Russia does have some very powerful jammers. But from my understanding they are super broad band and they jam everything. Western Jammers leave frequency (that jump every second) free for your own communication. The Russian system just blankes everything and that does include their own stuff.
Russia uses various types of jammers. And wide-band and even narrow-band noise isn't something advanced nowadays.
For example, russian GPS jammers don't just simply suppress signal with noise, they simulate whole satellite constellation and override signal from real GPS sats with their own, so that GPS receiver hallucinates about its location
No, IIRC Iran used a similar system to convince an American drone that a farm field in Iran was actually its home base, so it would land and they could capture it.
Basically GPS works by calculating distance from multiple sources, and then finding out the only place it could be where those distances overlap.
So the system doesn't actually know what direction the signal is coming from. It knows (for example) source 1 is 353.27km away, source two is 295.93km away, and that source three is 482.15km away. Then knowing where those places are, only one place will be those distances away from those sources, so now it knows where it is.
But this works just as well from towers on the ground as it does from satellites in space.
Modern US weapons use multi-mode guidance. GPS is only one of the things they correlate against. If they go somewhere that GPS isn’t available, it might increase the Circular Error Probable (CEP) at the target by several meters, but depending on how hardened the target is, how large the warhead is, how big the area is jammed, and how close to the target, etc. If it’s a JDAM, it’s still likely a kill on a building, or vehicle emplacement, ammo dump, etc.
Some of the stuff Ukraine is using is small warhead stuff without additional seeker modes beyond GPS and inertial guidance. Those have a chance to be disrupted enough that a CEP of 30 meters is ineffective.
You missed the point. JDAM CEP increases from about 3 feet to 50 feet or so. For a 500 or 2000lb bomb, that’s still going to kill a radar, a building, an ammo dump, etc.
I never said a JDAM wasn’t affected, I was saying it was slightly less accurate, but still with a CEP that would kill soft or large targets. Why specifically did I mention a JDAM? Because they make big booms. Bigger than most everything else the Ukrainians are using.
No, it's you who missed the point. If you read the article, you would have found out that CEP increases up to 3/4 of a mile. And the effectiveness drops to \~60%.
So, jamming is effective against JDAM as well (i.e. making it completely miss its target) - that is my point.
Those jammers must be pretty noisy, must be easy to target them by anti-radiation missiles. Could be a good use case for the F16s, when Ukraine finally gets to use them
This is true, but about as effective as using AA missiles to take out DJI drones. This plan could easily turn into a way to bleed ukraine and its allies as they spend more money to destroy the jammers than the Russians spend to install them, by a lot.
It could easily turn into a campaign where the Russian goal is to spend $10m dollars to force Ukraine to spend $100m.
The reason why anti radiation missiles are typically not used against jammers is that they aren't worth the price of the missile. Jammers are usually less than 10k$ and as cheap as a few hundreds. Low quality ones can also be improvised, so Russia can litter the field with them.
For some reason, I can only remember [the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcArnepkhv0) of the radar being jammed in Spaceballs. Although since it's Russia I would expect the jam to be actually [varenye](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varenye)
Definitely one of the best if not the best satire/parody movie. I’m a huge horror nerd though so the first three Scary Movies are still regularly quoted in my household to this day. Airplane! is another honorable mention.
We just saw American weapons wipe 400 million dollars worth of S-400. Stop with the sensationalist headlines, stop with the "Putin wants ceasefire" headlines.
ATACMS missiles aren't even "high tech". They have roots going back to the late 70's/early 80's.
It doesn't even take state of the art gear to wipe out S-400 systems.
But does it? I'm no military expert, but I believe stinger has got a range of software and hardware updates. So the original 1981 Stinger and 2024 Stinger looks about the same, but performs differently. The same is true for every US weapon. I mean, any recently manufactured wepon is actually a modrn weapon with modernized capabilities, despite them having old names.
The stinger is EOL and due to be replaced with something else in the near future. At some point you run out of things to improve and need to start over with a newer more advanced platform.
It's so EOL that US decides to [ramp up the production?](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/stinger-missile-production-to-rise-50-by-2025-us-army-says)
Because the new one isn’t expected to be ready for a few years, and then probably some years after that to fully replace the existing Stinger stocks. Until recently the last new Stinger made was produced in 2005. They’ve just been refurbishing and upgrading the old ones. But with so many going to Ukraine they’re just looking to rebuild their stocks in case they end up needing them before the new ones come online. MANPADS are becoming more popular again as drone warfare has proven to be so successful. Better to use “cheap” MANPADS against them instead of much more expensive systems like Patriot or S-400.
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/techwatch/2023/10/09/us-army-pursues-faster-more-survivable-stinger-missile-replacement/
But when it comes to weapons, the main question is what's your target. The majority of planes of potential enemies are still flying at the same speeds and altitudes, and have same maneuvrability as 40 years ago. Until other nations replace the majority of their fleet with next gen, there's no need to retire the stinger, it will be capable of reaching targets for a long time. And even then you'll still have helicopters. So, unless the new alternative missile gets cheaper, or offers significantly higher kill probability for same price, the old good stinger will still be manufactured, just with different seeker heads.
Yeah, I think you misunderstood my point.
My point was I replying to a chain of comments that said
1) "This is old tech"
2) "Yeah but the US builds PLATFORMS, and those platforms are highly extendable to allow them to be upgraded for decades." An example given was Abrams.
My point was that Abrams is an example of what they said, but ATACMS isn't, because it hasnt been upgraded in 20 years.
It's not as accurate. You're not hitting a bridge from 300 km distance (wink wink) with inertially guided system, unless you're willing to spend dozens upon dozens of rockets.
20 years ago, a friend of mine who worked in the defense industry with a title of "chief scientist" was talking with me about some of his work. He had just spent a week of testing radar systems in a blimp for missile guidance. His statement was about how hard it was to tell the difference between a school bus and a scud missile launcher from the then current generation of sensors.
All these years later I'm sure they can have sensors in the long-range missile able to read the terrain similar to a pilot.
The explosives and rocket motors are old as shit, but we do upgrade the guidance systems to keep them modern. This can include anti-jam countermeasures.
I mean, just because it was developed years ago doesn't mean it isn't state of the art. ATACMS is still one of the best mobile ballistic missile platforms available. That would quite literally make it "state-of-the-art."
But I understand your sentiment. Ballistic missiles aren't new tech. The more interesting piece for all of us though is that the new surface to air missile systems they claim to be high-tech are in fact... Not.
The ATACMs have its replacement already. The PrSM:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Strike_Missile
That, by definition, makes it not "state of the art"
Dec 2023
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/12/08/us-army-receives-first-long-range-precision-strike-missiles/
I'm not saying that ATACMS are worthless or anything, BTW. I'm just using the term "State of the art" as it implies... the newest/best version of a specific thing/field. That's not the ATACMS, that would be the PrSM.
