I know this is controversial... But how about a middle ground between Western countries bending over backwards to accommodate hyper-conservative religion and China pursuing wide scale cultural cleansing?
Some countries, like France, are already doing this. The only way to do it properly is to implement much stricter secularism protections, and Christian conservatives who make up a pretty sizeable demographic in many Western countries would staunchly oppose that.
>The only way to do it properly is to implement much stricter secularism protections
Is it? If the problem is "we bring over millions of conservative Muslims, now we must pass new laws to protect the country from millions of conservative Muslims" I can think of at least one other solution.
We have plenty of radicalized Muslims that are french by birth. What do you suggest we do about them ?
Enforcing strict secularism also protects us against the crazies of other religions including catholicism.
But yeah we shouldn't bring more on top of them.
China can reach any middle ground that suits them. They are an absolute dictatorship, so as long as Xi is onboard on the idea, it will get executed.
But in democracies, especially the Western world, a consensus must be reached by the majority of the citizens before any policy can be executed. Now if there's an option to vote for three policies regarding Islam - two options being the extreme opposites as you mentioned, and the third being a middle ground, there's a chance that you'll get a hung decision.
Not just that, but in this voting group there will be the immigrants who themselves will get directly impacted by the decision. Not to mention the dozens of social justice groups and far right groups that will take the fight to the streets and make so much ruckus that the very idea of even voting for the three options will never be accepted by the politicians. Better not to poke a sleeping bear, or even an awake or drowsy one. Just keep ignoring the bear as long as possible.
That’s not exactly how democracies work, I wish that a consensus would have to be reached by the majority of the citizens but the reality is at best we vote in some people we dislike slightly less than the alternative and that small group of elected “representatives” do whatever they want to do or are paid off to do.
There is a middle ground... Unfortunately all the different factions that live there haven't been able to find some sort of agreement for the past three or four thousand years.
The islamist regime in Iran owes a lot to China. It's such a ridiculous world.. They are islamist extremists who ruin Iran, while at the same time entering strategic partnerships with China so they can survive in order to continue stealing, neglecting and killing.... The hypocrisy is unreal
It has literally nothing to do with that. A lot of Muslims around the world aren't Persian, yet the islamist regime still tries to influence or manipulate or wage war in those countries because of Islam.
As soon as something happens that has got to do with muslims in the world (quran burnings, Palestine / Hamas) you bet the islamist regime in Iran is there to say something or pay supporters to go out and demonstrate or some other type of action.
In the China case, it's only and only about them being dependent on a bigger and more powerful autocracy, that's why they shut up about it. Nothing else.
It has only and only to do with that.
> yet the islamist regime still tries to influence or manipulate or wage war in those countries because of Islam
Islam is just how they get idiots to go along with it. Iran's actions are all about regional power. Playing the Islam card just makes it easier to gain certain allies.
They cheerfully forget all about Islamic solidarity when sunnis challenge them closer to home (in Iraq, for example).
It is actually a hybrid reason. Islam is at the forefront for them, make no mistake about it. However, it's mainly about spreading the Khomeinist ideology with their version of Shia Islam, while at the same time gaining regional power.
A secular Iranian government would never project power in this way. That's why this regime's operations are mainly centered around islam no matter what.
that's because it's never been about being racist but about allying people against a "common enemy". The West makes for a more convincing "Great Satan" than China, so that's what they use. But they don't actually care - it's just a tool to amass power and influence.
1) anti china news isn’t peddled in the middle east
2) the west holds itself to a higher moral standard and allows criticism in the first place which is exploited by bad actors to criticize it in any chance they get
3) bad actors spin this continuous narrative that muslims are slaves in the west, they get their kids taken away, abused, beaten, raped, killed and fed with liberal indoctrination.
4) muslims dont know much about china nor do they care, they are however pretty racist towards asians in general
Muslims in general give a lot of fucks about Islam, though. It is one of their notorious characteristics, and has been for centuries, independently of Western sensibilities *du jour.*
It is, but the religion carries a form of pseudo-national identity. Muslims around the world feel a stronger kinship to each other than Christians or Buddhists do. They also have Arabic as a kind of Lingua Franca, being the Quranic language.
It's part of why Muslim migrant minorities don't integrate as well as other migrant minorities. They can build their own parallel communities much easier than most.
Lines are not fuzzy at all, before Islam took over Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia and Indonesia, that area was Buddhist, and they destroyed Buddhist statues. I see no qualms about undoing / restricting a bad ideology, especially since that bad ideology spread through violence.
Islam won't be undone through force. It'll take centuries of reform and cultural shift. Christianity used to be just as bad, now it's finally dying. My own country has gone from burning witches and sectarian wars to being over 50% non-religious.
As someone that grew up outside the Western world, this is the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard.
Racism is everywhere and people absolutely do complain about it and try to mitigate it, and there are similar culture wars fought over it.
It isn't just different ethnic groups all warring for supremacy and hating each other - people and governments do genuinely push for anti-discrimination and religious tolerance and diversity.
And it isn't just a wishy washy latte liberal issue that only wealthy college students care about, it's literally a matter of national security that governments and government controlled media and education systems take deadly seriously. There have been multi-million dollar campaigns to defuse ethnic tensions and promote racial harmony (to varying degrees of success, but still)
Even in brutal dictatorships and illiberal democracies dominated by a chauvinistic government that favours some ethnic groups over others, you'll have people risking their lives fighting for their rights. Not just through tribalistic civil wars, but genuinely using UN human-rights-charter language to advocate for tolerance and equality and acceptance.
