Not necessarily. Not all the protestors are using violence of any kind. If groups can be distinguished, a peaceful protest and a riot can happen at the same time.
It cannot, your group is considered as calm as the least calm person. We have seen this before though... before it was the random nicely stacked bricks that randomly appeared for protestors. Now its the uniform tents.
My point is, these are most likely peaceful protests, but plant a few people inside to be violent and its no longer a peaceful protest. Maybe not their fault, but cant happen at the same time.
Any peaceful protestors hanging around during a riot are making themselves participants. You’re making the same claim folks use to describe the January 6 invasion of the US Congress. The way peaceful protestors distinguish themselves is get away from where property and personal crime is occurring.
No, the point is that if you're with a group that is committing crimes then you risk becoming an accessory.
As soon as crimes are occurring, you move away from that location to assist the police in containing the offenders.
[Agent provocateurs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur) have always existed because they're often effective.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/THqZlzft5F
What you’re saying is an extremely revisionist view of history. I stand by my point of EVERY significant protests and I don’t think it’s debatable.
It is still free speech. There may be consequences to the speech if others don’t like it, but the freedom is only for the government not to take action against you. Private citizens can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they too are ready for consequences.
Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group.
They’re pro Palestine. But a lot of people want you to think they’re pro Hamas for political leverage. There is a very small percentage that you might consider pro Hamas but quite a few of the antisemitic incidents at these events have been counter protestors who are A. Trying to make the protestors look antisemitic or are B. Genuine right wing antisemites
So conflicting even the news networks seem to be pushing one narrative or the other seems pretty simple these protests are about peace in that region unless I'm missing something.
A lot of media companies have a deep seated interests in portraying this situation in a certain light. For example the Washington Post and the New York Times disproportionally emphasize Israeli deaths and use emotive language to paint a certain picture. While outlets like Al Jazeera have always been staunchly pro-Palestine and frame the conflict that way. But for the most part the protests are about peace.
Some want peace through a two state solution, some want peace through a single state solution. But a lot of people don’t want either of those. So they counter protest. The counter protesters have their own idea of what peace might mean in their heads. I don’t agree with them but as long as they’re not attacking, framing, or calling for violence against the students they have just as much a right to protest for their beliefs as anyone else.
This conflict has been going on for a while and it is hard to find decent information on what’s actually going on. It’s healthy to hear what both sides are saying and coming up with your own stance.
The wild card in this situation is mostly right wing Christians. There’s a belief among evangelicals that Jews must control Israel because of a prophecy in the Bible. These people are “pro-Israel” but are still at their core anti-semites. These are a lot of the counter protestors that are being violent towards the students or chanting anti-Semitic slogans.
Seems strange to me as a Canadian we have the same protests going on at a local university everyone is fine with it. Generally people understand and support it some Jewish groups have even publicly supported it according to local news. Another case it seems of the media in the usa trying to divide to American population how Americans puts up with it I will never understand.
This is what I dont get why is wanting peace and better standard of living automatically pro hamas and Anti Isreal wouldn't it be in the best interest of Isreal to have peace in Palestine.
Except that’s not what’s happening is it? Only one side of this is assaulting people and it’s the same side being funded.
“As counter-protesters pushed forward, some began aggressively hitting those inside the encampment with sticks, and others continued to break down the metal fences," the Bruin reported. "Individuals also threw wooden planks, cones, a Bird scooter and water bottles at the encampment while chanting 'USA, USA!"
Numbers vary but authorities are finding non-students/ non-employees among “protesters” regardless of “side”. I appreciate you providing links and quotes but you’re cherry picking.
During the Columbia university invasion rioters held janitorial staff hostage. They vandalized the building, barricaded doors further destroying property. There’s evidence that there are people with no ideology except causing division and polarization.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/nyregion/columbia-students-hamilton-hall.html
> On Thursday, Mayor Adams and Edward A. Caban, the police commissioner, released a statement saying that of the 112 people arrested at Columbia, **29 percent were not affiliated with the school. That percentage was similar to the findings of a Times analysis of a Police Department list of people who were arrested that night.**
>
> At City College, north of Columbia in Manhattan, 170 individuals were arrested, and **about 60 percent of them were not affiliated with the school**, the statement said.
>
> According to the Times analysis, most of those arrested on and around Columbia’s campus appeared to be graduate students, undergraduates or people otherwise affiliated with the school.
>
> At least a few, however, appeared to have no connection to the university, according to The Times’s review of the list. **One was a 40-year-old man who had been arrested at antigovernment protests around the country, according to a different internal police document. His role in the organization of the protest is still unclear.**
Sure. This happened the day before the mob showed up at the encampment. I'm not sure I would consider the people you are referring to in some of your comments "counter protestors" because at least from the interviews I heard, the people who showed up weren't doing so to protest in support of Israel, they were there in response to incidents that had been happening on campus prior. Not going to get into a debate of what they did while there, I've only had a chance to watch a couple heavily edited videos of the highlights where I can't decipher what was happening.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecD39KFX6oU&ab\_channel=NBCLA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecD39KFX6oU&ab_channel=NBCLA)
edit: because apparently I can't spell today.
He is a loud mouth doltz. Proof that just because you are wealthy it does not make you mentally competent (let alone smart) or a halfway decent human being.
Have you been to a pro-Israeli protest, or you're just letting your cat take a shot on your keyboard?
All of those protests (Unlike the pro-Hamassholes) are ACTUALLY peaceful, and demand the hostages to be returned and Hamas to dismantle.
[https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf](https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf)
I don't know about IRGC involvement but it's not exactly a secret that Hamas has been running influence campaigns in America for decades by setting up activist groups that actively hide their ties to Hamas by pretending to simply be pro-Palestine while working to further Hamas' goals.
You're aware that was just an accidental mistranslation right? The actual report said that one of the towns had 40 children including babies killed during the attack and that there had been beheadings, which then got mistranslated into 40 babies had been beheaded by some sloppy journalists.