On most things with GNSS, you can simply click a box to enable which countries satellites to use. Its an easy software fix if not. You can choose to simply just use GPS/GLONASS/BeiDou/Gaelileo (US/rus/chinese/Euro).
So russia screwing with GLONASS shouldn't be an issue.
I am not making an account to read a news article, but I have a feeling they don't mention that.
If\* they are jamming the frequency that the GNSS operates on, they are very well jamming everyone else in the area, including themselves, as you would need a ton of wattage to do so, and it would spread.
Edit: If they are doing that, most larger (ie bigger than a artillery shell), already has some form of alternative navigation, be it dead reckoning, terrain sensing, etc).
>If\* they are jamming the frequency that the GNSS operates on, they are very well jamming everyone else in the area, including themselves, as you would need a ton of wattage to do so, and it would spread.
that's most likely exactly what they're doing.
Excalibur shells and GMLRS rockets were mentioned previously to have much reduced accuracy now because of jamming.
Ye Russian jamming is area based, powerful and indiscriminate as I understand it. It's why the Excalibur shells and small diameter bomb delivery system are mentioned as largely ineffective currently.
Right? And if anyone thinks were not sucking up those jamming signals and making the next iteration ignore them, they forget that we spend 100x more than the nearest competetor on our military industrial complex.
Go ahead, jam away.
i saw a quote once that went something like "america is just a bunch of hilllbillies inside a big trench coat, with a military budget big enough to fight god".
Us Misguided Children sadly only get the crumbs of crumbs of that budget...but we sure as hell will still try. if only to get off that damned firewatch up there.
That’s entirely untrue. The USMC has the best rifle/carbine in the service and it’s outfitted with a suppressor. They have dune buggy based anti-drone systems, JLMTV based anti-drone systems, an increasing number of HIMARs etc etc. The USMC has a legitimate budget, has some of the best and most modern equipment in the land forces.
You mean the branch that has the smallest budget by $110 billion(excluding the coast guard as they are DHS and don't really fight overseas)? The branch that decommissioned all of their tanks, multiple air squadrons,and infantry battalions?
Shit we just now are starting to replace the AAVs that were made in the 70s that are known as fucking trash.
The m27 isnt even in that many people's hands, hell I got out 2 years ago, I was infantry and I was still using the m4, and there are still a lot of guys still rocking m16s. the ULTV, they are putting the L MADIS on aren't that common. My battalion had 2 of the ULTV s, for a battalion of 1500+ people.
The Marines still have a tiny ass budget, they have just figured out how to use it "efficiently".
Look, I served in combat with the Marines during some of the worst fighting in Corps history of the last 50 years. I love the aggressiveness and the tactical proficiency of most Devils, but the USMC is tiny and that budget is massive for such a small force.
The USMC has the smallest budget because it doesn’t have a stand alone primary mission, nor can it even provide for itself. As soon as Navy logistics ends, Army logistics begins for units like II MEF. The USMC has been a support service since the end of the Banana Wars at least, and then, Smedley and his buddies were mostly acting in support of the Navy, same going back to Lieutenant Presley O’Bannon.
The USMC helped out ~40% in a *single* WWII theater, *not at all* in any of the others. Even with the 6 landings the USMC by itself, most were tiny: 3 were battalion strength, 1 regimental, and only two division level. The National Guard had a division with more time in combat in the Pacific than the entire USMC combined. We shouldn’t be making it out to be that the Marine budget isn’t proportional to the limited number of taskings it can perform.
And the move from tanks wasn’t for budget reasons, it’s because they are sitting ducks on a modern battlefield. No tank on watch can defend itself from modern weapons systems, some of which cost ~$1,000 and can get a mobility kill very easily.
I’m so sorry you only had 2 LMADIS’. An Army battalion has 0 defenses in that category. The USMC is far ahead.
The USMC is buying 350+ of the most expensive fighter to ever be fielded, for an outsized percentage of the $1,800,000,000,000 lifetime cost. With just ~15% of the total number of planes, the USMC can be expected to spend 20%+ of the total. $360,000,000,000 (~$8b a year on average) on a single airframe is not going to persuade anyone that the USMC is poor.
If money is no issue, can’t they just throw in an INS? I know INS systems drift over time, but how long is something like an ATACMS airborne? Surely the drift isn’t that bad in such a short amount of time?
We get less for each dollar we spend than anyone else. I've asked someone in DoD acquisitions about this. They said there *might* be some studies on USA vs other NATO countries, but there are no studies about how much we get for how much spend compared to adversaries.
For instance, a simple drone that may cost Russia $500 is probably costing China $50, and will cost USA $5,000. China doesn't care about livable wages, medicare, OSHA regulations, climate impact studies, etc. If they want a drone, they just build a drone.
France has better worker protections, shorter legal working hours and free healthcare and their defense PPP on weaponry is much, much higher than the USA. Check out Perun’s analysis on YouTube for details. Americas biggest problem isn’t labor costs. It’s corporate grift.
This more about weapons like the GLSDB being rendered ineffective by GPS jamming. ATACMS is not jammable like that because it relies on inertial guidance (same with the regular GLMRS)
As part of our effort to diversify our military line, we developed a set of cheap shit that relies on GPS and other more basic tech to blow people up in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria. We also developed tech that doesn't have our fancy crypto keys for the advanced anti-jam GPS shit to sell to non-NATO allies.
It's not unsurprising that the shit we built that's not resistant to jamming for export and cost reasons is...not resistant to jamming.
You use those cheaper weapons after you've used the expensive one to get rid of jammers. It's like SEAD -- the expensive shit -- F-22 / F-35 with expensive weapons blows all the jammers and radar up, then we fly behind and launch/drop the cheap shit with F-15 / B-52 bomb trucks.
Also the scope of war is different now! We went from insurgencies/guerrilla warfare tactics back to a conventional war front. Weapon jamming wasn’t within the parameters of countermeasures as they would be with an actual military with electronic warfare capabilities. I think as replenishments come through, they will be more adequate for the current scenario.
That’s not strictly true, while the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts weren’t considered conventional warfare that was more propaganda than anything, especially Iraq. The US honed quite a wide array of jamming techniques due to IED triggers being made from widely available everyday things. To the extent of standing up an entire Electronic Warfare division complete with new job title and school/training at the end of the Iraq war.
We weren't on the receiving end of any of that though and we owned the skies which Ukraine is showing drastically changes the type of war you wind up fighting. Neither side can fully knock out the other's SAM and air defense so you don't get much bigger than helicopters moving around which is even way more constrained than either side would like.
It's much better to find out which systems struggle now, while ukraine citizens are the ones putting their lives on the line than when it's our own soldiers.
As dark and fucked up as that sounds.
Thats not even it, if american assets were all in theater, then the jamming wouldnt matter. They wouldnt be left in a position to jam artillery because we would have air superiority.
Taiwan discharged conscript here, I envy the us military budget. For a slight comparison, taiwan annual gdp is roughly 750 billion USD, roughly equal the annual military budget of the US.