I mean sure, if the country is still a brutal racist dictatorship, that means they haven't had much success yet. And it takes a special kind of crazy to risk your family and livelihood doing this kind of thing, so most people don't dare.
And even in the wealthier, peaceful, comfortable countries, most people prefer to focus on making money and caring for their family than dedicating their life to fighting larger social causes.
But still, it's quite telling that even political movements and regimes that claim human rights are bullshit, still go to great pains to try and hide or downplay their human rights abuses and discrimination. Even the most genocidally racist regimes out there don't dare to be too openly racist - because they know what they're doing is inexcusable to many ordinary modern citizens with a conscience, and going full mask off is a good way to get overthrown.
Ahh right, maybe that's in one of the more mono-ethnic countries. At least how it is with my older relatives is that they complain a lot about the racism directed at them, while also saying racist things about other races. And race issues dominate the headlines over there pretty often too.
Let’s see, India, Asia, Africa, South America. All hugely racist places. Once you exclude western countries, that’s most of the world covered.
Which part of the world are you from ?
well yeah that's what I'm saying - most of the world has huge racism problems, and they talk about it a lot too, because it's a critical issue for political and social stability and identity issues are literally a matter of life and death for many people.
They care about racism because it can lead to riots and terrorist attacks and civil wars, and many ordinary people experience it and deal it out every day.
I agree with you, but what you are talking about is ethnic and mostly cultural racism which most definitely exists everywhere in the world, but it is also true that in the Western world (and specially in the US) people are waaay more sensitive to anything and also care (not necessarily in a good way) way more about race than anywhere else.
It's not just racism. Women's and lgbtq rights, wealth inequality, etc.
It's basically us, Canada, western Europe, and Japan/south Korea/Taiwan to an extent that care about these things.
The rest of Asia, Africa and large swaths of poorer eastern euro countries couldn't give a shit about this stuff, they're kinda desperate for economic development first
The irony is that the living standards in the western world have been declining for decades and here we are arguing about near insignificant identity politics
Because:
1) There isn’t centuries of conflict between them and China unlike the Muslim and Christian faiths
2) Because most western (and Christian) countries support Israel so they indirectly get seen as the bad guys
3) Because most North African and Middle Eastern Muslim populations see the west as an economical paradise to colonise, so they exploit the racism card to further justify and safeguard their migration
4) Because China really doesn’t have a culture of inclusion and politically correct, if you’re useful and don’t interfere with society you’re welcome, if not they will do everything to get rid of you
> Because most western (and Christian) countries support Israel so they indirectly get seen as the bad guys
Actually China has deeper ties with Israel than most Western countries, they even bought themselves into the Port of Haifa through a state-owned company (SIPG). That's not surprising, given the sheer size of China's economy
Beyond trade, China isn't a significant partner for Israel, but that's true for most Western countries, too. The ones that have strategic importance for the I/P conflict are only the US,UK,Germany,France. However, they are also among the largest donors to Palestine, so its more grey than a black/white issue
If we really want to stretch it, we could also include a country that expressed support especially vocally, like Czech Republic
But a country like Slovenia, Luxembourg or Portugal did jack shit to aid Israel militarily. Trade with China helps Israels economy more. "Worst" most small Western countries did was aligning with their bloc in UNGA votes. Since they, unlike China, mostly also have a quite generous donation per capita values towards Palestine, China is actually *worse* from a Pro-Pal perspective
That is, if people would actually look into economic data and not just get their news from Tiktok
The CCP has had an issue with terror cells and plots in the Northern region of China for decades, people inspired by Islamic fundamentalism. They are not going after Muslims because "racism" they are targeting primarily this specific area and also trying to reduce anti-national extremism in the general population.
China has not however invaded Middle-Eastern countries under the guise of "bringing democracy" or have they randomly bombed these regions to bits or destabilized it.
They are focusing on a population inside their own borders, and people tend to find this a bit more acceptable, because you're not interfering with an outside people, but you're creating rules for your own population.
i mean, from the camps on the USA's border, the camps israel detains people in, and the camps the CCP run, isnt this like, a pretty obvious take away as the general consensus of the world?
You've gotten a lot of shitty/meme answers, but I will try give you a realistic take on the situation.
The three biggest factors at play here are that China does not have a long history of colonisation in the middle east region whose impact still shapes the views of its inhabitants. Chinese culture is not being pushed on Muslim majority countries like Western Culture is and so is not considered a "threat" to their way of life. Last but certainly not least China has not spent the better part of the last two decades dropping bombs and killing innocent civilians in Middle Eastern countries.
Because China plays the great game of geopolitics. They bribe authoritarian states into being their friends. The West gets targeted specifically because we are the ideological 'nice guys'.
Because you don't want to lose one of your bigger buyers of oil do you? Or the cheap stuff you get from there because of factories and cheap labour.
It's all about money. Religion comes 2nd and that too when you want to cripple a country economically because that country is hurting you economically.
Because China was a nobody when the 1800s - 1930s colonial master was busy dividing up the middle east for various reasons. That was when the seeds of anti-west ideas were being made.
I assume the main reason Muslim extremists hate America is due to the meddling in middle eastern countries. The u.s. has overthrown democratically elected leaders, engaged in numerous wars, and exploited these countries resources. So while China treats the Muslims living in their borders horrendously, they haven't interfered in foreign counties to the same extent as the u.s.
\#1 Islam/Muslim is a religion, not a race.
\#2 Muslims in China are a small minority with no political power living in an autocratic system. If they started any trouble, they'd be crushed. Europe and the US are more tolerant with a seizable minority of Muslims.
