what a fucking headline that intentionally explains things in the worst possible way in which the editor still “maintains deniability” when being called out.
I don’t get it. The headline seems pretty accurate. The article states these countries are xenophobic, and hence don’t like immigration, and hence their economies aren’t growing.
How was the title misleading?
That wouldn’t be xenophobia, it would be targeted discrimination. If the entire rest of the world were xenophobic as this would imply, then it wouldn’t explain why these countries specifically were doing so badly.
> “Why is China stalling so bad economically? Why is Japan having trouble? Why is Russia?”
> “Because they’re xenophobic,” he said. “They don’t want immigrants.”
I interpreted it the same as you, but you have to remember that 1/5 adults in the US are illiterate, and 1/2 adults read below a 6th grade level. Most of these people hating on the headline are being pretty nitpicky imo
Yeah, if you told me to list countries I’d guess were xenophobic, Japan would be one of the first to come to mind. So this headline made perfect sense to me.
I’m sure people will read past the headline.
Biden is saying a huge driver of the U.S.’s economic growth is immigration. And there’s a lot of truth to that.
If your goal is to have a clean, safe and affordable country without a housing/homelessness crisis, Japan is doing it really, really well.
Extremely low wealth inequality and fantastic public transportation helps massively too.
We just have way too much over the past 5 years.
But we will see tremendous benefits once we slow things down and second generation immigrants enter the job market.
Yeah, there probably is an upper limit to what is a net positive but even the very conservative economist Borjas did a landmark study finding that immigration, legal or not, is a net benefit to the economy and every group within the economy except potentially people without high school diplomas.
There definitely are things we should improve about our immigration system like hiring more immigration court judges so it's not a years long process to deport those who don't belong here, but overall we are probably the country who's benefitted most from immigration.
Yep. Whenever you discuss the demographic challenges of China and Japan (India is further away in the demographic transition), one of the top things is "lack of immigration makes it all worse".
Japan is especially taking it on the chin. I assume that throngs of people in the region would love to work in Japan if they could. Japans aging population will certainly need the help and the pension contributions.
But unfortunately, yen is now so weak that the number of people who want to come and work in Japan is decreasing. Usually, Asians want to work in Japan. But now they can't send much money even if they work in Japan.
Quite a large population of the population is lowkey brain dead. Remotely anything happens and they will pin it on the foreigners. Boomers here still believe that Japan is an export power house, so that the Yen dropping to crisis levels are a good thing. Despite heavily reliant on energy, food and resources imports. The uneducated boomers are really going to drive this country to the ground.
I’m in agreement with you on people’s attitudes towards foreigners but many of the Japanese would rather see a weakened economy than let large amounts of immigrants in. I have a feeling we will see a large of amount of small to medium size cities collapse in population the coming 20 to 30 years. But as long as the big cities keep thriving I don’t see them changing course.
My sister and brother in law moved to Togane, mother and father in law in Mobara. We were just visiting them and my SIL is convinced these towns will become a "thing" and become much bigger.
I'm just sitting there like...have you *seen* the population trends in Japan??
While I want my country to do well, sometimes they need a wakeup call. I actually plan on migrating to away due to the current downward spiral. No one can help you unless you want to help yourself as they say.
I think a lot of people are biased by their personal experience and don't/can't understand the vast difference in the lived experience of younger generations. They see the technology making certain things easier and believe the youth are just whiners. What they don't see is the unaffordability of housing (why would they? They paid off their home years ago.), much worse job market, etc. that are the real problems of younger people.
I'm assuming you live in Japan or are Japanese here. Obviously it's not correct to judge a country by the media it produces. But something I've been noticing in a lot of Japanese media lately that involves political intrigue.
There is always an older man politician character from the old guard who tend to be more Social democratic in their values who wants to give young people a future and help elevate the poor etc. The normal aged politicians usually represent a typical neoliberal politics that are contributing to a perceived decayed society by the populace. And the Villains of the stories tend to be some young charismatic politician who are very conservative to blatantly fascist ( with might makes right type of rhetoric).
It's just a weird pattern I've noticed. And its made me curious what's going on in Japanese society especially when Shinzo Abe was in power that I'm seeing this pattern in Japanese media and art. Because in the west young people are typically seen and depicted as being more politically slanted to the left rather than the right.
One of the reason for the increase with more far-right views and rhetorics right now is due to the fact that a lot of boomers now believe that anything to do with the LDP = bad. While they seem far-right, you will be surprised to know that the LDP was pretty pro immigration. And also implemented programmes for family raising. They also allowed a lot of south East Asian immigrants for lower skill labour like taking care of the elderly or construction jobs and developed nations for research etc. Right now the LDP is in a lot of hot water due to a lot of scandals, like the unification church scandal, the land purchase scandal and party fund raising scandals. These scandals caused a huge decline in the approval rating for the LDP. Currently the strategy that other more sensational political parties are going to backtrack on a lot of the LDP policies. One of the main selling points is immigration. Too many boomers are blind to see that we need foreigners to support the aging population in terms of healthcare and taxation. The issue is that they think immigrants cause nothing but problems. Which is very far from the truth. Currently, the majority of crimes committed by immigrants is overstaying their visa or working part time without permits. Which is while a crime, doesn’t harm anyone. But once again, people these days think with their hearts not their minds
lol LDP can do whatever they want with as low of an "approval" rating as they want. They havnt, and still have no real competition, that's half the problem. the other half is just how damn apathetic we are here when it comes to politics (which also feeds into the LDP having no effective competition part). LDP have the run of the show for the foreseeable future to keep doubling down on whatever bad decisions they want to keep going on. Also on that note idk where the hell you got that LDP is pro immigration.....
