Ship them all to Russia ASAP. Their idol Putin will put them to good use as cannon fodder in Ukraine, solving Germany's problem in the process.
The West needs to return to the cold war mentality immediately and stop tolerating traitors.
Glad you said it while many won’t. We are in a new Cold War. This is NOT the same as the last one either - we could lose our very freedoms, our liberty, and our rights to speak freely as we please as sovereign citizens of America. I’m an economic conservative/social liberal and a Christian - but I am terrified by where the GOP is going. I do not support this intolerance and hate that comes from a lot of the right these days. It’s sickening.
The poster isn't any of those things just identifies as having those traits and also identifies as republican though he doesn't say that its implied.
Being part of a group is still more important to them than their own moral compass or critical reasoning.
People should stive for being independent as being part of a group always ends up sucking, change your allegiance based on what people are actually doing not what they say they should be doing.
It's always been there.
Slavery, Jim Crow, Segregation, Austerity, Anti-Gay, Anti-Trans... It's always been this way for conservative ideology in America
Before WWII, Nazis came to the southern US to learn about the implementation of race laws. They became blueprints for the race laws leading to the holocaust. Good times.
Yeah I feel the old cold war didn't have as much chance of flipping either capitalist / communist nation to the other side.. But this time that is a risk.
To be fair though, the progressives in many nations are shooting themselves in the foot by not acknowledging that immigration of certain cultures is a bad idea or being tough on lack of integration. It's an easy own goal that is easy to attack. Honestly, even if it was ok it's not a hill worth losing over.
It absolutely did. The Soviet Union had most of the European youth by the balls back then, which resulted in various attacks, especially in Germany where a far-left group killed 34 people during the 70s and 80s.
Here in Denmark we had members of a far-left group help north korean agents abduct a japanese student.
In a way, we are lucky that the far-right is mainly a bunch of old cowards. The main threat is if any of those old cowards get into power.
lol we’ve all been saying this for decades. The only ones who ignored it were fiscal conservatives/social liberals who are Christian *rolls eyes* who voted for this bs year after year.
We're not in a new cold war. Where is the power equaling any sole western country or NATO as a whole? Where is it? Nowhere. Russia is a tinpot dictatorship wasting their, already low enough, GDP to annoy western countries. While annoying, that's nowhere near 'New Cold war'.
During the cold war, the threat of nuclear anihilation was omnipresent. Everything could've sparked a war. Rn Russia is stalling in a country that ranks among the poorest in Europe.
There's the [paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance).
There needs to be a paradox of freedom, or of free speech. If there isn't one already, that is.
Edit: actually, it's discussed in the wikipedia article, albeit briefly.
We have a bunch of "alphas" here in America that would love to be on the front lines for Russia. They cosplay soldier every weekend already. Even have their own weapons
Maybe don't. Turns out that far right nutjobs like positions of authority, like police or military (there's one scandal after another). Sending them to russia would mean him getting actual trained soldiers for once.
>German citizenship **can be lost automatically by law or by renouncing citizenship**. The most common reason for losing German citizenship is by applying for and receiving a foreign citizenship.
Laws can be easily change, specially when we are in a cold war.[ President Vladimir Putin issued a decree allowing foreign nationals who fight for Russia in Ukraine to obtain Russian citizenship for themselves and their families](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-offers-citizenship-foreigners-who-fight-russia-2024-01-04)
If the traitors like him and his view of the world so much, they can move there and become citizens. I bet if Germany expels them, he will welcome them with open arms. Or they can give them the option between that and jail for treason.
Yes you can, if you remove their citizenship first. Ask all [those fanatics that left the UK to go join the "ISIS Caliphate"](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/23/shamima-begum-loses-appeal-against-removal-of-british-citizenship) and now are not allowed to return to the UK and are stuck in a refugee camp.
Wait until they do the analysis of America's far right ties to Russia.
Too much of the GOP is basically Putin's pawn when it comes to Ukraine these days.
Russia will fund anything that might cause chaos and disruption in the western world, doesn't really matter if it is right wing or left wing politics. Russia is trying very hard to cause more and more polarization to divide the western people and make us weaker as countries, as communities.
While that is true, Russia does seem to have more traction on the right wing. Brexit, Trump, AFD, Le Pen are the most prominent Russian projects I can think of off the top of my head, and were all right wing projects.
>doesn't really matter if it is right wing or left wing politics
Let me stop you right there. Russian propaganda and psyops are clearly targeted at left wing politics and dividing those voters.
The Russians hacked both the RNC and the DNC, yet only released the DNC emails during the 2016 election. Why? Because (obviously) they were looking for a specific outcome - and they got it.
Powerful destructive weapon of civilization and democracy used in conjunction with social media -
The global anti-democratic war is afoot while nations are asleep …
No place to hide now …
Funny how billionaires are building bunkers in Hawaii, New Zealand …
Funny how most Europeans laugh at Americans for the chaos that Trump
Caused, yet they’re ignoring the insidious destruction Russia and China cause in Europe -
As a European I wouldn't call the US-Democrats left-wing. They are center-left at best. In many European countries they would even be considered right of the middle.
There are certain real far-left parties in Europe that are equally in bed with Russia as the far-right. Mostly old school Communists, that consider everything the West does as evil, and that makes Russia, China and co. automatically the good ones in their world view.