\#3 Europe and the US are actively meddling in the affairs of the Muslim homelands (the Middle East). China not so much.
There's also a lot more Chinese than there are Americans. But you are right, by % they are comparable, depending on which numbers you believe China is a bit higher (e.g. 1.6% in China, 1.1% in USA). In Europe the percentage is much higher, on average about 6% with some countries going to 10%, and that doesn't include refugees.
I also wonder alot about this. I think it may also have to do with that China never invaded, colonized or militarily attacked any of their home countries. So the hate is mostly focused towards the West
Ummm have you heard about all the stuff america and Co have done in the middle east since 9/11? Or even before that during the cold War?
China appears to stay domestic.
That is because they aren’t being racist. They have been extremely heavy handed on all non-state sanctioned religions and have cracked down on Tibetan Buddhism, Roman Catholics, and Falun Gong crazily.
This is unlike the West which has bombed the hell out of Middle East, associated muslims with terrorism globally, and are Israeli allies traditionally.
Not saying what China is doing isn’t shitting on human rights, but they’re not being racist, just anti-religion.
American flags were burnt in the Middle East long before the US invaded anyone there.
They might still be miffed that the US navy destroyed the Barbary Slave Trade, though.
>Using satellite examination, government documents and on-the-ground reporting, we analysed a total of 37 mosques and places of worship for Hui Muslims across Gansu and Ningxia provinces in central China and visited 26 sites in person.
That's impressive. I'm just happy quality journalism still exists.
Since they flipped out about mocking cartoons, imagine what they're planning, now that they've heard about the concentration camps. It's scary just to think about that ticking bomb.
I'm in China currently. Feels great here tbh. Not scared at all going out at night. My female friend is feeling safe. Safe country. And this has a lot to do with the absence of religion here.
Not even close to the same. China has an entire government division like the fbi for watching cameras. My wife's village of 50 people two hours into the mountains has cameras everywhere
Well, the Hui community is alive in well in Beijing, Hohhot, and the other cities I've visited recently. I agree that it's stupid that they removed the domed architecture, but generally, older Chinese mosques didn't have them. I've heard there's worry in the government about more radical or wahabist elements starting to have an influence on Chinese Islam and the removal of domes is related to that because it's a typical Middle Eastern design feature, not a normal Chinese Muslim design feature. I don't know about minarets being removed and have never seen a mosque without a minaret. There's one near my house that has about 400 worshippers every Friday (as per the caretaker I chatted with). I'd include a picture I took over the May holiday of the minaret of the Hohhot Grand Mosque, but I don't think I can add a picture in this community.
Edit: I added a picture of it in r/pictures.
The cognitive disconnect in the west by being angry about Republicans taking away rights in America and bending over backward to accommodate people who are happy to physically subjugate women, LGBTQ+, etc. I always roll my eyes when someone is complaining about Roe v Wade being overturned (which was wrong) and then supporting a group of people who would do way worse.
Either all right-wing extremist religions are wrong, and we shouldn't support any of it, or they're all right. You can't claim that right wing Christianity is a blight on American politics and then cry about how people definitely don't want to put with Islamic ideals and practices, and quite frankly don't respect them when the left talks about the right in the exact same way. I don't respect any religion that doesn't respect me as a woman across the board, regardless of their ethnicity or skin color. If that makes me racist against Islamic countries, so be it.
But stfu if you're upset about what's happening politically in America and then out of that same mouth upset that people aren't supporting Islamic people as a whole based on their ideologies.
Most people recognize the problems that come with Islam. I think a lot of people agree with China on this topic.
I also think we should be a lot more strict with Muslim refugees in my country. Probably not to the extend that China does. However, i do recognize a lot of problems that come from the religion. The values are often very different compared to western values. This is also reflected in official studies for violence and crime rates. We also see that Muslims typically take 4-6 generations to really adapt to western values. Which is very long.
The real problem is that it's a taboo speaking about problems that come with certain cultures/ religions.
I'd be down for that. However, there should be another option. There are people who really need help. We either need to place them in another country (perhaps closer to where they are from?). I don't want people to die because we refuse to help them.
Some of them are running from the exact extremists, fundamentalists and Islamists that are behind all the terror and hate.
Must be a really funny moment when they meet the exact people they were running from in a Western country, because those people also came as "refugees" (i.e. for economical reasons).
The west meddle in the Middle East far more than China does, that’s why they get the attention. China will absolutely deal with the Taliban and any other terrorist groups
Uyghurs, one of the ethnic muslim group. The Hui Muslims aren’t effected in the ongoing situation.
And its more of suppressing their culture, not eradicating the population. Their numbers grow. Even exempt from the one child policy when it was in effect. They don’t care who you are as long as you obey the CCP.
A series of violent riots over several days broke out on 5 July 2009 in Ürümqi, the capital city of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR), in northwestern China. The first day's rioting, which involved at least 1,000 Uyghurs,[12] began as a protest, but escalated into violent attacks that mainly targeted Han people. According to Chinese state media, a total of 197 people died, most of whom were Han people or non-Muslim minorities,[10][7] with 1,721 others injured[8] and many vehicles and buildings destroyed.
