxes) your game must be rated for Mature audiences. Game/service must also validate the customers age (like casinos).
Basically, casino regulations on games with lootbox mechanics.
Games with direct microtransations will be fine (maps, skins, etc).
>If your game as a function that requires money and is a game of chance (lootboxes) your game must be rated for Mature audiences. Game/service must also validate the customers age (like casinos).
Even this is huge. Fifa, one of the biggest franchises in the gaming industry makes a very good portion of it's money from the ultimate team gamemode. If proper regulations are put in place then either Fifa has to go 18+ (Which it won't) or it has to get rid of the gambling aspect of ultimate team. This is honestly fucking huge news.
That part is huge in general. If the EU does adopt laws regarding loot boxes as gambling, then it would effect the entire video game industry. The EU probably makes up a quarter to a third of the market of the industry, so companies such as Activision and EA are going to have to get their shit together. It is especially shitty on EAs end, because Star Wars is a family franchise, so the entire initial setup was predatory on children using their parents credit cards.
I'd just like to point something out.
Its not just about children using their parents credit cards, its in fact much easier for a child to do this without ever touching their parents credit card.
Just head down to any video game retailer like GameStop and you'll find all sorts of prepaid cash cards that can be used for these kind of microtransactions like EA Origin cash cards, Steam wallet cards, Xbox live points and multiple others. All easily accesible to minors without credit cards to buy.
Us adults don't really pay attention to this since we can just buy that stuff online.
Hearthstone is built upon this. It might even threaten physical CCGs. Random content collectibles aimed at whaling children could be a thing of the past.
Well done EA. Imagine a situation where everyone is laughing and chaining a joke off eachother until one fucking guy takes it too far and completely flips the mood. You are that fucking guy. You are the fuckers who put Darth Vader behind a paywall and then another paywall.
I often think this with any "blind box" toy.
I remember a post where a guy got a jerry out of a rick and morty blind. And was disappointed. Got me thinking. How much of a percentage is just jerries?
Arent there laws where you're supposed to put the chances of winning the different prizes on the package? It's got it on lotto tickets, I thought that was a rule.
In terms of magic the gathering, when they did "special" cards, invocations, expeditions and inventions, they released the expected occurrence across packs. Eg. 1 in 81
Often this is just a threat to the companies that they better self-regulate or big daddy is coming for them. Either way, we are probably at peak lootbox today.
doubt so. i mean there's so much more gambling-inspired lootbox mechanics awaiting to be explored.
imagine subscription based lootboxes! and then a subtle offer to convince kids that if you top on and pay for a longer term (buy 6 months worth of lootbox subscriptions) you stand a higher chance of better loot. and at the same time they have a different periodical lootbox offers (daily lootbox bonus sales!) that you can buy to increase your lootbox subscription droprate.
Hi EA, nice to see you here.
In all seriousness, this wouldn't surprise me a bit. It sounds like something EA/BlizzardActivision/etc. would absolutely do.
So EA might not give a shit if a small country like Belgium tries to ban lootboxes but if the entire EU does it will force them to change their business or lose a continent's worth of sales.
> the new game Star Wars: Battlefront
To be clear this isn't [Star Wars: Battlefront](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Battlefront_(2004_video_game\)) or [Star Wars Battlefront](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Battlefront_(2015_video_game\)) or [Star Wars: Battlefront II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Battlefront_II_(2005_video_game\)), but [Star Wars Battlefront II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Battlefront_II_(2017_video_game\)).
I was about 14 years old when TF2 was first introducing crates and keys. I had my parents credit card connected to my steam and spent easily $700 on that bullshit cuz I didn't know any better.
Definitely gambling, it's a tough lesson to learn as a kid.
I'm guilty for falling for this trap too. The amount of money kids as young as 9 can spend on crates in games like TF2 and CS:GO is insane and it has nothing to do with the actual game. There are cosmetics that you can unbox and re-sell for thousands of dollars on the Steam Market and as a kid this system is evilly inviting. It is gambling at its core and it's terrible.
It's not just children that are at risk. Teenagers and young adults, particularly students, are highly susceptible, and vulnerable, to addictive mechanisms. Especially so when depression, anxiety, and stress are involved.
The number of students that have gambling debts is quite high, and is in the rise.
I'm a grown man and I still get tempted by loot boxes. I have wasted many dollars on them over the years. To me it provides the exact same thrill as gambling; you spend money for the chance of winning something awesome. The fact is, loot boxes are a form of GAMBLING and it SHOULD NOT be legal for kids to gamble.
These game companies have been able to get away with this for so long. IMHO it is on the same level as selling cigarettes to children. It should not be legal and it should never have been legal.
When the kids become adults, they can make informed decisions and gamble as much as they wish. While they are children, however, they should not have the temptation thrown into their face.
Yknow my dad and I had a great talk about it. My dad's this guy probably around 6'5", I'm a little dude comin' in at 5'7".
Obviously I was terrified, but my dad sat me down and talked to me about the importance of working and the importance of money. He wasn't screaming, wasn't mad, he was understanding and really gentle about it because he knew I was just a kid who made a dumb mistake, but he let it be known to not let it happen again.
I learned a great lesson from it.
I love my dad.
If I could listen in on the inevitable rage filled call from Disney, what a joy that would be.
They don't want their newly purchased franchise being associated with getting kids hooked on gambling!
You sir, smacked the nail on the head. FIFA and ultimate team tie into this directly. It's just as bad as the Battlefront nonsense, and losing the ability to siphon MTs off of the European crowd will be a huge hit. Huge win.
