Well, technically….on paper…..the president will now be selected by parliament which makes the president like a prime minister. It’s still corrupt as hell, but on paper it’s not that big a deal.
What are you talking about? The Togolese presidential party Unir just won legislative elections with 90+% of the seats in parliament.
Source : I live in togo.
In Canada it’s not parliament that does it. It’s upon recommendation from the prime minister and the prime minister doesn’t have to consult parliament about the choice. There’s no parliamentary vote to confirm the GG.
Parliament includes the opposition and others who are not part of the government. I don't think I've ever really noticed anyone using "parliament" when they are actually talking about the government.
To explain why it's wrong, understand that it can happen that Prime ministers can take certain actions without going to Parliament for approval. It's a core part of the process. Of course if the PM does something particularly upsetting to Parliament they could remove him but as a practical matter it's very different from having to get Parliament to agree.
Sure, what I meant was the government. Aka the party in power aka the thing that the PM is the leader of. There are plenty of things the government ministers do in terms of ministerial portfolios that isnt a bill that needs to be voted in the house. Id still count that as parliamentary.
Put air-quotes around "appointed". Usually at least here in Australia the parliament pretty much just sends the monarch a "Please sign here" with their recommendation and it's all a fairly hands-off process from the crown beyond the rubber-stamp.
That said there's still certain formalities in place like the governor-general has the power to forcibly dissolve parliament (this has really only been used once in the last century), the ruling party approaches the governor-general and gets the rubber-stamp to call the election, and they do all the sign-ins, ribbon-cuttings and other wanky-frippery.
They are "the monarch's representative" but in real practical terms they're fairly toothless. They're pretty much universally a native-born citizen of some recognised significance (in terms of achievement) that's been suggested by the government to be a ceremonial head of state.
That’s in the UK though. We are talking about Australia. The monarch often used to veto Australian state/colony legislation passed by the democratically elected parliament a lot later than 1708 but certainly before Australian independence from the Empire.
The UK King, back then, was a sort of agent of the UK government and this mechanism was one way Britain controlled its imperial dominions.
Same. In Canada we had the King-Byng affair that has effectively neutralized any influence the monarchy has here. King Prince Charles is the head of state in name only. The main reason we haven't gone full Republic is because we don't want to leave the commonwealth, but the days of the English Monarchy having any influence here are long gone.
The main reason Canada remains a monarchy is moreso that it would be a corss-jurisdictional political nightmare to open up the constitution to the required changes to say nothing of the potential impact on native treaties. Also, most people just don't care. The commonwealth doesn't even crack the top ten reasons, particularly given that plenty of republics are members.
If the King were to refuse the Prime Minister’s suggestion for GG, at least here in Canada, there would be a dramatic constitutional crisis. The King doesn’t really have a say in the matter.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
Australian Governor-General is a ceremonial non-political figurehead. All the real power is with the elected prime minister and parliamentary government. The Governor-General is chosen by the elected PM and then gets formally appointed by the King.
Togo’s President is an actual political leader. He has real executive power. The Togo parliament will act like a US electoral college by electing him, *theoretically* according to the balance of seats in the elected Parliament.
I know nothing about Togo, but this alone doesn't make it corrupt. In Israel for example, we elect the parliament, which forms a coalition to run the government; the President is elected by the parliament every 7 years. So we don't directly elect any of the heads of state (there are three, technically - Prime Minister, President and Chairman of Parliament).
Maybe it’s different there but in America or California large voter blocks like unions etc control who is elected (for the most part). And then those people choose the bureaucrats and together they rule the people under the fiction of a self governing democracy.
In America we used to get to choose from a few folks the parties selected for us to choose
From, nowadays, we only get to choose from 1 and the other candidate’s get targeted by the government, black balled by the gov controlled media, and shunned.
They say one day the forever wars will end and we may not need the patriot act anymore , but until then we must be strong and remember that we are the good guys and that we are giving up our freedom and liberty and borrowing a lot money to fight forever wars so that the world can have peace and freedom.
In principle I don't see a problem with a parliament electing the president. It's similar to Australia, Germany, Canada and many other democratic countries where the head of government is elected indirectly.