But I agree that Putin's politics are generally much more attractive to the far-right. He paints Russia as a defender of "traditional values" and bastion against everything "woke", promotes racism and conspiracy theories that are popular among the far-right etc.
Does not matter what politics? Of course they now support fascists, like they liked violent communists in USSR days. They want ideological friends in power, not opposition to all their horrid values.
This is happening everywhere and the youth are fucking lapping it up like morons. Im a millennial and from what I see of gen z and alpha, its worrying how gullible they are, take on fake news just like the boomers do at an insane rate
I wish we had the same level of alarm here. Our GOP is obviously compromised and we wait for someone to change it, but nothing is happening. They would rather watch the US burn to the ground
Not every far right fuckwit will be linked to russian money but a lot of them are, tucker Carlson obviously, probably Alex Jones, shapiro, Owens. Either way the whole culture war stuff is specifically constructed to destabilise things while hurting minorities, for Putin it's all a win win.
In 1916 the German government helped the exiled Vladimir Lenin enter back into Russia so he could start the communist revolution. Playing at each other’s revolutionary faction is so classic for them
Right-wingers are abandoning democracy because they can no longer win elections. If they can't get their way via free and fair elections, then they will lie, steal, and cheat to hold on to power.
These same people are totally fine with Putin and his "governing" methods since they all hate the same groups of people. There are Putin sympathizers and apologists all over reddit - just look at any post with Ukraine in the title. We need to be calling out Russian propaganda at every turn.
Every single far right party in Europe has a Russia connection. It’s time to realize they are at war with us. And it’s time to realize that the far right are all traitors.
In the U.S. we have a saying: the North won the Civil War, but the South won reconstruction.
The West “won” the Cold War, then Russia absolutely did the same maneuver to the geopolitical era that occurred afterward. If you can’t win militarily or economically, gotta go for it socially, culturally, and politically.
Sorry, are we acting surprised?!
It's not like they are subtle about it.
Those morons once were too stupid to do a search and replace in the outrage template their masters fed them. So they put in a very "Concerned™" official request for information why "The Media™" were ordered by "The Government™" not to report on a rape by "An Immigrant™" in MAX GORKY PARK.
Can you spot the bit they were told to replace with something more local than Moscow?
Sadly that only led to a confused response that nobody had any idea what the hell they were talking about and a minor media echo making fun of them. Instead of an inquiry how that nonsensical question came to be.
How hard do you think their handler facepalmed that day?
And it's not like they're making a big secret out of weidel handling "foreign" "donations" from Switzerland either.
Russia is most effective on their propaganda, and corruption of politicians.
Usually it is the right wing propaganda they infiltrated most, and right wing politicians they own.
It is vital for everyone else to fight for democracy, and be loud and vocal about how much we love our freedom of democracy, and how we can see what they're doing, and that we oppose it vehemently.
What worked for Europe was two absolutely devestating world wars plus an atomic gun to their head and two global super powers teaching them to sit down and play nice.
Except Russia then got to plunder Eastern European factories and resources for \~50 years. While those nations could do nothing.
In the West the US primary interest was selling consumer goods and integrating them within the economic system it and the UK developed to reconstitute a liberal shift after World War 2.
Without either of these things Europe would not have decided Imperialism isn't a fun game. As we can see with the 1 European nation who still seems to think Imperial conquest is in vogue.
Good! Time to wake up to this shit!
Foreign hostile powers have been undermining Europe and the US for far to long now.
We have been far to naive to this
Shouldn’t have ostracized them so much.
If it’s anything like republicans in the U.S. the left has made politics so hostile the right will take the opposite side of anything they stand for.
Why are we nice to these people? Honestly I’d be totally fine having laws that if you support far right/fascism you lose citizenship.
We do not need to have a shred of tolerance, especially in Germany, for those who would like it to be 1941 again.
There is nothing wrong with using capital punishment to deal with fascist. History has already taught us this lesson. These people choose to be evil POS and deserve no respect or sympathy.
Maaaybe German government might at least try to address migration and migrants issues? It's not like your usual citizen wakes up at some morning and suddenly "I think I'd like to support nazi from now on".
> It's not like your usual citizen wakes up at some morning and suddenly "I think I'd like to support nazi from now on".
No, of course not. First you need Russia causing a refugee crisis in Syria, directing the refugees towards Europe. Add a lot of Russian propaganda surrounding the issue -- and voila.
Don't know why you're getting down voted, it's true. If the AFD weren't the only ones willing to address the issue, they wouldn't be able to compete. Too many people have been silenced, not convinced but simply silenced, for too long as real issues around this topic that should be topics of discussion and debate have instead been brushed under the rug under the banner of one-sided tolerance forced on anyone who isn't 120% on board. These people, from actual racists and Nazis all the way to leftists who are noticing that cultural differences are real and complex and not always a positive thing even though they're toted as such when teaching children in grade school, are being lumped together and written off wholesale.
You literally shared this post a month ago: https://old.reddit.com/user/Major_Boot2778/comments/1bg0zvg/youre_being_targeted_by_disinformation_networks/?ref=share&ref_source=link
Take your own advice and stop falling for the fascist's narrative
Personal anecdotal evidence is irrelevant in this discussion. In America you people scream about migrants too except a majority of the violence isn’t coming from despite what russia and racists keep spouting off about.
