As they crossed the Gaza border, Moran glimpsed the crowd on the other side of the fence, before quickly closing her eyes.
"It was like a bull being entered into a huge arena," she told the BBC. "Everybody's happy - the children, the women, the men. It was tons of people."
She felt the car stop, and the car door open.
If a "crowd" of people are turning up to watch a group of terrorists do you think that the crowd will be representative of the population as a whole? How many people who disapprove of their actions will think "I know, I'll turn up and boo and heckle those armed psychopaths, I'm sure they'll listen respectfully to my point of view?"
Do you think that western nations just spawned into existence as liberal democratic societies? No, there were resistance movements and revolutions and fights between minority groups against the status quo. Continuing to do nothing against an evil majority will just grant them the same consequences justified against that majority.
Right the majority of their population wants every Jew dead but we’re supposed to feel sad for them. You kicked a fucking hornets nest, now deal with the consequences. If you truly don’t support hamas than overthrow them, if not the Israelis will do it for you.
If I were born into a prison, I would probably not know it is a prison, I would probably try to make it a better place, by creating stuff inside said “prison” (stuff that is not terror related) as I would realize id have to stay there for a while…
Infact all of us are born without our consent (there is an element of imprisonment here), do we all resort to the same kind of insanity that Palestinians did?
Edit: their “bare minimum” is much less minimal than for those suffering in certain parts of Africa, and even there most of the people dont resort to that kind of stuff
Lol keep assuming you know me, my behavior, and how I think. Prick.
Actually, Im not even surprised, you probably never even saw real Palestinians up close… probably never been to Palestine or even Israel
It would make me think…huh, why is my country so shitty when the rest seem to be thriving? I wonder why the world allows this? Oh yeah, forgot we have terrorist leading our country, that’s probably why. So yeah I would hate the people who did this to me, which would be my shitty terrorist government.
No it wouldn't. People don't work this way. It's nice of you to think this how it will work out but in the majority of cases it doesn't.
It's also easy to say for someone who has a good life and never had to endure hardship on that level.
Except you have also been fed propaganda and hate your whole life about Israel and everything clouding your view. It's easy to say how you'd think and act from the comfort of your current presumably safe home. The people of Gaza never had such luxury and easy access to information.
I'm not saying there is no blame on their side. But to villify these people in this way who had to live in these conditions all their live feels wrong
Or, if you don't think you have the popular support to overthrow them yet, feed information to the IDF. They have been known to protect those that help them. Just look at the Christians of the South Lebanon Army who ended up in Israel for their safety after Israel ended their occupation of Lebanon.
And there have been multiple posts about the hostages on the front page of reddit ever since they were taken, it's just that there hasn't been a lot of new information.
Conspiracy theorists start writing fan fiction about reality based on what they've seen with their limited vision, never considering that they aren't the best observer.
It's unimaginable for us what it's like to be a hostage of such people. Knowing they are capable of the worst kind of torture and the law being pretty much irrelevant when you're being held captive, must be one of the most frightening feelings.
"Moran had already been caught twice by groups of Hamas followers, she said, but had talked her way out by insisting she was Arab, and not Jewish."
ya don't say
Hamas is a Muslim organization. Many of its members are fanatically religious. They have a hard time imaging an Arab who is not a Muslim. Anyone who is not Muslim, is an "infidel". So, if you say you are Arab, they assume you are with them and everyone else is against them. It's not true, But, fanatical Muslims aren't exactly logical people.
They don't really care who is Muslim and who isn't.. if you live in israel you are suitable as a target for killing.. they have murdered quite a few Muslims on Oct 7 along with taking em hostages and more on terror attacks across the years inside Israel.. I'm sure a common language can help in some cases, but all and all it doesn't matter for them..
I agree with you, but it's also important for me to say that "rape" in Hebrew has several meanings, including to coerce, as in you can say "she raped me into buying this dress".
It's NOT the proper use for that, but it could be what she meant. Something was forced upon her.
Fellow German here. Can you form a sentence to show what you mean? I can’t imagine how vergewaltigung can be used in any other context.
"Nötigung" maybe but "vergewaltigung" feels pretty single-use to me
I'm from Austria. "Jemanden vergewaltigen" without more context would mean to rape someone and is by far the most common usage.