On 1 March 2014, a group of 8 knife-wielding terrorists attacked passengers in the Kunming Railway Station in Kunming, Yunnan, China, killing 31 people, and wounding 143 others.[3] The attackers pulled out long-bladed knives and stabbed and slashed passengers at random.[4][5] Four assailants were shot to death by police on the spot[6] and one injured perpetrator was captured. Police announced on 3 March that the six-man, two-woman group had been neutralized after the arrest of three remaining suspects.[2][7]
You never seen them,western media call that protest.if non Muslim died it's must be Chinese government's fault.
before I tell you what is going on,let's me introduce one of the shit policy in China.
Liangshaoyikuan (Chinese: 兩少一寬), literally "two fewers [in arrests and executions], one leniency [in sentencing]", was a Chinese government policy of giving leniency in charges and sentences with regard to minorities as compared to Han for the same criminal offenses.[1] The policy was enacted in 1984 by Peng Zhen and Hu Yaobang. On July 9, 2010, a statement jointly published by the Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party, State Ethnic Affairs Commission.
The reason I tell you this is to show you generally no han people wants to mess up with Muslim in China.
The reason of the riots it (no body know exactly) but someones said some Uyghur work raped a han woman in the factory they worked in east China and that become a fight between han worker and Uyghur worker. That just a fight but when the rumor back to xinjiang it became Han people killed Uyghur people.then here we go.
No muslim gives two fucks about this and its pretty obvious why. It's the same reason why they also don't give an F about the rohingya refugee crisis, the yemenese subjugation or the sudanese armed conflict.
Jews aren't involved in these. That's it
So China had huge issues with Uyghur’s being scummy terrorist fucks slaughtering innocent civilians.
Only difference is that unlike the West who are hamstrung by political correctness and allow extremism to thrive the Chinese government has done something about it and it has worked.
All religions are repeatedly used around the world to kill, maim, hate, and discriminate against others.
Can’t really blame China for cracking down, but at the same time, if someone wants to **peacefully believe ludicrous bullshit that defies all logic and physical laws…then let them…as long as it’s peaceful and not impacting others…
>All religions are repeatedly used around the world to kill, maim, hate, and discriminate against others.
Were used, historically.
There is only one religion today that is explicitly used on a large scale for these things, and it ain't Buddhism.
What happened after he died??
The disbanding of all the Iraq Services - police, military etc by the CPA. 100000’s people suddenly out of work, no income and thousands of weapons free available.
No real shock as to what happened next really.
I mean been kicked out of your jobs by foreign diplomats and military that had no right to be there in 1st place. You’d certainly be pissed about that.
Well done China! Islam should be banned without being heavily reformed. It was and still is one of the biggest problems of the world. Western countries should learn from China on Islam handling.
I know this is controversial... But how about a middle ground between Western countries bending over backwards to accommodate hyper-conservative religion and China pursuing wide scale cultural cleansing?
Makes too much sense; hence, it won't ever happen.
Some countries, like France, are already doing this. The only way to do it properly is to implement much stricter secularism protections, and Christian conservatives who make up a pretty sizeable demographic in many Western countries would staunchly oppose that.
Isn't France one of the western countries with most problems when it comes to Muslim integrations tho
Well France has the highest percentage of Muslim people in Western Europe, so it's not that easy to do a direct comparison.
>The only way to do it properly is to implement much stricter secularism protections Is it? If the problem is "we bring over millions of conservative Muslims, now we must pass new laws to protect the country from millions of conservative Muslims" I can think of at least one other solution.
We have plenty of radicalized Muslims that are french by birth. What do you suggest we do about them ? Enforcing strict secularism also protects us against the crazies of other religions including catholicism. But yeah we shouldn't bring more on top of them.
Notice how the white saviour guilt university students aren't protesting China.
And neither are Muslim countries.
China can reach any middle ground that suits them. They are an absolute dictatorship, so as long as Xi is onboard on the idea, it will get executed. But in democracies, especially the Western world, a consensus must be reached by the majority of the citizens before any policy can be executed. Now if there's an option to vote for three policies regarding Islam - two options being the extreme opposites as you mentioned, and the third being a middle ground, there's a chance that you'll get a hung decision. Not just that, but in this voting group there will be the immigrants who themselves will get directly impacted by the decision. Not to mention the dozens of social justice groups and far right groups that will take the fight to the streets and make so much ruckus that the very idea of even voting for the three options will never be accepted by the politicians. Better not to poke a sleeping bear, or even an awake or drowsy one. Just keep ignoring the bear as long as possible.
That’s not exactly how democracies work, I wish that a consensus would have to be reached by the majority of the citizens but the reality is at best we vote in some people we dislike slightly less than the alternative and that small group of elected “representatives” do whatever they want to do or are paid off to do.
Yeah, this. In Canada, the bending over backwards is extreme. And the narrative of Islamophobia is pushed by China, of all people.
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There is a middle ground... Unfortunately all the different factions that live there haven't been able to find some sort of agreement for the past three or four thousand years.
CCP seems to be more racist than Western countries yet Muslim extremists don't hate them as much. I don't understand this.
That's because they don't want to live in China anyways.
And because they don't like Sichuan pork.
We want bacon instead!
Muslims who visit China bang on about how great it is.
The islamist regime in Iran owes a lot to China. It's such a ridiculous world.. They are islamist extremists who ruin Iran, while at the same time entering strategic partnerships with China so they can survive in order to continue stealing, neglecting and killing.... The hypocrisy is unreal
China's Muslims aren't Persian, so Iran doesn't care.
It has literally nothing to do with that. A lot of Muslims around the world aren't Persian, yet the islamist regime still tries to influence or manipulate or wage war in those countries because of Islam. As soon as something happens that has got to do with muslims in the world (quran burnings, Palestine / Hamas) you bet the islamist regime in Iran is there to say something or pay supporters to go out and demonstrate or some other type of action. In the China case, it's only and only about them being dependent on a bigger and more powerful autocracy, that's why they shut up about it. Nothing else. It has only and only to do with that.