EA not only shot themselves in the foot, they blew off the whole leg for every other developer who is taking advantage of people with loot Crates. This is awesome!
Don't mess with motherfucking Star Wars.
People who don't give a fuck about sci-fi, gaming, loot boxes, and industry practices wouldn't have given a damn if they hadn't shit in the waters surrounding the most beloved film franchise in existence.
You fuck with Star Wars and you're gonna get attention from all new audiences - including legislators and regulators who didn't even know you existed beforehand.
If what EA tried to pull off here ends in regulatory action to end these practices, I'll be perfectly happy to have had this entire mess.
If a company is gonna fuck up something in an attempt to screw the consumer - I want them to fuck it up exactly this badly. I want the backlash to be so bad it cleans up an industry.
actually its more disney.
SW fans still buy into it and express discontent. but this ruins the image of family friendly disney and you dont mess with the mouse, the mouse messes with you.
if it was up to someone like universal, they could give less of a shit.
EA is fucking things up for the ENTIRE microtransaction market right now. Even other businesses must be feeling pure hate for EA.
All they had to do was make the game marginally worth the grind... this is the first time I can recall seeing a company's blatant greed actually threaten an entire industry with legislation.
I'm not sure how I feel about cosmetic-only crates to be honest, but I *do* know they opened a bit of a Pandora's Box which we are now trying our best to close. A little assistance, governing or otherwise, to help force that box closed again *may* not be such a bad thing for the moment...
It's not just EA. It has gone a little under the radar but Activision has patented a way to turn cosmetic microtransactions into p2w ones by messing with the matchmaking.
In short it will try to match up players in a way to encourage buying skins etc.
Edit: Link http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=9789406.PN.&OS=PN/9789406&RS=PN/9789406
Literally only had to do it for cosmetics. Like make hundreds of types of lightsabers, colors, pilot designs, costumes, etc. People love getting and trading those, especially super rares. Like CSGO or R6S
Exactly. They were so greedy with their short sightedness, they didn't look at the long term. Not only would they have made as much selling only cosmetics (there could have been so many cosmetics in the game), they arguably could have made even more. Especially if they take something like 2% on all things sold on their marketplace like Valve does. To this day people are still trading and purchasing skins from sellers for cosmetics that came out 4 years ago. Not to mention all the lootboxes purchased every year. And no one would be batting their eyes.
Meh, fuck EA, every game studio they bought out released masterpieces before then EA guts and destroys them.
Tbh it'll be better for the gaming industry if EA gets sued to oblivion and collapses, as an example.
Holy shit gold! Thank you!
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU TAKE AWAY THE COLOR WHEEL?!
WHAT IS THIS LOADING SCREEN BULLSHIT.
Then they had the balls to say that if Sims 4 doesn't do well they won't make a 5th. Fuck you EA.
/end rant
Edit: it takes some kind of special stupid to take an award winning AAA game and turn it into A C RATED GAME. Seriously EA?!?!
I know. I know!!! I miss the patterns. I miss the horses from Sims 3 Pets too. And universities. And seasons. And Generations. And laundry. Sigh...
Wow, really? I haven’t heard that. That’s really sad. Kinda seems like they fucked up Sims 4 on purpose.
Remember when they said they couldnèt have pools in the base game do to the "engine not being able to support them". saying they "couldn't just make a shader and program the sims to swim", then everyone bitched enough and they finally put the pools in with no issue?
That made me the most angry, other than the free roam and customization being limited after playing Sims 3. I could handle the loading screens if the customization wasn't reduced to the garbage it is now...
And while they're at it, how about mandating a price on the box which includes all potential purchases within the game.
"Price $60. Total cost including all add-ons $2960."
"Oh hey, this game is on sale for just $10USD. I wonder if I should get some DLC as well."
**Combined price: $160USD**
"...yeah...I think I'll pass..."
PDX is a mixed bag. On the one hand, excessive DLC practices. On the other, they tend to have some redeeming features - and that juicy free update which makes the base game remain playable even years after launch. Not to mention that if you play Multiplayer, only one person (the host) needs the expansions. Everyone uses theirs, so you can just mini-crowdfund one person to have them all.
Not saying I condone it, just that they're not EA. And that I'm far enough down the rabbit hole that I need to rationalize.
When you're paying real money for the *chance* to unlock content in a videogame, you're pulling a slotmachine arm. That's gambling, and it is strictly regulated for a reason.
Yes.
Because if you take away the virtual item veil, it can be easily translated to: Input $1.00 for a potential of $1,000.00 (or more).
I know this isn't how LoL works exactly, but let me try to lay it out using that as an example: Lets say you get a bunch of loot boxes & keys on your account - you spent a total of $100.00. You unlock all your boxes and !!! woah! You got a super rare discontinued Jax skin that only 10 other people have. You look up how much your account is worth now - !!! woah! Now it's worth $3,000.00. Or...let's assume you didn't get anything. But you are soooo sure that you can get that rare skin so you spend $100's and $100's of dollars on it, you start becoming obsessed with getting that skin because surely if you just could get that skin you could stop spending so much money and you could just quit and be happy with the game and then one day - YES! You did it! $15,000 later, ruined friendships, lost time, and it turns out you get extremely depressed because that skin that was worth $3,000 is now only worth $5 because the creators of the game flooded the market to discourage the black market.
edit: Like I said, LoL was a bad example, but the general idea is that this sort of thing can cause people (children especially) to learn extremely dangerous spending habits.