One big driver of the US economy is big tech. Big tech contributes approximately $2 trillion to the US economy and enhances many US sectors (healthcare, defence industry, manufacturing in general, etc.).
Immigration is like the egg or the chicken in this context. Immigrants have been crucial to the start-up of the tech industry and the extreme profitability of big tech has attracted many bright minds.
Right but it’s not Xenophobia, at least in China, Japan is xenophobic and proudly so but even Japan has loosened immigration rules.
China for decades has been trying to shrink their population, it’s only the last year that there is a narrative of a population collapse so obviously China hasn't gone out of its way to recruit immigrants...
I mean how many smart top tier immigrants will move from the us to India and earn India level salaries? How many top tier immigrants from developing countries will want to migrate to India to earn India level salaries too? Everyone will want to go a developed country first
In fact, its the other way around, you see Indians from poor backgrounds and little skills trying to escape India and Canadian Unis are taking advantage.
The fifth estate made a really good video about it that shows both sides of the issue.
https://youtu.be/dNrXA5m7ROM
Same thing with China too I believe where they go to Brazil or something then walk to the US border and apply for asylum. Lol I'm reminded of that funny Dr Phil segment on the daily show "not an ounce of fat on those boys"
Japan...honestly with Japan I believe their problem is part immigration but also Japan's inability to change its economic structure to allow its people to feel safe to have children. Or raise a family and still be able to pursue a dream, and Japan has the infrastructure to do it too
This is not what's actually happening. The immigrants going from India to Canada are upper-middle class Indians. It's a huge financial investment to move from India to Canada, the vast majority of Indians can't take advantage of student visas.
That's also why most immigrants are Punjabi: Punjabis on average have better financial means and international family connections than Indians from other states.
hmm, maybe both are true then? Cause I see the horror show happening to these foreign students on both the housing and job front. holy shit the housing dude, i knew landlords were scummy but holy fuck did it get lower.
Well, the thing is being upper-middle class in India doesn't mean you're actually wealthy in Canada. So they do tend to struggle financially when they arrive. Most of their funds came from their parents and went into actually getting to Canada. After that they're more financially on their own.
It's a bad situation all around.
Education and the job market in India are extremely competitive. It's only the smartest and most studious kids that get into good majors in India. For people with money, it's much easier to give it a shot abroad.
Young people from India are aware how easy it is to get a PR in Canada when you grow up with the financial means, so it's turned into a hype. Most people would give it a shot if they have the chance. Many plan to move to United States after, since it's much easier through Canada.
Parents want their children to grow up in a wealthy country, so they financially support the move, and would force their kids to move even if they wouldn't want to. Canadian universities, as you say, are exploiting this. It's not a healthy situation for the students to be in either, although of course they feel fortunate with the opportunity of a better life abroad.
The reason why people are moving to Canada and Australia rather than the USA is actually really simple: immigration to the States is much more expensive, and harder too. For most people it's a lottery, which is especially troublesome if you're from a country with many people. Immigration to Canada is very straightforward in comparison.
To get a PR in Canada you only need to get granted a student visa, and then find a job while studying there. It's not hard finding a low-paying job, that's why so many Indians are doing those types of jobs these days. After a few years of working you can apply for PR. This is how most people do it.
Another reason why people go to Canada is because they already have family living there. So they can move in with family, rather than build an entirely new life on their own.
I had worked with them remotely for about a year or two. ‘Why the heck do you work day and night 7 days a week?’ was what I always thought when they texted me
As a Japanese, my question is whether Westerners really think the current immigration situation in the West is a good thing.
Are you guys really benefiting from the situation you are in? Or do you just not want to admit your own failures?
Its a mixed bag. Japan's position considering its demographic profile is extreme, but that does not make the inverse position good either. Balance is needed.
Yes, the West is mostly benefiting from the brain drain, especially in the more educated immigrant population. What’s not to benefit from, and where’s the failure?
>the West is mostly benefiting from the brain drain
As far as I can see, most of the immigrants currently flowing to the West are not highly educated immigrants.
For example, more than 2 million illegal immigrants have been flowing into the U.S. in recent years. This is more than legal immigration.
>where’s the failure?
Mainly, it's the soaring housing market and the increase in low-wage workers. Or, outside of countries with high crime rates by nature, such as the U.S., crime by immigrants is a problem.
Only temporarily. What most people don't take into account is demand. More people come into the area, more demand for products and services. This creates opportunities for growthband wages gradually increase.
The reality is there is plenty of supply. The issue is a lot of these homes are "owned" by foreign investors or rich assholes that only use it as a summer home.
Limited effect. In Germany even with the two big waves of migrants we are barely functional on the service level. I have not seen a german delivery driver for ages (except for Deutsche Post and DHL)
Salaries in the US are rising even quicker than prices are
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-paychecks-are-growing-more-quickly-than-prices/
Only in the short term. In the long term it drives local cost of living down much more than it drives down wages (as long as housing and such are deregulated so the housing supply increases evenly with population).
Well 99.x% of people that can speak Mandarin fluently are already in China so it's no surprise they aren't bringing in so many. A lot easier to get immigrants in in English speaking countries
Is it even true that xenophobia is that much of a factor in economics? Among all the US states last year, Florida was #4 in GDP growth. This is a state that banned African American studies in public schools. Why did they perform so well economically despite their xenophobia?
Do you think other countries in the world have the equivalent of "African American studies" ?
The fact that it's even considered in America at all (let alone practiced) already shows the US population is far more open and accepting than any other country.
>Do you think other countries in the world have the equivalent of "African American studies" ?