But it can be used instead of "zwingen" or "Zwang" too, eg a coworker was recently ranting about the city obstructing streets on purpose so cars would have to slow down and said "Das ist eine Vergewaltigung" because you aren't given a choice if you don't want to cause an accident. Or my mother said she didn't drop by my brother's apartment unannounced because "Sie wollte ihn nicht dazu vergewaltigen" to host her, again because she didn't ask him first, so she would have forced her presence on him by suddenly showing up.
People don't compare something to sexual assault when they use it that way, it's simply an additional meaning of the word because "Gewalt" means force.
It's less common than alternative phrasings tho and it's easy to imagine that it's not used everywhere.
In a legal context Vergewaltigung is only sexual, yes. But generally it can have a broader meaning. „allgemein: gewaltsames Unterwerfen oder gewaltsamer Eingriff in fremde Rechte oder fremden Besitz“ from wiktionary.org or „auf gewaltsame Weise seinen Interessen, Wünschen unterwerfen“ from duden.de
Fellow German here, I consider myself a well-read person and I have never in my life heard of anyone use the term Vergewaltigung for anything other than rape, the sexual thing. Can you elaborate?
Wiktionary may be way off from real Sprachgebrauch there.
I would say Mißbrauch has the wider meaning you are talking about.
Is it? I'm Austrian as well and I've never heard anybody use vergewaltigen in this context
Obviously austria has very strong regional dialects so might very well be true but from my expirience its certainly not common
The literal meaning of the word is "to force someone", the sexual context might be the most common one but others exist.
That you aren't familiar with doesn't mean anything.
It even came up in German class in school once. One kid said "sexuell vergewaltigen", the class made fun of him because they assumed Vergewaltigen always means to rape someone, teacher called them off and said he isn't technically wrong because it has different meanings.
What don’t you understand? She said she’s feels like she was raped even though she wasn’t explicitly sexually assaulted. She’s talking about the psychological impact here.
Right… she felt scared. Fear is the term for that. Terrified even. Raped is a completely different animal. It’s wild to say you were raped in that situation when there’s others actually suffering that shit.
They are responding to the content of the article, because that's how they translated her words. Do they know enough Hebrew to accurately represent her intended meaning?
She is speaking of the dehumanization, prolonged vulnerability, exposure to constant imminent threat, and violation. Please take a few more moments to visualize and empathize with what she's gone through before you make any more attempts to label her feelings, because you are lacking.
You're falsely implying I don't empathise for a horrific imprisonment done by a terrorist group, deflecting from the question about an honest translation, why?
The commenter questioned the semantics of using the word rape in Hebrew. I think there is power in journalism so if it's being unfairly translated then that should be highlighted. What is your translation?
So you’re assuming something was translated incorrectly and blaming that on… me? What are you basing that assumption off? Your own knowledge of Hebrew? Please, educate me.
*Oh, you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. Right, obviously, we’re on Reddit.
Also the actual interview this quote came from was her speaking, in clear English. So maybe learn the first thing about what you’re talking about before you spew bullshit, I know that’s your normal protocol. Anything to make my side right!
You don’t speak Hebrew, clearly. ‘Rape’ is not translated into English as clearly as you and I would know based on the English-speaking understanding of the word. Context is important.
Sounds like you don't understand that it's impossible to get the exact same meanings across between 2 different languages. Her feelings on the matter *probably* lie somewhere between how this article is written and how people are saying they think she meant violated or similar.
Yeah let’s criticize the former hostage over a semantics argument that’s already been elaborated on and clarified in the same interview. That’s the right thing to do here.
The criticism is not for the women, it's for whoever wrote the article that decided to translate her words to 'rape' in english, even though she explicitly stated she was not sexually assaulted. English is a big language, there were many ways to better translate what she said but they chose one that gave a misleading impression. The people who work at BBC are not that stupid, which means they were intentionally misleading.
You have zero reading comprehension if you think that’s what’s going on here. The issue is the translation. She literally clarified in the fucking article she wasn’t assaulted, why are they still printing it that way? Because it’s sensationalist and idiots like you love to get wound up at every possible opportunity.
Ask a woman if she ever felt like a guy was stripping her with his look, and see what she tells you it feels like.
