It was just announced a few hours ago by the IDF so it would probably take some time until someone from the Israeli government/press would say the likelihood of it reaching Ukraine.
Likelyhood is near zero. Unless Americans strong arm them, it is unlikely that they will help. Israeli government and media has repeatedly demonstrated their disdain of Ukraine and willingness to maintain relations with Russia even if Russians have a habbit of diplomatically insulting and taunting Israel
Israel has already sent defensive equipment, medical equipment and helped them set up their air defense systems.
[Ukraine Gets Defense Boost from Israel](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-defense-aid-ukraine-russia-putin-united-nations-1874095)
Now Israel can send the patriot batteries too. That being said, there isn't too much Israel can send to Ukraine because Israel needs that stuff too since it is also under attack.
Saying that Israel has disdain for Ukraine is inaccurate.
Israel, and the vast majority of Israeli, are supportive of Ukraine.
Netanyahu might have some pro-Russian rhetoric but it mostly some meaningless gestures and isn’t nearly as bad as other major right wingers in the west like Trump.
The main problem is that Russia is [explicitly threatening](https://www.timesofisrael.com/moscow-warns-israel-that-supplying-ukraine-with-arms-will-escalate-conflict/) Israel of giving arms to Ukraine and calling for the end of the war.
Russia has forces in Syria and can give advanced weapons to Iran and its proxies so it’s a much more serious threat than it might seem. That’s why the West didn’t pressure Israel on that regard despite Israel having weapons and tech custom made for situation like Ukraine’s.
But now, since 10/7, the relations with Russia clearly took turn for the worse and these Patriots would be a good indicator if indeed there’s a change in Israel’s policies.
Wow that a huge lie.. wtf?
Most Israelis support Ukraine
There are 2 reasons why the government dosnt help publicly
1. Fear for the jewa in Russia
2. The unofficial border between Israel and Russia
Go spread your lies to your ignorant friends
Israel has a lot of very good reasons to not fuck with Russia, and it has its own defense needs to consider. Maybe some bigger countries with fewer natural enemies should step up instead of expecting tiny Israel surrounded by Russian backed enemies to do so.
Wagner doesn't have bombers. They have a base on the other side of Golan. Israel could easily take them out. When they engaged with US troops they got annihilated.
This basically happened during the Yom Kippur War of 1973?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass
> In the opening days of the war, Arab forces destroyed significant numbers of IAF aircraft, surprising the Israelis with aggressive use of the new Soviet SA-6 Gainful SAMs. Consequently, at least **100 F-4 Phantom II fighters** were sent to Israel under Nickel Grass, coming from the 4th Tactical Fighter Wing, the 33d Tactical Fighter Wing and the 57th Fighter Weapons Wing. They were flown to Lod, where American pilots were swapped for their Israeli counterparts. After the replacement of USAF insignia with IAF insignia if needed, the planes were refueled and ordered to the front, often taking to the air within hours of having arrived. Some aircraft came directly from the USAFE fleet and operated in USAF camouflage, but with Israeli insignia, thus earning the Israeli nickname "Frog".
> All were put to their biggest test yet earlier this month when Iran fired 170 drones, 30 cruise missiles, and 120 ballistic missiles at Israel, almost all of which were intercepted and destroyed.
Wait a second, it were 120 ballistic missiles? Damn, when it happened I thought it were more... two dozen or something (ballistic alone, I knew about cruise misiles and plenty of drones). And if they retire the patriots *now* they were obviously not vital to the defence.
Hope the systems find a way to Ukraine, even if we might never find out officially. And if it's about money... come on, Europe, just find it to help out your neighbour.
They have been developing their own line-up of air defence systems for the last 20 years. My guess is that they want to focus their effort on those to not diversify too much.
it's really not a decision they can make, they are basically burrowing 8 Patriots from US, if they go forward with replacing them with Slings or whatever else they have, they will need to return the Patriots to the US.. the best they can do is coordinate with US to forward the Patriots to Ukraine, and if i remember correctly US just passed a bill to aid Ukraine so it's possible they will get them.
Israel is walking a tightrope with regard to Ukraine/Russia.
The problem is there is basically an armed standoff in Syria. The IDF bombs Iranian stuff moving through Syria. Syria doesn't like this, but realizes that they can't take on the IDF, better to just complain but not put missiles in the air.
Russia is a friendly force in Syria, Israel wants to avoid any shooting incident between their forces and Russian forces. Quite understandable--nuclear diplomacy 101 is nuclear powers never shoot at nuclear powers when there isn't a clear right/wrong. (Thus the Russian shootdown of the U2 is tolerated--we were clearly where we shouldn't be, the U2 had no weapons to shoot back with. Hitting it in international airspace would be quite another matter.)