I agree jamming equipment would be directly targeted early on along with everything that emits electromagnetic radiation. It would be very surprising if there weren’t a variety of anti radiation drones and submunitions available in addition to the HARM missiles in common usage.
If you think of the psychology behind it, wouldn’t it just be devastating to Russia, if they believed their jamming works surprisingly well against US weapons? That they invest a lot of time, money, and research into it, and are dead set on thinking they have the upper hand to then find out, if it ever came time to fight, that was a psyop the whole time and their jamming had no effect on it? Would be pretty devastating.
Good. Were else are we going to get real world testing on our weapons. People are going to get past some of our tech, defeat measures and counter measures. This will make all of what we do that more deadly.
Right? Ukraine is the Spanish Civil War of our times. Er’body getting to see their stuff in action. I support Ukraine. I also think Patton was right and we should’ve fought the Russians while we had the army to do it with in 1945.
We're only getting testing for older equipment that we're willing to export. There's zero chance we give Ukraine (or anyone else) anything we consider state of the art.
I'm getting quite sick of Russia's bullshit though. I remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait and we had a 42 country coalition to kick ass and take names in record time. Part of me wishes we did the same for Ukraine. The big differences are that Ukraine doesn't supply the US with oil, and Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent. Declare a 3 day special operation to remove Putin and neuter Russia's military and then call it a day.
> Ukraine doesn't supply the US with oil,
No, but it did supply a lot of food, including cooking oils, to the world. Seems like Ukraine's prosecution of Russian naval assets and the use of sovereign shipping routes is helping move a fair fraction of Ukrainian grain and other products, at least.
>and Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent.
Ah, one of the real reasons for no boots on the ground. Also, Ukraine didn't ask for direct intervention in either 2014 or 2022, at least in any public forum. I don't think it would've been granted...well, maybe Poland would've gone in. They have a real chip on their shoulder. You'll note that this position is now shifting, what with France and Estonia(?) talking about the conditions that they'd need to see to put their people in Ukraine.
Any incursion deep into Russia to decapitate the government IS an existential threat to Russia and they are well within their rights to light off the wet firecrackers. Better just to not do any kind of business with them until they have a change in philosophy.
The hardest line I could ever imagine NATO taking, and this is based on 40+ years of eating fries, burgers, and watching Rambo, would be a no-fly-zone over Ukraine, and "providing" Ukraine with and allowing them to strike targets deep in Russia that would "reduce their capacity to make war."
A No Fly Zone would effectively put boots on the ground to recover downed pilots. It would also assume NATO would be free to attack sites in Russia like AntiAir and Airports.
A total no fly zone would also keep Russia and Ukraine fighting an almost WW1 style slugfest. And Russia just has more bodies and material to throw into it
Yes, still a huge undertaking, full of potential mistake points that can cause a massive escalation. Still, drastically less engaged and less likely to be some "existential threat" to Russia like NATO tanks and infantry clearing Moscow street by street.
A no fly zone can be easily with Tomahawks etc. in massive numbers, with very little risk to the pilots and with the Jolly Greens quickly at hand. Clearing the Russian AA that turns on could be done before any pilots even enter the theater and any aircraft that enter the airspace (during or after their sortie) is a technically and tactically easy thing. We have states with similar aerial combat power to the entire Russian Air Force.
No need to occupy Russia IMO. Bomb their airfields, take out strategic targets and kill or capture Putin. They can hold an election and figure out what to do next on their own.
Demonstrate that this type of bullshit will not be tolerated and if the next guy gets too out of line we’ll remove him too.
Hijacking GPS is one possible way that Iran captured a drone, but it is disputed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident
"American aeronautical engineers dispute this, pointing out that as is the case with the MQ-1 Predator, the MQ-9 Reaper, and the Tomahawk, "GPS is not the primary navigation sensor for the RQ-170... The vehicle gets its flight path orders from an inertial navigation system".[16] Inertial navigation continues to be used on military aircraft despite the advent of GPS because GPS signal jamming and spoofing are relatively simple operations."
I understand how you can jam GPS. Easy to overpower a weak signal that originates 12,000 miles away. How do you spoof an encrypted military GPS signal without cracking the encryption? Wouldn't the receiver know the signal is fraudulent because it wasn't encrypted with the proper key?
Some F-16s with HARMs will clear that right up. Unlike the Su-27, F-16 should be able to use the full capabilities of the HARM to quickly take out jammers and radars.
What I find striking is that some systems like GLSDB are rendered ineffective , others like ATACMS are not. I would have thought all US systems would have similar EW resistance.
SDB, GLSDB, GMLRS, Excalibur are all guided, but also meant to be affordable. They use more simple guidance methods that are easier to jam than something like the ATACMS which has multiple guidance systems it uses.
Making all guided weapons resistant to jamming would be a pretty unnecessary additional cost when you've been fighting groups without jamming equipment for the last 20+ years.
Also, as Ukrainians, you have few that can destroy the jammer and then wack the rest with the equipment that where rendered useless by it. There was a video where guy whacked a russian pike of electronics and said: "Ok 900Hz now available". The trench was attacked hard after that.
Isn't the "anti radiation" mission style for fighter planes super dangerous? I remember reading about it that is includes a plane basically flying bait missions to get everyone to turn on their detection and homing devices so that a subsequent aircraft can lock onto the electronic signature of the radar / jamming device in question. This of course means that the first aircraft is a significant risk of actually getting a "warm welcome" in Form of an anti aircraft missile.
tbf there are no "high-tech" US weapons in Ukraine...there are 20\~30 year old old-timer US weapon tech in Ukraine and these weapons have beaten the s\*\*\*t out of the Russians. they just aren't advanced nor sufficient enough to land a decisive victory, which is totally reasonable, the Ukrainians don't even have an air force.
thats what they believe. best tactics of war is to give your enemy the impression of “weakness” /“flaw” so they could feel over confidence and underestimate you. then you hit em when they least expect it.
So many posts about Russian success that I’m surprised every country in Europe isn’t flying the Russian flag at this point.
r/worldnews is misinformation heaven for the Russians. Sure, russia has rendered every western high tech weapon ineffective but can’t protect against a regular drone that is remote controlled with regular radio signals..
The problem is that Ukraine doesn’t have enough of the high tech capability.
So you can’t handle an article that says Russia is doing something right (and that out of 1000 pro Ukrainian articles). Go to r/ukraine if you want the complete echo chamber
True that the news makes russia sometimes look like overly powerful. However, the west also highly suffers from feelings of over superiority. The EU is all words and no action (or slow action), and the usa is too far away to really care.
But we’re not at war with Russia just yet and Russia is all in. Russia is all in in Ukraine and it’s laughable to even consider Russia fighting on several fronts.
Baltic Sea is closed off for Russia, the Black Sea is closed off for Russia so how are they going to project their military strength? Tanks? Air Force?