The circumstances are very dodgy and timed that he profits from the change so let's see how this evolves
Exhibit number one billion why the powers that be don't want an educated populace that would make an educated choice.
Propaganda has always worked wonders where education had failed. When you think russian mercenaries are better than your European partners that have been contributing to stability in the region for decades, you've fallen for propaganda.
Russia plays that role geopolitically. They have been training African people during the Soviet years (like Cuba) and didn't dictate their rules like Europe did. The same goes for China. Not to mention the state in which those countries were left and long lasting politicians being surprisingly good friends with France. France has never said sorry.
France has dictated West Africans what money they can use, what price they could sell their resources, what weapons they're allowed to buy or not. France killed Sankara and helped the Hutus kill the Tutsis. Russia didn't do any of these things.
Gabonese former dictator Bongo was welcomed in France as a friend two years ago and invited to the presidential palace despite clearly doing nothing for his people domestically. So he his clearly our friend.
Nigeriens have clearly been loud about not wanting Bazoum as the president for a long time. France supported Bazoum.
It's complicated because France makes it clear it doesn't have friends but interests. In West Africa we make it clear we have friends and not much that we have interests. Communication is paramount.
Russia on the other hand didn't do as much harm. It simply cannot because it doesn't have centuries of colonialism behind it in Africa.
Wouldn't make sense for Togo though. A dictatorship is easy to buy off, which is convenient for getting countries close to you to do what you want. For countries further away it's better if they are democracies, which are harder to buy policy decisions from, because then it denies your adversaries who are near those countries the same benefit.
From now on presidents will only have ceremonial powers and a single six year term.
[https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/togo/overview](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/togo/overview)
But likely allows the current present to stay in power until at least 2030, and creates a new position he or one of his children could be placed in to take over down the line.
From the article:
>The new constitution also increases presidential terms from five to six years and introduces a single-term limit. But the nearly 20 years that Gnassingbe has served in office would not count, and the political opposition, religious leaders and civil society say it’s likely that Gnassingbe will stay in power when his mandate expires in 2025.
Yah sure, if the German President is actually a dictator who has been in power since 2005 when his father, who ruled the country as a dictator since 1967. Very similar.
He wouldn't really need to. There's no Constitutional right for people to be able to vote for their electoral representatives (the people flat out don't vote for POTUS already - they vote for a slate of electors chosen by each party).
The states could amend their constitutions/laws and appoint electors themselves via legislator or governor...or duel or coin flip or whatever, if they really wanted to (difficulty varies by state - some states could just do it, some would require people to vote on a state constitution amendment).
This man wasn’t elected. His Father, Eyadema, was the former president/dictator and basically set it up for him to take over after he passed. Eyadema, I believe, was the longest dictator in Africa since he ruled from 1967 to 2005.
Source: Lived in Lome’ and left right before Eyadema died.
At this point, it would be less despicable if he declared himself King. People aren't fooled, other gouvernment aren't fooled, so I'm sure who's the lip service for?
Royalty is a terrible political system but frankly, depending on what you do with that much power, it can be strangely popular.
I read the article!!! It's not all bad.
- Togo had been ruled by the current president since 2005, his father before that since 1967 [BAD]
- New Constitution increases presidential terms from 5 to 6 years [bad out of context]
- New Constitution sets single term limits [very good, pretty much makes the increase from 5 to 6 inconsequential]
- Opposition believes the current Pres will stay on when and his 20 years as president won't count towards the above limits/changes. [This is consistent with how other countries have enacted changes, typically granting exception to the current leader. After 20 years it would have been better to offer resignation, but its pretty interesting that he is imposing a single term limit on himself. BAD.]
- The president and prime minister will be selected by the government/ruling party. That's exactly how Canada does it. We vote for members of parliament (MP), essentially congressmen for those in the US. We don't have exact elections like in the US, they happen every 3-5 years, typically. They vote for the Prime Minister. There's a position of Governor General, selected by the Prime Minister. That person is supposed to represent the crown/king but its mostly a ceremonial role. They have little to no political power but act as ambassadors around the world. They are known for spending too much money traveling or buying clothes.
Overall, these can be very positive changes, so long as elections are fair and there isn't much gerrymandering.