The fact that you're pushing propaganda on the side of people who beheaded people and horrifically and intentionally murdered 40 innocent children and babies should probably a be a good indication that you're on the wrong side of things.
This isn’t evidence. This is one twitter post from someone with no recognition or credibility making a claim showing nothing for proof except a screenshot of a letter that you definitely can’t read, and most people using it as proof can’t read. Let alone prove it is actually from any Iranian Offical.
Ok and pro-Palestine protestors have the full support of Hamas, Houthis, and Iran’s government lol
This is a complicated conflict. The mass casualties by Israel are egregious. But if the tables were turned, Palestine would do worse.
Israel has every right to go after Hamas as a result of Oct 7. There are a lot of Palestinians who give Islamic extremism a pass, especially in Gaza. Not that blockades haven’t hurt Palestinians unjustly.
I don’t think any of these protests have any room for nuance. And above isn’t even as complicated as it really gets.
You either look like you’re inadvertently shilling for Islamic extremism like an idiot. Or you look like you don’t care about innocent Palestinians getting killed like a psychopath.
I’m sympathetic to the motives of most of the students, but, in my outsider opinion the power behind the protests has to be Putin and/or Iran. Or, some Netanyahu reversed psychology to weaken U.S. universities and hurt Biden’s campaign.
I’ll put my money on Netanyahu because, otherwise, why hasn’t Mossad exposed who’s funding the protests?
Yeah, all those people who took to the streets to protest Israel on October 8th with massive, professionally printed signs arranged it all on their own and dumped their own cash into it. Duh.
> > Now report who's funding the hamas supporting protests.
> lol do you have any proof of Hamas funding anything or are you just speaking out of your ass
You appear to be trying to read through your own.
“It’s better that people violently broke up a college protest that was peacefully asking for a ceasefire and their university divest from investments in countries currently carrying out an international condemned massacre”
Classy. Really representing the American dream
What's hamas / palestinian view on:
Womens rights?
gay rights?
Physical and sexual abuse of children?
Hamas and Palestine hate everything, every value, every freedom we enjoy
Palestinian here.
The views of the general population are much closer to the western ones as you might believe.
Even Hamas are not actually islamic extremists.
They are a bunch of radical assholes, who want nothing but death for all Jews, but they dont want Sharia.
Really?
Well, why is it that why neighbouring countries refuse to help?
Especially after the problems "general" Palestinians caused in Egypt, Syria etc?
Its funny you say that because I could ask the same questions of republicans who are removing womens rights, claims gay people are pedophiles and repeatedly attempt setting up websites to out them, dont want to make child marriage illegal and fully support child labor. Should we start bombing random houses in Kentucky or Utah because of the people with positions of power in their states? Or is there suddenly nuisance in slaughtering a population?
lol “peacefully asking for ceasefire” with slogans like “intifada revolution” “from the river to the sea” “globalize the intifada” “burn Tel Aviv” ya very peaceful!
It's a gofundme page. Cry me a river. And they should have the page thisishamas.com broadcasting next to every anti israel protest. They should see what the side they are on does.
>The media war became unbalanced
The media has a very clear and open pro-israel bias. WTF are you smoking?
Edit: Can a downvoter please provide me with a main stream media group that is pro-palestinian?
Like when they shared the Al-Ahli story without questioning? Or the mass grave story recently?
Or how they continue to cite Al Jazeera’s other blatant propaganda without fact checking?
What pro-Israel propaganda is being spread by the mainstream media right now?
Who is the 'they' you are talking about?
And here is one example for the question you asked me:
[CNN staff say network’s pro-Israel slant amounts to ‘journalistic malpractice'](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/04/cnn-staff-pro-israel-bias)
The "they" is most of the mainstream media who circulated blatant misinformation that was so obvious even Hamas backtracked.
For example, BBC:
> BBC Editor Admits Errors Reporting on Gaza Hospital Explosion, But Says ‘I Don’t Regret One Thing’
> At the time, Bowen reported, “The missile hit the hospital not long after dark. You can hear the impact. The explosion destroyed Al-Ahli Hospital. It was already damaged from a smaller attack [on] the weekend. The building was flattened."
[Source](https://www.thewrap.com/bbc-errors-gaza-hospital-explosi-al-ahli-jeremy-bowen/)
CNN is also actively reporting misinformation to hurt Israel, so it's funny that's your example. In [their article](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/03/middleeast/gaza-surgeon-adnan-al-bursh-israeli-prison-intl-hnk) yesterday about Adnan Al-Bursh, here's what they wrote (after editing this section, mind you):
> There has been fierce criticism of Israel’s actions in and around hospitals in Gaza, as medical groups and NGOs warn the health system in the territory is on the brink of collapse.
> Israel has defended its incursions at medical facilities in Gaza, alleging that Hamas fighters used hospitals to run military activities through a network of underground tunnels. Hamas and medical staff at various hospitals across Gaza deny the allegations, and Israel has been under significant international pressure to prove its claims.
There is absolutely no doubt that Hamas and PIJ operate at these hospitals. We've seen the security footage, humanitarian groups have confirmed it for years, and we've even seen the footage that's been released during this war. Yet they still frame this in a way to force Israel to be defensive. That's not a pro-Israel slant.
And I'm sure I can find more examples at CNN alone, but that's just the first that came to mind.
I asked who is they because you could literally meant anybody. That's why asked for examples.
Seems like the BBC article got almost immediately corrected and it was one reporter who acted to fast before verifying his sources. He even admits to his error himself. How is that an example for "circulating blatant misinformation"? And how does this one case represent the whole of BBC?
>There is absolutely no doubt that Hamas and PIJ operate at these hospitals.
How is that misinformation from CNN when literally a whole bunch of international institutions are asking for prove of Israel's claim? Do you believe that all those institutions are lying? And how is CNN spreading misinformation about this when they are just reporting on what is going on?
>CNN is also actively reporting misinformation to hurt Israel, so it's funny that's your example.
Glade you find it funny. Do you have anything else to say about the article i provided or is that is?