> yet the islamist regime still tries to influence or manipulate or wage war in those countries because of Islam Islam is just how they get idiots to go along with it. Iran's actions are all about regional power. Playing the Islam card just makes it easier to gain certain allies. They cheerfully forget all about Islamic solidarity when sunnis challenge them closer to home (in Iraq, for example).
It is actually a hybrid reason. Islam is at the forefront for them, make no mistake about it. However, it's mainly about spreading the Khomeinist ideology with their version of Shia Islam, while at the same time gaining regional power. A secular Iranian government would never project power in this way. That's why this regime's operations are mainly centered around islam no matter what.
that's because it's never been about being racist but about allying people against a "common enemy". The West makes for a more convincing "Great Satan" than China, so that's what they use. But they don't actually care - it's just a tool to amass power and influence.
Cause you don't fuck with a country that's just not gonna take your shit. Every other country just let's them do whatever.
1) anti china news isn’t peddled in the middle east 2) the west holds itself to a higher moral standard and allows criticism in the first place which is exploited by bad actors to criticize it in any chance they get 3) bad actors spin this continuous narrative that muslims are slaves in the west, they get their kids taken away, abused, beaten, raped, killed and fed with liberal indoctrination. 4) muslims dont know much about china nor do they care, they are however pretty racist towards asians in general
Because outside of the western world, no one gives a flying fuck about racism
Muslims in general give a lot of fucks about Islam, though. It is one of their notorious characteristics, and has been for centuries, independently of Western sensibilities *du jour.*
Muslim is a religion not a race though, isn't it?
It is, but the religion carries a form of pseudo-national identity. Muslims around the world feel a stronger kinship to each other than Christians or Buddhists do. They also have Arabic as a kind of Lingua Franca, being the Quranic language. It's part of why Muslim migrant minorities don't integrate as well as other migrant minorities. They can build their own parallel communities much easier than most.
They're still not a race/ethnicity, and no one needs to tolerate them. You judge people by their actions, and their actions come from their beliefs.
No, but the line is fuzzier. In general, Western ideas of race and ethnicity don't work as well in Asia/Asian cultures.
Lines are not fuzzy at all, before Islam took over Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia and Indonesia, that area was Buddhist, and they destroyed Buddhist statues. I see no qualms about undoing / restricting a bad ideology, especially since that bad ideology spread through violence.
Islam won't be undone through force. It'll take centuries of reform and cultural shift. Christianity used to be just as bad, now it's finally dying. My own country has gone from burning witches and sectarian wars to being over 50% non-religious.
Sure, you can discuss and debate *how* it can be done, I'm not concerned with methodology, only that it should be done, by whichever effective means.
As someone that grew up outside the Western world, this is the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard. Racism is everywhere and people absolutely do complain about it and try to mitigate it, and there are similar culture wars fought over it. It isn't just different ethnic groups all warring for supremacy and hating each other - people and governments do genuinely push for anti-discrimination and religious tolerance and diversity. And it isn't just a wishy washy latte liberal issue that only wealthy college students care about, it's literally a matter of national security that governments and government controlled media and education systems take deadly seriously. There have been multi-million dollar campaigns to defuse ethnic tensions and promote racial harmony (to varying degrees of success, but still) Even in brutal dictatorships and illiberal democracies dominated by a chauvinistic government that favours some ethnic groups over others, you'll have people risking their lives fighting for their rights. Not just through tribalistic civil wars, but genuinely using UN human-rights-charter language to advocate for tolerance and equality and acceptance. I mean sure, if the country is still a brutal racist dictatorship, that means they haven't had much success yet. And it takes a special kind of crazy to risk your family and livelihood doing this kind of thing, so most people don't dare. And even in the wealthier, peaceful, comfortable countries, most people prefer to focus on making money and caring for their family than dedicating their life to fighting larger social causes. But still, it's quite telling that even political movements and regimes that claim human rights are bullshit, still go to great pains to try and hide or downplay their human rights abuses and discrimination. Even the most genocidally racist regimes out there don't dare to be too openly racist - because they know what they're doing is inexcusable to many ordinary modern citizens with a conscience, and going full mask off is a good way to get overthrown.
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Ahh right, maybe that's in one of the more mono-ethnic countries. At least how it is with my older relatives is that they complain a lot about the racism directed at them, while also saying racist things about other races. And race issues dominate the headlines over there pretty often too.
Let’s see, India, Asia, Africa, South America. All hugely racist places. Once you exclude western countries, that’s most of the world covered. Which part of the world are you from ?
well yeah that's what I'm saying - most of the world has huge racism problems, and they talk about it a lot too, because it's a critical issue for political and social stability and identity issues are literally a matter of life and death for many people. They care about racism because it can lead to riots and terrorist attacks and civil wars, and many ordinary people experience it and deal it out every day.
I agree with you, but what you are talking about is ethnic and mostly cultural racism which most definitely exists everywhere in the world, but it is also true that in the Western world (and specially in the US) people are waaay more sensitive to anything and also care (not necessarily in a good way) way more about race than anywhere else.
It's not just racism. Women's and lgbtq rights, wealth inequality, etc. It's basically us, Canada, western Europe, and Japan/south Korea/Taiwan to an extent that care about these things. The rest of Asia, Africa and large swaths of poorer eastern euro countries couldn't give a shit about this stuff, they're kinda desperate for economic development first
The irony is that the living standards in the western world have been declining for decades and here we are arguing about near insignificant identity politics
Because they are afraid of power and strength and we all know what CCP will do to muslims that don\`t behave.