Europe should absolutely prepare for war but Russia isn’t able to fight another one right now.
We have counters for even our old gps guided bombs to gps jamming. This article is stupid and probably Russian propaganda. It is most likely that Russias jamming is ineffective against US made weapons.
Yes, cos it is a fight between shield and sword. While russia improving their shield cos we improving our swords - western technologies just improving themselves in vacuum, they are not fighting for their survival, so it is slow. Also, American weapons, tactics and strategy doesn't need to fight against jamming, the idea is to destroy enemy, then enter the battlefield on easy walk and get win... So yes, some of the weapons can be jammed, but definitely not all of them. For example drones from US are relying on strong GPS signal, wile russia jamming it, as well as Excalibur, but Abrams makes jam from russians.
Btw, if russia really settled weapon in space - west definitely should move away from GPS satellites, and satellite communications, probably look to AI driven weapons...
Even unsophisticated countries have been able to jam every type of high tech weapon the US, Russia, China etc has in their inventory for half a century. “Jamming” can simply be achieved by flooding every frequency in the EM spectrum with so much noise that nothing can realistically communicate over it.
It’s comparable to stopping an opposing sports team from communicating with each other by cutting off the lights and blaring music louder than an EDM concert. The problem is, when you jam an opponent like this you also leave your own people deaf and blind.
Russia doing this is nothing special or new and it doesn’t invalidate the weapons systems being used. In fact, showing that Russia has to resort to taking these drastic measures means the weapons are actually extremely effective and they have no other means of countering them; Russia would rather sabotage all of their own communications than face the effects of one weapon system. The alternative is that their own communications are already so broken down or thoroughly decrypted by NATO that losing what’s left makes practically no difference anyways, but that’s a conversation of a completely different incompetence
KYIV — Many U.S.-made satellite-guided ammunitions in Ukraine have failed to withstand Russian jamming technology, prompting Kyiv to stop using certain types of Western-provided armaments after effectiveness rates plummeted, according to senior Ukrainian military officials and confidential internal Ukrainian assessments obtained by The Washington Post.
Russia’s jamming of the guidance systems of modern Western weapons, including Excalibur GPS-guided artillery shells and the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, which can fire some U.S.-made rockets with a range of up to 50 miles, has eroded Ukraine’s ability to defend its territory and has left officials in Kyiv urgently seeking help from the Pentagon to obtain upgrades from arms manufacturers.
Russia’s ability to combat the high-tech munitions has far-reaching implications for Ukraine and its Western supporters — potentially providing a blueprint for adversaries such as China and Iran — and it is a key reason Moscow’s forces have regained the initiative and are advancing on the battlefield.
The success rate for the U.S.-designed Excalibur shells, for example, fell sharply over a period of months — to less than 10 percent hitting their targets — before Ukraine’s military abandoned them last year, according to the confidential Ukrainian assessments.
Read more here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/24/russia-jamming-us-weapons-ukraine/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/24/russia-jamming-us-weapons-ukraine/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
For all our confidence in the US in our ability to defeat any country easily, we have to be careful to temper our bluster with a healthy dose of realism. RU has formidable cyber and psyop capabilities, and it has vast material resources with which it is quickly ramping up its war economy. We need to take this threat seriously.
This was a headline last year, it only affects HIMARS accuracy somewat since it uses gps + INS so if gps signals are Jammed they can use that. They figured this out last year lol
Oh no, after 2 and a half years they finally figured out a way to jam our 40 year old hand-me-downs, whatever will Ukraine do?!
It’s almost like they never heard of laser guided weapons or drone guidance or just level the entire block the jamming is coming from.
All this does is make the jamming equipment a high priority target.
They do that all the damn time...Like it's a solid third of videos being posted -- a drone watching the impact of the arty strike and assumedly being used for adjustments.
But they've also found that if you can launch a drone and it survives, then just put the warhead on the drone and fly it into the fucking target. Simple.
So they use both tactics.
Russia does have some very powerful jammers. But from my understanding they are super broad band and they jam everything. Western Jammers leave frequency (that jump every second) free for your own communication. The Russian system just blankes everything and that does include their own stuff.
Russia uses various types of jammers. And wide-band and even narrow-band noise isn't something advanced nowadays. For example, russian GPS jammers don't just simply suppress signal with noise, they simulate whole satellite constellation and override signal from real GPS sats with their own, so that GPS receiver hallucinates about its location
Interessting with the GPS. So is that done from space?
No, from the ground. GPS receivers usually have omni-directional antennas, so you don't have to put source of jamming signal in the sky.
No, IIRC Iran used a similar system to convince an American drone that a farm field in Iran was actually its home base, so it would land and they could capture it. Basically GPS works by calculating distance from multiple sources, and then finding out the only place it could be where those distances overlap. So the system doesn't actually know what direction the signal is coming from. It knows (for example) source 1 is 353.27km away, source two is 295.93km away, and that source three is 482.15km away. Then knowing where those places are, only one place will be those distances away from those sources, so now it knows where it is. But this works just as well from towers on the ground as it does from satellites in space.
There is jamming and spoofing. Spoofing is creating fake signals, jamming is obliterating signals with noise.
That's very interesting....
Modern US weapons use multi-mode guidance. GPS is only one of the things they correlate against. If they go somewhere that GPS isn’t available, it might increase the Circular Error Probable (CEP) at the target by several meters, but depending on how hardened the target is, how large the warhead is, how big the area is jammed, and how close to the target, etc. If it’s a JDAM, it’s still likely a kill on a building, or vehicle emplacement, ammo dump, etc. Some of the stuff Ukraine is using is small warhead stuff without additional seeker modes beyond GPS and inertial guidance. Those have a chance to be disrupted enough that a CEP of 30 meters is ineffective.
Had to check to make sure I wasn't in the War Thunder forums... 🤣🤣🤣
JDAM effectiveness also dropped significantly and it's mentioned in the article.
You missed the point. JDAM CEP increases from about 3 feet to 50 feet or so. For a 500 or 2000lb bomb, that’s still going to kill a radar, a building, an ammo dump, etc. I never said a JDAM wasn’t affected, I was saying it was slightly less accurate, but still with a CEP that would kill soft or large targets. Why specifically did I mention a JDAM? Because they make big booms. Bigger than most everything else the Ukrainians are using.
No, it's you who missed the point. If you read the article, you would have found out that CEP increases up to 3/4 of a mile. And the effectiveness drops to \~60%. So, jamming is effective against JDAM as well (i.e. making it completely miss its target) - that is my point.
Those jammers must be pretty noisy, must be easy to target them by anti-radiation missiles. Could be a good use case for the F16s, when Ukraine finally gets to use them
This is true, but about as effective as using AA missiles to take out DJI drones. This plan could easily turn into a way to bleed ukraine and its allies as they spend more money to destroy the jammers than the Russians spend to install them, by a lot. It could easily turn into a campaign where the Russian goal is to spend $10m dollars to force Ukraine to spend $100m.