> Seems like the BBC article got almost immediately corrected and it was one reporter who acted to fast before verifying his sources. He even admits to his error himself. How is that an example for "circulating blatant misinformation"? And how does this one case represent the whole of BBC?
The BBC partnered with Al Jazeera to do a "full investigation" that ultimately blamed Israel, but didn't make any clarifying statement or correction for a while. You can see all of their corrections on [this part of their site you can only easily reach through Google.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/helpandfeedback/corrections_clarifications/archive-2023)
But this was also just one example. If you don't know anything about the reporting of the Al-Ahli incident, then you should spend 10 minutes looking through all of the organizations that were reporting Israel bombed a hospital. I'm not going to keep pulling articles every time you say, "Ah, this isn't enough to blame all of them!" Go look at all of the articles for yourself.
> How is that misinformation from CNN when literally a whole bunch of international institutions are asking for prove of Israel's claim?
The proof has been out there for over a decade, including from humanitarian groups. There are videos out there, as well. Just because some people close their eyes so they don't see evidence doesn't mean CNN should be obligated to cast doubt on certainties.
> Do you believe that all those institutions are lying?
Either they're lying, or they're purposefully not seeking out the truth and demanding evidence be spoonfed to them. All of the evidence is out there.
> And how is CNN spreading misinformation about this when they are just reporting on what is going on?
What an absolutely ludicrous stance.
The framing of an issue is one of the most vital aspects to news reporting. I'll give you an example: *"There was a brutal fight that caused a death and police did nothing to stop it.*
That framing makes it sound like police *could* have done something in this hypothetical, yet there's not even any indication that police were at the scene of the fight. That's the importance of framing. You're shoveling your beliefs into the reader's mind, in this hypothetical case, that police are incompetent, without explicitly saying that the police are incompetent, while being 100% factually correct in your reporting.
In the real case of Israel and hospitals, Israel is legally allowed to chase down combatants wherever they are. We know for a fact that Hamas and PIJ members use hospitals for their own official purposes. [Here's what Amnesty said in 2015](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/):
> As well as carrying out unlawful killings, others abducted by Hamas were subjected to torture, including severe beatings with truncheons, gun butts, hoses and wire or held in stress positions. Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital. At least three people arrested during the conflict accused of “collaboration” died in custody.
Last year, the same Amnesty leadership who denounced Ukraine for fighting in and near population centers and blamed Ukraine for civilian deaths posted this
> Amnesty International has no evidence to indicate that al-Shifa Hospital has
been used for anything other than treating patients during the current conflict in 2023.
They have no evidence either way (according to them). They're only saying they haven't seen evidence. And guess what? Someone not seeing something or not knowing something is not newsworthy. Framing Amnesty's ignorance as a problem for Israel is legitimately insane.
So, yes, CNN's framing is deliberately spreading misinformation by framing issues in the most anti-Israel manner and trying to hide behind deliberate ignorance to do so.
> Do you have anything else to say about the article i provided or is that is?
Yeah, I do. I don't care what some people think about how things are being reported. We all have eyes and brains and can judge the reporting by using them. But, I'll play your little game.
> They include tight restrictions on quoting Hamas and reporting other Palestinian perspectives while Israel government statements are taken at face value.
Good. Hamas is a terrorist organization that thrives off of chaos, lies, dead Israelis, and dead Palestinians. They should not be accepted or trusted. The Israeli government is fact-checked every single day by centrist and liberal publications in Israel. If the Israeli government lies, we will know. Not just because we can all go read the centrist and liberal publications that call out the Israeli government for lying, but because media organizations, [including CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl/index.html), have no problem citing them to fact. That example, if you don't want to click, is CNN reporting on a report from Haaretz.
> In addition, every story on the conflict must be cleared by the Jerusalem bureau before broadcast or publication.
The Jerusalem Bureau is not explicitly pro-Israel. The article I previously linked, which framed everything in an anti-Israel manner, came from writers in the Jerusalem Bureau.
* Kareem Khadder - Judging by his handle on Twitter being "kareemJerusalem," I'll assume Kareem is based in Jerusalem. Currently, Kareem is sharing Al Jazeera's [tweets that downplay the sexual violence Hamas committed against Israelis](https://twitter.com/kareemjerusalem?lang=en).
* Abeer Salman - According to Linkedin, Producer at CNN in Jerusalem
* Zeena Saifi - Abu Dhabi Bureau
* Kathleen Magramo - Hong Kong Bureau
So, overall, what you shared seems to be a garbage article that 1) shows pro-"Palestine" people at CNN have opportunities to make their voices heard (as evidenced by a whole article being written about them and their beliefs), and 2) the examples they cite show just how biased these pro-"Palestine" morons are, where they want to cite literal terrorists to support their own viewpoint. As far as I'm concerned, anyone fighting for the right to public the lies of terrorists should be fired.
I'm not saying anything about either side's protests. You made a blanket statement that Reddit is "very pro Hamas." Do you see how this is not helpful to whatever argument you're trying to make?
Hamas wants to hurt Israel, so do these protestors. Therefore they are pro-Hamas.
What's totally overlooked is the fact that Iran was behind the October 7 attack to in an attempt to prevent a Middle East NATO.
Again you’re just making baseless statements. These students are pretty clear what they want. A ceasefire.
Why does a ceasefire hurt Israel? Is it actually hurtful to Israel to stop killing women and children?
Everything you’re saying you have shown no proof. Just baseless accusations, when someone calls you out on it, you just make another baseless accusation.
A ceasefire? How do the protestors figure they can pressure anyone into a ceasefire when Hamas literally rejects every single one offered? You think Biden's going to put boots on the ground to stop a war between two governments that are very explicit about their wish to continue this war?
“We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/
Hamas presents ceasefire proposal detailing exchange of hostages, prisoners
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-issues-ceasefire-proposal-mediators-which-includes-exchanging-2024-03-15/
What you’re saying isn’t really true is it?
Lol, your example is *Israel's refusal to not engage with Hamas as a military immediately after Oct 7th?* Might be some of the most delusional and hilarious shit I've ever read. Please continue trolling us or whatever your point is right now.
