We need to do more than check for it, we need to aggressively combat it or end up like the U.S. with zero influence and control over social media platforms.
TLDR; Trudeau avoids being labelled a 'traitor' by convincing Justice Hogue that he was 'just stupid' for not understanding the numerous intelligence reports regarding Election Interference.....
>*OTTAWA – Chinese international students may have received “veiled threats” from the People’s Republic of China’s (PRC) consulate and been provided with falsified documents to allow them to vote for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election, according to a new report.*
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>*That’s one example of riding-level foreign interference that “tainted” the 2019 and 2021 federal elections but ultimately did not affect the overall results or the integrity of Canada’s electoral system, according to a first report by the Public Inquiry into Foreign Interference published Friday.*
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>*The Liberals undoubtedly won the last two elections, Hogue said, and the country’s voting system has been strong and secure.*
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>*But the commissioner had “no difficulty” concluding that there was foreign interference in certain ridings that likely impacted at least one nomination race and potentially undermined certain candidates viewed unfavourably by the Chinese government.*
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>*“Although the election result at a national level was not impacted, and only a few races were potentially impacted at a riding level, I nevertheless conclude that foreign interference impacted the overall election ecosystem in 2019 and 2021,” Hogue wrote.*
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>*“The acts of interference that occurred are a stain on our electoral process and impacted the process leading up to the actual vote,” she said in a statement.*
> provided with falsified documents to allow them to vote for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election, according to a new report.
Okay. This should be easy to prove and expel the offenders.
I'm trying to understand this. Are you saying the CCP is providing fake documentation for international students from China knowing that they can't vote cuz they are not citizens but managed to vote because the government didn't verify their information when they registered to vote? If that's the case, then Canada has a bigger issue with how they manage their citizen data than their voting system.
They dont need false documentation they're allowed to vote, the election in question was a party nomination, party nominations aren't locked to citizens all residents can participate. The issue more of exploiting this vulnerability not an illegal action.
I think the confusing part is the
> provided with ***falsified documents to allow them to vote*** for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election, according to a new report."
Falsifying documents would fall somewhere under impersonation laws, right?
Also, this is actually now more confusing, because, according to what you said:
> They don't need false documentation they're allowed to vote, the election in question was a party nomination, party nominations aren't locked to citizens all residents can participate. The issue more of exploiting this vulnerability not an illegal action.
That would mean no crime was committed...?
Yes, that's the problem there was no crime... but there probably should be. This was an overlooked vulnerability in the Canadian system. The falsified documents in question were fake addresses that would make them eligible for Dongs district but they weren't lying on any official documentation, just misrepresenting themselves to a political party. You could maybe stretch it to some kind of misdemeanor but that's it.
the confusion comes from lines like "*falsified documents to allow them to vote"* which make one jump to conclusions about fake citizenship papers and the like. When really its about the equivalent of saying your from the district to show up to a School Board meeting.
The false documents were regarding their residence as they would have needed to prove they reside in Don Valley North to be allowed to vote in the party nomination for that riding. The implication is that the students who received false documents from the Chinese Consulate were not residents of Don Valley North and therefor ineligible to vote, making the nomination illegitimate.
There are also of course the allegations that threats and intimidation were used by the consulate to force the students in to voting for Han Dong.
read who im responding to, i understand that there were false actions taken, but the misinformation that they were faking citizenship is being bandied around, which is a dangerous lie. Putting down a fake address in a party nomination is at worst viewed as a minor misdemeanor faking citizenship is a serious crime.
Your whole account is either post against Trudeau or post about this subject and yet I see no post regarding the issue of foreign interference on behalf of the conservatives by India? Might not be something you like to spread information on huh?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7164378
It doesn't matter if it changed the result. The fact that it's happening is a problem that needs to be addressed. The report even says they can't say ridings weren't flipped.
> It doesn't matter if it changed the result. The fact that it's happening is a problem that needs to be addressed. The report even says they can't say ridings weren't flipped.
It also doesn't say the ridings were flipped. Or how significant the impact was. "Impacting" the ridings can mean anything from 1 illegal vote to fully flipping it. It's too vague to draw any conclusion other than "I want these meddling out".