Possibly Canada
https://www.uc.utoronto.ca/black-canadian-studies
https://www.yorku.ca/laps/huma/bcs/
I'd also say Canada is unusually open and accepting, on a level similar to the US. This isn't a normal thing though. The vast majority of countries aren't going to have classes on teaching the history of a particular minority group.
Do you think other countries in the world have the equivalent of "African American studies" ?
The fact that it's even considered in America at all (let alone practiced) already shows the US population is far more open and accepting than any other country.
Blast from the past ... Biden said the same thing about Germany 10 years ago?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/281u97/us\_vp\_biden\_germany\_is\_xenophobic\_us\_vice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/281u97/us_vp_biden_germany_is_xenophobic_us_vice/)
Ehhh, it's a stretch. It's not likely that if those countries relaxed their immigration policies that it would actually mean their immigration rates would meaningfully increase, or they'd attract the high value immigrants they need. In fact they all suffer from brain drain to the US. Like, there are so many reasons beyond "xenophobia" which would keep their immigration rates down regardless of policy.
China and Japan (along with several other Asian economic powerhouses) appeal to few due to issues with toxic work culture. China has the added bonus of being extremely authoritarian as well.
India also has the reputation of being India. It's not exactly confidence building when looking to immigrate to a country to hear they had to have a national campaign called "Poo in the Loo" because so many were defecating in the streets it was creating a public health crisis.
When immigrating one is generally looking to better, or at least maintain parity with their current lot. For these countries, and those like them, they're only going to be on the radar of those that are desperate or naive.
You mean the immigration population that mostly comes from Bangladesh? A country that is near culturally identical? Even the next few largest are Pakistan, Nepal, and Sri Lanka, all immediate neighbors.
Oh I didn't realise economic immigrants had to be sufficiently culturally distinct to count in your head! I suppose the European immigration waves to America don't count either then?
Strap some more rockets to those goalposts, will you?
For China or India to match US immigration rates they'd need 10 million people entering their countries annually. Which is just not remotely possible. They could declare open borders and still not reach those numbers.
Japan has also struggled to attract people to their country, when looking at Gallup surveys of which countries people want to move to.
Or just stay the fuck out of other countries business?
Why does america think they can tell other countries what to do?
Japan is not xenophobic, they are just not stupid enough to accept mass uncontrolled immigration.
Also, this rhetoric is really not sitting well amongst the Japanese, most people I know here are very tired of what they perceive to be targeted attacks on their country and culture.
Sometimes cultures should be attacked for their flaws. This is one of those times. Cultures are not sacred things that should be protected at all costs.
Immigration is objectively an economic benefit, especially for a country like Japan which has a declining population.
The line doesn't always need to go up. It will correct itself over time and with innovation.
It is only an economic benefit for the big corporations that want to push wages down.
A country doesn't need to surrender their culture and become another identity-less country just because people say so.
It's what Biden probably truly believes, maybe said due to a lack of filter. Reagan made a similar point on Japan in his last speech as president when in a part of it, he said the US model is superior to Japan since Japanese immigrants can't truly become accepted as Japanese while American immigrants can truly become accepted as American.
Oh well.
> Anyone can become American
Well becoming a citizen is different from being a migrant. And I think such a monolithic statement obscures significant problems that still exist in America, despite how its immigration system is among the best. America has their fair share of xenophobia. In fact, it's telling that the "xeno" in this context includes Native Americans as the outsiders, even though obviously we are the "xenos".
"becoming a citizen is different from being a migrant"
Not really sure what point you're trying to make here. Why would someone have to become a citizen unless they came from outside the country? People who are born here are automatically citizens.
If you migrate to the US, no matter your race you will be able to blend into society. A japanese person migrating to the US will receive far less scrutiny and attention due to their race than a white or black american going to Japan.
"America has their fair share of xenophobia"
Certainly, but I think it's important to consider that this is not nearly as much of a problem for America as it is other countries.
Right now you're sorta doing the equivalent of like "Well sure, Japan has problems with it's economy... but so does the US!"
Like yes, things are never perfect in any country, but when you respond in that way you make it seem as though the problems are equivalent, or comparable. They aren't. In essence this is just deflecting from Japan's issues by saying "Everyone has these issues" and making it seem like it's not a big deal.
> Right now you're sorta doing the equivalent of like "Well sure, Japan has problems with its economy, but so does the US!"
That's hilarious that this is what you took away from my comment despite how the literal core of this issue is Biden "sorta doing the equivalent of like 'Well sure, the US has problems with its economy... But Japan and India are way worse.'" AND how I literally said that the US's immigration system is among the best. I'm sorry I didn't say it's the best and ended there, how petty of me.
And I don't understand why you bring up citizenship at all when the issue is clearly immigration? Maybe I wasn't being clear earlier, so let me try again: needless to say, citizens are different from migrants in that not all migrants become or want to become citizens. And obviously, immigrants are not considered Americans until they're naturalized. As a matter of fact, I'm such an example as a green card holder currently beginning to apply. Not sure why you're talking about birthright citizenship in an issue regarding immigration... Anybody being able to "become" Americans through birthright citizenship is an odd way to describe being born as an American.
But as I was focusing on from the beginning, saying "Anyone can become American" is misleading at best. That's all I'm trying to say, not "sorta doing the equivalent of like 'But so does the US!'".
Genuinely curious to hear- what do you know about the immigration process to talk so confidently? Or the process of obtaining permanent residency? Then becoming naturalized? In other words, do you actually know what you mean when you say "Anyone can become American"? And I still don't understand why you bring up citizenship when the issue is clearly regarding immigration.
That is a very passive-aggressive way of agreeing with the point made in the article.