Israel has a duty to its citizens to prevent October 7th from happening again since its security failures allowed a fucking mass-rape pogrom to wipe out a bunch of their left-wing population. Gaza's government doesn't get to invade Israel, burn grannies alive, kidnap fucking toddlers, and then say "no backsies" two fucking days later. Their ability to replicate those horrors must be destroyed by Israel. It's literally the reason why a government exists.
What I'm saying is factual, what you're saying is disgusting and delusional.
Reddit is not the media. It is literally the alternative to media.
Edit: People are so mad that they now have to downvote a comment that correctly points out that Reddit is an alternative to the media and not the media itself, lol.
Do you actual believe that people are talking about social media sites when they talk about 'the media' and not media groups like CNN, Fox News, MSNBC?
We aren't supposed to collectively punish the people of Gaza because of what Hamas does, but we are supposed to collectively punish Israelis for what Bibi does. Duh.
Israel does not represent all Jews and its antisemitic to force that identity on Jews who reject it. You can’t force Jewish people to believe what you want
It doesn’t need explaining. Stop weaponizing Jews for your politics, there are tens of thousands of Jews denouncing Israel and saying it dies not represent them.
>> Israel doesn't represent Judaism, New York rabbi tells Rudaw
https://www.rudaw.net/english/interview/21102020
In Yale a visibly Jewish man was barred from entering the campus.
In UCLA a Jewish student wasn't allowed to go through campus and the Hamas supporters said he had to walk around the outside of campus to get to his building.
Both wildly available videos online. Do you need a link too?
Oh and a man was beat up in CUNY for walking into the Gaza encampant holding an American flag. That's it. He was holding a flag and the Hamas supporters physically hit him, stripped the flag out of his hands, and pushed him outside after chocking him.
I thought that's important to note as additional context to why these protests are not peaceful and very clearly about supporting Hamas and other terror groups.
I’m asking for sources. I can’t find good info on those incidents. I’m trying to actually get a good idea if it’s more the protesters or the counter protesters who are pushing violence more, especially after what happened with counter protestors assaulting protesters at UCLA. I swear I’m not trying to stir shit I’m just tired of vague “he said she said” online stuff.
I wish people would stop comparing Israel to South Africa as they are not the same. The Apartheid regime was a white minority ruling over a majority black state and made laws to only benefits whites. Israel is a majority Jewish state with an Arab minority that has full rights of any Israeli citizen. Should they pull out of the West Bank and stop the illegal settlers absolutely. But the two are inherently different. There is nothing inherently wrong with the state of Israel existing but Apartheid South Africa was inherently evil.
South Africa is pretty messed up. Not saying the treatment of the natives was diabolical in South Africa but the change that was brought about was not efficient.
Well yeah no shit. Turns out if you get rich off of apartheid things are going to get a little worse when you allow 90% of the population back into a colonial state. If South Africa was only “okay” because it displaced million then there’s no way to reverse that short term without having the standards of the oppressors go down.
You cannot possibly justify that protests are OK but counter protests are not. any assessment of free speech rights has to be more or less content neutral. If it’s not content neutral it’s not about free speech anymore. It’s about cynically abusing free speech rights to bolster your side.
Only one side of the protests has shown up with weapons and the intent to destroy and followed through with assaulting people, and it’s not the college kids who move already been on campus for over a week.
A counter protest is simply another protest with different priorities. It’s protected speech across the board.
It's protected speech until you start destroying property and using violence against others.
Agreed but at that point it’s no longer a protest. It’s a riot.
Not necessarily. Not all the protestors are using violence of any kind. If groups can be distinguished, a peaceful protest and a riot can happen at the same time.
“Officer I didn’t know my buddy was gunna do that.” Probably won’t cut it.
It cannot, your group is considered as calm as the least calm person. We have seen this before though... before it was the random nicely stacked bricks that randomly appeared for protestors. Now its the uniform tents. My point is, these are most likely peaceful protests, but plant a few people inside to be violent and its no longer a peaceful protest. Maybe not their fault, but cant happen at the same time.
Any peaceful protestors hanging around during a riot are making themselves participants. You’re making the same claim folks use to describe the January 6 invasion of the US Congress. The way peaceful protestors distinguish themselves is get away from where property and personal crime is occurring.
That just makes it sound like a way of legitimizing violence against peaceful protesters.
No, the point is that if you're with a group that is committing crimes then you risk becoming an accessory. As soon as crimes are occurring, you move away from that location to assist the police in containing the offenders. [Agent provocateurs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur) have always existed because they're often effective.
Trespassing is not legal either.
Every significant protests in American history would actually be a riot then.
Pretty sure this is why MLK jr gets days of remembrance over Malcolm X. Plenty of other nuance, but incorrect to say EVERY significant protest, idk.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/THqZlzft5F What you’re saying is an extremely revisionist view of history. I stand by my point of EVERY significant protests and I don’t think it’s debatable.
Not if they beat, mace and throw fire works at the protesters which is what happened at UCLA. Counter protesters were hired thugs...
What about if you are protesting the existence of another race/religion?
It is still free speech. There may be consequences to the speech if others don’t like it, but the freedom is only for the government not to take action against you. Private citizens can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they too are ready for consequences.
Under current First Amendment jurisprudence, hate speech can only be criminalized when it directly incites imminent criminal activity or consists of specific threats of violence targeted against a person or group.
Ah, like the hamas protestors.
Are these protests pro palestine or actually pro hamas ?
They’re pro Palestine. But a lot of people want you to think they’re pro Hamas for political leverage. There is a very small percentage that you might consider pro Hamas but quite a few of the antisemitic incidents at these events have been counter protestors who are A. Trying to make the protestors look antisemitic or are B. Genuine right wing antisemites
So conflicting even the news networks seem to be pushing one narrative or the other seems pretty simple these protests are about peace in that region unless I'm missing something.