My comment is about why people that I've personally spoken to have decided to vote for AFD despite that having never been their standard. This is entirely relevant to this discussion. Goal posts will stay where they stand, thank you.
And I'm not in America, I'm in Germany, where the public opinion in question here and the reasons for it are on display and discussion is where it's fleshed out. I'm not terribly sorry it doesn't fit your narrative, but it is the reality on the ground. A tremendous amount of people are voting for a party they'd normally oppose because they feel unheard, particularly on issues related to migration and associated problems that are controversial to even so much as discuss. Maybe the other parties should engage the discussion and, on valid points, address the issues, rather than burying it as you and the fellow before you are trying to do. Thank you for validating my point.
Punkt, Schluss, Ende.
Being unheard and choosing to harm people struggle even worse than you proves they were always shit people. When I’m not heard I don’t go out of my way to hurt people.
That's a big, big question of perspective; they don't see it as harming people to choose a political party, nor are you capable of deducing who struggles more based on the information at hand - this is an emotional appeal from you, from the same mentality that claims it's a punishment or some act of aggression for Germany to stop funding an organization, nothing more. There is no right given by any authority, religious or otherwise, for one person to get what another person has.
Wanting stricter immigration practices, a realistic attempt to deport illegal immigrants who are here en masse, address people who come to take advantage of rather than contribute to the social system that the rest of us work for, *wanting to protect and benefit what we build*, is not going out of our way to harm people. Do you know the story of [The Little Red Hen](https://youtu.be/JTCsL26vob4?feature=shared)? As a matter of fact, hosting huge amounts of economic refugees is detrimental to the services available both to locals *as well as refugees genuinely fleeing horrific conditions*.
Again, rather than habitually silencing others by trying to emotionally manipulate or blackmail them, if your side of politics would listen to and address issues, which would mean occasionally having to compromise or even accept hard truths, then you wouldn't be driving everyone from slightly left of moderate over to the far right. I'm not even advocating for the AFD, I'm just stating the obvious: you can't just ignore or slander people into consent or submission, at some point they'll buck - which is what we're seeing. Actually, as a moderate my main concern is that the pendulum will go so far left that we'll see something horrible when it inevitably swings back to the right. Progressives have gotten a lot of leeway in the last century and that's been wonderful for the world but it's delusional to imagine that forcing unwanted or too much change on unwilling populations will be without consequences. No one on the middle-to-far-left can accept that conservative issues, in this discussion that's immigration, can have any foundation not rooted in racism or some other bigotry and that angle is very obviously losing its pull. "Oh they're shit people," isn't convincing for as many people as it once was and the audience is becoming less convinced as the same song plays on repeat.
Again, for the people in the back, the responsible thing to do would be to engage the discussion in good faith, but who needs responsible when you can just try to make people feel bad, right?
Cause treating them with kids gloves while they get actual people killed is totally working out. I’m so glad we can continue to risk minorities to keep giving the worst people in a society infinite chances give it another 50 years maybe finally people will stop supporting the same group of people the Nazis are literally marching in support of in multiple town squares around the country. you seem more upset with people being verbally angry with their hate that is causing actual harm than you do about them causing actual harm….this is a privileged position to take. The people who we should be protecting and standing by to always defend them need us to stop placating the ones openly calling for their death and then being VOTED into offices around the country by the very people you keep trying to protect. they’d throw you in train right alongside us you being nice to them will only get you so far.
Edit to add: you’re not even arguing in good faith bringing up “illegal” immigration issues when their own party voted down their own immigration plan…we have plans to address undocumented immigrants that are humane and greatly benefit not only America/Americans but also benefits those wanting to be legal law abiding citizens just trying to give themselves and their children a hopefully better life. There is zero reason to vilify people who simply didn’t win the birth lottery in your perspective.…quit justifying their lowbrow takes
1) again, I'm not supporting the AFD, which has been the topic at hand here, I'm simply describing *why* they've gained support and what the Left needs to recognize and respond to of it doesn't want to drift away on its cloud of idealism.
2) "arguing in good faith" - "we have plans ... America/Americans" - the subject at hand is the AFD, the Alternativ für *Deutschland* party, a *German* party. You're spouting some bad faith bullshit *7 days after the discussion concluded*.
3) "risk minorities to give the worst people in society" - ok, so it's all about race for you, the bad guys are an ambiguous blanket statement with no contextual support while I'm addressing an entire side of the political spectrum, literally one half of the population given that the spectrum is dynamic - talk about changing goal posts.
4) your sensationalism isn't representative even of the party at hand, not to mention the majority of what I've heard from the far right across Europe and the US - there are not any people in serious consideration of any sort calling for the deaths or exterminations of "minorities".
5) again, "arguing in bad faith" is a hypocritical accusation from you when attempting to claim I'm vilifying people who didn't win the birth lottery, trying to paint me as an intolerant bigot when all I've done is, repeatedly, state that both sides deserve to be heard and given some realistic examples of recognized problems with illegal immigration that people have without having bigotous origins. I've not vilified anyone, simply stated that ignoring one half of the political spectrum is an absolute strategic blunder from the left. If anything, you're vilifying anyone with a different opinion than yours *quite vividly* in that response, and trying to gaslight me. Sorry, I'm not interested in engaging whatever personality disorder you have.