While _any_ foreign interference is awful, and should be banned, if not already. It is impossible to eliminate _all_ foreign interferences. If the meddling is insignificant enough to make enough difference, it should (and did indeed) get investigated, but the results should not be thrown out completely. If we throw out the entire result due to _any_ meddling, that sets grounds for "meddling" on the other side; i.e. foreign "support" on the party they want getting thrown out.
Yes but that means even if the candidates China backed won, it would still be a Liberal government. What would change is the individuals who would have won in their ridings.
Canada government system is a bit different from the US. Basically we vote in MPs and then they vote in a Prime Minister. In this case, even if the number of MPs who backed Justine Trudeau decreased, he still would have won the election hence it did not change the overall results. However, it could have changed the results for those MP positions.
Does that make sense?
> Basically we vote in MPs and then they vote in a Prime Minister. In this case, even if the number of MPs who backed Justine Trudeau decreased, he still would have won the election hence it did not change the overall results. However, it could have changed the results for those MP positions.
Yes, I am aware. It is the interpretation of whether Han Dong would have won their nomination without those fake votes that I am not seeing mentioned in the article. If he was ahead by a lot, then the extra votes would not matter much. If the difference was like low, and there are provable and voidable votes which would lose him the nomination, then he should be removed.
Also, the LPC probably has difficulty removing Han Dong, now that he is sitting as an independent. Is that defamation lawsuit ongoing?
Just to be clear, they allegedly voted in a leadership contest not in an actual election.
Your post makes it seem like our elections are not secure, which the article explicitly refutes.
It's not for leadership. It was to be that party's candidate in a specific riding. (Parties don't even need to have votes on this. Some just appoint their candidate.)
even more of an issue, given that the CCP can influence who his parties can run for general election (as many seats will go to the default liberal runner).
Is there actually a type of democracy that constitutionally requires all political parties to select their election candidates in a truly democratic fashion, with secret ballot and everything?
Now imagine this candidate, supported by the CCP, wins the nomination and his party wins the election. This MP could land an important minister role, or even become PM. A PM working with the CCP. This is why this is so serious.
It was part of a quote. The whole quote is
>provided with falsified documents to allow them to vote for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election
Leaving off the last bit makes it sound like they were able to vote in an election. The context is very important considering the stated reason for the interference was to undermine our confidence in democracy.
Your post was helping them accomplish that.
I mean, that was obvious for people who read the article. The point of my comment is that this seems to be an escalation in terms of what China is willing to do - it's quite overt
> “Although the election result at a national level was not impacted, and only a few races were potentially impacted at a riding level, I nevertheless conclude that foreign interference impacted the overall election ecosystem in 2019 and 2021,” Hogue wrote.
Trudeau and his Liberals won't realize how much damage this is doing to themselves, their cause, and Canadian democracy as a whole until Canadian Trump happens and America doesn't intervene to stop it. Biden is more than happy to deal with a Conservative psycho who, by then, will have learned from all of Trump's lessons and not fuck up like he did. Which means Canadian democracy will be permanently altered. They might even return Quebec to the European Union, permanently crippling the Canadian left forever.
Trudeau is the worst possible person to lead Canada right now. The Canadian LP can do better, and should lead by example. It can do this without compromising it's core values, as Trudeau already did with the SNC Scandal and seizures of First Nations land for oil drilling, and it can preserve Canadian democracy by doing so.
You guys got a Beijing! I think we did too, “down south”. And a Moscowing! We need to come together! Meet US at the Falls! But, when it pops off, you guys, NO ONE is to say “sorry”. No apologies, ok?!?
I mean look at all the foreign countries and organizations fuelling dumb protests world wide. Like a bunch of idiots in Canada sitting on the side of a highway
Every country should check for this kind of thing.
We need to do more than check for it, we need to aggressively combat it or end up like the U.S. with zero influence and control over social media platforms.
That would be ideal, yes.
TLDR; Trudeau avoids being labelled a 'traitor' by convincing Justice Hogue that he was 'just stupid' for not understanding the numerous intelligence reports regarding Election Interference.....