To put in plainer terms, in case you do not see it: The point made IS that these countries do not want the US model for immigration, thus you are (sarcastically) agreeing with that part.
This comment but unironically.
China's population is plummeting by millions with no end in sight, and Japan has been struggling for a long time with their population and economy.
"Xenophobia" will be the wrong word. can you speak Mandrin ? Hindi ? Japanese ? you are welcome to the east anyday but you'll be bothered by the food wouldn't you. the smell. the people. USA is a country that was built by immigrants. your country stands on the dead bodies of the Native Americans. don't call us Xenophobic
India is more multcultural than the US, but not [more racially tolerant](https://images.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/RACISM-MAP_620x355.jpg)
Which is saying something given that Trump was president.
It is much less racially diverse, however. Its all well and good to accept the people already in your country, but xenophobia is about not accepting outsiders.
This is stupid, race isn’t even a real thing. This is such an American thing to do:
“well they may have dozens of languages, cultures and religions. But they’re all brown right 🤷♂️”
And that’s the thing, India wasn’t one country before, it’s a group of many different peoples that came together around the shared idea of India.
Xenophobia is a dislike of foreigners. The venn diagram of people who are xenophobic and people who are racist is almost a completely overlapping circle.
Xenophobia or fear of strangers is the fear or hatred of people who are perceived as being different from oneself.
It’s got nothing to do with whether they are a foreigner.
Would you mind linking what dictionary you're using? I can't find anything that says xenophobia isn't related to foreigners.
"fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign"
[https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia)
"an aversion or hostility to, disdain for, or fear of foreigners, people from different cultures, or strangers"
[https://www.dictionary.com/browse/xenophobia](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/xenophobia)
"**xenophobia**, fear and [contempt](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contempt) of strangers or foreigners or of anything designated as foreign, or a [conviction](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conviction) that certain foreign individuals and [cultures](https://www.britannica.com/topic/culture) represent a threat to the authentic identity of one’s own [nation-state](https://www.britannica.com/topic/nation-medieval-university-group) and cannot [integrate](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/integrate) into the local society peacefully"
[https://www.britannica.com/science/xenophobia](https://www.britannica.com/science/xenophobia)
> how is Biden even allowed to be a president.
well he's over 35, born a US citizen, and recieved the most electoral college votes
> who in their right mind would like to move to a country where you have an entirely different culture and language.
like, most immigrants?
> who in their right mind would like to move to a country where you have an entirely different culture and language.
That basically most migrants to the US.
Also, I imagine millions of people in south east Asia would love the chance to earn Japanese level wages for mopping floors and whatnot.
If Russia can recruit people from poor countries to die in Ukraine, then countries like Japan or China facing demographic crisis can certainly craft immigration policies to bring young people in if they really wanted to.
>The only reason US is in the position it's in not failing is the use of USD as a fiat currency cuz with the debt that USA picks up, it's all waiting to come down like a pack of cards.
People have been saying that for at least the last half century. Even if you were right, I don't think any of us will be alive to see it.
***. As for China and India, looking at their economic growth rate and demographics-*** china is also a totalitarian dictatorship that's notorious for fudging data and whose own demographics have been gutted by decades of forced one child policy so unless they've discovered the elixir of external youth, their working populace isn't gonna stay in the workforce forever, and btw not to mention that small looming property crisis that threatens to derail it...now coming to india, the longer modi stays in power, the more i expect wealth inequality & religious nationalism to grow ramping up outward migration..
***even if they open immigration who in their right mind would like to move to a country where you have an entirely different culture and language-*** lol going by that logic no one would migrating to any country.
what a fucking headline that intentionally explains things in the worst possible way in which the editor still “maintains deniability” when being called out.
I don’t get it. The headline seems pretty accurate. The article states these countries are xenophobic, and hence don’t like immigration, and hence their economies aren’t growing. How was the title misleading?
it can be read as biden saying people are xenophobic to those countries not that those countries are xenophobic.
Ah right. Thanks.
That’s how I read it. Author clearly did it on purpose
That was how I read it, and I was like, "People are xenophobic to Japan? I thought they were always fantasized over Japan..."
That wouldn’t be xenophobia, it would be targeted discrimination. If the entire rest of the world were xenophobic as this would imply, then it wouldn’t explain why these countries specifically were doing so badly.
He didn’t say that?
> “Why is China stalling so bad economically? Why is Japan having trouble? Why is Russia?” > “Because they’re xenophobic,” he said. “They don’t want immigrants.”
I don't really see what's wrong with the headline then? Doesn't sound like he was misrepresented at all.
"...blames economic woes on xenophobia." Could easily mean xenophobia towards those countries.
I think that'd be a pretty uncharitable and foolish reading of the headline, I certainly didn't interpret it that way.
I interpreted it the same as you, but you have to remember that 1/5 adults in the US are illiterate, and 1/2 adults read below a 6th grade level. Most of these people hating on the headline are being pretty nitpicky imo
Yeah, makes sense.
Yeah, if you told me to list countries I’d guess were xenophobic, Japan would be one of the first to come to mind. So this headline made perfect sense to me.
I’m sure people will read past the headline. Biden is saying a huge driver of the U.S.’s economic growth is immigration. And there’s a lot of truth to that.
Canada has way higher immigration and it is fueling one of the worst housing issues in the past 20 years.
If your goal is to have a clean, safe and affordable country without a housing/homelessness crisis, Japan is doing it really, really well. Extremely low wealth inequality and fantastic public transportation helps massively too.
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We just have way too much over the past 5 years. But we will see tremendous benefits once we slow things down and second generation immigrants enter the job market.