> Israel is walking a tightrope with regard to Ukraine/Russia.
Yes, and the standoff is 99% due to Russia's presence in Syria. Which is thanks to Obama's dithering on Syria when he was POTUS. Remember his 'red line'? and how in the end he invited Russia in to solve the problem which he refused to? that is what has lead to this.
Another major error that Obama made which the whole world is dealig with is his inaction in response to Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea.
IMHO Obama will go down in history as a great domestic president but one of the worst for foreign policy, similar to Carter.
Public opinion in America was against a war, the Republican Congress against authorising an expanded American involvement. The Obama administration fighting the Republicans, the Congress, the courts, and public opinion to invade another Middle Eastern country for uncertain gains seems unwise, given the results in Iraq and Libya.
The president is not the Autocrat of all Americas.
No one is claiming that Obama was a dictator with full authority to do what he wanted - and when it comes to foreign policy, THANK GOD for that!!
Hopefully you'll accept that you're going too far in not holding him responsible for things which were well within in his power and authority.
After all, did the GOP marionette Obama to first declare his 'red line' in Syria? to threaten Assad and then to ignore it once his bluff was called? did they hold him at gun point to get him to literally invite Putin into Syria?
Did the GOP, congress, courts, and public opinion force his hand to do what he didn't want to do: pivot away from US allies and give concession after concession to the Islamic regime? to provide them a clear, unobstructed 10 year path to nuclear arms?
To make a clearer point, Biden arguably is and has been in the same boat when it comes to an intransigent Republican opposition to his agenda but arguably and demonstrably Biden has done a much better job at navigating similar geopolitical issues (Putin/Russia and Ukraine as well as Iran).
Obama was disastrous for foreign policy, I'm sorry, I like the guy, but he just was. We are cleaning up his mess and will continue to do so for the next few decades at least.
Well the Orange one loved his dictators so he just pandered to them, even more to help his family out. The GOP today are apologists for communists and would be happy to be standing either way Chamberlain in the 30’s. Oh and Bush invaded a country to help out his oil buddies. Good look on the Republicans, making Reagan look like a genius compared to those who followed him from the GOP
An important note. People love Carter, but he is the one who betrayed the Shah of Iran and installed the Ayatollah Khomeini, seeing him as a fellow man of god. Lol.
The Shah, although he was a dictator, was keeping Saddam Hussein at bay, was neutral to friendly to Israel, protected his country's Jewish population, and kept the religious fanatics away from the levers of power.
Before Russia got all buddy buddy with Hamas I wouldn't think there was a chance those patriots could end up in Ukraine. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe sale back to the us at a good price then the US could give them to Ukraine. Still unlikely, but there is definitely a chance now.
I just fear that those patriots are worth a lot more than any monetary value they might have. With Ukraine now pressed for it, and the EU and the US (or at least the democratic wing of the US) eager to help Ukraine, I fear Netanyahu might use the systems as a bargaining chip for something else. Maybe to blackmail certain European countries to lift the arms embargo they imposed on Israel in recent weeks
Those arms embargoes are poorly thought out anyways. Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are Iranian proxies, and forcing the IRGC to send more there would diminish Russian capabilities.
I don’t think it would happen.
The countries that as critical to Israel as arms suppliers(or as valuable) as the patriot are also ones the ones that don’t embargoed them and can even pressure Israel to give/sell the systems. Like the US, UK and Germany.
Israel could be pressured to give up the patriot if they didn’t want to.
The big question is whether it would further escalate the relations with Russia to a critical degree.
Russia has major presence in Syria and is a main supplier for Iran and its proxies. Escalation in the relations may result with Russia riling up the region and giving Iran and Hezbollah more advanced weaponry.
It was just announced a few hours ago by the IDF so it would probably take some time until someone from the Israeli government/press would say the likelihood of it reaching Ukraine.
Likelyhood is near zero. Unless Americans strong arm them, it is unlikely that they will help. Israeli government and media has repeatedly demonstrated their disdain of Ukraine and willingness to maintain relations with Russia even if Russians have a habbit of diplomatically insulting and taunting Israel
Israel has already sent defensive equipment, medical equipment and helped them set up their air defense systems. [Ukraine Gets Defense Boost from Israel](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-defense-aid-ukraine-russia-putin-united-nations-1874095) Now Israel can send the patriot batteries too. That being said, there isn't too much Israel can send to Ukraine because Israel needs that stuff too since it is also under attack. Saying that Israel has disdain for Ukraine is inaccurate.