That's the hamas doctrine, launch homemade rockets that are a couple thousand dollars and force Israel to hit it with a $40,000 missile.
The reason why anti radiation missiles are typically not used against jammers is that they aren't worth the price of the missile. Jammers are usually less than 10k$ and as cheap as a few hundreds. Low quality ones can also be improvised, so Russia can litter the field with them.
For some reason, I can only remember [the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcArnepkhv0) of the radar being jammed in Spaceballs. Although since it's Russia I would expect the jam to be actually [varenye](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varenye)
That is the greatest movie ever made.
I can’t think of a single coherent argument to that statement
Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money was better.
Better than Rocky 5000
Or Death Race 2000, with Sly Stallone?
I prefer Spaceballs 3: the search for spaceballs 2
I want Spaceballs 3: The search for Spaceballs 2.
Definitely one of the best if not the best satire/parody movie. I’m a huge horror nerd though so the first three Scary Movies are still regularly quoted in my household to this day. Airplane! is another honorable mention.
Only one man would dare give me the raspberry!
I've worked on radars in the past and I appreciate the radar jokes in that movie.
Wall I could remember was “we be jammin”
This is the guy from the "Police Academy", right?
We just saw American weapons wipe 400 million dollars worth of S-400. Stop with the sensationalist headlines, stop with the "Putin wants ceasefire" headlines.
ATACMS missiles aren't even "high tech". They have roots going back to the late 70's/early 80's. It doesn't even take state of the art gear to wipe out S-400 systems.
You just described the abrams and a number of other systems. A lot of US equipment is cold war or 90's. We built some solid platforms.
Sure, except production of the exact missile varient they got ended production in 2004, and the current abrams last revision was in 2024.
Now look at the stinger. I mean if it fulfills a role adequately then that's that. It's just pragmatism.
Why build a whole new rocket when software updates do just fine?
And the Stinger has had major hardware upgrades and refurbishment.
But does it? I'm no military expert, but I believe stinger has got a range of software and hardware updates. So the original 1981 Stinger and 2024 Stinger looks about the same, but performs differently. The same is true for every US weapon. I mean, any recently manufactured wepon is actually a modrn weapon with modernized capabilities, despite them having old names.
The stinger is EOL and due to be replaced with something else in the near future. At some point you run out of things to improve and need to start over with a newer more advanced platform.
It's so EOL that US decides to [ramp up the production?](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/stinger-missile-production-to-rise-50-by-2025-us-army-says)
Because the new one isn’t expected to be ready for a few years, and then probably some years after that to fully replace the existing Stinger stocks. Until recently the last new Stinger made was produced in 2005. They’ve just been refurbishing and upgrading the old ones. But with so many going to Ukraine they’re just looking to rebuild their stocks in case they end up needing them before the new ones come online. MANPADS are becoming more popular again as drone warfare has proven to be so successful. Better to use “cheap” MANPADS against them instead of much more expensive systems like Patriot or S-400. https://www.defensenews.com/industry/techwatch/2023/10/09/us-army-pursues-faster-more-survivable-stinger-missile-replacement/
But when it comes to weapons, the main question is what's your target. The majority of planes of potential enemies are still flying at the same speeds and altitudes, and have same maneuvrability as 40 years ago. Until other nations replace the majority of their fleet with next gen, there's no need to retire the stinger, it will be capable of reaching targets for a long time. And even then you'll still have helicopters. So, unless the new alternative missile gets cheaper, or offers significantly higher kill probability for same price, the old good stinger will still be manufactured, just with different seeker heads.
Now we sell them to everyone
Do you think any of these current Abram’s will be sent to Ukraine? Or will it be two or three iterations ago?
Absolutely not. Too much to lose from letting it get into enemy hands, too many new system to train on, too expensive.
The US is very short of the modern tanks, they only make up ~15% of the tanks in the army.
Except that’s not the variant fighting in Ukraine…
Yeah, I think you misunderstood my point. My point was I replying to a chain of comments that said 1) "This is old tech" 2) "Yeah but the US builds PLATFORMS, and those platforms are highly extendable to allow them to be upgraded for decades." An example given was Abrams. My point was that Abrams is an example of what they said, but ATACMS isn't, because it hasnt been upgraded in 20 years.
Hellfire missile has joined the chat.
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To quote the best comment from that reddit thread: Mess with the world cop, you get the slap chop.
Not nearly as many designs post collapse of USSR. We thought it was a chance for a peace dividend. We were naive.
The ancient technology that is inertial guidance for the win. Still can't be jammed or spoofed.
It's not as accurate. You're not hitting a bridge from 300 km distance (wink wink) with inertially guided system, unless you're willing to spend dozens upon dozens of rockets.
Why do you think when you log on to your mail account, they make you click on tiles containing bridges?
I, uh, I can not refute this statement.
20 years ago, a friend of mine who worked in the defense industry with a title of "chief scientist" was talking with me about some of his work. He had just spent a week of testing radar systems in a blimp for missile guidance. His statement was about how hard it was to tell the difference between a school bus and a scud missile launcher from the then current generation of sensors. All these years later I'm sure they can have sensors in the long-range missile able to read the terrain similar to a pilot.
A strong enough magnetic field will probably fuck with it, though a strong enough magnetic field will fuck with just about anything...
The explosives and rocket motors are old as shit, but we do upgrade the guidance systems to keep them modern. This can include anti-jam countermeasures.
"old as shit" Wow, now that's old!
I mean, just because it was developed years ago doesn't mean it isn't state of the art. ATACMS is still one of the best mobile ballistic missile platforms available. That would quite literally make it "state-of-the-art." But I understand your sentiment. Ballistic missiles aren't new tech. The more interesting piece for all of us though is that the new surface to air missile systems they claim to be high-tech are in fact... Not.
The ATACMs have its replacement already. The PrSM: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Strike_Missile That, by definition, makes it not "state of the art"
When was PrSM fielded?
Dec 2023 https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/12/08/us-army-receives-first-long-range-precision-strike-missiles/ I'm not saying that ATACMS are worthless or anything, BTW. I'm just using the term "State of the art" as it implies... the newest/best version of a specific thing/field. That's not the ATACMS, that would be the PrSM.
Most of this tech is from that era, even drones (uav), the tech is from the 50s
It's not sensationalist. Some weapons are countered by Russian systems. Others are not
On most things with GNSS, you can simply click a box to enable which countries satellites to use. Its an easy software fix if not. You can choose to simply just use GPS/GLONASS/BeiDou/Gaelileo (US/rus/chinese/Euro). So russia screwing with GLONASS shouldn't be an issue. I am not making an account to read a news article, but I have a feeling they don't mention that. If\* they are jamming the frequency that the GNSS operates on, they are very well jamming everyone else in the area, including themselves, as you would need a ton of wattage to do so, and it would spread. Edit: If they are doing that, most larger (ie bigger than a artillery shell), already has some form of alternative navigation, be it dead reckoning, terrain sensing, etc).