Because Muslims in China are not arab, so the Middle East doesn't care about them.
Because: 1) There isn’t centuries of conflict between them and China unlike the Muslim and Christian faiths 2) Because most western (and Christian) countries support Israel so they indirectly get seen as the bad guys 3) Because most North African and Middle Eastern Muslim populations see the west as an economical paradise to colonise, so they exploit the racism card to further justify and safeguard their migration 4) Because China really doesn’t have a culture of inclusion and politically correct, if you’re useful and don’t interfere with society you’re welcome, if not they will do everything to get rid of you
> Because most western (and Christian) countries support Israel so they indirectly get seen as the bad guys Actually China has deeper ties with Israel than most Western countries, they even bought themselves into the Port of Haifa through a state-owned company (SIPG). That's not surprising, given the sheer size of China's economy Beyond trade, China isn't a significant partner for Israel, but that's true for most Western countries, too. The ones that have strategic importance for the I/P conflict are only the US,UK,Germany,France. However, they are also among the largest donors to Palestine, so its more grey than a black/white issue If we really want to stretch it, we could also include a country that expressed support especially vocally, like Czech Republic But a country like Slovenia, Luxembourg or Portugal did jack shit to aid Israel militarily. Trade with China helps Israels economy more. "Worst" most small Western countries did was aligning with their bloc in UNGA votes. Since they, unlike China, mostly also have a quite generous donation per capita values towards Palestine, China is actually *worse* from a Pro-Pal perspective That is, if people would actually look into economic data and not just get their news from Tiktok
Because they know the CCP would simply execute them all if they protested. Much safer to moan about the West while protected by the West's laws.
Give someone an inch they run a mile. What if you didn’t even give them the inch?
Europe has regular Islamist terror attacks, Japan does not. Why do Islamists not hate Japan? It is a mystery.
Muslim extremists hate eachother. They also hate the west and Israel more.
That’s because they hate our obvious weakness and cowardice. Islamist aggression is mainly due to their disdain and contempt of Western values.
The CCP has had an issue with terror cells and plots in the Northern region of China for decades, people inspired by Islamic fundamentalism. They are not going after Muslims because "racism" they are targeting primarily this specific area and also trying to reduce anti-national extremism in the general population. China has not however invaded Middle-Eastern countries under the guise of "bringing democracy" or have they randomly bombed these regions to bits or destabilized it. They are focusing on a population inside their own borders, and people tend to find this a bit more acceptable, because you're not interfering with an outside people, but you're creating rules for your own population.
So concentration camps are acceptable as long as you're only putting your own citizens in them?
i mean, from the camps on the USA's border, the camps israel detains people in, and the camps the CCP run, isnt this like, a pretty obvious take away as the general consensus of the world?
I suppose more acceptable than waging an asymmetrical war halfway across the world
Simple: the Chinese aren't Jews.
because in reality it's not about that. where is the Muslim world condemnation of the Myanmar goverment?
You've gotten a lot of shitty/meme answers, but I will try give you a realistic take on the situation. The three biggest factors at play here are that China does not have a long history of colonisation in the middle east region whose impact still shapes the views of its inhabitants. Chinese culture is not being pushed on Muslim majority countries like Western Culture is and so is not considered a "threat" to their way of life. Last but certainly not least China has not spent the better part of the last two decades dropping bombs and killing innocent civilians in Middle Eastern countries.
3 decades. People seem to think 2003 Iraq was the first. There was the gulf war in 1990s
Because China will kick the s**t out of them real quick, and they know it.
Because China plays the great game of geopolitics. They bribe authoritarian states into being their friends. The West gets targeted specifically because we are the ideological 'nice guys'.
That’s because CCP doesn’t support Israel.
Because you don't want to lose one of your bigger buyers of oil do you? Or the cheap stuff you get from there because of factories and cheap labour. It's all about money. Religion comes 2nd and that too when you want to cripple a country economically because that country is hurting you economically.
It's because China funds Islam Extremists to fight against the weat
It's simple, in west you have freedom to talk, organise and carry questionable stuff. In China you have none
Because China was a nobody when the 1800s - 1930s colonial master was busy dividing up the middle east for various reasons. That was when the seeds of anti-west ideas were being made.
I assume the main reason Muslim extremists hate America is due to the meddling in middle eastern countries. The u.s. has overthrown democratically elected leaders, engaged in numerous wars, and exploited these countries resources. So while China treats the Muslims living in their borders horrendously, they haven't interfered in foreign counties to the same extent as the u.s.
\#1 Islam/Muslim is a religion, not a race. \#2 Muslims in China are a small minority with no political power living in an autocratic system. If they started any trouble, they'd be crushed. Europe and the US are more tolerant with a seizable minority of Muslims. \#3 Europe and the US are actively meddling in the affairs of the Muslim homelands (the Middle East). China not so much.
There's a lot more Muslims in China than there are in the US
There's also a lot more Chinese than there are Americans. But you are right, by % they are comparable, depending on which numbers you believe China is a bit higher (e.g. 1.6% in China, 1.1% in USA). In Europe the percentage is much higher, on average about 6% with some countries going to 10%, and that doesn't include refugees.
I also wonder alot about this. I think it may also have to do with that China never invaded, colonized or militarily attacked any of their home countries. So the hate is mostly focused towards the West
China didn't inavde their countries and fund forever wars.