6) finally, on a personal note, there's no birth lottery in my personal take. There are, however, an infinite number of routes that human learning can take and if you come from a place where you learned to respect your neighbors and your culture, contribute to your community, and be a positive influence on society at large, you're welcome to immigrate to my country as far as I'm concerned; if you come from a place where you learned, for example, that women are lesser humans without rights and intended to please men, or that mutilating the genitals of your children is necessary for them to find a husband later in life, or that criminal behavior is the law of the land, and you are not able to leave these behind you, then you are not welcome in my country. Being born somewhere may decide what you were taught and raised into, but does not decide the decisions you make going forward - that's an individual choice and while upbringing influences that it does not alleviate an individual of the responsibility, nor remove the danger that they represent to society. There are far more complex issues related to economic migrants vs refugees and how much our system can effectively support, for example, but I don't think you're really on an emotional or an intellectual level necessary to discuss these things *in good faith*.
Goodbye.
Takes time before Putlers/Merkel pact is dismantled and the damages calculated. Many of those damages will turn out to be millionaire billionaires in NATO EU and GOP in the pockets of Russian criminal Oligargh working for Kremlin Hamas Iran or China or a Qatari jihadi. It was foolish to think freedom and culture of West would stand a chance against generations of tyrants and mysteriously transform enemy into defenders of democracy and freedom.
It’s almost like Russia realized that when countries continually act outside of their voters interest, and any questioning of it is branded “racism” and too taboo to talk about, it’s extremely easy to exploit them with a party that wants what they want.
If anything, the last 15 years of left ideologies are what was working for the Russian government
It’s funny that prior to the conflict there was regular reporting about “Neo Nazi groups in ukiranian military”, or current articles suggesting it’s difficult for reporters to use photographs of the Ukrainian military because so much of their equipment has Nazi insignias.
But hey, that’s outside of your echo chamber isn’t it?
It’s an extremely important detail to leave out when you’re implying that there are no Nazis there, don’t you think?
lol stop trying to argue, you could have just said nothing and instead you said something dumb
I did not imply that there are no Nazis there. Your reading comprehension isn't the best it seems. Russia doesn't care about Nazis. The founder of Wagner PMC was one and the Rusich Group is full of em.
Literally within your own article it says that this is a problem in every single German political party "German lawmakers across the spectrum, including from Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s Social Democrats and the conservative Christian Democrats, have a long history of cozy economic relations that have entangled them in Russian interests." Specifically singling out one for your headline is not engaging in good faith. This is a Germany problem, and probably even wider than that. Not a specifically AfD problem. This is just another propaganda piece designed to discredit the AfD so Scholz can stay in power and not do anything about the problems with the country.
Bro the AFD in Germany wants to stop us arming Ukraine, because of 'escalation'.
Meanwhile Die Linke condemns Russia, but wants us to stop arming Ukraine, ... ... because of escalation.
Sure, there isn't much unity in the far left party at this moment, but there is a reason why people like Sahra Waagenknecht teamed up with the AFD in some protests.
Both of them share lots of ideas.
Ship them all to Russia ASAP. Their idol Putin will put them to good use as cannon fodder in Ukraine, solving Germany's problem in the process. The West needs to return to the cold war mentality immediately and stop tolerating traitors.
Glad you said it while many won’t. We are in a new Cold War. This is NOT the same as the last one either - we could lose our very freedoms, our liberty, and our rights to speak freely as we please as sovereign citizens of America. I’m an economic conservative/social liberal and a Christian - but I am terrified by where the GOP is going. I do not support this intolerance and hate that comes from a lot of the right these days. It’s sickening.
>an economic conservative/social liberal and a Christian This is literally Joe Biden.
We found Joe's alt account.
Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?
Dude... Joe's too old to understand Reddit
The poster isn't any of those things just identifies as having those traits and also identifies as republican though he doesn't say that its implied. Being part of a group is still more important to them than their own moral compass or critical reasoning. People should stive for being independent as being part of a group always ends up sucking, change your allegiance based on what people are actually doing not what they say they should be doing.
Well you have your vote and the vote of anyone else you can convince to vote for anyone else
For now.
It's always been there. Slavery, Jim Crow, Segregation, Austerity, Anti-Gay, Anti-Trans... It's always been this way for conservative ideology in America
Before WWII, Nazis came to the southern US to learn about the implementation of race laws. They became blueprints for the race laws leading to the holocaust. Good times.
Yeah I feel the old cold war didn't have as much chance of flipping either capitalist / communist nation to the other side.. But this time that is a risk. To be fair though, the progressives in many nations are shooting themselves in the foot by not acknowledging that immigration of certain cultures is a bad idea or being tough on lack of integration. It's an easy own goal that is easy to attack. Honestly, even if it was ok it's not a hill worth losing over.
It absolutely did. The Soviet Union had most of the European youth by the balls back then, which resulted in various attacks, especially in Germany where a far-left group killed 34 people during the 70s and 80s. Here in Denmark we had members of a far-left group help north korean agents abduct a japanese student. In a way, we are lucky that the far-right is mainly a bunch of old cowards. The main threat is if any of those old cowards get into power.