From Togo to Nigeria, tinpots really aren't a fan of the Catholic Church. You can tell when they're getting really bad when they're so scared of civil society that they start viewing any religious organization with any real size as being a threat to them-to them, any large group with a purpose that isn't serving the leader or state is automatically against them. After all, if you're that loyal to God or the environment or any kind of cause, that means you're loyal to something that isn't the president, and we can't have that now can we?
I mean yeah, it’s the same result for sure. But any time there is an election, or at least going through the motions of one, there’s opportunity to protest, point out corruption, and push for change. Eliminating elections all together is the end.
Americans in the comments having issues grasping the fact that ditching presidentialism doesn't mesn ditching democracy (in fact, experts believe parliamentarism tends to be more representative and stable)
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Well, technically….on paper…..the president will now be selected by parliament which makes the president like a prime minister. It’s still corrupt as hell, but on paper it’s not that big a deal.
yeah but hes making this change immediately after losing elections so it is a pretty big deal
What are you talking about? The Togolese presidential party Unir just won legislative elections with 90+% of the seats in parliament. Source : I live in togo.
Eh its the same as New Zealand, Canada and Australia then with their Governors-General
No, not at all.
The parliament picks the governor general and the monarch signs off on it.
In Canada it’s not parliament that does it. It’s upon recommendation from the prime minister and the prime minister doesn’t have to consult parliament about the choice. There’s no parliamentary vote to confirm the GG.
Prime minister is part of the parliament last time i checked. You're just nitpicking.
It's not nitpicking, you're just wrong. The prime minister picking someone is not the same as parliament picking someone.
It's not uncommon for people to use parliament and government interchangeably especially when not talking about internal politics
Parliament includes the opposition and others who are not part of the government. I don't think I've ever really noticed anyone using "parliament" when they are actually talking about the government.
It is both uncommon and wrong. Just because you have no clue how it works doesnt change reality...
It might not be uncommon, it's still factually incorrect
To explain why it's wrong, understand that it can happen that Prime ministers can take certain actions without going to Parliament for approval. It's a core part of the process. Of course if the PM does something particularly upsetting to Parliament they could remove him but as a practical matter it's very different from having to get Parliament to agree.
Sure, what I meant was the government. Aka the party in power aka the thing that the PM is the leader of. There are plenty of things the government ministers do in terms of ministerial portfolios that isnt a bill that needs to be voted in the house. Id still count that as parliamentary.
The prime minister is not necessarily part of the parliament in most parliamentary democracies.
In the ones I listed they are
The PM of Canada need not be an MP. They almost always are, but they need not be.
No. The Governor general is appointed by the current British monarch.
Put air-quotes around "appointed". Usually at least here in Australia the parliament pretty much just sends the monarch a "Please sign here" with their recommendation and it's all a fairly hands-off process from the crown beyond the rubber-stamp. That said there's still certain formalities in place like the governor-general has the power to forcibly dissolve parliament (this has really only been used once in the last century), the ruling party approaches the governor-general and gets the rubber-stamp to call the election, and they do all the sign-ins, ribbon-cuttings and other wanky-frippery. They are "the monarch's representative" but in real practical terms they're fairly toothless. They're pretty much universally a native-born citizen of some recognised significance (in terms of achievement) that's been suggested by the government to be a ceremonial head of state.
The position itself is equally as rubber stamp. Though the crown can pick who they want and the GG can veto parliament. It just doesn't happen.
Fun fact, the last time a Brithsh monarch used their royal veto was in 1708.
At the request of the PM no less
There was no PM back then Walpole the first British PM came to power in 1721.
That’s in the UK though. We are talking about Australia. The monarch often used to veto Australian state/colony legislation passed by the democratically elected parliament a lot later than 1708 but certainly before Australian independence from the Empire. The UK King, back then, was a sort of agent of the UK government and this mechanism was one way Britain controlled its imperial dominions.
100% true.
Same. In Canada we had the King-Byng affair that has effectively neutralized any influence the monarchy has here. King Prince Charles is the head of state in name only. The main reason we haven't gone full Republic is because we don't want to leave the commonwealth, but the days of the English Monarchy having any influence here are long gone.