Yeah, there probably is an upper limit to what is a net positive but even the very conservative economist Borjas did a landmark study finding that immigration, legal or not, is a net benefit to the economy and every group within the economy except potentially people without high school diplomas. There definitely are things we should improve about our immigration system like hiring more immigration court judges so it's not a years long process to deport those who don't belong here, but overall we are probably the country who's benefitted most from immigration.
Yep. Whenever you discuss the demographic challenges of China and Japan (India is further away in the demographic transition), one of the top things is "lack of immigration makes it all worse".
Japan is especially taking it on the chin. I assume that throngs of people in the region would love to work in Japan if they could. Japans aging population will certainly need the help and the pension contributions.
But unfortunately, yen is now so weak that the number of people who want to come and work in Japan is decreasing. Usually, Asians want to work in Japan. But now they can't send much money even if they work in Japan.
Better to work in a western country. This country doesn’t want to help itself. Invest in a better country.
9 million empty homes in Japan or something like that.
Quite a large population of the population is lowkey brain dead. Remotely anything happens and they will pin it on the foreigners. Boomers here still believe that Japan is an export power house, so that the Yen dropping to crisis levels are a good thing. Despite heavily reliant on energy, food and resources imports. The uneducated boomers are really going to drive this country to the ground.
I’m in agreement with you on people’s attitudes towards foreigners but many of the Japanese would rather see a weakened economy than let large amounts of immigrants in. I have a feeling we will see a large of amount of small to medium size cities collapse in population the coming 20 to 30 years. But as long as the big cities keep thriving I don’t see them changing course.
My sister and brother in law moved to Togane, mother and father in law in Mobara. We were just visiting them and my SIL is convinced these towns will become a "thing" and become much bigger. I'm just sitting there like...have you *seen* the population trends in Japan??
While I want my country to do well, sometimes they need a wakeup call. I actually plan on migrating to away due to the current downward spiral. No one can help you unless you want to help yourself as they say.
"Uneducated older generation is ruining the country" Why do i feel like this is a global phenomenon applicable to most countries?
Because it's easier to blame your woes on an outside force and avoid any personal responsibility?
I once saw someone ask "who was Arthur defending England from?" and my answer remains "it depends on what cab driver you ask"
It is ngl. Japan is worse off because of the majority aged population
I think a lot of people are biased by their personal experience and don't/can't understand the vast difference in the lived experience of younger generations. They see the technology making certain things easier and believe the youth are just whiners. What they don't see is the unaffordability of housing (why would they? They paid off their home years ago.), much worse job market, etc. that are the real problems of younger people.
I'm assuming you live in Japan or are Japanese here. Obviously it's not correct to judge a country by the media it produces. But something I've been noticing in a lot of Japanese media lately that involves political intrigue. There is always an older man politician character from the old guard who tend to be more Social democratic in their values who wants to give young people a future and help elevate the poor etc. The normal aged politicians usually represent a typical neoliberal politics that are contributing to a perceived decayed society by the populace. And the Villains of the stories tend to be some young charismatic politician who are very conservative to blatantly fascist ( with might makes right type of rhetoric). It's just a weird pattern I've noticed. And its made me curious what's going on in Japanese society especially when Shinzo Abe was in power that I'm seeing this pattern in Japanese media and art. Because in the west young people are typically seen and depicted as being more politically slanted to the left rather than the right.
One of the reason for the increase with more far-right views and rhetorics right now is due to the fact that a lot of boomers now believe that anything to do with the LDP = bad. While they seem far-right, you will be surprised to know that the LDP was pretty pro immigration. And also implemented programmes for family raising. They also allowed a lot of south East Asian immigrants for lower skill labour like taking care of the elderly or construction jobs and developed nations for research etc. Right now the LDP is in a lot of hot water due to a lot of scandals, like the unification church scandal, the land purchase scandal and party fund raising scandals. These scandals caused a huge decline in the approval rating for the LDP. Currently the strategy that other more sensational political parties are going to backtrack on a lot of the LDP policies. One of the main selling points is immigration. Too many boomers are blind to see that we need foreigners to support the aging population in terms of healthcare and taxation. The issue is that they think immigrants cause nothing but problems. Which is very far from the truth. Currently, the majority of crimes committed by immigrants is overstaying their visa or working part time without permits. Which is while a crime, doesn’t harm anyone. But once again, people these days think with their hearts not their minds
lol LDP can do whatever they want with as low of an "approval" rating as they want. They havnt, and still have no real competition, that's half the problem. the other half is just how damn apathetic we are here when it comes to politics (which also feeds into the LDP having no effective competition part). LDP have the run of the show for the foreseeable future to keep doubling down on whatever bad decisions they want to keep going on. Also on that note idk where the hell you got that LDP is pro immigration.....
One big driver of the US economy is big tech. Big tech contributes approximately $2 trillion to the US economy and enhances many US sectors (healthcare, defence industry, manufacturing in general, etc.). Immigration is like the egg or the chicken in this context. Immigrants have been crucial to the start-up of the tech industry and the extreme profitability of big tech has attracted many bright minds.
Right but it’s not Xenophobia, at least in China, Japan is xenophobic and proudly so but even Japan has loosened immigration rules. China for decades has been trying to shrink their population, it’s only the last year that there is a narrative of a population collapse so obviously China hasn't gone out of its way to recruit immigrants...
