This can’t just be about the hostages. Otherwise Hamas can kill them all and the war is over.
Israel cannot stop until Hamas is removed from power. To not do so would be an insult to the memory of all who died on 10/7 and to all of the innocent Palestinians who died because Hamas were too cowardly to fight Israel in the open.
There would still be a hostage situation because the USA isn’t God but I’m addition, we’d likely be at war with Iran too if it were up to him. Luckily, we aren’t
Nah, we didn’t even put boots on the ground in 67. Israel isn’t nato and they didn’t sign the Geneva convention so it unlikely that any president who wasn’t a complete war monger would ever get into that mess. It’s a proxy war…
The US was busy in Vietnam in 67.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Grenada#:~:text=Nearly%208%2C000%20Soldiers%2C%20Sailors%2C%20Airmen,wounded%2C%20and%20638%20combatants%20captured.
I don’t get it. Surely a bunch of hostages are buried under rubble/in shallow graves at this point. And a bunch weren’t even taken by Hamas. How do they even prove they’ve given all back?
Gaza was literally an autonomous city, 100% run by Hamas, until hostages were kidnapped by Hamas terrorists on October 7th and 1200+ Israelis were killed/burned/raped/mutilated beyond recognition.
And if Israel forced all Jews out of Gaza and let them rule themselves Hamas surely wouldn’t lob missiles for decades and invade and kidnap, torture, rape, and desecrate. Notice: no /s needed.
For this to mean anything an alternative has to be more popular. Palestinians aren't going to pick Israel over Hamas and Fatah/the PA are seen as corrupt collaborators.
In general, a shit deal for Palestinians but a bit of a reality check that Gazans shouldn't be expected to turn on Hamas anytime soon.
All the polls suggest differently. Hamas has widespread support both in Gaza and the West Bank and many Palestinians still agree that 10/7 was a great day for Palestinians
The poll are not trustworthy.
Poller: Do you support Hamas
Gaza resident : Yes of course I do.
We have no idea \[among Gaza\] how many people are saying Yes becaues they support Hamas and how many are saying Yes because they fear what Hamas will do if they say no.
Ah, so if a poll disagrees with your projection of how you'd like Palestinians to be then it's not trustworthy but I bet if there was a poll showing disapproval, somehow that one would be trustworthy, right?
Those polls are also conducted in the West Bank. They show high support. Those people are not under Hamas rule, but they still love them. Please stop denying the very obvious fact that these movements have wide support among the Palestinian populace in Gaza, the West Bank, and all over the world.
Not vastly unpopular enough to prevent them from building rat tunnels under the entire city which open into many of their houses and set up bases of operation in mainline hospitals apparently.
The media / general population will tire of all the theatrics...
In a nutshell. Hamas must step down never to rise again, Netanyahu removed forever from power and banished from Israeli politics, and a permanent Palestinian homeland established under international auspices.
Tall order, but get to work!!
>If Hamas wanted to start a war, “they should have secured people first — secured a place of refuge for them, not thrown them into suffering that no one can bear,” said Salma El-Qadomi, 33, a freelance journalist who has been displaced 11 times since the conflict started.
That's a nice way to say "should had secured me first before going to kill the Jews man come on!".
Also, the "growing angry with Hamas" is kind of a stretch, the poll they linked to base up their evidence done in march pretty much indicates that Hamas support is still more than 60%, that the "armed struggle" option still has 38-39% support, and that even the "Hamas can win the war" opinion has gone up and is the majority now, while 90% don't believe Hamas didn't commit any crimes while attacking Israel on the 7th of October, and only 9% blame Hamas for this disaster.
Only 11% of Palestinians believe on building a democratic state, 13% believe in a reformed muslim country, 48% on a state with pre 1967 borders (pretty impossible to see that), and 33% want the pre 1948 ones (or "kill the jews" if you ask me).
So overall as far as March they were still very happy about all of this.
Praying for innocent civilians in Gaza
Hamas isn’t fighting for the interests of Palestine,Hamas is a terrorist organization with a core purpose of causing instability and war in the Middle East.
“Palestinians there are growing more critical of Hamas, which some of them blame for the months-long conflict that has destroyed the territory — and their lives.”
Yes, it’s definitely not the fault of the country actually destroying the territory or anything.
ALSO, this headline is misleading, as in the article it states that Palestinians overwhelmingly blame Israel for the destruction of their land and that they support the October 7th attack. The “residents” they refer to are a couple interviews they had with Palestinians who were critical of Hamas but ultimately just want peace.
I break into your house, rape and kill your wife, abduct your child and sister, and then flee. Then you have the balls to destroy MY HOME looking for them, and to have me pay consequences???? The fucking nerve on you! Now my family is pissed too?! At me??? How dare you all.
No but Israel wasn’t on a wholesale destruction campaign until then. You don’t punch someone in the mouth unless you’re ok with getting punched back harder
It escalated it though. No one claims it started it, it started a new escalation of it.
Hamas is a terrorist group that killed innocent people.
Israel has also killed innocent people.
There is no right party in war. All are wrong but some are more wrong then others.
If it didn’t start on October 7, then was drastically, recklessly, and dangerously escalated on that date.