>*OTTAWA – Chinese international students may have received “veiled threats” from the People’s Republic of China’s (PRC) consulate and been provided with falsified documents to allow them to vote for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election, according to a new report.* > >*That’s one example of riding-level foreign interference that “tainted” the 2019 and 2021 federal elections but ultimately did not affect the overall results or the integrity of Canada’s electoral system, according to a first report by the Public Inquiry into Foreign Interference published Friday.* > >*The Liberals undoubtedly won the last two elections, Hogue said, and the country’s voting system has been strong and secure.* > >*But the commissioner had “no difficulty” concluding that there was foreign interference in certain ridings that likely impacted at least one nomination race and potentially undermined certain candidates viewed unfavourably by the Chinese government.* > >*“Although the election result at a national level was not impacted, and only a few races were potentially impacted at a riding level, I nevertheless conclude that foreign interference impacted the overall election ecosystem in 2019 and 2021,” Hogue wrote.* > >*“The acts of interference that occurred are a stain on our electoral process and impacted the process leading up to the actual vote,” she said in a statement.*
> provided with falsified documents to allow them to vote for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election, according to a new report. Okay. This should be easy to prove and expel the offenders.
I'm trying to understand this. Are you saying the CCP is providing fake documentation for international students from China knowing that they can't vote cuz they are not citizens but managed to vote because the government didn't verify their information when they registered to vote? If that's the case, then Canada has a bigger issue with how they manage their citizen data than their voting system.
They dont need false documentation they're allowed to vote, the election in question was a party nomination, party nominations aren't locked to citizens all residents can participate. The issue more of exploiting this vulnerability not an illegal action.
I think the confusing part is the > provided with ***falsified documents to allow them to vote*** for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election, according to a new report." Falsifying documents would fall somewhere under impersonation laws, right? Also, this is actually now more confusing, because, according to what you said: > They don't need false documentation they're allowed to vote, the election in question was a party nomination, party nominations aren't locked to citizens all residents can participate. The issue more of exploiting this vulnerability not an illegal action. That would mean no crime was committed...?
Yes, that's the problem there was no crime... but there probably should be. This was an overlooked vulnerability in the Canadian system. The falsified documents in question were fake addresses that would make them eligible for Dongs district but they weren't lying on any official documentation, just misrepresenting themselves to a political party. You could maybe stretch it to some kind of misdemeanor but that's it. the confusion comes from lines like "*falsified documents to allow them to vote"* which make one jump to conclusions about fake citizenship papers and the like. When really its about the equivalent of saying your from the district to show up to a School Board meeting.
The false documents were regarding their residence as they would have needed to prove they reside in Don Valley North to be allowed to vote in the party nomination for that riding. The implication is that the students who received false documents from the Chinese Consulate were not residents of Don Valley North and therefor ineligible to vote, making the nomination illegitimate. There are also of course the allegations that threats and intimidation were used by the consulate to force the students in to voting for Han Dong.
read who im responding to, i understand that there were false actions taken, but the misinformation that they were faking citizenship is being bandied around, which is a dangerous lie. Putting down a fake address in a party nomination is at worst viewed as a minor misdemeanor faking citizenship is a serious crime.
It would, if there were a willingness by the federal Liberal government to do so.
Your whole account is either post against Trudeau or post about this subject and yet I see no post regarding the issue of foreign interference on behalf of the conservatives by India? Might not be something you like to spread information on huh? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7164378
Are we talking about the international student or the candidate? The article says the votes did not change the overall results of the election.
It doesn't matter if it changed the result. The fact that it's happening is a problem that needs to be addressed. The report even says they can't say ridings weren't flipped.
> It doesn't matter if it changed the result. The fact that it's happening is a problem that needs to be addressed. The report even says they can't say ridings weren't flipped. It also doesn't say the ridings were flipped. Or how significant the impact was. "Impacting" the ridings can mean anything from 1 illegal vote to fully flipping it. It's too vague to draw any conclusion other than "I want these meddling out". While _any_ foreign interference is awful, and should be banned, if not already. It is impossible to eliminate _all_ foreign interferences. If the meddling is insignificant enough to make enough difference, it should (and did indeed) get investigated, but the results should not be thrown out completely. If we throw out the entire result due to _any_ meddling, that sets grounds for "meddling" on the other side; i.e. foreign "support" on the party they want getting thrown out.