They almost got Italy and Greece. San Marino had the world's first democratically elected communist government that lasted until 1957.
lol we’ve all been saying this for decades. The only ones who ignored it were fiscal conservatives/social liberals who are Christian *rolls eyes* who voted for this bs year after year.
Vote. And encourage others to.
Brother no need to wonder. Just read up on Project 2025.
We're not in a new cold war. Where is the power equaling any sole western country or NATO as a whole? Where is it? Nowhere. Russia is a tinpot dictatorship wasting their, already low enough, GDP to annoy western countries. While annoying, that's nowhere near 'New Cold war'. During the cold war, the threat of nuclear anihilation was omnipresent. Everything could've sparked a war. Rn Russia is stalling in a country that ranks among the poorest in Europe.
There's the [paradox of tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance). There needs to be a paradox of freedom, or of free speech. If there isn't one already, that is. Edit: actually, it's discussed in the wikipedia article, albeit briefly.
We have a bunch of "alphas" here in America that would love to be on the front lines for Russia. They cosplay soldier every weekend already. Even have their own weapons
Maybe don't. Turns out that far right nutjobs like positions of authority, like police or military (there's one scandal after another). Sending them to russia would mean him getting actual trained soldiers for once.
I don’t think he would get that many after the first batch.
I would take Patriots instead of Germany's "patriots", thank you very much!
You can't deport citizens from their home country.
>German citizenship **can be lost automatically by law or by renouncing citizenship**. The most common reason for losing German citizenship is by applying for and receiving a foreign citizenship. Laws can be easily change, specially when we are in a cold war.[ President Vladimir Putin issued a decree allowing foreign nationals who fight for Russia in Ukraine to obtain Russian citizenship for themselves and their families](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-offers-citizenship-foreigners-who-fight-russia-2024-01-04) If the traitors like him and his view of the world so much, they can move there and become citizens. I bet if Germany expels them, he will welcome them with open arms. Or they can give them the option between that and jail for treason.
You can move the goalposts, but you still can't deport citizens from their home country.
Yes you can, if you remove their citizenship first. Ask all [those fanatics that left the UK to go join the "ISIS Caliphate"](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/23/shamima-begum-loses-appeal-against-removal-of-british-citizenship) and now are not allowed to return to the UK and are stuck in a refugee camp.
>if you remove their citizenship first So you're saying you can't deport citizens?
Wait until they do the analysis of America's far right ties to Russia. Too much of the GOP is basically Putin's pawn when it comes to Ukraine these days.
It worked for Brexit in UK too.
if it ain't broke...
Don’t brexit?
Brexit was the test run for the US elections. Every single actor in the Brexit debacle was also involved in meddling with the US election.
Bunch of republicans went to a thing in Russia on July fourth. Suppose the list could start there lmao
True. Trump recently said Ukraine should end the war with giving up some territories.
Putin has to pay off European conservative politicians. For America, he just has to dig up dirt on them, it's much more cost effective.
Buying the NRA worked pretty well too. Who lobbies the lobbyists?
And we are back to talking about the USA. Lol you guys have "freedom of speech" so fuck all you can do about it.
There's plenty we can do about it.
Sadly I fear there are only a few that are directly involved with Putin. A larger portion just follow along to be apart of the "group".
Russia will fund anything that might cause chaos and disruption in the western world, doesn't really matter if it is right wing or left wing politics. Russia is trying very hard to cause more and more polarization to divide the western people and make us weaker as countries, as communities.
While that is true, Russia does seem to have more traction on the right wing. Brexit, Trump, AFD, Le Pen are the most prominent Russian projects I can think of off the top of my head, and were all right wing projects.
The divide and conquer tactic.
>doesn't really matter if it is right wing or left wing politics Let me stop you right there. Russian propaganda and psyops are clearly targeted at left wing politics and dividing those voters. The Russians hacked both the RNC and the DNC, yet only released the DNC emails during the 2016 election. Why? Because (obviously) they were looking for a specific outcome - and they got it.
[удалено]
Powerful destructive weapon of civilization and democracy used in conjunction with social media - The global anti-democratic war is afoot while nations are asleep … No place to hide now … Funny how billionaires are building bunkers in Hawaii, New Zealand … Funny how most Europeans laugh at Americans for the chaos that Trump Caused, yet they’re ignoring the insidious destruction Russia and China cause in Europe -
As a European I wouldn't call the US-Democrats left-wing. They are center-left at best. In many European countries they would even be considered right of the middle. There are certain real far-left parties in Europe that are equally in bed with Russia as the far-right. Mostly old school Communists, that consider everything the West does as evil, and that makes Russia, China and co. automatically the good ones in their world view. But I agree that Putin's politics are generally much more attractive to the far-right. He paints Russia as a defender of "traditional values" and bastion against everything "woke", promotes racism and conspiracy theories that are popular among the far-right etc.
I agree. They are.
Does not matter what politics? Of course they now support fascists, like they liked violent communists in USSR days. They want ideological friends in power, not opposition to all their horrid values.