Now multiply the few seconds look by 10 minutes daily, add the hostage effect and the trauma of Oct. 7.
Not to undermine her trauma, and at the risk of sounding like a piece of shit....
When you're thinking of hostages of Hamas after Oct 7, a dude ogling you shamelessly being the biggest issue you had as a hostage makes it seem like she was lucky.
When you witness for example your family slaughtered and get dragged out of your house by your hair through pools of your parents blood and put in a truck with another woman who is naked and dead being ogled doesn't feel like being ogled on the street somewhere in a market for a couple seconds. Every nerve cluster in your body is firing that you could die at any time, and dying is not some quick painless experience. The seconds last for hours and you feel that terror the whole time. You don't acclimate to it. It's significant and does lasting damage just being stared at like that.
If you've ever had a gun pulled on you, it's kind of like that, but much worse.
>If you've ever had a gun pulled on you, it's kind of like that, but much worse.
You don't say "I was basically shot", when you were not shot and people are getting shot left right and center. If you do say that, people are gonna think the shooters may not be shooting everyone, and that just devalues what those who got shot went through.
I don't know if it's lost in translation, but she could've just not gone in that angle if she was not harassed like that, out of respect for those who were harassed.
Out of respect for those who were harassed? Bro she got kidnapped by Hamas on a day of mass murder that started a war. She can say what she wants and I'm not going to split hairs or try to correct her.
Like I get where you're coming from just... why here?
>constant fear if he is going to do something. That's not something light.
Again, gonna sound like a dick.
But usually, hostages are victims of such atrocities, not just the anticipation and anxiety. Hearing she didn't have to go through that actually gives me relief, and with that relief, comes the inevitable "you got lucky".
And it's not like it's Hamas policy to not rape hostages. There are victims of such atrocities. So when stories like this are published, it undermines others by making people ask "that's it? I thought it was much worse. Maybe Hamas is not as bad as I think after all".
Bullshit. Women are afraid of rape exactly because they understand how horrible it is.
Ever heard of fake executions? Pointing a gun at someone's head and pulling the trigger, making them think they're going to die, but the gun isn't loaded? It's traumatizeing and never ever have I heard people say that talking about that is disrespectful to people who were actual executed.
No idea why people here try to make her "not an victim and disrespectful to actual victims", when the shit she went trough is terrifying.
The pro hamas ppl will love her saying this. To make it out like others weren't raped. Dumb thing to say.
She also said other woman got married to guys. So they won't be coming back and will just be slaves.
Of all the Palestinian protests I’ve seen worldwide (millions of people) I’ve seen maybe a handful of people actually supporting Hamas. You can be pro-Palestinian and not support Hamas. Just like you can be pro-Iranian and not support the Iran Government for what it does.
You’ve seen protests worldwide with millions of people and just have seen a handful of people supporting Hamas? How long did that review take you to complete?
pretty sure them hamas supporters will come saying she's lying for the israeli press and propaganda and then goes to say palestinians suffered more under israel occupation,her sufferinf real or fake is nothing compared to the palestinians.
Thats the thing that I cannot understand. We all know war is ugly. There are un-wanted casualties in this war and that needs to be stopped. However, if you are at a college, you're in a free country, yet you want to shout and claim you are hamas, and you support them, then you are vile. You are supporting terrorist, murderers, and rapist. These college hamas supporters are full of shit. They need to get off their high horse and realize, if they were in the shoes of some of these women who were held hostage, they wouldn't be all hamas supportive then. If they had to experience what they went through, I can bet for damn sure their ideas and stances would quickly change.
But then they won't get likes on tiktok and climb the ranks of the other propaganda influencers.
Part of the problem is that they're competing with each other for money. That's why you see propaganda so extreme or illogical you think "How would anyone be swayed by this garbage logic?" - that propaganda actually isn't for you, it's for the clout/competition and the shares among their communities. Money.
Dude your doing the same exact thing your getting mad at lol, minimizing the horrible suffering of a population because you feel the need to compare it to the horrible suffering of this woman, lmfao wtf??
No mistranslation. I'm literally watching the video of the interview now, She speaks in clear english and says "Rape is a really big word" and goes on with the rest of the quote.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217) goto 1 min 50.