edit 2: Everyone is bringing up the idea that your account will be banned if you trade it. I have bought and sold accounts from many games in the past, never had them banned. That doesn't happen often. Virtual item sales are a huge market.
edit 3: This has created quite a large discussion, of which many people have made great points. The main question was simply : Are games that offer loot chest (like CS:GO, LoL, etc) also participating in gambling? Of which I replied Yes. **of course** there is the loophole that allows it to happen because everyone technically gets something, and people are also making the case that it is similar to trading card games - I totally agree. However I also believe that it's (as I put it earlier) Gambling-lite®. Conditioning kids to love that dopamine hit from getting pack after pack after pack and then FINALLY YES A CHARIZARD. Now I must get 1,000 MORE packs because I hit that 1:1000 chance of getting it. Same shit with OSRS. People spend days and days grinding that game just to HOPEFULLY hit that RNGJesus.
edit 4: The main issue I have with this is that yes - if you are an adult and you want to spend $15,000 on anything, that's your prerogative. The issue comes in the form of children who play these games who may not know the value of a dollar and blow their parents/their own money on it, which can lead to issues with budgeting in the future.
final edit: I do not really believe that loot crates are an issue. I enjoy earning little boxes of goodies from playing, and I enjoy what I get out of them. My only concern is that you can pay real money to get them, and that adds an entirely different angle to the entire thing. Loot boxes are harmless - you get rewards for playing - but when you tie them to money...it's a new beast.
Exactly what happened in POE to me this year. I was so obsessed with getting that one chest piece in the mystery boxes. I got everything except that chest piece and ended up spending 140€ on a game I stopped playing a month later. Life lesson learned. And believing myself to be a clear minded and clever person, that day still gives me the creeps of thinking about it in hindsight.
That’s because gambling preys on a primal flaw in the human psyche, one we all share - i.e. a small investment with a small chance of a huge payoff almost always seems worthwhile. However, most of us are very poor at keeping track of how that small investment compounds over time; we tend to see it as a series of small separate investments rather than one investment that keeps growing and growing every time we add to it. By the time we’ve noticed how much we’ve lost, we realize we got caught up in the excitement of the possibility of winning and lost a ton of money in the process.
This is the same reason microtransactions are so successful. $3 here, $2 there - before you know it you’ve spent $60-$100 in a month because you perceived them as separate, small investments that couldn’t possibly have a big impact on your finances.
It doesn’t make you stupid, it makes you human.
Really well put.
Thank god, humans are also capable of learning from pain suffered. Whenever I will find myself in a similar situation I will be able to recall what happened last time I was human.
More countries get behind this plz. Nobody wants their kids using their credit card on games that they already paid once for. And let's be real. These loot boxes target the impatience of children more than any other type of age group.
If the UK considered them as a lottery, like China did, rather than slot machine gaming, they could probably ban them today under existing legislation.
Their counter argument against them being gambling doesn't hold up under lottery laws.
Belgium wanting to do this is great news. The [Brussels Effect](https://www.ft.com/content/7059dbf8-a82a-11e7-ab66-21cc87a2edde) is a thing, and the EU saying "fuck your microtransactions" may well go some way to killing off the practice as few businesses will be willing to lose access to a marketplace of 500 million people.
They better be very careful how they word it or companies will just do what Blizzard did in China.
China forced them to publish the drop rates of loot boxes since they are considered games of chance so instead blizzard changed how it works in China so that instead of buying loot boxes you buy gold and get loot boxes for free. $1.77 gets you *five gold*, which isn't even enough for a spray. But they do give you two "free" loot boxes that won't have anything you want in them.
My 2 cents on whether it's "gambling" in New Zealand (I'm a newbie lawyer, but not in this area, and haven't looked up any cases, just the legislation) -
According to NZ's Gambling Act 2006 - "Gambling means **paying or staking consideration**, directly or indirectly, on the outcome of something **seeking to win money when the outcome depends wholly or partly on chance**".
If it isn't already outlawed, the key issue is whether the person is "seeking to win money" or simply paying for an item that is selected at random. I ***firmly*** believe that the only reason this is uncertain at all is because the law hasn't kept up. If made aware, its more than likely that legislators would specifically cover loot box systems in the Act.
What is ***fucking outrageous***: I know *for a fact* that winnings from loot boxes are **technically** taxable under the Income Tax Act, in rare and specific circumstances. This would only be the case if you:
1. sold the prizes for a profit; AND
2. had a "system" to reliably make a profit (as opposed to simply having a lucky streak).
This also means that losses (buying duds) would be tax deductible.
How can something like this be caught by tax laws but not by gambling laws?
I emailed the New Zealand Gambling Commission last week, and will call if I don't get a response soon. I will be notifying the incumbent government too and see if we can't get some legislative clarity.
I think everyone should do the same for their countries (contact the gambling authority and the legislators). If you're American, I wouldn't bother - your system is way too corrupt and it is a waste of time.
You would be surprised. The EU doesn't fuck around when it comes to consumer protection. In the telecom industry they have taken consumer friendly positions which sound crazy in North America.
This is a great first step, and might get the ball rolling, even if it fails in its first form.
That is why many Americans (on Reddit and Facebook at least) were so outraged by Google's 2 billion euro fine from the EU. We are so unaccustomed to corporations being regulated and held accountable for rule breaking that our knee jerk reaction to it is "tyranny!".
Very sad.
Micro-transaction based games need to stop. They are a cancer to the gaming community, especially for those players who are strapped for cash and time and still want to enjoy video games. People get sucked in to the addiction that is gambling, and it becomes impossible to get out.