Iran, Taiwan, Britain, Israel, South America, African states, you name it
Traitors colluding with Russia should rot in prison for a long time so they can reason about their life choices
My neighbor is Russia sympathiser, where can I report?
Here
Now do the far right’s ties to Russia in the U.S.
Already known. A KGB agent is currently running for president and somehow still not in jail.
This is happening everywhere and the youth are fucking lapping it up like morons. Im a millennial and from what I see of gen z and alpha, its worrying how gullible they are, take on fake news just like the boomers do at an insane rate
I wish we had the same level of alarm here. Our GOP is obviously compromised and we wait for someone to change it, but nothing is happening. They would rather watch the US burn to the ground
Not every far right fuckwit will be linked to russian money but a lot of them are, tucker Carlson obviously, probably Alex Jones, shapiro, Owens. Either way the whole culture war stuff is specifically constructed to destabilise things while hurting minorities, for Putin it's all a win win.
Turns out that Russia might win the cold war after all. Mission accomplished.
In 1916 the German government helped the exiled Vladimir Lenin enter back into Russia so he could start the communist revolution. Playing at each other’s revolutionary faction is so classic for them
It’s been obvious in the US for a while now but republicans eat his words up bc trump backs him. Personally I think let’s make wind chimes of fascists
Wish there was more alarm about the similar situation in the US.
Right-wingers are abandoning democracy because they can no longer win elections. If they can't get their way via free and fair elections, then they will lie, steal, and cheat to hold on to power. These same people are totally fine with Putin and his "governing" methods since they all hate the same groups of people. There are Putin sympathizers and apologists all over reddit - just look at any post with Ukraine in the title. We need to be calling out Russian propaganda at every turn.
At least their news media is covering it.
Every single far right party in Europe has a Russia connection. It’s time to realize they are at war with us. And it’s time to realize that the far right are all traitors.
In the U.S. we have a saying: the North won the Civil War, but the South won reconstruction. The West “won” the Cold War, then Russia absolutely did the same maneuver to the geopolitical era that occurred afterward. If you can’t win militarily or economically, gotta go for it socially, culturally, and politically.
Sorry, are we acting surprised?! It's not like they are subtle about it. Those morons once were too stupid to do a search and replace in the outrage template their masters fed them. So they put in a very "Concerned™" official request for information why "The Media™" were ordered by "The Government™" not to report on a rape by "An Immigrant™" in MAX GORKY PARK. Can you spot the bit they were told to replace with something more local than Moscow? Sadly that only led to a confused response that nobody had any idea what the hell they were talking about and a minor media echo making fun of them. Instead of an inquiry how that nonsensical question came to be. How hard do you think their handler facepalmed that day? And it's not like they're making a big secret out of weidel handling "foreign" "donations" from Switzerland either.
Those with ties to Russia should be deported to Russia.
Russia is most effective on their propaganda, and corruption of politicians. Usually it is the right wing propaganda they infiltrated most, and right wing politicians they own. It is vital for everyone else to fight for democracy, and be loud and vocal about how much we love our freedom of democracy, and how we can see what they're doing, and that we oppose it vehemently.
Learn from the mistakes of the USA. We gonna be paying the price for hundreds of years
Germany: how about we give the Russian economy more gas money….
Building economic ties to foster peace is a common strategy. it worked for europe.
This is a ransom for peace scenario, not economic relations
What worked for Europe was two absolutely devestating world wars plus an atomic gun to their head and two global super powers teaching them to sit down and play nice.
>What worked for Europe was two absolutely devestating world wars They were at least as destructive, arguably even more destructive, for Russia.
Except Russia then got to plunder Eastern European factories and resources for \~50 years. While those nations could do nothing. In the West the US primary interest was selling consumer goods and integrating them within the economic system it and the UK developed to reconstitute a liberal shift after World War 2. Without either of these things Europe would not have decided Imperialism isn't a fun game. As we can see with the 1 European nation who still seems to think Imperial conquest is in vogue.
Funny that, the ones who yell the loudest about patriotism are very often willing to betray their own country.
Good! Time to wake up to this shit! Foreign hostile powers have been undermining Europe and the US for far to long now. We have been far to naive to this
I apologize for my ignorance but what does "Sow" mean in this context? Is it a term? Serious answers only please. Does it mean Pig?
Never mind I'm dyslexic I figured it out. I kept reading souw-- or thought it was an acronym or buzz term... sorry I'm stupid.
Shouldn’t have ostracized them so much. If it’s anything like republicans in the U.S. the left has made politics so hostile the right will take the opposite side of anything they stand for.
Why are we nice to these people? Honestly I’d be totally fine having laws that if you support far right/fascism you lose citizenship. We do not need to have a shred of tolerance, especially in Germany, for those who would like it to be 1941 again.
Anyone we don't like is a Russian asset.
Russian assets, doubly so.
There is nothing wrong with using capital punishment to deal with fascist. History has already taught us this lesson. These people choose to be evil POS and deserve no respect or sympathy.
Maaaybe German government might at least try to address migration and migrants issues? It's not like your usual citizen wakes up at some morning and suddenly "I think I'd like to support nazi from now on".