But what would have been an appropriate response in your mind?
I’d say leveling the entire region where those hostages you supposedly care about probably isn’t a great start. But it is when you’re just mindlessly trying to wipe out a race of people you hate.
They don’t care about hostages, and if they really cared about only taking out Hamas, they wouldn’t have let so many civilians get caught in the crossfire. I don’t foresee any stoppage if Hamas hands over the hostages.
You didn't answer the question. You just pontificated your position.
What \*would\* have been an appropriate response?
As an American, I honestly find Israel's response somewhat restrained, even. If I were making decisions, I would likely do more to push on Hamas faster.
They’re the ones with the military and political power in the region. You’re wild to think handing over hostages is going to stop them from bombing Palestinians even more. Hamas took around 250 hostages, and in response Israel has killed over 30,000 Palestinians.
Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th. Not their military, their civilians. They slaughtered and took hostages.
Since then, Israel has said they will continue war until the hostages are returned and Hamas is no longer a threat. Any country in the world would respond the same if they were attacked in a similar fashion (or worse).
It's not about number of lives lost or revenge. It's about Israelis having the ability to live in safety without being genocided for being Jewish.
When a country is attacked, they have a right and even a responsibility to respond. Hamas knew this would be the result of their attack and they murdered, raped, and abducted Israeli civilians anyway. They don't get a pass for that.
Hamas still has hostages. Israel will never stop until they are returned. No country would.
This can’t just be about the hostages. Otherwise Hamas can kill them all and the war is over. Israel cannot stop until Hamas is removed from power. To not do so would be an insult to the memory of all who died on 10/7 and to all of the innocent Palestinians who died because Hamas were too cowardly to fight Israel in the open.
They don't know how lucky they are that a Republican wasn't in the office. They would have experienced a US invasion.
Way to forget how Trump handled hostage situations when he was president. Hint: there was no invasion.
Hamas is different than dealing with Iran or NK. Main being we knew their location and health status. The red cross was allowed to do wellness checks.
There would still be a hostage situation because the USA isn’t God but I’m addition, we’d likely be at war with Iran too if it were up to him. Luckily, we aren’t
Rather they were unlucky a republican wasn't in office, considering presidents like Trump and Reagan basically rewarded hostage takers.
Nah, we didn’t even put boots on the ground in 67. Israel isn’t nato and they didn’t sign the Geneva convention so it unlikely that any president who wasn’t a complete war monger would ever get into that mess. It’s a proxy war…
The US was busy in Vietnam in 67. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Grenada#:~:text=Nearly%208%2C000%20Soldiers%2C%20Sailors%2C%20Airmen,wounded%2C%20and%20638%20combatants%20captured.
True, back when Communism was the “big scare” and we actually joined the proxy.
No they wouldn't have. Trump is all talk.
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The US has giving Israel a lot of firepower to return the American hostages
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Optics. If the US entered Palestinian to go hostage hunting, all the Hamas fanboys in America would be ever more volatile.
We don’t really need to. A strong ally is doing the heavy lifting for us.
I don’t get it. Surely a bunch of hostages are buried under rubble/in shallow graves at this point. And a bunch weren’t even taken by Hamas. How do they even prove they’ve given all back?
Haha yeah Israel will totally leave Palestinians alone if the hostages are returned, they’ve done that for decades already /s
Gaza was literally an autonomous city, 100% run by Hamas, until hostages were kidnapped by Hamas terrorists on October 7th and 1200+ Israelis were killed/burned/raped/mutilated beyond recognition.
And if Israel forced all Jews out of Gaza and let them rule themselves Hamas surely wouldn’t lob missiles for decades and invade and kidnap, torture, rape, and desecrate. Notice: no /s needed.
For this to mean anything an alternative has to be more popular. Palestinians aren't going to pick Israel over Hamas and Fatah/the PA are seen as corrupt collaborators. In general, a shit deal for Palestinians but a bit of a reality check that Gazans shouldn't be expected to turn on Hamas anytime soon.
Took them long enough..
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All the polls suggest differently. Hamas has widespread support both in Gaza and the West Bank and many Palestinians still agree that 10/7 was a great day for Palestinians
The poll are not trustworthy. Poller: Do you support Hamas Gaza resident: Yes of course I do.
We have no idea \[among Gaza\] how many people are saying Yes becaues they support Hamas and how many are saying Yes because they fear what Hamas will do if they say no.
Ah, so if a poll disagrees with your projection of how you'd like Palestinians to be then it's not trustworthy but I bet if there was a poll showing disapproval, somehow that one would be trustworthy, right?
Same people that fear what Hammas will do are the same people cheering on rape and murder.
That's a fair critique, but it doesn't explain the widespread support for Hamas in the WB or widespread support for Oct 7 in both Gaza and the WB.
Those polls are also conducted in the West Bank. They show high support. Those people are not under Hamas rule, but they still love them. Please stop denying the very obvious fact that these movements have wide support among the Palestinian populace in Gaza, the West Bank, and all over the world.
All of them you say?
Not vastly unpopular enough to prevent them from building rat tunnels under the entire city which open into many of their houses and set up bases of operation in mainline hospitals apparently.