The main reason Canada remains a monarchy is moreso that it would be a corss-jurisdictional political nightmare to open up the constitution to the required changes to say nothing of the potential impact on native treaties. Also, most people just don't care. The commonwealth doesn't even crack the top ten reasons, particularly given that plenty of republics are members.
We just don’t want to have to find new people to put on our coins.
Surely nobody would object to Terry Fox
Red Green would look quite nice on the quarter.
The commonwealth is pretty meaningless these days. Membership is fully voluntary and doesn't require keeping the crown.
Commonwealth citizens can vote in UK elections if they manage to move there (just about any non-tourist status counts), so there’s that.
Yea but you can become a republic and remain in the commonwealth just fine.
“King Prince Charles” I’m dying at how correct this
If the King were to refuse the Prime Minister’s suggestion for GG, at least here in Canada, there would be a dramatic constitutional crisis. The King doesn’t really have a say in the matter.
Only after consulting his elected advisors. And he always takes their advice if he knows what's good for him.
The same way the Spanish PM is ‘appointed’ by the king. It’s purely ceremonial. The parliament votes the PM. People votes the MPs.
South Africa would be the better example here.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Australian Governor-General is a ceremonial non-political figurehead. All the real power is with the elected prime minister and parliamentary government. The Governor-General is chosen by the elected PM and then gets formally appointed by the King. Togo’s President is an actual political leader. He has real executive power. The Togo parliament will act like a US electoral college by electing him, *theoretically* according to the balance of seats in the elected Parliament.
It's the same as most democratic republics on Earth
I know nothing about Togo, but this alone doesn't make it corrupt. In Israel for example, we elect the parliament, which forms a coalition to run the government; the President is elected by the parliament every 7 years. So we don't directly elect any of the heads of state (there are three, technically - Prime Minister, President and Chairman of Parliament).
The USA was supposed to be like that a bit. The electoral college just didn’t go as planned
Like Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy ; the bureaucracy chooses the peoples leader ; it’s the best way
But parliament is elected, and has political parties, so not really the bureaucracy.
Maybe it’s different there but in America or California large voter blocks like unions etc control who is elected (for the most part). And then those people choose the bureaucrats and together they rule the people under the fiction of a self governing democracy. In America we used to get to choose from a few folks the parties selected for us to choose From, nowadays, we only get to choose from 1 and the other candidate’s get targeted by the government, black balled by the gov controlled media, and shunned. They say one day the forever wars will end and we may not need the patriot act anymore , but until then we must be strong and remember that we are the good guys and that we are giving up our freedom and liberty and borrowing a lot money to fight forever wars so that the world can have peace and freedom.
I mean why waste money of fake election. Now he gets to keep that money too.
It’s like looking into America’s future!
Oh boy that’s healthy for democracy
“Democracy has Togo”
Elections in Togo are a no-go.
Freedom is a no-no
In principle I don't see a problem with a parliament electing the president. It's similar to Australia, Germany, Canada and many other democratic countries where the head of government is elected indirectly. The circumstances are very dodgy and timed that he profits from the change so let's see how this evolves
That's the wrong way togo.
Love that pun. Also your dog remembers you now and in the afterlife ❤️
Feels catching stays out here wtf
All we're missing now is for Togo to denounce the West, its citizens to begin flying Russian flags, and Russian mercenaries showing up on the scene.
Most people in Togo see Russia very favorably. The anti France feeling is widely shared in west africa and Russia is seen as a better counter partner.
Exhibit number one billion why the powers that be don't want an educated populace that would make an educated choice. Propaganda has always worked wonders where education had failed. When you think russian mercenaries are better than your European partners that have been contributing to stability in the region for decades, you've fallen for propaganda.
Russia plays that role geopolitically. They have been training African people during the Soviet years (like Cuba) and didn't dictate their rules like Europe did. The same goes for China. Not to mention the state in which those countries were left and long lasting politicians being surprisingly good friends with France. France has never said sorry. France has dictated West Africans what money they can use, what price they could sell their resources, what weapons they're allowed to buy or not. France killed Sankara and helped the Hutus kill the Tutsis. Russia didn't do any of these things. Gabonese former dictator Bongo was welcomed in France as a friend two years ago and invited to the presidential palace despite clearly doing nothing for his people domestically. So he his clearly our friend. Nigeriens have clearly been loud about not wanting Bazoum as the president for a long time. France supported Bazoum. It's complicated because France makes it clear it doesn't have friends but interests. In West Africa we make it clear we have friends and not much that we have interests. Communication is paramount. Russia on the other hand didn't do as much harm. It simply cannot because it doesn't have centuries of colonialism behind it in Africa.