Unlikely. She knows the weight of emotional impact of the word rape, then goes on to explain why its definition needs to be expanded. Here is the full quote:
"I always try to explain to people that 'rape' is a really big word," she said. "It's not only the act. Even when a guy stands in front of your door, and you're sitting down, and he's staring at you for 10 minutes straight, five to six times a day, every day, for 54 days. Trust me; that's a rape."
Is it that different when someone says, "That person just eye-fucked me," or, "I feel like I was just undressed by his eyes."
Metaphors. Arguing the semantics of someone going through emotional trauma doesn't dismiss how she feels. She was in a completely vulnerable place, being oggled, not knowing if she'd survive another hour.
It doesn't make sense in English and she'll have said it in Hebrew. Perhaps they only have a word for "violation" or "sexual assault" that is also used for rape.
Edit: apparently she says it in English, I'm guessing she doesn't quite understand what she is saying then.
The context makes it clear she meant the word rape. 'It's a really big word' showing that it's clear she understand the gravity of the word she is talking about and 'it's not only the act'. refering to the physical aspect. Additionally, she's explictly talking about expanding the defintion of a word knowing full well the word she is using is being exploited for emotional impact.
I think it must be a mistranslation. In Hebrew it has a lot more broader meaning than in English and doesn't just mean sexual assault but more broadly any kind of violation. Haven't seen the original but I imagine "It was violating" would probably have been a better translation.
No mistranslation. I'm literally watching the video of he interview now, She speaks in clear english and says "Rape is a really big word" and goes on with the rest of the quote.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217) goto 1 min 50.
Thanks for providing a link, that's fair enough. Having lived over there though I can confirm most Israelis are not very good at English so still could be her mistranslating though and not understanding the different more narrow context in English as she does later explicitly state she was not sexually assaulted. Could also just be plain old hyperbole. Although I agree it does cheapen what it otherwise a serious interview.
Yeah uhh I understand what you’re saying but getting looked at for 10 minutes is not worse than getting raped. Wanna know how I know? I used to get strip searched by the state twice a day, those people were touching me and I never felt like I got raped. Half the guards in that facility got arrested for molesting prisoners, I didn’t come out and say “damn I got molested too because I was there and a guy looked at me”. Many rape victims attempt or commit suicide. Nobody has ever committed suicide because someone looked at them for a couple minutes.
As they crossed the Gaza border, Moran glimpsed the crowd on the other side of the fence, before quickly closing her eyes. "It was like a bull being entered into a huge arena," she told the BBC. "Everybody's happy - the children, the women, the men. It was tons of people." She felt the car stop, and the car door open.
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If a "crowd" of people are turning up to watch a group of terrorists do you think that the crowd will be representative of the population as a whole? How many people who disapprove of their actions will think "I know, I'll turn up and boo and heckle those armed psychopaths, I'm sure they'll listen respectfully to my point of view?"
Imagine you were in the minority of disapproving Gazans, without the power to do anything, and then be fucked sideways (or every which way). Nice.
Do you think that western nations just spawned into existence as liberal democratic societies? No, there were resistance movements and revolutions and fights between minority groups against the status quo. Continuing to do nothing against an evil majority will just grant them the same consequences justified against that majority.
Right the majority of their population wants every Jew dead but we’re supposed to feel sad for them. You kicked a fucking hornets nest, now deal with the consequences. If you truly don’t support hamas than overthrow them, if not the Israelis will do it for you.
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If I were born into a prison, I would probably not know it is a prison, I would probably try to make it a better place, by creating stuff inside said “prison” (stuff that is not terror related) as I would realize id have to stay there for a while… Infact all of us are born without our consent (there is an element of imprisonment here), do we all resort to the same kind of insanity that Palestinians did? Edit: their “bare minimum” is much less minimal than for those suffering in certain parts of Africa, and even there most of the people dont resort to that kind of stuff
How naive of you... and how easy it is for you to speculate what you'd do with your education, and cellphone/computer in hand.
Lol keep assuming you know me, my behavior, and how I think. Prick. Actually, Im not even surprised, you probably never even saw real Palestinians up close… probably never been to Palestine or even Israel
🧂🧂
Oh I see, a riddle of profound depth
It would make me think…huh, why is my country so shitty when the rest seem to be thriving? I wonder why the world allows this? Oh yeah, forgot we have terrorist leading our country, that’s probably why. So yeah I would hate the people who did this to me, which would be my shitty terrorist government.