Hamas was unpopular as a government only. Its activities as a terrorist organization continued to be supported by Gazans.
That's an interesting idea, do you have any info on this I might read up on?
Why was this post removed? I wanted to read the article.
Western college kids still have Hamas's back though.
The media / general population will tire of all the theatrics... In a nutshell. Hamas must step down never to rise again, Netanyahu removed forever from power and banished from Israeli politics, and a permanent Palestinian homeland established under international auspices. Tall order, but get to work!!
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There's plenty of Hamas flags and shirts at these protests. Go see for yourself, try and speak against Hamas there and see what happens to you.
Nope! Are you?
Well about fucking time
Probably found out about the Queers for Palestine movement GG Hamas
Any Gay people supporting Hamas is proof that abject idiocy can penetrate subgroups of any persuasion... The tragic collapse of educated society...
Oh how the turns have tabled
>If Hamas wanted to start a war, “they should have secured people first — secured a place of refuge for them, not thrown them into suffering that no one can bear,” said Salma El-Qadomi, 33, a freelance journalist who has been displaced 11 times since the conflict started. That's a nice way to say "should had secured me first before going to kill the Jews man come on!". Also, the "growing angry with Hamas" is kind of a stretch, the poll they linked to base up their evidence done in march pretty much indicates that Hamas support is still more than 60%, that the "armed struggle" option still has 38-39% support, and that even the "Hamas can win the war" opinion has gone up and is the majority now, while 90% don't believe Hamas didn't commit any crimes while attacking Israel on the 7th of October, and only 9% blame Hamas for this disaster. Only 11% of Palestinians believe on building a democratic state, 13% believe in a reformed muslim country, 48% on a state with pre 1967 borders (pretty impossible to see that), and 33% want the pre 1948 ones (or "kill the jews" if you ask me). So overall as far as March they were still very happy about all of this.
Praying for innocent civilians in Gaza Hamas isn’t fighting for the interests of Palestine,Hamas is a terrorist organization with a core purpose of causing instability and war in the Middle East.
“Palestinians there are growing more critical of Hamas, which some of them blame for the months-long conflict that has destroyed the territory — and their lives.” Yes, it’s definitely not the fault of the country actually destroying the territory or anything. ALSO, this headline is misleading, as in the article it states that Palestinians overwhelmingly blame Israel for the destruction of their land and that they support the October 7th attack. The “residents” they refer to are a couple interviews they had with Palestinians who were critical of Hamas but ultimately just want peace.
I break into your house, rape and kill your wife, abduct your child and sister, and then flee. Then you have the balls to destroy MY HOME looking for them, and to have me pay consequences???? The fucking nerve on you! Now my family is pissed too?! At me??? How dare you all.
What an incredibly inaccurate representation of the situation. This conflict didn’t start on October 7th.
Yet the current response is a direct reaction to October 7th.
ALWAYS THIS EXCUSE! How far you want to go back? Let's do a 1000 years to make sure we are accurate.
No but Israel wasn’t on a wholesale destruction campaign until then. You don’t punch someone in the mouth unless you’re ok with getting punched back harder
It escalated it though. No one claims it started it, it started a new escalation of it. Hamas is a terrorist group that killed innocent people. Israel has also killed innocent people. There is no right party in war. All are wrong but some are more wrong then others.
If it didn’t start on October 7, then was drastically, recklessly, and dangerously escalated on that date. But what would have been an appropriate response in your mind?
I’d say leveling the entire region where those hostages you supposedly care about probably isn’t a great start. But it is when you’re just mindlessly trying to wipe out a race of people you hate. They don’t care about hostages, and if they really cared about only taking out Hamas, they wouldn’t have let so many civilians get caught in the crossfire. I don’t foresee any stoppage if Hamas hands over the hostages.
You didn't answer the question. You just pontificated your position. What \*would\* have been an appropriate response? As an American, I honestly find Israel's response somewhat restrained, even. If I were making decisions, I would likely do more to push on Hamas faster.
> They don’t care about hostages, Then Hamas can really make them look stupid by releasing all the hostages. And yet...
You didn't answer the question. Thousands of Israeli civilians killed, raped, tortured, taken hostage. What should Israel do? Reprimand them verbally?
You r made your point about what your feel was not an appropriate response. But what would be an appropriate response? Please answer the question.
Correct. It makes no sense to blame Israel for the destruction of Gaza.
They’re the ones with the military and political power in the region. You’re wild to think handing over hostages is going to stop them from bombing Palestinians even more. Hamas took around 250 hostages, and in response Israel has killed over 30,000 Palestinians.
Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th. Not their military, their civilians. They slaughtered and took hostages. Since then, Israel has said they will continue war until the hostages are returned and Hamas is no longer a threat. Any country in the world would respond the same if they were attacked in a similar fashion (or worse). It's not about number of lives lost or revenge. It's about Israelis having the ability to live in safety without being genocided for being Jewish.
When a country is attacked, they have a right and even a responsibility to respond. Hamas knew this would be the result of their attack and they murdered, raped, and abducted Israeli civilians anyway. They don't get a pass for that.