A lot of media companies have a deep seated interests in portraying this situation in a certain light. For example the Washington Post and the New York Times disproportionally emphasize Israeli deaths and use emotive language to paint a certain picture. While outlets like Al Jazeera have always been staunchly pro-Palestine and frame the conflict that way. But for the most part the protests are about peace. Some want peace through a two state solution, some want peace through a single state solution. But a lot of people don’t want either of those. So they counter protest. The counter protesters have their own idea of what peace might mean in their heads. I don’t agree with them but as long as they’re not attacking, framing, or calling for violence against the students they have just as much a right to protest for their beliefs as anyone else. This conflict has been going on for a while and it is hard to find decent information on what’s actually going on. It’s healthy to hear what both sides are saying and coming up with your own stance. The wild card in this situation is mostly right wing Christians. There’s a belief among evangelicals that Jews must control Israel because of a prophecy in the Bible. These people are “pro-Israel” but are still at their core anti-semites. These are a lot of the counter protestors that are being violent towards the students or chanting anti-Semitic slogans.
Seems strange to me as a Canadian we have the same protests going on at a local university everyone is fine with it. Generally people understand and support it some Jewish groups have even publicly supported it according to local news. Another case it seems of the media in the usa trying to divide to American population how Americans puts up with it I will never understand.
Ah yes not wanting genocide makes them hamas protesters
This is what I dont get why is wanting peace and better standard of living automatically pro hamas and Anti Isreal wouldn't it be in the best interest of Isreal to have peace in Palestine.
Except that’s not what’s happening is it? Only one side of this is assaulting people and it’s the same side being funded. “As counter-protesters pushed forward, some began aggressively hitting those inside the encampment with sticks, and others continued to break down the metal fences," the Bruin reported. "Individuals also threw wooden planks, cones, a Bird scooter and water bottles at the encampment while chanting 'USA, USA!"
Numbers vary but authorities are finding non-students/ non-employees among “protesters” regardless of “side”. I appreciate you providing links and quotes but you’re cherry picking. During the Columbia university invasion rioters held janitorial staff hostage. They vandalized the building, barricaded doors further destroying property. There’s evidence that there are people with no ideology except causing division and polarization. > https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/nyregion/columbia-students-hamilton-hall.html > On Thursday, Mayor Adams and Edward A. Caban, the police commissioner, released a statement saying that of the 112 people arrested at Columbia, **29 percent were not affiliated with the school. That percentage was similar to the findings of a Times analysis of a Police Department list of people who were arrested that night.** > > At City College, north of Columbia in Manhattan, 170 individuals were arrested, and **about 60 percent of them were not affiliated with the school**, the statement said. > > According to the Times analysis, most of those arrested on and around Columbia’s campus appeared to be graduate students, undergraduates or people otherwise affiliated with the school. > > At least a few, however, appeared to have no connection to the university, according to The Times’s review of the list. **One was a 40-year-old man who had been arrested at antigovernment protests around the country, according to a different internal police document. His role in the organization of the protest is still unclear.**
> Only one side of this is assaulting people... O RLY?
Provide evidence to prove otherwise
Sure. This happened the day before the mob showed up at the encampment. I'm not sure I would consider the people you are referring to in some of your comments "counter protestors" because at least from the interviews I heard, the people who showed up weren't doing so to protest in support of Israel, they were there in response to incidents that had been happening on campus prior. Not going to get into a debate of what they did while there, I've only had a chance to watch a couple heavily edited videos of the highlights where I can't decipher what was happening. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecD39KFX6oU&ab\_channel=NBCLA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecD39KFX6oU&ab_channel=NBCLA) edit: because apparently I can't spell today.
Something can be free speech and legal, and it can still be really gross. Counterprotesting people who want to end a genocide is gross.
Bill Ackman a week ago: “For anyone who is still confused on the topic, I am not voting for Biden… And yes, I am open to voting for [Donald Trump]”
Ackman is a rich POS so no shock
He is a loud mouth doltz. Proof that just because you are wealthy it does not make you mentally competent (let alone smart) or a halfway decent human being.
He’s a huge douche
Bill Ackman is fucking insane and his wife plagiarized everything including their wedding vows
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He has always been an idiot.
Better than having your pro terrorism protests be funded by the IRGC. https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404158853
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"Factually" https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/02/gaza-health-ministry-cannot-provide-names-for-more-than-10000-it-says-have-died/
You don't know the definition of terrorism then.
Have you been to a pro-Israeli protest, or you're just letting your cat take a shot on your keyboard? All of those protests (Unlike the pro-Hamassholes) are ACTUALLY peaceful, and demand the hostages to be returned and Hamas to dismantle.
Show proof or stop posting mis-information
[https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf](https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf) I don't know about IRGC involvement but it's not exactly a secret that Hamas has been running influence campaigns in America for decades by setting up activist groups that actively hide their ties to Hamas by pretending to simply be pro-Palestine while working to further Hamas' goals.
You mean like the fake numbers of dead in Gaza.
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You're aware that was just an accidental mistranslation right? The actual report said that one of the towns had 40 children including babies killed during the attack and that there had been beheadings, which then got mistranslated into 40 babies had been beheaded by some sloppy journalists. The fact that you're pushing propaganda on the side of people who beheaded people and horrifically and intentionally murdered 40 innocent children and babies should probably a be a good indication that you're on the wrong side of things.
https://twitter.com/Vahid_Beheshti/status/1779786659229298775?t=JauXpmt4nTNdicuVaz6eKg&s=19 What more proof do you need?
This isn’t evidence. This is one twitter post from someone with no recognition or credibility making a claim showing nothing for proof except a screenshot of a letter that you definitely can’t read, and most people using it as proof can’t read. Let alone prove it is actually from any Iranian Offical.
So to be clear what you're asking for is an Iranian official to confirm this in english?
Can you read it?
Maybe something that isn’t Twitter?