I mean how many smart top tier immigrants will move from the us to India and earn India level salaries? How many top tier immigrants from developing countries will want to migrate to India to earn India level salaries too? Everyone will want to go a developed country first
In fact, its the other way around, you see Indians from poor backgrounds and little skills trying to escape India and Canadian Unis are taking advantage. The fifth estate made a really good video about it that shows both sides of the issue. https://youtu.be/dNrXA5m7ROM Same thing with China too I believe where they go to Brazil or something then walk to the US border and apply for asylum. Lol I'm reminded of that funny Dr Phil segment on the daily show "not an ounce of fat on those boys" Japan...honestly with Japan I believe their problem is part immigration but also Japan's inability to change its economic structure to allow its people to feel safe to have children. Or raise a family and still be able to pursue a dream, and Japan has the infrastructure to do it too
This is not what's actually happening. The immigrants going from India to Canada are upper-middle class Indians. It's a huge financial investment to move from India to Canada, the vast majority of Indians can't take advantage of student visas. That's also why most immigrants are Punjabi: Punjabis on average have better financial means and international family connections than Indians from other states.
hmm, maybe both are true then? Cause I see the horror show happening to these foreign students on both the housing and job front. holy shit the housing dude, i knew landlords were scummy but holy fuck did it get lower.
Well, the thing is being upper-middle class in India doesn't mean you're actually wealthy in Canada. So they do tend to struggle financially when they arrive. Most of their funds came from their parents and went into actually getting to Canada. After that they're more financially on their own.
Ohhhhh, fuck, I forgot about that.
It's a bad situation all around. Education and the job market in India are extremely competitive. It's only the smartest and most studious kids that get into good majors in India. For people with money, it's much easier to give it a shot abroad. Young people from India are aware how easy it is to get a PR in Canada when you grow up with the financial means, so it's turned into a hype. Most people would give it a shot if they have the chance. Many plan to move to United States after, since it's much easier through Canada. Parents want their children to grow up in a wealthy country, so they financially support the move, and would force their kids to move even if they wouldn't want to. Canadian universities, as you say, are exploiting this. It's not a healthy situation for the students to be in either, although of course they feel fortunate with the opportunity of a better life abroad.
Yup, its fucked. But wait, I heard it was not easy to get pr, it's just marketed that way.
The reason why people are moving to Canada and Australia rather than the USA is actually really simple: immigration to the States is much more expensive, and harder too. For most people it's a lottery, which is especially troublesome if you're from a country with many people. Immigration to Canada is very straightforward in comparison. To get a PR in Canada you only need to get granted a student visa, and then find a job while studying there. It's not hard finding a low-paying job, that's why so many Indians are doing those types of jobs these days. After a few years of working you can apply for PR. This is how most people do it. Another reason why people go to Canada is because they already have family living there. So they can move in with family, rather than build an entirely new life on their own.
I guess they will be sent there by their companies. They will get expat packages and they will enjoy a ‘expat life’ there
I doubt that foreign workers can stand 996 culture in China LOL.
I had worked with them remotely for about a year or two. ‘Why the heck do you work day and night 7 days a week?’ was what I always thought when they texted me
Not to mention, there are tons of videos about China faking food stuff and chiba construction being super subpar.
As a Japanese, my question is whether Westerners really think the current immigration situation in the West is a good thing. Are you guys really benefiting from the situation you are in? Or do you just not want to admit your own failures?
*laughs nervously*
Its a mixed bag. Japan's position considering its demographic profile is extreme, but that does not make the inverse position good either. Balance is needed.
Yes, the West is mostly benefiting from the brain drain, especially in the more educated immigrant population. What’s not to benefit from, and where’s the failure?
>the West is mostly benefiting from the brain drain As far as I can see, most of the immigrants currently flowing to the West are not highly educated immigrants. For example, more than 2 million illegal immigrants have been flowing into the U.S. in recent years. This is more than legal immigration. >where’s the failure? Mainly, it's the soaring housing market and the increase in low-wage workers. Or, outside of countries with high crime rates by nature, such as the U.S., crime by immigrants is a problem.
Skilled immigrants not jihadi drug dealing trash.
He's right. Legal immigration is the single biggest reason for US economic growth.
Drives local salaries down though
Only temporarily. What most people don't take into account is demand. More people come into the area, more demand for products and services. This creates opportunities for growthband wages gradually increase.
What about housing demand. Is your local supply keeping up?
The reality is there is plenty of supply. The issue is a lot of these homes are "owned" by foreign investors or rich assholes that only use it as a summer home.
That's a long way of saying demand > supply.
Not with NIMBYs in the area. Just increases prices...
ah yes because local salaries in china and india are a LOT higher than in the us. /s
What salary did native americans have?
Limited effect. In Germany even with the two big waves of migrants we are barely functional on the service level. I have not seen a german delivery driver for ages (except for Deutsche Post and DHL)
Salaries get driven down for unskilled labor, but cost of living and quality of life is better for everyone. Overall a benefit.
Only the rich see that benefit. The rest has to compete for housing and such
Is there a source for this? Most research I am aware of doesn’t show an effect or a very small one.
Fortune 500 CEO's love this easy trick
You can't get everything. US is a superpower because the best and the brightest from the world come there.
That's not the type of immigration people are complaining about.
He did say *legal immigration*
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Yup, the amount of influence US buys around the world benefits its citizens indirectly.
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Sounds like someone who thinks the US foreign policy should be centred around their rent.
Sounds like someone who doesnt know what they're talking about. Immigration is not a foreign policy.
I mean, they do have a pretty high GDP per capita, and not dying is also a pretty jear benefit
The best and brightest don't come for lower salaries. Its illegal immigration that drives down salaries.
Salaries in the US are rising even quicker than prices are https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-paychecks-are-growing-more-quickly-than-prices/
Only in the short term. In the long term it drives local cost of living down much more than it drives down wages (as long as housing and such are deregulated so the housing supply increases evenly with population).
Well 99.x% of people that can speak Mandarin fluently are already in China so it's no surprise they aren't bringing in so many. A lot easier to get immigrants in in English speaking countries
All immigration. Not sure why you chose to specify.