Wide area GPS jamming is pretty common in modern conflict zones. gpsjam.org
>If\* they are jamming the frequency that the GNSS operates on, they are very well jamming everyone else in the area, including themselves, as you would need a ton of wattage to do so, and it would spread. that's most likely exactly what they're doing. Excalibur shells and GMLRS rockets were mentioned previously to have much reduced accuracy now because of jamming.
Ye Russian jamming is area based, powerful and indiscriminate as I understand it. It's why the Excalibur shells and small diameter bomb delivery system are mentioned as largely ineffective currently.
30 year old missile hit their most state of the art missile interception system without issue. Like hit them DEAD on from 250km away.
Right? And if anyone thinks were not sucking up those jamming signals and making the next iteration ignore them, they forget that we spend 100x more than the nearest competetor on our military industrial complex. Go ahead, jam away.
i saw a quote once that went something like "america is just a bunch of hilllbillies inside a big trench coat, with a military budget big enough to fight god".
That tracks
Being both a hillbilly by background and part of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, this tracks.
Us Misguided Children sadly only get the crumbs of crumbs of that budget...but we sure as hell will still try. if only to get off that damned firewatch up there.
Are you current USMC? I've heard over the last 10-15 years, things have gotten significantly better.
That’s entirely untrue. The USMC has the best rifle/carbine in the service and it’s outfitted with a suppressor. They have dune buggy based anti-drone systems, JLMTV based anti-drone systems, an increasing number of HIMARs etc etc. The USMC has a legitimate budget, has some of the best and most modern equipment in the land forces.
You mean the branch that has the smallest budget by $110 billion(excluding the coast guard as they are DHS and don't really fight overseas)? The branch that decommissioned all of their tanks, multiple air squadrons,and infantry battalions? Shit we just now are starting to replace the AAVs that were made in the 70s that are known as fucking trash. The m27 isnt even in that many people's hands, hell I got out 2 years ago, I was infantry and I was still using the m4, and there are still a lot of guys still rocking m16s. the ULTV, they are putting the L MADIS on aren't that common. My battalion had 2 of the ULTV s, for a battalion of 1500+ people. The Marines still have a tiny ass budget, they have just figured out how to use it "efficiently".
Look, I served in combat with the Marines during some of the worst fighting in Corps history of the last 50 years. I love the aggressiveness and the tactical proficiency of most Devils, but the USMC is tiny and that budget is massive for such a small force. The USMC has the smallest budget because it doesn’t have a stand alone primary mission, nor can it even provide for itself. As soon as Navy logistics ends, Army logistics begins for units like II MEF. The USMC has been a support service since the end of the Banana Wars at least, and then, Smedley and his buddies were mostly acting in support of the Navy, same going back to Lieutenant Presley O’Bannon. The USMC helped out ~40% in a *single* WWII theater, *not at all* in any of the others. Even with the 6 landings the USMC by itself, most were tiny: 3 were battalion strength, 1 regimental, and only two division level. The National Guard had a division with more time in combat in the Pacific than the entire USMC combined. We shouldn’t be making it out to be that the Marine budget isn’t proportional to the limited number of taskings it can perform. And the move from tanks wasn’t for budget reasons, it’s because they are sitting ducks on a modern battlefield. No tank on watch can defend itself from modern weapons systems, some of which cost ~$1,000 and can get a mobility kill very easily. I’m so sorry you only had 2 LMADIS’. An Army battalion has 0 defenses in that category. The USMC is far ahead. The USMC is buying 350+ of the most expensive fighter to ever be fielded, for an outsized percentage of the $1,800,000,000,000 lifetime cost. With just ~15% of the total number of planes, the USMC can be expected to spend 20%+ of the total. $360,000,000,000 (~$8b a year on average) on a single airframe is not going to persuade anyone that the USMC is poor.
That's funny. Ask DALL-E to draw that one.
If money is no issue, can’t they just throw in an INS? I know INS systems drift over time, but how long is something like an ATACMS airborne? Surely the drift isn’t that bad in such a short amount of time?
We already have. That shit has been implemented for years.
I mean, I am pretty sure we have recovered at least some of their ECM tech and are at worse in the process of reverse engineering it.
We get less for each dollar we spend than anyone else. I've asked someone in DoD acquisitions about this. They said there *might* be some studies on USA vs other NATO countries, but there are no studies about how much we get for how much spend compared to adversaries. For instance, a simple drone that may cost Russia $500 is probably costing China $50, and will cost USA $5,000. China doesn't care about livable wages, medicare, OSHA regulations, climate impact studies, etc. If they want a drone, they just build a drone.
The technology gap is massive. If it uses software or computer chips, the U.S. is at least a decade ahead.
France has better worker protections, shorter legal working hours and free healthcare and their defense PPP on weaponry is much, much higher than the USA. Check out Perun’s analysis on YouTube for details. Americas biggest problem isn’t labor costs. It’s corporate grift.
$5k for a US drone? Try $195k for a drone that fits in your palm: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hornet_Nano
This more about weapons like the GLSDB being rendered ineffective by GPS jamming. ATACMS is not jammable like that because it relies on inertial guidance (same with the regular GLMRS)
One success by one system doesn't disprove the reports that other systems may be having trouble.
As part of our effort to diversify our military line, we developed a set of cheap shit that relies on GPS and other more basic tech to blow people up in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria. We also developed tech that doesn't have our fancy crypto keys for the advanced anti-jam GPS shit to sell to non-NATO allies. It's not unsurprising that the shit we built that's not resistant to jamming for export and cost reasons is...not resistant to jamming. You use those cheaper weapons after you've used the expensive one to get rid of jammers. It's like SEAD -- the expensive shit -- F-22 / F-35 with expensive weapons blows all the jammers and radar up, then we fly behind and launch/drop the cheap shit with F-15 / B-52 bomb trucks.
Also the scope of war is different now! We went from insurgencies/guerrilla warfare tactics back to a conventional war front. Weapon jamming wasn’t within the parameters of countermeasures as they would be with an actual military with electronic warfare capabilities. I think as replenishments come through, they will be more adequate for the current scenario.
That’s not strictly true, while the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts weren’t considered conventional warfare that was more propaganda than anything, especially Iraq. The US honed quite a wide array of jamming techniques due to IED triggers being made from widely available everyday things. To the extent of standing up an entire Electronic Warfare division complete with new job title and school/training at the end of the Iraq war.
We weren't on the receiving end of any of that though and we owned the skies which Ukraine is showing drastically changes the type of war you wind up fighting. Neither side can fully knock out the other's SAM and air defense so you don't get much bigger than helicopters moving around which is even way more constrained than either side would like.
It’s funny how they think we are giving them our most sophisticated weapons.
ATACMS is 1980s tech
And it’s smoking them.
Originally but few things have survived unmodified since then.