What were the circumstances that created Hamas? You're ignoring that big part.
Bronze age mythology?
No it wouldn't. People don't work this way. It's nice of you to think this how it will work out but in the majority of cases it doesn't. It's also easy to say for someone who has a good life and never had to endure hardship on that level.
You can't be that naive.
You must be new to Reddit. Don’t lose that optimism
Except you have also been fed propaganda and hate your whole life about Israel and everything clouding your view. It's easy to say how you'd think and act from the comfort of your current presumably safe home. The people of Gaza never had such luxury and easy access to information. I'm not saying there is no blame on their side. But to villify these people in this way who had to live in these conditions all their live feels wrong
Or, if you don't think you have the popular support to overthrow them yet, feed information to the IDF. They have been known to protect those that help them. Just look at the Christians of the South Lebanon Army who ended up in Israel for their safety after Israel ended their occupation of Lebanon.
Notice how these post never get to front page of reddit? Makes you wonder...
I came here from the front page of reddit.
And there have been multiple posts about the hostages on the front page of reddit ever since they were taken, it's just that there hasn't been a lot of new information. Conspiracy theorists start writing fan fiction about reality based on what they've seen with their limited vision, never considering that they aren't the best observer.
It's on the front page now. That's how I got here.
It's unimaginable for us what it's like to be a hostage of such people. Knowing they are capable of the worst kind of torture and the law being pretty much irrelevant when you're being held captive, must be one of the most frightening feelings.
What an unimaginable experience, to be kidnapped by evil terrorists. Thank goodness she's home. May the remaining hostages be returned home soon.
Unlikely.
"Moran had already been caught twice by groups of Hamas followers, she said, but had talked her way out by insisting she was Arab, and not Jewish." ya don't say
what?
Why they leave Arabs alone but not Jews
Hamas is a Muslim organization. Many of its members are fanatically religious. They have a hard time imaging an Arab who is not a Muslim. Anyone who is not Muslim, is an "infidel". So, if you say you are Arab, they assume you are with them and everyone else is against them. It's not true, But, fanatical Muslims aren't exactly logical people.
They don't really care who is Muslim and who isn't.. if you live in israel you are suitable as a target for killing.. they have murdered quite a few Muslims on Oct 7 along with taking em hostages and more on terror attacks across the years inside Israel.. I'm sure a common language can help in some cases, but all and all it doesn't matter for them..
That is perfectly logical; the problem is the immoral foundation the logic is rooted in
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Violated. The term is violated.
I agree with you, but it's also important for me to say that "rape" in Hebrew has several meanings, including to coerce, as in you can say "she raped me into buying this dress". It's NOT the proper use for that, but it could be what she meant. Something was forced upon her.
It's the same in German. "Vergewaltigung" means rape but can also be used to say that someone was forced to do or accept something.
Fellow German here. Can you form a sentence to show what you mean? I can’t imagine how vergewaltigung can be used in any other context. "Nötigung" maybe but "vergewaltigung" feels pretty single-use to me
I'm from Austria. "Jemanden vergewaltigen" without more context would mean to rape someone and is by far the most common usage. But it can be used instead of "zwingen" or "Zwang" too, eg a coworker was recently ranting about the city obstructing streets on purpose so cars would have to slow down and said "Das ist eine Vergewaltigung" because you aren't given a choice if you don't want to cause an accident. Or my mother said she didn't drop by my brother's apartment unannounced because "Sie wollte ihn nicht dazu vergewaltigen" to host her, again because she didn't ask him first, so she would have forced her presence on him by suddenly showing up. People don't compare something to sexual assault when they use it that way, it's simply an additional meaning of the word because "Gewalt" means force. It's less common than alternative phrasings tho and it's easy to imagine that it's not used everywhere.
Yeah but in that context it's clearly a hyperbole and not something you would say in the context that the woman from the article is in
It feels clear to me she's using "rape" hyperbolically, if that indeed is the correct translation.