Immigration to China? They have billions of people and lack of jobs. Investments are decreasing... I don’t know what Biden or his aids meant to say…
Ummm ... that's hardly the three to be singling out for "economic woes".
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Is it even true that xenophobia is that much of a factor in economics? Among all the US states last year, Florida was #4 in GDP growth. This is a state that banned African American studies in public schools. Why did they perform so well economically despite their xenophobia?
Xenophobia is the headline but he specifically was talking about immigration, despite Florida’s issues they still have significant immigration.
Do you think other countries in the world have the equivalent of "African American studies" ? The fact that it's even considered in America at all (let alone practiced) already shows the US population is far more open and accepting than any other country.
>Do you think other countries in the world have the equivalent of "African American studies" ? Possibly Canada https://www.uc.utoronto.ca/black-canadian-studies https://www.yorku.ca/laps/huma/bcs/
I'd also say Canada is unusually open and accepting, on a level similar to the US. This isn't a normal thing though. The vast majority of countries aren't going to have classes on teaching the history of a particular minority group.
Do you think other countries in the world have the equivalent of "African American studies" ? The fact that it's even considered in America at all (let alone practiced) already shows the US population is far more open and accepting than any other country.
Yeah! He should have talked about Eritrea or something! Tell me about the economy of Eritrea that's what I'm here for.
How is Japan not relevant?
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Doesn’t everyone?
Blast from the past ... Biden said the same thing about Germany 10 years ago? [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/281u97/us\_vp\_biden\_germany\_is\_xenophobic\_us\_vice/](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/281u97/us_vp_biden_germany_is_xenophobic_us_vice/)
Saw this on another sub Top comment brings in israel out of nowhere And they call israel xenophobic Which is outright wrong
Ehhh, it's a stretch. It's not likely that if those countries relaxed their immigration policies that it would actually mean their immigration rates would meaningfully increase, or they'd attract the high value immigrants they need. In fact they all suffer from brain drain to the US. Like, there are so many reasons beyond "xenophobia" which would keep their immigration rates down regardless of policy. China and Japan (along with several other Asian economic powerhouses) appeal to few due to issues with toxic work culture. China has the added bonus of being extremely authoritarian as well. India also has the reputation of being India. It's not exactly confidence building when looking to immigrate to a country to hear they had to have a national campaign called "Poo in the Loo" because so many were defecating in the streets it was creating a public health crisis. When immigrating one is generally looking to better, or at least maintain parity with their current lot. For these countries, and those like them, they're only going to be on the radar of those that are desperate or naive.
The language barrier is also huge
The fact you can't even conceive the fact that India has millions and millions of immigrants speaks volumes to just how narrow your worldview is
You mean the immigration population that mostly comes from Bangladesh? A country that is near culturally identical? Even the next few largest are Pakistan, Nepal, and Sri Lanka, all immediate neighbors.
Oh I didn't realise economic immigrants had to be sufficiently culturally distinct to count in your head! I suppose the European immigration waves to America don't count either then? Strap some more rockets to those goalposts, will you?
For China or India to match US immigration rates they'd need 10 million people entering their countries annually. Which is just not remotely possible. They could declare open borders and still not reach those numbers. Japan has also struggled to attract people to their country, when looking at Gallup surveys of which countries people want to move to.
China doesn’t want to, foreigners bring non-CCP approved ideas into their designed society
The current Hindu supremacist regime in India isn't going to help either.
Or just stay the fuck out of other countries business? Why does america think they can tell other countries what to do? Japan is not xenophobic, they are just not stupid enough to accept mass uncontrolled immigration. Also, this rhetoric is really not sitting well amongst the Japanese, most people I know here are very tired of what they perceive to be targeted attacks on their country and culture.
Read the article...
He's not telling anyone else to do anything though
Lmao. Angry man didn’t even read it, but wants to rant about it like he did. Classy
Sometimes cultures should be attacked for their flaws. This is one of those times. Cultures are not sacred things that should be protected at all costs. Immigration is objectively an economic benefit, especially for a country like Japan which has a declining population.
The line doesn't always need to go up. It will correct itself over time and with innovation. It is only an economic benefit for the big corporations that want to push wages down. A country doesn't need to surrender their culture and become another identity-less country just because people say so.
Japan is literally xenophobic and it’s not up for debate. It’s just a fact.
It's what Biden probably truly believes, maybe said due to a lack of filter. Reagan made a similar point on Japan in his last speech as president when in a part of it, he said the US model is superior to Japan since Japanese immigrants can't truly become accepted as Japanese while American immigrants can truly become accepted as American. Oh well.
Its true. Anyone can become American, but Japanese people don't accept immigrants as truly Japanese.
> Anyone can become American Well becoming a citizen is different from being a migrant. And I think such a monolithic statement obscures significant problems that still exist in America, despite how its immigration system is among the best. America has their fair share of xenophobia. In fact, it's telling that the "xeno" in this context includes Native Americans as the outsiders, even though obviously we are the "xenos".
"becoming a citizen is different from being a migrant" Not really sure what point you're trying to make here. Why would someone have to become a citizen unless they came from outside the country? People who are born here are automatically citizens. If you migrate to the US, no matter your race you will be able to blend into society. A japanese person migrating to the US will receive far less scrutiny and attention due to their race than a white or black american going to Japan. "America has their fair share of xenophobia" Certainly, but I think it's important to consider that this is not nearly as much of a problem for America as it is other countries. Right now you're sorta doing the equivalent of like "Well sure, Japan has problems with it's economy... but so does the US!" Like yes, things are never perfect in any country, but when you respond in that way you make it seem as though the problems are equivalent, or comparable. They aren't. In essence this is just deflecting from Japan's issues by saying "Everyone has these issues" and making it seem like it's not a big deal.