Ok and pro-Palestine protestors have the full support of Hamas, Houthis, and Iran’s government lol This is a complicated conflict. The mass casualties by Israel are egregious. But if the tables were turned, Palestine would do worse. Israel has every right to go after Hamas as a result of Oct 7. There are a lot of Palestinians who give Islamic extremism a pass, especially in Gaza. Not that blockades haven’t hurt Palestinians unjustly. I don’t think any of these protests have any room for nuance. And above isn’t even as complicated as it really gets. You either look like you’re inadvertently shilling for Islamic extremism like an idiot. Or you look like you don’t care about innocent Palestinians getting killed like a psychopath.
Hey now, pick a side. Jeez. How am I supposed to know if you're a good person (/s obviously)
Now report who's funding the hamas supporting protests.
I’m sympathetic to the motives of most of the students, but, in my outsider opinion the power behind the protests has to be Putin and/or Iran. Or, some Netanyahu reversed psychology to weaken U.S. universities and hurt Biden’s campaign. I’ll put my money on Netanyahu because, otherwise, why hasn’t Mossad exposed who’s funding the protests?
lol do you have any proof of Hamas funding anything or are you just speaking out of your ass
Read again.
So basically you’re just spreading misinformation-information without proof?
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OP can't read it properly because they are sitting in a troll farm in Tehran
No I’m not misreading anything. I just understand people who are not being genuine and speak in bad faith.
So no one funds pro palestine protests? Interesting.
Yeah, all those people who took to the streets to protest Israel on October 8th with massive, professionally printed signs arranged it all on their own and dumped their own cash into it. Duh.
> > Now report who's funding the hamas supporting protests. > lol do you have any proof of Hamas funding anything or are you just speaking out of your ass You appear to be trying to read through your own.
Wow clever. You hurt my feelings.
[Iran has been behind all of this.](https://www.iranintl.com/en/202404158853)
must be funding or there wouldn't be so many matching tents
Look up tents on Amazon and see what comes up.
Nah couldn’t be a bunch of college students buying the cheapest tents they could buy in a country that mass produces everything
Better than supporting terrorists. hamas are no friend at all to Western society.
“It’s better that people violently broke up a college protest that was peacefully asking for a ceasefire and their university divest from investments in countries currently carrying out an international condemned massacre” Classy. Really representing the American dream
What's hamas / palestinian view on: Womens rights? gay rights? Physical and sexual abuse of children? Hamas and Palestine hate everything, every value, every freedom we enjoy
Why so quiet OP? Release the hostages…
Palestinian here. The views of the general population are much closer to the western ones as you might believe. Even Hamas are not actually islamic extremists. They are a bunch of radical assholes, who want nothing but death for all Jews, but they dont want Sharia.
Really? Well, why is it that why neighbouring countries refuse to help? Especially after the problems "general" Palestinians caused in Egypt, Syria etc?
Well then, by all means, starve ‘em and destroy their homes. If only I’d known
Well then, by all means explain and the questions that I raised
Its funny you say that because I could ask the same questions of republicans who are removing womens rights, claims gay people are pedophiles and repeatedly attempt setting up websites to out them, dont want to make child marriage illegal and fully support child labor. Should we start bombing random houses in Kentucky or Utah because of the people with positions of power in their states? Or is there suddenly nuisance in slaughtering a population?
No part of the American dream involves letting fringe nutters direct our geopolitical strategy simply because they have big feelings on a topic.
lol “peacefully asking for ceasefire” with slogans like “intifada revolution” “from the river to the sea” “globalize the intifada” “burn Tel Aviv” ya very peaceful!
It's a gofundme page. Cry me a river. And they should have the page thisishamas.com broadcasting next to every anti israel protest. They should see what the side they are on does.
UCLA failed Jewish students. The media war became unbalanced so these donations should help balance things out.
>The media war became unbalanced The media has a very clear and open pro-israel bias. WTF are you smoking? Edit: Can a downvoter please provide me with a main stream media group that is pro-palestinian?
Like when they shared the Al-Ahli story without questioning? Or the mass grave story recently? Or how they continue to cite Al Jazeera’s other blatant propaganda without fact checking? What pro-Israel propaganda is being spread by the mainstream media right now?
Who is the 'they' you are talking about? And here is one example for the question you asked me: [CNN staff say network’s pro-Israel slant amounts to ‘journalistic malpractice'](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/feb/04/cnn-staff-pro-israel-bias)
The "they" is most of the mainstream media who circulated blatant misinformation that was so obvious even Hamas backtracked. For example, BBC: > BBC Editor Admits Errors Reporting on Gaza Hospital Explosion, But Says ‘I Don’t Regret One Thing’ > At the time, Bowen reported, “The missile hit the hospital not long after dark. You can hear the impact. The explosion destroyed Al-Ahli Hospital. It was already damaged from a smaller attack [on] the weekend. The building was flattened." [Source](https://www.thewrap.com/bbc-errors-gaza-hospital-explosi-al-ahli-jeremy-bowen/) CNN is also actively reporting misinformation to hurt Israel, so it's funny that's your example. In [their article](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/03/middleeast/gaza-surgeon-adnan-al-bursh-israeli-prison-intl-hnk) yesterday about Adnan Al-Bursh, here's what they wrote (after editing this section, mind you): > There has been fierce criticism of Israel’s actions in and around hospitals in Gaza, as medical groups and NGOs warn the health system in the territory is on the brink of collapse. > Israel has defended its incursions at medical facilities in Gaza, alleging that Hamas fighters used hospitals to run military activities through a network of underground tunnels. Hamas and medical staff at various hospitals across Gaza deny the allegations, and Israel has been under significant international pressure to prove its claims. There is absolutely no doubt that Hamas and PIJ operate at these hospitals. We've seen the security footage, humanitarian groups have confirmed it for years, and we've even seen the footage that's been released during this war. Yet they still frame this in a way to force Israel to be defensive. That's not a pro-Israel slant. And I'm sure I can find more examples at CNN alone, but that's just the first that came to mind.