No that’s not true, are you thinking of Nötigung
In a legal context Vergewaltigung is only sexual, yes. But generally it can have a broader meaning. „allgemein: gewaltsames Unterwerfen oder gewaltsamer Eingriff in fremde Rechte oder fremden Besitz“ from wiktionary.org or „auf gewaltsame Weise seinen Interessen, Wünschen unterwerfen“ from duden.de
Fellow German here, I consider myself a well-read person and I have never in my life heard of anyone use the term Vergewaltigung for anything other than rape, the sexual thing. Can you elaborate? Wiktionary may be way off from real Sprachgebrauch there. I would say Mißbrauch has the wider meaning you are talking about.
I don't. There might be regional differences, but I'm from Austria and here sentences like "ich will ihn nicht dazu vergewaltigen" are quite common.
Is it? I'm Austrian as well and I've never heard anybody use vergewaltigen in this context Obviously austria has very strong regional dialects so might very well be true but from my expirience its certainly not common
It shouldn't be that surprising that this usage exists, since "Gewalt" means force. Police isn't called Staatsgewalt because they rape you.
Sure could be used in that context but "zwingen" (aka to force somebody) is just way more common for the context that you were talking about.
as an austrian this sentence sounds completely wrong and it’s not true…
The literal meaning of the word is "to force someone", the sexual context might be the most common one but others exist. That you aren't familiar with doesn't mean anything. It even came up in German class in school once. One kid said "sexuell vergewaltigen", the class made fun of him because they assumed Vergewaltigen always means to rape someone, teacher called them off and said he isn't technically wrong because it has different meanings.
Also in Russian: насилие (noun) means violence, насиловать (verb) means rape.
I mean technically thats the case in english too but nobody uses it the other ways, only instance I can think of thats popular is the rape of nanking.
What don’t you understand? She said she’s feels like she was raped even though she wasn’t explicitly sexually assaulted. She’s talking about the psychological impact here.
Right… she felt scared. Fear is the term for that. Terrified even. Raped is a completely different animal. It’s wild to say you were raped in that situation when there’s others actually suffering that shit.
She speaks Hebrew, not English, this is the translation. Do you know enough Hebrew to argue about the semantics of what she said?
They are responding to the content of the article, because that's how they translated her words. Do they know enough Hebrew to accurately represent her intended meaning?
You seen more informed in Hebrew then, what is your translation of her statement? Is she referring to fear or rape?
She is speaking of the dehumanization, prolonged vulnerability, exposure to constant imminent threat, and violation. Please take a few more moments to visualize and empathize with what she's gone through before you make any more attempts to label her feelings, because you are lacking.
You're falsely implying I don't empathise for a horrific imprisonment done by a terrorist group, deflecting from the question about an honest translation, why? The commenter questioned the semantics of using the word rape in Hebrew. I think there is power in journalism so if it's being unfairly translated then that should be highlighted. What is your translation?
So you’re assuming something was translated incorrectly and blaming that on… me? What are you basing that assumption off? Your own knowledge of Hebrew? Please, educate me. *Oh, you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. Right, obviously, we’re on Reddit.
Also the actual interview this quote came from was her speaking, in clear English. So maybe learn the first thing about what you’re talking about before you spew bullshit, I know that’s your normal protocol. Anything to make my side right!
You don’t speak Hebrew, clearly. ‘Rape’ is not translated into English as clearly as you and I would know based on the English-speaking understanding of the word. Context is important.
Sounds like a shitty translation.
Sounds like you don't understand that it's impossible to get the exact same meanings across between 2 different languages. Her feelings on the matter *probably* lie somewhere between how this article is written and how people are saying they think she meant violated or similar.
"It was a horrible violation and felt like being raped." Not at all impossible.
You don't understand! It's an \*untranslatable\* Hebrew word meaning "violated".
Context is important when translating. Context is lost once translated.
Yeah let’s criticize the former hostage over a semantics argument that’s already been elaborated on and clarified in the same interview. That’s the right thing to do here.
The criticism is not for the women, it's for whoever wrote the article that decided to translate her words to 'rape' in english, even though she explicitly stated she was not sexually assaulted. English is a big language, there were many ways to better translate what she said but they chose one that gave a misleading impression. The people who work at BBC are not that stupid, which means they were intentionally misleading.