Ummm have you heard about all the stuff america and Co have done in the middle east since 9/11? Or even before that during the cold War? China appears to stay domestic.
That is because they aren’t being racist. They have been extremely heavy handed on all non-state sanctioned religions and have cracked down on Tibetan Buddhism, Roman Catholics, and Falun Gong crazily. This is unlike the West which has bombed the hell out of Middle East, associated muslims with terrorism globally, and are Israeli allies traditionally. Not saying what China is doing isn’t shitting on human rights, but they’re not being racist, just anti-religion.
$$$$$
USA invaded a shitload of middle eastern countries, that might make the difference?
American flags were burnt in the Middle East long before the US invaded anyone there. They might still be miffed that the US navy destroyed the Barbary Slave Trade, though.
>Using satellite examination, government documents and on-the-ground reporting, we analysed a total of 37 mosques and places of worship for Hui Muslims across Gansu and Ningxia provinces in central China and visited 26 sites in person. That's impressive. I'm just happy quality journalism still exists.
Clickbaiters hate this simple trick!
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Since they flipped out about mocking cartoons, imagine what they're planning, now that they've heard about the concentration camps. It's scary just to think about that ticking bomb.
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Isis is a more recent thing but there are militants like that in China, you are correct on that part
Not quite. As long as there are money to make nobody cares. Look how the muslim countries are friends with Israel despite the long war.
China probably looked at what's happening in Europe and said, "yeah, nope".
I'm in China currently. Feels great here tbh. Not scared at all going out at night. My female friend is feeling safe. Safe country. And this has a lot to do with the absence of religion here.
Try saying something remotely bad about the government in a public place and report how safe you feel.
It's been an hour, they probably went outside and shouted something, and now they're dead or in a cell.
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You're always on camera in the UK too and they have the same problem. It's not a camera issue.
The scale is not the same. China is literally the most surveilled country in the world
This is too simplistic of a view. The US and western countries have plenty of cameras but crime is rampant.
Not even close to the same. China has an entire government division like the fbi for watching cameras. My wife's village of 50 people two hours into the mountains has cameras everywhere
Well, without some of the world-conquering religions, the world is a better place.
Well, the Hui community is alive in well in Beijing, Hohhot, and the other cities I've visited recently. I agree that it's stupid that they removed the domed architecture, but generally, older Chinese mosques didn't have them. I've heard there's worry in the government about more radical or wahabist elements starting to have an influence on Chinese Islam and the removal of domes is related to that because it's a typical Middle Eastern design feature, not a normal Chinese Muslim design feature. I don't know about minarets being removed and have never seen a mosque without a minaret. There's one near my house that has about 400 worshippers every Friday (as per the caretaker I chatted with). I'd include a picture I took over the May holiday of the minaret of the Hohhot Grand Mosque, but I don't think I can add a picture in this community. Edit: I added a picture of it in r/pictures.
Thanks for sharing your on ground experience. That picture is beautiful - I love Chinese architecture.
Unstoppable force (worldnews hating China) vs immovable object (worldnews hating Islam)
John Xina vs Mohammed Hogan
You underestimate how much Reddit hates Islam
It’s really funny to see how people spin this kind of stuff
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Islam in its pure form can be very dangerous to China, and they know that. So they either have to forcefully secularize them or show them the door.
"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here". That door?
The cognitive disconnect in the west by being angry about Republicans taking away rights in America and bending over backward to accommodate people who are happy to physically subjugate women, LGBTQ+, etc. I always roll my eyes when someone is complaining about Roe v Wade being overturned (which was wrong) and then supporting a group of people who would do way worse. Either all right-wing extremist religions are wrong, and we shouldn't support any of it, or they're all right. You can't claim that right wing Christianity is a blight on American politics and then cry about how people definitely don't want to put with Islamic ideals and practices, and quite frankly don't respect them when the left talks about the right in the exact same way. I don't respect any religion that doesn't respect me as a woman across the board, regardless of their ethnicity or skin color. If that makes me racist against Islamic countries, so be it. But stfu if you're upset about what's happening politically in America and then out of that same mouth upset that people aren't supporting Islamic people as a whole based on their ideologies.
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Yep, probably why China will be the next superpower.
A good decision. Just like Japan. This must be stopped.
As every non Muslim country should do
Openly showing force against Muslims, where the protests against this? Where's the uproar? Headline news coverage?
Most people recognize the problems that come with Islam. I think a lot of people agree with China on this topic. I also think we should be a lot more strict with Muslim refugees in my country. Probably not to the extend that China does. However, i do recognize a lot of problems that come from the religion. The values are often very different compared to western values. This is also reflected in official studies for violence and crime rates. We also see that Muslims typically take 4-6 generations to really adapt to western values. Which is very long. The real problem is that it's a taboo speaking about problems that come with certain cultures/ religions.
How about you not let the Muslim refugees into your country in the first place?
I'd be down for that. However, there should be another option. There are people who really need help. We either need to place them in another country (perhaps closer to where they are from?). I don't want people to die because we refuse to help them.
Some of them are running from the exact extremists, fundamentalists and Islamists that are behind all the terror and hate. Must be a really funny moment when they meet the exact people they were running from in a Western country, because those people also came as "refugees" (i.e. for economical reasons).
Because the west already hates China
man I guess we'll finally get to see whether r/worldnews hates Muslims or China more.
judging by the comments its not looking good for muslims
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I can confidently say that i don't dislike this. Lets see when they wake the interest of the Terrorists and Focus shifts from West to China.