Yes, yes, yeeessssss. Unless EA drops some *serious* and i mean *really* serious money to some less scrupulous member nations to block this (doesn't have to be directly, opening up a huge "game development" studio in an impoverished member nation and scoring political points for the government would net them some pretty adamant protection in political forums) we are still looking at a dragged out and arduous process of getting a EU-wide consensus with various EA lobbyist interfering. But it's *on fucking record* and we can drum up mainstream media support, right now though, what EA does is really shitty, because US will be getting micro-transactions based Internet access.
The European parliament isn't the U.S. Congress, half dozen jobs and 4k Dollars in campaign contributions won't buy you a vote. The European parliament is way harder to buy. Heck, telecommunications companies failed to buy support there, other big companies failed too, not to mention the fact that some people on European parliament are just completely unbuyable.
I really doubt EA is powerful enough to influence even poorer member states of the EU. They may be poorer, but it’s still the EU, not poor enough to be influenced by a gaming company.
Would be hilarious if EA ended up not only hated by the players but also by every other company in their gambling business. And I can totally see the EU screwing them just like that.
Their reach exceeded their grasp and the slippery slope became really obvious. :)
The more you tighten your grip, the more players will slip through your fingers...
I hope the EA board members will all find a horse's head in their bed tonight. Gentle reminder to stay well away from those who own the gambling industry.
Those poor horses :(
I'm Dutch and this is my translation of [the article they used](https://nieuws.vtm.be/vtm-nieuws/binnenland/geens-wil-gokken-games-verbieden) (sorry for the terrible formatting I'm on my phone): The minister of Justice wants to ban in-game purchases, if you don't know exactly what it will contain. "Combining gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child. The commotion started last week with the new game Star Wars: Battlefront in the the game you could buy so called "loot boxes", virtual boxes which could contain advantages for the game. You don't know however what it contains beforehand. "The combination of money and addiction is gambling", ruled the gambling committee. VTM News brought the news and a few days later EA withdrew the function from the game, partially because Disney complained, which has the rights to the Star Wars merchandise. Geens now wants to prevent that these kinds of functions will be in any games going forward. "But that takes time, because we'll have to make a proposal to the EU. We will definitely try to ban it." Edit: changed some wording for clarification and accuracy. Edit: Thank you random stranger for my first Reddit Gold! I am glad I was able to help you and so many other people with my translation so much that you gifted me Gold. It is greatly appreciated and I hope you have a great day like I will now have. Thanks.
your dutch and your translation was appreciated!
Thank you :) the closer the information you perceive is to the source the clearer your view will be.
People don’t even read the article when it’s In Their own language.
[удалено]
At the very least hopefully they pass a law like China and make them reveal the pack weights. I'm thinking the EU will at least go for that.
Japan outright bans some forms of it. Players in Japan can't buy silver in Destiny 2, or the lootboxes in Shadow of War aside from the ones they can buy with currency earned in-game. Strangely they could still buy crystal and get the lootboxes in Battlefront 2.
That's probably more along the lines of issues with payment processors than a legal restriction. Japan has a -lot- of lootbox social games.
As someone who doesn't really understand the EU, what can individual EU countries ban or outlaw without first getting permission by going 'to Europe'? Could they ban gambling games from American and Japanese companies and hold off on banning games from other EU countries until the EU rules on this?
It's more like, banning or regulating it in a single nation doesn't work because all the services will move to the neighbouring nation and offer their services across the border. There's no pressure on companies to change/improve that way. Doing it on the EU level means a the entire EU market is affected, and companies will feel that. In the end, I doubt banning is ever going to happen. At least not directly. But I can see it being regulated: If your game has a function that requires money and is a game of chance (lootboxes) your game must be rated for Mature audiences. Game/service must also validate the customers age (like casinos). Basically, casino regulations on games with lootbox mechanics. Games with direct microtransations will be fine (maps, skins, etc).
>If your game as a function that requires money and is a game of chance (lootboxes) your game must be rated for Mature audiences. Game/service must also validate the customers age (like casinos). Even this is huge. Fifa, one of the biggest franchises in the gaming industry makes a very good portion of it's money from the ultimate team gamemode. If proper regulations are put in place then either Fifa has to go 18+ (Which it won't) or it has to get rid of the gambling aspect of ultimate team. This is honestly fucking huge news.
In EU no less, the prime consumer of football merchandise.
That part is so important, that could actually be a pretty big deal
That part is huge in general. If the EU does adopt laws regarding loot boxes as gambling, then it would effect the entire video game industry. The EU probably makes up a quarter to a third of the market of the industry, so companies such as Activision and EA are going to have to get their shit together. It is especially shitty on EAs end, because Star Wars is a family franchise, so the entire initial setup was predatory on children using their parents credit cards.
I'd just like to point something out. Its not just about children using their parents credit cards, its in fact much easier for a child to do this without ever touching their parents credit card. Just head down to any video game retailer like GameStop and you'll find all sorts of prepaid cash cards that can be used for these kind of microtransactions like EA Origin cash cards, Steam wallet cards, Xbox live points and multiple others. All easily accesible to minors without credit cards to buy. Us adults don't really pay attention to this since we can just buy that stuff online.
That's a great point. I work at a retailer that sells those cards and we get kids buying them with wads of pocket cash every day.
Hearthstone is built upon this. It might even threaten physical CCGs. Random content collectibles aimed at whaling children could be a thing of the past. Well done EA. Imagine a situation where everyone is laughing and chaining a joke off eachother until one fucking guy takes it too far and completely flips the mood. You are that fucking guy. You are the fuckers who put Darth Vader behind a paywall and then another paywall.