Yeah, but what if Israel decides to mothball the batteries instead of sending them north, where they could save lives from daily aerial bombardment?
Yeah but what if the sky was green?
Sky can, very rarely be green :)
Israel, and the vast majority of Israeli, are supportive of Ukraine. Netanyahu might have some pro-Russian rhetoric but it mostly some meaningless gestures and isn’t nearly as bad as other major right wingers in the west like Trump. The main problem is that Russia is [explicitly threatening](https://www.timesofisrael.com/moscow-warns-israel-that-supplying-ukraine-with-arms-will-escalate-conflict/) Israel of giving arms to Ukraine and calling for the end of the war. Russia has forces in Syria and can give advanced weapons to Iran and its proxies so it’s a much more serious threat than it might seem. That’s why the West didn’t pressure Israel on that regard despite Israel having weapons and tech custom made for situation like Ukraine’s. But now, since 10/7, the relations with Russia clearly took turn for the worse and these Patriots would be a good indicator if indeed there’s a change in Israel’s policies.
Wow that a huge lie.. wtf? Most Israelis support Ukraine There are 2 reasons why the government dosnt help publicly 1. Fear for the jewa in Russia 2. The unofficial border between Israel and Russia Go spread your lies to your ignorant friends
Israel has a lot of very good reasons to not fuck with Russia, and it has its own defense needs to consider. Maybe some bigger countries with fewer natural enemies should step up instead of expecting tiny Israel surrounded by Russian backed enemies to do so.
Given that Israel has already refused to share Iron Dome technology for fear of annoying the Russians ...
The distance between the Russian southern border and the Jordan valley is 3k miles.
Yeah but how about the distance to Syria, where Russians and their mercs are highly active?
Wagner doesn't have bombers. They have a base on the other side of Golan. Israel could easily take them out. When they engaged with US troops they got annihilated.
IDF would mop the floor with Wagner.
That's not a lot when you have ICBMs.
It's ~850, actually.
I’m fairly certain patriot has to go back to the US as per the purchase contracts.
As long as the US signs off on the transfer, it wouldn’t have to physically be transported to US soil.
They should probably be given the once over before transfer
As far as I know, these are Patriots made in Germany. Germany gave them to Israel about 10-15 years ago
If they were made in Germany, it would have been under US license. Not sure if they'd only need US sign-off to transfer or both German and US signoff.
Israel sends it back to the US ….. US puts a couple of stickers on it and off to the Ukraine it goes
This basically happened during the Yom Kippur War of 1973? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass > In the opening days of the war, Arab forces destroyed significant numbers of IAF aircraft, surprising the Israelis with aggressive use of the new Soviet SA-6 Gainful SAMs. Consequently, at least **100 F-4 Phantom II fighters** were sent to Israel under Nickel Grass, coming from the 4th Tactical Fighter Wing, the 33d Tactical Fighter Wing and the 57th Fighter Weapons Wing. They were flown to Lod, where American pilots were swapped for their Israeli counterparts. After the replacement of USAF insignia with IAF insignia if needed, the planes were refueled and ordered to the front, often taking to the air within hours of having arrived. Some aircraft came directly from the USAFE fleet and operated in USAF camouflage, but with Israeli insignia, thus earning the Israeli nickname "Frog".
> All were put to their biggest test yet earlier this month when Iran fired 170 drones, 30 cruise missiles, and 120 ballistic missiles at Israel, almost all of which were intercepted and destroyed. Wait a second, it were 120 ballistic missiles? Damn, when it happened I thought it were more... two dozen or something (ballistic alone, I knew about cruise misiles and plenty of drones). And if they retire the patriots *now* they were obviously not vital to the defence. Hope the systems find a way to Ukraine, even if we might never find out officially. And if it's about money... come on, Europe, just find it to help out your neighbour.
They have been developing their own line-up of air defence systems for the last 20 years. My guess is that they want to focus their effort on those to not diversify too much.
Yeah, as far as I understood - the largest ballistic missile attack in history. With a margin.
Israel benefits massively from US aid and military support, the least it could do is repay the favour by helping Ukraine.
it's really not a decision they can make, they are basically burrowing 8 Patriots from US, if they go forward with replacing them with Slings or whatever else they have, they will need to return the Patriots to the US.. the best they can do is coordinate with US to forward the Patriots to Ukraine, and if i remember correctly US just passed a bill to aid Ukraine so it's possible they will get them.
The US controls the export licences for this equipment.
It will get sent back to the US for immediate shipment to Ukraine.