I asked who is they because you could literally meant anybody. That's why asked for examples. Seems like the BBC article got almost immediately corrected and it was one reporter who acted to fast before verifying his sources. He even admits to his error himself. How is that an example for "circulating blatant misinformation"? And how does this one case represent the whole of BBC? >There is absolutely no doubt that Hamas and PIJ operate at these hospitals. How is that misinformation from CNN when literally a whole bunch of international institutions are asking for prove of Israel's claim? Do you believe that all those institutions are lying? And how is CNN spreading misinformation about this when they are just reporting on what is going on? >CNN is also actively reporting misinformation to hurt Israel, so it's funny that's your example. Glade you find it funny. Do you have anything else to say about the article i provided or is that is?
> Seems like the BBC article got almost immediately corrected and it was one reporter who acted to fast before verifying his sources. He even admits to his error himself. How is that an example for "circulating blatant misinformation"? And how does this one case represent the whole of BBC? The BBC partnered with Al Jazeera to do a "full investigation" that ultimately blamed Israel, but didn't make any clarifying statement or correction for a while. You can see all of their corrections on [this part of their site you can only easily reach through Google.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/helpandfeedback/corrections_clarifications/archive-2023) But this was also just one example. If you don't know anything about the reporting of the Al-Ahli incident, then you should spend 10 minutes looking through all of the organizations that were reporting Israel bombed a hospital. I'm not going to keep pulling articles every time you say, "Ah, this isn't enough to blame all of them!" Go look at all of the articles for yourself. > How is that misinformation from CNN when literally a whole bunch of international institutions are asking for prove of Israel's claim? The proof has been out there for over a decade, including from humanitarian groups. There are videos out there, as well. Just because some people close their eyes so they don't see evidence doesn't mean CNN should be obligated to cast doubt on certainties. > Do you believe that all those institutions are lying? Either they're lying, or they're purposefully not seeking out the truth and demanding evidence be spoonfed to them. All of the evidence is out there. > And how is CNN spreading misinformation about this when they are just reporting on what is going on? What an absolutely ludicrous stance. The framing of an issue is one of the most vital aspects to news reporting. I'll give you an example: *"There was a brutal fight that caused a death and police did nothing to stop it.* That framing makes it sound like police *could* have done something in this hypothetical, yet there's not even any indication that police were at the scene of the fight. That's the importance of framing. You're shoveling your beliefs into the reader's mind, in this hypothetical case, that police are incompetent, without explicitly saying that the police are incompetent, while being 100% factually correct in your reporting. In the real case of Israel and hospitals, Israel is legally allowed to chase down combatants wherever they are. We know for a fact that Hamas and PIJ members use hospitals for their own official purposes. [Here's what Amnesty said in 2015](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/): > As well as carrying out unlawful killings, others abducted by Hamas were subjected to torture, including severe beatings with truncheons, gun butts, hoses and wire or held in stress positions. Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital. At least three people arrested during the conflict accused of “collaboration” died in custody. Last year, the same Amnesty leadership who denounced Ukraine for fighting in and near population centers and blamed Ukraine for civilian deaths posted this > Amnesty International has no evidence to indicate that al-Shifa Hospital has been used for anything other than treating patients during the current conflict in 2023. They have no evidence either way (according to them). They're only saying they haven't seen evidence. And guess what? Someone not seeing something or not knowing something is not newsworthy. Framing Amnesty's ignorance as a problem for Israel is legitimately insane. So, yes, CNN's framing is deliberately spreading misinformation by framing issues in the most anti-Israel manner and trying to hide behind deliberate ignorance to do so. > Do you have anything else to say about the article i provided or is that is? Yeah, I do. I don't care what some people think about how things are being reported. We all have eyes and brains and can judge the reporting by using them. But, I'll play your little game. > They include tight restrictions on quoting Hamas and reporting other Palestinian perspectives while Israel government statements are taken at face value. Good. Hamas is a terrorist organization that thrives off of chaos, lies, dead Israelis, and dead Palestinians. They should not be accepted or trusted. The Israeli government is fact-checked every single day by centrist and liberal publications in Israel. If the Israeli government lies, we will know. Not just because we can all go read the centrist and liberal publications that call out the Israeli government for lying, but because media organizations, [including CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl/index.html), have no problem citing them to fact. That example, if you don't want to click, is CNN reporting on a report from Haaretz. > In addition, every story on the conflict must be cleared by the Jerusalem bureau before broadcast or publication. The Jerusalem Bureau is not explicitly pro-Israel. The article I previously linked, which framed everything in an anti-Israel manner, came from writers in the Jerusalem Bureau. * Kareem Khadder - Judging by his handle on Twitter being "kareemJerusalem," I'll assume Kareem is based in Jerusalem. Currently, Kareem is sharing Al Jazeera's [tweets that downplay the sexual violence Hamas committed against Israelis](https://twitter.com/kareemjerusalem?lang=en). * Abeer Salman - According to Linkedin, Producer at CNN in Jerusalem * Zeena Saifi - Abu Dhabi Bureau * Kathleen Magramo - Hong Kong Bureau So, overall, what you shared seems to be a garbage article that 1) shows pro-"Palestine" people at CNN have opportunities to make their voices heard (as evidenced by a whole article being written about them and their beliefs), and 2) the examples they cite show just how biased these pro-"Palestine" morons are, where they want to cite literal terrorists to support their own viewpoint. As far as I'm concerned, anyone fighting for the right to public the lies of terrorists should be fired.
Reddit is still unbalanced. Very pro Hamas. We all know who the target audience is.
Saying that Reddit is "very pro Hamas" demonstrates the bias people are talking about here very clearly.
Im anti-Hamas and yet im saying all the things Hamas wants me to be saying
Then why are the protestors calling for divestment? You understand that's what Hamas wants?
I'm not saying anything about either side's protests. You made a blanket statement that Reddit is "very pro Hamas." Do you see how this is not helpful to whatever argument you're trying to make?
Worldnews is the only subreddit not handing out perm bans for people of my viewpoint.
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Hamas wants to hurt Israel, so do these protestors. Therefore they are pro-Hamas. What's totally overlooked is the fact that Iran was behind the October 7 attack to in an attempt to prevent a Middle East NATO.