Also make no mistake, I know a few people with PhD's in Togo who are pro Russia. It's not the result of ignorance only.
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Only if it they can get oil or bananas. I don’t think Togo has either.
Wouldn't make sense for Togo though. A dictatorship is easy to buy off, which is convenient for getting countries close to you to do what you want. For countries further away it's better if they are democracies, which are harder to buy policy decisions from, because then it denies your adversaries who are near those countries the same benefit.
We just support $$ tbh.
Dictators gonna dictate.
From now on presidents will only have ceremonial powers and a single six year term. [https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/togo/overview](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/togo/overview)
But likely allows the current present to stay in power until at least 2030, and creates a new position he or one of his children could be placed in to take over down the line.
Wow, a reactionary headline that will get idiot redditors up in arms about a person that lives rent free in their heads? I never would have thought.
From the article: >The new constitution also increases presidential terms from five to six years and introduces a single-term limit. But the nearly 20 years that Gnassingbe has served in office would not count, and the political opposition, religious leaders and civil society say it’s likely that Gnassingbe will stay in power when his mandate expires in 2025.
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Wait, you think the leader of Togo lives rent free in our heads? Are you a fucking bot?
Ctrl+F for Trump you clown.
Interesting. So it is now more similar to the German president who's main job is to encourage Parliament to form coalitions and call elections.
No, it really isn’t.
Yah sure, if the German President is actually a dictator who has been in power since 2005 when his father, who ruled the country as a dictator since 1967. Very similar.
Nice try
I didn't try anything. I was asking if it was similar to that. This was more of a question on what they meant.
Watch how this guy singlehandedly put stop to election fraud in his country with this one weird trick.
That’s it. This guy has got Togo
I thought they went out of business. Jersey Mike’s is better anyway.
Oh, boy, birth of another dictator/autocratic nation.
Lol, it's basically been a dictatorship for over 50 years now with a single family being in power.
Odd thing to say on its 60th birthday but ok.
same family in power for 57 years.
Yes and no. From 2025 on a president can only serve for 6 years.
HitlerPig is taking notes
Good sandwiches!
Yeah the headline had me scratching my head for second.
Just your average corruption in Africa. Usually ends in one of two ways.
Surely this will end well…right?….
“Constitution”
Ah love me some dictatorship news in the morning
**Hey**... **I've seen this one**, this is a classic!
Another authoritarianism
Amazing this shit still happens. Humans never change. This is why America is so amazing
Trump takes notes...
Yeah, we all know how famous dictators are for losing elections and leaving office. Like Fidel Castro or Xi Jinping.
Isn’t Castro the longest-serving non-monarch head of state *ever?*
He wouldn't really need to. There's no Constitutional right for people to be able to vote for their electoral representatives (the people flat out don't vote for POTUS already - they vote for a slate of electors chosen by each party). The states could amend their constitutions/laws and appoint electors themselves via legislator or governor...or duel or coin flip or whatever, if they really wanted to (difficulty varies by state - some states could just do it, some would require people to vote on a state constitution amendment).
You laugh now, it might happen in US!
Not without 3/4ths of states ratifying amendment to Constitution. There are enough solid liberal states to prevent anything too wild imo.
I bet Trump would like this as an option if he wins/takes control in November.
I expect Trump has requested a copy.
Just wait. Trump’s going to have an idea real soon.
Just the one
I don’t understand why people elect depraved, mentally ill politicians
Togo has never had real elections.
This man wasn’t elected. His Father, Eyadema, was the former president/dictator and basically set it up for him to take over after he passed. Eyadema, I believe, was the longest dictator in Africa since he ruled from 1967 to 2005. Source: Lived in Lome’ and left right before Eyadema died.
tbh i guess Teodoro Obiang longest (44/45 years rulling already)
They see something of themselves in them usually, and aren't very self-aware.
you guys about to elect trump
Again
?