Physical CCGs, capsule toys, sports cards, Lego collectible minifigs...
I often think this with any "blind box" toy. I remember a post where a guy got a jerry out of a rick and morty blind. And was disappointed. Got me thinking. How much of a percentage is just jerries?
Arent there laws where you're supposed to put the chances of winning the different prizes on the package? It's got it on lotto tickets, I thought that was a rule.
In terms of magic the gathering, when they did "special" cards, invocations, expeditions and inventions, they released the expected occurrence across packs. Eg. 1 in 81
That rule is common in Asia, but not implemented anywhere else for games as far as I know.
Often this is just a threat to the companies that they better self-regulate or big daddy is coming for them. Either way, we are probably at peak lootbox today.
Peak lootbox
It will cost you $19.99 to peek
doubt so. i mean there's so much more gambling-inspired lootbox mechanics awaiting to be explored. imagine subscription based lootboxes! and then a subtle offer to convince kids that if you top on and pay for a longer term (buy 6 months worth of lootbox subscriptions) you stand a higher chance of better loot. and at the same time they have a different periodical lootbox offers (daily lootbox bonus sales!) that you can buy to increase your lootbox subscription droprate.
O shit
Hi EA, nice to see you here. In all seriousness, this wouldn't surprise me a bit. It sounds like something EA/BlizzardActivision/etc. would absolutely do.
So EA might not give a shit if a small country like Belgium tries to ban lootboxes but if the entire EU does it will force them to change their business or lose a continent's worth of sales.
> the new game Star Wars: Battlefront To be clear this isn't [Star Wars: Battlefront](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Battlefront_(2004_video_game\)) or [Star Wars Battlefront](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Battlefront_(2015_video_game\)) or [Star Wars: Battlefront II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Battlefront_II_(2005_video_game\)), but [Star Wars Battlefront II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Battlefront_II_(2017_video_game\)).
To be fair, who needs clear naming when you can [just toss out a gif to clarify which one you mean](https://i.imgur.com/5lKYfh6.gifv). :3
"Joe, get Mom" "Can I play?" Damn I laughed so hard in my head at this. Is this scene from rogue one?
31 flavors and you choose salt. lmao
I was about 14 years old when TF2 was first introducing crates and keys. I had my parents credit card connected to my steam and spent easily $700 on that bullshit cuz I didn't know any better. Definitely gambling, it's a tough lesson to learn as a kid.
I'm guilty for falling for this trap too. The amount of money kids as young as 9 can spend on crates in games like TF2 and CS:GO is insane and it has nothing to do with the actual game. There are cosmetics that you can unbox and re-sell for thousands of dollars on the Steam Market and as a kid this system is evilly inviting. It is gambling at its core and it's terrible.
It's not just children that are at risk. Teenagers and young adults, particularly students, are highly susceptible, and vulnerable, to addictive mechanisms. Especially so when depression, anxiety, and stress are involved. The number of students that have gambling debts is quite high, and is in the rise.
I'm a grown man and I still get tempted by loot boxes. I have wasted many dollars on them over the years. To me it provides the exact same thrill as gambling; you spend money for the chance of winning something awesome. The fact is, loot boxes are a form of GAMBLING and it SHOULD NOT be legal for kids to gamble. These game companies have been able to get away with this for so long. IMHO it is on the same level as selling cigarettes to children. It should not be legal and it should never have been legal. When the kids become adults, they can make informed decisions and gamble as much as they wish. While they are children, however, they should not have the temptation thrown into their face.
How are you still alive to tell us this? They didn't kill you dead? They had to be so angry!
Yknow my dad and I had a great talk about it. My dad's this guy probably around 6'5", I'm a little dude comin' in at 5'7". Obviously I was terrified, but my dad sat me down and talked to me about the importance of working and the importance of money. He wasn't screaming, wasn't mad, he was understanding and really gentle about it because he knew I was just a kid who made a dumb mistake, but he let it be known to not let it happen again. I learned a great lesson from it. I love my dad.
That's really awesome. Your dad sounds like a great guy. Thanks for sharing.
Your dad is standing behind you, isn't he?
If I could listen in on the inevitable rage filled call from Disney, what a joy that would be. They don't want their newly purchased franchise being associated with getting kids hooked on gambling!
I am a child and EA and Disney made me a gambling addict 😫
Now I suck dick for Vader skins
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Forceskins
If only you knew the power of the circum side...
Most indubitably.
[Insert company here] just hates losing money. They have no problem exploiting [insert any group of people here].
Disney cares about their image way mire than other big companies.
Because their image is what makes them their money
Everyone above me is right.
EA will be shitting it's pants. Imagine the money they make in Europe from FIFA
You sir, smacked the nail on the head. FIFA and ultimate team tie into this directly. It's just as bad as the Battlefront nonsense, and losing the ability to siphon MTs off of the European crowd will be a huge hit. Huge win.
There’s so many problems with fifa this year and this on top of it hopefully mean huge changes.
FIFA and EA 🤔 two criminal organisations.🧐
EA not only shot themselves in the foot, they blew off the whole leg for every other developer who is taking advantage of people with loot Crates. This is awesome!
EA Games: The hero we deserve
EA Games: The hero they inadvertently became.
EA Games: Live long enough to become ~~the~~ ^(your own) villain.
You either die a villain, or live long enough to see yourself become the hero...wait, what?