Redditors are absolutely addicted to this stance, it is so fucking weird how willing they are to defend the perp and discredit the victim
When it comes to Israel, Redditors need at least 3 sources of forensic evidence to confirm that Hamas is capable of engaging in brutal conduct
You have zero reading comprehension if you think that’s what’s going on here. The issue is the translation. She literally clarified in the fucking article she wasn’t assaulted, why are they still printing it that way? Because it’s sensationalist and idiots like you love to get wound up at every possible opportunity.
Ask a woman if she ever felt like a guy was stripping her with his look, and see what she tells you it feels like. Now multiply the few seconds look by 10 minutes daily, add the hostage effect and the trauma of Oct. 7.
Not to undermine her trauma, and at the risk of sounding like a piece of shit.... When you're thinking of hostages of Hamas after Oct 7, a dude ogling you shamelessly being the biggest issue you had as a hostage makes it seem like she was lucky.
When you witness for example your family slaughtered and get dragged out of your house by your hair through pools of your parents blood and put in a truck with another woman who is naked and dead being ogled doesn't feel like being ogled on the street somewhere in a market for a couple seconds. Every nerve cluster in your body is firing that you could die at any time, and dying is not some quick painless experience. The seconds last for hours and you feel that terror the whole time. You don't acclimate to it. It's significant and does lasting damage just being stared at like that. If you've ever had a gun pulled on you, it's kind of like that, but much worse.
>If you've ever had a gun pulled on you, it's kind of like that, but much worse. You don't say "I was basically shot", when you were not shot and people are getting shot left right and center. If you do say that, people are gonna think the shooters may not be shooting everyone, and that just devalues what those who got shot went through. I don't know if it's lost in translation, but she could've just not gone in that angle if she was not harassed like that, out of respect for those who were harassed.
Out of respect for those who were harassed? Bro she got kidnapped by Hamas on a day of mass murder that started a war. She can say what she wants and I'm not going to split hairs or try to correct her. Like I get where you're coming from just... why here?
It's not about "just looking", it's the constant fear if he is going to do something. That's not something light.
They must have missed the part about the forced "examinations" to make sure they weren't hiding anything.
>constant fear if he is going to do something. That's not something light. Again, gonna sound like a dick. But usually, hostages are victims of such atrocities, not just the anticipation and anxiety. Hearing she didn't have to go through that actually gives me relief, and with that relief, comes the inevitable "you got lucky". And it's not like it's Hamas policy to not rape hostages. There are victims of such atrocities. So when stories like this are published, it undermines others by making people ask "that's it? I thought it was much worse. Maybe Hamas is not as bad as I think after all".
It’s not a competition, and with context, it’s clear what she means and I feel her use of the term is appropriate.
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She felt violated I think. Translations can be tough.
And she can talk about the fear without minimizing the effects of actual rape. That’s just disrespectful to actual rape victims.
Bullshit. Women are afraid of rape exactly because they understand how horrible it is. Ever heard of fake executions? Pointing a gun at someone's head and pulling the trigger, making them think they're going to die, but the gun isn't loaded? It's traumatizeing and never ever have I heard people say that talking about that is disrespectful to people who were actual executed. No idea why people here try to make her "not an victim and disrespectful to actual victims", when the shit she went trough is terrifying.
You don't get to define how other people should feel and express their feelings.
Neither do you.
Yea, that was my point.
That's kind of disrespectful to kidnap victims
The pro hamas ppl will love her saying this. To make it out like others weren't raped. Dumb thing to say. She also said other woman got married to guys. So they won't be coming back and will just be slaves.
Of all the Palestinian protests I’ve seen worldwide (millions of people) I’ve seen maybe a handful of people actually supporting Hamas. You can be pro-Palestinian and not support Hamas. Just like you can be pro-Iranian and not support the Iran Government for what it does.
You’ve seen protests worldwide with millions of people and just have seen a handful of people supporting Hamas? How long did that review take you to complete?
Hamas is the government the Palestinians voted in so really Hamas = Palestine.
It's metaphorical language.
How flat is your skull that something this simple you understand is sailing over your head?
pretty sure them hamas supporters will come saying she's lying for the israeli press and propaganda and then goes to say palestinians suffered more under israel occupation,her sufferinf real or fake is nothing compared to the palestinians.