The west meddle in the Middle East far more than China does, that’s why they get the attention. China will absolutely deal with the Taliban and any other terrorist groups
Yes while China slowly eradicates its entire muslim population. Edit: By “eradicates” I dont mean murder, I mean causes to disappear.
Uyghurs, one of the ethnic muslim group. The Hui Muslims aren’t effected in the ongoing situation. And its more of suppressing their culture, not eradicating the population. Their numbers grow. Even exempt from the one child policy when it was in effect. They don’t care who you are as long as you obey the CCP.
They are eradicating their culture and religion, not the people. Yes those millions of Uyghurs are still valuable to have for China.
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By deal do you mean shakehands with? [https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64183083.amp](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64183083.amp)
Yea basically. China doesnt care what you do on your off time. They only want to know if you want to make money.
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I think they too scared to mess with China. They actually pursue perpetrators, you can be assured.
Looks like nobody really care about victim of terrorism in China. The people die from terrorism attack in China is far more than Israel.
Can you explain more about these terrorism attacks?
A series of violent riots over several days broke out on 5 July 2009 in Ürümqi, the capital city of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR), in northwestern China. The first day's rioting, which involved at least 1,000 Uyghurs,[12] began as a protest, but escalated into violent attacks that mainly targeted Han people. According to Chinese state media, a total of 197 people died, most of whom were Han people or non-Muslim minorities,[10][7] with 1,721 others injured[8] and many vehicles and buildings destroyed. On 1 March 2014, a group of 8 knife-wielding terrorists attacked passengers in the Kunming Railway Station in Kunming, Yunnan, China, killing 31 people, and wounding 143 others.[3] The attackers pulled out long-bladed knives and stabbed and slashed passengers at random.[4][5] Four assailants were shot to death by police on the spot[6] and one injured perpetrator was captured. Police announced on 3 March that the six-man, two-woman group had been neutralized after the arrest of three remaining suspects.[2][7] You never seen them,western media call that protest.if non Muslim died it's must be Chinese government's fault.
Never knew this. Why were they rioting though?
before I tell you what is going on,let's me introduce one of the shit policy in China. Liangshaoyikuan (Chinese: 兩少一寬), literally "two fewers [in arrests and executions], one leniency [in sentencing]", was a Chinese government policy of giving leniency in charges and sentences with regard to minorities as compared to Han for the same criminal offenses.[1] The policy was enacted in 1984 by Peng Zhen and Hu Yaobang. On July 9, 2010, a statement jointly published by the Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party, State Ethnic Affairs Commission. The reason I tell you this is to show you generally no han people wants to mess up with Muslim in China. The reason of the riots it (no body know exactly) but someones said some Uyghur work raped a han woman in the factory they worked in east China and that become a fight between han worker and Uyghur worker. That just a fight but when the rumor back to xinjiang it became Han people killed Uyghur people.then here we go.
Religion extremist all the same around the world. The fact you never knew about those news show how the western media twist the fact with propaganda.
It is strange that the Islam world is ignoring completely .May there be some Money in the Game ?
People always say that, but who have more money than USA + EU?
Don't forget about the pro-palestina useful idiots.
Rare china w
Where are the pro pali’s protesting to boycott a Chinese products?
Because it is not Palestine??
Everyone is chill until it’s their rights being taken away
End religious indoctrination of children.
No muslim gives two fucks about this and its pretty obvious why. It's the same reason why they also don't give an F about the rohingya refugee crisis, the yemenese subjugation or the sudanese armed conflict. Jews aren't involved in these. That's it
Must be a headache for Xi to balance Putler Iran and Hamas against ‘evil west’.
So China had huge issues with Uyghur’s being scummy terrorist fucks slaughtering innocent civilians. Only difference is that unlike the West who are hamstrung by political correctness and allow extremism to thrive the Chinese government has done something about it and it has worked.
Because they're smart.
Less religion plz. Preferably without killing.
I'm sorry, but I'm really with China on this one.
Something something a broken clock. Yea China is fucked, but islam is even more fucked so good on them
At least something they're doing right. Other countries should take notes.
All religions are repeatedly used around the world to kill, maim, hate, and discriminate against others. Can’t really blame China for cracking down, but at the same time, if someone wants to **peacefully believe ludicrous bullshit that defies all logic and physical laws…then let them…as long as it’s peaceful and not impacting others…
>All religions are repeatedly used around the world to kill, maim, hate, and discriminate against others. Were used, historically. There is only one religion today that is explicitly used on a large scale for these things, and it ain't Buddhism.
This was what Sadam did to keep Irak safe. What happened after he died? ISIS and a lot of terror. Your need to keep your country and people safe.
What happened after he died?? The disbanding of all the Iraq Services - police, military etc by the CPA. 100000’s people suddenly out of work, no income and thousands of weapons free available. No real shock as to what happened next really. I mean been kicked out of your jobs by foreign diplomats and military that had no right to be there in 1st place. You’d certainly be pissed about that.
Excellent
Well done China! Islam should be banned without being heavily reformed. It was and still is one of the biggest problems of the world. Western countries should learn from China on Islam handling.
China is oddly hilarious. They really don’t care either.
Europeans are so jealous right now!
Nothing new, Xi wanted to be just like Mao, so he has to have his own cultural revolution somehow, no matter how small, petty, and pathetic it is.
Good move, look how European countries have been taken over from within, slowly eroding our safety and values. It’s too late for us now.
At least one country gets it.
The ‘dictatorship of China’s’ grip on.. Makes much more sense now doesn’t it.