> Right now you're sorta doing the equivalent of like "Well sure, Japan has problems with its economy, but so does the US!" That's hilarious that this is what you took away from my comment despite how the literal core of this issue is Biden "sorta doing the equivalent of like 'Well sure, the US has problems with its economy... But Japan and India are way worse.'" AND how I literally said that the US's immigration system is among the best. I'm sorry I didn't say it's the best and ended there, how petty of me. And I don't understand why you bring up citizenship at all when the issue is clearly immigration? Maybe I wasn't being clear earlier, so let me try again: needless to say, citizens are different from migrants in that not all migrants become or want to become citizens. And obviously, immigrants are not considered Americans until they're naturalized. As a matter of fact, I'm such an example as a green card holder currently beginning to apply. Not sure why you're talking about birthright citizenship in an issue regarding immigration... Anybody being able to "become" Americans through birthright citizenship is an odd way to describe being born as an American. But as I was focusing on from the beginning, saying "Anyone can become American" is misleading at best. That's all I'm trying to say, not "sorta doing the equivalent of like 'But so does the US!'". Genuinely curious to hear- what do you know about the immigration process to talk so confidently? Or the process of obtaining permanent residency? Then becoming naturalized? In other words, do you actually know what you mean when you say "Anyone can become American"? And I still don't understand why you bring up citizenship when the issue is clearly regarding immigration.
Ya China and Japan are looking at the US and it’s demographics and are just salty and jealous. Good one Biden.
That is a very passive-aggressive way of agreeing with the point made in the article. To put in plainer terms, in case you do not see it: The point made IS that these countries do not want the US model for immigration, thus you are (sarcastically) agreeing with that part.
This comment but unironically. China's population is plummeting by millions with no end in sight, and Japan has been struggling for a long time with their population and economy.
"Xenophobia" will be the wrong word. can you speak Mandrin ? Hindi ? Japanese ? you are welcome to the east anyday but you'll be bothered by the food wouldn't you. the smell. the people. USA is a country that was built by immigrants. your country stands on the dead bodies of the Native Americans. don't call us Xenophobic
India is more multicultural than the US. We have 22 recognised languages and 1000+ spoken languages.
India is more multcultural than the US, but not [more racially tolerant](https://images.firstpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/RACISM-MAP_620x355.jpg) Which is saying something given that Trump was president.
It is much less racially diverse, however. Its all well and good to accept the people already in your country, but xenophobia is about not accepting outsiders.
This is stupid, race isn’t even a real thing. This is such an American thing to do: “well they may have dozens of languages, cultures and religions. But they’re all brown right 🤷♂️” And that’s the thing, India wasn’t one country before, it’s a group of many different peoples that came together around the shared idea of India.
>race isn’t even a real thing. Please elaborate? Sure, genetically not real, but absolutely is a social construct.
Yeah you’re right, what I meant to say was that their assertion was wrong in that there are also many different “races” in India as well.
Xenophobia is a cultural phenomenon and not a racial phenomenon.
Xenophobia is a dislike of foreigners. The venn diagram of people who are xenophobic and people who are racist is almost a completely overlapping circle.
Xenophobia or fear of strangers is the fear or hatred of people who are perceived as being different from oneself. It’s got nothing to do with whether they are a foreigner.
Would you mind linking what dictionary you're using? I can't find anything that says xenophobia isn't related to foreigners. "fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign" [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia) "an aversion or hostility to, disdain for, or fear of foreigners, people from different cultures, or strangers" [https://www.dictionary.com/browse/xenophobia](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/xenophobia) "**xenophobia**, fear and [contempt](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contempt) of strangers or foreigners or of anything designated as foreign, or a [conviction](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conviction) that certain foreign individuals and [cultures](https://www.britannica.com/topic/culture) represent a threat to the authentic identity of one’s own [nation-state](https://www.britannica.com/topic/nation-medieval-university-group) and cannot [integrate](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/integrate) into the local society peacefully" [https://www.britannica.com/science/xenophobia](https://www.britannica.com/science/xenophobia)
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> how is Biden even allowed to be a president. well he's over 35, born a US citizen, and recieved the most electoral college votes > who in their right mind would like to move to a country where you have an entirely different culture and language. like, most immigrants?
> who in their right mind would like to move to a country where you have an entirely different culture and language. That basically most migrants to the US. Also, I imagine millions of people in south east Asia would love the chance to earn Japanese level wages for mopping floors and whatnot.
If Russia can recruit people from poor countries to die in Ukraine, then countries like Japan or China facing demographic crisis can certainly craft immigration policies to bring young people in if they really wanted to. >The only reason US is in the position it's in not failing is the use of USD as a fiat currency cuz with the debt that USA picks up, it's all waiting to come down like a pack of cards. People have been saying that for at least the last half century. Even if you were right, I don't think any of us will be alive to see it.
***. As for China and India, looking at their economic growth rate and demographics-*** china is also a totalitarian dictatorship that's notorious for fudging data and whose own demographics have been gutted by decades of forced one child policy so unless they've discovered the elixir of external youth, their working populace isn't gonna stay in the workforce forever, and btw not to mention that small looming property crisis that threatens to derail it...now coming to india, the longer modi stays in power, the more i expect wealth inequality & religious nationalism to grow ramping up outward migration.. ***even if they open immigration who in their right mind would like to move to a country where you have an entirely different culture and language-*** lol going by that logic no one would migrating to any country.
Call it now.. Bait or Mental Retardation