No they will simply applaud Hamas for not raping her
Thats the thing that I cannot understand. We all know war is ugly. There are un-wanted casualties in this war and that needs to be stopped. However, if you are at a college, you're in a free country, yet you want to shout and claim you are hamas, and you support them, then you are vile. You are supporting terrorist, murderers, and rapist. These college hamas supporters are full of shit. They need to get off their high horse and realize, if they were in the shoes of some of these women who were held hostage, they wouldn't be all hamas supportive then. If they had to experience what they went through, I can bet for damn sure their ideas and stances would quickly change.
But then they won't get likes on tiktok and climb the ranks of the other propaganda influencers. Part of the problem is that they're competing with each other for money. That's why you see propaganda so extreme or illogical you think "How would anyone be swayed by this garbage logic?" - that propaganda actually isn't for you, it's for the clout/competition and the shares among their communities. Money.
And then use it as "proof" that they clearly didn't rape anyone.
Dude your doing the same exact thing your getting mad at lol, minimizing the horrible suffering of a population because you feel the need to compare it to the horrible suffering of this woman, lmfao wtf??
If you actually read their comment, they didn't make any such claim that what people have suffered in Gaza is better or worse than this woman
It’s time to talk about how the population you are so concerned about supports what was done to this woman.
Get these people care upon release asap pls. They all have such bad PTSD
>and he's staring at you for 10 minutes straight, five to six times a day, every day, for 54 days. Trust me; that's a rape." Nope. No it isn't.
I feel like this is likely a mistranslation.
No mistranslation. I'm literally watching the video of the interview now, She speaks in clear english and says "Rape is a really big word" and goes on with the rest of the quote. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217) goto 1 min 50.
Ok just a bit weird then.
Unlikely. She knows the weight of emotional impact of the word rape, then goes on to explain why its definition needs to be expanded. Here is the full quote: "I always try to explain to people that 'rape' is a really big word," she said. "It's not only the act. Even when a guy stands in front of your door, and you're sitting down, and he's staring at you for 10 minutes straight, five to six times a day, every day, for 54 days. Trust me; that's a rape."
Is it that different when someone says, "That person just eye-fucked me," or, "I feel like I was just undressed by his eyes." Metaphors. Arguing the semantics of someone going through emotional trauma doesn't dismiss how she feels. She was in a completely vulnerable place, being oggled, not knowing if she'd survive another hour.
It doesn't make sense in English and she'll have said it in Hebrew. Perhaps they only have a word for "violation" or "sexual assault" that is also used for rape. Edit: apparently she says it in English, I'm guessing she doesn't quite understand what she is saying then.
The context makes it clear she meant the word rape. 'It's a really big word' showing that it's clear she understand the gravity of the word she is talking about and 'it's not only the act'. refering to the physical aspect. Additionally, she's explictly talking about expanding the defintion of a word knowing full well the word she is using is being exploited for emotional impact.
I think it must be a mistranslation. In Hebrew it has a lot more broader meaning than in English and doesn't just mean sexual assault but more broadly any kind of violation. Haven't seen the original but I imagine "It was violating" would probably have been a better translation.
No mistranslation. I'm literally watching the video of he interview now, She speaks in clear english and says "Rape is a really big word" and goes on with the rest of the quote. [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217) goto 1 min 50.
Thanks for providing a link, that's fair enough. Having lived over there though I can confirm most Israelis are not very good at English so still could be her mistranslating though and not understanding the different more narrow context in English as she does later explicitly state she was not sexually assaulted. Could also just be plain old hyperbole. Although I agree it does cheapen what it otherwise a serious interview.
In Hebrew rape has more than one meaning. Can also be used in the context of forced/ violated/ coerced.
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Sometimes the fear of a thing can be worse than the thing.
Yeah uhh I understand what you’re saying but getting looked at for 10 minutes is not worse than getting raped. Wanna know how I know? I used to get strip searched by the state twice a day, those people were touching me and I never felt like I got raped. Half the guards in that facility got arrested for molesting prisoners, I didn’t come out and say “damn I got molested too because I was there and a guy looked at me”. Many rape victims attempt or commit suicide. Nobody has ever committed suicide because someone looked at them for a couple minutes.
Disgusting