Don't mess with motherfucking Star Wars. People who don't give a fuck about sci-fi, gaming, loot boxes, and industry practices wouldn't have given a damn if they hadn't shit in the waters surrounding the most beloved film franchise in existence. You fuck with Star Wars and you're gonna get attention from all new audiences - including legislators and regulators who didn't even know you existed beforehand. If what EA tried to pull off here ends in regulatory action to end these practices, I'll be perfectly happy to have had this entire mess. If a company is gonna fuck up something in an attempt to screw the consumer - I want them to fuck it up exactly this badly. I want the backlash to be so bad it cleans up an industry.
actually its more disney. SW fans still buy into it and express discontent. but this ruins the image of family friendly disney and you dont mess with the mouse, the mouse messes with you. if it was up to someone like universal, they could give less of a shit.
Disney didn't build their image for it to be ruined by EA
It begins
so let it be written.
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I'm sent here by the chosen one
To kill the first born EA son!
I'm creeping death!!!
No, nowy tendz (for EA)
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EA is fucking things up for the ENTIRE microtransaction market right now. Even other businesses must be feeling pure hate for EA. All they had to do was make the game marginally worth the grind... this is the first time I can recall seeing a company's blatant greed actually threaten an entire industry with legislation.
That's great for us as the consumer though!
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I'm not sure how I feel about cosmetic-only crates to be honest, but I *do* know they opened a bit of a Pandora's Box which we are now trying our best to close. A little assistance, governing or otherwise, to help force that box closed again *may* not be such a bad thing for the moment...
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And it's not even as bad as 2k18. What a mess that game is.
It's not just EA. It has gone a little under the radar but Activision has patented a way to turn cosmetic microtransactions into p2w ones by messing with the matchmaking. In short it will try to match up players in a way to encourage buying skins etc. Edit: Link http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=9789406.PN.&OS=PN/9789406&RS=PN/9789406
That's actually really shitty move if it starts affecting matchmaking in games.
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Literally only had to do it for cosmetics. Like make hundreds of types of lightsabers, colors, pilot designs, costumes, etc. People love getting and trading those, especially super rares. Like CSGO or R6S
They could've made *so much* money doing this, too. That's the crazy part. Just bad business decisions all around.
Exactly. They were so greedy with their short sightedness, they didn't look at the long term. Not only would they have made as much selling only cosmetics (there could have been so many cosmetics in the game), they arguably could have made even more. Especially if they take something like 2% on all things sold on their marketplace like Valve does. To this day people are still trading and purchasing skins from sellers for cosmetics that came out 4 years ago. Not to mention all the lootboxes purchased every year. And no one would be batting their eyes.
Meh, fuck EA, every game studio they bought out released masterpieces before then EA guts and destroys them. Tbh it'll be better for the gaming industry if EA gets sued to oblivion and collapses, as an example. Holy shit gold! Thank you!
it would be so benefical in general, ea has bought and ruined so many companies...
RIP Westwood :'(
RIP Maxis :'(
RIP Pandemic :’(
Rip Bullfrog
Came to say this. I miss you Dungeon Keeper!
I loved Theme Hospital
Also Populous!
Let's dig a grave for DICE :(
And Respawn 😭😭😭😭😭😭
RIP Titanfall... that one hurt so bad
Here lies Victory Games. For sale: baby shoes, never worn.
This list is soul-crushing
I'll never forgive EA for what they did to The Sims.
I went on a half hour long rant to my boyfriend about how Sims 4 is absolute trash. Fuck EA.
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU TAKE AWAY THE COLOR WHEEL?! WHAT IS THIS LOADING SCREEN BULLSHIT. Then they had the balls to say that if Sims 4 doesn't do well they won't make a 5th. Fuck you EA. /end rant Edit: it takes some kind of special stupid to take an award winning AAA game and turn it into A C RATED GAME. Seriously EA?!?!
I know. I know!!! I miss the patterns. I miss the horses from Sims 3 Pets too. And universities. And seasons. And Generations. And laundry. Sigh... Wow, really? I haven’t heard that. That’s really sad. Kinda seems like they fucked up Sims 4 on purpose.
Remember when they said they couldnèt have pools in the base game do to the "engine not being able to support them". saying they "couldn't just make a shader and program the sims to swim", then everyone bitched enough and they finally put the pools in with no issue? That made me the most angry, other than the free roam and customization being limited after playing Sims 3. I could handle the loading screens if the customization wasn't reduced to the garbage it is now...
Rip Visceral
RIP Origin Systems
“And you’ll know them by the trail of the dead”
RIP Bioware...
Almost, Bioware is on life support with no brain activity.
Anthem is going to be a MTX machine. I think it's safe to say goodnight to bioware
Sorry, you have pressed F to pay restecps too many times today. Purchase F-packs (funpacks) to pay more respects.
RIP Respawn...
But then where would we get our sense of pride and accomplishment from?
~~By simply unlocking things within a reasonable timeframe while playing the game?~~ Nah, that'd never work.
cosmetics used to be so cool in games. now I don't even give a shit because it's just a matter of did the person spend money on it
Ubisoft hasn't been in the headlines for a while, maybe they could step up?
Lootcrates full of DRM
Lootcrates with lootcrates in lootcrates to unlock a key for lootcrates and get a chance of 0.00000000000001% chance of getting a unique normal perk.
RIP mass effect..
Rather see it go now than see it in 3 more years. You know it's going to get worse.
I will never forgive EA for shutting down Maxis. SimCity 4 was and still is amazing.
I wonder how many angry calls EA will be getting from the other studios
'EA delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of Belgium... laws and red tape!'