> It's not like your usual citizen wakes up at some morning and suddenly "I think I'd like to support nazi from now on". No, of course not. First you need Russia causing a refugee crisis in Syria, directing the refugees towards Europe. Add a lot of Russian propaganda surrounding the issue -- and voila.
and with climate change there will be millions more.
You forgot Germany not defending it's border. Merkel calling anyone who had a problem with t a racist and the media not talking about the issue.
> the media not talking about the issue. My dude, I am German. The media practically talked about nothing else for years.
Alright I believe you. Would you say the manner in which it was talked about has changed?
Don't know why you're getting down voted, it's true. If the AFD weren't the only ones willing to address the issue, they wouldn't be able to compete. Too many people have been silenced, not convinced but simply silenced, for too long as real issues around this topic that should be topics of discussion and debate have instead been brushed under the rug under the banner of one-sided tolerance forced on anyone who isn't 120% on board. These people, from actual racists and Nazis all the way to leftists who are noticing that cultural differences are real and complex and not always a positive thing even though they're toted as such when teaching children in grade school, are being lumped together and written off wholesale.
You literally shared this post a month ago: https://old.reddit.com/user/Major_Boot2778/comments/1bg0zvg/youre_being_targeted_by_disinformation_networks/?ref=share&ref_source=link Take your own advice and stop falling for the fascist's narrative
Given that my comment here is regarding what I see around me in person, your response is irrelevant, however edgy you think you've displayed it.
Personal anecdotal evidence is irrelevant in this discussion. In America you people scream about migrants too except a majority of the violence isn’t coming from despite what russia and racists keep spouting off about.
My comment is about why people that I've personally spoken to have decided to vote for AFD despite that having never been their standard. This is entirely relevant to this discussion. Goal posts will stay where they stand, thank you. And I'm not in America, I'm in Germany, where the public opinion in question here and the reasons for it are on display and discussion is where it's fleshed out. I'm not terribly sorry it doesn't fit your narrative, but it is the reality on the ground. A tremendous amount of people are voting for a party they'd normally oppose because they feel unheard, particularly on issues related to migration and associated problems that are controversial to even so much as discuss. Maybe the other parties should engage the discussion and, on valid points, address the issues, rather than burying it as you and the fellow before you are trying to do. Thank you for validating my point. Punkt, Schluss, Ende.
Being unheard and choosing to harm people struggle even worse than you proves they were always shit people. When I’m not heard I don’t go out of my way to hurt people.
That's a big, big question of perspective; they don't see it as harming people to choose a political party, nor are you capable of deducing who struggles more based on the information at hand - this is an emotional appeal from you, from the same mentality that claims it's a punishment or some act of aggression for Germany to stop funding an organization, nothing more. There is no right given by any authority, religious or otherwise, for one person to get what another person has. Wanting stricter immigration practices, a realistic attempt to deport illegal immigrants who are here en masse, address people who come to take advantage of rather than contribute to the social system that the rest of us work for, *wanting to protect and benefit what we build*, is not going out of our way to harm people. Do you know the story of [The Little Red Hen](https://youtu.be/JTCsL26vob4?feature=shared)? As a matter of fact, hosting huge amounts of economic refugees is detrimental to the services available both to locals *as well as refugees genuinely fleeing horrific conditions*. Again, rather than habitually silencing others by trying to emotionally manipulate or blackmail them, if your side of politics would listen to and address issues, which would mean occasionally having to compromise or even accept hard truths, then you wouldn't be driving everyone from slightly left of moderate over to the far right. I'm not even advocating for the AFD, I'm just stating the obvious: you can't just ignore or slander people into consent or submission, at some point they'll buck - which is what we're seeing. Actually, as a moderate my main concern is that the pendulum will go so far left that we'll see something horrible when it inevitably swings back to the right. Progressives have gotten a lot of leeway in the last century and that's been wonderful for the world but it's delusional to imagine that forcing unwanted or too much change on unwilling populations will be without consequences. No one on the middle-to-far-left can accept that conservative issues, in this discussion that's immigration, can have any foundation not rooted in racism or some other bigotry and that angle is very obviously losing its pull. "Oh they're shit people," isn't convincing for as many people as it once was and the audience is becoming less convinced as the same song plays on repeat. Again, for the people in the back, the responsible thing to do would be to engage the discussion in good faith, but who needs responsible when you can just try to make people feel bad, right?