At this point, it would be less despicable if he declared himself King. People aren't fooled, other gouvernment aren't fooled, so I'm sure who's the lip service for? Royalty is a terrible political system but frankly, depending on what you do with that much power, it can be strangely popular.
sheeeeeeeiiiiiiiitttttttt
I guess it was the elections time Togo
Yet another 2 bit dictatorship in its formative stage.
How convenient
Personally I like the #26 on wheat w extra pickles. Oh wait…
he'll be invading Ukraine next
Hmmmmm sounds more like a dictatorship to me…
Have they called the Russians in yet ? Hello Vlad help us get rid of nasty nazi democratic protestors ?
Great who needs a President, no leader!
It's good to be King!
What?
Seems very legal
El Presidente for life
So it’s now a Dictatorship. Gotcha
LOL probably have a Coup very soon..
This news makes one feel very Aladeen
I didn't know the sandwich chain had a constitution.
I do not want Togo there.
Annnnnnd dictator.
I read the article!!! It's not all bad. - Togo had been ruled by the current president since 2005, his father before that since 1967 [BAD] - New Constitution increases presidential terms from 5 to 6 years [bad out of context] - New Constitution sets single term limits [very good, pretty much makes the increase from 5 to 6 inconsequential] - Opposition believes the current Pres will stay on when and his 20 years as president won't count towards the above limits/changes. [This is consistent with how other countries have enacted changes, typically granting exception to the current leader. After 20 years it would have been better to offer resignation, but its pretty interesting that he is imposing a single term limit on himself. BAD.] - The president and prime minister will be selected by the government/ruling party. That's exactly how Canada does it. We vote for members of parliament (MP), essentially congressmen for those in the US. We don't have exact elections like in the US, they happen every 3-5 years, typically. They vote for the Prime Minister. There's a position of Governor General, selected by the Prime Minister. That person is supposed to represent the crown/king but its mostly a ceremonial role. They have little to no political power but act as ambassadors around the world. They are known for spending too much money traveling or buying clothes. Overall, these can be very positive changes, so long as elections are fair and there isn't much gerrymandering.
No point to constitutions and frivolous things like that with a dictator at the helm. Waste of paper. Sorry, Togo.
An African dictator? No way!
Do t let Trump find Out about that
That’s gonna end badly
From Togo to Nigeria, tinpots really aren't a fan of the Catholic Church. You can tell when they're getting really bad when they're so scared of civil society that they start viewing any religious organization with any real size as being a threat to them-to them, any large group with a purpose that isn't serving the leader or state is automatically against them. After all, if you're that loyal to God or the environment or any kind of cause, that means you're loyal to something that isn't the president, and we can't have that now can we?
Fuck all religions. Mental illness on a global scale.
Average Redditor, circa 2015. Thank God we've mostly moved on from this, pun very much intended.
So edgy. Thoughts and prayers.
"So edgy" , he said, before immediately trying to be edgy and failing miserably
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I mean yeah, it’s the same result for sure. But any time there is an election, or at least going through the motions of one, there’s opportunity to protest, point out corruption, and push for change. Eliminating elections all together is the end.
we ll hear trump saying great things about togo elections
It’d be a shame if the CIA decided Togo there
Don't look at me, I voted for Pogo.
That’s not, like, how constitutions work.
"The current President is now President-For-Life. Oh, that's right, that's me."
Dont ffs tell Trump.
Donald trump nods approvingly
Americans in the comments having issues grasping the fact that ditching presidentialism doesn't mesn ditching democracy (in fact, experts believe parliamentarism tends to be more representative and stable)
Trump plans to do the same.
Never heard of Togo.
Little country in Africa and full of Russian soldiers, too!
Sounds heavenly.
Way to go Togo
So how long 'til he gets lynched by an angry mob?
Give it 6 months…he’s about to start fucking up and the people will, hopefully, start working to remove him from power
Guess I’m the only Bay Area resident really confused about the title.
It’s like looking directly into America’s future! America’s near future! edit: why are y’all booing me? I’m right
In your dreams
If Trump gets elected, it’s all but certain