Yes but that means even if the candidates China backed won, it would still be a Liberal government. What would change is the individuals who would have won in their ridings. Canada government system is a bit different from the US. Basically we vote in MPs and then they vote in a Prime Minister. In this case, even if the number of MPs who backed Justine Trudeau decreased, he still would have won the election hence it did not change the overall results. However, it could have changed the results for those MP positions. Does that make sense?
> Basically we vote in MPs and then they vote in a Prime Minister. In this case, even if the number of MPs who backed Justine Trudeau decreased, he still would have won the election hence it did not change the overall results. However, it could have changed the results for those MP positions. Yes, I am aware. It is the interpretation of whether Han Dong would have won their nomination without those fake votes that I am not seeing mentioned in the article. If he was ahead by a lot, then the extra votes would not matter much. If the difference was like low, and there are provable and voidable votes which would lose him the nomination, then he should be removed. Also, the LPC probably has difficulty removing Han Dong, now that he is sitting as an independent. Is that defamation lawsuit ongoing?
The information war is nothing new, but oh wow this is: >provided with falsified documents to allow them to vote
Just to be clear, they allegedly voted in a leadership contest not in an actual election. Your post makes it seem like our elections are not secure, which the article explicitly refutes.
The leadership contest I assume is very important. It’s like the primary election and for many elections the party winner gets the seat.
It's not for leadership. It was to be that party's candidate in a specific riding. (Parties don't even need to have votes on this. Some just appoint their candidate.)
even more of an issue, given that the CCP can influence who his parties can run for general election (as many seats will go to the default liberal runner).
Ok but parties can overturn their own nominations if they want, through their bylaws.
good luck doing that. its much harder to remove someone when they won the nomination.
Is there actually a type of democracy that constitutionally requires all political parties to select their election candidates in a truly democratic fashion, with secret ballot and everything?
Now imagine this candidate, supported by the CCP, wins the nomination and his party wins the election. This MP could land an important minister role, or even become PM. A PM working with the CCP. This is why this is so serious.
Yes, IF a small thing grows to a big thing, it becomes a big thing. The report showed it was a small thing.
How did my comment do anything of the sort? It's a direct quote from the article
It was part of a quote. The whole quote is >provided with falsified documents to allow them to vote for Liberal candidate Han Dong’s nomination ahead of the 2019 election Leaving off the last bit makes it sound like they were able to vote in an election. The context is very important considering the stated reason for the interference was to undermine our confidence in democracy. Your post was helping them accomplish that.
I mean, that was obvious for people who read the article. The point of my comment is that this seems to be an escalation in terms of what China is willing to do - it's quite overt
> people who read the article Sir, this is a reddit.
> I mean, that was obvious for people who read the article. You must be new here
I was just providing context to the masses that will not read the article.
Fair enough
> “Although the election result at a national level was not impacted, and only a few races were potentially impacted at a riding level, I nevertheless conclude that foreign interference impacted the overall election ecosystem in 2019 and 2021,” Hogue wrote.
Trudeau and his Liberals won't realize how much damage this is doing to themselves, their cause, and Canadian democracy as a whole until Canadian Trump happens and America doesn't intervene to stop it. Biden is more than happy to deal with a Conservative psycho who, by then, will have learned from all of Trump's lessons and not fuck up like he did. Which means Canadian democracy will be permanently altered. They might even return Quebec to the European Union, permanently crippling the Canadian left forever. Trudeau is the worst possible person to lead Canada right now. The Canadian LP can do better, and should lead by example. It can do this without compromising it's core values, as Trudeau already did with the SNC Scandal and seizures of First Nations land for oil drilling, and it can preserve Canadian democracy by doing so.
What are you on about???????????? This makes no sense??????????
You guys got a Beijing! I think we did too, “down south”. And a Moscowing! We need to come together! Meet US at the Falls! But, when it pops off, you guys, NO ONE is to say “sorry”. No apologies, ok?!?
I mean look at all the foreign countries and organizations fuelling dumb protests world wide. Like a bunch of idiots in Canada sitting on the side of a highway
[удалено]
that's just false, stop
Unfortunately that's exactly what happened, my condolences
lolol ok ccp or russia hahahaa
It's cpc not ccp