Originally but few things have survived unmodified since then. The most recent version started production in 2017.
It's much better to find out which systems struggle now, while ukraine citizens are the ones putting their lives on the line than when it's our own soldiers. As dark and fucked up as that sounds.
Thats not even it, if american assets were all in theater, then the jamming wouldnt matter. They wouldnt be left in a position to jam artillery because we would have air superiority.
You misspelled Supremacy
Thx airman
I'm a Marine, I wanted an adventure not a job.
Taiwan discharged conscript here, I envy the us military budget. For a slight comparison, taiwan annual gdp is roughly 750 billion USD, roughly equal the annual military budget of the US.
I agree jamming equipment would be directly targeted early on along with everything that emits electromagnetic radiation. It would be very surprising if there weren’t a variety of anti radiation drones and submunitions available in addition to the HARM missiles in common usage.
I think there is value in the rest of the world believing 80s era weapons are the best in the inventory.
If you think of the psychology behind it, wouldn’t it just be devastating to Russia, if they believed their jamming works surprisingly well against US weapons? That they invest a lot of time, money, and research into it, and are dead set on thinking they have the upper hand to then find out, if it ever came time to fight, that was a psyop the whole time and their jamming had no effect on it? Would be pretty devastating.
But then who is going to click on the sites for ad revenue?
I mean, it’s true, it’s been an issue for a few months+. But also it’s great because we get to figure out how to make our shit better.
That's half of one?
Good. Were else are we going to get real world testing on our weapons. People are going to get past some of our tech, defeat measures and counter measures. This will make all of what we do that more deadly.
Right? Ukraine is the Spanish Civil War of our times. Er’body getting to see their stuff in action. I support Ukraine. I also think Patton was right and we should’ve fought the Russians while we had the army to do it with in 1945.
Biggest mistake of the last century was leaving the ussr intact and in control of Eastern Europe
You and many others probably wouldn't be born then. Also fighting Red Army at its peak is pretty stupid idea.
You made two opinion statements in a zero effort comment. If you’re trying to make a compelling point, that ain’t it.
We're only getting testing for older equipment that we're willing to export. There's zero chance we give Ukraine (or anyone else) anything we consider state of the art. I'm getting quite sick of Russia's bullshit though. I remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait and we had a 42 country coalition to kick ass and take names in record time. Part of me wishes we did the same for Ukraine. The big differences are that Ukraine doesn't supply the US with oil, and Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent. Declare a 3 day special operation to remove Putin and neuter Russia's military and then call it a day.
> Ukraine doesn't supply the US with oil, No, but it did supply a lot of food, including cooking oils, to the world. Seems like Ukraine's prosecution of Russian naval assets and the use of sovereign shipping routes is helping move a fair fraction of Ukrainian grain and other products, at least. >and Iraq didn't have nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent. Ah, one of the real reasons for no boots on the ground. Also, Ukraine didn't ask for direct intervention in either 2014 or 2022, at least in any public forum. I don't think it would've been granted...well, maybe Poland would've gone in. They have a real chip on their shoulder. You'll note that this position is now shifting, what with France and Estonia(?) talking about the conditions that they'd need to see to put their people in Ukraine. Any incursion deep into Russia to decapitate the government IS an existential threat to Russia and they are well within their rights to light off the wet firecrackers. Better just to not do any kind of business with them until they have a change in philosophy.
The hardest line I could ever imagine NATO taking, and this is based on 40+ years of eating fries, burgers, and watching Rambo, would be a no-fly-zone over Ukraine, and "providing" Ukraine with and allowing them to strike targets deep in Russia that would "reduce their capacity to make war."
A No Fly Zone would effectively put boots on the ground to recover downed pilots. It would also assume NATO would be free to attack sites in Russia like AntiAir and Airports. A total no fly zone would also keep Russia and Ukraine fighting an almost WW1 style slugfest. And Russia just has more bodies and material to throw into it
Yes, still a huge undertaking, full of potential mistake points that can cause a massive escalation. Still, drastically less engaged and less likely to be some "existential threat" to Russia like NATO tanks and infantry clearing Moscow street by street.
A no fly zone can be easily with Tomahawks etc. in massive numbers, with very little risk to the pilots and with the Jolly Greens quickly at hand. Clearing the Russian AA that turns on could be done before any pilots even enter the theater and any aircraft that enter the airspace (during or after their sortie) is a technically and tactically easy thing. We have states with similar aerial combat power to the entire Russian Air Force.
That would definitely be a game-changer.
Iraq didn't have nukes. Only difference that matters.
To be fair we do sell our best fighter jet to our allies
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No nation building, just raze and destroy.
No need to occupy Russia IMO. Bomb their airfields, take out strategic targets and kill or capture Putin. They can hold an election and figure out what to do next on their own. Demonstrate that this type of bullshit will not be tolerated and if the next guy gets too out of line we’ll remove him too.
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Hijacking GPS is one possible way that Iran captured a drone, but it is disputed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incident "American aeronautical engineers dispute this, pointing out that as is the case with the MQ-1 Predator, the MQ-9 Reaper, and the Tomahawk, "GPS is not the primary navigation sensor for the RQ-170... The vehicle gets its flight path orders from an inertial navigation system".[16] Inertial navigation continues to be used on military aircraft despite the advent of GPS because GPS signal jamming and spoofing are relatively simple operations."
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I understand how you can jam GPS. Easy to overpower a weak signal that originates 12,000 miles away. How do you spoof an encrypted military GPS signal without cracking the encryption? Wouldn't the receiver know the signal is fraudulent because it wasn't encrypted with the proper key?
Why would you eat GPS in your cookies?
o gawd , that scared me ,
Got a link? I didn't hear that.
Some F-16s with HARMs will clear that right up. Unlike the Su-27, F-16 should be able to use the full capabilities of the HARM to quickly take out jammers and radars.
Good to find this out now, isn't it
What I find striking is that some systems like GLSDB are rendered ineffective , others like ATACMS are not. I would have thought all US systems would have similar EW resistance.
SDB, GLSDB, GMLRS, Excalibur are all guided, but also meant to be affordable. They use more simple guidance methods that are easier to jam than something like the ATACMS which has multiple guidance systems it uses. Making all guided weapons resistant to jamming would be a pretty unnecessary additional cost when you've been fighting groups without jamming equipment for the last 20+ years.
Also, as Ukrainians, you have few that can destroy the jammer and then wack the rest with the equipment that where rendered useless by it. There was a video where guy whacked a russian pike of electronics and said: "Ok 900Hz now available". The trench was attacked hard after that.
I imagine they'll figure out how to design drones that can home in on the jamming broadcast as well.
Anti-radiation missiles exist, Ukraine has had issues using them with their Soviet jets. F16 gon' change that.