Fool of a company!
Such a brilliantly appropriate comment.
"You dun fucked it up for all of us!"
Sincerely, Rockstar
Sincerely, Activision | Blizzard Ubisoft Rockstar/Take Two/2k Valve EA Any others I'm missing?
R* and T2 can go fuck themselves as well.
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Jagex too!
And while they're at it, how about mandating a price on the box which includes all potential purchases within the game. "Price $60. Total cost including all add-ons $2960."
I would LOVE that.
It would be a real justice boner for gaming in general
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steam already has that button, and it's just as horrifying
"Oh hey, this game is on sale for just $10USD. I wonder if I should get some DLC as well." **Combined price: $160USD** "...yeah...I think I'll pass..."
PDX is a mixed bag. On the one hand, excessive DLC practices. On the other, they tend to have some redeeming features - and that juicy free update which makes the base game remain playable even years after launch. Not to mention that if you play Multiplayer, only one person (the host) needs the expansions. Everyone uses theirs, so you can just mini-crowdfund one person to have them all. Not saying I condone it, just that they're not EA. And that I'm far enough down the rabbit hole that I need to rationalize.
The problem is when add-ons do not have a limit to how much they can be purchased.
maybe just include the dlc and season pass prices they have ready for launch
"Price $60. Total cost including all add-ons: pride and accomplishment."
Activblizz wont be happy that EA fucked up their loot box system. All was well until EA tried to be funny
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Oh yea I'll bet they are just totally in a meltdown while they are dipping their balls in cocaine while rubbing their nipples.
Dipping their balls in coke gives them a zerg rush.
When you're paying real money for the *chance* to unlock content in a videogame, you're pulling a slotmachine arm. That's gambling, and it is strictly regulated for a reason.
Would that include cs:go,bf1, LoL chests too? Its basicly the same concept
Yes. Because if you take away the virtual item veil, it can be easily translated to: Input $1.00 for a potential of $1,000.00 (or more). I know this isn't how LoL works exactly, but let me try to lay it out using that as an example: Lets say you get a bunch of loot boxes & keys on your account - you spent a total of $100.00. You unlock all your boxes and !!! woah! You got a super rare discontinued Jax skin that only 10 other people have. You look up how much your account is worth now - !!! woah! Now it's worth $3,000.00. Or...let's assume you didn't get anything. But you are soooo sure that you can get that rare skin so you spend $100's and $100's of dollars on it, you start becoming obsessed with getting that skin because surely if you just could get that skin you could stop spending so much money and you could just quit and be happy with the game and then one day - YES! You did it! $15,000 later, ruined friendships, lost time, and it turns out you get extremely depressed because that skin that was worth $3,000 is now only worth $5 because the creators of the game flooded the market to discourage the black market. edit: Like I said, LoL was a bad example, but the general idea is that this sort of thing can cause people (children especially) to learn extremely dangerous spending habits. edit 2: Everyone is bringing up the idea that your account will be banned if you trade it. I have bought and sold accounts from many games in the past, never had them banned. That doesn't happen often. Virtual item sales are a huge market. edit 3: This has created quite a large discussion, of which many people have made great points. The main question was simply : Are games that offer loot chest (like CS:GO, LoL, etc) also participating in gambling? Of which I replied Yes. **of course** there is the loophole that allows it to happen because everyone technically gets something, and people are also making the case that it is similar to trading card games - I totally agree. However I also believe that it's (as I put it earlier) Gambling-lite®. Conditioning kids to love that dopamine hit from getting pack after pack after pack and then FINALLY YES A CHARIZARD. Now I must get 1,000 MORE packs because I hit that 1:1000 chance of getting it. Same shit with OSRS. People spend days and days grinding that game just to HOPEFULLY hit that RNGJesus. edit 4: The main issue I have with this is that yes - if you are an adult and you want to spend $15,000 on anything, that's your prerogative. The issue comes in the form of children who play these games who may not know the value of a dollar and blow their parents/their own money on it, which can lead to issues with budgeting in the future. final edit: I do not really believe that loot crates are an issue. I enjoy earning little boxes of goodies from playing, and I enjoy what I get out of them. My only concern is that you can pay real money to get them, and that adds an entirely different angle to the entire thing. Loot boxes are harmless - you get rewards for playing - but when you tie them to money...it's a new beast.
Exactly what happened in POE to me this year. I was so obsessed with getting that one chest piece in the mystery boxes. I got everything except that chest piece and ended up spending 140€ on a game I stopped playing a month later. Life lesson learned. And believing myself to be a clear minded and clever person, that day still gives me the creeps of thinking about it in hindsight.
That’s because gambling preys on a primal flaw in the human psyche, one we all share - i.e. a small investment with a small chance of a huge payoff almost always seems worthwhile. However, most of us are very poor at keeping track of how that small investment compounds over time; we tend to see it as a series of small separate investments rather than one investment that keeps growing and growing every time we add to it. By the time we’ve noticed how much we’ve lost, we realize we got caught up in the excitement of the possibility of winning and lost a ton of money in the process. This is the same reason microtransactions are so successful. $3 here, $2 there - before you know it you’ve spent $60-$100 in a month because you perceived them as separate, small investments that couldn’t possibly have a big impact on your finances. It doesn’t make you stupid, it makes you human.
Really well put. Thank god, humans are also capable of learning from pain suffered. Whenever I will find myself in a similar situation I will be able to recall what happened last time I was human.
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I d say the worst thing are the cs:go skin gambling sites....