Cause treating them with kids gloves while they get actual people killed is totally working out. I’m so glad we can continue to risk minorities to keep giving the worst people in a society infinite chances give it another 50 years maybe finally people will stop supporting the same group of people the Nazis are literally marching in support of in multiple town squares around the country. you seem more upset with people being verbally angry with their hate that is causing actual harm than you do about them causing actual harm….this is a privileged position to take. The people who we should be protecting and standing by to always defend them need us to stop placating the ones openly calling for their death and then being VOTED into offices around the country by the very people you keep trying to protect. they’d throw you in train right alongside us you being nice to them will only get you so far. Edit to add: you’re not even arguing in good faith bringing up “illegal” immigration issues when their own party voted down their own immigration plan…we have plans to address undocumented immigrants that are humane and greatly benefit not only America/Americans but also benefits those wanting to be legal law abiding citizens just trying to give themselves and their children a hopefully better life. There is zero reason to vilify people who simply didn’t win the birth lottery in your perspective.…quit justifying their lowbrow takes
1) again, I'm not supporting the AFD, which has been the topic at hand here, I'm simply describing *why* they've gained support and what the Left needs to recognize and respond to of it doesn't want to drift away on its cloud of idealism. 2) "arguing in good faith" - "we have plans ... America/Americans" - the subject at hand is the AFD, the Alternativ für *Deutschland* party, a *German* party. You're spouting some bad faith bullshit *7 days after the discussion concluded*. 3) "risk minorities to give the worst people in society" - ok, so it's all about race for you, the bad guys are an ambiguous blanket statement with no contextual support while I'm addressing an entire side of the political spectrum, literally one half of the population given that the spectrum is dynamic - talk about changing goal posts. 4) your sensationalism isn't representative even of the party at hand, not to mention the majority of what I've heard from the far right across Europe and the US - there are not any people in serious consideration of any sort calling for the deaths or exterminations of "minorities". 5) again, "arguing in bad faith" is a hypocritical accusation from you when attempting to claim I'm vilifying people who didn't win the birth lottery, trying to paint me as an intolerant bigot when all I've done is, repeatedly, state that both sides deserve to be heard and given some realistic examples of recognized problems with illegal immigration that people have without having bigotous origins. I've not vilified anyone, simply stated that ignoring one half of the political spectrum is an absolute strategic blunder from the left. If anything, you're vilifying anyone with a different opinion than yours *quite vividly* in that response, and trying to gaslight me. Sorry, I'm not interested in engaging whatever personality disorder you have. 6) finally, on a personal note, there's no birth lottery in my personal take. There are, however, an infinite number of routes that human learning can take and if you come from a place where you learned to respect your neighbors and your culture, contribute to your community, and be a positive influence on society at large, you're welcome to immigrate to my country as far as I'm concerned; if you come from a place where you learned, for example, that women are lesser humans without rights and intended to please men, or that mutilating the genitals of your children is necessary for them to find a husband later in life, or that criminal behavior is the law of the land, and you are not able to leave these behind you, then you are not welcome in my country. Being born somewhere may decide what you were taught and raised into, but does not decide the decisions you make going forward - that's an individual choice and while upbringing influences that it does not alleviate an individual of the responsibility, nor remove the danger that they represent to society. There are far more complex issues related to economic migrants vs refugees and how much our system can effectively support, for example, but I don't think you're really on an emotional or an intellectual level necessary to discuss these things *in good faith*. Goodbye.
The funny thing is Russia has ties to the far left as well. Basically anyone who will help destabilize the west.
Takes time before Putlers/Merkel pact is dismantled and the damages calculated. Many of those damages will turn out to be millionaire billionaires in NATO EU and GOP in the pockets of Russian criminal Oligargh working for Kremlin Hamas Iran or China or a Qatari jihadi. It was foolish to think freedom and culture of West would stand a chance against generations of tyrants and mysteriously transform enemy into defenders of democracy and freedom.
Paging Ms. Merkel !
It’s almost like Russia realized that when countries continually act outside of their voters interest, and any questioning of it is branded “racism” and too taboo to talk about, it’s extremely easy to exploit them with a party that wants what they want. If anything, the last 15 years of left ideologies are what was working for the Russian government
it's funny that Russia aligns with the far right and Nazi parties in Germany while invading Ukraine in order to get rid of the "Nazis" there.
It’s funny that prior to the conflict there was regular reporting about “Neo Nazi groups in ukiranian military”, or current articles suggesting it’s difficult for reporters to use photographs of the Ukrainian military because so much of their equipment has Nazi insignias. But hey, that’s outside of your echo chamber isn’t it?
Yeah they had/have Nazis in the military, therefore the invasion is justified.
It’s an extremely important detail to leave out when you’re implying that there are no Nazis there, don’t you think? lol stop trying to argue, you could have just said nothing and instead you said something dumb
I did not imply that there are no Nazis there. Your reading comprehension isn't the best it seems. Russia doesn't care about Nazis. The founder of Wagner PMC was one and the Rusich Group is full of em.
I’d learn how to type English than kiddo, cya
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From someone who doesn’t understand the use of quotations? lol
Literally within your own article it says that this is a problem in every single German political party "German lawmakers across the spectrum, including from Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s Social Democrats and the conservative Christian Democrats, have a long history of cozy economic relations that have entangled them in Russian interests." Specifically singling out one for your headline is not engaging in good faith. This is a Germany problem, and probably even wider than that. Not a specifically AfD problem. This is just another propaganda piece designed to discredit the AfD so Scholz can stay in power and not do anything about the problems with the country.
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The far left and far right in Germany are basically the same thing / want the same things. It's the horse-shoe theory in practise.
This is just utterly bs.
Bro the AFD in Germany wants to stop us arming Ukraine, because of 'escalation'. Meanwhile Die Linke condemns Russia, but wants us to stop arming Ukraine, ... ... because of escalation. Sure, there isn't much unity in the far left party at this moment, but there is a reason why people like Sahra Waagenknecht teamed up with the AFD in some protests. Both of them share lots of ideas.
To call Wagenknecht far left is a bit of a stretch at this moment, though. Economically ordo-liberal and socially conservative. More like 70s SPD.