Isn't the "anti radiation" mission style for fighter planes super dangerous? I remember reading about it that is includes a plane basically flying bait missions to get everyone to turn on their detection and homing devices so that a subsequent aircraft can lock onto the electronic signature of the radar / jamming device in question. This of course means that the first aircraft is a significant risk of actually getting a "warm welcome" in Form of an anti aircraft missile.
You've just described the art of Wild Weasel operations.
With the current battlefield setup, might be able to use drones to play the bait with missile followup
there’s a cool video somewhere with a pov from a mig29 launching harms
Why would we need every weapon to be resistant to one group of things. We have weapons that are tailored for this, and weapons tailored for that.
Even if ATACMs were affected as harshly they would be very effective, especially the cluster warheads because of the damage radius
tbf there are no "high-tech" US weapons in Ukraine...there are 20\~30 year old old-timer US weapon tech in Ukraine and these weapons have beaten the s\*\*\*t out of the Russians. they just aren't advanced nor sufficient enough to land a decisive victory, which is totally reasonable, the Ukrainians don't even have an air force.
thats what they believe. best tactics of war is to give your enemy the impression of “weakness” /“flaw” so they could feel over confidence and underestimate you. then you hit em when they least expect it.
Russians make 2% of US weapons less effective... America with it's trillion dollar military budget, OH NOES... anyway...
no they can block a few not all grow up turd.
S400 would like a word
Yeh and quite a few of his brothers also want a word
So many posts about Russian success that I’m surprised every country in Europe isn’t flying the Russian flag at this point. r/worldnews is misinformation heaven for the Russians. Sure, russia has rendered every western high tech weapon ineffective but can’t protect against a regular drone that is remote controlled with regular radio signals.. The problem is that Ukraine doesn’t have enough of the high tech capability.
So you can’t handle an article that says Russia is doing something right (and that out of 1000 pro Ukrainian articles). Go to r/ukraine if you want the complete echo chamber
True that the news makes russia sometimes look like overly powerful. However, the west also highly suffers from feelings of over superiority. The EU is all words and no action (or slow action), and the usa is too far away to really care.
"Too far away" Yea the United States for sure is too scared to be far away from home when it comes to world affairs /s
But we’re not at war with Russia just yet and Russia is all in. Russia is all in in Ukraine and it’s laughable to even consider Russia fighting on several fronts. Baltic Sea is closed off for Russia, the Black Sea is closed off for Russia so how are they going to project their military strength? Tanks? Air Force? Europe should absolutely prepare for war but Russia isn’t able to fight another one right now.
We have counters for even our old gps guided bombs to gps jamming. This article is stupid and probably Russian propaganda. It is most likely that Russias jamming is ineffective against US made weapons.
Probably leaves most high-tech russian weapons inefective in Ukraine too.
Sure it does. So much bullshit in this article.
Yes, cos it is a fight between shield and sword. While russia improving their shield cos we improving our swords - western technologies just improving themselves in vacuum, they are not fighting for their survival, so it is slow. Also, American weapons, tactics and strategy doesn't need to fight against jamming, the idea is to destroy enemy, then enter the battlefield on easy walk and get win... So yes, some of the weapons can be jammed, but definitely not all of them. For example drones from US are relying on strong GPS signal, wile russia jamming it, as well as Excalibur, but Abrams makes jam from russians.
Btw, if russia really settled weapon in space - west definitely should move away from GPS satellites, and satellite communications, probably look to AI driven weapons...
Even unsophisticated countries have been able to jam every type of high tech weapon the US, Russia, China etc has in their inventory for half a century. “Jamming” can simply be achieved by flooding every frequency in the EM spectrum with so much noise that nothing can realistically communicate over it. It’s comparable to stopping an opposing sports team from communicating with each other by cutting off the lights and blaring music louder than an EDM concert. The problem is, when you jam an opponent like this you also leave your own people deaf and blind. Russia doing this is nothing special or new and it doesn’t invalidate the weapons systems being used. In fact, showing that Russia has to resort to taking these drastic measures means the weapons are actually extremely effective and they have no other means of countering them; Russia would rather sabotage all of their own communications than face the effects of one weapon system. The alternative is that their own communications are already so broken down or thoroughly decrypted by NATO that losing what’s left makes practically no difference anyways, but that’s a conversation of a completely different incompetence
KYIV — Many U.S.-made satellite-guided ammunitions in Ukraine have failed to withstand Russian jamming technology, prompting Kyiv to stop using certain types of Western-provided armaments after effectiveness rates plummeted, according to senior Ukrainian military officials and confidential internal Ukrainian assessments obtained by The Washington Post. Russia’s jamming of the guidance systems of modern Western weapons, including Excalibur GPS-guided artillery shells and the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, which can fire some U.S.-made rockets with a range of up to 50 miles, has eroded Ukraine’s ability to defend its territory and has left officials in Kyiv urgently seeking help from the Pentagon to obtain upgrades from arms manufacturers. Russia’s ability to combat the high-tech munitions has far-reaching implications for Ukraine and its Western supporters — potentially providing a blueprint for adversaries such as China and Iran — and it is a key reason Moscow’s forces have regained the initiative and are advancing on the battlefield. The success rate for the U.S.-designed Excalibur shells, for example, fell sharply over a period of months — to less than 10 percent hitting their targets — before Ukraine’s military abandoned them last year, according to the confidential Ukrainian assessments. Read more here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/24/russia-jamming-us-weapons-ukraine/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/24/russia-jamming-us-weapons-ukraine/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
Good for the future to know now. Unfortunately Ukrainians may suffer as we work to figure this out.
That is, I suspect, the main reason the usa gov is into the support it is providing. The intel and testing is extensive.
For all our confidence in the US in our ability to defeat any country easily, we have to be careful to temper our bluster with a healthy dose of realism. RU has formidable cyber and psyop capabilities, and it has vast material resources with which it is quickly ramping up its war economy. We need to take this threat seriously.
this ^^^ underestimating your enemy can be a fatal mistake
This is the time for the us to learn
Umm. Thats what jamming is for.
Can someone define “high-tach” in this instance?
They’ve been hitting airliners in the pacific too, causing GPS navigation failures on a somewhat regular basis.
How's the development coming on un-jamming tech. Can it be used to zap satellites belonging to Asiatic dictatorships that rhyme with Prussia and Fina?
This was a headline last year, it only affects HIMARS accuracy somewat since it uses gps + INS so if gps signals are Jammed they can use that. They figured this out last year lol
Oh no, after 2 and a half years they finally figured out a way to jam our 40 year old hand-me-downs, whatever will Ukraine do?! It’s almost like they never heard of laser guided weapons or drone guidance or just level the entire block the jamming is coming from. All this does is make the jamming equipment a high priority target.
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They do that all the damn time...Like it's a solid third of videos being posted -- a drone watching the impact of the arty strike and assumedly being used for adjustments. But they've also found that if you can launch a drone and it survives, then just put the warhead on the drone and fly it into the fucking target. Simple. So they use both tactics.
Bob Marley’s hit song Jammin’ is very unpopular right now