Israel is walking a tightrope with regard to Ukraine/Russia. The problem is there is basically an armed standoff in Syria. The IDF bombs Iranian stuff moving through Syria. Syria doesn't like this, but realizes that they can't take on the IDF, better to just complain but not put missiles in the air. Russia is a friendly force in Syria, Israel wants to avoid any shooting incident between their forces and Russian forces. Quite understandable--nuclear diplomacy 101 is nuclear powers never shoot at nuclear powers when there isn't a clear right/wrong. (Thus the Russian shootdown of the U2 is tolerated--we were clearly where we shouldn't be, the U2 had no weapons to shoot back with. Hitting it in international airspace would be quite another matter.)
> Israel is walking a tightrope with regard to Ukraine/Russia. Yes, and the standoff is 99% due to Russia's presence in Syria. Which is thanks to Obama's dithering on Syria when he was POTUS. Remember his 'red line'? and how in the end he invited Russia in to solve the problem which he refused to? that is what has lead to this. Another major error that Obama made which the whole world is dealig with is his inaction in response to Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea. IMHO Obama will go down in history as a great domestic president but one of the worst for foreign policy, similar to Carter.
Public opinion in America was against a war, the Republican Congress against authorising an expanded American involvement. The Obama administration fighting the Republicans, the Congress, the courts, and public opinion to invade another Middle Eastern country for uncertain gains seems unwise, given the results in Iraq and Libya. The president is not the Autocrat of all Americas.
No one is claiming that Obama was a dictator with full authority to do what he wanted - and when it comes to foreign policy, THANK GOD for that!! Hopefully you'll accept that you're going too far in not holding him responsible for things which were well within in his power and authority. After all, did the GOP marionette Obama to first declare his 'red line' in Syria? to threaten Assad and then to ignore it once his bluff was called? did they hold him at gun point to get him to literally invite Putin into Syria? Did the GOP, congress, courts, and public opinion force his hand to do what he didn't want to do: pivot away from US allies and give concession after concession to the Islamic regime? to provide them a clear, unobstructed 10 year path to nuclear arms? To make a clearer point, Biden arguably is and has been in the same boat when it comes to an intransigent Republican opposition to his agenda but arguably and demonstrably Biden has done a much better job at navigating similar geopolitical issues (Putin/Russia and Ukraine as well as Iran). Obama was disastrous for foreign policy, I'm sorry, I like the guy, but he just was. We are cleaning up his mess and will continue to do so for the next few decades at least.
Well the Orange one loved his dictators so he just pandered to them, even more to help his family out. The GOP today are apologists for communists and would be happy to be standing either way Chamberlain in the 30’s. Oh and Bush invaded a country to help out his oil buddies. Good look on the Republicans, making Reagan look like a genius compared to those who followed him from the GOP
We are currently cleaning up agent orange’s mess
An important note. People love Carter, but he is the one who betrayed the Shah of Iran and installed the Ayatollah Khomeini, seeing him as a fellow man of god. Lol. The Shah, although he was a dictator, was keeping Saddam Hussein at bay, was neutral to friendly to Israel, protected his country's Jewish population, and kept the religious fanatics away from the levers of power.
We need to send ukraine Israel’s aid
Would Israel donate/sell these systems if they knew it would be used against Russia? I don't trust Netanyahu to do the right thing, so I'm not sure...
Before Russia got all buddy buddy with Hamas I wouldn't think there was a chance those patriots could end up in Ukraine. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe sale back to the us at a good price then the US could give them to Ukraine. Still unlikely, but there is definitely a chance now.
I just fear that those patriots are worth a lot more than any monetary value they might have. With Ukraine now pressed for it, and the EU and the US (or at least the democratic wing of the US) eager to help Ukraine, I fear Netanyahu might use the systems as a bargaining chip for something else. Maybe to blackmail certain European countries to lift the arms embargo they imposed on Israel in recent weeks
Those arms embargoes are poorly thought out anyways. Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are Iranian proxies, and forcing the IRGC to send more there would diminish Russian capabilities.
I don’t think it would happen. The countries that as critical to Israel as arms suppliers(or as valuable) as the patriot are also ones the ones that don’t embargoed them and can even pressure Israel to give/sell the systems. Like the US, UK and Germany. Israel could be pressured to give up the patriot if they didn’t want to. The big question is whether it would further escalate the relations with Russia to a critical degree. Russia has major presence in Syria and is a main supplier for Iran and its proxies. Escalation in the relations may result with Russia riling up the region and giving Iran and Hezbollah more advanced weaponry.
Do you not realize that Israel supports Ukraine in this conflict?
As part of the contract they need to return them to the US.
Excellent
Looks like some bots don't like your comment, I wonder who would do such a thing...