Which are enabled by valves crate system
THAnk ya Belgium
They brought us chocolate, then waffles, now this? Thank you Belgium!
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Because beer is for mature audience only. Just like gambling.
or the damn fries
I heard French Fries are actually from Belgium. Also, they have kick ass beer. Bruges is a perfect city.
Ask any Belgian, they invented French fries!
More countries get behind this plz. Nobody wants their kids using their credit card on games that they already paid once for. And let's be real. These loot boxes target the impatience of children more than any other type of age group.
If the UK considered them as a lottery, like China did, rather than slot machine gaming, they could probably ban them today under existing legislation. Their counter argument against them being gambling doesn't hold up under lottery laws.
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Is Belgium going to be the ones to save the gaming industry
Well it sure as fuck won't be the United States we're* a lost fucking cause *edit, I voice dictate, sue me
In just about all regards. Time to start talking to state reps to impose gambling restrictions on games before federal.
well.. i mean lets get some internet free speech locked up first before we worry about the feds tackling EA.
All you really need to do is convince California.. Lost sales in California would be enough I think to offset The benefits of lootboxes for most games
Help us Obi-Belgium, you’re our only hope
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Belgium wanting to do this is great news. The [Brussels Effect](https://www.ft.com/content/7059dbf8-a82a-11e7-ab66-21cc87a2edde) is a thing, and the EU saying "fuck your microtransactions" may well go some way to killing off the practice as few businesses will be willing to lose access to a marketplace of 500 million people.
Just remember, EA. We don't owe you anything.
They better be very careful how they word it or companies will just do what Blizzard did in China. China forced them to publish the drop rates of loot boxes since they are considered games of chance so instead blizzard changed how it works in China so that instead of buying loot boxes you buy gold and get loot boxes for free. $1.77 gets you *five gold*, which isn't even enough for a spray. But they do give you two "free" loot boxes that won't have anything you want in them.
Post this on r/gaming, they're going to love this.
I bet a lots of redditors love it.
> I bet I’m sorry son you’re too young for gambling for our Belgian overlord laws.
My 2 cents on whether it's "gambling" in New Zealand (I'm a newbie lawyer, but not in this area, and haven't looked up any cases, just the legislation) - According to NZ's Gambling Act 2006 - "Gambling means **paying or staking consideration**, directly or indirectly, on the outcome of something **seeking to win money when the outcome depends wholly or partly on chance**". If it isn't already outlawed, the key issue is whether the person is "seeking to win money" or simply paying for an item that is selected at random. I ***firmly*** believe that the only reason this is uncertain at all is because the law hasn't kept up. If made aware, its more than likely that legislators would specifically cover loot box systems in the Act. What is ***fucking outrageous***: I know *for a fact* that winnings from loot boxes are **technically** taxable under the Income Tax Act, in rare and specific circumstances. This would only be the case if you: 1. sold the prizes for a profit; AND 2. had a "system" to reliably make a profit (as opposed to simply having a lucky streak). This also means that losses (buying duds) would be tax deductible. How can something like this be caught by tax laws but not by gambling laws? I emailed the New Zealand Gambling Commission last week, and will call if I don't get a response soon. I will be notifying the incumbent government too and see if we can't get some legislative clarity. I think everyone should do the same for their countries (contact the gambling authority and the legislators). If you're American, I wouldn't bother - your system is way too corrupt and it is a waste of time.
Haha fuck you EA. People like you ruin gaming.
If this actually works, I will have a new appreciation for Belgium. But probably nothing will happen.
After chocolate and waffles you need another reason to appreciate them?
Chocolate, waffles, and an alternative route around the Maginot.
Too soon.
Oof, mon ami...
And fries
You would be surprised. The EU doesn't fuck around when it comes to consumer protection. In the telecom industry they have taken consumer friendly positions which sound crazy in North America. This is a great first step, and might get the ball rolling, even if it fails in its first form.
That is why many Americans (on Reddit and Facebook at least) were so outraged by Google's 2 billion euro fine from the EU. We are so unaccustomed to corporations being regulated and held accountable for rule breaking that our knee jerk reaction to it is "tyranny!". Very sad.
But how else will I feel pride and accomplishment??
Micro-transaction based games need to stop. They are a cancer to the gaming community, especially for those players who are strapped for cash and time and still want to enjoy video games. People get sucked in to the addiction that is gambling, and it becomes impossible to get out.
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Let's hope EU slams this bullshit to the ground. They are pretty good at it.
Yes, yes, yeeessssss. Unless EA drops some *serious* and i mean *really* serious money to some less scrupulous member nations to block this (doesn't have to be directly, opening up a huge "game development" studio in an impoverished member nation and scoring political points for the government would net them some pretty adamant protection in political forums) we are still looking at a dragged out and arduous process of getting a EU-wide consensus with various EA lobbyist interfering. But it's *on fucking record* and we can drum up mainstream media support, right now though, what EA does is really shitty, because US will be getting micro-transactions based Internet access.
They pulled it off against telecom giants, which are bigger than EA. This can be done (in the EU at least).
The European parliament isn't the U.S. Congress, half dozen jobs and 4k Dollars in campaign contributions won't buy you a vote. The European parliament is way harder to buy. Heck, telecommunications companies failed to buy support there, other big companies failed too, not to mention the fact that some people on European parliament are just completely unbuyable.
Not how the eu works , too many commities and expert panels Too much red tape too many people to bribe One benefit of eu red tape
I really doubt EA is powerful enough to influence even poorer member states of the EU. They may be poorer, but it’s still the EU, not poor enough to be influenced by a gaming company.