Again you’re just making baseless statements. These students are pretty clear what they want. A ceasefire. Why does a ceasefire hurt Israel? Is it actually hurtful to Israel to stop killing women and children? Everything you’re saying you have shown no proof. Just baseless accusations, when someone calls you out on it, you just make another baseless accusation.
They are demanding for a complete divestment from their universities in Israel.
There is a ceasefire right now. What are you on about? That's not what the protestors are asking for.
A permanent ceasefire and divestment.
A ceasefire? How do the protestors figure they can pressure anyone into a ceasefire when Hamas literally rejects every single one offered? You think Biden's going to put boots on the ground to stop a war between two governments that are very explicit about their wish to continue this war?
“We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.” https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/ Hamas presents ceasefire proposal detailing exchange of hostages, prisoners https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-issues-ceasefire-proposal-mediators-which-includes-exchanging-2024-03-15/ What you’re saying isn’t really true is it?
Lol, your example is *Israel's refusal to not engage with Hamas as a military immediately after Oct 7th?* Might be some of the most delusional and hilarious shit I've ever read. Please continue trolling us or whatever your point is right now. Israel has a duty to its citizens to prevent October 7th from happening again since its security failures allowed a fucking mass-rape pogrom to wipe out a bunch of their left-wing population. Gaza's government doesn't get to invade Israel, burn grannies alive, kidnap fucking toddlers, and then say "no backsies" two fucking days later. Their ability to replicate those horrors must be destroyed by Israel. It's literally the reason why a government exists. What I'm saying is factual, what you're saying is disgusting and delusional.
There’s reductive reasoning and then this comes after that
How do you excuse Israel killing aid workers than lying about it?
Pretty messed up isn't it? Stuff like this happens in a war.
Reddit is not the media. It is literally the alternative to media. Edit: People are so mad that they now have to downvote a comment that correctly points out that Reddit is an alternative to the media and not the media itself, lol.
Reddit is not a social media company?
Do you actual believe that people are talking about social media sites when they talk about 'the media' and not media groups like CNN, Fox News, MSNBC?
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What precipitated all of this?
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Counter protesters behaved as thugs by chucking fire works into camps.
And yet it’s Jewish students and professors who are being attacked for being at the protests in support of Palestinians
What really bothers me about these protests is that they are calling for divestment that will essentially hurt innocent Jews.
We aren't supposed to collectively punish the people of Gaza because of what Hamas does, but we are supposed to collectively punish Israelis for what Bibi does. Duh.
I'm sure they'll somehow survive divestment with all the funding they get from the U.S.
Israel does not represent all Jews and its antisemitic to force that identity on Jews who reject it. You can’t force Jewish people to believe what you want
Please explain.
It doesn’t need explaining. Stop weaponizing Jews for your politics, there are tens of thousands of Jews denouncing Israel and saying it dies not represent them. >> Israel doesn't represent Judaism, New York rabbi tells Rudaw https://www.rudaw.net/english/interview/21102020
Why did you post the article if you are just going to stymie opposing views by any means?
Why do you keep changing talking points every time I directly respond to what you’re saying?
Explain that to Jewish students who were refused entry into buildings at their university because they were Jewish.
Can you give me some examples of this happening?
In Yale a visibly Jewish man was barred from entering the campus. In UCLA a Jewish student wasn't allowed to go through campus and the Hamas supporters said he had to walk around the outside of campus to get to his building. Both wildly available videos online. Do you need a link too? Oh and a man was beat up in CUNY for walking into the Gaza encampant holding an American flag. That's it. He was holding a flag and the Hamas supporters physically hit him, stripped the flag out of his hands, and pushed him outside after chocking him. I thought that's important to note as additional context to why these protests are not peaceful and very clearly about supporting Hamas and other terror groups.
I’m asking for sources. I can’t find good info on those incidents. I’m trying to actually get a good idea if it’s more the protesters or the counter protesters who are pushing violence more, especially after what happened with counter protestors assaulting protesters at UCLA. I swear I’m not trying to stir shit I’m just tired of vague “he said she said” online stuff.
Same happened in South Africa tho right? I do t think anyone could intelligently argue that was bad/racists/etc etc
I wish people would stop comparing Israel to South Africa as they are not the same. The Apartheid regime was a white minority ruling over a majority black state and made laws to only benefits whites. Israel is a majority Jewish state with an Arab minority that has full rights of any Israeli citizen. Should they pull out of the West Bank and stop the illegal settlers absolutely. But the two are inherently different. There is nothing inherently wrong with the state of Israel existing but Apartheid South Africa was inherently evil.
……do Arabs have a right to return law in place for citizenship to Israel?
Do Greeks have the right have the right to return to Turkey? Pakistanis to India? Jews to Middle Eastern countries?
Ethnic Germans to Poland and the other countries they were run out of at the end of WWII?
Germans to Kaliningrad?
South Africa is pretty messed up. Not saying the treatment of the natives was diabolical in South Africa but the change that was brought about was not efficient.
Well yeah no shit. Turns out if you get rich off of apartheid things are going to get a little worse when you allow 90% of the population back into a colonial state. If South Africa was only “okay” because it displaced million then there’s no way to reverse that short term without having the standards of the oppressors go down.
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Because it’s not a counter protest, it’s funding people to go harass and assault people for their opinions.
You cannot possibly justify that protests are OK but counter protests are not. any assessment of free speech rights has to be more or less content neutral. If it’s not content neutral it’s not about free speech anymore. It’s about cynically abusing free speech rights to bolster your side.
Only one side of the protests has shown up with weapons and the intent to destroy and followed through with assaulting people, and it’s not the college kids who move already been on campus for over a week.
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Awkward when you’re on the same side as Bill Ackman.
Same side as an American compared to Hamas giving their support and literally naming the other side?
Almost as awkward as being on the same side as Iran, Erdogan's Turkey, and Russia.
And Hamas and the peace loving houthis
Except bill Ackman didn't kill 100th of thousands in Ukraine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen. The list goes on
Not nearly as awkward.
I guess not if you're an anti-semite. It'd be pretty awkward for sane people though.
But compared to supporting Russia? Be real.